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Database Loophole Lets Legislators Avoid Photo Radar Tickets
lemur3 writes "State legislators in Colorado have not been receiving speeding tickets due to inadequacies in the implementation of a DMV database. The current system ties plates to vehicles rather than to individuals, the special plates for legislators are issued to individuals. The result is that there is no entry in the database for the special plates when the automated photo radar system is triggered, this means nobody receives a citation. In one case a Colorado resident, who had vanity plates reading '33,' received the photo radar citations intended for Senator Mike Johnston representing district 33, whose vehicle was identified by a '33' on his special plate. Lt. Matt Murray of the Denver Police, speaking of the system commented, 'Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete.'"
Now this one is something that could easily fall into Hanlon's / Heinlein's Razor but it does seem a bit like somebody really favors the politicians these days.
I think Carl Sagan was wrong. The Universe is really out to get us.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The way this works in Germany is that two pictures are taken - one of the numberplate and one of the driver. I received a letter several years ago saying that my car had been caught speeding and that the driver was obviously not me - their face recognition software recognised a female driver. The photo was included and my (by then ex-) girlfriend paid the fine.
German courts do not consider the numberplate alone to be adequate ID, a practice going back decades.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Our system works, the database works.
System works as intended, by placing the responsibility of defense on the accused.
I wonder how long it took for that person with vanity plates 33 to get his ticket annulled. He probably had to go to court and speak to a clerk or two.
I am surprised they do not yet send occasional random tickets to 2%-3% in the database. What do they have to lose? Either the person would pay the fine or they would spend hours of their life trying to avoid paying it -- maybe they will be browbeaten into paying a fraction instead.
Why do legislators need special license plates? What sets them apart from us plebs in the rank and file? I'm sure that they don't have problems parking at the statehouse, so other than notifying law enforcement that they're 'special' why different plates?
...it'll take a year to fix.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Only you civilian fools would interpret its failure as not working. Our revenue is just fine.
If civil servants, bureaucrats, the private sector politically connected are getting plates that should be for lawmakers traveling between “legislative events” and using their personal cars would it really show? -
Could random vanity plate searches just be pointing to a more than a few having special plates?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Yes, please don't come here. We don't like you.
I wonder if you could successfully defend a photo speeding ticket in CO by showing that you didn't receive equal protection under the law.
I don't know how this is possible. Could someone explain ? Possible ?
Because they made the rules, so of course they made them to their own advantage.
Isn't Colorado supposed to have decent beer?
Accept the 1% "masters" feel you're nothing more than cattle - annoying cattle, nothing more: Accept that rules don't apply to the 1% fools - accept it, idiots! They are clearly above the law, this only shows you more of it, along with their political puppets. Get outta line?? We sick the IRS attack dogs on you, digging for dirt! Do more of that??? Well, then we just 'keep digging' by surveilling every move you make. Don't worry - we will merely "reinterpret" existing laws, putting a "spin" on what they actually mean, vs. what you're doing. Ah, yes - it is just easy to then make a "criminal" out of you (even though we as the 1%'ers create more criminality, death & thievery than all of you combined and on actual real crimes like murder - politicians commit to that, everyday). You? You're shit, and that, IS that. Now, how does that make you feel?? Angry??? You OUGHT TO FUCKING BE! You did this, to yourselves. You *think* the lying sociopaths in political power actually give a flying FUCK about what you think? LOL! All they care about is what anyone like them does: POWER, and CONTROL (it's their drug, and symptomatic of what's wrong with their kind inside - they know they're pulling shit, blowing out laws and rights folks supposedly are guaranteed, and getting away with it, because you LET them!).
.... about fucking retarded shitheads like this speaking in public and telling lies?
"Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete."
WRONG, fuckface. 1) If, according to the evidence, the system isn't working, then the system isn't working. Expected behavior: the correct person gets tickets. Observed behavior: the wrong person gets tickets. How can you say that "works"? 2) If a part of the SYSTEM isn't working (like the database), then the SYSTEM isn't working, because a SYSTEM is "a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole."
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
> "What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete."
That's a true statement. Show of hands: Who believes this will be fixed? Not eventually, but at all?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
No, that's Wisconsin, and Speeding/Redlight cameras are still illegal here. Although I'm sure it's only a matter of time.
Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete
You want me to write the SQL that will correct this for you? I think it'd take me about 10min, but I bill in whole hours so $200? We got a deal or do you want to continue on with this bullshit theory that you can't do anything about it?
In most states there are type codes for the different kinds of plates issued. Here in RI I know passenger is 01, amateur radio is 18, and so on. It looks like one of the databases is missing the type info.
Sounds as if he's got a one track mind.
Search for "Arizona gorilla mask speeder".
Another technique that have been successful is just shredding the ticket and claiming you never received it. Until they are willing to serve process on you they have no case. In most of the states with speed cameras it is all contracted out to whatever company the state/county/city hired to do it and the notices do not carry the same weight as something coming from the courts/police.
Colorado has one of the largest and most vibrant microbrew cultures in the country. I've heard Oregon comes close (Some people will even say it beats Colorado, but they are clearly biased), but I don't know... There's a ton of craft beers and neighborhood brew pubs in Colorado. And yes, a lot of it is very good. :)
Just make your plate say:
' ; (Drop Table sysobjects
Or something akin ..
Photo radar tickets in Colorado don't have to be paid anyway unless they go to the trouble of serving you in person, which they never do.
See... http://canauzzie.blogspot.ca/2013/07/removing-and-understanding-dinar-layers.html
Agreed that it is a continuum, but worrying about a few tickets when the Imperium itself will implode (or how you want to restore the Republic, take your pick) is silly.
It's a feature, not a bug.
the ticket is not issued by an officer at the time of the offense, it is not legal as far as I am concerned. Citations issued only on the basis of automated radar/traffic camera systems cannot assure that the person commiting the offense is the one that gets the ticket. Ticketing the registered owner of the vehical is just plain wrong, when someone else might have been driving the vehical.
Too many cities see traffic cameras and other automated systems to issue traffic tickets as a source of $$$ instead of considering the safety of drivers and the accuracy of giving the ticket to the actual offender.
All Automated traffic ticket systems need to be outlawed, especially traffic cameras!
...break it to him, but if legislators aren't getting tickets and innocent civilians are getting tickets that should be going to legislators then your system DOESN'T work. It's BROKEN.
Not that it should surprise anyone that these "special" plates are conveniently missing from the DMV database and/or treated differently than regular plates. Just an unfortunate coincidence or oversight I'm sure. Riiiiight.
You don't really believe this is a loophole do you? It's by design. Politicians are always making themselves immune to the laws they write. Even TFA agrees:
Lt. Matt Murray of the Denver Police, speaking of the system commented, 'Our system works, the database works.
Yes, the system and database works, anyone politically connected doesn't get tickets.
http://www.infowars.com/special-license-plates-shield-officials-from-traffic-tickets/
California DMV "Confidential Records Program," which was created 30 years ago to keep records of police officers private from criminals. The program has since expanded to cover "hundreds of thousands of public employees â" from police dispatchers to museum guards â" who face little threat from the public. Their spouses and children can get the plates, too.
Drivers covered under the Confidential Records Program abuse the system by evading toll road charges, running red lights at intersections with red light cameras, parking illegally, and breaking other traffic laws with impunity.
Sorry but the writer of the article is incorrect; Here is the pertinent quite from the law;
(II) If the state, a county, a city and county, or a municipality detects any alleged violation of a municipal traffic regulation or a traffic violation under state law through the use of an automated vehicle identification system, then the state, county, city and county, or municipality shall serve the penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for the alleged violation on the defendant no later than ninety days after the alleged violation occurred. If a penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for a violation detected using an automated vehicle identification system is personally served, the state, a county, a city and county, or a municipality may only charge the actual costs of service of process that shall be no more than the amount usually charged for civil service of process.
The notice has to be served in 90 days. Notice it states that " If a penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for a violation detected using an automated vehicle identification system is personally served...". That indicates that the notice need not be "personally served". That clause is there to stop authorities from effectively double fining by charging a high fee for personally serving notices.
Where if you're part of the "in team/club" laws don't apply to you! After all - those self-same above the law powers that be do such a "fine job" (not) of sending your jobs overseas and raising profits for their "own little club" in the 1%'ers at the same time. This takes away any small chance you had in "courts of law" (bullshit) where MONEY = LAW (there is no justice) since you can't afford to fight them. Understand 1 thing: The USA is in the clutches of the biggest class of scumbag criminals there has ever been. Do they lose their jobs for such "fine performances" like a failed economy that a child could fix if it's done honestly. Welcome to a place where if you "cross the powers that be" they will sick the IRS on you abusing their powers (& getting caught in it too, incompetent morons showing just what they're made of, just like their fine "economic plans" are doing too). That doesn't do it? No problem: We'll just surveil you and "reinterpret" laws that strip away your inalienable rights! We'll make a criminal of you yet with those means. Has Mr. Alexander or Mr. Clapper lost their job? No. Has the head of the IRS also?? Hell no. You sure will though! They'll just keep on downsizing, and then raising taxes too. The poor have no weapons and this is the means to create that situation and yes, it is all by design in this nation built on "rule of law" (funny how the wealthy are above that though).
It seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law.... I as an individual can't go out and get a personal plate assigned to me and not a specific vehicle. Furthermore; I would be subject to getting a ticket from the automated system.
My fellow legislators, this situation is an outrage. I have been receiving letters from my constituents angry that this legislative body has placed itself above the law, and that we are not subject to paying traffic fines like everyone else. I have promised my constituents that I will IMMEDIATELY take action on this issue. As such, I hereby move that my bill, Equality Under Law Act (EULA), be scheduled for a floor vote at the beginning of the next legislative session. Thank You. God Bless America.
Let the record show that this motion has passed unanimously. The Equality Under Law Act is hereby scheduled for a vote at the beginning of the next legislative session, subject of course to the standard legislative rules for indefinite postponement in the event that any legislator makes a motion to address urgent legislation, and that motion is seconded. We now move on to the pressing matter of a bill to rename local Post Office #128 as "Veterans Memorial Post Office".
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
or they should just stop wasting money and realize that speeding doesnt cause accidents
Then see if he still thinks it works.
He said drive each other's cars.
Which would in fact cover it.
As long as neither of you mention the other was driving your car, then your ticket gets thrown out since the driver obviously wasn't you.
Yes. But if your notice is served by mail and you ignore it, nothing happens unless they have you served in person. Which the OP contends they never do, and I'm inclined to believe that as long as the majority just pay up.
How about just sending all the tickets out and not excluding anyone "special"? If they had a valid reason to break the law, I'm sure they will be able to explain it to the judge on their day in court, just like everybody else. What makes people on a list more equal than others?
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
You're mistaking Colorado for a small-time place like Hangar 24 in Redlands, CA, which has better beer than the entire state of Colorado (and I've been through there many times during my west cast-east coast journeys.)
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
You want REALLY good beer? You want MICROBREW?
You go to Tennessee or Kentucky, where hops grow like nowhere else (excepting Matanuska Valley in Alaska and up in Napa Valley in California. San Fernando tries but their soil lacks quite a bit of good stuff that you won't find in commercial fertilizers.)
Anyone else thinking they've got 'the shit,' is full of shit.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Unless they send it certified there is a real question if it was properly served or not. Things do actually get lost in the mail. So if they just save cash by sending it by first class mail, they cannot swear that it was actually received.
As long as the money mostly flows in for minimum effort, they are unlikely to actually go to the trouble of making sure.
Thirty-three is the magic number.
Yes it is.
It's the magic number.
CORRECTION
'[PART OF] Our system works [AS EXPECTED], [WHAT DATA IS CURRENTLY IN] the database [APPEARS CORRECT]. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete.'
TRANSLATION
"Yeah. We kinda knew about that issue, but, as you can see, this proves the system we created works against most people. I am not so stupid as to actually fix this issue or admit that it's my department's fault, so I'll just kick the can down to the state folks."
"how conveeeneit".... Legislator plates are license to speed and courtesy if we smell alcohol but you aren't smashed......
But we know that the USPS takes pictures to track every piece of mail. Given that this would be a law enforcement effort I'm sure that the police could subpoena the records for the USPS for the letter in question. Good luck doing the same thing when something you send gets lost though.
Time to offend someone
There's more to certifying the delivery of mail than proving it was processed at the post office. Actual certified mail is tracked every step of the way, up until you sign for the delivery. My postman misdelivers mail all of the time; it'd be easy to claim I never got a particular piece of mail.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Oregon does beat it :P
I don't even like beer much, and there's some really good beer from my neighbor 25m away who makes his own, to a brewpub only another 50m further (I have a path through a stand of trees to the back end of the brewpub)
And we're one up on Colorado. No sales tax on beer here :)
Big enough to traverse on your hands and knees, I assume, with a couple of spots to stop and have a rest? ;-)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I know but was going for a joke that fell flat.
Time to offend someone
Fair enough. Sorry for beating it when it was down.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Behind your eyes? I'm surprised you realized it. That's the best you can come up with troll?? Do us all a favor: Go away.
Indeed!