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C# and CLI Fast-tracked to ISO
jdfox writes "It wasn't that long ago that ECMA approved standardisation of Microsoft C# and the associated Common Language Infrastructure. Now they have used the "fast-track" agreement between ECMA and ISO to move ISO ratification forward quickly, according to this article on CNET. We should see ISO C# by January.
Maybe this will finally persuade Sun to take their leash off of Java."
Maybe this will finally persuade Sun to take their leash off of Java."
The whole thing is moot.
I gotta say I think its great for my career that I support a 7 layer OSI kernel stack. I mean, it was the first ISO network standard! And that really means something in todays "just get it done" business climate. I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities out there for me!
De Juris standards don't mean squat. I'll take De facto every day.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
C# will not get me a job as a systems developer. C++ will. C will. Java maybe. C# more than likely not. C# will only benefit those doing Windows app development. Of course, I may be wrong and if I am, please enlighten me because I'd like to learn the language but don't want to waste my time on something that isn't marketable.
I don't care. Both C# and Java suck royally.
Use Common Lisp, and free yourself.
An "official" standard that no-one uses and with one (1) complete implementation is much worse than a "de facto" standard with multiple complete implementations, anyway. Case in point: OSI vs TCP/IP.
And Java is standardised - one can download static Java VM, Language and class library specs, and implement it. You can't call it "Java" without Sun's permission - but this is akin to the way "Mesa" can't be called "OpenGL".
And apart from anything else, the C# and CLI standards don't standardise much beyond the "core" - MS will still have umpty-million proprietary APIs on to of it anyay.
At least with Java, the umpty-million APIs are also de-facto standardised with publically available specification documents. e.g. J2EE, Swing, etc. Yes, there are proprietary implementations of those standards, and sometimes the Sun implementation is basically the only one available, but, in principle, one can produce an independent Java-clone. e.g. Kaffe or GJC + GNU Classpath.
A standard will at least give the Mono folks something to point to if Microsoft decides to move the goalposts with later changes to C# or the CLR. We need an open-source implementation of this because Microsoft has the right idea.
The C# versus Java debate is a red herring that's most interesting to language bigots. There's a more important difference between the philosophies. Sun wants the world to write all its code in Pure Java, abandoning the non-Sun environments they currently have. This is a great idea for full software programmer employment, we can spend all our time rewriting the world's code in Java. Not.
Microsoft wants to let people to migrate the stuff they have slaved over for the past 25 or so years into a shiny new Common Language Runtime environment. Yes, there is a new C# language, but the front end can be other languages as well. With minimal changes, a business can take the core of a Cobol program that has proven itself over the past 10 years, recompile it with a Cobol compiler that generates CLR, and drop it down into a new distributed environment. They can write the web interface to that Cobol core in any language they want, including C#, VB, Javascript, Fortran, or even Java (J++) if that's what their current programming staff is trained to use.
For a moment, ignore the language bigotry and disregard whether Microsoft might implement this in some way that will hurt their competitors. Which approach seems to be the most logical to you? Rewrite all the world's code or reuse what you can?
I am sure there are many developers who have skills ranging from C,C++ to Java C# including all scripts and tools associated with it.And these developers have ability to quickly learn new technology b'cos of their experience and get expert to some extent.I consider one myself.
But where are Jobs man..? Companies are cutting their IT budgets as much as Bush is planning to spend it on war.Companies are installing new security systems which filters out software developers.:-).So guys what do you think ? Does it matter if Microsoft C# is going to ISO or Java released new EJB specification ?
You could join the Army.
M$ has a tech that they call It Just Works (IJW) that, suprisingly, does!
.NET languages is a pain, but it DOES NOT require rewriting.
We converted 2+ million lines of c/c++ code to CLR in a matter of days.
Now, making some of those c++ classes interact with other
I do everything the voices in my head tell me to...
Prolog is the Way.
...is the Taco Bell 7-layer burrito. Every other network vendor has played games under the hood, collapsing some of the layers into one.
(That's actually a quote, but I can't recall who said it. And I'm too tired to google for it.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
C# is hot and getting hotter. The skill sets are in short supply. If you are developing business apps I would suggest that it is a good choice to invest time in. If you get real experience in it and .NET now you're bankable for years to come.
www.bannination.com Two things float to the top he
> Could someone please enlighten me with a grammatical explanation of the "off of"
> construct above?
I suppose you mean:
Could someone please enlighten me with a grammatical explanation of the above-mentioned construct "off of"?
But while you're ending your sentences with prepositions while whining about perceived Crimes Of Grammar on a a tech blog, why not amuse yourself with this joke:
A Southerner stopped a stranger on the Harvard campus and asked, "Could you please tell me where the library is at?" The stranger responded, "Educated people never end their sentences with a preposition." The Southerner replied, "Could you please tell me where the library is at, asshole?"
This move is clearly designed to help C# and .NET get into classrooms. Currently C++ is used by many schools because the faculty wanted to teach something that had been "standardized". They don't want to teach a language that's going to be obsolete in a year. This is particularly true at two year schools, where there isn't time to teach multiple languages, and the students are intending to go straight into the job market.
Of course, then these same schools go ahead and use Visual C++, so standards go right out the window. But the buzzword remains powerful in their purchasing decisions. For this very reason, Java is only being hesitantly adopted.
If Microsoft can get C# standardized, they won't have to use the standard. They just need it for marketing.
Our Session layer and Presentation layer are state-machine pass-thru's!
Quick, I gotta run for the border just to pass compliance testing...
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Um... How many decent programmers do you think there are in the world? Quite a few, that's for sure, and many of them program in C, C++ or Java. Under the present circumstances, many of those are sitting in stable jobs, and their employers are keeping a stable staff, so there's not much going on in that market.
The only places the industry is really moving now are bad/unlucky people who've been hurt by the recession, and buzzwordites who follow wherever the hype takes them. Given this climate, it's not surprising that buzzwordy languages have lots of job offers, but that certainly doesn't make them mainstream, and is no guarantee that things will stay that way in the long term.
XP is commonplace? I've never seen a professional development company that uses it on a widespread basis. Some of the better guys have looked at it, and plenty of places have been implementing parts of what XP recommends since long before the hype. But it's hardly what I'd call mainstream, however much those who evangelise on its behalf might like to disagree.
As for OOP, if anything, I think the market is starting to realise that it isn't a panacea. Everyone and his brother has tried it, a lot have liked it more than what's gone before, but I'm waiting for some of the more recent developments in programming theory to hit the mainstream now, not for the next big OO revolution.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I wouldn't bet my career on it. Going with Microsoft's latest and greatest isn't always a sure thing, as anyone who went into Visual J++ found out a few years back, and anyone with lots of VB6 background is discovering right now. Microsoft has already dropped several major parts of .NET faced with, essentially, a complete lack of interest in them (which was widely predicted by anyone who watched the industry months earlier). What makes you think there will be any serious advances in C#/.NET's CLR in the future if they don't take off either?
If I could take a language like C++ or Java, which has a wide range of applications and is widely adopted across the industry, or a language like C# that's much hyped but currently little used, I'd go for the safe bet if I knew I needed a rent cheque next month.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
C# is an abomination. Really - there have to be better things to discuss here.
Java on servers is applicable. But even giving C# the time of day is akin to claiming that Windows will beat out Unix because of its superiority.
What would ISO-C# help as long as the main vendor doesn't support multiple targets?
99% of the C# code will use some part of the Windows classes space, and will be inheritely importable.
So that leaves some academical playing with the rest. I'm also afraid that will be Mono's place.
This is no competition of Java (and I'm no Java lover btw, just a realist), which is already entrenched in a lot of companies.
Not standards, but decent vendor support is what
C# needs to make it credible for non M$-shop managerial eyes.
Does your sig have any relation to the play with the line 'ceci n'est pas un trou' put on by the electric theatre company at least once? I thoroughly enjoyed it. The Project. Dun Dun Dun.... :)
SSL Certificate
This is the most brilliant marketing scheme I've ever seen.
... ... embrace and extend it.
Standardize your own technology, try to get people to buy into the standard, and then
Microsoft should try and patent the process by which it re-proprietizes it's proprietary products.
No, it's just a silly, in-jokey reference to René Magritte, the late Belgian artist whose work I love. I'd guess Electric Theatre were making a similar reference, but I haven't seen the play.
u ni-sb.de/~lynx/magritte/
More on da man Magritte here:
http://www.magritte.com/
http://www.asta.
There are many good reasons to visit Belgium, but Magritte and the beer are my two favourites.