1. Actually they do mix because on the consoles the games are designed to use that controller and take into account what you can do with it. don't blame the console or the game for your lack of fine motor skills. You PC gamers are so ham handed.:-)
2. Why do you expect to be able to do a 180 in less than a second? Is that realistic? do you think a soldier carrying body armor and a half dozen weapons could really turn that fast?. The console game is designed so you don't need to be able to do that.
Maybe you just need more practice with the controller.
Of course if you played FPS's on a PS2 you could use a mouse and keyboard, though I use a hybrid setup, Dual shcok in the left hand for movement, mouse in the right for aiming.
I always wondered why Microsoft didn't enter the console world sooner. It was pretty evident even from the NES days that console gaming was the future. I remember reading a PC gaming magazine in about 93 or 94 where some PC developer was bragging how they'd never do a console game and that you'd never see multiplayer fragfests or whatever on a console. I wrote in a letter (umpublished) saying that developer was stupid and cutting themselves off from huge revenues.
And don't get me started on Blizzard. They do a game, Diablo, that got raves for the console version and they don't port the sequel? And then several developers release "Diablo clones" at least one of which (Champions of Norrath) has online multiplayer.
Odds are that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will be early titles for the next generation of consoles, similar to how the original Doom was an early title for the PSone/Saturn/3D0 (and got ported to the SNES/Genesis 32X and evntually the GBA)
I have a copy of CivII for the PSone.:-) Oddly enough it does not support the PSone mouse. It controls ok with the joypad. It's a fun game, I never played it on PC not having a PC to play it when it originally came out.
I have always wondered how PC gamers can love their keyboards for movement control so much, UGGGh, I can't stand WASD for one minute. Mice on the other hand.
I'm one of those PS2 gamers with a keyboard (and mouse) attached to it. Mostly it gets used with the Linux kit. (Yes, I have one of those) but in games it's mostly for communication, except FFXI which seems to control best with a combination of joypad and keyboard.
For FPS's on the PS2 I use hybrid control, dual shock in the left hand for movement, mouse for aiming. A couple of FPS's on the PSone use the same scheme.
I have always believed tha for most genre's the Dual Shock is the best compromise in game control.
HDTV is new but WILL come down in price over time.
You are forgetting that FPS's on the consoles are designed to use the console controllers so control is not a problem. Then again you have a PS2 so you obviously know about the USB ports and the FPS's that support them. I personally prefer a hybrid setup, move with the analog stick/joypad, aim with the mouse.
My PS2 also can run Linux so I could do various kinds of non=gaming activities on it. "vi great_american_novel"
There already are games where both play together, ever play Final Fantasy XI? Oh, but you're probably one of those "I play only FPS's so that's why I hate console's" PC gamers so you probably didn't know that.
You are complaining about things that really don't need complaining about.
Wires: Once it's hooked up it's hooked up. Leave it that way and put it in your entertainment center with your VCR/DVD player.
Even PSone memory cards could hold a dozen saves of most games, easily. If you have a bunch put them in a little plastic lure box or something. PS2 cards are even roomier and with the HD you can transfer little used saves to that. I always label my cards too. I also leave the card for the game I'm currently playing in the slot. Currently I am "playing" Linux on my PS2.
You know, the way PC gamers obsess of resolution and RAM makes me think that to PC gamers the technology of games is more important than the games themselves.
I remember reading an editorial in a PC gaming magazine that made that exact point. The columnist was talking to a PC gamer who had a "tricked out" system and was bragging about his specs. The columnist asked him what games he played and the guy said something like.
"I actually don't play games very much but when I do, I play Counter Strike"
Does it really matter what resolution a game runs in? Does it really matter what RAM the PS2 has? a good game is a good game.
You do know that Playstation 2's have USB ports? Yo u do know that Playstation 2's can run Linux? So a PS2 owner can most certainly post on message boards with their PS2, using Mozilla Firefox no less.
Consoles horrible for FPS/RTS, that's limited thinking. Consoles play those games just fine. Remember, a simpler interface that does not get in your way is a better interface.
As for complexity, you obviously equate consoles with run/jump/bop so don't realize how much console games have changed over the past decade. Wanna Play Civ II, a complex PC game on a console? You sure can.
Final Fantasy XI is the same game no matter which platform you play it on.
I've got a cheap Windows laptop, purchased last year my first "real" PC ( Gateway 400SP Plus 2.2GHz Mobile Celeron 512MB RAM), that's more for the family and not for me because I use the kit for almost everything. Admittedly the laptop is often busy so I can't use it much no matter what, but I don't really care. I've compared the two machines running FireFox and although the laptop is faster, it's not 7 times faster. Oh what I would give for more RAM in the PS2. Yes, yes I should be using Dillo instead.:-)
I've tried gaming on that laptop and well even with that 845/855 chip (pretty good for integrated graphics) the PS2 beats it. Oh sure the laptop can run Diablo at higher resolutions but it "plays" better on the PS2. I tried running that FFXI benchmark on the laptop after downloading an app that would actually let the benchmark run on the H/T&L less laptop. It ran like crap even at the lowest setting. The PS2 version may not have the eye candy but it runs amazingly well. (Yes, I have two PS2's)
Of course the hardcore gamers are thinking, well yeah you need to spend a couple thousand dollars on a "real" gaming PC. I've seen the prices on those Alienware, Falcon Northwest machines the PC gaming magazines review. But does spending that much money on prettier pictures really worth it?
For most people some kind of inexpensive souped up web browsing/game playing game console would suit their needs fine.
With a good TV (S-Video connection at minimum) most traditional computing functions are "ok" I do remember when 640x480 was the standard desktop and my Linux kit can do 640x448 in NTSC. (you can, of course, hook it up to a monitor too)
This sort of thing would work even better with HDTV.
Posted from a Playstation 2 Linux kit running FireFox 0.8 under the FVWM2 window manager.
I was a WebTV/MSNTV user. WebTV's anti-alias text, so it's very readable amazingly so. But..... without a pointing device navigation sucks. WebTV's turn frames into weird acting tables, very annoying. WebTV's did not use as much screen area as they could leaving a large black border around the screen what was it 544 × 372 or something? The web browsing experience was not as good as it could have been.
I essentially replaced that WebTV with a Playstation 2 Linux kit. It was an inexpensive solution to my Internet/Computing needs and all the Linux articles on/. had peaked my interest. (Yes I read/. when I was a WebTV user). So before I purchased the kit I did some online reading, figured I could learn how to use it, made the pre-order and purchased some Linux books.
Best $200 I ever spent. As an internet access device it beats WebTV hands down. Oh sure there's no Java or Flash/Shockwave but that doesn't matter so much.
It has a 640x448 display, good enough for most purposes. (people did office work with Windows 3.1 at near that resolution) You've got the stuff most Linux distro's have and you can always try to compile what you want that isn't in there.
Unlike a WebTV it can: Display PDF's You can download to your HD and upload to your website without using a "transloader" You can better make use of a digital camera. It makes better use of printers. Not just MSN messenger, but Gaim. Unlike WebTV you've got fully featured IRC clients available so you can actually DO stuff. xpaint, kpaint, GIMP, make your own graphics Tabbed Browsing with FireFox Thunderbird, nuff said. (you can't save drafts on a webtv except by sending the draft to yourself and there is no BCC) Nethack, nuff said. You can play more than 30 seconds of an mp3. Unlike current WebTV units, it can use broadband. You can also use a sync-on-green monitor with it for higher resolutions (but I don't)
The Linux kit is one amazing thing. Sony does NOT hype the fact that you can use it as a PC they always say "hobbyist development" Even with the RAM limitation (32MB swap city) it isn't that bad.
I am surprised that SCEA hasn't released some kind of standalone easy to use "Internet appliance" disk for the Playstation 2. Sure there's PlayOnline for FFXI but that can't do Web pages.
I suspect that the PS3 might be the recipient of such a disk or have such functions built in.
And not only is it far cheaper (Now for only $99!) than the Yaroze was it is far far more versatile. It's primary purpose is development of course, but it IS pretty much like any other Linux distro so you can do things with it that don't require any programming knowledge at all.
Read/Post to Slashdot with FireFox no less.
Read/Send E-mail and to Usenet with Thunderbird
Chat on IRC.
Play Nethack.
Figure out which editor suits you better, vi or emacs.
Write the "Great American Novel"
View jpeg's and mpegs. Upload pictures from your digital camera/memory card and edit them with The GIMP.
Listen to your mp3's
Samba server, telnet server, ftp server, Apache server (this requires more knowledge, of course)
Actually I blame Big Jim Thompson for Illinois current mess. He overspent so Jim Edgar had to be a skinflint and underspend, even on things he should have spent more on, then George Ryan overspent as a reaction to the skinflint Edgar Administration. Now G-Rod's left holding the bag.
G-Rods trying to close that "services" loophole on almost everything. Local printing company is complaining about having to pay sales tax on equipment. Gee if I have to pay 6 bucks and a quarter on a cheapo hundred dollar HP, then R.R. Donelly should have to pay 625000 on a 10 million dollar printer.
Farmers are complaining too about perhaps having to pay sales tax on certain goods, gee if some of the poorest people in the community have to pay sales tax, then for sure as heck people with millions of dollars of equipment and land should too.
Mystara, that's the worlds proper name. Thyatis, Alphatia, Karameikos, Glantri, Ethengar etc.
There's some really cool stuff in the Companion and Master's boxed set, not even taking into account the total weirdness of the Immortal's set.
Weapon Mastery! Attack Ranks for the demi-humans! Megaliths! Draeden's! Player character gods!
They eventually compiled those in the hardbound Rules Cyclopedia, all in one. Player and DM information in one big fat book, plus a lot of optional stuff from the Gazeteers.
And the Hollow World, Wrath of the Immortals and Champions of Mystara boxed sets.
Dinosaurs! The evil Immortal of the Aztec like Azcan people is an Elf! There's a hidden valley with high tech elves in it! Dwarves who are NOT dour and taciturn! Halfling Pirates! Better rules for player character gods! Skyships! Fly to the invisible moon and meet the Samurai cat people!
Only on Mystara could a former starship engineer be an Immortal. The whole of Mystara's history makes a good case for a Prime Directive.
You probably don't know about what's under Glantri City, besides the monsters in the ancient catacombs and the like. You'll see some familiar faces in Glantri if you've read Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne stories. Bring Garlic and Wolfsbane
The early Gazetteers are awesome, tons of information. Great bang for the buck. The poor Wizards Almanacs really good.
Mystara was the best, most detailed world TSR had. No Forgotten Realms Elminster/Khelben/Harper types to overshadow the PC's. And without that intentionally archaic writing and horrible incoherent mess that was/is Oerth (World of Greyhawk)
Now whats that web address oh yeah http://dnd.starflung.com
Slashdot Mirror
1. Actually they do mix because on the consoles the games are designed to use that controller and take into account what you can do with it. don't blame the console or the game for your lack of fine motor skills. You PC gamers are so ham handed. :-)
2. Why do you expect to be able to do a 180 in less than a second? Is that realistic? do you think a soldier carrying body armor and a half dozen weapons could really turn that fast?. The console game is designed so you don't need to be able to do that.
Maybe you just need more practice with the controller.
Of course if you played FPS's on a PS2 you could use a mouse and keyboard, though I use a hybrid setup, Dual shcok in the left hand for movement, mouse in the right for aiming.
Both of the available console MMORPG's are PS2 exclusives. Everquest online Adventures and Final Fantasy XI.
FFXI is cross platform, PC players and PS2 players play together.
Last I checked the PS2 game SOCOM II has extremely high usage numbers, almost as high as counter strike.
I always wondered why Microsoft didn't enter the console world sooner. It was pretty evident even from the NES days that console gaming was the future. I remember reading a PC gaming magazine in about 93 or 94 where some PC developer was bragging how they'd never do a console game and that you'd never see multiplayer fragfests or whatever on a console. I wrote in a letter (umpublished) saying that developer was stupid and cutting themselves off from huge revenues.
And don't get me started on Blizzard. They do a game, Diablo, that got raves for the console version and they don't port the sequel? And then several developers release "Diablo clones" at least one of which (Champions of Norrath) has online multiplayer.
Odds are that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will be early titles for the next generation of consoles, similar to how the original Doom was an early title for the PSone/Saturn/3D0 (and got ported to the SNES/Genesis 32X and evntually the GBA)
I have a copy of CivII for the PSone. :-) Oddly enough it does not support the PSone mouse. It controls ok with the joypad. It's a fun game, I never played it on PC not having a PC to play it when it originally came out.
I have always wondered how PC gamers can love their keyboards for movement control so much, UGGGh, I can't stand WASD for one minute. Mice on the other hand.
I'm one of those PS2 gamers with a keyboard (and mouse) attached to it. Mostly it gets used with the Linux kit. (Yes, I have one of those) but in games it's mostly for communication, except FFXI which seems to control best with a combination of joypad and keyboard.
For FPS's on the PS2 I use hybrid control, dual shock in the left hand for movement, mouse for aiming. A couple of FPS's on the PSone use the same scheme.
I have always believed tha for most genre's the Dual Shock is the best compromise in game control.
HDTV is new but WILL come down in price over time.
You are forgetting that FPS's on the consoles are designed to use the console controllers so control is not a problem. Then again you have a PS2 so you obviously know about the USB ports and the FPS's that support them. I personally prefer a hybrid setup, move with the analog stick/joypad, aim with the mouse.
My PS2 also can run Linux so I could do various kinds of non=gaming activities on it. "vi great_american_novel"
There already are games where both play together, ever play Final Fantasy XI? Oh, but you're probably one of those "I play only FPS's so that's why I hate console's" PC gamers so you probably didn't know that.
You are complaining about things that really don't need complaining about.
Wires: Once it's hooked up it's hooked up. Leave it that way and put it in your entertainment center with your VCR/DVD player.
Even PSone memory cards could hold a dozen saves of most games, easily. If you have a bunch put them in a little plastic lure box or something. PS2 cards are even roomier and with the HD you can transfer little used saves to that. I always label my cards too. I also leave the card for the game I'm currently playing in the slot. Currently I am "playing" Linux on my PS2.
I'm a PS2 owner but there is one game out there that I will eventually buy a (used) X-Box for and that is KOTOR.
But if you really like RPG's you really have to have a PS2. Nothing wrong with owning multiple systems though.
You know, the way PC gamers obsess of resolution and RAM makes me think that to PC gamers the technology of games is more important than the games themselves.
I remember reading an editorial in a PC gaming magazine that made that exact point. The columnist was talking to a PC gamer who had a "tricked out" system and was bragging about his specs. The columnist asked him what games he played and the guy said something like.
"I actually don't play games very much but when I do, I play Counter Strike"
Does it really matter what resolution a game runs in? Does it really matter what RAM the PS2 has? a good game is a good game.
Always come back? You've got to be kidding. Get this through your skull, many people own and play both. and some people just play on their console.
Who say's FarCry isn't in the works for a console?
That sort of thinking gets PC gamers into trouble:
You'll never see a game like DOOM on a kiddie console.
You'll never see a game like half life or Deus Ex on a console.
You'll never be able to play Civilization on a console
You'll never be able to play games like Sim City on a console.
You'll never be able to play a game like Diablo on a console.
You'll never be able to play games online on a console.
You'll never be able to play a MMORPG on a console.
You do know that Playstation 2's have USB ports? Yo u do know that Playstation 2's can run Linux? So a PS2 owner can most certainly post on message boards with their PS2, using Mozilla Firefox no less.
Consoles horrible for FPS/RTS, that's limited thinking. Consoles play those games just fine. Remember, a simpler interface that does not get in your way is a better interface.
As for complexity, you obviously equate consoles with run/jump/bop so don't realize how much console games have changed over the past decade. Wanna Play Civ II, a complex PC game on a console? You sure can.
Final Fantasy XI is the same game no matter which platform you play it on.
...SlashEm, Falcon's Eye, noeGNUd. (Though the latter does not run at playable speeds.)
I've got one of those Linux kits. Amazing thing.
:-)
I've got a cheap Windows laptop, purchased last year my first "real" PC ( Gateway 400SP Plus 2.2GHz Mobile Celeron 512MB RAM), that's more for the family and not for me because I use the kit for almost everything. Admittedly the laptop is often busy so I can't use it much no matter what, but I don't really care. I've compared the two machines running FireFox and although the laptop is faster, it's not 7 times faster. Oh what I would give for more RAM in the PS2. Yes, yes I should be using Dillo instead.
I've tried gaming on that laptop and well even with that 845/855 chip (pretty good for integrated graphics) the PS2 beats it. Oh sure the laptop can run Diablo at higher resolutions but it "plays" better on the PS2. I tried running that FFXI benchmark on the laptop after downloading an app that would actually let the benchmark run on the H/T&L less laptop. It ran like crap even at the lowest setting. The PS2 version may not have the eye candy but it runs amazingly well. (Yes, I have two PS2's)
Of course the hardcore gamers are thinking, well yeah you need to spend a couple thousand dollars on a "real" gaming PC. I've seen the prices on those Alienware, Falcon Northwest machines the PC gaming magazines review. But does spending that much money on prettier pictures really worth it?
For most people some kind of inexpensive souped up web browsing/game playing game console would suit their needs fine.
I remember WebTV/MSNTV, being a former user.
I also own a Playstation 2 Linux kit.
With a good TV (S-Video connection at minimum) most traditional computing functions are "ok" I do remember when 640x480 was the standard desktop and my Linux kit can do 640x448 in NTSC. (you can, of course, hook it up to a monitor too)
This sort of thing would work even better with HDTV.
Posted from a Playstation 2 Linux kit running FireFox 0.8 under the FVWM2 window manager.
I've got smbd/nmbd running on this PS2 Linux kit at this moment. :-)
They've got some new MSNTV boxes in Beta test. Apparently they run WinCE, have USB ports, and ethernet jacks so they can do broadband.
I was a WebTV/MSNTV user. WebTV's anti-alias text, so it's very readable amazingly so. But..... without a pointing device navigation sucks. WebTV's turn frames into weird acting tables, very annoying. WebTV's did not use as much screen area as they could leaving a large black border around the screen what was it 544 × 372 or something? The web browsing experience was not as good as it could have been.
/. had peaked my interest. (Yes I read /. when I was a WebTV user). So before I purchased the kit I did some online reading, figured I could learn how to use it, made the pre-order and purchased some Linux books.
I essentially replaced that WebTV with a Playstation 2 Linux kit. It was an inexpensive solution to my Internet/Computing needs and all the Linux articles on
Best $200 I ever spent. As an internet access device it beats WebTV hands down. Oh sure there's no Java or Flash/Shockwave but that doesn't matter so much.
It has a 640x448 display, good enough for most purposes. (people did office work with Windows 3.1 at near that resolution) You've got the stuff most Linux distro's have and you can always try to compile what you want that isn't in there.
Unlike a WebTV it can:
Display PDF's
You can download to your HD and upload to your website without using a "transloader"
You can better make use of a digital camera.
It makes better use of printers.
Not just MSN messenger, but Gaim.
Unlike WebTV you've got fully featured IRC clients available so you can actually DO stuff.
xpaint, kpaint, GIMP, make your own graphics
Tabbed Browsing with FireFox
Thunderbird, nuff said. (you can't save drafts on a webtv except by sending the draft to yourself and there is no BCC)
Nethack, nuff said.
You can play more than 30 seconds of an mp3.
Unlike current WebTV units, it can use broadband.
You can also use a sync-on-green monitor with it for higher resolutions (but I don't)
The Linux kit is one amazing thing.
Sony does NOT hype the fact that you can use it as a PC they always say "hobbyist development" Even with the RAM limitation (32MB swap city) it isn't that bad.
I am surprised that SCEA hasn't released some kind of standalone easy to use "Internet appliance" disk for the Playstation 2. Sure there's PlayOnline for FFXI but that can't do Web pages.
I suspect that the PS3 might be the recipient of such a disk or have such functions built in.
The Linux kit supports Zip drives. :-)
And not only is it far cheaper (Now for only $99!) than the Yaroze was it is far far more versatile. It's primary purpose is development of course, but it IS pretty much like any other Linux distro so you can do things with it that don't require any programming knowledge at all.
Read/Post to Slashdot with FireFox no less.
Read/Send E-mail and to Usenet with Thunderbird
Chat on IRC.
Play Nethack.
Figure out which editor suits you better, vi or emacs.
Write the "Great American Novel"
View jpeg's and mpegs. Upload pictures from your digital camera/memory card and edit them with The GIMP.
Listen to your mp3's
Samba server, telnet server, ftp server, Apache server (this requires more knowledge, of course)
I've had similar issues. I've only been able to get the "This Window" plugin installed if I run FireFox as root.
I lost my bookmark file too, thanks to a plugin.
And some weird stuff going on with printer>properties which gives me an XML error when I click on it.
But it doesn't crash, at least it hasn't yet. And the performance isn't too bad. (running it on the PS2 Linux kit)
Actually I blame Big Jim Thompson for Illinois current mess. He overspent so Jim Edgar had to be a skinflint and underspend, even on things he should have spent more on, then George Ryan overspent as a reaction to the skinflint Edgar Administration. Now G-Rod's left holding the bag.
G-Rods trying to close that "services" loophole on almost everything. Local printing company is complaining about having to pay sales tax on equipment. Gee if I have to pay 6 bucks and a quarter on a cheapo hundred dollar HP, then R.R. Donelly should have to pay 625000 on a 10 million dollar printer.
Farmers are complaining too about perhaps having to pay sales tax on certain goods, gee if some of the poorest people in the community have to pay sales tax, then for sure as heck people with millions of dollars of equipment and land should too.
What would you want to do with it that you think you can't?
There's a hard drive in there, USB ports, Ethernet. You can do all sorts of things with one:
Telnet into it from your WinXP box and play tty Nethack
Use Cygwin/X and run applications remotely, like tiled Nethack
Plug in a memory card reader and put photos from your digital camera on it and actually edit them in the GIMP.
Start up FireFox and read/post to Slashdot.
Start up Thunderbird and read/post to rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Hang out in #nethack on irc.freenode.net with a graphical or console based IRC client.
IM your friends with Gaim.
Write a novel.
Play mp3's on it
Encode mp3's with lame (takes about an hour and twenty minutes for that though)
Run Samba, and use it as a file server
or ftp
You can use it as a webserver too.
Cluster a whole bunch of them and use them for scientific applications like the NCSA does.
All sorts of things.
There's been a price drop, the Linux kit is now available for $99
Define "crippled"
For the world is hollow and you can fly the sky.
Mystara, that's the worlds proper name. Thyatis, Alphatia, Karameikos, Glantri, Ethengar etc.
There's some really cool stuff in the Companion and Master's boxed set, not even taking into account the total weirdness of the Immortal's set.
Weapon Mastery! Attack Ranks for the demi-humans! Megaliths! Draeden's! Player character gods!
They eventually compiled those in the hardbound Rules Cyclopedia, all in one. Player and DM information in one big fat book, plus a lot of optional stuff from the Gazeteers.
And the Hollow World, Wrath of the Immortals and Champions of Mystara boxed sets.
Dinosaurs! The evil Immortal of the Aztec like Azcan people is an Elf! There's a hidden valley with high tech elves in it! Dwarves who are NOT dour and taciturn! Halfling Pirates! Better rules for player character gods! Skyships! Fly to the invisible moon and meet the Samurai cat people!
Only on Mystara could a former starship engineer be an Immortal. The whole of Mystara's history makes a good case for a Prime Directive.
You probably don't know about what's under Glantri City, besides the monsters in the ancient catacombs and the like. You'll see some familiar faces in Glantri if you've read Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne stories. Bring Garlic and Wolfsbane
The early Gazetteers are awesome, tons of information. Great bang for the buck. The poor Wizards Almanacs really good.
Mystara was the best, most detailed world TSR had.
No Forgotten Realms Elminster/Khelben/Harper types to overshadow the PC's. And without that intentionally archaic writing and horrible incoherent mess that was/is Oerth (World of Greyhawk)
Now whats that web address oh yeah http://dnd.starflung.com
Best Mystara site out there.