I hate these self-prophets roaming around the IT world. They are part of the fucking reason we had the dot-com crash. And they will continue to hamper the industry.
Fucking let everyone code in whatever they want man... Just stop trying to convince everyone that your own point of view is the best point of view.
I use C++ most of the time, but I don't cower at using fast throwaway stuff like the odd perl CGI script, or some ASP. Everything has its place. Except for evangelizers like this.
And please enlighten us as to why a piece of software that is mostly mathematical (read the most complexe things it will ask out of the computer are 64 bit floating point operations - not realtime interrupt handling) would need the underlying OS to be open source?
Rendering software needs the following:
a CPU, with floating point operations (emulated if necessary)
persistent memory management - read: a file system capable of housing, you guessed it, files
sockets for network communications in case you want to distribute the tasks - you are quite the fools if you think linux miraculously makes any application distributed
Are you guys seriously thinking that linux is providing something here that the other OSs can't? If you are, it means you are beyond hope.
Yeah man, I think I'm on the right site. I never said I was anti linux. I use linux myself...
But here's my cherry pick for you: "You hear a lot about Linux not being ready to work on desktops,"
So let's respond to FUD by writing stuff that makes linux people look like defensive 14 year old girls who shy of their own bodies... The text in that article is just plain demeaning... it has the tone of a desperate teenager's cry. Think all you want of me... the truth is there.
There are two possible outcomes of this: a) it's going to make some people look like idiots - namely the people writing that article, b) it's going to work (make linux look good somehow), but then you will have whored out your own principles and will be at the same level of advertising as microsoft is.
Fucking fucking losers... alright, I have karma to burn (and enemies to make I guess)...
Sinbad's numerous ocean scenes created a daunting technological task. If animators had created the film's oceans segment by segment (as in the past), it could have added years to the movie's production time. By using Linux, the DreamWorks effects department was able to create a rolling oceanscape rather than compose the ocean frame by frame.
What has linux got anything to do with anything here? it's an OS not a rendering suite!!!
Hype like this just makes you lose credibility man...
OK... YOU FUCKING IDIOT: WHAT PART OF "NT IS NOT A REAL TIME OS" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???
WHAT PART OF "REAL TIME PRIORITY THREADS ARE JUST THE NAME GIVEN FOR A CERTAIN TYPE OF THREAD ON NT" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???!?
On another note, NT's interrupt servicing architecture is *MORE* granular (yes MORE), than linux' (unless the latest version of linux kernel is now fully interruptible - which I don't think it is). NT's ISRs can be interrupted while servicing another interrupt, whereas Linux' ISR fully mask any other inbound interrupt.
Who the fuck are you??!? Do you speak english? Do you even program? what's your job, if you have one?
Even further: ATI has never officially supported many NT/XP/2k drivers either...
I had bought a TV tuner card about 2 years ago, (it was brand new at that point)... the drivers went from beta to discontinued. The beta drivers were a hunk of shit. It took me hours to install them: there was no installer provided, just the drivers with.inf files, there were 6 distinct drivers for one physical card, and unless you found the exact sequence to install them in, they would BSOD the computer *during installation*. (I had to go through quite a few permutations). UN-F*CKING-ACCEPTABLE!
That is why I swore to myself that I would never buy an ATI card again (and I won't).
NT is not an RTOS. Even if you do everything right, the kernel can, and will, just go off into the weeds sometimes.
Neither is linux for the matter. (and both can be modified to be).
Further more, NT *doesn't* go off into the weeds. If it ever freezes up, it's because of hardware interrupts (the CD ROM drive is a good example). And please, don't think the shell freezing up means the kernel is freezing up.
I fully don't agree with what you are saying... mainly because you are accusing NT of being things I know it is not (I've worked extensively with the kernel), and also because of the symptoms I get: *if* my mp3 playback ever skips, the skip is typcial of a buffer underrun in the sound card (the same 500ms sound gets looped over and over - this same thing will happen if you get a BSOD). What this is is this: the kernel didn't have time to respond to an IRQ coming from the card saying "Feed me more data"... this, however, isn't an indication that some thread in the kernel was being late... this only means that the kernel was busy servicing another interrupt. That is the thing with non real time OSs... once servicing one interrupt, the kernel masks out (some) other interrupts.
Now, I really don't know if you are being truthful or not, but my playback is fine, and I have a 4 year old system. In the worst of cases, I can set either my compiler to idle priority (just like droping the nice value on a *nix system), or I can raise the priority of my playback app (winamp or whatever).
And one last thing, do you seriously expect me to buy the argument that somehow NT doens't have a proper scheduler implementation? that it doesn't know how to schedule with priorities? That's just a foolish statement man. And I know it's false.
Just to keep with custom, I will quote you again, and then quote myself:
Yes, it is a design or implementation flaw when your OS fails to play mp3's properly[...] NT simply was not designed to be an RTOS. - you
no, NT isn't a real-time kernel - me
In any case, you seem to be stuck on the idea that NT is improperly designed. You may even get the satisfaction of feeling justified because you think I'm an idiot and I'm representative of all idiots who feel this way about NT.
I don't even feel defensive here... yes dear... you win. Linux will take over the world. You will be the best... your zits and pimples will disapear, and you will get laid.
Btw, if you still haven't understood, I never said NT was a realtime OS, I said "real time priority"... that's the name of the highest thread priority in windows. If you read the documentation, it never guarantees RTOS properties... it just says something very specific of how the scheduler treats threads at that priority: that is that the thread isn't scheduled out until it volountarily relinquishes it's time slice (it's the second time I say this now, I wonder if you even read my posts).
To tell you the truth, I am very impartial (read uninterested) in the whole debate here, I was just metamoderating and saw your post, and had to answer...
Maybe you're onto something in the bigger picture, but just because people around us (such as hilary Rosen, or this guy you quote) are ass holes, doesn't mean we can allow ourselves to lose our intellectual rigour.
In that sense, Arson, no matter what you burn, is a crime... so long as there is a party to charge you with arson. It doesn't matter if the building is abandonned or not, that will only make the sentence differ. The fact that you burned property is arson.
I can prove very easily (in some cases) that there was pre-meditation... for example, I go and buy a gun, and shoot you with it. Or, even easier, I feed you arsenic in very low doses over several months expecting you to eventually die... but you discover this before it's too late. Versus, again my bar example, you end up getting in an argument with someone you don't know and he ends up beating the shit out of you.
When the case isn't so clear, well, that's when you have courts and juries to decide which it is. But clearly, a case goes by charges: "on the charge of first degree attempted murder, the jury finds the defendant innocent... on the charge of manslaughter, the jury finds the defendent guilty [etc.etc]". But nowhere do people equate manslaughter and attempted first degree murder.
While I agree with you, (on your first point as well), it's not nice to polarize either...
There is a difference between battery and attempted murder. The difference is huge. If someone tried to kill you, you would think so too...
There's battery: you insult some drunken guy at a bar, he punches you. And there's someone who's thought meticulously about killing you, but he fails...
Are you going to 'award' him for his failure to execute his plans by saying: "well, it's not murder now is it"?
All in all, I think it's not a good idea to try and make an argument by modifying the axioms of your world (in this case by redefining the word crime). The entirety of math on real numbers has just 18 axioms (I think), nobody thought of adding axioms as they had problems to solve.
In the same way that laws are kind of like axioms (and the DMCA is an atrocious piece of shit), we shouldn't go around saying such broad (wrong) things.
just to add further: what if you commit arson, but nobody is hurt? That's not a crime?
And what about attempted murder... someone tries to kill you, successfully stabs you 18 times, but you miraculously survive... would you want him to be tried as an attempted murderer, or someone who accidentally fell on you with an open knife in his hand?
1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law
2 : a grave offense especially against morality
3 : criminal activity <efforts to fight crime>
4 : something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful <it's a crime to waste good food>
RT OSs aren't about scheduling (that's the easy part)... they're about interrupts - my post
RT is about responding to an event within a certain deadline. Your sound card generates events (specifically, it generates interrupts signalling that the buffer needs filling). - your post.
The *only* reason windows would be somewhat not cool here, is if you have many hard disks, and there are frequent writes (hence flushes) to them. [...] PCI bus is busy - my other post.
If windows players suck, (and I agree, they do), it's because they're badly written (I think of quicktime which for unknown reasons keeps on sending WM_PAINT messages to the entire screen, and Windows Media Player which keeps fucking up with overlays). If you download the div-x Player, or the Playa (don't have links for either, not in mood to karma whore either), you will see they play perfectly fine, even if stretched to full screen (since overlays actually don't consume CPU). My point is this: no, NT isn't a real-time kernel... so yes, if your PCI bus is busy, it will skip. But then again, any system which isn't realtime will skip under the same circumstances too... This is definitely not a design or implementation flaw - if that's somehow what you would want to infer. Windows NT has a very good multimedia architecture... And this is my last post on this topic. You are free to believe NT is the worst ever...
I have to say though, that I am thoroughly impressed with Microsft Office running pretty much flawlessly on that desktop.
Office is one of the 'richest' windows programs in that it uses every possible API under the sun.
It's not like it's just using Win32 like for example Winamp or Regedit would... on top of the regular stuff (GDI, Win32), it extensively uses COM/DCOM/ActiveX, and not the simple features in those either.
Kudos is what I have to say. Even though I agree with parent post =)
I never said it was Real time OS. I did say Real time priority will enable the scheduler to not relinquish the application's time slice until the application does so.
RT OSs aren't about scheduling (that's the easy part)... they're about interrupts. Spew away! You're not worth a decent answer anyways.
I know how things work in computers, and I won't argue about anything on the *nix side of things. But I'll tell you this: the *only* reason my winamp ever skips, is because my PCI bus is busy doing things (generally speaking flushing hard disks, or burning CD-Rs).
If you really are doing stupidly high priority high CPU usage stuff, then set your winamp to 'real time priority' via the task manager. What this does in Win NT/XP/2k is that the process will keep it's time slice until it volountarily relinquishes it (via a call to Sleep(), WaitXxxObjects(), or by returning from the message queue thread).
The *only* reason windows would be somewhat not cool here, is if you have many hard disks, and there are frequent writes (hence flushes) to them. But this would be the same under nix systems which aren't using lazy file systems. Again though, this only and entirely the PCI bus bottleneck... hardware. Not software.
You speak nothing but fud and crap, and I call your bluff. You seriously didn't expect people (albeit the gullible chearleading zealot type on/.) to believe that Microsoft didn't properly code for sound output did you?
I remember once, my TA at university was talking with someone in the front row about "what if I send you my assignment by email but it gets lost"... to which he had answered "look, the 'cp' command is probably the single most used command in the world, I really doubt it's got bugs in it that have been dormant to this day. So when you send me an email on the same system, I'm pretty damn sure it's not going to get lost".
Windows is a multimedia OS (that's what they've banked most of their strategy on) - sure, maybe they suck doing firewalls, but multimedia? you full of shit...
I will now proceed to beating the dead horse some more... in private. Good day to you.
Man, that's ultimate geek application. The one problem is that unless you use your computer as a home theatre (read, entire home), why would you want two sets of speakers to play different stuff, when after all, once in the air, the sounds are going to mix anyways.
Who are you kidding? you're on a linux site, you're just trolling for some karma/recognition.
I'll answer all of your questions, even though I know it's not the answers you want to hear:
My winamp uses up 2 percent of CPU on a dual 450 PIII with a memory footprint of 8 megs. That means you could have say, 50 different streams with my system. Or get 6 streams with about 100 Mhz chip (to be conservative). A low end PIII will do the job is your answer.
it can be remotely controlled via many things, IR ports, LCDs with touch screens, your cell phone, a wireless PDA... your imagination is the limit.
and the kicker: Windows NT/2k/XP can handle it. Just like any other of the current OSs would. You just launch as many winamps as you want, configure them to use a specific sound card, and voila.
I'm a phone user stuck with my Telus (canadian) phone company. I've had a phone number for 5 years now, and I really don't want to switch it. In the meantime though, Telus has got some of the crapiest packages out there... I'm being robbed on a monthly basis.
I've been stuck in it for a few months now, and frankly, I don't see anything happening anytime soon after this ruling. It's going to take at least a whole year!
You could say the same is happening between Mac and Windows (MS Office suite, Photoshop -- the heavy weight apps of business computing)... remember, it's not about portability anymore, it's about interoperability...
An office can have Macs and PCs, so long as they can interoperate... at my previous company, the media department was Macs, the programmers were NT... it worked just fine.
I wish I could say they'd all unite and destroy Windows, but Microsoft has enough loyalists that I don't think that's possible
You're on to something here man...
Just breath deeply, and get rid of the hatred of windows... I personally think the desktop market miraculously being split 3 ways between OSX, Linux and Windows would be the best thing we've *ever* had. *EVER*
Slashdot Mirror
Pavlov would have a field day on this site... you guys hear the bell "RFID" and you can't help but start salivating.
I think the parent post was just pointing out the simplicity in such a gadget - not its invasion of your so precious privacy.
Who among us is soooo old that STL is new??
I hate these self-prophets roaming around the IT world. They are part of the fucking reason we had the dot-com crash. And they will continue to hamper the industry.
Fucking let everyone code in whatever they want man... Just stop trying to convince everyone that your own point of view is the best point of view.
I use C++ most of the time, but I don't cower at using fast throwaway stuff like the odd perl CGI script, or some ASP. Everything has its place. Except for evangelizers like this.
IM(F)O.
Only thing better would be if the news paper had an image of a computer screen with browser viewing the pictures in it...
uhh wait a min...
Rendering software needs the following:
a CPU, with floating point operations (emulated if necessary)
persistent memory management - read: a file system capable of housing, you guessed it, files
sockets for network communications in case you want to distribute the tasks - you are quite the fools if you think linux miraculously makes any application distributed
Are you guys seriously thinking that linux is providing something here that the other OSs can't? If you are, it means you are beyond hope.
But here's my cherry pick for you: "You hear a lot about Linux not being ready to work on desktops,"
So let's respond to FUD by writing stuff that makes linux people look like defensive 14 year old girls who shy of their own bodies... The text in that article is just plain demeaning... it has the tone of a desperate teenager's cry. Think all you want of me... the truth is there.
There are two possible outcomes of this: a) it's going to make some people look like idiots - namely the people writing that article, b) it's going to work (make linux look good somehow), but then you will have whored out your own principles and will be at the same level of advertising as microsoft is.
You pick.
Sinbad's numerous ocean scenes created a daunting technological task. If animators had created the film's oceans segment by segment (as in the past), it could have added years to the movie's production time. By using Linux, the DreamWorks effects department was able to create a rolling oceanscape rather than compose the ocean frame by frame.
What has linux got anything to do with anything here? it's an OS not a rendering suite!!!
Hype like this just makes you lose credibility man...
In other news:
"Making coffee proved a very difficult task for my Ford Explorer."
WHAT PART OF "REAL TIME PRIORITY THREADS ARE JUST THE NAME GIVEN FOR A CERTAIN TYPE OF THREAD ON NT" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???!?
On another note, NT's interrupt servicing architecture is *MORE* granular (yes MORE), than linux' (unless the latest version of linux kernel is now fully interruptible - which I don't think it is). NT's ISRs can be interrupted while servicing another interrupt, whereas Linux' ISR fully mask any other inbound interrupt.
Who the fuck are you??!? Do you speak english? Do you even program? what's your job, if you have one?
I had bought a TV tuner card about 2 years ago, (it was brand new at that point)... the drivers went from beta to discontinued. The beta drivers were a hunk of shit. It took me hours to install them: there was no installer provided, just the drivers with .inf files, there were 6 distinct drivers for one physical card, and unless you found the exact sequence to install them in, they would BSOD the computer *during installation*. (I had to go through quite a few permutations). UN-F*CKING-ACCEPTABLE!
That is why I swore to myself that I would never buy an ATI card again (and I won't).
Neither is linux for the matter. (and both can be modified to be).
Further more, NT *doesn't* go off into the weeds. If it ever freezes up, it's because of hardware interrupts (the CD ROM drive is a good example). And please, don't think the shell freezing up means the kernel is freezing up.
I fully don't agree with what you are saying... mainly because you are accusing NT of being things I know it is not (I've worked extensively with the kernel), and also because of the symptoms I get: *if* my mp3 playback ever skips, the skip is typcial of a buffer underrun in the sound card (the same 500ms sound gets looped over and over - this same thing will happen if you get a BSOD). What this is is this: the kernel didn't have time to respond to an IRQ coming from the card saying "Feed me more data"... this, however, isn't an indication that some thread in the kernel was being late... this only means that the kernel was busy servicing another interrupt. That is the thing with non real time OSs... once servicing one interrupt, the kernel masks out (some) other interrupts.
Now, I really don't know if you are being truthful or not, but my playback is fine, and I have a 4 year old system. In the worst of cases, I can set either my compiler to idle priority (just like droping the nice value on a *nix system), or I can raise the priority of my playback app (winamp or whatever).
And one last thing, do you seriously expect me to buy the argument that somehow NT doens't have a proper scheduler implementation? that it doesn't know how to schedule with priorities? That's just a foolish statement man. And I know it's false.
Just to keep with custom, I will quote you again, and then quote myself:
Yes, it is a design or implementation flaw when your OS fails to play mp3's properly[...] NT simply was not designed to be an RTOS. - you
no, NT isn't a real-time kernel - me
In any case, you seem to be stuck on the idea that NT is improperly designed. You may even get the satisfaction of feeling justified because you think I'm an idiot and I'm representative of all idiots who feel this way about NT.
I don't even feel defensive here... yes dear... you win. Linux will take over the world. You will be the best... your zits and pimples will disapear, and you will get laid.
Btw, if you still haven't understood, I never said NT was a realtime OS, I said "real time priority"... that's the name of the highest thread priority in windows. If you read the documentation, it never guarantees RTOS properties... it just says something very specific of how the scheduler treats threads at that priority: that is that the thread isn't scheduled out until it volountarily relinquishes it's time slice (it's the second time I say this now, I wonder if you even read my posts).
Maybe you're onto something in the bigger picture, but just because people around us (such as hilary Rosen, or this guy you quote) are ass holes, doesn't mean we can allow ourselves to lose our intellectual rigour.
In that sense, Arson, no matter what you burn, is a crime... so long as there is a party to charge you with arson. It doesn't matter if the building is abandonned or not, that will only make the sentence differ. The fact that you burned property is arson.
I can prove very easily (in some cases) that there was pre-meditation... for example, I go and buy a gun, and shoot you with it. Or, even easier, I feed you arsenic in very low doses over several months expecting you to eventually die... but you discover this before it's too late. Versus, again my bar example, you end up getting in an argument with someone you don't know and he ends up beating the shit out of you.
When the case isn't so clear, well, that's when you have courts and juries to decide which it is. But clearly, a case goes by charges: "on the charge of first degree attempted murder, the jury finds the defendant innocent... on the charge of manslaughter, the jury finds the defendent guilty [etc.etc]". But nowhere do people equate manslaughter and attempted first degree murder.
There is a difference between battery and attempted murder. The difference is huge. If someone tried to kill you, you would think so too...
There's battery: you insult some drunken guy at a bar, he punches you. And there's someone who's thought meticulously about killing you, but he fails...
Are you going to 'award' him for his failure to execute his plans by saying: "well, it's not murder now is it"?
All in all, I think it's not a good idea to try and make an argument by modifying the axioms of your world (in this case by redefining the word crime). The entirety of math on real numbers has just 18 axioms (I think), nobody thought of adding axioms as they had problems to solve.
In the same way that laws are kind of like axioms (and the DMCA is an atrocious piece of shit), we shouldn't go around saying such broad (wrong) things.
And what about attempted murder... someone tries to kill you, successfully stabs you 18 times, but you miraculously survive... would you want him to be tried as an attempted murderer, or someone who accidentally fell on you with an open knife in his hand?
Here is the meriam webster definition:
1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law
2 : a grave offense especially against morality
3 : criminal activity <efforts to fight crime>
4 : something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful <it's a crime to waste good food>
Notice the or the omission of a duty line.
See? It's just perspective.
RT is about responding to an event within a certain deadline. Your sound card generates events (specifically, it generates interrupts signalling that the buffer needs filling). - your post.
The *only* reason windows would be somewhat not cool here, is if you have many hard disks, and there are frequent writes (hence flushes) to them. [...] PCI bus is busy - my other post.
If windows players suck, (and I agree, they do), it's because they're badly written (I think of quicktime which for unknown reasons keeps on sending WM_PAINT messages to the entire screen, and Windows Media Player which keeps fucking up with overlays). If you download the div-x Player, or the Playa (don't have links for either, not in mood to karma whore either), you will see they play perfectly fine, even if stretched to full screen (since overlays actually don't consume CPU). My point is this: no, NT isn't a real-time kernel... so yes, if your PCI bus is busy, it will skip. But then again, any system which isn't realtime will skip under the same circumstances too... This is definitely not a design or implementation flaw - if that's somehow what you would want to infer. Windows NT has a very good multimedia architecture... And this is my last post on this topic. You are free to believe NT is the worst ever...
No.
Office is one of the 'richest' windows programs in that it uses every possible API under the sun.
It's not like it's just using Win32 like for example Winamp or Regedit would... on top of the regular stuff (GDI, Win32), it extensively uses COM/DCOM/ActiveX, and not the simple features in those either.
Kudos is what I have to say. Even though I agree with parent post =)
I never said it was Real time OS. I did say Real time priority will enable the scheduler to not relinquish the application's time slice until the application does so.
RT OSs aren't about scheduling (that's the easy part)... they're about interrupts. Spew away! You're not worth a decent answer anyways.
I know how things work in computers, and I won't argue about anything on the *nix side of things. But I'll tell you this: the *only* reason my winamp ever skips, is because my PCI bus is busy doing things (generally speaking flushing hard disks, or burning CD-Rs).
If you really are doing stupidly high priority high CPU usage stuff, then set your winamp to 'real time priority' via the task manager. What this does in Win NT/XP/2k is that the process will keep it's time slice until it volountarily relinquishes it (via a call to Sleep(), WaitXxxObjects(), or by returning from the message queue thread).
The *only* reason windows would be somewhat not cool here, is if you have many hard disks, and there are frequent writes (hence flushes) to them. But this would be the same under nix systems which aren't using lazy file systems. Again though, this only and entirely the PCI bus bottleneck... hardware. Not software.
You speak nothing but fud and crap, and I call your bluff. You seriously didn't expect people (albeit the gullible chearleading zealot type on /.) to believe that Microsoft didn't properly code for sound output did you?
I remember once, my TA at university was talking with someone in the front row about "what if I send you my assignment by email but it gets lost"... to which he had answered "look, the 'cp' command is probably the single most used command in the world, I really doubt it's got bugs in it that have been dormant to this day. So when you send me an email on the same system, I'm pretty damn sure it's not going to get lost".
Windows is a multimedia OS (that's what they've banked most of their strategy on) - sure, maybe they suck doing firewalls, but multimedia? you full of shit...
I will now proceed to beating the dead horse some more... in private. Good day to you.
Who are you kidding? you're on a linux site, you're just trolling for some karma/recognition.
I'll answer all of your questions, even though I know it's not the answers you want to hear:
My winamp uses up 2 percent of CPU on a dual 450 PIII with a memory footprint of 8 megs. That means you could have say, 50 different streams with my system. Or get 6 streams with about 100 Mhz chip (to be conservative). A low end PIII will do the job is your answer.
it can be remotely controlled via many things, IR ports, LCDs with touch screens, your cell phone, a wireless PDA... your imagination is the limit.
and the kicker: Windows NT/2k/XP can handle it. Just like any other of the current OSs would. You just launch as many winamps as you want, configure them to use a specific sound card, and voila.
*yawn*
I've been stuck in it for a few months now, and frankly, I don't see anything happening anytime soon after this ruling. It's going to take at least a whole year!
</rantish post>
An office can have Macs and PCs, so long as they can interoperate... at my previous company, the media department was Macs, the programmers were NT... it worked just fine.
You're on to something here man...
Just breath deeply, and get rid of the hatred of windows... I personally think the desktop market miraculously being split 3 ways between OSX, Linux and Windows would be the best thing we've *ever* had. *EVER*