My thinking is this: the government spends a certain amount. They want to bring in that amount (modulo whatever it chalks up to the deficit). Just like banks write off uncollectable debts, the USG can write off taxes it ought to be collecting but actually isn't. And just like a bank, it has to charge everyone else a bit extra to make up for it. I do believe that if it collected everything it "deserved" then it could afford to lower taxes. Call me a dreamer.
Heck, right now the government has claimed to "lower" our taxes, and it hasn't even closed all the loopholes and caught all the cheats. And the deficit's ballooning. If it took in more, even if it didn't lower our taxes as a direct result, this would reduce the deficit, and improve our situation down the road. Right?
Don't forget the issue of how such a change affects the current tax system. People who buy homes believing that mortgage interest and property taxes are deductible will be in deep doo-doo if they're not.
I'm not saying the system is fair the way it is now, only that changes like this can't happen overnight without turmoil.
Others may flame you, but all I can say is that you took the words out of my keyboard. These sorts of correlations seem reasonable, and if they cut down on the cheats, maybe the honest people will be taxed a little less.
That might be overkill, though I wouldn't object. A simpler question is why the timekeeping system should accept anything but extremely occasional corrections on the part of managers. I can see managers having to "correct" time on occasion, but if the corrections are consistently in favor of the company, this should raise a red flag.
Oh yeah, it's these crooks who designed the systems to allow this sort of stuff.
Their PR team provided some quotes and the CEO of our company picked the ones he liked and attached his name to them.
Yeah, but isn't this case more like the PR team from your company attaching the CEO of someone else's company to their own quotes?
Sure, if that person then agrees, it's OK, and I'm sure that's done too. But it does devalue such testimonials a bit in my eyes.
The issues with evolving Word files using version tracking also come up with web pages, since there are
tools to track changes to web pages (for instance, WebCQ).
When a projected date changes, it can be pretty embarrassing. I've seen projected Ph.D. graduation dates slip in six-month increments, huge price changes, policy changes, and so on.
The key difference here is that the
tracking reveals internal versions that were obviously never meant to be public. The idea that a
draft would attribute a quote to a nameless executive is particularly appalling!
I have to disagree here. Especially in storage (look at IceCube as an example), there's all sorts of good things going on, and that have gone on in the past (like magnetic disks).
I wasn't saying they weren't jumping. I was responding to the first part of your statement, not the second:
Nobody's who is looking for a job has a clean and happy employment history. Either we've been dumped, or for some reason want to dump our employer.
Someone can have a clean and happy history yet choose to dump because of the future outlook rather than anything negative in the past. I know lots of people at companies that used to be doing great, but are now struggling. At the point where the company goes down the tubes, there's at least an instant where my comment applies. The rest of the time, sure, the job sucks.
By the way, there can also be other factors that lead to jumping jobs. For instance, a spouse who relocates.
The Brucia case is exactly what came to my mind here. If more cameras would make people think "gee, I'd better not abduct an 11-yr-old from the street because they'll catch me," it sounds pretty good to me.
The downside is that we get to watch this disturbing footage again and again. Same was true last time I was in England and they were showing a car pulling up to a parking space, time passing, and then the car exploding. I just wanted to turn the TV off...
I remember in the 1980s, there was a gag system to which one could pose a question and get back an answer. To get the answer, one first had to answer another question in the system. Not real-time, but worked fine in the steady state, and was a real hoot. Some people wasted almost as much time coming up with good Oracle answers as we all do posting to Slashdot....
Education's not the answer but it can be an answer. I have a Ph.D., and while I was laid off, I found another position quickly, as did nearly all the others in the same boat at the same time. I doubt the unemployment for C.S. Ph.D.'s is anywhere near the level for B.S.-level IT workers... but that's just an assumption. If anyone has statistics they would be interesting to see.
I grant that someone's response to this earlier, that when they're already unemployed they may not be in a position to go back for another degree, is certainly fair. But for those who are thinking about it, this might help tip the scales.
So this gets back to the people who said that Google does it right. Ebay simply needs to index all words with the same first & last letters when someone searches for it. I ask for plain paper faxes and get porn pleaser fetishes....
Note the steel industry. If world war 3 starts, and we can't make steel, because we've been buying it from our enemy for the last 2 decades how we would survive. Steel _has_ to stay in our country for our own survival,
Excellent point, and one that certainly applies to aspects of the IT industry. There have been SF novels with the premise that another country inflicts economic havoc on the US by attacking its IT infrastructure... which if it had a hand in building, would be a whole lot easier.
My point in the original post was to say that there needs to be such reasons, beyond simple economics. You just thoughtfully offered two: national security and fairhandedness (what some would call America First). Let's all hope that decency plays a part in such decisions, and not just the Almighty Buck. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be the single factor since the IT downturn.
Good points. I work for such a large company with "offshore" R&D. My take on it is that thus far, the non-US "research centers" are more D than R in the areas with the cheapest labor, but I'm sure that will change over time.
Thus far, I think there's a definite correlation between higher education in this field and higher pay. I'm surprised by another post in this thread about testimony about how one is better off going straight to work. When I got my Ph.D. I'm sure I started higher than I would have been paid with 6 years of programming experience. Of course, I had foregone a "decent" salary for those years. But after a few more years I'm confident that the higher salary more than made up for it, and I had more fun too.
This doesn't make it any easier for those seeking work, of course. Not too long ago it was virtually unheard of for a CS research lab to lay people off, and now it's a fixture. I fell victim to this myself. Do I fear a repeat down the road, only this time so that I can be replaced by someone in a cheaper economy? Not in the near future, but certainly down the road. I just have to prepare for the possibility as best I can, and also strive to be one of those who are kept despite such a transition.
Point noted. But lots of people, even with families, get graduate degrees. In a CS Ph.D. program, a student usually gets enough support from teaching or research not to starve, though most don't exactly go to Club Med either. Usually, in the case of the students with families, one spouse works while the other is in school. If one spouse stays at home, probably with young kids, then a grad student stipend won't cut it for a family, and the student needs to work during the day and take evening classes. I have several coworkers doing just that.
This article was very thought-provoking. I know someone who left the USA to return to India and start an outsourcing company in the mid-90s, before it was fashionable. I never thought he'd be so successful, but it's clear this model has taken off. In the end, Americans who cry foul have to offer a reason for cost-conscious companies to employ them instead of offshore alternatives. This article demonstrates the opposite -- the effectiveness and quality of these cheaper alternatives.
In the end, I do think it'll be a while before the "highest level" of IT (such as research labs) find comparable counterparts at that deep a discount. People who are worried about their job moving offshore should think about how they can do things that can't move as easily, perhaps by increasing their education (MS/PhD)...
Slashdot Mirror
Heck, right now the government has claimed to "lower" our taxes, and it hasn't even closed all the loopholes and caught all the cheats. And the deficit's ballooning. If it took in more, even if it didn't lower our taxes as a direct result, this would reduce the deficit, and improve our situation down the road. Right?
I'm not saying the system is fair the way it is now, only that changes like this can't happen overnight without turmoil.
Others may flame you, but all I can say is that you took the words out of my keyboard. These sorts of correlations seem reasonable, and if they cut down on the cheats, maybe the honest people will be taxed a little less.
Oh yeah, it's these crooks who designed the systems to allow this sort of stuff.
I didn't say the testimonials had a high value to begin with ... only that they have even less value when the truth comes out. OK, OK, I was naive!
Yeah, but isn't this case more like the PR team from your company attaching the CEO of someone else's company to their own quotes? Sure, if that person then agrees, it's OK, and I'm sure that's done too. But it does devalue such testimonials a bit in my eyes.
The key difference here is that the tracking reveals internal versions that were obviously never meant to be public. The idea that a draft would attribute a quote to a nameless executive is particularly appalling!
Don't you wish we had the same thing for White House internal memoranda?
Then why is it acting like it's been slashdotted as this posting came out?
I have to disagree here. Especially in storage (look at IceCube as an example), there's all sorts of good things going on, and that have gone on in the past (like magnetic disks).
... All 20 of them.
I still go there occasionally to reprint the spicy sesame beef recipe, which I started making in the mid 1980s.
Oops, sorry, the first comment to which I responded didn't come from the person to whom I just replied. Strike "your statement" :)
Nobody's who is looking for a job has a clean and happy employment history. Either we've been dumped, or for some reason want to dump our employer.
Someone can have a clean and happy history yet choose to dump because of the future outlook rather than anything negative in the past. I know lots of people at companies that used to be doing great, but are now struggling. At the point where the company goes down the tubes, there's at least an instant where my comment applies. The rest of the time, sure, the job sucks.
By the way, there can also be other factors that lead to jumping jobs. For instance, a spouse who relocates.
You're overgeneralizing. There are actually people who have a job, are willing to leave, but aren't desperate.
The downside is that we get to watch this disturbing footage again and again. Same was true last time I was in England and they were showing a car pulling up to a parking space, time passing, and then the car exploding. I just wanted to turn the TV off...
Ohmigod... it lives....
I remember in the 1980s, there was a gag system to which one could pose a question and get back an answer. To get the answer, one first had to answer another question in the system. Not real-time, but worked fine in the steady state, and was a real hoot. Some people wasted almost as much time coming up with good Oracle answers as we all do posting to Slashdot....
I grant that someone's response to this earlier, that when they're already unemployed they may not be in a position to go back for another degree, is certainly fair. But for those who are thinking about it, this might help tip the scales.
So this gets back to the people who said that Google does it right. Ebay simply needs to index all words with the same first & last letters when someone searches for it. I ask for plain paper faxes and get porn pleaser fetishes....
Lobby for more education spending. It's a travesty how crummy the typical education is in the USA, considering the overall standard of living.
Excellent point, and one that certainly applies to aspects of the IT industry. There have been SF novels with the premise that another country inflicts economic havoc on the US by attacking its IT infrastructure... which if it had a hand in building, would be a whole lot easier.
My point in the original post was to say that there needs to be such reasons, beyond simple economics. You just thoughtfully offered two: national security and fairhandedness (what some would call America First). Let's all hope that decency plays a part in such decisions, and not just the Almighty Buck. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be the single factor since the IT downturn.
Thus far, I think there's a definite correlation between higher education in this field and higher pay. I'm surprised by another post in this thread about testimony about how one is better off going straight to work. When I got my Ph.D. I'm sure I started higher than I would have been paid with 6 years of programming experience. Of course, I had foregone a "decent" salary for those years. But after a few more years I'm confident that the higher salary more than made up for it, and I had more fun too.
This doesn't make it any easier for those seeking work, of course. Not too long ago it was virtually unheard of for a CS research lab to lay people off, and now it's a fixture. I fell victim to this myself. Do I fear a repeat down the road, only this time so that I can be replaced by someone in a cheaper economy? Not in the near future, but certainly down the road. I just have to prepare for the possibility as best I can, and also strive to be one of those who are kept despite such a transition.
With fingers crossed...
Point noted. But lots of people, even with families, get graduate degrees. In a CS Ph.D. program, a student usually gets enough support from teaching or research not to starve, though most don't exactly go to Club Med either. Usually, in the case of the students with families, one spouse works while the other is in school. If one spouse stays at home, probably with young kids, then a grad student stipend won't cut it for a family, and the student needs to work during the day and take evening classes. I have several coworkers doing just that.
In the end, I do think it'll be a while before the "highest level" of IT (such as research labs) find comparable counterparts at that deep a discount. People who are worried about their job moving offshore should think about how they can do things that can't move as easily, perhaps by increasing their education (MS/PhD)...