most households will already have a desktop PC that's fairly recent - even if it's just a basic retail model that was bought for the kids to do their homework on.
And what happens when someone wants to do homework while someone is playing a game. This is why some of us think more numerous cheaper special purpose devices are better than ONE expensive versatile device.
a Geforce 750Ti will handle todays games at 1080p while working within a 60W power envelope.
It can, but it has fewer compute units than the PS4's GPU does. There were also 750 variants that DO require a 6 pin power connection. Households with basic retail models are probably not going to have the knowledge of choosing or even installing such a card. Slashdot, is not the masses.
Not really, since most of the GoG games are Win95+ vintage, not 256K DOS vintage. The oldest game in GoG's top 20 is from 1999.
Also, what are you going to do when your special SKU PS3 dies? You can't get replacements.
Nope, but SCEA will repair it. The only thing I worry about in the thing is the blu-ray drive, since the hard drive is user replaceable (and in fact, I've upgraded that). I've got a functional SCPH 50001 model PS2 sitting around too, those things are built like tanks.
You don't use most applications on the console. Do you use excel? audacity?
As a matter of fact..... I have used OO Calc and Audacity on a PS3.
Use it for your email?
I have. Kmail, Thunderbird, claws-mail. On both the PS2 and PS3. I could now if I stuck to webmail, thanks to the PS3 and PS4's web browser. The vita has an e-mail app already. There is nothing stopping Sony from slapping up versions of OO or Audacity compiled for the standard PS4 OS on PSN. Hell, their video editing app is based on ffmpeg!
I think it was Gabe Newall who did a technical write up on that issue when discussion getting PC players and Console playing together. The solution? make PC client slower. In effect lower PC's to console level
On a PC response times is quicker.
That was entirely due to mouse-aiming being easy-mode. That's what the old-timer FPS's called the first mouse-aiming FPS's..."easy mode". That was also due to the platform involved, (Dreamcast) which wasn't one of the consoles that support mutliple input methods. Also...Gabe isn't entirely neutral on the issue since his company is tied to the PC.
That's right and PSN+ too, but you get something for that besides online gaming...you get freebies tossed in.
and your games are more expensive.
No, they aren't. Same price, at least here in the US. Dragon Age Inquisition, the game this entire discussion is about, is the exact same price on EVERY platform, PC/PS4/XboxOne/PS3/360
if you only buy games from online sales
If you're wondering the reason why the PC version of many games is an afterthought...it's guys like you. The "I only buy games for $5 at steam sales"...cheapskates who then complain when the PC version comes out later or isn't optimized. It's the people paying $59 who subsidize the development, not you.
Do you actually play games that old, or is that just something you brag about as a member of the supposed "Master Race".
Hell, I've got a CECHE PS3, I could play everything back to 1995. As much as I liked PSone Diablo and FFVII, most of my time spent on the PS3 was spent playing PS3 games.
PLUS all the old arcade and console games too.
Yeah, if you pirate them, you can install emulators on consoles with custom firmware too, but really how many NES games on your PC do you actually play?
When I buy a new gen console I have to get all new games.
Nothing is stopping you from playing the old games on the old console. You buy the newer stuff for the newer console.
Or, if you had one of the nice CECHA/CECHB/CECHE PS3's, you just used all your PSOne/PS2 discs in it as well.
But really, how many older games do you actually play. Yeah you may say "I install LOOM on my Win8 machine" but do you actually play the older stuff, but only do that to brag about your library.
Nothing like schooling some console bitches. WASD, motherfucker, do you speak it?
Yes, we speak it. We've spoken it ever since the PS2. However, WASD is an inferior control method for movement.
The guy after me recommends the G13, that's not a bad idea, that gives you hybrid controls. Which as any PS2/PS3/PS4 owner can tell you, work well for some games. You use the stick to move, but the mouse to aim.
That's not quite true, the PS3 and PS4 support 7.1 and yes there are games with true 7.1 audio on the PS3. It's why Skyrim is 3.6GB on the 360 and 10GB on the PS3, it supports Dolby Digital, DTS, 5.1 LPCM and 7.1 LPCM
ALL the content is provided by a gaming PC that cost £600 4 years ago
UK gamers are notoriously anti-console thanks to the UK governments protectionism to favor Sinclair and keep the Americans and Japanese out.
Considering the Steam hardware survey...more like high-range. Take a look at the most common graphics cards, CPU's and whatnot. Dual-core is the most common with the most common graphics card being an Intel integrated one.
PDF was a proprietary format, controlled by Adobe, until it was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO 32000-1:2008,
The fact that they used a Mac to create the PDF is a slightly more valid complaint. Note I said slightly.
[CronoCloud ~]$ pdfinfo Linux-Voice-Issue-001.pdf Creator: Adobe InDesign CC (Macintosh) Producer: Adobe PDF Library 11.0 CreationDate: Mon Feb 24 09:37:35 2014 ModDate: Mon Feb 24 09:38:21 2014 Syntax Error: Invalid object stream Tagged: no Form: none Pages: 116 Encrypted: no Page size: 595.276 x 841.89 pts (A4) Page rot: 0 File size: 63849602 bytes Optimized: yes PDF version: 1.4
My guess it was an "affluent suburb or city magnet school" thing. Meaning the sort of school a stereotypical slashdotter might have attended, which is why quite a few have said they had access to it.
They're probably kind of guys who's father had a tech job who got them an account on their workplace's unix box, who got a Vic20, a C64 the next year and a PC clone the year after.
They got PLATO, but god forbid you live in a small town or rural area without a university to put PLATO in the local school.
As an example certain famous geeks had privileged/early access to technology:
It's easier to become a "worm-making unix-genius" when you have your own unix account when you're in junior high, given to you by your father who worked for Bell Labs.
They told me that they could remove the line item, but that wifi would no longer work in my home. Laughable nonsense. I called their bluff and my bill dropped $10.
They weren't bluffing and it's not actually laughable nonsense. Many cable companies supply cable modems that ARE wi-fi routers as well as being a cable modem. The local cable company supplies them by default now. They probably assumed you had that kind of equipment and didn't have a note in your file stating you supplied your own equipment.
They didn't steal from you, they charged you for something they weren't giving you.
They probably thought they WERE giving it to him since many cable modems these days also serve as wi-fi routers. The local cable company installs a wi-fi capable router by default with new installs these days, and they charge for that feature. Don't want it? They give you a standard non-gateway cable modem, and don't charge the fee.
On Eurogamer? You can't trust those "Euro-gamers" they tend to be PC Master Race guys, especially if all they got is a beta, or test release. They also don't tend to update their old information properly if they made mistake or a patch fixes an issue.
Destiny targets 30fps because it's cross-platform with the previous generation. And some people prefer more resolution to frame rate. I personally can tolerate 30fps, that was the SDTV frame rate after all. Anything above that is gravy.
on latest gen console games not being able to hit 1080p at 30FPS, just goggle and you'll pull up enough of them. Many games are rendering out at 720p or other resolutions and using a scaler to scale it up to 1080p for display - but it's still just a 720p render.
I've seen a few such things, but mostly about early releases/preliminary code on the Xbox One. But...it doesn't matter if the game renders at 720p....if the game is fun. many PC Gamers focus too much on the technology and the specs, and not on the GAMES. If it's about the games, and the game is fun everything else doesn't matter.
It looks like laptops and low spec general purpose machines are dragging those scores down.
Yep, that's what it looked like to me too.
I guess the point I'm making is that if a person so chooses they can enjoy the benefits of a gaming rig that is much better than the latest gen consoles.
Yes, that's always been the case, but the problem is cost/benefit ratio. There is a point of diminshing returns, and most people have a finite "tech toy" budget. One can spend $1500 on just a gaming rig, or $400 on a console AND $1000 on games.
The thing is, with PC gaming, you're not restricted in the same way as a console.
I'm running a pair of GTX 670s at present on a i7 3770k
That i7 itself costs $299. The two 670's are what...$260 each? That's over $800 right there. 980's are $560...each, sometimes more.
I'm not having to run my games at 720p or lower like many console games just to hit the target of 30FPS.
How is it a restriction? You're guaranteed that any game with the name of $console on the label works on your machine for the next 5 - 13 years with no further hardware purchases. Do you know when the last PSone game was released in the US? 2005. The last PS2 game was released in September...of last year. That would be like releasing a game that runs on a PII 300 last year.
I'm not having to run my games at 720p or lower like many console games just to hit the target of 30FPS.
For some PS3 games that's the case, but not for the current consoles.
In five years time, console players will still likely be stuck on the same hardware as they have today, so that limits the games they can play.
In the old days of the NES, SNES, even the PSone, that may have been the came but it isn't now. Now games tend to be cross-platform, so 5 or more years later, they're still playing the same games everyone else is. They released Destiny on the PS3/360 as well as the PS4/Xbox One for goodness sake. So keeping the same hardware for 5 years isn't a limit, it saves you money for games. Games designed for the hardware you have, not the hardware you don't have like the original Crysis was for the PC.
The one gotcha here is that iOS app publishers aren't allowed to use "demo" in the title or description
I didn't know that. What about Android?
Would it be enough to use the following in the description? "This app contains the first few hours of the game, which take place in Midgar. The rest of the game is available as a one-time in-app purchase of $x.xx."
Good question! I would consider your example to be "fair", since it's basically acting as a Demo. As long as one was straightforward/honest on the free version being a "Mako Reactor to Midgar exit Demo"
Sure maybe a few enthusiasts have a high end rig, but the faceless LoL/TF2 playing masses are running on things that are lightweight compared to a PS4.
Slashdot Mirror
most households will already have a desktop PC that's fairly recent - even if it's just a basic retail model that was bought for the kids to do their homework on.
And what happens when someone wants to do homework while someone is playing a game. This is why some of us think more numerous cheaper special purpose devices are better than ONE expensive versatile device.
a Geforce 750Ti will handle todays games at 1080p while working within a 60W power envelope.
It can, but it has fewer compute units than the PS4's GPU does. There were also 750 variants that DO require a 6 pin power connection. Households with basic retail models are probably not going to have the knowledge of choosing or even installing such a card. Slashdot, is not the masses.
The success of gog.com says you're wrong.
Not really, since most of the GoG games are Win95+ vintage, not 256K DOS vintage. The oldest game in GoG's top 20 is from 1999.
Also, what are you going to do when your special SKU PS3 dies? You can't get replacements.
Nope, but SCEA will repair it. The only thing I worry about in the thing is the blu-ray drive, since the hard drive is user replaceable (and in fact, I've upgraded that). I've got a functional SCPH 50001 model PS2 sitting around too, those things are built like tanks.
Doubt it. Xbox 360 games cost how much?
The same price as games for other platforms?
Controllers cost how much?
I don't know, mine came with my PS3/PS4.
Batteries for your wireless controllers?
Never had to replace controller batteries.
Live subscription?
PS+ 49.95 a year. Gets you a ton of games in the "Instant Game Library. It's why it was popular on the PS3.
Wifi dongle?
What is this you speak of, the PS3 and PS4 do not need such things.
You don't use most applications on the console. Do you use excel? audacity?
As a matter of fact..... I have used OO Calc and Audacity on a PS3.
Use it for your email?
I have. Kmail, Thunderbird, claws-mail. On both the PS2 and PS3. I could now if I stuck to webmail, thanks to the PS3 and PS4's web browser. The vita has an e-mail app already. There is nothing stopping Sony from slapping up versions of OO or Audacity compiled for the standard PS4 OS on PSN. Hell, their video editing app is based on ffmpeg!
http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps4/L...
I think it was Gabe Newall who did a technical write up on that issue when discussion getting PC players and Console playing together. The solution? make PC client slower. In effect lower PC's to console level
On a PC response times is quicker.
That was entirely due to mouse-aiming being easy-mode. That's what the old-timer FPS's called the first mouse-aiming FPS's..."easy mode". That was also due to the platform involved, (Dreamcast) which wasn't one of the consoles that support mutliple input methods. Also...Gabe isn't entirely neutral on the issue since his company is tied to the PC.
You pay for xbox live
That's right and PSN+ too, but you get something for that besides online gaming...you get freebies tossed in.
and your games are more expensive.
No, they aren't. Same price, at least here in the US. Dragon Age Inquisition, the game this entire discussion is about, is the exact same price on EVERY platform, PC/PS4/XboxOne/PS3/360
if you only buy games from online sales
If you're wondering the reason why the PC version of many games is an afterthought...it's guys like you. The "I only buy games for $5 at steam sales"...cheapskates who then complain when the PC version comes out later or isn't optimized. It's the people paying $59 who subsidize the development, not you.
Also, consider that a computer is needed anyway.
Who says?
Sure, you had 7 SPUs,
Six. the seventh is reserved for the hypervisor. (Actualy it's 8, but one is disabled for yield)
but hardly any games used them, instead using the 2 PPUs instead
ONE PPU, but it's hyperthreaded, with an Altivec unit.
That was from back when I still had Linux on my PS3.
Do you actually play games that old, or is that just something you brag about as a member of the supposed "Master Race".
Hell, I've got a CECHE PS3, I could play everything back to 1995. As much as I liked PSone Diablo and FFVII, most of my time spent on the PS3 was spent playing PS3 games.
PLUS all the old arcade and console games too.
Yeah, if you pirate them, you can install emulators on consoles with custom firmware too, but really how many NES games on your PC do you actually play?
That's $322 dollars right there, without storage, without power supply, without RAM, without motherboard.
When I buy a new gen console I have to get all new games.
Nothing is stopping you from playing the old games on the old console. You buy the newer stuff for the newer console.
Or, if you had one of the nice CECHA/CECHB/CECHE PS3's, you just used all your PSOne/PS2 discs in it as well.
But really, how many older games do you actually play. Yeah you may say "I install LOOM on my Win8 machine" but do you actually play the older stuff, but only do that to brag about your library.
Nothing like schooling some console bitches. WASD, motherfucker, do you speak it?
Yes, we speak it. We've spoken it ever since the PS2. However, WASD is an inferior control method for movement.
The guy after me recommends the G13, that's not a bad idea, that gives you hybrid controls. Which as any PS2/PS3/PS4 owner can tell you, work well for some games. You use the stick to move, but the mouse to aim.
Infact the consoles only support 5.1,
That's not quite true, the PS3 and PS4 support 7.1 and yes there are games with true 7.1 audio on the PS3. It's why Skyrim is 3.6GB on the 360 and 10GB on the PS3, it supports Dolby Digital, DTS, 5.1 LPCM and 7.1 LPCM
ALL the content is provided by a gaming PC that cost £600 4 years ago
UK gamers are notoriously anti-console thanks to the UK governments protectionism to favor Sinclair and keep the Americans and Japanese out.
Considering the Steam hardware survey...more like high-range. Take a look at the most common graphics cards, CPU's and whatnot. Dual-core is the most common with the most common graphics card being an Intel integrated one.
PDF is an open standard, has been since 2008. Didn't you get the memo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
PDF was a proprietary format, controlled by Adobe, until it was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO 32000-1:2008,
The fact that they used a Mac to create the PDF is a slightly more valid complaint. Note I said slightly.
My guess it was an "affluent suburb or city magnet school" thing. Meaning the sort of school a stereotypical slashdotter might have attended, which is why quite a few have said they had access to it.
They're probably kind of guys who's father had a tech job who got them an account on their workplace's unix box, who got a Vic20, a C64 the next year and a PC clone the year after.
They got PLATO, but god forbid you live in a small town or rural area without a university to put PLATO in the local school.
As an example certain famous geeks had privileged/early access to technology:
Gates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
Stallman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
Robert Morris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
Reading this book will give you more details on RTM's tech privileged childhood: http://www.amazon.com/CYBERPUN...
It's easier to become a "worm-making unix-genius" when you have your own unix account when you're in junior high, given to you by your father who worked for Bell Labs.
but those abilities are hobbled on all current phones unless you root them.
Not everyone has gone cell phone only, one can record calls on POTS phones quite easily.
They told me that they could remove the line item, but that wifi would no longer work in my home. Laughable nonsense. I called their bluff and my bill dropped $10.
They weren't bluffing and it's not actually laughable nonsense. Many cable companies supply cable modems that ARE wi-fi routers as well as being a cable modem. The local cable company supplies them by default now. They probably assumed you had that kind of equipment and didn't have a note in your file stating you supplied your own equipment.
They didn't steal from you, they charged you for something they weren't giving you.
They probably thought they WERE giving it to him since many cable modems these days also serve as wi-fi routers. The local cable company installs a wi-fi capable router by default with new installs these days, and they charge for that feature. Don't want it? They give you a standard non-gateway cable modem, and don't charge the fee.
There's been several articles
On Eurogamer? You can't trust those "Euro-gamers" they tend to be PC Master Race guys, especially if all they got is a beta, or test release. They also don't tend to update their old information properly if they made mistake or a patch fixes an issue.
Destiny targets 30fps because it's cross-platform with the previous generation. And some people prefer more resolution to frame rate. I personally can tolerate 30fps, that was the SDTV frame rate after all. Anything above that is gravy.
on latest gen console games not being able to hit 1080p at 30FPS, just goggle and you'll pull up enough of them. Many games are rendering out at 720p or other resolutions and using a scaler to scale it up to 1080p for display - but it's still just a 720p render.
I've seen a few such things, but mostly about early releases/preliminary code on the Xbox One. But...it doesn't matter if the game renders at 720p....if the game is fun. many PC Gamers focus too much on the technology and the specs, and not on the GAMES. If it's about the games, and the game is fun everything else doesn't matter.
It looks like laptops and low spec general purpose machines are dragging those scores down.
Yep, that's what it looked like to me too.
I guess the point I'm making is that if a person so chooses they can enjoy the benefits of a gaming rig that is much better than the latest gen consoles.
Yes, that's always been the case, but the problem is cost/benefit ratio. There is a point of diminshing returns, and most people have a finite "tech toy" budget. One can spend $1500 on just a gaming rig, or $400 on a console AND $1000 on games.
The thing is, with PC gaming, you're not restricted in the same way as a console.
I'm running a pair of GTX 670s at present on a i7 3770k
That i7 itself costs $299. The two 670's are what...$260 each? That's over $800 right there. 980's are $560...each, sometimes more.
I'm not having to run my games at 720p or lower like many console games just to hit the target of 30FPS.
How is it a restriction? You're guaranteed that any game with the name of $console on the label works on your machine for the next 5 - 13 years with no further hardware purchases. Do you know when the last PSone game was released in the US? 2005. The last PS2 game was released in September...of last year. That would be like releasing a game that runs on a PII 300 last year.
I'm not having to run my games at 720p or lower like many console games just to hit the target of 30FPS.
For some PS3 games that's the case, but not for the current consoles.
In five years time, console players will still likely be stuck on the same hardware as they have today, so that limits the games they can play.
In the old days of the NES, SNES, even the PSone, that may have been the came but it isn't now. Now games tend to be cross-platform, so 5 or more years later, they're still playing the same games everyone else is. They released Destiny on the PS3/360 as well as the PS4/Xbox One for goodness sake. So keeping the same hardware for 5 years isn't a limit, it saves you money for games. Games designed for the hardware you have, not the hardware you don't have like the original Crysis was for the PC.
The one gotcha here is that iOS app publishers aren't allowed to use "demo" in the title or description
I didn't know that. What about Android?
Would it be enough to use the following in the description? "This app contains the first few hours of the game, which take place in Midgar. The rest of the game is available as a one-time in-app purchase of $x.xx."
That would be enough for me.
Good question! I would consider your example to be "fair", since it's basically acting as a Demo. As long as one was straightforward/honest on the free version being a "Mako Reactor to Midgar exit Demo"
Perhaps on consoles, but I though we were talking about high performance machines, not the dinky little things the bro's play on ^^
/me is not a bro.
Consoles are great value for money, but they're pretty lightweight compared to a decent PC rig.
Might want to check out the steam hardware survey on the "rigs" that are actually used.
http://store.steampowered.com/...
Sure maybe a few enthusiasts have a high end rig, but the faceless LoL/TF2 playing masses are running on things that are lightweight compared to a PS4.
Actually Sony has a fully supported OpenGL 4.1 implementation for the Playstation 4.
They do? Thanks for the correction.
We "FreeBSD cough*PS4" owners get cookies? No one told me. And while my PS4 may not have SystemD, my Fedora 20 box does....I don't mind it.
Just tried Warthunder on Linux
The Linux version is out? Excellent. I play on the PS4, but I, for one, welcome our new Linux using War Thunder overlords.
(As an aside, I run Fedora 20 on my PC, and my first introduction to Linux was via the PS2 Linux kit.)