The difference is, HP intentionally killed the Touchpad. They bought the IP, released the product, and then lost their nerve. This is almost the opposite of what is happening with the RT.
It's STILL that high? Why is this even news? "Today the Surface RT went from really stupendously overpriced to merely shockingly overpriced." Move along, nothing to see here.
I wonder what Microsoft will do for customers who purchased a tablet right before the price drop?
MS should do nothing. They were among the few people to buy something above the value the market would ultimately be willing to accept.
This is not Microsoft's responsibility to deal with.
When you buy something, you should be doing your due diligence to make sure you are getting more in product value than cash value you are trading for it.
If you make a bad trade: it's not the manufacturer's duty to try and console you about your decisionmaking error.
Agreed. In all fairness, I feel the same about the iphone. I appear to be alone in that, though.
OK but when Microsoft says it "Plays for sure" you can be sure that it doesn't, otherwise they wouldn't put so much emphasis on a simple thing like playing music.
...and now the Microsoft marketing guys are overusing the phrase "it just works". Hmm.
That is not exactly true. I would want a Surface badly. However, the only version that has a worthwhile ecosystem of software is the Pro tablet (full Windows version). And the Pro tablet is about 4X overpriced.
If MS came to market with only 128Gb Surface pro, threw in a cover keyboard and priced the package at $300, then it would fly off the shelves. Just becuase they mis-priced the offering does not mean noone wants it.
True for the most part, although you still have to deal with Windows 8. Throw in Win7 and it's a deal.
Agree. The best thing for these devices is land fill. They have no purpose existing.
The hardware is interesting; it's the OS (Windows RT) that's sinking it. If we could figure out how to install something else, the device might get a new lease on life.
> the Surface had giant FAIL written all over it almost from the start
Well, the RT definitely did. I don't think it's clear yet whether the "Surface Pro" (or whatever they called it -- the one on Intel that actually runs Windows) is worthy of the FAIL sticker just yet.
It's important to keep the RT (WinCE warmed over) and the Pro separate. They're distinct products. Although, I wonder whether the RT is dragging the Pro down with it.
Right now MS adverts for the surface are nothing more than hipster dipshits dancing on a boardroom table and spining the Surface around. There is nothing infomative, nothing to tell the consumer why they might consider purchasing this vs. an Ipad or a decent Android tablet.
I have come to suspect the reason for this is that there is no reason to purchase this device, and they know it.
MS can't act like Apple. People already know why they might like to have an iPad. They either own one or have a fiend who does. Surface doesn't have familiarity to fall back on. It looks like an overgrown Zune and unless MS tells people otherwise they will assume it's just an "also ran" in the tablet race.
Slashing prices it nice but it reaks of desperation. I might be tempted to think they are dumping existing inventory prior to dropping the product line.
Oh, MS *can* act like Apple in this way, and I would fully expect them to. For a long long time, Microsoft ruled certain segments of the market, (still does, in fact) and "you'll buy it because it's Windows" has been ingrained in Microsoft corporate culture for so long that they can't help but continue to act like that, even in areas where it's clearly not working for them. It'd take a complete revamp of the culture in order to act differently.
Not only does the price drop smell like desperation, I suspect it's actually damaging in the long run, for the reasons you mention.
Hang on. The way the law reads, lethal force is allowed if a reasonable person in his position would think that their life is in danger. Zimmerman's head had been banged against the pavement, and in the opinion of one medical witness, one or two more impacts were likely to have killed him.
So, someone taller and younger (and evidently stronger) than you are on top of you and had at least once smacked your head into the pavement. At that point, I contend, a reasonable person would believe that their life was in danger. I would have.
Again, the requirement is that a reasonable person would believe that their life is in danger. They're not required to read the mind of the assailant and discover the assailant's true motives. This means, for instance, that if someone has every appearance of intending to beat you to death, you have a right to use lethal force, regardless of what his actual plans were.
Laughter. Yeah we're all Google shills, including the Mac heads and all the former Nokia fans still clinging to their N95s who will never forgive Nokia for killing symbian and the people whom were issued windows phones and revolted. (Seriously, reboot the phone after installing an app??). Yep, we all work for Google. It's a conspiracy. Nice try.
For the record, I'd switch back to blackberry in a heartbeat if the offshore Admins could figure out how to keep BES up. Still the best keyboard in the business, and the tightest integration with the company intranet, when BES was working.
What... hang on, really? We all hate Microsoft because they came out with a free browser? I'm.... at a loss for words. So.... we don't hate Opera for coming out with a free browser, or Google, or Apple, or Mozilla or Mobotap? Only Microsoft?
Here, let me connect some different dots.
a) Lots of us here in Slashdot are in IT.
b) This means that a high percentage of us have had to either do work-for-pay using Microsoft products, and/or been assigned Microsoft devices to use, and/or have had to support Microsoft products and/or devices. If you're in IT, you have a high likelihood to have had deep experience with Microsoft products in one way or another. Est donc le cas.
c) We're all just damned sick and tired of dealing with Microsoft's crappy products. The back end products are tolerable, but holy crap, the rest is junk.
d) We all hate Microsoft because we hate having to use and/or administer their products, and we deeply resent the various necessities that force us to. It really is that simple.
e) Profit! (I don't know how that part works, but lists like this always end this way.)
Mind you, nobody hates absolutely everything about anyone. I find Win7 tolerable, for instance, although I freely admit to a burning hatred for Win8. (And yes, I've tried it. I own a touchscreen laptop running Win8. Well, I say "running" but we haven't booted it in awhile.)
How precise does it need to be, I wonder? If the purpose is to avoid having the ship exceed its load specifications, I suspect it wouldn't have to be precise to the ounce.
...but he seems to have a blind spot or two. The mistakes Microsoft has made this century appear to have two threads in common -- the overriding conviction that We Are Microsoft, You Will Buy Whatever We Release, and its corollary, We Know What You Need And What You Don't Need. (ME, Vista, any number of Windows tablet efforts, Win8, any version of Windows Phone.) They've gone too long being to all intents and purposes the only game in town, and it's affected their basic strategies. They're a corporate-driven company rather than a user-driven company, and when something substantially better becomes available, users will migrate. It might take awhile, but it does happen.
Just for one example, the LG Nexus 4 [wikipedia.org] was introduced November 2012 with 4.2. C|net reports it was running 4.2.1 in January; it's currently running 4.2.2. So clearly 4.2 phones were available within days of its release. *And* amazon shows it as approx $150 cheaper than the Lumia. What is your definition of "none of the Android phones in my price range"?
But as much as I think I might be wasting my time, I'm mildly interested; what feature in 4.2 that 4.1 did not have that Windows Phone *does* have did you absolutely need? My Razr is still running 4.1. What am I missing? Should I be concerned???
Something you said in your original note:
> It also has wifi calling.
Um, I can't speak for IOS, but there's a bunch of Android apps to accomplish this, and have been for some time. I believe it's also a native feature of Google Voice. Not to mention, Skype has been available on Android since 2009. (With a company phone, I don't pay for minutes so I don't bother with this.) Now, it may be new on the Microsoft platform, so I understand why it feels like a new thing for you. But it's really not for the rest of us.
So again, what specifically about your Windows phone did you absolutely need, besides that it was Windows?
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The difference is, HP intentionally killed the Touchpad. They bought the IP, released the product, and then lost their nerve. This is almost the opposite of what is happening with the RT.
> The new price of the 32 gig Surface is $349.
It's STILL that high? Why is this even news? "Today the Surface RT went from really stupendously overpriced to merely shockingly overpriced." Move along, nothing to see here.
I wonder what Microsoft will do for customers who purchased a tablet right before the price drop?
MS should do nothing. They were among the few people to buy something above the value the market would ultimately be willing to accept.
This is not Microsoft's responsibility to deal with.
When you buy something, you should be doing your due diligence to make sure you are getting more in product value than cash value you are trading for it.
If you make a bad trade: it's not the manufacturer's duty to try and console you about your decisionmaking error.
Agreed. In all fairness, I feel the same about the iphone. I appear to be alone in that, though.
OK but when Microsoft says it "Plays for sure" you can be sure that it doesn't, otherwise they wouldn't put so much emphasis on a simple thing like playing music.
That is not exactly true. I would want a Surface badly. However, the only version that has a worthwhile ecosystem of software is the Pro tablet (full Windows version). And the Pro tablet is about 4X overpriced.
If MS came to market with only 128Gb Surface pro, threw in a cover keyboard and priced the package at $300, then it would fly off the shelves. Just becuase they mis-priced the offering does not mean noone wants it.
True for the most part, although you still have to deal with Windows 8. Throw in Win7 and it's a deal.
Agree. The best thing for these devices is land fill. They have no purpose existing.
The hardware is interesting; it's the OS (Windows RT) that's sinking it. If we could figure out how to install something else, the device might get a new lease on life.
Just wait... $149, nine months from now.
And by then, someone will have worked out how to install Android on it.
> the Surface had giant FAIL written all over it almost from the start
Well, the RT definitely did. I don't think it's clear yet whether the "Surface Pro" (or whatever they called it -- the one on Intel that actually runs Windows) is worthy of the FAIL sticker just yet.
It's important to keep the RT (WinCE warmed over) and the Pro separate. They're distinct products. Although, I wonder whether the RT is dragging the Pro down with it.
Right now MS adverts for the surface are nothing more than hipster dipshits dancing on a boardroom table and spining the Surface around. There is nothing infomative, nothing to tell the consumer why they might consider purchasing this vs. an Ipad or a decent Android tablet.
I have come to suspect the reason for this is that there is no reason to purchase this device, and they know it.
MS can't act like Apple. People already know why they might like to have an iPad. They either own one or have a fiend who does. Surface doesn't have familiarity to fall back on. It looks like an overgrown Zune and unless MS tells people otherwise they will assume it's just an "also ran" in the tablet race.
Slashing prices it nice but it reaks of desperation. I might be tempted to think they are dumping existing inventory prior to dropping the product line.
Oh, MS *can* act like Apple in this way, and I would fully expect them to. For a long long time, Microsoft ruled certain segments of the market, (still does, in fact) and "you'll buy it because it's Windows" has been ingrained in Microsoft corporate culture for so long that they can't help but continue to act like that, even in areas where it's clearly not working for them. It'd take a complete revamp of the culture in order to act differently.
Not only does the price drop smell like desperation, I suspect it's actually damaging in the long run, for the reasons you mention.
I wasn't planning to buy a Surface RT, but at these prices, how could I resist?
Just kidding. If they gave me one, I'd give it back.
Besides, that's not what "stand your ground" means.
Hang on. The way the law reads, lethal force is allowed if a reasonable person in his position would think that their life is in danger. Zimmerman's head had been banged against the pavement, and in the opinion of one medical witness, one or two more impacts were likely to have killed him.
So, someone taller and younger (and evidently stronger) than you are on top of you and had at least once smacked your head into the pavement. At that point, I contend, a reasonable person would believe that their life was in danger. I would have.
Again, the requirement is that a reasonable person would believe that their life is in danger. They're not required to read the mind of the assailant and discover the assailant's true motives. This means, for instance, that if someone has every appearance of intending to beat you to death, you have a right to use lethal force, regardless of what his actual plans were.
Sigh. Well, it happens to everyone occasionally. One of my better rants, wasted. I need a drink.
> "What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete."
That's a true statement. Show of hands: Who believes this will be fixed? Not eventually, but at all?
Oooh, excellent point. It calls to mind the old saying "Sincerity in business is very important. When you can fake sincerity, you've got it made."
Agreed. He'll probably lay low and pursue it after a change in administration.
But it's worth pointing out that we still outnumber them by quite a bit.
Laughter. Yeah we're all Google shills, including the Mac heads and all the former Nokia fans still clinging to their N95s who will never forgive Nokia for killing symbian and the people whom were issued windows phones and revolted. (Seriously, reboot the phone after installing an app??). Yep, we all work for Google. It's a conspiracy. Nice try.
For the record, I'd switch back to blackberry in a heartbeat if the offshore Admins could figure out how to keep BES up. Still the best keyboard in the business, and the tightest integration with the company intranet, when BES was working.
What... hang on, really? We all hate Microsoft because they came out with a free browser? I'm.... at a loss for words. So.... we don't hate Opera for coming out with a free browser, or Google, or Apple, or Mozilla or Mobotap? Only Microsoft?
Here, let me connect some different dots.
a) Lots of us here in Slashdot are in IT.
b) This means that a high percentage of us have had to either do work-for-pay using Microsoft products, and/or been assigned Microsoft devices to use, and/or have had to support Microsoft products and/or devices. If you're in IT, you have a high likelihood to have had deep experience with Microsoft products in one way or another. Est donc le cas.
c) We're all just damned sick and tired of dealing with Microsoft's crappy products. The back end products are tolerable, but holy crap, the rest is junk.
d) We all hate Microsoft because we hate having to use and/or administer their products, and we deeply resent the various necessities that force us to. It really is that simple.
e) Profit! (I don't know how that part works, but lists like this always end this way.)
Mind you, nobody hates absolutely everything about anyone. I find Win7 tolerable, for instance, although I freely admit to a burning hatred for Win8. (And yes, I've tried it. I own a touchscreen laptop running Win8. Well, I say "running" but we haven't booted it in awhile.)
How precise does it need to be, I wonder? If the purpose is to avoid having the ship exceed its load specifications, I suspect it wouldn't have to be precise to the ounce.
"And now, one wafer thin mint."
Sssh. You're interfering with his world view.
Just for one example, the LG Nexus 4 [wikipedia.org] was introduced November 2012 with 4.2. C|net reports it was running 4.2.1 in January; it's currently running 4.2.2. So clearly 4.2 phones were available within days of its release. *And* amazon shows it as approx $150 cheaper than the Lumia. What is your definition of "none of the Android phones in my price range"?
But as much as I think I might be wasting my time, I'm mildly interested; what feature in 4.2 that 4.1 did not have that Windows Phone *does* have did you absolutely need? My Razr is still running 4.1. What am I missing? Should I be concerned???
Something you said in your original note:
> It also has wifi calling.
Um, I can't speak for IOS, but there's a bunch of Android apps to accomplish this, and have been for some time. I believe it's also a native feature of Google Voice. Not to mention, Skype has been available on Android since 2009. (With a company phone, I don't pay for minutes so I don't bother with this.) Now, it may be new on the Microsoft platform, so I understand why it feels like a new thing for you. But it's really not for the rest of us.
So again, what specifically about your Windows phone did you absolutely need, besides that it was Windows?