No, as I said I live in a very small country (Luxembourg) and we've only got DSL since end of last year. (in very few regions, in most of the country it's still impossible to get DSL and in the North cable is non-existent)
You must be kidding! Looking at a small site will undoubtedly result in a completely falsified result. If I took my logs as reference then 90% of the Internet users would be from Luxembourg.
Sure, looking at a website that is pretty well known and internationally used (microsoft.com, slashdot.org, Google,...?) could possibly give some interesting results but you can never give anything representative. For example, there are people using NAT, people whose providers have.com,.net and.org addresses, people using satellite connections and so on and so on.
... you sure bet we do! I've been hearing about cable access and so forth in the US for years and I've only gotten my first 'boardband' Internet access (a measly 256/64 DSL line at around 75$/month) 2 months ago. Before there was simply no option (no flatrate, no cable, no nothing) and even now we're limited to only one DSL line provider given the fact that we still have got our telecoms monopoly.
At least the neighbouring countries are a little better off as their size and deregulation are now allowing for more and more competitors to enter the market.
I'm not trying to start a 'which gfx card is better' flame war here, insert the IMO's below where applicable.
Well you can say the bad TV Out is the manufacturers fault, I say it's nVidia's because they are allowing everybody to built a GeForce 4 with crappy signal quality and TV Outs. (Which is what most companies do: They get an nVidia chipset and then put only the cheapest components around it to remain competitive on the market)
The bashing of the Kyro chipsets was particularly bad and combined with threats to retire the manufacturers ability to get nVidia chipsets (Much like M$ does with Dell... I've probably got the newsmag with the German article lying around somewhere at home)... that's why I mentioned them and that's the kind of politics that drives me away from nVidia.
As for the issue with 3dfx, here's a few links I found: http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecen tral/new s/2793/1/ http://news.com.com/2110-1040-256103.ht ml?tag=rn (I would sum it up as: nVidia infringes on 3dfx patents, nVidia buys 3dfx to get out of the lawsuit, 3dfx is never heard of again)
I for my part don't want an nVidia card even if they are the leading company in their segment (ie Microsoft for gfx cards). I'll admit that no other company has yet managed to produce a real competitive alternative to the GeForces (why do you think that I still stick with that old G400?;) ) but I hope to see a change in that with the new Radeon cards. (Some competition would IMHO be good for the market)
Moderators: the above is 'Off-Topic' and could possibly be interpreted as 'Flamebait'... mod it accordingly
Erm... if you read my original post you'll see that I do not have an nVidia card which is (I assume) the reason why WineX is working so poorly on my machine.
The idea of having a linux distro in the box actually reminds me of a game that Psygnosys once released. If I recall correctly it was called Novastorm and you had to boot it right off the CD (ie no hdd required). During boot-up it would look for patches on the HDD, run HW detection and then eventually load up the game.
I might be wrong about the above but I think it would be a nice idea if you could just insert a CD, boot the box and have the game come up. (just like consoles do) A downside would be the inability to run anything else in the background but at least I don't need any multitasking while I'm playing.
Well... I CAN play GTA3 under Win98 just fine (G400, 256MB RAM, Athlon 700) which is intriguing me as many of my friends with Geforce 2, 3, and 4 cards and CPUs far over the 1GHz barrier seem to have a lot of trouble with it. (the longer you play it the more it slows down...)
A little off topic: The reason I'm not buying an nVidia card is that I consider them to be the Microsoftian monopolist of the gfx card market (They tried to buy out engineers from Matrox which would have killed that company... leaked PowerPoint presentations showed them bashing the design-wise revolutionary Kyro and Kyro 2 chipsets... they stole technology from 3dfx and only bought it once they got threatened by a lawsuit...) and the video signal quality of their cards has always been pretty poor. (TV Out with the famous 2 black bars, which you can only make disappear using 3rd party software, is pretty bad as well)
Anyway, back to topic: I've tried both the CVS versions, 2.0 and 2.1, and had no luck with them. They refused to compile until I found that I was missing some -dev files, IMHO they should really tell people that during configure, especially if there's Linux newbies like me around.
A friend of mine has tried the prepackaged version but his ATI card apparently didn't perform any better.
Yes I did and stuff that runs native (like Unreal Tournament) is working fine so I don't assume it's that.
The thing is: It doesn't work at all. Any games that require 3D just hang or fail with different errors. (Freespace II complains that you cannot launch it directly and when trying a start with the game's autorun launcher nothing happens)
I'll try and see whether it works better in a few months because I must admit that my current PC isn't up to todays standards any more. (Especially the G400)
I've tried WineX on my system and apart from being able to run the installers of the games it didn't help much. I managed to run Wing Commander Prophecy... in software mode! All other games just didn't start or halted the entire system while trying.
I've read their FAQs and it seems they don't support anything but nVidia cards so as far as I can see I'm screwed with my Matrox G400. (And probably that also applies to my future Radeon 9700)
To me, WineX is a step in the right direction, but it's still far away from making games playable without me having to dual boot to my old Win98.
Erm... I don't know about you but when I'm running ed2k and tell it that it's max upload limit is 19kbyte/sec then it's upload limit is 19kbyte/sec and nothing more. Granted, it will somethimes peak over the given limit a little, so I just substract another kbyte/sec to get the 'reserved upload capacity' that I need for browsing et al...
Maybe somebody should patent the method of filing stupid patents for obvious methods? That way we could at least sue people when they get through with something like this;)
I once had a CD-R that didn't get properly written (PC crashed during write) and that could be used to crash EVERY Windows PC in sight. You could disable Autorun and hold the Shift key as long as you wanted, as soon as this disk was inserted into a CD-ROM drive, the respective PC froze completely. (no CTRL+ALT+DEL possilbe, sometimes even the Power Button failed and you had to use the ATX emergency shutdown to power down the PC) I couldn't believe it!
Unfortunately I seem to have lost the bugger somewhere because it was a nice trick to show to colleagues. ("Hey I can crash your PC just by inserting a CD")
... that at some point in time the Hannover Messe A.G. (or what's it called) wanted to split up the CeBIT into two parts, one being the usual CeBIT, oriented towards businesses etc, and the other being the so called 'CeBIT Home' held explicitly for consumers and the like.
For this split up, they implemented a set of rules limiting the usual CeBIT to make it less attractive to consumers. As far as I recall Creative Labs were even considering not to attend the last CeBIT at all due to this. (after all they are more into the consumer market than anything else...)
In short, one of these rules forbids it to allow people to test and 'play' with Joysticks, Consoles, Games.... at the exhibitors booths. Putting stuff on display is allowed but no touching by the visitors.
Note: The above is all AFAIK and IIRC and may not be (completely) correct.
Well, if you consider the wayback machine as a time machine, if it were indexing itself it would probably create a rift in the time/space continuum, right?
... Which IRCd would you recommend? What are their advantages/disadvantages or better say, how do they compare in performing different tasks? Like: 'Which one is best for small LAN parties with up to 500 visitors?'
Any links or bits of information on this would be appreciated.
Hmm... development on such a thing is hard, I know. I've seen several other systems (Intralan, LAS,... sorry can't remember the URLs only the names) and they all seem to get stuck at a certain point of time or are just lagging behind LANsurfer which is IMHO the most feature loaded system until now. I didn't get to look at lanpartyonline.com but reading that they actually charge you for double elimination tournaments I think I prefer my free (as in beer) LS;)
I did notice one difference though:
- Lanpartyonline.com has everything in the Internet, that way ppl can sign up for tourneys BEFORE the LAN but need Internet access at the LAN.
- Lansurfer.com has divided the stuff and put the tournament part into an Intranet Script. That way users unfortunately can't sign up before the party (except if you put your Intranet Webserver online before the LAN) but need to do that at the LAN. Advantage is that the LAN doesn't have to have an Internet access.
Yeah, sorry for the blunt "spamming" but their intranet system is real nice for running 'paid' parties. They provide you with: Party registration, automatic guestlist and seatplan (Scripts are hosted on their servers) and just before the LAN starts, you can download the data for your LAN (ie guests, their payment status, which seats they reserved...) and their Intranet scripts and install them on a webserver of yours. That way, people can login to your LAN Intranet where you can put up tournaments, a board etc.
And now for the killer: The tournaments practically run all by themselves. You enter their parameters and then users login and register for the tourneys. Start the tourneys and that's it basically. The scripts determine the start matches at random and have users enter the results according to which it keeps track of the players. (Double Elimination included)
Phew... got longer than expected. Anyway, if you want to, give it a try. We've run several parties with it (one with 250 players, the others with around 70) and it keeps saving us a lot of paperwork at the LAN.
Yeah, but don't get all too creative when fiddling with electricity, otherwise you'll see some fried extensions cords like we had. (I would have told him to unroll that cord before he plugs it if he had asked;)
Well, I'm not really sure what this article is geared towards: a small party, with 24 Port 10/100 Switches and a router with built-in DHCP? (Let's leave aside the fact that everybody with ICS could potentially be running another DHCP and cause a nice colliding mess;) Doesn't really fit IMHO. As an example: We're a small club running parties of about 70 players and all we have is a handfull of 8 Port Switches that we try to interconnect without bringing too many hops in between the computers.
If I buy a cell phone, it is next to useless without a service subscription of some sort. If I buy a wireline phone, it is a paperweight without a service plan from my local telco. My DSL does me no good if there's not a DSLAM at the other end of the line. We buy things that need subscriptions all the time.
All of that is true but the problem is that the TiVo ISN'T (!!!) useless without the subscription! However with the 'update' to the version 2 software TiVo have removed functionality from people they actually had nothing to do with. These are not subscribers, so, even according to TiVo, they are not their customers either... so why was TiVo modifying their hardware?
... The patent laws were created for one purpose -- to promote progress by encouraging the disclosure of inventions....
Unfortunately nowadays all they serve for is slowing progress by allowing companies to enforce monopolistic schemes on their technology and preventing anybody else from innovating anything if he doesn't reinvent the wheel first!
Well... new chipset and graphics power is all nice and that, but I got one major problem with the GF3: It's lacking features I currently have and use.
Jep, I'm one of those fools who bought a G400 when it came out and now I'm used to having 2 VGA outputs on one card, combined with a TV-Out for playing my DVDs or just running presentations on beamers... When going to a GF3 I will have to pay double the price my old G400 had when it was new only to lose my Dual-Head functionality.
Call me dumb, but I actually prefer staying with Matrox, especially as their cards are still being properly supported with new driver and BIOS releases, something which really annoys me with the nVidia Chipsets. (Let's face it, you buy a card from Elsa, Asus or whoever and they support it for 6 months after which any new drivers you'll be seeing are the nVidia reference ones, which of course lack all the extra features your specific card has.)
Anyway, the above is just my 2 cents. I'll be staying with my MGA G400 as long as I can and I hope somebody not nVidia releases a GF3 competitor card before mine gets unbearable.
>and you should use Explorer (unless you're a real masochist) over Netscape.
Well, I have the exact opposite here: Somehow IE is completely unable to perform POST and GET actions correctly through our firewall/proxy and I end up submitting forms twice and/or having to refresh 3 times until I get it to actually show me the result page instead of an 'document contained no data' message. So using IE here is a real pain (Netscape just plain works, it does crash at times, sure but so does IE)
As for the sites starting to be MS only, did anyone notice that all of a sudden a lot of amateur pages are done using Frontpage? (just because they don't know or don't want to learn how to write HTML and/or do an FTP upload)
In addition to that, I must admit that Netscape is in a bad shape at the moment and I explicitly blame AOL for that. Let's be honest: If I download a browser I DON'T WANT AOL Instant Messenger to install itself with it. (in Netscape 4.x there's not even an uninstall option so I need to delete it manually) And if I want to have Real Player I'll go to www.real.com and download it, the same goes for Winamp, Shockwave and whatever other crap AOL has put into the Netscape 6 distribution. (It had about 8MB when I downloaded Preview 1 and now its 25!) And let's not forget the rushed launch of Netscape 6 which IMHO was a severe mistake, it simply wasn't ready yet and now it is giving Netscape a bad reputation which will be hard to make up again later.
Well... I personally still use Netscape 4.5 and I will continue using it either until Netscape comes up with v6.1 (take the Gecko Engine, make the thing stable and throw out the bloated junk AOL added) or I get the hang of Opera. (Hoping that M$ won't be able to force me to use IE until then)
Slashdot Mirror
No, as I said I live in a very small country (Luxembourg) and we've only got DSL since end of last year. (in very few regions, in most of the country it's still impossible to get DSL and in the North cable is non-existent)
You must be kidding! Looking at a small site will undoubtedly result in a completely falsified result. If I took my logs as reference then 90% of the Internet users would be from Luxembourg.
...?) could possibly give some interesting results but you can never give anything representative. For example, there are people using NAT, people whose providers have .com, .net and .org addresses, people using satellite connections and so on and so on.
Sure, looking at a website that is pretty well known and internationally used (microsoft.com, slashdot.org, Google,
... you sure bet we do! I've been hearing about cable access and so forth in the US for years and I've only gotten my first 'boardband' Internet access (a measly 256/64 DSL line at around 75$/month) 2 months ago. Before there was simply no option (no flatrate, no cable, no nothing) and even now we're limited to only one DSL line provider given the fact that we still have got our telecoms monopoly.
At least the neighbouring countries are a little better off as their size and deregulation are now allowing for more and more competitors to enter the market.
Thanks a bunch for the tips. My glxinfo says:
:(
direct rendering: Yes
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI G400 20010321 AGP 1x x86/MMX/3DNow!
So: Yes, DRI and OpenGL are working (glxgears also runs fine at a bit more than 1000 FPS) but WineX is not.
Well... I'll see what my future card will do and till then I just keep my good ol' Win98 partition.
I'm not trying to start a 'which gfx card is better' flame war here, insert the IMO's below where applicable.
... I've probably got the newsmag with the German article lying around somewhere at home) ... that's why I mentioned them and that's the kind of politics that drives me away from nVidia.
n tral/new s/2793/1/t ml?tag=rn
;) ) but I hope to see a change in that with the new Radeon cards. (Some competition would IMHO be good for the market)
... mod it accordingly
Well you can say the bad TV Out is the manufacturers fault, I say it's nVidia's because they are allowing everybody to built a GeForce 4 with crappy signal quality and TV Outs. (Which is what most companies do: They get an nVidia chipset and then put only the cheapest components around it to remain competitive on the market)
The bashing of the Kyro chipsets was particularly bad and combined with threats to retire the manufacturers ability to get nVidia chipsets (Much like M$ does with Dell
As for the issue with 3dfx, here's a few links I found:
http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarece
http://news.com.com/2110-1040-256103.h
(I would sum it up as: nVidia infringes on 3dfx patents, nVidia buys 3dfx to get out of the lawsuit, 3dfx is never heard of again)
I for my part don't want an nVidia card even if they are the leading company in their segment (ie Microsoft for gfx cards). I'll admit that no other company has yet managed to produce a real competitive alternative to the GeForces (why do you think that I still stick with that old G400?
Moderators: the above is 'Off-Topic' and could possibly be interpreted as 'Flamebait'
Erm... if you read my original post you'll see that I do not have an nVidia card which is (I assume) the reason why WineX is working so poorly on my machine.
The idea of having a linux distro in the box actually reminds me of a game that Psygnosys once released. If I recall correctly it was called Novastorm and you had to boot it right off the CD (ie no hdd required). During boot-up it would look for patches on the HDD, run HW detection and then eventually load up the game.
I might be wrong about the above but I think it would be a nice idea if you could just insert a CD, boot the box and have the game come up. (just like consoles do) A downside would be the inability to run anything else in the background but at least I don't need any multitasking while I'm playing.
Well... I CAN play GTA3 under Win98 just fine (G400, 256MB RAM, Athlon 700) which is intriguing me as many of my friends with Geforce 2, 3, and 4 cards and CPUs far over the 1GHz barrier seem to have a lot of trouble with it. (the longer you play it the more it slows down...)
... leaked PowerPoint presentations showed them bashing the design-wise revolutionary Kyro and Kyro 2 chipsets ... they stole technology from 3dfx and only bought it once they got threatened by a lawsuit ...) and the video signal quality of their cards has always been pretty poor. (TV Out with the famous 2 black bars, which you can only make disappear using 3rd party software, is pretty bad as well)
A little off topic: The reason I'm not buying an nVidia card is that I consider them to be the Microsoftian monopolist of the gfx card market (They tried to buy out engineers from Matrox which would have killed that company
Anyway, back to topic: I've tried both the CVS versions, 2.0 and 2.1, and had no luck with them. They refused to compile until I found that I was missing some -dev files, IMHO they should really tell people that during configure, especially if there's Linux newbies like me around.
A friend of mine has tried the prepackaged version but his ATI card apparently didn't perform any better.
Yes I did and stuff that runs native (like Unreal Tournament) is working fine so I don't assume it's that.
The thing is: It doesn't work at all. Any games that require 3D just hang or fail with different errors. (Freespace II complains that you cannot launch it directly and when trying a start with the game's autorun launcher nothing happens)
I'll try and see whether it works better in a few months because I must admit that my current PC isn't up to todays standards any more. (Especially the G400)
I've tried WineX on my system and apart from being able to run the installers of the games it didn't help much. I managed to run Wing Commander Prophecy ... in software mode! All other games just didn't start or halted the entire system while trying.
I've read their FAQs and it seems they don't support anything but nVidia cards so as far as I can see I'm screwed with my Matrox G400. (And probably that also applies to my future Radeon 9700)
To me, WineX is a step in the right direction, but it's still far away from making games playable without me having to dual boot to my old Win98.
Erm... I don't know about you but when I'm running ed2k and tell it that it's max upload limit is 19kbyte/sec then it's upload limit is 19kbyte/sec and nothing more. Granted, it will somethimes peak over the given limit a little, so I just substract another kbyte/sec to get the 'reserved upload capacity' that I need for browsing et al...
Maybe somebody should patent the method of filing stupid patents for obvious methods? That way we could at least sue people when they get through with something like this ;)
I once had a CD-R that didn't get properly written (PC crashed during write) and that could be used to crash EVERY Windows PC in sight. You could disable Autorun and hold the Shift key as long as you wanted, as soon as this disk was inserted into a CD-ROM drive, the respective PC froze completely. (no CTRL+ALT+DEL possilbe, sometimes even the Power Button failed and you had to use the ATX emergency shutdown to power down the PC) I couldn't believe it!
Unfortunately I seem to have lost the bugger somewhere because it was a nice trick to show to colleagues. ("Hey I can crash your PC just by inserting a CD")
... that at some point in time the Hannover Messe A.G. (or what's it called) wanted to split up the CeBIT into two parts, one being the usual CeBIT, oriented towards businesses etc, and the other being the so called 'CeBIT Home' held explicitly for consumers and the like.
For this split up, they implemented a set of rules limiting the usual CeBIT to make it less attractive to consumers. As far as I recall Creative Labs were even considering not to attend the last CeBIT at all due to this. (after all they are more into the consumer market than anything else...)
In short, one of these rules forbids it to allow people to test and 'play' with Joysticks, Consoles, Games.... at the exhibitors booths. Putting stuff on display is allowed but no touching by the visitors.
Note: The above is all AFAIK and IIRC and may not be (completely) correct.
Well, if you consider the wayback machine as a time machine, if it were indexing itself it would probably create a rift in the time/space continuum, right?
;)
Erm.. I need a cup of coffee
... Which IRCd would you recommend? What are their advantages/disadvantages or better say, how do they compare in performing different tasks? Like: 'Which one is best for small LAN parties with up to 500 visitors?'
Any links or bits of information on this would be appreciated.
Hmm ... development on such a thing is hard, I know. I've seen several other systems (Intralan, LAS, ... sorry can't remember the URLs only the names) and they all seem to get stuck at a certain point of time or are just lagging behind LANsurfer which is IMHO the most feature loaded system until now. I didn't get to look at lanpartyonline.com but reading that they actually charge you for double elimination tournaments I think I prefer my free (as in beer) LS ;)
I did notice one difference though:
- Lanpartyonline.com has everything in the Internet, that way ppl can sign up for tourneys BEFORE the LAN but need Internet access at the LAN.
- Lansurfer.com has divided the stuff and put the tournament part into an Intranet Script. That way users unfortunately can't sign up before the party (except if you put your Intranet Webserver online before the LAN) but need to do that at the LAN. Advantage is that the LAN doesn't have to have an Internet access.
http://www.lansurfer.com
Yeah, sorry for the blunt "spamming" but their intranet system is real nice for running 'paid' parties. They provide you with: Party registration, automatic guestlist and seatplan (Scripts are hosted on their servers) and just before the LAN starts, you can download the data for your LAN (ie guests, their payment status, which seats they reserved...) and their Intranet scripts and install them on a webserver of yours. That way, people can login to your LAN Intranet where you can put up tournaments, a board etc.
And now for the killer: The tournaments practically run all by themselves. You enter their parameters and then users login and register for the tourneys. Start the tourneys and that's it basically. The scripts determine the start matches at random and have users enter the results according to which it keeps track of the players. (Double Elimination included)
Phew... got longer than expected. Anyway, if you want to, give it a try. We've run several parties with it (one with 250 players, the others with around 70) and it keeps saving us a lot of paperwork at the LAN.
Yeah, but don't get all too creative when fiddling with electricity, otherwise you'll see some fried extensions cords like we had. (I would have told him to unroll that cord before he plugs it if he had asked ;)
;) Doesn't really fit IMHO. As an example: We're a small club running parties of about 70 players and all we have is a handfull of 8 Port Switches that we try to interconnect without bringing too many hops in between the computers.
Well, I'm not really sure what this article is geared towards: a small party, with 24 Port 10/100 Switches and a router with built-in DHCP? (Let's leave aside the fact that everybody with ICS could potentially be running another DHCP and cause a nice colliding mess
If I buy a cell phone, it is next to useless without a service subscription of some sort. If I buy a wireline phone, it is a paperweight without a service plan from my local telco. My DSL does me no good if there's not a DSLAM at the other end of the line. We buy things that need subscriptions all the time.
... so why was TiVo modifying their hardware?
All of that is true but the problem is that the TiVo ISN'T (!!!) useless without the subscription! However with the 'update' to the version 2 software TiVo have removed functionality from people they actually had nothing to do with. These are not subscribers, so, even according to TiVo, they are not their customers either
http://www.pixaround.com will probably feel it too, right? Or do they have a license for Ipix technology?
... The patent laws were created for one purpose -- to promote progress by encouraging the disclosure of inventions. ...
Unfortunately nowadays all they serve for is slowing progress by allowing companies to enforce monopolistic schemes on their technology and preventing anybody else from innovating anything if he doesn't reinvent the wheel first!
Well ... new chipset and graphics power is all nice and that, but I got one major problem with the GF3: It's lacking features I currently have and use.
... When going to a GF3 I will have to pay double the price my old G400 had when it was new only to lose my Dual-Head functionality.
Jep, I'm one of those fools who bought a G400 when it came out and now I'm used to having 2 VGA outputs on one card, combined with a TV-Out for playing my DVDs or just running presentations on beamers
Call me dumb, but I actually prefer staying with Matrox, especially as their cards are still being properly supported with new driver and BIOS releases, something which really annoys me with the nVidia Chipsets. (Let's face it, you buy a card from Elsa, Asus or whoever and they support it for 6 months after which any new drivers you'll be seeing are the nVidia reference ones, which of course lack all the extra features your specific card has.)
Anyway, the above is just my 2 cents. I'll be staying with my MGA G400 as long as I can and I hope somebody not nVidia releases a GF3 competitor card before mine gets unbearable.
... using djbdns which apparently is much more lightweight and can handle a lot more load?
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html
Just a suggestion/question. Does anybody have experience with this one?
>and you should use Explorer (unless you're a real masochist) over Netscape.
... I personally still use Netscape 4.5 and I will continue using it either until Netscape comes up with v6.1 (take the Gecko Engine, make the thing stable and throw out the bloated junk AOL added) or I get the hang of Opera. (Hoping that M$ won't be able to force me to use IE until then)
Well, I have the exact opposite here: Somehow IE is completely unable to perform POST and GET actions correctly through our firewall/proxy and I end up submitting forms twice and/or having to refresh 3 times until I get it to actually show me the result page instead of an 'document contained no data' message. So using IE here is a real pain (Netscape just plain works, it does crash at times, sure but so does IE)
As for the sites starting to be MS only, did anyone notice that all of a sudden a lot of amateur pages are done using Frontpage? (just because they don't know or don't want to learn how to write HTML and/or do an FTP upload)
In addition to that, I must admit that Netscape is in a bad shape at the moment and I explicitly blame AOL for that. Let's be honest: If I download a browser I DON'T WANT AOL Instant Messenger to install itself with it. (in Netscape 4.x there's not even an uninstall option so I need to delete it manually) And if I want to have Real Player I'll go to www.real.com and download it, the same goes for Winamp, Shockwave and whatever other crap AOL has put into the Netscape 6 distribution. (It had about 8MB when I downloaded Preview 1 and now its 25!) And let's not forget the rushed launch of Netscape 6 which IMHO was a severe mistake, it simply wasn't ready yet and now it is giving Netscape a bad reputation which will be hard to make up again later.
Well
Greetings,
Lev