Ever tried to set up a 56k modem in linux? Don't go there.
Yes, I have gotten winmodems working successfully in Linux (Lucent chipsets, so Linuxant drivers which are now, unfortunately, $15). A serial modem is so much easier, and you don't get a huge resources spike when dialing, either. They can be expensive, though, and for a laptop aren't a solution.
Get a printer working under CUPS? Faster to ask your neighbour to print it.
Did that too. Did hit a snag with CUPS but I can't remember what it was exactly...might have been gedit wouldn't see the printer until I restarted gnome. Took maybe 30 mins tops, problem and all.
Firewire support in Fedora. Don't get me started.
Don't have any firewire devices, nor have I used Fedora, so I wouldn't know.
I'm not saying this stuff is easy but it is not rocket science either! And with distros providing graphical system tools (SuSE's YAST, Mandrakes...er, whatever) if a user can do it in Windows, 90% of the time they can do it using these GUI tools.
Question: I don't have many "willing" friends and family but I have been suggesting that Windows is the runt of the desktop litter (OSX, GNU/Linux, Windows) for sometime now. Which distro would you recommend I install if I can get anyone to consent? SuSE? I do have a SuSE 9.0 dvd but I really did find it a major pain in the ass updating SuSE. YOU is cumbersome and apt4rpm was a pale imitation of apt last time I tried it.
I would go with Debian but I really don't want to become their bitch doing lots of post-install configuration, etc. I would prefer to give them something that they can configure themselves (cdwriter, printer, etc.) but that I can easily SSH into and not have to deal with RPM hell. Is Mandrake what I'm looking for, or is SuSE + apt4rpm a better bet?
Is this slashdot or some shitty zine put together by highschool age "hackers"?
I thought slashdot had become some shitty zine by and for highschool age "hackers". Or maybe the readership is getting older while the editors live in some sort of adolescent fantasy world where stuff like this is actually "news for nerds" (wow, story is about an ipod!!! coolz! must post it to the frontpage!).
knx-hdinstall will get Knoppix installed on your hard drive, not Debian. If you then try and move from Knoppix to Debian using apt you may have major issues. Debianites will not help you with these because you are not using Debian...
If you want Debian, install Debian (oh look, new installer and it needs testing).
If you're using screen (and it's been mentioned so often in this thread that you should probably try it if you haven't already; also see my journal entry '.screenrc') use hardcopy (default binding is ^A-h) to dump an image of the current window to screen's current working directory.
I'm tempted to try the new d-i but I don't have any cdrs. I guess I could ask him to give me one...
Failing that, I have a Woody dvd but...well, I don't know what networking hardware he has so updating may be a PITA.
Actually, whether or not I install Debian for him at all is contingent upon support for his modem. He's still on dial-up, you see:/ The main point of putting Debian on there was so he didn't get 0wnz3rd checking email and browsing the web. If he can't get online, for him there's really little incentive to switch.
His girlfriend (whose laptop it nominally is, although he uses it the most it seems to me) insists that I reinstall OfficeXP because of Word. I'm pretty sure that she'd get used to OO.org in time, though. And eventually they could be weened of Windows altogether...
Anyway, I'll have to wait and see on Linux support for their winmodem. I doubt they'd be willing to pay for a Linuxant license and I know that they wouldn't want to buy a hardware modem because of the cost and the fact that it's not integrated into the laptop. But, if I can get the modem working for free, then I'm sure they'll be happy converts.
I think Linux desktop support is pretty much there/em. Non-geeks can plop an ISO in, run through the graphical installer, and come out with a desktop system where everything pretty much works. Yeah, GNOME/KDE will look hugely different to XP but then the XP interface was itself quite a departure from the previous versions of Windows. It's just a case of adapting to a new desktop environment.
However, most of my non-geeky friends have laptops and things don't always just work here, AFAIK.
Is there an installer that has especially good laptop support? I would love to get them to switch away from Windows but I don't want to a) install it for them and, subsequently, b) become their tech support bitch.
At the moment all they do is natter about pop-unders when using Firefox (I suspect they're actually IE windows launched from resident spyware; yes, I tell them to run AdAware, trendmicro, etc.) or other Windows 'fun' like worms or viruses. All I can do is stare at them blankly.
If they could start using Linux on their own, without too much handholding, I'd have a lot less staring to do...
None that I know of comply fully but standards are of huge importance to both Mozilla and Opera:
An advocate for standards on the Net who provides tools for developing standard web content. - Mozilla.org (specifications support)
Opera prides itself in supporting all major Web standards currently in use, including CSS2, HTML4, XHTML1, HTTP1.1, DOM1, JavaScript, PNG, Unicode, and the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm. - Opera.com (specifications support)
Neither comply fully but they're both a darned sight better than IE.
I can say though that somewhat vague requests for "better standards support" are not as useful as a specific example of what you'd like to see changed and specifically why it would improve things.
Okay, specifically then, go to w3.org. Read specs. Implement.
It's pretty obvious why a web standards compliant IE would improve things (google: web standards). Oh, but it wouldn't allow Microsoft to extend the web anymore with stupid proprietry shit. I guess they're right out the window then.
I seriously doubt IE7 will be compliant. It would be nice, for sure, but given Microsoft's history it's extremely unlikely.
There are of course a million and one derivatives (Debian has 82, Fedora/RH has 63, etc.) which are less or more newbie friendly than the base distro.
I would recommend Knoppix but not installing it. If you want Debian, install Debian. Things will go smoother for you. In fact, I'd avoid all derivatives for the simple fact that you'll get more support that way.
Everything depends on the user, of course, but for the vast majority of new users suggesting they start with a 'hard' distro is sheer idiocy.
I do but they don't listen. I've installed it for them when IE gets hosed with the $LATEST_MS_EXPLOIT and tell them that to avoid further problems they shouldn't use IE/Outlook/WMP but they won't stop using them.
Even somewhat technical people tell me they prefer IE because it's 'faster' (to launch, presumably). No doubt, it's part of the goddamn kernel for crying out loud.
I just tell them that I don't use Windows anymore (true) and that they should get support from their vendor (yeah, right), Microsoft themselves (hah!), or the computer genius (the kid who downloads hentai off kazaa) that lives near them.
Re:Don't get too excited
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· Score: 1
Eh.
ninja@fire:~> ps V ; ps aSx | sort -n -r -k 4,4 | head ; uptime procps version 3.2.1
1 ? S 9297:08 init [2] 30693 ? S 4476:58 xscreensaver [snip] 30584 ? SL 1192:31/usr/X11R6/bin/X [snip] 30721 ? Ss 133:09 python/usr/bin/gdesklets [snip]
2244 pts/9 Rs 112:30/bin/bash 31683 pts/15 Ss 42:09/bin/bash
735 ? Ss 30:17/usr/sbin/cron 15394 ? S< 26:46 [khcfpcimodemd]
1015 ? Ss 19:26 SCREEN -S torrents
1503 pts/8 Ss+ 16:07/bin/bash
19:16:09 up 19 days, 43 min, 12 users, load average: 0.16, 0.30, 0.32
Which I think just goes to show that...my ps is fucked up (or I fucked it up). Beyond that, however, it illustrates that these things aren't always accurate, their data can become corrupt or be manipulated.
Some people scam reporting data on projects like SETI to bolster their stats, and there's not even a financial incentive! If this is a legitimate scheme, I can only imagine the number of bogus claimants against spammers. I would cheat these people without compunction, what with the amount of my time/bandwidth/resources they've wasted over the last decade.
No, you're not alone. I have an AN7 and neither the Alsa kernel modules nor the Alsa 1.0.3 package works.
OSS does work but I get a whopping 2-channels on a 5.1 setup.
I'm going to buy a seperate soundcard, personally, and shy away from everything onboard motherboards unless I know for a fact that they are well supported. This is first and foremost my fault for not researching Linux compatability before buying a motherboard. However, it is also Nvidia's fault for using binary drivers and not keeping them updated. If the nforce drivers were Open Source or maintained then there would be no issue. As it stands it's a mess.
Oddly, Nvidia does quite a good job of staying up to date with their graphics drivers.
If the girls (er, hunies) were to whore themselves out to an adult site like they do on FunHi they would actually get some of the take instead of just stupid gifs.
Are there any binary packages besides those that come on the install cds? I was under the impression that there were very few binary repositories since it sort of negates the 'performance' aspect of the distribution (sorry, meta-distribution). And despite my negative tone, I actually like the sound of Gentoo's build customization. Possible without emerge, of course, but it makes things easier.... What I, and I think many people, dislike are the fanatics who tout 'speed' and 'performance' at any opportunity (such as this thread).
Personally, I think Gentoo is kinda good but not for me. One, I'm on dial-up for Pete's sake:/ Downloading -k7 (where it matters) packages over apt is bad enough, downloading the source for everything would be worse by 1.5x-2x. Two, I don't want to devote 2-12 hours to recompiling every time I update. Sorry, but the benefits aren't worth it in my eyes.
What would be great, imo, is emerge/portage + apt, or more binaries in portage. Anything you want customized, bleeding edge, or optimized you build; everything else you get the binary.
Personally, I install from packages (apt) wherever possible. If something is unpackaged and looks new and shiny, then I'll install from source. I really can't imagine managing a large number of applications without a package manger, even if it's something you've written yourself.
If installing everything from source is your thing, you're probably already using Gentoo with its package mangagment. So the question is moot.
Slashdot Mirror
Hmm, well I'll give it a try if I get any takers amongst friends or family :) Thanks!
Ever tried to set up a 56k modem in linux? Don't go there.
Yes, I have gotten winmodems working successfully in Linux (Lucent chipsets, so Linuxant drivers which are now, unfortunately, $15). A serial modem is so much easier, and you don't get a huge resources spike when dialing, either. They can be expensive, though, and for a laptop aren't a solution.
Get a printer working under CUPS? Faster to ask your neighbour to print it.
Did that too. Did hit a snag with CUPS but I can't remember what it was exactly...might have been gedit wouldn't see the printer until I restarted gnome. Took maybe 30 mins tops, problem and all.
Firewire support in Fedora. Don't get me started.
Don't have any firewire devices, nor have I used Fedora, so I wouldn't know.
I'm not saying this stuff is easy but it is not rocket science either! And with distros providing graphical system tools (SuSE's YAST, Mandrakes...er, whatever) if a user can do it in Windows, 90% of the time they can do it using these GUI tools.
Question: I don't have many "willing" friends and family but I have been suggesting that Windows is the runt of the desktop litter (OSX, GNU/Linux, Windows) for sometime now. Which distro would you recommend I install if I can get anyone to consent? SuSE? I do have a SuSE 9.0 dvd but I really did find it a major pain in the ass updating SuSE. YOU is cumbersome and apt4rpm was a pale imitation of apt last time I tried it.
I would go with Debian but I really don't want to become their bitch doing lots of post-install configuration, etc. I would prefer to give them something that they can configure themselves (cdwriter, printer, etc.) but that I can easily SSH into and not have to deal with RPM hell. Is Mandrake what I'm looking for, or is SuSE + apt4rpm a better bet?
I'm not familiar with either of those image viewers but I recommend feh. It's commandline-driven, though.
Pornview might be more to your taste.
"Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing."
Heh.
Both of these are packaged in Debian.
I thought slashdot had become some shitty zine by and for highschool age "hackers". Or maybe the readership is getting older while the editors live in some sort of adolescent fantasy world where stuff like this is actually "news for nerds" (wow, story is about an ipod!!! coolz! must post it to the frontpage!).
And, of course, Firefox is by far the better porn browser with extensions such as magpie. See pornzilla for more details.
knx-hdinstall will get Knoppix installed on your hard drive, not Debian. If you then try and move from Knoppix to Debian using apt you may have major issues. Debianites will not help you with these because you are not using Debian...
If you want Debian, install Debian (oh look, new installer and it needs testing).
Try this*:Proof positive that Knoppix isn't Debian!
* Stolen from Mister dpkg.
If you're using screen (and it's been mentioned so often in this thread that you should probably try it if you haven't already; also see my journal entry '.screenrc') use hardcopy (default binding is ^A-h) to dump an image of the current window to screen's current working directory.
I'm tempted to try the new d-i but I don't have any cdrs. I guess I could ask him to give me one...
:/ The main point of putting Debian on there was so he didn't get 0wnz3rd checking email and browsing the web. If he can't get online, for him there's really little incentive to switch.
Failing that, I have a Woody dvd but...well, I don't know what networking hardware he has so updating may be a PITA.
Actually, whether or not I install Debian for him at all is contingent upon support for his modem. He's still on dial-up, you see
His girlfriend (whose laptop it nominally is, although he uses it the most it seems to me) insists that I reinstall OfficeXP because of Word. I'm pretty sure that she'd get used to OO.org in time, though. And eventually they could be weened of Windows altogether...
Anyway, I'll have to wait and see on Linux support for their winmodem. I doubt they'd be willing to pay for a Linuxant license and I know that they wouldn't want to buy a hardware modem because of the cost and the fact that it's not integrated into the laptop. But, if I can get the modem working for free, then I'm sure they'll be happy converts.
</rant>
I think Linux desktop support is pretty much there/em. Non-geeks can plop an ISO in, run through the graphical installer, and come out with a desktop system where everything pretty much works. Yeah, GNOME/KDE will look hugely different to XP but then the XP interface was itself quite a departure from the previous versions of Windows. It's just a case of adapting to a new desktop environment.
However, most of my non-geeky friends have laptops and things don't always just work here, AFAIK.
Is there an installer that has especially good laptop support? I would love to get them to switch away from Windows but I don't want to a) install it for them and, subsequently, b) become their tech support bitch.
At the moment all they do is natter about pop-unders when using Firefox (I suspect they're actually IE windows launched from resident spyware; yes, I tell them to run AdAware, trendmicro, etc.) or other Windows 'fun' like worms or viruses. All I can do is stare at them blankly.
If they could start using Linux on their own, without too much handholding, I'd have a lot less staring to do...
Neither comply fully but they're both a darned sight better than IE.
It's pretty obvious why a web standards compliant IE would improve things (google: web standards). Oh, but it wouldn't allow Microsoft to extend the web anymore with stupid proprietry shit. I guess they're right out the window then.
I seriously doubt IE7 will be compliant. It would be nice, for sure, but given Microsoft's history it's extremely unlikely.
I would recommend Knoppix but not installing it. If you want Debian, install Debian. Things will go smoother for you. In fact, I'd avoid all derivatives for the simple fact that you'll get more support that way.
Everything depends on the user, of course, but for the vast majority of new users suggesting they start with a 'hard' distro is sheer idiocy.
I do but they don't listen. I've installed it for them when IE gets hosed with the $LATEST_MS_EXPLOIT and tell them that to avoid further problems they shouldn't use IE/Outlook/WMP but they won't stop using them.
Even somewhat technical people tell me they prefer IE because it's 'faster' (to launch, presumably). No doubt, it's part of the goddamn kernel for crying out loud.
I just tell them that I don't use Windows anymore (true) and that they should get support from their vendor (yeah, right), Microsoft themselves (hah!), or the computer genius (the kid who downloads hentai off kazaa) that lives near them.
One porn DivX per second. Cool!
Some people scam reporting data on projects like SETI to bolster their stats, and there's not even a financial incentive! If this is a legitimate scheme, I can only imagine the number of bogus claimants against spammers. I would cheat these people without compunction, what with the amount of my time/bandwidth/resources they've wasted over the last decade.
The (quite expensive) software.
Being cynical, I'd guess Hickman has some sort of advertising deal with write-bros rather than being a simple end-user.
Monoglot/monolingual is almost the word he is after since it describes the problem most native English speakers have.
:)
How about "tourist"?
In its original form: How to install Linux on a dead badger.
No, you're not alone. I have an AN7 and neither the Alsa kernel modules nor the Alsa 1.0.3 package works.
OSS does work but I get a whopping 2-channels on a 5.1 setup.
I'm going to buy a seperate soundcard, personally, and shy away from everything onboard motherboards unless I know for a fact that they are well supported. This is first and foremost my fault for not researching Linux compatability before buying a motherboard. However, it is also Nvidia's fault for using binary drivers and not keeping them updated. If the nforce drivers were Open Source or maintained then there would be no issue. As it stands it's a mess.
Oddly, Nvidia does quite a good job of staying up to date with their graphics drivers.
If the girls (er, hunies) were to whore themselves out to an adult site like they do on FunHi they would actually get some of the take instead of just stupid gifs.
Kind of :)
:/ Downloading -k7 (where it matters) packages over apt is bad enough, downloading the source for everything would be worse by 1.5x-2x. Two, I don't want to devote 2-12 hours to recompiling every time I update. Sorry, but the benefits aren't worth it in my eyes.
:)
Are there any binary packages besides those that come on the install cds? I was under the impression that there were very few binary repositories since it sort of negates the 'performance' aspect of the distribution (sorry, meta-distribution). And despite my negative tone, I actually like the sound of Gentoo's build customization. Possible without emerge, of course, but it makes things easier.... What I, and I think many people, dislike are the fanatics who tout 'speed' and 'performance' at any opportunity (such as this thread).
Personally, I think Gentoo is kinda good but not for me. One, I'm on dial-up for Pete's sake
What would be great, imo, is emerge/portage + apt, or more binaries in portage. Anything you want customized, bleeding edge, or optimized you build; everything else you get the binary.
Just a thought
Duck and cover, incoming Gentoo zealots :P
Personally, I install from packages (apt) wherever possible. If something is unpackaged and looks new and shiny, then I'll install from source. I really can't imagine managing a large number of applications without a package manger, even if it's something you've written yourself.
If installing everything from source is your thing, you're probably already using Gentoo with its package mangagment. So the question is moot.
It won't be long before keyloggers are installed on these things. Hell, it beats the mini-camera scheme for capturing PINs.
RTFM!
Now, a planet named after a miserable women who marries her father's dog is fair game...