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Gaming PC Makers Take Aim at Lucrative Niche
Cymage writes "Yahoo (Reuters) reports that gaming PCs are now a high profit area, and that the bigger players (Dell, HP) are trying to get into the market: 'In an age when a new PC can cost just a few hundred dollars, an adolescent need for speed is creating a profitable niche for souped-up gaming computers at the ultra-costly end of the market.' How many people really spend $5,000 on a gaming machine? Mine cost less than $2,000, and I can play UT2k4 and others on it just fine."
Well mine cost $1000 and will play UK2k4 just fine... so there! :p
"With price tags from US$2,000 to $5,000, the market is luring heavyweights..."
:)
I can't see myself paying that much for a gaming machine. I can buy a PS2/XBOX/GAMECUBE for less than 200 dollars. I could even buy all three and a decent amount of games for each system for less than 2,000. I know, they can only play games but isn't that the point of a gaming pc? I wouldn't want to put my gaming pc on the internet, because then I would have to worry about viruses, which means I have to install a firewall, virus scanner etc which would just slow down my game play. A gaming system works like it should. I don't have to make sure I have the newest video card, all games will work. It plays games with no blue screens, drivers to intall, or patches. Not to mention its easy to stick in my car and play where ever I can find a tv.
I just want my phantom console.
Great, but why did it take them so long to figure out that people don't need new 3GHz Dells just to run word processors and internet explorer (at least until MS Longhorn comes out...)?
Left 4 Dead Gaming Group - http://www.l4dgg.com
When I build a new computer for myself I tend to spend in the range of 3-5k after everything is said and done. However I build that computer to last at least five years.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
It's simple. The people that buy pre-tweaked gaming PCs are people that want to play games but don't want to build the machines themselves. Those people DO exist, you know.
real gamers build their machines :-D and yes there is no reason for forking 5000 on one, hell I think some voodoo pcs are cheaper than that, though its best to build your own. pick your parts that you know work well.
How many people really spend $5,000 on a gaming machine?
It takes a lot of horsepower to run TuxRacer at full speed...
You haven't tried Doom 3.
its not the speed that counts.. its how you use it.
I bought my Athlon XP 2200+ and ECS motherboard for $70 from fry's, 1 gig of ram for $200 after rebates, and a Radeon 9800 non-pro for $150. Overclocked the cpu to 3200+ speed and flashed the 9800 to a pro. A new large hard drive will cost you about $100, a decent case + power supply $50, and all the "other stuff" maybe $100 total.
That's under $800 for a top-of-the-line system, when I got it.
People who spend $400 on a 512 meg ram module because it does 2-2-2 timing are just dumb, and have money to burn.
~Berj
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
About a year ago, I built my own system that was quite comperable for one of the high end Alienware computers of the time, and my cost was about 2000$ less than what Alienware was charging at the time, I don't see why one would pay 5000 for a system they can get for significantly less if they find someone who can put togeather parts for them.
I encrypt all my files with Double XOR Encryption!
Of course, most premade systems are still "lacking" for serious gaming, and not everyone can "roll their own" computer.
Murphy was an optimist.
Seriously, i dont think Dell has what it takes when it comes to build gaming pc's, neither does hp. Alienware, falcon, etc already have this niche, Dell simply cannot comete with their OEM motherboards and locked FSB.
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
Peace
Perfect timing for that "Hardware will be free" rhetoric of Bill and Scott to take form.
:)
I almost started a business doing this once. Then I saw Falcon Northwest and Alienware and realized that there wasn't room in the market for another one.
I figured that as PCs became commoditized and as commonplace as your average toaster that the elitists of the world would want some way to stratify PC ownership. Same reason that there are Kias, and there are Porsches. The small-penis crowd needs to validate itself through what it owns.
These are also the kids that mod the hell out of there pc.. Windows, water cooling etc...
My gaming rig is also excellent at video editing -- two hobbies of mine.
Like in any industry, there will be the ultra-highend enthusiast niche. Alienware, VoodooPC, Falcon NW, and others have been catering to these kind of users for years. Any commentary about pricing is pointless: these people pay big bucks to get bragging rights to the fastest, most tricked out, and beautiful (damn, that alienware case is gorgeous) machines money can buy.
It's the same in many industries, especially the automotive industry. Any commentary about how "it's different with cars, they aren't obselete in 3 years" is pointless: the automotive industry's pace of improvement and innovation is much, much slower than the PC industry's.
And just like with cars, we have nerds who buy honda civics and rice them up with neon lights, big, loud heatsink fans, awesome paintjobs, spoilers, etc etc. (case modders if you're dense).
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
It's pretty crazy that people spend huge amounts of money like that for a gaming PC. I just built a really damn nice one with an Athlon 64 3200+, GeForce FX5900, 8x dual-format DVD-burner, 1GB of RAM, and 160GB and 120GB hard drives for less than $1000. Even with a brand new ATI X800 XT instead of the 5900, it would be less than $1500 and be able to handle any game out now, next year, the year after, etc.
If they can't put it together themselves, they could hire the local nerd or small computer shop to do it for them. Even if it costs them $250 for the guy to put it together, they still come out WAAAAAAAY ahead.
I really think that people who buy $5000 gaming desktops have too much money and not enough sense.
Console drawback #1: Closed bootloader. Without a modchip or a buffer-overflow exploit, the consoles cannot run games from studios that aren't yet big enough to attract a Major Licensed Publisher's attention. Imagine a CD player that can't play CDs from outside the RIAA. Modchips violate the DMCA and foreign counterparts, and non-hackers would find it even harder to set up a buffer-overflow exploit (as seen in Phantasy Star Online for GameCube and MechAssault for Xbox) than to set up a dedicated gaming PC.
Console drawback #2: No widespread support for keyboard and mouse. Many players prefer to use a keyboard and mouse for some game genres such as shooters and battlefield simulations, but console games tend not to try to read them, even if you have a keyboard and mouse hooked up through the PS2 or Xbox console's USB port.
The people that would plunk down the coin for one of these boxes are not interested in "just fine"...a lot of these same people probably spend thousands of dollars on aftermarket parts for their '98 Honda Civic to squeeze 5-10 more HP out of the engine, not because they actually need it to win races or anything semi-practical like that, but so they can win the pissing contest after class with the rest of the guys at their high school.
Why do you think that AlienWare PCs ship with benchmarking software preinstalled? Who cares about benchmarks? Most AlienWare PCs passed the "just fine" point about 20-30 frames per second ago. These people care.
well http://falcon-nw.com/ are the guys who originally did the gaming pc.
I have done the tour when I lived there in Ashland and worked at project-a and those guys do make them right..
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
With all the flashy lights and neon and windows and stuff (some of which i admit looks pretty spiffy) i think it's more a matter of people being artistic or maybe just trying to draw attention to themselves. kinda like those guys and hot-rod up their honda with 400 lbs of bondo and orange paint. Personally, i've had the same experience as you guys. all I have is a celeron 2.2ghz and a lasst-gen gf4, but ut2004 and even Far Cry work great on it. Even though its running dog-slow winXP pro and running 2 different p2p apps in the background at all times. I run UT 2004 at 1280x1024, and far cry at 1152x864 and both get 40+ fps. I read lots of gaming mags and they commonly review machines costing as much as 6000$$ but honestly with all hardware that is at LEAST a year old and was old hat even when bought, there's nary a game i can't run. At LAN parties i've been to, you'll see guys with dingy beige p3's and they will STILL hand you your a$$ at counterstrike. Games are about skill mostly, and in the case of internet games, partially about your bandwidth. So if you really wanna rule, scratch the alienware, and go for the DSL/Cablemodem. that and practice ;-)
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
I would guess that less than 1/3 of the people who buy these machines actually need them and the rest are talked into buying them by Best Buy salespeople.
Like my neighbors who were talked into spending $200 on a wireless G access point and 2 USB network cards so that they can check email from both of their computers.
Everyone I know who complains that their computer is too slow and that they 'need' a new one is looking at these really fast machine when all they really need to do is run ad-aware.
...Macs, and then you will have a good idea who would pay that kind premium.
--
You will need your Troll +3 to see past the Mac zealots on this one.
Fine, you can play UT2K4. Have you tried Farcry yet?
I admit, I've bought two Alienware computers in recent years. They're stylish and after years of building and tweaking, I just wanted something cool out of the box.
But I got a link to their new ALX line in my mailbox yesterday and about fainted when I got to the bottom line.
Price: $4,799.00
As low as $144 per month!
For that price it should not only run games well, it should go ahead and finish Half Life 2, Duke Nukem Forever, Doom III and go ahead and port over Halo 2 all while I sleep.
PCs are better than video game consoles for certain types of games, mainly strategy and RPG games.
Until video game consoles come up with good replacements for the keyboard and mouse, that fact will remain.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
My machine was not purchaced "only" for games, however with that said, I use it for them and bring it to LAN parties (http://www.maxfrag.com). I paid just over 3300 for the Box, plus another 2K just for the 23" screen.
BTW> it's a Mac Dual 2Gig processor G5, 3.5 gigs ram, 250gig SATA drive, with a 23" High Definition LCD display. It plays every game that has made for or been ported to the Mac platform faster and better looking than any of the PCs it has been side by side with, and that includes some of the Ultra high end Alienware stuff...
MacOSX, because making *NIX better is a lot better than waiting for Micro$loth to fix Windows
after they've been out more than about a year and a half. Once PC tech exceeds the initially cool console tech, those who can afford it always come back to pc's. Oh yeah, and the console games suck by comparison. Let's see FarCry on one of the current consoles, yeah didn't think so.
Admittedly, comparing computers to cars is usually pretty weak. However...
There is a good comparison here. A (new) US$15000 will drive on any road the same as just about any other car.
There are people who just want a car.
There are people who will, as another poster commented, buy Honda Civics and modify them to the point where you can no longer recognize them.
There are also plenty of people who will buy very expensive sports cars that have already been modified. Not every driver who wants to go fast is a mechanic.
Not every teenager who wants a fast gaming machine is a geek either.
What's that smell? Ah, that's my karma burning...
"Mine cost less than $2,000, and I can play UT2k4 and others on it just fine."
I paid 750 for mine (self built), amd 64 3200+, 1gig ddr, geforce fx 5900 ultra.
In fact, last time I bought a machine it was less than half that. And by the time there's any game that it can't run, I can spend the same again to get a machine that is faster than any PC on the market today.
Except I won't. I don't think I'll need a new monitor, keyboard or mouse, and I can probably skip a generation for the DVD writer.
I don't think most people buy a new PC when they want to play the next bleeding edge hardware requiring game. I atleast, upgrade one component at a time. One month I get a new video card, the next month I get a better motherboard (with CPU and memory for it if my old ones won't work on it), etc. I upgrade a little at a time to stay current.
No one with half a brain will want to spend $3k on a Dell with a non standard motherboard foot print (LPX or NPX or whatever its called where the daughercards all go in a slot that is perpendicular to the motherboard and therefore makes motherboard upgrading impossoble). and remember to stay bleeding edge you'd have to upgrade yearly or more often. no one will want to shell out $3+ a year on a completely new computer just to play the latest games. why do that when you can get a $200 play station and do the same thing and have it stay current for 5 years?
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Problem is that none of the three major consoles has independently developed games such as Cube, not even the GameCube.
In general, where can I find independently developed games for GameCube, and how do I run them? And if you suggest the PSO loader, you might as well run the game on the PC itself.
-truth
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
Built, not bought!
Most of the cross-over games for consoles (Ghost Recon to name one...) aren't always as challenging, probably because of having to "port" the game.
On the other hand, game developers are pushing for market share that no one else is competing in yet and mass market hardware be damned (the new version of Doom as one example).
With PC games, gamers face having to build a PC to keep up with the industry. That means hi-end hardware for anyone who has tried to scrimp and didn't like the lock-ups.
Mod me troll, if you must, I can't help it.
About 5 years ago, I built a 233 Mhz Pentium II machine for about $500. Each year, I put $100 - $200 into hardware upgrades and I have a machine that will very comfortably play today's games (ex. Tron 2.0, Vice City, UT2K4) and I still haven't spent more than $1500. On top of that, I was able to Frankenstein some parts from the old computer and buy a $30 case/power supply and I now have a spare computer that can read e-mail, surf the net, and play games along the age of RA2, Quake 3, and UT.
I'll probably spend $10000 on my gaming machine, then mod-chip it so I can emulate the $5000 machine.
I could see how it could happen. Just yesterday I saw on another forum a bunch of gamer geeks with more money than sense who wanted to rush to buy "on-sale" (but not even out yet) ATI X800XT Platimum Edition video cards for $450 to replace their $450 to $500 top end ATI 9800XT cards they bought a month or two ago! And with that mindset you just know that come September thay will have to have the next card that replaces their so-last-week X800XT. And they are buying these cards and saying they are buying them to play Half Life 2 and Doom 3. Buying and replacing high end video cards supposedly for games that might not even be out before the next wave of video cards comes out!
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
My new 10MB hard drive sure beats the hell out of my Tape Drive, and the 64K ram upgrade should be all I ever need, especially since my 8088 comes in at a whopping 4.77 MHz - kick ass! I get 2 FPS on Ultima I, and I just found the EXOTIC ARMOR. Not to mention Zork is as smooth as silk.
Most gamers that I know (all of my friends for example) have homebuilt computers. Someone can build a computer as powerful as a new Dell, HP, or Alienware, but for a fraction of the price. Another benefit of building your own gaming computer is knowing your machine backwards and forwards, meaning less interaction with tech support. It is a very educational experience, and the value of the knowledge gain should not be ignored. Yet with all these benefits, people are scared to build there own. My homebuilt computer cost $1100 dollars with shipping and everything. The same computer from dell would cost $2300. Even if I messed up on my first try, I still have $1200 dollars to spend on replacing the parts that were messed up. I would gain more knowledge about computers, and still have upwards of $200 left over. The bragging rights of building your own aren't to be ignored either.
it goes to 11
I have no idea why you'd want to do that when even the best machine you can get is toast after 2 years. If you spent $2000 initially and upgraded the important bits every year or so, you would spend less than $5000 and have a machine that is, on average over the 5 year span, far better.
Man they see those wannabe computer gurus coming.
My system...
Gigabyte SINXP: 100 bucks (great motherboard - dual everything! dual ram, dual RAID controllers SATA and PATA, dual bios..)
3.06 P4, 533 fsb was 300 when I bought it (was the fastest p4 on the block).. Could have gone cheaper with an athlon rig, but as a developer AMD left a bad taste in my mouth years ago and haven't risked it... Anyways, you can get a 3.4 with 800mhz fsb for 2 something
2x80 gig WD caviar's - 80 bucks at best buy after rebate.. A buck of gig for raid 0 silliness.. (No I dont care if my array crashes)
Radeon 9800 non-pro - 150 bucks at Circuit City back when. I cant for the life of me see a real life differnce between this and the pro. Yeah benchmark scores are lower, I'm talking about real life game performance.
100 bucks for the PSU, the 450 watt Antec. Cheap PSUs will bite you in the ass. And a cheap PSU is what Dell/eMachines/etc are going to ship.
And thats the base system. I chucked an old SB Live value edition card in there because the digital out on the onboard sound kept popping. Those are what, 20 bucks these days?
Picked up a new 19" monitor at Office Depot for 90 bucks after rebates. Mid-range monitor, but looks great and is better than anythign I've seen ship with a Dell. LCD panels suck for gaming, IMO. They look crappy outside of their native resolution, and I wont be able to run everything at 1280x1024.. And motion blur is still an issue despite all the claims otherwise..
So 300+100+80+150+20 = 650 bucks for the components. 90 bucks for the monitor, and hell, lets go super crazy and blow 200 bucks for super duper boomslang mice and keyboards and a 50 dollar ratpadz mousepad. (3M makes a very similar pad you can get for 10 bucks at office depot)
So lets round up to $1000 for the whole ball of wax. That leaves me 4000 bucks for the case.
4000 bucks buys a whole fucking lot of LED fans and blinking neon lights.
I guess I forgot other stuff. 120 bucks for a Pioneer A06 DVD+-R(W), and another 40 for a regular DVD-Rom drive. Cant remember what it is, it was just the cheapest one that I bought so I wouldnt gunk up the burner with grimey discs.
Forgot RAM too... A gig of Kingston ValueRAM 400. I don't overclock, and this was the only pair of sticks that work stably in my system - that includes some wayyyyy overpriced Corsair XMS platinum edition mega-shit. That was about 200 bucks.
Anyhow, I really would just love to see what Dell et all ship for $5,000. I know Alienware buyers (yeah the machines are great gaming boxes) take it straight up the ass.
But hell, for $5,000 I'd have dual Athlon64s, X800 XT, 4 gigs of RAM, a RAID-5 array of 15k megasuperawesomeuberdrives, a blowjob hole, etc, etc..
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Who needs a $50,000 luxury car?
Who needs a hummer?
Who needs a sports car that can do 150 mph?
Who needs to spend $25,000 on aftermarket parts?
Cars make the best parallels here but you can do this for a lot of other industries. Some people want the biggest, best, fastest, and most powerful. For some people its about material possessions, others its about showing off, others its insecurity.
The bottom line is that people with money are willing to part with it by buying hugely expensive things that they don't need, and therefore there will be people that recognize the market.
Why the poster even made mention of it was probably rhetorical but from the early posts a lot of people are taking it way too seriously.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
I think the same philosophy goes to having a comfortable bed, chair, etc. Money's made to be spent, and what better place to spend it than on something I use most every day?
If you're someone who won't build your own gaming PC, and you don't know anyone else that can, chances are you're a kid and your mom will be buying the machine.
And she'll probably buy a Dell or HP.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
"How many people really spend $5,000 on a gaming machine?"
Not very many genius...that's why it's called "niche".
I use a lab full of XGrid-ed macs to run Nethack! I think my gaming rig is the most expensive in terms of $ spent per processor cycle required for the game :)
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
We ran some kick ass games on a 1-Mhz C64... or we used pen, paper, dice and about $50 in manuals.
meh
Oh really? So that's what that black socket on my latest game CD is for.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Well mine cost... wait, UK2k4?
These are age-old sales tactics, perfect for kids who want to fit in, assume cost equals quality, and are foolish enough to part with their money.
It's not niche - it's the essense of the free market system.
edfardos
True, you don't get to try out new mods and such, but there's a lot of folks who don't really care for that type of stuff.
Generally I agree that consoles are horrible for FPS games (bad control scheme, lack of mods, etc.), but one thing they have is the ability to get a bunch of people in a room quickly, and to have a ton of fun playing the game. A few years ago, Goldeneye on the N64 was all the rage. I hated using the controller, but I didn't matter. It was such a blast to get everyone together in one room. Nowadays, Halo seems to be the console FPS of choice in college dorm rooms everywhere.
Yes, I know you can sort of achieve the same effect with LAN parties, but it's a pain lugging computers around, getting everyone setup, making sure there's enough wiring, etc. It's not spontaneous, and certainly not something you can do every night.
-- jchenx
I just a bought a new graphics card and ended up choosing a low end card that seems to work great.
Part of my decision to not buy something better was basic psychology.. It's like how the average human brain can't percieve the difference between a 90watt and a 100watt light bulb.
Sure the high end card can pump out a shit load more FPS - BUT.. can my brain detect that difference? While the difference might be apparent between a really low-end vs. a really high-end, what about between two cards toward the high-end? Is it really worth the extra $100 for the best card on the market if a cheaper card differs by less than 10% FPS and consequently you don't notice that difference?
I've always stayed toward the lower end because I don't think the performance gains in a high end machine are worth the extra $$$ especially at the current rate of obsolescence. I upgrade when the cost of doing so falls to less than a $100.
I'm not a psychologist though and my understanding is really limited to the classroom discussion of lightbulbs. I would be really interested if a more knowledge person replied and explained if I'm on the right track or pulling thoughts out of my ass.
Just fine doesn't mean anything. The guys spending this much money on hardware doesn't care about just fine. To be able to compete (and that's what real gamers do, complete) you need to let the hardware work for you instead of against you. Most people would have been fine with 80 fps in Quake 3, but to be able to compete you needed 125 fps, steady. Sure, you could do alright without, but it made it that much harder. Same thing with Counter-Strike, you needed a rig that gave you 99 fps, all the time. Snooze you lose.
I can understand that, with the hardware on the shelves, a computer company will put together an Uber Machine for anyone with enough $. If their is an identifiable segment all the better. But is this a gasp of an industry looking for deserting customers?
More important to me, how healthy is the manufacturing sector. I will never spend that kind of dough on a PC, although I once did in the day.
Are there enough dollars for the technology front runners to build their elite machines? Can I count on them paying for the RD before it gets to affordable prices.
ls
You spend more time configurign some games to run properly than you do playing them. Screwing around with resolutions, detail levels, AA and AF, etc, etc..
If the game's not extremely buggy, you can start with low detail and 640x480 and then go up from there. You can make one tweak before each round. And if you're going through an emulator, it'll probably run in low detail anyway because the original console had a 320x224 pixel display.
No good gamepad support.
Unlike consoles, computers are fully able to piggyback on the other gaming tradition's controllers. Plug two Dual Shock controllers or PlayStation dance pads into a $16 EMS USB2 adapter, and you have the perfect controllers for platform games, ball sport simulations, kart racing games, and classic shooters. It's just as good as your "xbox gamepad with a usb plug soldered on."
you spend forever configuring the pad for each specific game.
It takes no more than 20 seconds to get a typical PC game to bind a PS1 controller's buttons, and you only have to do it once.
My couch is more comfortable than my task chair, and my widescreen is easier on the eyes than my monitor.
If your widescreen is new enough, it'll be an HDTV with a VGA D-sub input. If not, just connect your video card's S-video output to your TV.
Lets say Dell actually started funding video game development. IT would be a friggin disaster.
They would force they programmers to ensure that new games don't run on old hardware, so DELL could bundle crap, and cram $4000 dollar PCs down peoples throats who are intested in playing the awesome new game.
Pretty much what MS did with Halo.
3.2GHz P4? 7200RPM drive? You're kidding right? That thing is a toy. I dunno what kind of work you do, but running my development tools on a lil box like that would make my life hell. 640k ought to be enough for anyone, eh Bill?
Blar.
I thought the advent of more powerful processors and dedicated 3D chips in consoles led to the demise of 2D gaming
In the early days of the PlayStation, Sony wouldn't license any 2D games or role-playing games, in order to distinguish the PlayStation console from the Sega Saturn, which was a 2D powerhouse. This forced crap like "Bubsy 3D" on players.
I don't think that niche PC builds/designs are just limited to gamers. There are also corporations that want to portray a more elite computing image than the generic IBM/HP/Dell boxes that every other company has sitting on their desks. Companies such as Liebermann Inc:
http://www.go-l.com/home/index.htm
work to offer upscale PCs that appeal to design and advertising firms that want a more prestige look.
The1Genius - Littera Scripta Manet
...these companies are just making a (terribly overpriced) PC "console".
Imagine if you had to build an X-box/PS2. I know many people here would do it, but would the general public? Joe sixpack? Sally Walmart? That 8 year-old kid down the street?
I think of these PCs as the "console" for the intellectually lazy and idle rich. I enjoy researching and choosing hardware, but most people I know are totally clueless about it. Most people I know think the "CPU" is that biege/black box sitting on their desk.
$500 with a 17 LCD from dell, after rebate, which is 4550, with p4 2.8G 256M memory 40G DVDROM, CDRW, I just add 512M RAM, a radeon 9600 video card from my old machine, it plays UT2004 just fine. you just need a decent video and fast enough everything else to play those top games.
I'm biased toward homebrew as well because I am active in the GBA homebrew community, having developed a couple games myself. Consider the GBA like a Super NES that you can program in C.
Factually, SCEA is the death of 2D on consoles. You cannot release a new 2D game on the PS2 in America. You can release a collection of old games, but not a new one. For reference: most recently Metal Slug being Xbox exclusive.
But then the divorce attorney would be sure to make up the difference! That's the point right, I mean sure I could put one together cheaper than Dell or HP, but then It would take time away from other things, it's just a question of how valuable your time is... simple
*narf!*
Your comment on Computers vs. Cars reminds me of a comment I made to a friend back when the performance difference between laptops and desktops was much larger than it is now. My friend was considering buying a $6000 laptop, and I said, "You do realize you can buy a desktop with comparable performance, ~and~ a used van to drive it around in for the same price, right?".
Of course I realize that laptops' portability has other advantages, but nevertheless the idea of spending $6000 on a PC shocked me.
but consider the cost of wasting your life playing games.. that's got to be a couple hundreds dollars.
I think that approach is wasteful. You're buying top of the line products, only to have their "worth" cut down by at least 40% within 6 months. I buy my components at the most attractive pricepoint. I tend to spend around 100 bucks for each component, and integrate anything that's good enough (sound, LAN). I spend a lot on the video card, so I'm going at least 150 - 230 there. In the end, I guess I end up spending 1000-1200 bucks.
Keep in mind that when we upgrade, we can usually keep our monitors and keyboards and speakers and the like when we upgrade. And unless I'm doing an architecture change requiring a new processor and motherboard (and possibly RAM), I'm going to upgrade all of these components piecemeal. When the time comes to jump on a new video card, I do so. When I want more RAM, I get that. When I need more processing power, I juice that up. The only time I'd spring for a whole new machine is if I needed one, and the only reason I'd need one is if all or most of my components were shot and/or hopelessly outdated.
3 years ago, after college, for my graduation present I asked my parents for a new PC. (I'd been talking it up for the previous 4 years.) The one I got was a top of the line Alienware system, complete with the brand new (very expensive) 64 MB Nvidia card and a whopping 384 MB RDRAM. At the time it cost ~$4500-5000 with a decent 19" monitor.
Guess what - it's 3 years later now, I haven't upgraded a single thing and it can still play most new games. The only thing I'd upgrade now would be the memory except it's outdated (RDRAM) and I'm lazy.
When I get out of law school, I'll get a new gaming computer, probably from Alienware (sans monitor, though). I wish I knew more about assembling computers but I don't so I'm a bit uncomfortable with sinking "serious" money into doing something that I could easily screw up royally. Maybe I'll try to assemble my next computer but I doubt it.
Btw, on an oddly related note, I found Alienware's customer service to be horrible when I tried to use it 2-3 years ago. I eventually stopped looking for help from them. (Besides, I probably voided the contract when I upgraded to Windows XP.)
and I can play UT2k4 and others on it just fine
Which is all anyone needs, of course. But as long as I can remember there's always a large set of young men who have to have The Absolutely Biggest Fastest Bestest whatever if that whatever can be compared. From penises to computers to cars, stereos, and big screen TV's, some guys need to feel like the king.
I'm not much for this myself, so I don't really get it. I don't pass any harsh judgement on it -- though it is a bit amusing.
Cheers.
...
[somewebsite.com]
Post From: Berj
Subject: PC Freezes and textures tear
Hi guys, I recently bought Doom3 and my system is having trouble after I ran it. Now the rest of my games seem to lock up more often and I never had any problems before installing Doom3. I have the latest drivers and DirectX installed and working properly.
Is anyone else having this problem?
$3000 - $5000? That's just insane. It doesn't take more than $600 to enjoy games on your latest P4.
Everone can afford atleast a P4 2.4Mhz with decent memory and space for $500 these days. Add another additional $400-$600 and you can get yourself a nice video card and a good sound system to with it. So there you go. In less than $1300, you have yourself a gaming and a desktop system.
Any hardcore gamer will not be buying their system from any manufacturer unless they have a really good reason (Read: Voodoo's fanless PC and you don't have that much time or ingenuity). You can build any PC system to match the specs of the top alienware or voodoo for at least half the price and usually less if you're good and persistent.
As for customizing, I assume you're referring to custom internals, case, etc (as opposed to purchaseable?). I want to know what kind of customizations cost 2000 dollars. As far as I know, most customazations cost little to know money as raw materials tend to be much, much cheaper than store bought products. Unless you're referring to custom processor mods, etc...at which point I'm out of my league.
Any electrical engineers out there comment on what electrical mods you've done on your own PCs and what they cost?
Considering I can usually put together a PC for 2/3rds the cost from components identical to a boxed set, I'd expect to get something more for my extra $1500. If they shipped a rock-solid, tested system that's been well-tuned (i.e. remove all that junk that comes standard in XP, minimize system load, ensure that every driver works perfectly with every other driver), I'd consider buying one. At the moment though, that isn't the case...and unless I can get a 6800 3 months before the general public can, I see no reason to shell out the large amount of extra dough
What the heck is a 'sig'?
New games that need patches to run
So what? After a few months most of the bugs should be ironed out, and the price will even have dropped. Or do you fear that the game's online community will have evaporated by then?
copy protection
Tired of having to deal with that? Players of shareware, freeware, and Free Software games don't have to deal with buggy DRM to near the extent. In fact, one of the big advantages of PCs over consoles is that the PC even has legitimate shareware, freeware, and Free Software.
First, decide what parts to use by looking at Tom's hardware or some other site you trust that builds extreme machines for testing the latest components. This is where you get your template.
Then go to Pricewatch and maybe froogle to find the lowest prices on the components while double checking the vendors reputation on Reseller Ratings.
Finally, have a friend who has a little experience come over and put that beauty together.
I spec'ed out a top of the line Alienware machine against building my own with the same or better components and cut the price by more than half.
Samsung 19" 191T LCD monitor: $800 new. I needed to replace the 17" Gateway CrystalScan that finally died after nearly 10 years of abuse. I turn over my PC about every 2 years, so let's count that as one fifth of the new monitor's cost, or ~$160
:) And yes, I definitely include myself in that. :lol:
Mobo w/ 3.2 GHz Intel processor: ~$700.
New DVD/CDR/CDRW/CD drive: ~$80
New case: ~$120
I reused my HDs, but just for the heck of it, two 80 GB HDs: ~$200
GeForce4 w/ 64 MB onboard RAM: ~$250
That's a system that isn't all that hot, and I didn't go out of my way to save money. I still managed to get this whole system together for about $1600. I know several people who could have probably put together an equivalent system (using AMD instead of Intel, for example) for less than $1000.
People who spend more than $1000 for a new PC nowadays do so because they're too lazy to shop around much.
Gamer's penis envy.
A big, simple reason innovation in cars (or airplanes, or coffee makers) is slower than that in computers: computers are still a young industry. Bill Gates likes to use this sort of comparison by way of arguing that MS hasn't stifled innovation: "If airplanes had changed as much between 1980 and today as computers, they'd fly us cross-country for 50 cents in ten minutes," that kind of thing. But all those other industries changed at a vastly higher rate when they were young too. Flying machines changed an awful lot from Santos-Dumont's balloons to World War I to the German jets at the end of WWII, in every imaginable way, right?
But back to your point: Cars won't be obsolete in 3 or 5 years, and that difference really isn't "pointless." If I trick up my Civic, it'll be out-of-style in three years, but it'll get me there on the gas they sell at SA. With a gaming computer, I can spend through the nose and be below box specs for some of the games that come out next year. Partly that's just the young industry again. But you know, you can still find places to land your biplane.
Between the gaming wonks trying to one-up each other and the game studios whose idea of innovation is better texture effects in FPS titles, the lack of imagination is pretty amazing. You'd think this would be such a creative thing, games, but instead we get the equivalent of U.S. blockbuster movies over and over again. You'd think the wonks would at least show some individuality in their tastes... Car geeks and EAA airplane kit builders are a lot more interesting, for my two cents.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
For the past 20 years, I have been an avid computer gamer and have had countless hours of fun playing games from Manic Miner and Jetpac, through Speedball 2 and Alien Breed, to Doom(s), Civilization(s), Half-Life & Unreal (Tournament(s)).
Today, I still play all of those games, some through the marvels of emulators. All of them, and more, are as immersive now as they were then.
However, I think we would be in agreement that playing Manic Miner at a higher frame rate or resolution would not enhance, in any way, the excellent playability of the original game.
Carrying this forward through my list of games, whilst many of them enjoy 3D rendering technology and first-person perspective, they all have one thing in common - they are all just games.
What I mean by this statement is that I do not need to be immersed in lifelike graphics in order to enjoy gaming - that's because I am possessed of an intellect that tells me that when I am staring at a PC monitor blasting aliens/jumping ledges, I am in a fantasy state of conciousness. At this level of conciousness, I immerse myself (thank you very much) into a game - sure, graphics will assist in my self-propelled immersion but the main catalyst for rocketing me into that world of make believe will be... and allow me to blow the dust off of this word as it has not one that is often used... gameplay.
Now, call me revolutionary but I don't actually give a tinker's nostril about a game that is whizzing past me at 50000 frames per second at 20480 x 10240 resolution if I have to keep simultaneously poking my brain through my earhole to stop it going comatose through lack of stimulation.
Therefore, if you don't mind, I think I'd rather stay just here, building my bland white-coloured PCs with 100 pound/euro/dollar graphic cards for 1/4 of the cost of one of your "HumungoFastPenileViper GX" gaming PCs, secure in the knowledge that I retain enough currency to enjoy financing some social contact and interaction in the real world also.
Good day to you.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Yammering about a class war, from *either* the left or the right, disqualifies you from polite human society. Go back to 1948.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Yea, bullshit. Us geeks spend more time on our PCs then watching TV or anything. Dell are known to install spy ware. If you can get ten geeks spending 12 hours a day online thats about the same as getting 1000 people spending half an hour here or there.
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
why do that when you can get a $200 play station
Answered
A high powered rig *will* make you perform better in a resource intensive game such as Dark Age of Camelot, where the computer must render hundreds of characters and effects simultaniously at a high framerate to keep you in the battle. I play on a 3GHz P4 with a gig of ram and a Radeon 9800 pro, and I still have some trouble in certain situations with a large number of players. And yes, my system is *very* clean.
I keep forgetting my place. Jesus is for losers. Why do I still play to the crowd?
While many hard core gamers and definitely the slashdot crowd knows how to put together a good gaming PC on the cheap, the majority of the people who are going to be buying these machines really don't understand the difference between a hard drive and a video card.
My cousin bought an hp pavillion about a year ago (against my recommendation, but that's irrelevant now) the specs on it were:
- 1.2gz celeron
- 128meg PC100 SDRAM
- 56k v90 modem
- 20gb hard drive
- some sort of non-3d accellerated 8mb video card
- yadda yadda yadda
well the other day he went and got Final Fantasy XI and couldn't understand why it wouldn't run. Instead of calling me, they decided that they needed a faster "modem" and "more hard drive" so they went and paid some exorbant amount of money to have a v.92 modem and a 250gb hard drive installed.When the game still wouldn't install, they finally called me because someone had told them to go buy a new Alienware machine so they could play final fantasy on it, and they wanted to know which one to buy.
I ended up going over and just upgrading the ram to 512meg and trading them the GeForce 4 I had in one of my machines that is now a server for the cheapo video card.
The point is, I suspect that a lot of high end gaming rig sales come from consumers who really have no idea what they need.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
"extra power supplies to run demanding programs"
A friend of mine spent closer to $10K on his gaming rig, buying not only a completely new system from the ground up using only the newest and highest-end (read: most pricey) hardware, but also the highest end set of 7.1 surround speakers he could get.
I believe he's running an Athlon 64 FX processor but other than that I don't know too much about his system.
Here's the best part:
We're having a LAN party at his place this weekend and he's not even going to be playing. He very rarely uses his PC at all, let alone to play games.
Model 551, Chambered in 6mm
I used to have (a year or two ago) a good old 12Mhz DOS machine that I used to play all those wonderful old games from back in the day.
You just can't replicated that experience on a newer box running MS-DOS under WinXP or anything.
Long live old games!
Error 407 - No creative sig found
How many people really spend $5,000 on a gaming machine? Mine cost less than $2,000, and I can play UT2k4 and others on it just fine.
If people are going to spend that kind of money, it's not the worst way to do it. I see too many cars on road these days that obviously have thousands and thousands of dollars put into them. Spinning hubcaps, aftermarket mufflers, super-tinted windows, racing stripes, ridiculously tall spoilers, etc. Talk about a real waste of money. How much of this is functional? They're so un-functional, the after-market mufflers are actually designed to NOT MUFFLE!
At least when you buy an expensive gaming computer, you're actually getting additional performance out of the machine.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
is for losers. :D
I really don't quite get you guys who are making statements akin to "well my box cost $600 and it plays games just fine". WHAT games? Quake 2? Flight Simulator 98? The original Sim City? No $600 machine is going to crank out the polys that are required for today's (and tomorrow's) proc-intensive madly expensive PC game crop. The cost of a high end vid card alone starts around $300-$400 these days. They have us where it hurts, boys...and I'm willing to fork over, too. My point is: My mom's VW gets to the grocery just fine too...but I'd much rather go in a Porsche. I guess it's all up to preference and what you're into.
For me to upgrade my box in anticipation for Doom 3 and HL2.
I havent upgraded in 3 years, and these games will kill my athlon 1800 GeForce 440mx system.
Im looking into the Athlon FX53 and a gig or two of DDR mem with the new PCIX cards and boards that are coming out...
With any luck, I will be able to play these games and their followers at the highest settings for the next few years to come...
Its either that or update once or twice a year to be able to run the new apps.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
Mine cost less than $2,000, and I can play UT2k4 and others on it just fine."
My computer cost less than $500 and I can play everything just fine, my xbox cost about $150 and I can play everything on that just fine too.
psxndc
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
Who can afford to spend $2000 dollars on a gaming machine?
Amazingly, my computer is now fast enough to run the damned thing, so I thought, "Cool! I'm going to shoot mobsters!"
Well seeing as I'm more than half a decade behind the curve on this one, I'm sure none of this is news to anybody here. But you'll pardon me if I react anyway. .
It wasn't just 'Bullet Time'. I'd have to say that The Matrix owes its very existence to this game. --Plainly put, if Max Payne hadn't been made, the Wachowski Brothers, (er, the Wachowski Brother and Sister) wouldn't have made the Matrix at all.
Even the basic idea of everybody in the world living in a false reality, was clearly inspired by the basic artificality of FPS worlds. --And, I suspect, the hollow-feeling inadequacy of the conspiracy plot story line within Max Payne demanded that the Wachowskys fill in the yawning gap which asked, "What then IS the ultimate conspiracy?".
"Dude! Like what if there really WAS another level to it all!" "Yeah! Oh, duuuuude! I just got the coolest idea for a movie! Like we should totally make one!" (Forgive me. I don't know what the Wachowski family is really like, but I always assumed they talked like the kind of guys who hung out at the 7-11 and played a lot of coin ops.
Every second sequence and visual effect in Max Payne was replicated for the Matrix. You even get to play that crazy Lobby Sequence! And those Agent Smiths? A direct result of FPS characters all looking the same. Even the little glitch-like micro-pauses during game sequences were used. In Max Payne, those little pauses alerted you that, "Some assholes with guns are about to show up". In the Matrix, it was Morpheus intoneing, "They've changed something." --With the same net effect.
The Wachowski siblings basically just re-packaged Max Payne, added an extra layer of creative thinking, and threw in a bunch of Kung Fu.
And thank goodness for that!
This is not a criticism of the first Matrix film. Rather, it's an enthusiastic realization of just how cool it is when you realize the ways in which creators do their thing.
I wonder where Max Payne came from?
-FL
You are either genuine in your beliefs and a bit naive or you are master at the subtle troll message and are in fact mocking the clueless among DIY builders (of the type who might make a career of selling at Future Shop/Best Buy).
...Radeon 9800 non-pro for $150...
I bought my Athlon XP 2200+ and ECS motherboard for $70 from fry's
An Athlon XP 2200+ is certainly an adequate performer and an ECS motherboard will do the job, but the old adage "you get what you pay for" still applies. Buying most ECS boards is like buyng generic at the grocery store--it offers a value price but most often is a pale or slightly-off imitation of a top-tier brand and there will be greater variances in quality. Although the risk is still small, you stand a slightly greater chance of relibility problems (dried out capacitors, cooling problems, etc) and will never win a performance contest with higher quality PCs even with an identical processor.
1 gig of ram for $200 after rebates
A good price yes, but the quality argument could be made again. I myself have had little problem with cheap memory--it works well in an office system or a developmetn database machine. However, if performance and reliability were important I'd spring for faster RAM or ECC RAM from a source with a reputation for quality.
Sounds like a fine choice, but...
Overclocked the cpu to 3200+ speed and flashed the 9800 to a pro.
Sound to me to be "just dumb". I've always thought that in most cases overclocking and modding is of dubious economy, although there are certain times when the argument can be made for its value. The whole point of the art of overclocking is to find good quality components with reputations for having a high tolerance for punishment and push them to their maximums.
Judging from the prices I'd say you probably didn't splurge on cooling, and budget components work fine when used as prescribed but they are cheap because there is less room to manoeuvre--if it is supposed to run at speed 'x' then 'x * 1.1' will be unstable. The same goes with the graphics card. The reason it wasn't sold as a pro with pro firmware is because the hardware either failed tests at that level or wasn't tested at tlat level at all. At any rate, it might be fun to do but you obviously care not a whit about stability and have alot of time to deal with intermittent, annoying glitches.
a decent case + power supply $50,
In this case "decent" and "$50" do not compute. I'm sure it would work fine for a budget PC with onboard graphics and sound and no extra toys (I use such case/power supply deals myself) but if you want high-performance this is a bad choice. If you have extra fans (for overclocking you'd have to at least think of it), add-on cards for high-performance graphics and sound, toys like glowing front panels etc etc. then the power supply is going to fall flat. Plus if you are using quality parts you wouln't house them in a cheap tin box--it'd be like putting a hemi in a K-car.
That's under $800 for a top-of-the-line system, when I got it.
That not a real bad price for a PC, but it's far from top-of-the-line. That and I'd have serious doubts about it's dependability for serious applications with the overclocking and firmware mods you made. Even for gaming, if you were a competitive sort you'd get frustrated when it overheats and locks up or get blown to smithereens because of distorted graphics.
I'd say ditch the hardware/firmware mods and the delusions of high-performance you have and just enjoy your machine for what it is: a pedestrian, mid/value range beige box.
Just yesterday I priced out a very high end gaming machine for $3k (the CPU alone, no monitor / keyboard / mouse etc -- sweet p4 3.4 EE / 2 GB corsair / 2x200GB SATA Raid 0 / heatsink etc. / sweet case / 550 Power / ATI x800 256MB)
That $3k computer worth of parts can only be made possible by knowledge of the system and optimized for performance by mastery of hardware tweaking and overclocking.
The $400 machines for sale on Dell take relatively little knowledge to put together. The expensive machiens by vendors such as Alienware include much more knowledge about the interworkings and optimizations of the individual parts.
Since duplicating this knowledge is free, that is where the profit to be made is.
The only problem I would have with this is the people who will be wasting their money buying these high end gaming machines when they only need the mid range Dell machines.
I wonder how many of us IT guys have convinced marketing that having one of these Alienware systems out on the trade show floor would attract more potential clients? Or that one of these systems would look really nice during a building tour?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
>> -Plainly put, if Max Payne hadn't been made, the Wachowski Brothers, (er, the Wachowski Brother and Sister) wouldn't have made the Matrix at all. ... Except Max Payne was released AFTER the Matrix.
My K6-3 400 (410.4 MHz according to /proc/cpuinfo) works good for me, at least it can run Tux Racer fine and Super Methane Brothers great.
I build PCs, and for $600, I've build some pretty nice machines that are perfectly capable of playing even the latest games - maybe not with everything on, but with a decent feature set at 1024x768. For $600, I have to try to keep the CPU to about $70, HardDisk to $60, Memory to $100, Windows to $100, Video to $150, mobo to $50 (sound and ethernet onboard), and floppy, mouse, keyboard, and case to the other $70. I usually have some give-and-take by scouring pricewatch and Ebay, or saving $20 by using slower memory (one of the lower impacts to games). The sweet-spot is probably closer to $850-$1000 on a new machine, though (spending more on processor, video and hard-disk; for $1000, get a better mobo and case/PSU). After that, you're splurging on stuff you can buy for significantly less in just a few months. Not splurging, however, puts you in the eternal upgrade spiral, which I've been in for about 2 years ;)
Rule 3 - "Make the truth seem unpatriotic, partisan, or political so that it will not be used against you in an argument."
Sounds about right - I mean the rich are getting the bulk of W's tax cuts while everybody (poor and rich) gets to pay for the debt the tax cuts create. Ironic when W said that the bulk of the tax relief his tax plan gives would go to the middle class and poor. I guess that "class war" is an inappropriate term for stealing from the poor to give to the rich...or maybe not.
I should be glad, though...at least I still have a job, and benefits, unlike lots of people. Isn't the Bush economic rally great?
Wow. An AthlonXP-M 2500+ (overclocked, of course), an NForce2 motherboard, some good memory, and a hot video card, and you've got a 3200-class machine w/ brand-new, hot graphics for $1,000, with $400 of that going just to the video card.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I game on both the PC and on a PS2 and I can tell you that the PC is definitely far superior graphics wise right now. Consoles have some big limitations:
1) Consoles still tend to be limited by low-resolution TVs. XBox supports HDTV, but I haven't seen how good it is. Considering the cost of a decent HDTV system + speakers, you can definitely spend more on a high-end console setup than a high end PC setup.
2) Consoles always get a couple of generations behind in video cards. I regularly play Madden 2004 on my PC with a Radeon 9800. When I played in on a PS2 a couple of weekends ago it looked like crap in comparison.
3) Due to cost, consoles are limited in how much RAM is in them. A PS2 has only 32MB of RAM. An XBox has 64 MB This definitely limits things like the size of textures and the size of levels in a game.
That said, I love consoles for their ease of use, variety of games, and their quick play ability. Also, like popcorn movies, sometimes you just want to play something mindless and fun. Consoles are also alot better for groups of people.
Brian
So basically, just reverse everything I said. Not quite as interesting, this way around, though.
-FL
If people want to buy a gaming box they should have a way to know it really will. I would be pissed buying some 'Gaming' machine i saw advertised. Some cheesy box, integrated grphics and all. No different than any other box except they said gaming and add $100 (was a basic $400 for $500)
My second computer ever had a cost of $6,200 with taxes. I love that Gateway Pentium 3 Xeon, RivaTNT2 card, 40GB hard drive, 4x CD Burner. That computer was the shit. My dad said it was enough to run a small country!
I config'd a pretty much maxed-out Shuttle PC (G4 8500, compact enclosure, maxed-out Athlon, etc.) for almost the same specs at $3,389, and that's WITH a 19" Samsung LCD display! They're definitely burying a handsome percentage of profit in all the options...
to pay for top of the line computer parts when 6 months later they will be 60% or less of the price you would have bought them for originally, if you really need that specific system/power then wait 6 months and you will have it for 40% less....
;))
When i first started putting computers together about 5 years ago I would buy some top of the line components and some mid range, now I go all mid range...if a tech jump is coming/has arrived like 64 bit processors or multi cores, then I wait six months after a product is released then buy it.
plus the games that need that stuff to run will be half price by that time anyway...
I might always be 6 months to 1 yr behind my "performance driven" friends, but then I have a lot more money in my pocket also (which translates into more games and extra curricular activities
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Guilty Gear X
Guilty Gear X 2 (XX)
Mobile Light Force 2 (a castrated Shikigami no Shiro)
R-Type Final
Capcom Fighting Jam (soon)
None of these are game collections, and most of them were not "old" games by the time they made it to the U.S. from Japan.
Even Disgaea and La Pucelle Tactics could be called 2D games, because they are largely sprite-driven games set in 3D environments, just like modern 2D shooters. Differentiate between this and fully 3D games that use 2D shading styles, and yeah, they're 2D games, all right.
Sony hardware has ALWAYS sucked when it comes to 2D, and SCEA's history is predominantly anti-2D, but you can't say that they strictly don't let such games through just on principle alone, at least not any more. It used to be that they only wanted games that put the hardware's best foot (3D) forward, but now they just have a fucked idea of what gamers are willing to pay for.
You musn't build many computers, because they take about 15 minutes to put together. Another hour to completely install the OS and anything else.
If your hour and fifteen minutes is worth the extra $2500, then I want your job.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Home theater is a very good example. becouse everybody hears and sees setups better than a movie theater at Best Buy. All they want is to watch the game. On a big HDTV with DVR and 6.1 channel suround sound.
My neibor just did this. he paied $500 for a pro to set up everything for him. Now he has 5 remote controls. He 3 needs just to watch the game. He has no clue how to use any of it. I come over to help. every thing is hooked up the only way they will work together. But in order to watch TV he has to have the TV on the imput labled DVD, and the recever set to CD.
Now if he realy knew how the things worked and chose and put all the peices toghther him self it would work exactly the way he wanted. He wouldnt have to pay $500 to set it up. and most importantly he wouldnt have to call me every week to switch the AMP from AM Tuner back to CD.
So no It's not a problem to want the best. If you know what you REALY want. As the saying go "The Devil is in the Details". In order to make sure you get what you want and not what you ask for. you have to understand how the details work.
When people buy a car. Most spend time reading reviews from those who are mutch smarter about cars. They look at all the options, find out if it will fit in the garage. Will it fit their camping gear. What kind of and how many airbags. Can the passanger bag be disabled for a kid?. but what most dont realise is Computers are 10x as complicated as cars. But they all will work when you turn them on. The diffrence is people know what they want in a car. Most don't know what they want in a computer. They trust the salesmen to tell them what they want.
Don't judge me by my spelling
All of those have models or background elements that are 3D. The gameplay is in a 2D plane, but the graphics aren't. Whoops. Metal Slug is strictly 2D, so no PS2.
Is not for the essentials of the computer, but for neat peripherals like $500+ sound systems.
And the fortunate thing about a lot of peripherals is that unlike the core hardware, they'll last you many years, and are overall one of the best long-term computing investments you can make.
There is no copyright on "running code on hardware X", and the DMCA explicitly allows reverse engineering for purposes of interoperability. When you hear about modchip sellers getting busted, they're usually including hacked versions of copyrighted BIOSes with the chips, which IS a copyright violation.
-insert a witty something-
Ok i got a 2.4ghz 1024mb ram 128mb video machine i got 2 years ago for about $5000.
Today this machine still rocks and will continue to work for a while longer. Part of buying the top (or almost top) end machine means that you arent upgrading all the time, and the bragging rights that come along with it for about 6months;)
I just priced out a VERY decent system for a guy I work with-- Not "TOP" end but VERY capable.
Athlon XP Mobile 2600+ . Unlocked by definition.
47W. Totally overclockable.
250G SATA WD
512M Hyperx ram (2x256M)
Antec Super Lan Boy case
420 W Antec "True Power" supply
Thermalright SP97 (needs "neo" backplate)
(At "stock" clockspeeds, could likely run passive)
DFI LAnparty Ultra400 Gonzo whatever...
(2xATA,4xSATA, etc)
Generic 8x DVD +/- RW
+misc stuff.
Anyway, as of last week, EXCEPT for the video card, it came in just under $500.
I suspect he could get a good video card for $300.
One could also get XP Pro for $150 ish from Frys IIRC with the above hardware.
(I did not pick a card for hoim as prices are in free fall, he is NOT a hardcore gamer, and a GF4 MX400 64M would probably be fine for $69)
you know Tim "the tool man" Taylor there motto is MORE POWER!!! just becouse they can.
$1600 LAPTOP
;P
Plays UT2004 at 1680x1050 easily
Gotta love the value of a Radeon 9600 Mobile
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
I must disagree with you. Putting together every single most expensive and/or powerful items on the market doesn't take that much knowledge about optimizing a gaming rig.
It's when you start out with a budget, say 1500 $, and try to build the most powerful machine under that constraint that optimization knowledge really shines. You need to ponder whether more RAM is better than CPU power or if getting RAID 0/0+1 is worth more.
Intelligence shared is intelligence squared.
Do you think people care about spoiled rich boys and their little toys? Read Marcuse's the One-Dimensional man some day. Actually, do not read it, you are a one-dimensional man, so why bother reading about yourself.
If cars to you are merely for moving people, then you can be content with what car you have. But if a car is an object of social status, you will be like those people on Mtv Cribs with a garage full of seven expensive custom cars, because too much is never enough for those chasing social status. Mike Tyson was making 20 million a fight and still went bankrupt. To use money for social status and to maintain an entourage is very expensive! Becareful rich boy and do not spend too much on expensive toys that you most likely could do without. Even the richest of men can go bankrupt chasing never ending heights of higher social status, and the latest neat toys.
No, really. People with insufficient brains will simply turn to their beloved idiot-box and put some game-console on it.
;)
People with lots of brains find enjoyment in building their own PCs, to their exact specs.
Ok, the comment about the console-users wasn't nice, but I hate TVs, so you'll surely forgive me
But seriously... where's the market? And if you really do want to buy a pre-built thing simply out of lazyness, well there are plenty of companies out there already, like Alienware.
Besides, if you want a seriously good gaming PC and you're willing to pay for it, get a computer-savy friend to do it for you. He'll ask less, and still make a nice fat profit. And his PC will be better than anything you buy in a store.
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
The thing is, while games for nintendo systems, especially games produced by nintendo themselves, tend to be very refined and lots of fun, they are rarely revolutionary.
Donkey Kong- Created the demand for the coin op industry beyond Space Invaders
Super Mario Brothers- changed sidescrollers to adventure games.
Metroid and Metroid Prime- changed the objectives and styles of almost all of the titles in the adventure genre. Allowed fighting to be incorporated into a adventure title effectively.
Zelda series- opened up long form adventure from the Zorg era to the adventure era.
Mario 64- showed a 3D platformer that acutally works well enough to not annoy you to death.
Goldeneye- Issued in the console FPS as an alternatice to PC for FPS fans.
Pikmin- truly original and fun, must be experienced to understand
F-zero - the fastest and most maddening racing game, EVER. Period.
Besides all of that, Nintendo started connectivity to your portable, a slew of failed technologies that were at least ballsy like the Virtual Boy (a failure, but not conceptually), and four controllers for your console. It has spawned more come-and-gone genres than Xbox and PS2 have right now.
Look you can say a lot about Nintendo, but saying that they are not revolutionary is really uninformed. They built the home console industry.
Look, you need to face facts that the reason why more people buy PS2s and the Xbox is because THEY LIKE SPORTS GAMES. Sports games drive the PS2... and honestly, they are highly unoriginal... "Hey guys! This version has John Madden 'Crazy mode' where he gets drunk and rambles on it! $49.99!" Most PS2 owners I know have three games, they have a Madden, GTA, and Vice City. That is not original. What do they plan on purchasing? Madden and GTA.
Look, say what you will about Nintendo, and how it is getting "eaten alive," but Nintendo is a single corportation that is getting attacked by the two largest, cash rich software/media companies on the planet. Realisticly, Nintendo is stronger than it ever was. It is just that Sony and Microsoft know that games are the new exclusive entertainment of our generation, and they need to OWN THIS MARKET PERMANENTLY. That means money no object. Both Sony and Microsoft have stolen developers out from under 'Tendo for BILLIONS. Yes, billions with a 'B.' Now tell me Nintendo is not competetive when the competition does a cash buyout of your friends for a checks that add up to billions.
Lets see how your little company would do against the two premiere "endless money" giants. Two corporations that didn't start by making playing cards and childrens toys, but instead showed up because they had BILLIONS in their back pocket.
When you think about that, Nintendo might be the scrappiest and toughest company on the planet.
Half the fun of a new PC is building it yourself. I just (in november )built a $3k machine for a guy who claims he is an addict. He wanted top notch everything radeon 9800 AIW pro. p4 2.8, RAID, 1 Gig corsair dual channel ddr 3700, xp pro (couldn't convince him of something "better"), sb audigy platin zx 2 (or somethin like that.. model names theese days....), and a nice 550w powersupply that made his Lanboy case weigh in @ an extra gazillion pounds. Point being... His machine is still very top of the line, his tech support is awesome, his price was rock bottom (@ the time it was, and still is very comprable.) His machine made a joke out of Fart Cry, and UT2k4 is sweet @ 1600x 1200
All I can say is I am jealous, my pc is a weak 2.53 ghz p4 w/ only 512 ram, and an old geforce 3 ti500 no raid, no dual channel, old a$$ soundcard.
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
Exactly
Obviously putting the most powerful components on the market doesn't require the most intelligence.
However, most of the better pieces of equipment out there put together form a nice launching point for the top of the line gaming computers.
For the most part the better equipment is more expensive. Companies such as Alienware, if I remember correctly, know so much about the high end equipment they use that they have written advanced drivers and utilities to help the customer get the last x% out of their systems.
This is where the knowledge and advanced support comes into account.
I agree with you fully, the most difficult system is a mid range system that is required for say "video editing, and basic office tasks" but has a tight budget. When you have to swap out the processor for faster ram, or perhaps decide that the power supply at 300W can suffice as opposed to the 450 originally planned, is when building computers becomes a challenge.
Word to the wise; don't buy the sequel. It's lost the whole mythical angle to just become a film noir type story. Well made game, but just turned into another brain-dead shoot-em-up. It disappointed me with the shift back from supernatural to rehashed "we've seen it all 1000 times before" b-movie material. The original is way superior in story.