Sure, however without Linux's support Java will remain marginalized as a server-side business scripting language. Java needs Linux, Linux does not need Java. Certainly not enough to include non-free software as a core component.
Linux needs Java. Tell me, how many large scale enterprise applications are being written specifically for Linux?
The Java platform opened the door for companies to migrate code from Windows, Solaris, and AIX to Linux. Surely you don't think that enterprise Linux is only Apache with PHP?
Nothing but the Department of Justice & the Federal Criminal & Civil courts....which took so long to come to a decision that we went through an administration change! Technology moves so fast that even if Microsoft did something blatantly illegal, the repercussions would be felt long before the case would make it to court.
And hey, IIRC, didn't Microsoft sign an agreement saying they'd deliver the Java platform according to the specification? Innovation doesn't include sneaking in your own APIs into the core libraries, claiming to be enhancing the platform when in fact you're locking it down to your own platform.
Okay, but here's something to consider... if building a system is part of the fun, then why buy a Mac?
Granted, there are some cool system and case mods done with Macs, the typical Mac owner is less interested in tweaking and modding than in having a computer that works.
I look at it like this... some folks like to buy a Honda Civic, bolt on a turbo, fiddle with the exhaust and intake, and have a cheap car that can run with a Porsche 911. It may not be as bulletproof, but even with repairs, it's more affordable than the Porsche 911.... but if you're the type of person that just wants a fast car (with a warranty!) that runs, you probably won't be modding up an "inexpensive import".
No one complains of Porsche, Ferrari, or Lamborghini using proprietary parts. If you check out the cost of maintenance on one of 'em, you may even see why AppleCare is an option for the "I want something that just works!"-crowd.
Price is a wonderful point of comparison, but there is room for the Civic and the 911 in the automotive world, and no one claims that the small marketshare of Porsche indicates they are going out of business anytime soon.
Also... consider this: the "ultimate build-it-yourself" PC may not come in much cheaper than a comparable Mac. Notice these benchmarks that show a dual 2.0 Ghz G5 like the one I paid $3299 for being very competitive with a dual 2.0Ghz AMD Opteron box from Xi Computing, which clocked in at $4107.
Also... note that the gamingcomparison shows the G5 (equipped with a Radeon 9800 or 9600) does pretty good, though the difference in APIs (DirectX vs. OpenGL) can also be a factor here.
So this bring up my big question...
How many people are building systems with "off the shelf" parts that are actually significantly cheaper than a PowerMac G5, and can compete toe-to-toe with it?
Point by point...
#1 I use Microsoft Office v.X and share documents all the time with other Windows users. The only problems I ever ran into were when I forgot to check off "Send Windows Friendly Attachements" in Mail.app when exchanging documents.
#2 The only feature missing in the Office apps I miss is Visio. Of course, once I bought OmniGraffle Professional, I could read and write Visio drawings in the Visio/XML format.
#3 My company's portal doesn't work with Safari, IE 5.2, and any flavor of Mozilla on ANY platform. In fact, it doesn't even work with anything prior to IE 6.0 on Windows. Would I blame the Mac? Nope... I blame the dork who architected our portal (he knows who he is!) When sites target IE, that's unavoidable...
#4 Never run into a problem exchanging documents in Word format, as per #1
#5 I'm a Java developer, so I can't even begin to touch the Adobe apps.
#6 Ever heard of SAMBA? I can login to Windows domains, navigate shares, and work alongside my colleagues on a Windows network.
I'm doing that today. And I never need to worry about viral hits on my laptop.
As many people in this thread have pointed out, speed is only part of the equation when asking if the Powerbook is "superior" for development to an x86 solution.
Truthfully, my 1Ghz 17" Aluminum seems to be marginally slower than a 2.4Ghz Toshiba for some Java tasks. Certain packages (IntelliJ IDEA, Aqua Data Studio) are zippy enough that I have no discernable difference between running on the Mac and running on the PC.
That said, just to illustrate why I use a Powerbook (with Virtual PC), I took this screen snapshot just to illustrate the flexibility (and show off how cool the Powerbook is).
Getting BEA Weblogic to work (at least versions 7.x) is just a matter of tweaking the shell scripts that come with another UNIX version.
I develop code for a large financial system that targets Weblogic 7.0, and with the advent of JDK 1.4's availability on the Mac last year, I was able to not only develop with the usual tools, but even leverage Weblogic Integration (WLI) and Weblogic Workshop (Web Services Development Tool).
HP resells the iPod and iTMS to add value to their product lineup so that potential customers can do one-stop shopping for HP branded products (computer, printer, MP3 player, etc...) just like Dell does... but without the extra effort involved in trying to create a new product (like the Dell DJ) and a new service (Dell Music Store).
HP's product portfolio still looks good, but they are effectively outsourcing a consumer product and service to Apple.
Hmmm.
Given the earlier posts about HP outsourcing, this sounds like it's the norm for them..!
I agree that if you buy used, iTMS can't compete on price. However, it does offer one thing: immediate gratifciation.
I can't count how many times I've found a song quickly and easily on iTMS that I couldn't find at a local used CD shop. Truthfully, I haven't used eBay for hunting down music, but that's mainly because I want my music NOW.:-)
The interesting twist, IIRC, is that Microsoft decided to but a dagger in IBM's back half-way through, and began forking their effort into what would become Windows NT. IBM, on the other hand, failed to market OS/2 and wouldn't even prebundle a computer with OS/2 for fear of reprisal from Microsoft.
Don't get me wrong... OS/2 was a nice operating system, offering many modern amenities (multithreading, windows-like UI, nice development tools if you had the $$$), but it failed because it lacked a killer feature to lure Windows users away... especially after Microsoft took away IBM's license to bundle Windows with OS/2.
...for Microsoft. It's true that eventually, faced with free alternatives, Microsoft will eventually lose marketshare at both the high-end and at the "cheap PC at Wal-Mart" levels.
I have a feeling that Microsoft's slide won't be quick, nor
complete... remember when IBM was supposedly going to
fall into the ocean because they weren't able to compete with Sun, SGI, and HP in the UNIX market?
Functionally, the company can continue to generate revenue and remain "profitable" for a long time. If you look at Microsoft's strongest competitors in each business, how many of them can retain a lead on M$ for another 3-5 years while Microsoft tries to reinvent itself to boost profits?
IBM and HP each half-compete with Microsoft while shipping their products to their enterprise customers.
Sun and "The Linux Distros" (Red Hat, SuSE, etc...) all nudge Microsoft at the desktop level... although none of them may have the resources to survive a sustained competition with Microsoft. That said, Apple seems to thrive despite having a small market share because it has a loyal userbase.
Sony may have a real battle on its hands with the next generation consoles given that Nintendo's weakness and Microsoft's marketing muscle (and deep pockets) may give them a big boost to narrow the gap in marketshare.
And how is Palm weathering the Micro$oft assault on handheld operating systems?
Perhaps the most interesting thing will not be anticipating the inevitable downturn Microsoft will face, but to consider what form a "new" Microsoft will take when they try to claw their way back to the top? I have this gut feeling that X-Box and PocketPC create a new "low-end" strategy in markets where being the provider of an OS and a reference design can be very profitable.
I have a message from the future. It's "I'm sorry to hear that someone smashed your car window and made off with your $400 portable music player.
Ummm, you do realize that it can charge while it is playing in the car, right? I have this exact same setup in my car, and when I get ot of my car, I simply take my iPod with me.
(And unlike a "detachable faceplate" for a car stereo, the iPod can be used as a walkman when it's not in the car. Score one for the 'pod)
I remember affectionally referring to the TRS-80 as the "TRASH-80".:-) Of course, I was player-hating a friend of mine who had a TRS-80 Model III with a character-based Defender/Scramble clone.
*sigh*
That said, when I got my Coleco Adam, I knew I had the KING of orphaned computers. Even the TI-99/4A pales in comparison!:-)
P.S., You know I'd be a good referral for you. After all, I was the guy responsible for teaching you J2EE! Good luck in the job hunt!
I'll "fourth" that nomination... Mine has survived some minor drops (less than 2') and it's held up like a trooper... my 17" PB still looks new thanks (in no small part) to the Brenthaven bag.
Granted, accessing main memory from a G4/G5 processor will be slower, but doesn't this sound familiar to Apple users?
That said... it's a cool idea.:-)
Java has one key advantage over assembler: it runs everywhere.
Also, depending on the JVM in use, performance may not be bad at all...
I'm sure that if optimizing assembler code was worth the effort to code it, the developers could write the Win32 flavor in assembler, and provide a Java version for those who run on other platforms.
I remember playing Madden '93 on Sega Genesis, and having epic gridiron battles with a friend of mine. The most interesting thing about the Madden franchise is that I can walk up to any version, and after adjusting to the differences in game speed and button layout, and play it.
The great part is, I know it's not reflecting *real* football perfectly, but as a game, it's always had phenomenal replay value, and anytime two hardcore football fans get together to play it, it can be more entertaining than the real thing...
IBM's participation in JavaONE probably reflects an attempt to curtail spending at trade shows that won't increase their bottom line.
If you look at IBM's involvement in the Java Community Process for J2SE and J2EE you'll see there are over 20 IBM-led efforts under the umbrella of a process that is managed by Sun.
Sun may not have product to capitalize on Java, but as a steward of the standard, the company is still in a uniquely powerful position.
Any bug you can control is a feature!
The big question in my mind would be... what would stop some enterprising individual from replicating this bug to
forge the watermarks?
I'd make the claim that if you compare the price/performance of a Chevrolet Corvette Z06 versus an "Italian exotic car" (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc...), we'd all agree that for $50,000, the Z06 is -close enough- to leave its intended audience satisfied when compared to a $150,000 car.
If M$ can make a "Corvette" of OSes, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it's more like a Malibu.:-)
After all, we all pay for those Windows licenses that may or may NOT be used on every desktop PC sold, regardless of whether it's running Linux or not, right?
Slashdot Mirror
The Java platform opened the door for companies to migrate code from Windows, Solaris, and AIX to Linux. Surely you don't think that enterprise Linux is only Apache with PHP?
Nothing but the Department of Justice & the Federal Criminal & Civil courts. ...which took so long to come to a decision that we went through an administration change! Technology moves so fast that even if Microsoft did something blatantly illegal, the repercussions would be felt long before the case would make it to court.
And hey, IIRC, didn't Microsoft sign an agreement saying they'd deliver the Java platform according to the specification? Innovation doesn't include sneaking in your own APIs into the core libraries, claiming to be enhancing the platform when in fact you're locking it down to your own platform.
Apparently it worked for them!
Granted, there are some cool system and case mods done with Macs, the typical Mac owner is less interested in tweaking and modding than in having a computer that works.
I look at it like this... some folks like to buy a Honda Civic, bolt on a turbo, fiddle with the exhaust and intake, and have a cheap car that can run with a Porsche 911. It may not be as bulletproof, but even with repairs, it's more affordable than the Porsche 911.... but if you're the type of person that just wants a fast car (with a warranty!) that runs, you probably won't be modding up an "inexpensive import".
No one complains of Porsche, Ferrari, or Lamborghini using proprietary parts. If you check out the cost of maintenance on one of 'em, you may even see why AppleCare is an option for the "I want something that just works!"-crowd.
Price is a wonderful point of comparison, but there is room for the Civic and the 911 in the automotive world, and no one claims that the small marketshare of Porsche indicates they are going out of business anytime soon.
Also... consider this: the "ultimate build-it-yourself" PC may not come in much cheaper than a comparable Mac. Notice these benchmarks that show a dual 2.0 Ghz G5 like the one I paid $3299 for being very competitive with a dual 2.0Ghz AMD Opteron box from Xi Computing, which clocked in at $4107.
Also... note that the gamingcomparison shows the G5 (equipped with a Radeon 9800 or 9600) does pretty good, though the difference in APIs (DirectX vs. OpenGL) can also be a factor here.
So this bring up my big question...
How many people are building systems with "off the shelf" parts that are actually significantly cheaper than a PowerMac G5, and can compete toe-to-toe with it?
Point by point... #1 I use Microsoft Office v.X and share documents all the time with other Windows users. The only problems I ever ran into were when I forgot to check off "Send Windows Friendly Attachements" in Mail.app when exchanging documents. #2 The only feature missing in the Office apps I miss is Visio. Of course, once I bought OmniGraffle Professional, I could read and write Visio drawings in the Visio/XML format. #3 My company's portal doesn't work with Safari, IE 5.2, and any flavor of Mozilla on ANY platform. In fact, it doesn't even work with anything prior to IE 6.0 on Windows. Would I blame the Mac? Nope... I blame the dork who architected our portal (he knows who he is!) When sites target IE, that's unavoidable... #4 Never run into a problem exchanging documents in Word format, as per #1 #5 I'm a Java developer, so I can't even begin to touch the Adobe apps. #6 Ever heard of SAMBA? I can login to Windows domains, navigate shares, and work alongside my colleagues on a Windows network. I'm doing that today. And I never need to worry about viral hits on my laptop.
Truthfully, my 1Ghz 17" Aluminum seems to be marginally slower than a 2.4Ghz Toshiba for some Java tasks. Certain packages (IntelliJ IDEA, Aqua Data Studio) are zippy enough that I have no discernable difference between running on the Mac and running on the PC.
That said, just to illustrate why I use a Powerbook (with Virtual PC), I took this screen snapshot just to illustrate the flexibility (and show off how cool the Powerbook is).
Screen Snapshot
I develop code for a large financial system that targets Weblogic 7.0, and with the advent of JDK 1.4's availability on the Mac last year, I was able to not only develop with the usual tools, but even leverage Weblogic Integration (WLI) and Weblogic Workshop (Web Services Development Tool).
HP resells the iPod and iTMS to add value to their product lineup so that potential customers can do one-stop shopping for HP branded products (computer, printer, MP3 player, etc...) just like Dell does... but without the extra effort involved in trying to create a new product (like the Dell DJ) and a new service (Dell Music Store).
HP's product portfolio still looks good, but they are effectively outsourcing a consumer product and service to Apple.
Hmmm.
Given the earlier posts about HP outsourcing, this sounds like it's the norm for them..!
I can't count how many times I've found a song quickly and easily on iTMS that I couldn't find at a local used CD shop. Truthfully, I haven't used eBay for hunting down music, but that's mainly because I want my music NOW. :-)
The interesting twist, IIRC, is that Microsoft decided to but a dagger in IBM's back half-way through, and began forking their effort into what would become Windows NT. IBM, on the other hand, failed to market OS/2 and wouldn't even prebundle a computer with OS/2 for fear of reprisal from Microsoft.
Don't get me wrong... OS/2 was a nice operating system, offering many modern amenities (multithreading, windows-like UI, nice development tools if you had the $$$), but it failed because it lacked a killer feature to lure Windows users away... especially after Microsoft took away IBM's license to bundle Windows with OS/2.
Anyone remember OS/2 for Windows?
shudder
I have a feeling that Microsoft's slide won't be quick, nor complete... remember when IBM was supposedly going to fall into the ocean because they weren't able to compete with Sun, SGI, and HP in the UNIX market?
Functionally, the company can continue to generate revenue and remain "profitable" for a long time. If you look at Microsoft's strongest competitors in each business, how many of them can retain a lead on M$ for another 3-5 years while Microsoft tries to reinvent itself to boost profits?
IBM and HP each half-compete with Microsoft while shipping their products to their enterprise customers.
Sun and "The Linux Distros" (Red Hat, SuSE, etc...) all nudge Microsoft at the desktop level... although none of them may have the resources to survive a sustained competition with Microsoft. That said, Apple seems to thrive despite having a small market share because it has a loyal userbase.
Sony may have a real battle on its hands with the next generation consoles given that Nintendo's weakness and Microsoft's marketing muscle (and deep pockets) may give them a big boost to narrow the gap in marketshare.
And how is Palm weathering the Micro$oft assault on handheld operating systems?
Perhaps the most interesting thing will not be anticipating the inevitable downturn Microsoft will face, but to consider what form a "new" Microsoft will take when they try to claw their way back to the top? I have this gut feeling that X-Box and PocketPC create a new "low-end" strategy in markets where being the provider of an OS and a reference design can be very profitable.
Ummm, you do realize that it can charge while it is playing in the car, right? I have this exact same setup in my car, and when I get ot of my car, I simply take my iPod with me.
(And unlike a "detachable faceplate" for a car stereo, the iPod can be used as a walkman when it's not in the car. Score one for the 'pod)
I remember affectionally referring to the TRS-80 as the "TRASH-80". :-) Of course, I was player-hating a friend of mine who had a TRS-80 Model III with a character-based Defender/Scramble clone.
*sigh*
That said, when I got my Coleco Adam, I knew I had the KING of orphaned computers. Even the TI-99/4A pales in comparison! :-)
P.S., You know I'd be a good referral for you. After all, I was the guy responsible for teaching you J2EE! Good luck in the job hunt!
I'll "fourth" that nomination... Mine has survived some minor drops (less than 2') and it's held up like a trooper... my 17" PB still looks new thanks (in no small part) to the Brenthaven bag.
Granted, accessing main memory from a G4/G5 processor will be slower, but doesn't this sound familiar to Apple users? That said... it's a cool idea. :-)
Java has one key advantage over assembler: it runs everywhere. Also, depending on the JVM in use, performance may not be bad at all... I'm sure that if optimizing assembler code was worth the effort to code it, the developers could write the Win32 flavor in assembler, and provide a Java version for those who run on other platforms.
I just wish it was available on Mac OS X...
I remember playing Madden '93 on Sega Genesis, and having epic gridiron battles with a friend of mine. The most interesting thing about the Madden franchise is that I can walk up to any version, and after adjusting to the differences in game speed and button layout, and play it.
The great part is, I know it's not reflecting *real* football perfectly, but as a game, it's always had phenomenal replay value, and anytime two hardcore football fans get together to play it, it can be more entertaining than the real thing...
If you look at IBM's involvement in the Java Community Process for J2SE and J2EE you'll see there are over 20 IBM-led efforts under the umbrella of a process that is managed by Sun.
Sun may not have product to capitalize on Java, but as a steward of the standard, the company is still in a uniquely powerful position.
Any bug you can control is a feature! The big question in my mind would be... what would stop some enterprising individual from replicating this bug to forge the watermarks?
I'd make the claim that if you compare the price/performance of a Chevrolet Corvette Z06 versus an "Italian exotic car" (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc...), we'd all agree that for $50,000, the Z06 is -close enough- to leave its intended audience satisfied when compared to a $150,000 car.
:-)
If M$ can make a "Corvette" of OSes, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it's more like a Malibu.
Ironically, I own a Mac. :-)
After all, we all pay for those Windows licenses that may or may NOT be used on every desktop PC sold, regardless of whether it's running Linux or not, right?