Actually, while we're on the subject, does anyone know if there =IS= a PS2 equivalent? 'Cos I know someone who might be interested.
As far as I know, there isn't, unless you install Linux on it.
I once suggested to SCEA that they do an "educational tool and homework helper disk" for the PS2. It might really be useful for one PC families. Slap a basic word processor (something akin to Wordpad or the old GeoWrite), a web browser good enough for wikipedia (perhaps based on Dillo code), maybe a typing tutor and a calculator.
It'd be easier with a PS3, it has a built in web browser, and it's easier to install Linux on it.
As such, she was really a boy, and he had a tumor on one of his testicles.
I understand it's just a TV show, but no, she was really a girl, who identified as a girl, who was genetically XY, and SHE had a tumor on one of HER testicles. When referring to transgendered and/or intersexed people it's best to use the pronouns of the gender they identify as.
They do? I like shoes! I played with dolls! I know my MAC foundation #. Yay, I'm a real man...and I should touch up my eyebrows with my Tweezerman. Ha that's funny, one of the most popular/highly regarded brands of tweezers used by women are called "Tweezerman"
All kidding aside, I really am transgendered...and a touch intersexed though I don't identify as intersexed.
Sometimes it seems that Transgendered folks and Linux go together like peanut butter and jelly. There are Linux users in practically every online trans-community I've visited, whether USENET, IRC or message boards.
I hate watered-down yearly releases on consoles that could pass as expansions.
That's more of a problem with sports games, other games tend to be more "improved version of the previous game's engine that improves what we did well and takes out what didn't work so well". I think that's part of a philosophical difference between us I think. I don't mind a game that's what I liked before, somewhat improved, as long as it comes out quickly. If it doesn't come out quickly, I expect more improvements. For example the SOCOM games are "small evolutionary changes over time" on a mostly yearly basis, while Dark Cloud 2 (which came out in 2003) is a great improvement over Dark Cloud 1 (which came out in 2001) Console dev houses tend to have more people working on games than traditional PC game houses, that's one of the reasons their output is so high.
I modded the hell out of Oblivion, and made the game a much more enjoyable experience than the half-broken one out of the box.
Oblivion (GOTY edition) was the first game I bought for my PS3. Here's what I don't get. I constantly read PC gamers saying Oblivion was half-broken and only worth playing if heavily modded, and I don't get it. The game's fine. There's a few minor annoyances, like the leveling system, but that's not that bad and can be dealt with by adjusting difficulty. There's some UI issues, like the large font that's just a little too large on 720P (small fonts can have readability issues on 480i, see the PS1 port of Darkstone for an example), and I wish there was a "fast page down" option in the inventory and spell screens like Final Fantasy games have but that's not really enough to call the entire game "broken". The game is also HUGE as it is, I've got over 105 hours into it already, and I want to complete as much of it as possible in a reasonable timespan. It doesn't matter that I don't have Mehrunes Dagger or the Horse Armor, or the Orrery, there's plenty of stuff in there already and when I'm done, there's more games.
All in all, PC games are for PC people who don't mind tinkering with their hardware and their games. It's a much more involving experience, and for people who like to be more involved with their gaming.
Hmm, that may be another difference, I like the feel of "finishing" a game, the payoff. An endless game (with mods or whatever) delays that payoff, and my gaming time is finite. Time spent on the technical side of playing games (tweaking drivers and settings, downloading mods, making certain everything works together) would be time NOT spent actually playing the games. Which means that even if I like some PC type games, I'll prefer the console port.
The open-source platform allows people to *snickers* buy hentai games from their local FYE, or dismantle and tweak aspects of a game that they dislike or want changed, and add multitudes of user-created mods.
I like Nethack, it's one of the few PC games I play, though I actually play it on my PS3 (and played it on my PS2 before the PS3) I've installed a few patches in it. I just like a good dungeon crawl being an old tabletop D&D player. One of the reasons I like a good console Diablo clone and games like Azure Dreams or Dark Chronicle is the touches of roguelike ancestry I see in them.
but the fact is you take a console and start hooking a mouse and keyboard to it... That's starting to look a lot like a computer,
They are computers, special purpose ones, though these days they can also do more general purpose things. I have Linux on my PS3, for example.
so why not just USE a computer instead if you have to use those for a decent experience?
But you don't HAVE to use those, but you can if you want (and if the developer gives you the option). Personally, I like mouse aiming in a PC to Console FPS port, but I can't stand WASD. So If I can, I use the mouse to aim, but the dual shock to move. It sounds awkward but works very well for me.
You also have to remember that there's more game genre's than FPS. and in most cases a dual analog joystick works adequately for those genres (and works "okay" in FPS's)
Let's take one of my favorite PC to console ports, the PS1 version of Diablo. It's a pre dual shock game, You can enable "Advanced" combo button controls, in that case holding R2 and hitting the "shape" buttons and the other shoulder buttons does different things, let me double check my manual so I get em right:
D-Pad = movement Select = In game menu Start = Pause X = Attack Square = Activate item/pick up item Triangle = Cast active spell Circle = use selected belt item L1 = Quick Health R1 = Quick Mana L2 = Speed Spellbook R2 = Combo button R2 + Square = Inventory R2 + X = Character info R2 + Triangle = Toggle spell between the two enabled spells R2 + R1 = Quest Log R2 + L1 = Full Spell book R2 + L2 = View Automap
Those controls are VERY fast to use, the game plays much much faster in the PS1 version than the PC version. The controls are also very comfortable for longer periods of time compared to the PC version which is VERY tough on the wrist and fingers. In other words, Diablo makes a better console game (for single player at least) than a PC game. It's all about the overall experience
I have met my fair share of Linux admins who couldn't do diddly without X being installed and couldn't install a program from source.
I may be a bit naive here, but I find that a bit hard to believe, considering all the users (who claim to be admins) on slashdot or various bloggers and forum posters who claim to live in the linux console, extol the virtues of GNU screen and live in vi or emacs. I'm a "Desktop" Linux user, I don't code, I can't program my way out of a paper bag and even I know how to compile source. My first source compile was back in 2002, it was either Gaim.58 or AbiWord.99, so I'm a relative newbie to Linux.
Likewise, Linux is intermixed in history. It's fun to poke at those who so badly want Linux to be a run-away success story of disruptive technology (akin to the microcomputer). But the meme is nonsense. Our tech history has never worked that way. It just seems like it does to those who one day wake up to a whole new world that appears to spring up around them like technical mushrooms.
Ahhh, very insightful. So you think that the "Year of Linux on the Desktop" will arrive in bits and pieces. Like having a distro that the less technical folks can install without out being a Minix guru, which leads into someone porting X11/Motif/Athena and all the other stuff, which leads into graphical window managers, which leads to desktop environments, which leads to software that you don't have to be a command line jockey to use, which will eventually lead to "Linux distros for the masses, not just for those who've taken programming classes."
That makes sense, I came to Linux via the PS2. I had read many stories about this "Linux thing" on Slashdot and bought a PS2 Linux kit to find out what it was all about. At that time I was a WebTV user, and it also turned by PS2 into a nifty little "computer" that was far more capable than that WebTV was. Got Linux on my PS3 now, still using Linux as a "Desktop", works pretty well for my desktop needs.
You're essentially saying its not in the interest of a developer to make good games with any longevity.
It's in their interest to sell you games as often as they can, but that's not exclusive with longevity. It depends on how you define longevity, isn't a year of gameplay enough? What if instead of selling you a game every 6 years, they could sell you one every year or so. What if Diablo III had come out in 2002, and then IV in 2004, and V in 2006 and VI in 2008.
Loyalty to Blizzard is fine, but there comes a time when Bliz fans should tell Blizzard to get off their duffs and start working harder and actually release games in a decent timespan, like they did in their console days. You shouldn't have to had wait 10 years for Bliz to do a Starcraft sequel. Any console dev house worth their salt that had a well regarded hit like that would have the sequel out in 2 years, for their fans. They'd do whatever it took.
Sure, mods are nice are probably nice for those PC games that don't get a sequel in a decent timespan But I've always been of the opinion that it shouldn't take 6 years to do a sequel, it should only take 1 or 2. Maybe I'm spoiled being a PS1/PS2/PS3 owner, but I know that when a good console game gets released it'll get a sequel/sucessor, and I won't have to wait 6 years. Sure, it won't be a super great leap in game engine over the original, being more of an "evolution and tweaking of what worked well", but it will be out, and they'll have my money.
So which do you think devs would rather have: 50 bucks from you every 6 years or 50 bucks every year or so.
Sure, but IBM entering the microcomputer market re-assured business users: "You'll never be fired for buying IBM." Rather than a plethora of computers to choose, from manufacturers as varied as Apple to Zenith, there was a "safe" choice.
I don't think a company wants to give up those PC sales figures just yet.
Not just yet, but it's only a matter of time. The PC game market is slowly but surely turning into the Amiga game market of the early 90's: ports from other platforms, games from European dev houses too poor to do console games, and lots of piracy. Think about it, if you told someone just 8 years ago that they'd be able to play a Fallout game on a console, or play the sequel to Half-Life on a console, or to play Diablo clone with online play on a console, they'd have said no way. Just like they said things like "you'll never play a blood drenched slugathon like DOOM on a kiddie console" back in 93.
But it does bring to mind something: when was the year of the microcomputer? The microcomputer was industry changing; world-changing even. But when was it called?
1982, when Time magazine named "The Computer", "Man of the Year"
Money! They're going to sell a lot more copies, sometimes it might even be 10x as many. Ever hear of a game called Summoner? It was a simultaenous PC/PS2 release. The PC version sold 50000 copies, not bad for an actiony RPG type game. The PS2 version sold 500000. You can imagine what happened,the sequel, Summoner 2, was PS2 only. Something similar probably happened to CoD.
As far as I know Fallout 3 DLC has been announced for the Xbox version as well as PC. I figure the PS3 will get the major DLC eventually, perhaps as a GOTY edition disk, that's what happened with Oblivion.
And yes, it's possible to get screwed either way, but in the case of the console game you're not going to get screwed with a game that wont even run at all.
Slashdot Mirror
As far as I know, there isn't, unless you install Linux on it.
I once suggested to SCEA that they do an "educational tool and homework helper disk" for the PS2. It might really be useful for one PC families. Slap a basic word processor (something akin to Wordpad or the old GeoWrite), a web browser good enough for wikipedia (perhaps based on Dillo code), maybe a typing tutor and a calculator.
It'd be easier with a PS3, it has a built in web browser, and it's easier to install Linux on it.
I understand it's just a TV show, but no, she was really a girl, who identified as a girl, who was genetically XY, and SHE had a tumor on one of HER testicles. When referring to transgendered and/or intersexed people it's best to use the pronouns of the gender they identify as.
They do? I like shoes! I played with dolls! I know my MAC foundation #. Yay, I'm a real man...and I should touch up my eyebrows with my Tweezerman. Ha that's funny, one of the most popular/highly regarded brands of tweezers used by women are called "Tweezerman"
All kidding aside, I really am transgendered...and a touch intersexed though I don't identify as intersexed.
It has for the transgendered community
Sometimes it seems that Transgendered folks and Linux go together like peanut butter and jelly. There are Linux users in practically every online trans-community I've visited, whether USENET, IRC or message boards.
Hello, Mr Interesting AC.
That's more of a problem with sports games, other games tend to be more "improved version of the previous game's engine that improves what we did well and takes out what didn't work so well". I think that's part of a philosophical difference between us I think. I don't mind a game that's what I liked before, somewhat improved, as long as it comes out quickly. If it doesn't come out quickly, I expect more improvements. For example the SOCOM games are "small evolutionary changes over time" on a mostly yearly basis, while Dark Cloud 2 (which came out in 2003) is a great improvement over Dark Cloud 1 (which came out in 2001) Console dev houses tend to have more people working on games than traditional PC game houses, that's one of the reasons their output is so high.
Oblivion (GOTY edition) was the first game I bought for my PS3. Here's what I don't get. I constantly read PC gamers saying Oblivion was half-broken and only worth playing if heavily modded, and I don't get it. The game's fine. There's a few minor annoyances, like the leveling system, but that's not that bad and can be dealt with by adjusting difficulty. There's some UI issues, like the large font that's just a little too large on 720P (small fonts can have readability issues on 480i, see the PS1 port of Darkstone for an example), and I wish there was a "fast page down" option in the inventory and spell screens like Final Fantasy games have but that's not really enough to call the entire game "broken". The game is also HUGE as it is, I've got over 105 hours into it already, and I want to complete as much of it as possible in a reasonable timespan. It doesn't matter that I don't have Mehrunes Dagger or the Horse Armor, or the Orrery, there's plenty of stuff in there already and when I'm done, there's more games.
Hmm, that may be another difference, I like the feel of "finishing" a game, the payoff. An endless game (with mods or whatever) delays that payoff, and my gaming time is finite. Time spent on the technical side of playing games (tweaking drivers and settings, downloading mods, making certain everything works together) would be time NOT spent actually playing the games. Which means that even if I like some PC type games, I'll prefer the console port.
I like Nethack, it's one of the few PC games I play, though I actually play it on my PS3 (and played it on my PS2 before the PS3) I've installed a few patches in it. I just like a good dungeon crawl being an old tabletop D&D player. One of the reasons I like a good console Diablo clone and games like Azure Dreams or Dark Chronicle is the touches of roguelike ancestry I see in them.
Thanks for responding.
Oh I agree, it's an odd route all right.
Now I'm one of those guys who hopes Linux will be in the list of disruptive technologies he's witnessed first-hand.
I think it will be disruptive...eventually, not that I know much about disruptive technology.
They are computers, special purpose ones, though these days they can also do more general purpose things. I have Linux on my PS3, for example.
But you don't HAVE to use those, but you can if you want (and if the developer gives you the option). Personally, I like mouse aiming in a PC to Console FPS port, but I can't stand WASD. So If I can, I use the mouse to aim, but the dual shock to move. It sounds awkward but works very well for me.
You also have to remember that there's more game genre's than FPS. and in most cases a dual analog joystick works adequately for those genres (and works "okay" in FPS's)
Let's take one of my favorite PC to console ports, the PS1 version of Diablo. It's a pre dual shock game, You can enable "Advanced" combo button controls, in that case holding R2 and hitting the "shape" buttons and the other shoulder buttons does different things, let me double check my manual so I get em right:
D-Pad = movement
Select = In game menu
Start = Pause
X = Attack
Square = Activate item/pick up item
Triangle = Cast active spell
Circle = use selected belt item
L1 = Quick Health
R1 = Quick Mana
L2 = Speed Spellbook
R2 = Combo button
R2 + Square = Inventory
R2 + X = Character info
R2 + Triangle = Toggle spell between the two enabled spells
R2 + R1 = Quest Log
R2 + L1 = Full Spell book
R2 + L2 = View Automap
Those controls are VERY fast to use, the game plays much much faster in the PS1 version than the PC version. The controls are also very comfortable for longer periods of time compared to the PC version which is VERY tough on the wrist and fingers. In other words, Diablo makes a better console game (for single player at least) than a PC game. It's all about the overall experience
I may be a bit naive here, but I find that a bit hard to believe, considering all the users (who claim to be admins) on slashdot or various bloggers and forum posters who claim to live in the linux console, extol the virtues of GNU screen and live in vi or emacs. I'm a "Desktop" Linux user, I don't code, I can't program my way out of a paper bag and even I know how to compile source. My first source compile was back in 2002, it was either Gaim .58 or AbiWord .99, so I'm a relative newbie to Linux.
Ahhh, very insightful. So you think that the "Year of Linux on the Desktop" will arrive in bits and pieces. Like having a distro that the less technical folks can install without out being a Minix guru, which leads into someone porting X11/Motif/Athena and all the other stuff, which leads into graphical window managers, which leads to desktop environments, which leads to software that you don't have to be a command line jockey to use, which will eventually lead to "Linux distros for the masses, not just for those who've taken programming classes."
That makes sense, I came to Linux via the PS2. I had read many stories about this "Linux thing" on Slashdot and bought a PS2 Linux kit to find out what it was all about. At that time I was a WebTV user, and it also turned by PS2 into a nifty little "computer" that was far more capable than that WebTV was. Got Linux on my PS3 now, still using Linux as a "Desktop", works pretty well for my desktop needs.
Thank you, AC, for that informational post, I didn't know it was a Futurama reference.
It's in their interest to sell you games as often as they can, but that's not exclusive with longevity. It depends on how you define longevity, isn't a year of gameplay enough? What if instead of selling you a game every 6 years, they could sell you one every year or so. What if Diablo III had come out in 2002, and then IV in 2004, and V in 2006 and VI in 2008.
Loyalty to Blizzard is fine, but there comes a time when Bliz fans should tell Blizzard to get off their duffs and start working harder and actually release games in a decent timespan, like they did in their console days. You shouldn't have to had wait 10 years for Bliz to do a Starcraft sequel. Any console dev house worth their salt that had a well regarded hit like that would have the sequel out in 2 years, for their fans. They'd do whatever it took.
Sure, mods are nice are probably nice for those PC games that don't get a sequel in a decent timespan But I've always been of the opinion that it shouldn't take 6 years to do a sequel, it should only take 1 or 2. Maybe I'm spoiled being a PS1/PS2/PS3 owner, but I know that when a good console game gets released it'll get a sequel/sucessor, and I won't have to wait 6 years. Sure, it won't be a super great leap in game engine over the original, being more of an "evolution and tweaking of what worked well", but it will be out, and they'll have my money.
So which do you think devs would rather have: 50 bucks from you every 6 years or 50 bucks every year or so.
Sure, but IBM entering the microcomputer market re-assured business users: "You'll never be fired for buying IBM." Rather than a plethora of computers to choose, from manufacturers as varied as Apple to Zenith, there was a "safe" choice.
Not just yet, but it's only a matter of time. The PC game market is slowly but surely turning into the Amiga game market of the early 90's: ports from other platforms, games from European dev houses too poor to do console games, and lots of piracy. Think about it, if you told someone just 8 years ago that they'd be able to play a Fallout game on a console, or play the sequel to Half-Life on a console, or to play Diablo clone with online play on a console, they'd have said no way. Just like they said things like "you'll never play a blood drenched slugathon like DOOM on a kiddie console" back in 93.
And THAT is one of the reasons I recommend against playing commercial games on PC's. Thanks for making my point for me.
Not the old mouse and keyboard thing, the PS2/PS3 have USB ports for a many reasons, one of them is more input options.
I just used round numbers for simplicity, google it.
Summoner was pre online distribution. For more recent games you have a point.
1982, when Time magazine named "The Computer", "Man of the Year"
I see somebody else likes that sig.
As the famous sig says:
Ladies and Gentleman, my warbot features Lotus Notes and a machine-gun, it is the finest available.
Slow to load, but load it did on a PS3 with Yellow Dog Linux using IBM Java.
Money! They're going to sell a lot more copies, sometimes it might even be 10x as many. Ever hear of a game called Summoner? It was a simultaenous PC/PS2 release. The PC version sold 50000 copies, not bad for an actiony RPG type game. The PS2 version sold 500000. You can imagine what happened,the sequel, Summoner 2, was PS2 only. Something similar probably happened to CoD.
As far as I know Fallout 3 DLC has been announced for the Xbox version as well as PC. I figure the PS3 will get the major DLC eventually, perhaps as a GOTY edition disk, that's what happened with Oblivion.
And yes, it's possible to get screwed either way, but in the case of the console game you're not going to get screwed with a game that wont even run at all.