i do use perl alot. a funny story about this is that when they decided to do their own hosting and switched servers, mid year i might add, they had no idea that they even installed perl. they didn't even know where it was!! i had to google to find out how to access it on iis. (of course, you can access perl from any folder, typical m$ functionality over security. plus, i discovered, accidentaly, perl operates at system level privelges, cgi can read/write anywhere!!) in fact one of the reasons is the lack of database access. it is their server!! so i had to put all the school news, homework, etc., etc., in flat databases. pita really. but anyways...i use perl for lots on the back end.
rather than the pissing match about perl has this, php that, first, see my earlier post about why php vs. perl
it's like this. a php page is simply a.html with a.php extension. if you never added on line of php code, and simply changed every.html link to.php, you'd not notice a thing. however, and i'm hardly some php guru, but you can do things like this: (forget all the DB suff, 'cause i do this with the homework pages for my school's website)
yo have a file, let's call it homework.hw ( a simple text file). i want to put the data on the page. now if i use perl, i have to call a cgi, and have a bunch of prints and maybe a bunch of heredocs, etc. then i have to basically do: open FILE, "homework.hw";while<FILE>;print; okay fine. but, in.php file, which is simply the exact same.html file, i simply use: <?php include "homework.hw";?> and viola. and of course, i use a perl/cgi form to create the homework.hw file. now, you can also create a link to the.php like this:
a href=index.php?teacher=smith
anf then the php looks like this:
<?php
include "$_GET[teahcer].hw";
?>
bottom line, use what your comfortable with. they are not competing. it's just taht php has some really useful aspects. not to satrt a flame war, but think of it as php->client-side, perl->server-side.
as i'm in the process of overhauling our school's site, what i like about it is the plugable nature of it. i create a series of modules, and include the in or not. also call them from GET or not. for instance:
i have been working with perl for a few years. so, a ocuple of months ago, i deccided to venture into php. plus, my school district just installed php onto their IIS (long story, freakin morons...) server. so, since i won't touch asp (whatever bastardized incarnation m$ decides this week) i figured i'd convert alot of our site to php. it has been for the most part fairly easy. but i still use alot of perl. especially for the flat file database stuff (since they won't give us even mysql).
here's what i discovered:
learning php was fairly quick, very similar to perl syntax
perl by a mile on regex. especially the default variable kind. php needs @_ and $_ in a big way. or am i missing something? shorter syntax, easier, at least for me.
list() is a nice command, but i'll take @_=split(/:/$_/) any time.
php is the SSI that perl could have been.
my point is this. i use perl to process much on the back end, maybe just 'cause i am so familiar. now, i simply save all my.html as.php. i don't see php as a perl replacement, but rather two complementary technologies. by themselves each is very powerful. but don't let this dissolve into a damn war over which language. use both. my $.02.
You could not patch WinSUX in order to continue running the OS you paid for.
sorry old sport, but you haven't read the fine print. you didn't pay for the OS, you paid for the license which grants the user (singular) the right, er, privilege to use it. and it is a privilege, because rights are not granted.
don't forget to mention that the recession started less than two months after Bush took office, while real gdp had been slipping for the past year. hmmm..... how come it isn't pinned to the predecessor, while the modestly, yet steadily, growing economy is called everything but.
something else to ponder. what has caused all the concern is not the economy, but the stock market. after being artificially inflated for several years, with all the 401k money having nowhere else to go (i.e. increased demand for same # of stocks -> higher prices), as well as lax reg. policy by former sec people, allowing corps. to consider stocks as assets, and manage their portfolios accordingly, paying stocks instead of salaries, and the change in practice where the price fo a stock was tied to the company's growth, now the company's growth is tied to the stock price (WTF!!).
people are concerned because we are an aging polulation. i.e. the number of people above the mean are greater than the number below, and the number of people retiring, is growing, and there will no tbe ample workers to replace them. and the retirement accounts are so heavily invested in the stock market.
that is where the angst comes from. also, all those.com dreams of those college freshmen in 1999-2000 are shot down like a duck on opening day, and they are pissing and moaning.
don't know if it's true, but it certainly is accurate regarding "pirating". i've long said that piracy was m$'s key to success. office was for so long "free". even if businesses paid for it. m$ was assured of a user base, that essentially got free training, thus making anything obsolete. (the bastards, they knwew it all along)
Re:easy to learn != easy to use
on
Ark Linux
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
most people say they "know PC's" of course meaning windoze. however, most of them have neither a) installed windows nor b) know but a few apps and don't know how to do the most basic things.
ask 100 windows users how to
change network settings
see what programs are running, and system resources used
add/remove programs at start up
99 of them will give you blank stares and tell you they have no idea. the problem is not that windows is "easy" because it isn't. it is what people know, and there's a HUGE difference.
linux doesn't need to be easier, because it is more than enough. no, i'm not talking about installation. we just need to get the camel's nose under the tent. most people who are familiar with computers and are not scared of them will be able to pick up quickly how to do things in linux.
C:\My Documents =/home/user
other than that, mozilla, OO, etc., the apps are more than sufficient.
this is wrong. the dual licensed program allows you to develop, extend, and redistribute the software without GPL entanglements. for instance: i am a teacher. i am thinking of writing a grade program using mysql and having a web component. let's say i wanted to keep the program closed, i can't do it with the GPL'd mysql. i can't redistribute mysql with the closed program. but, if i GPL the grade program, then i can redistribute mysql no problem. so, for the "privilege" of keeping my program closed and using mysql, i have to pay for it. so there is market value.
I can say without any reservation or doubt that Windows ME was more stable than any version of Mandrake that I have encountered.
dude, wtf are you smoking? i have an 4 year old k6-2 450/128mb box in my classroom running 8.2 that i do everything on, and it has been up for over 2 months. i have OO, moz, gimp, xmms, as well as apache/ftp/ssh all running concurrently. never had a glitch.
the beta comes as a 1 cd download. hopefully this is an omen for 9.1. mandrake has always been a bloated distro. sure, i like all the stuff, but more is not always better. better is better. fewew, better apps are the answer. make OO.org fonts better (RH did), fix up the menus a bit, and streamline a few things. a 1 cd distro has more than enough room fo rall the good stuff (think knoppix). you don't need 17 editors nor do you need 14 mp3 players. mandrake has been the "newbie" distro. it is where i started. and even four years later, it is still my distro of choice. i can tweak it (like any other distro) if needed. one cd is all that's needed.
Re:tco is irrelevant
on
Linux Is Cheaper
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
well, if i must respond to this:
first, i don't need you to tell me what my job is. i teach history and technology, and have been developing/sysadmining for several years, both windows and linux. i would suggest however, you get off your high horse and grab a whiff of your shit. it stinks, just like the rest of ours'. if you knew one thing about education, you'd realize that teachers do a helluva lot more, and need to, than just "teach". and for your edification, i am not a "teacher trying to be a technician". believe it or not, i actually know wtf i am doing. and no, dipshit, i'm not "experimenting", no more so than the LTSP, or K12LTSP, or Largo, Fl.
second, those machines had nothing to do with e-rate, so stop trying to act like you know something, 'cause you don't. they were old refurbs that we purchased from a reseller because we needed X number of computers per student for digital high school $. that included of course, any piece of crap computer laying around, the office computers, the old 486 we have running our voice mail, anything that would boot. and the money was used at our school? nope. at the high schools to turn them into "digital" high schools. money spent to put a computer on every teachers desk to run the new atendance program, shit like that. they knew from the start that those pieces of crap would not, could not be used. they didn't give a crap.
yes, i know it's gonna fail. and you almost have a good point, except that what do you think, people aren't gonan be able to learn how to admin a freakin linux box? you are right about the school techs. they are bottom of the barrel, for the most part. pay is crap, and no chance for movement, since most don't have a degree(no, i don't think that is important).
i'll give you a story. four years ago, we had a "pc" lab. no file server, nothing. students saved work to the desktop. had to always be at the same computer. half the time they lost their work. so in november, i install security software, lock the boxes down, and set up a linux/samba server using an a scrounged up pc and a couple of hard drives. every student had their own logon (simple to get a student list from sasi, write a perl script to automate adding users, config samba, etc.....) and it worked flawlessly, got hammered day after day, and never crashed until may when the district technidiots pulled the plug and f***ed the whole thing up. long story there. next week i get a dozen calls in my class where are the files, the printer, etc. i just laughed. it took them three years until we had a solution, and even konw, it still doesn't work right.
anyways, since you don't know me, nor i you, i'll just assume that you are an insecure mcse paper tiger since you talk so well out of your ass about being a technician. as mick foley says, "have a nice day"
go to fink.sf.net, install icewm, and then edit.xintrc to this:
#twm & /sw/bin/icewm &
for some reason, on my ibook, when i run even oroborosx, it doesn't immedaitely pick up mouse clicks. in gimp, i have to click twice to switch from one window to the next. not so in icewm. it's lite and fast and is actually fairly feature rich. there is nothing wrong with X11. i have only 256MB on my 700mhz ibook. i run X and aqua concurrently and have no problems. the biggest gripe about OO.org is it takes forever to load. they trashed the desktop, but they still kept the apps tied. if i load writer, i don't need the calc and impress libs loaded too. msoffice is "integrated" yet each are distinctly different apps. OO.org needs to do this.
in many organizations, especially government, lower expenditures are bad. my guess is that this holds true for many private corps too. i'm a teacher. every year my school is alotted X number of dollars for service Y. guess what happens at the end of the year to all unspent dollars. it goes back to the district. and next year, we get 95% X to spend. it is in our "best interest" to spend it all, and then some. in fact, our prinicpal has her dept. chairs come up with last minute lists months in advance, so that she can spend it before we lose it. does this suck? completely. so, anything that lowers costs will be looked upon as bad.
our district is a novell network. i have heard novell is a pretty good choice, but apparently, they screwed the pooch pretty badly. our win98 clients run dog slow, and need tons of maintenance. we have many problems, alot that just linger. so what do they do, hire technicians for every school. but guess what, ditrict level tech dept. gets bigger budget, tech admin has more stroke. you think he cares? no. he has no concern for costs. we have literally hundreds of old P120/32MB boxes, many purchased just to qualify for technology funds from the state. (don't get me started on that one!!)
i proposed turning some into X clients. hell, all the kids do is access internet type a paper or two. maybe put together a powerpoint show ( i teach 7th grade). of course the boxes go totally unused. in fact, 20 take up an entire lab. a complete f***in waste. i spoke to the district tech admin, showed him all that it can do, running X remotely from my classroom no less. he was shocked all i needed was $3K for a dual xeon server. he said no, primarily because he wouldn't control it. we would spend school funds, and we'd run it.
remember, that tco doesn't matter if you're not spending your money, and you have to spend it all.
hey baby,guess what, i can create a star wars origami.
really? i used to think you were a major loser geek dork. but,now, wow, you are 2KOOL, you are a an 37337 haX0R, take me now you big stud. give it to me like you never have before.
i am posting this from my ibook. i love it. of course i'm aware that there is more to porting than a recompile. the point was that i think that if apple added aqua/quartz on top of linux, it could be a real attractive match, many people have complaints with XFree. maybe that holds back alot of linux adoption. apple is never going to be able to, nor try to, compete with the $499 PC. but, that comptuer, running linux/aqua would be a very nice combination, and a formidable competitor to a wintel box. and then apple gets a slice of that pie. and there is something to be said for making a living on sales of an OS. i heard this company in redmond, washington...
since quartz/aqua is built atop a bsd core, why couldn't apple just recopmpile it to run under linux. it shouldn't be THAT hard. i can't comment about problems with X, since i have 7 xclients set up in my classroom that run great, but, i know that most desktops/users wouldn't need the client/server architecture, and would love to run something like aqua on x86. there is no reason apple can't sell it on top of linux. it wouldn't need to link to any gpl code, and if i'm not mistaken, it's already compiled under gcc. imagine a new P4 running linux with aqua on top. it requires no porting of darwin, it doesn't really cut into mac sales, and it would be easy to get apps like photoshop, dreamweaver, etc., ported. well, that's what i think.
Slashdot Mirror
1. xbox custer
2. ????
3. profit
i still don't know. of course i don't think anyone in redmond knows either. i keep thinking of the SNL bit,
"it's a desert topping, it's a floor polish"
i do use perl alot. a funny story about this is that when they decided to do their own hosting and switched servers, mid year i might add, they had no idea that they even installed perl. they didn't even know where it was!! i had to google to find out how to access it on iis. (of course, you can access perl from any folder, typical m$ functionality over security. plus, i discovered, accidentaly, perl operates at system level privelges, cgi can read/write anywhere!!) in fact one of the reasons is the lack of database access. it is their server!! so i had to put all the school news, homework, etc., etc., in flat databases. pita really. but anyways...i use perl for lots on the back end.
rather than the pissing match about perl has this, php that, first, see my earlier post about why php vs. perl
.html with a .php extension. if you never added on line of php code, and simply changed every .html link to .php, you'd not notice a thing. however, and i'm hardly some php guru, but you can do things like this: (forget all the DB suff, 'cause i do this with the homework pages for my school's website)
.php file, which is simply the exact same .html file, i simply use: <?php include "homework.hw";?> and viola. and of course, i use a perl/cgi form to create the homework.hw file. now, you can also create a link to the .php like this:
it's like this. a php page is simply a
yo have a file, let's call it homework.hw ( a simple text file). i want to put the data on the page. now if i use perl, i have to call a cgi, and have a bunch of prints and maybe a bunch of heredocs, etc. then i have to basically do: open FILE, "homework.hw";while<FILE>;print; okay fine. but, in
a href=index.php?teacher=smith
anf then the php looks like this:
<?php
include "$_GET[teahcer].hw";
?>
bottom line, use what your comfortable with. they are not competing. it's just taht php has some really useful aspects. not to satrt a flame war, but think of it as php->client-side, perl->server-side.
as i'm in the process of overhauling our school's site, what i like about it is the plugable nature of it. i create a series of modules, and include the in or not. also call them from GET or not. for instance:
to include a poll, simply do
<?php
if($_GET[poll]=="yes"){include "poll.php";}
?>
and the link looks like this:
a href="index.php?poll=yes&.......
so, my template is actually a single table, with 3 columns. anyways, it is a powerful tool.
here's what i discovered:
my point is this. i use perl to process much on the back end, maybe just 'cause i am so familiar. now, i simply save all my
You could not patch WinSUX in order to continue running the OS you paid for.
sorry old sport, but you haven't read the fine print. you didn't pay for the OS, you paid for the license which grants the user (singular) the right, er, privilege to use it. and it is a privilege, because rights are not granted.
next year, instead of that new powerbook, i want THAT!!
IBM Trials TCPA Chip Under Linux vs. Q*Bert.
screw my karma. if this was pac man or the pilot in defender though...
don't forget to mention that the recession started less than two months after Bush took office, while real gdp had been slipping for the past year. hmmm..... how come it isn't pinned to the predecessor, while the modestly, yet steadily, growing economy is called everything but.
.com dreams of those college freshmen in 1999-2000 are shot down like a duck on opening day, and they are pissing and moaning.
something else to ponder. what has caused all the concern is not the economy, but the stock market. after being artificially inflated for several years, with all the 401k money having nowhere else to go (i.e. increased demand for same # of stocks -> higher prices), as well as lax reg. policy by former sec people, allowing corps. to consider stocks as assets, and manage their portfolios accordingly, paying stocks instead of salaries, and the change in practice where the price fo a stock was tied to the company's growth, now the company's growth is tied to the stock price (WTF!!).
people are concerned because we are an aging polulation. i.e. the number of people above the mean are greater than the number below, and the number of people retiring, is growing, and there will no tbe ample workers to replace them. and the retirement accounts are so heavily invested in the stock market.
that is where the angst comes from. also, all those
iRobot. i went to the apple web site. there's no download link. what gives?
apparently they weren't connected with .NET enterprise software!!
/usr/bin:/usr/local
how many people pry in there anyways. apps install themselves there. oh yeah, no registry!!
think how many more times a day i can..........uhh, uhh, uhhh, ahhhhhhhhh
don't know if it's true, but it certainly is accurate regarding "pirating". i've long said that piracy was m$'s key to success. office was for so long "free". even if businesses paid for it. m$ was assured of a user base, that essentially got free training, thus making anything obsolete. (the bastards, they knwew it all along)
ask 100 windows users how to
- change network settings
- see what programs are running, and system resources used
- add/remove programs at start up
99 of them will give you blank stares and tell you they have no idea. the problem is not that windows is "easy" because it isn't. it is what people know, and there's a HUGE difference. linux doesn't need to be easier, because it is more than enough. no, i'm not talking about installation. we just need to get the camel's nose under the tent. most people who are familiar with computers and are not scared of them will be able to pick up quickly how to do things in linux.C:\My Documents =
other than that, mozilla, OO, etc., the apps are more than sufficient.
this is wrong. the dual licensed program allows you to develop, extend, and redistribute the software without GPL entanglements. for instance: i am a teacher. i am thinking of writing a grade program using mysql and having a web component. let's say i wanted to keep the program closed, i can't do it with the GPL'd mysql. i can't redistribute mysql with the closed program. but, if i GPL the grade program, then i can redistribute mysql no problem. so, for the "privilege" of keeping my program closed and using mysql, i have to pay for it. so there is market value.
I can say without any reservation or doubt that Windows ME was more stable than any version of Mandrake that I have encountered.
dude, wtf are you smoking? i have an 4 year old k6-2 450/128mb box in my classroom running 8.2 that i do everything on, and it has been up for over 2 months. i have OO, moz, gimp, xmms, as well as apache/ftp/ssh all running concurrently. never had a glitch.
the beta comes as a 1 cd download. hopefully this is an omen for 9.1. mandrake has always been a bloated distro. sure, i like all the stuff, but more is not always better. better is better. fewew, better apps are the answer. make OO.org fonts better (RH did), fix up the menus a bit, and streamline a few things. a 1 cd distro has more than enough room fo rall the good stuff (think knoppix). you don't need 17 editors nor do you need 14 mp3 players. mandrake has been the "newbie" distro. it is where i started. and even four years later, it is still my distro of choice. i can tweak it (like any other distro) if needed. one cd is all that's needed.
thanks. can i buy you a beer?
well, if i must respond to this:
first, i don't need you to tell me what my job is. i teach history and technology, and have been developing/sysadmining for several years, both windows and linux. i would suggest however, you get off your high horse and grab a whiff of your shit. it stinks, just like the rest of ours'. if you knew one thing about education, you'd realize that teachers do a helluva lot more, and need to, than just "teach". and for your edification, i am not a "teacher trying to be a technician". believe it or not, i actually know wtf i am doing. and no, dipshit, i'm not "experimenting", no more so than the LTSP, or K12LTSP, or Largo, Fl.
second, those machines had nothing to do with e-rate, so stop trying to act like you know something, 'cause you don't. they were old refurbs that we purchased from a reseller because we needed X number of computers per student for digital high school $. that included of course, any piece of crap computer laying around, the office computers, the old 486 we have running our voice mail, anything that would boot. and the money was used at our school? nope. at the high schools to turn them into "digital" high schools. money spent to put a computer on every teachers desk to run the new atendance program, shit like that. they knew from the start that those pieces of crap would not, could not be used. they didn't give a crap.
yes, i know it's gonna fail. and you almost have a good point, except that what do you think, people aren't gonan be able to learn how to admin a freakin linux box? you are right about the school techs. they are bottom of the barrel, for the most part. pay is crap, and no chance for movement, since most don't have a degree(no, i don't think that is important).
i'll give you a story. four years ago, we had a "pc" lab. no file server, nothing. students saved work to the desktop. had to always be at the same computer. half the time they lost their work. so in november, i install security software, lock the boxes down, and set up a linux/samba server using an a scrounged up pc and a couple of hard drives. every student had their own logon (simple to get a student list from sasi, write a perl script to automate adding users, config samba, etc.....) and it worked flawlessly, got hammered day after day, and never crashed until may when the district technidiots pulled the plug and f***ed the whole thing up. long story there. next week i get a dozen calls in my class where are the files, the printer, etc. i just laughed. it took them three years until we had a solution, and even konw, it still doesn't work right.
anyways, since you don't know me, nor i you, i'll just assume that you are an insecure mcse paper tiger since you talk so well out of your ass about being a technician. as mick foley says, "have a nice day"
go to fink.sf.net, install icewm, and then edit .xintrc to this:
/sw/bin/icewm &
#twm &
for some reason, on my ibook, when i run even oroborosx, it doesn't immedaitely pick up mouse clicks. in gimp, i have to click twice to switch from one window to the next. not so in icewm. it's lite and fast and is actually fairly feature rich. there is nothing wrong with X11. i have only 256MB on my 700mhz ibook. i run X and aqua concurrently and have no problems. the biggest gripe about OO.org is it takes forever to load. they trashed the desktop, but they still kept the apps tied. if i load writer, i don't need the calc and impress libs loaded too. msoffice is "integrated" yet each are distinctly different apps. OO.org needs to do this.
in many organizations, especially government, lower expenditures are bad. my guess is that this holds true for many private corps too. i'm a teacher. every year my school is alotted X number of dollars for service Y. guess what happens at the end of the year to all unspent dollars. it goes back to the district. and next year, we get 95% X to spend. it is in our "best interest" to spend it all, and then some. in fact, our prinicpal has her dept. chairs come up with last minute lists months in advance, so that she can spend it before we lose it. does this suck? completely. so, anything that lowers costs will be looked upon as bad.
our district is a novell network. i have heard novell is a pretty good choice, but apparently, they screwed the pooch pretty badly. our win98 clients run dog slow, and need tons of maintenance. we have many problems, alot that just linger. so what do they do, hire technicians for every school. but guess what, ditrict level tech dept. gets bigger budget, tech admin has more stroke. you think he cares? no. he has no concern for costs. we have literally hundreds of old P120/32MB boxes, many purchased just to qualify for technology funds from the state. (don't get me started on that one!!)
i proposed turning some into X clients. hell, all the kids do is access internet type a paper or two. maybe put together a powerpoint show ( i teach 7th grade). of course the boxes go totally unused. in fact, 20 take up an entire lab. a complete f***in waste. i spoke to the district tech admin, showed him all that it can do, running X remotely from my classroom no less. he was shocked all i needed was $3K for a dual xeon server. he said no, primarily because he wouldn't control it. we would spend school funds, and we'd run it.
remember, that tco doesn't matter if you're not spending your money, and you have to spend it all.
hey baby,guess what, i can create a star wars origami.
really? i used to think you were a major loser geek dork. but,now, wow, you are 2KOOL, you are a an 37337 haX0R, take me now you big stud. give it to me like you never have before.
i am posting this from my ibook. i love it. of course i'm aware that there is more to porting than a recompile. the point was that i think that if apple added aqua/quartz on top of linux, it could be a real attractive match, many people have complaints with XFree. maybe that holds back alot of linux adoption. apple is never going to be able to, nor try to, compete with the $499 PC. but, that comptuer, running linux/aqua would be a very nice combination, and a formidable competitor to a wintel box. and then apple gets a slice of that pie. and there is something to be said for making a living on sales of an OS. i heard this company in redmond, washington...
since quartz/aqua is built atop a bsd core, why couldn't apple just recopmpile it to run under linux. it shouldn't be THAT hard. i can't comment about problems with X, since i have 7 xclients set up in my classroom that run great, but, i know that most desktops/users wouldn't need the client/server architecture, and would love to run something like aqua on x86. there is no reason apple can't sell it on top of linux. it wouldn't need to link to any gpl code, and if i'm not mistaken, it's already compiled under gcc. imagine a new P4 running linux with aqua on top. it requires no porting of darwin, it doesn't really cut into mac sales, and it would be easy to get apps like photoshop, dreamweaver, etc., ported. well, that's what i think.