When I see the security people making sane arguments and agreeing on
something, that will change. Quite frankly, I expect hell to freeze over
before that happens, and pigs will be nesting in trees. But hey, I can
hope.
I'm simply not interested in this discussion. If you cannot understand the
*meta*discussion above (which has nothing to do with SMACK or SELinux per
se), I cannot help you.
The biggest reason for me to merge SMACK (and AppArmor) would not be those
particular security modules in themselves, but to inject a sense of
reality in people. Right now, I see discussions about removign LSM because
"SELinux is everything". THAT IS A PROBLEM. - Linux
It doesn't look to me like people are refusing to quantify anything.
From reading the article, seems like the arguments against SELinux being the main security model are that it requires work to configure, and it breaks peoples insecure closed source apps, leading them to be instructed turn SELinux off. The argument for using it appear to be that it provides genuinely tight security.
The arguments for using alternatives to SELinux are that they work with the insecure closed source apps and are easier to configure. The argument against using the alternatives appears to be that they aren't actually secure. The 3 walls are better than none argument.
Linus' decided that he doesn't know anything about this shit, he doesn't care about learning about it, and he'll fucking merge everything and the kitchen sink in there and fuck the consequences if Morris doesn't get the "meta-message" that he wants to be left alone.
That's not leadership. It's not solid decision making. It's a lack of interest in taking responsibility for security merged with the pettiness of a child who will fuck everything up completely if that's what he has to do to make you aware of who wears the pants around here.
You contribute to Project Mayo because you think all this MPEG-4 compression stuff is great. The project leaders insist that you have to assign copyright of your contributions to them, but that's ok, they're hackers like you, out there fighting the man and all that jazz.
Then one day the people who started Project Mayo decide to sell out. They close Project Mayo, they create DivX Networks, they make some more improvements to the code base, then they start selling equipment manufacturers licenses to use the code in their equipment.
If you'd like another example, MySQL works the exact same way.
So do QT, upon which KDE is based.
None of which is to say that RMS and friends are going to do anything like this, but nevertheless, there are precedents for this sort of bullshit.
Those bastards and their managed economies. Don't they know that innocent people are suffering? They should just do as the Monks are asking, abandon their responsibilities to their society, give up, and let the market manage itself.
Sure, lots of people will die in the short term, but that's just the free market correcting itself. Once that short term correction is over, I'm sure those that are left will all be rich and free and life will be wonderful.
Yeah, those monks come from the most caste driven culture in the world, where someone born in the lowest castes are forced to remain there forever, and it's true, they don't have the slightest clue how to manage a population that has grown beyond what a primitive, tribal level of technology can sustain, but come on, they're pacifists opposing communism! They must be good guys! Fox News told me so!
If he started doing this on a volunteer basis back in Jan, and due to overwhelming community response many drivers got written, then wouldn't that mean that this project exists despite Novell? He'd happily do it for free, and was doing it for free, despite Novell paying him to do other stuff.
It's nice that buddy is being left to his own devices and getting funded. Good of Novell to fund this work. But it's not something "brought to you by Novell" like the headline says.
Everyone knows that 99% of female players in any game are just sneaky little greedy losers who like to find some little 14 year old and charm him into giving her all kinds of free stuff. I've seen it in 3 different games I've played. But it's kinda stupid cuz the actual females playing as females do that too.
Where's the escapism? Why would they waste their time doing that in a game when they do it every day in real life?
I have to say, if I was sitting down to build a business using a GPL3 stack vs using a GPL2 stack, the GPL3 stack would make me feel a lot more secure that some dickhead from the BSA wasn't going to come mug me in broad daylight once I started to see some success in my endeavors.
There may only be a few developers in the very large pool that jump right on to this license, but if those few developers put together a comprehensive tool set that is released under this license, it could attract a large number of users who worry about this very risk and find the safety offered to them very appealing.
No, I expect others to develop within themselves the capacity to be self-reliant. If they don't do it, they are inferior to those that do.
You can mouth off all you want, but that's still the way the world works. If that statement bothers you, maybe you need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
I was in the book club when I was a teenager, and I got a ton of good hardcover books for next to nothing. Still have them on the bookshelf behind me. They were really, really good deals.
My cousin signed up for the CD club 3 times, once in his own name, once in his girlfriends name, and once in his mothers name.
He made out like a bandit... get the freebies, pay for the ones you need to buy at a fair and reasonable price, send them a letter saying you want to cancel, then they send you a better offer than the original signup deal to entice you to stay. They used to do that 3 times per person before they would decide you weren't worth keeping on as a customer and stopped offering sweetheart deals.
If you were too lazy and irresponsible to actually be involved in the process, you might end up buying things you didn't particularly want, but that's no one elses fault.
Looks to me like they're switching their service to one that has better DRM.
We are happy to be able to offer you a 1-month free subscription to the Virgin Media digital streaming jukebox and this link will be available from next week.
Streaming jukebox application with Trusted Computing technology anyone?
What you describe doesn't sound like democratically created content.
When the shift goes from "I make a web page and put it on my server" to "I give you my creation and you put it on your site.", that sounds more like a step away from democratically created content and a step towards centralized big media.
You want democracy online, you're looking at something more along the lines of
1) Everyone with a computer has a server on it that they are not obligated to pay commercial prices for. 2) Everyone with an internet connection has a static IP address and at least one fully qualified domain name. 3) Internet service providers are not permitted to enforce terms of use that preclude hosting.
Everything that is happening with the Web these days is taking us further away from this, not closer towards it.
Web 2.0 is everything that was only practical on an intranet 5 years ago, but is now practical across the internet.
Except now we have the XMLHttpRequest object, and no longer need to resort to things like modal dialog windows, hidden frames and web bugs to achieve these effects.
There's no fraud here. This is just like the book clubs, the CD clubs, and the movie clubs. Pay a penny, get 6 free books, and every month, unless you say otherwise, you buy two more. This business model has been around for ages.
If there are suckers who don't bother to read the print and take the steps necessary to opt out, and they go around telling people that the company is engaged in fraud when they aren't, those people should be sued. It's libel to make false statements like that, and there really isn't anything else that can be done to put a stop to it.
Personally, I wouldn't own a car I didn't know how to maintain. I don't even like cars, but I at least know how to maintain every car I have ever personally owned. Just like I know how to maintain my computers, my tools, my mountain bike, my camping gear, my climbing gear, my musical instruments and my weapons.
It's one of those things that separates the men from the boys. I honestly can't understand how someone could walk around every day knowing that they're hopelessly dependent on other people for such routine things.
Yeah, I think you're spoiled. Not because you're rich or not rich, but because regardless, if you're a grown man who can't look after his own shit, you're clearly a useless and helpless and pampered individual with useless, pampered friends.
You don't have to be a mechanic to maintain your car, you don't have to be a coder to maintain your computer, and if you're not equipped to do these things, or too lazy to learn, get a Nintendo and a bus pass.
Those aren't repairs. They're general maintenance operations. Yes, most people do these things for themselves, unless they're spoiled rich or absolute idiots. Well, most men do at any rate... most women get a man to do it for them. It's customary to get a buddy or two to come spot you and help drink the beer, but not mandatory.
Do you seriously pay people to do these basic things for you?
I like my phone. It plugs into the wall. When I go out for a walk to the park, no one can call me. I consider this a feature. It never runs out of batteries, it never needs to be recharged, it works when the power goes out, and you can use the buttons, which are real, actual buttons, without even looking at the phone. It also makes this distinctive "ring-ring" noise instead of playing music, which I really like. Also, it only cost me $10.00.
I wonder how much longer you'll be able to buy them.
I imagine the Chinese people would like that very much, yes, and it's to them that their leadership is accountable.
I liked how the bit where you made the blanket statement that Chinese people are evil and got modded +5 Insightful. Speaks volumes to the mentality of the moderation around here these days.
To be quite honest, I find society in the USA grotesque. I've visited a few times, and all I wanted to do was leave before I opened my mouth and got myself into trouble. It looks a lot better in the brochure.
What I was saying, is that it is better to have a communistic society that looks out for each other, than to let the USA come in and fix things so people in the USA live a little better off your resources and you get to serve or die.
If they could set things up so they were the ones with the guns and exploitative contracts, and they were pillaging the USA instead of the other way around, then yes, they would probably eat better than they do.
Of course, it's when they start thinking that way that they end up going bankrupt buying guns and having cold wars and neglecting the stuff that matters, isn't it?
I'm not saying that the USSR had a thriving, wealthy economy or that they didn't.
But what did most certainly happen is that after they were broken by the Cold War, an oligarchy was formed out of the bureaucracy that had ruled Russia. We helped set them up so we would have economic entities to deal with. Of course, there are also other hated-rich over there who took advantage of connections to establish their position.
That oligarchy then funneled the wealth that they formerly administered in the name of the people, and now simply owned, into wealthy foreign markets and enriched themselves while the common people died in the streets. And they did die in the streets, or sink into crime. You move forward a bit, now look at all the troubles Putin is having trying to extricate his country from the blatant robbery that all these commercial agreements amount to.
That's what happens to communist economies when we march in and switch them over to happy little capitalist economies. We set up deals which leave them holding the short end.
The system replaced might have been struggling under the responsibility of caring for its population, but we don't go in and improve things, we go in and institute an ideology that allows for letting those people fend for themselves while we claim the resources that were barely keeping them alive for ourselves. Then they either become slaves to foreign interests if they are lucky, or die if they are unlucky.
This is the same thing that would have happened in China if they had had a wild west free market event because of the June Fourth Movement.
Capitalism/Communism isn't about freedom from totalitarianism, it's about the capacity men within a society have to use economic force against each other during day to day operations within that society.
That has been an important point to enough people to fuel most of the wars of the last hundred years, and it was the platform by which the rulers of China assumed power.
I think that if the Chinese government had lost power during the June Fourth Movement, their country would have experienced similar hardships, on a larger scale, and would not be the world power that they are today.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure didn't seem that way to me.
When I see the security people making sane arguments and agreeing on something, that will change. Quite frankly, I expect hell to freeze over before that happens, and pigs will be nesting in trees. But hey, I can hope.
I'm simply not interested in this discussion. If you cannot understand the *meta*discussion above (which has nothing to do with SMACK or SELinux per se), I cannot help you.
The biggest reason for me to merge SMACK (and AppArmor) would not be those particular security modules in themselves, but to inject a sense of reality in people. Right now, I see discussions about removign LSM because "SELinux is everything". THAT IS A PROBLEM. - Linux
It doesn't look to me like people are refusing to quantify anything.
From reading the article, seems like the arguments against SELinux being the main security model are that it requires work to configure, and it breaks peoples insecure closed source apps, leading them to be instructed turn SELinux off. The argument for using it appear to be that it provides genuinely tight security.
The arguments for using alternatives to SELinux are that they work with the insecure closed source apps and are easier to configure. The argument against using the alternatives appears to be that they aren't actually secure. The 3 walls are better than none argument.
Linus' decided that he doesn't know anything about this shit, he doesn't care about learning about it, and he'll fucking merge everything and the kitchen sink in there and fuck the consequences if Morris doesn't get the "meta-message" that he wants to be left alone.
That's not leadership. It's not solid decision making. It's a lack of interest in taking responsibility for security merged with the pettiness of a child who will fuck everything up completely if that's what he has to do to make you aware of who wears the pants around here.
No it doesn't. Information hates being anthropomorphized.
It works like this:
You contribute to Project Mayo because you think all this MPEG-4 compression stuff is great. The project leaders insist that you have to assign copyright of your contributions to them, but that's ok, they're hackers like you, out there fighting the man and all that jazz.
Then one day the people who started Project Mayo decide to sell out. They close Project Mayo, they create DivX Networks, they make some more improvements to the code base, then they start selling equipment manufacturers licenses to use the code in their equipment.
If you'd like another example, MySQL works the exact same way.
So do QT, upon which KDE is based.
None of which is to say that RMS and friends are going to do anything like this, but nevertheless, there are precedents for this sort of bullshit.
And anyway, Russian space program was funded sparingly for most of its history, when compared to NASA.
You said a mouthful there.
Those bastards and their managed economies. Don't they know that innocent people are suffering? They should just do as the Monks are asking, abandon their responsibilities to their society, give up, and let the market manage itself.
Sure, lots of people will die in the short term, but that's just the free market correcting itself. Once that short term correction is over, I'm sure those that are left will all be rich and free and life will be wonderful.
Yeah, those monks come from the most caste driven culture in the world, where someone born in the lowest castes are forced to remain there forever, and it's true, they don't have the slightest clue how to manage a population that has grown beyond what a primitive, tribal level of technology can sustain, but come on, they're pacifists opposing communism! They must be good guys! Fox News told me so!
If he started doing this on a volunteer basis back in Jan, and due to overwhelming community response many drivers got written, then wouldn't that mean that this project exists despite Novell? He'd happily do it for free, and was doing it for free, despite Novell paying him to do other stuff.
It's nice that buddy is being left to his own devices and getting funded. Good of Novell to fund this work. But it's not something "brought to you by Novell" like the headline says.
Young people are going to be getting unasked for text messages advising them how to kill their children.
And you people cheer.
Damn this place is fucked up.
Everyone knows that 99% of female players in any game are just sneaky little greedy losers who like to find some little 14 year old and charm him into giving her all kinds of free stuff. I've seen it in 3 different games I've played. But it's kinda stupid cuz the actual females playing as females do that too.
Where's the escapism? Why would they waste their time doing that in a game when they do it every day in real life?
I have to say, if I was sitting down to build a business using a GPL3 stack vs using a GPL2 stack, the GPL3 stack would make me feel a lot more secure that some dickhead from the BSA wasn't going to come mug me in broad daylight once I started to see some success in my endeavors.
There may only be a few developers in the very large pool that jump right on to this license, but if those few developers put together a comprehensive tool set that is released under this license, it could attract a large number of users who worry about this very risk and find the safety offered to them very appealing.
I'm a Canadian, not a copyleft movement. She's a traitor. I want her hung.
Anyone in the Ottawa region want to take the law into their own hands?
http://411ca.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=Patricia&name=Neri&city_zip=Ottawa&state_id=ON
No, I expect others to develop within themselves the capacity to be self-reliant. If they don't do it, they are inferior to those that do.
You can mouth off all you want, but that's still the way the world works. If that statement bothers you, maybe you need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
Don't know what you're going on about.
I was in the book club when I was a teenager, and I got a ton of good hardcover books for next to nothing. Still have them on the bookshelf behind me. They were really, really good deals.
My cousin signed up for the CD club 3 times, once in his own name, once in his girlfriends name, and once in his mothers name.
He made out like a bandit... get the freebies, pay for the ones you need to buy at a fair and reasonable price, send them a letter saying you want to cancel, then they send you a better offer than the original signup deal to entice you to stay. They used to do that 3 times per person before they would decide you weren't worth keeping on as a customer and stopped offering sweetheart deals.
If you were too lazy and irresponsible to actually be involved in the process, you might end up buying things you didn't particularly want, but that's no one elses fault.
Looks to me like they're switching their service to one that has better DRM.
We are happy to be able to offer you a 1-month free subscription to the Virgin Media digital streaming jukebox and this link will be available from next week.
Streaming jukebox application with Trusted Computing technology anyone?
What you describe doesn't sound like democratically created content.
When the shift goes from "I make a web page and put it on my server" to "I give you my creation and you put it on your site.", that sounds more like a step away from democratically created content and a step towards centralized big media.
You want democracy online, you're looking at something more along the lines of
1) Everyone with a computer has a server on it that they are not obligated to pay commercial prices for.
2) Everyone with an internet connection has a static IP address and at least one fully qualified domain name.
3) Internet service providers are not permitted to enforce terms of use that preclude hosting.
Everything that is happening with the Web these days is taking us further away from this, not closer towards it.
Web 2.0 is everything that was only practical on an intranet 5 years ago, but is now practical across the internet.
Except now we have the XMLHttpRequest object, and no longer need to resort to things like modal dialog windows, hidden frames and web bugs to achieve these effects.
That pretty much sums it up.
There's no fraud here. This is just like the book clubs, the CD clubs, and the movie clubs. Pay a penny, get 6 free books, and every month, unless you say otherwise, you buy two more. This business model has been around for ages.
If there are suckers who don't bother to read the print and take the steps necessary to opt out, and they go around telling people that the company is engaged in fraud when they aren't, those people should be sued. It's libel to make false statements like that, and there really isn't anything else that can be done to put a stop to it.
Or maybe he'd just rather spend his time doing stuff that's actually fun or productive. You're just an elitist prick.
Maybe I am. I hold myself to some fucking high standards, and people who don't utterly disgust me.
Wow.
Personally, I wouldn't own a car I didn't know how to maintain. I don't even like cars, but I at least know how to maintain every car I have ever personally owned. Just like I know how to maintain my computers, my tools, my mountain bike, my camping gear, my climbing gear, my musical instruments and my weapons.
It's one of those things that separates the men from the boys. I honestly can't understand how someone could walk around every day knowing that they're hopelessly dependent on other people for such routine things.
Yeah, I think you're spoiled. Not because you're rich or not rich, but because regardless, if you're a grown man who can't look after his own shit, you're clearly a useless and helpless and pampered individual with useless, pampered friends.
You don't have to be a mechanic to maintain your car, you don't have to be a coder to maintain your computer, and if you're not equipped to do these things, or too lazy to learn, get a Nintendo and a bus pass.
Those aren't repairs. They're general maintenance operations. Yes, most people do these things for themselves, unless they're spoiled rich or absolute idiots. Well, most men do at any rate... most women get a man to do it for them. It's customary to get a buddy or two to come spot you and help drink the beer, but not mandatory.
Do you seriously pay people to do these basic things for you?
It's kind of sick, isn't it.
I like my phone. It plugs into the wall. When I go out for a walk to the park, no one can call me. I consider this a feature. It never runs out of batteries, it never needs to be recharged, it works when the power goes out, and you can use the buttons, which are real, actual buttons, without even looking at the phone. It also makes this distinctive "ring-ring" noise instead of playing music, which I really like. Also, it only cost me $10.00.
I wonder how much longer you'll be able to buy them.
He didn't say the world would be that way without Microsoft.
He said that such a world would be damaging to Microsoft, and that they are actively trying to prevent such a world from ever existing.
He is right. You are the one not using logic here.
I imagine the Chinese people would like that very much, yes, and it's to them that their leadership is accountable.
I liked how the bit where you made the blanket statement that Chinese people are evil and got modded +5 Insightful. Speaks volumes to the mentality of the moderation around here these days.
To be quite honest, I find society in the USA grotesque. I've visited a few times, and all I wanted to do was leave before I opened my mouth and got myself into trouble. It looks a lot better in the brochure.
What I was saying, is that it is better to have a communistic society that looks out for each other, than to let the USA come in and fix things so people in the USA live a little better off your resources and you get to serve or die.
If they could set things up so they were the ones with the guns and exploitative contracts, and they were pillaging the USA instead of the other way around, then yes, they would probably eat better than they do.
Of course, it's when they start thinking that way that they end up going bankrupt buying guns and having cold wars and neglecting the stuff that matters, isn't it?
I'm not saying that the USSR had a thriving, wealthy economy or that they didn't.
But what did most certainly happen is that after they were broken by the Cold War, an oligarchy was formed out of the bureaucracy that had ruled Russia. We helped set them up so we would have economic entities to deal with. Of course, there are also other hated-rich over there who took advantage of connections to establish their position.
That oligarchy then funneled the wealth that they formerly administered in the name of the people, and now simply owned, into wealthy foreign markets and enriched themselves while the common people died in the streets. And they did die in the streets, or sink into crime. You move forward a bit, now look at all the troubles Putin is having trying to extricate his country from the blatant robbery that all these commercial agreements amount to.
That's what happens to communist economies when we march in and switch them over to happy little capitalist economies. We set up deals which leave them holding the short end.
The system replaced might have been struggling under the responsibility of caring for its population, but we don't go in and improve things, we go in and institute an ideology that allows for letting those people fend for themselves while we claim the resources that were barely keeping them alive for ourselves. Then they either become slaves to foreign interests if they are lucky, or die if they are unlucky.
This is the same thing that would have happened in China if they had had a wild west free market event because of the June Fourth Movement.
Capitalism/Communism isn't about freedom from totalitarianism, it's about the capacity men within a society have to use economic force against each other during day to day operations within that society.
That has been an important point to enough people to fuel most of the wars of the last hundred years, and it was the platform by which the rulers of China assumed power.
I think that if the Chinese government had lost power during the June Fourth Movement, their country would have experienced similar hardships, on a larger scale, and would not be the world power that they are today.