I develop software and cryptosystems for a living. The amount of time I spend "working on me box" is miniscule to the time I spend "working with me box".
Well la-dee-freakin-da. Are you trying to convince yourself what a good decision Gentoo was by insisting all of us who are trying to discuss FC turn around and say "you're right, Gentoo is so much cooler with it's lack of GUI installer!"? Give it a rest. The reason people over-generalize it is because of people like you who can't seem to let us discuss something else.
If you're setting up dual boot, and have the images on a partition that FC can read natively (not NTFS) you don't need to burn the images. You can do a hard drive install and tell anaconda where the ISO files are. You can also do an NFS install this way, just share the folder containing the ISO images. Not sure why CIFS/SMB doesn't support this, but you can install MS SFU (Free download) to get a good NFS server on Windows.
Why not pony up $650 and buy 5 individual copies then? By buying the family pack, you are "depriving" Apple employees of $450 that they would have made if you paid for each license individually.
Because they know that as humans, people will feel cheated for not getting a volume discount and having to have 5 identical CDs and just pirate instead. Apple is simply increasing the profit margin on a box with 1 CD by putting more licenses in it (probably just costs extra ink) and customers get to know they're doing the legal thing and getting a good deal to boot.
Then why isnt there a "common" version where you can install, log in to the terminal, and then apt-get install whichever one you want from there?
Because that's a lot of stuff to download over dialup. They could maintain 3 ISO images: base; ubuntu-desktop; and kubuntu-desktop. But to include both might not fit neatly on one CD. So they split it out to keep it down to one disc.
I tried apt-get install mozilla-thunderbird and didn't think of just thunderbird
That's what the `apt-cache search <keyword>` is for.;) You can also search by keyword in synaptic, just click the search button in the lower left corner (Ubuntu Update Manger is not the same as Synaptic, same menu, different items).
if you have one and install the other, will both options (kde & gnome) be available as sessions, or are they mutually exclusive [in the case of ubuntu]?
They're both available as sessions and mostly play well with each other.
uninstall one of the core libs and voila the desktop goes away as well. kde-libs for instance
Yeah, but people not familiar with it won't know that. All they'll know, at first, is that the package they installed (kubuntu-desktop) can't be uninstalled except in name. I do understand why (both the -desktop packages depend on a lot of core packages that aren't specific to one or the other), but it's not quite intuitive to unexperienced users. You can't make the individual apps depend on kubuntu-desktop or you'd have to pull down the whole thing just to get3 a single app and that's no good. Maybe extend APT's remove logic to support a defined list of packages to remove when removing a virtual.
Problem, most newbies are going to want to dual boot. From experience this is a no-go with ubuntu.
If I recall you previous comment correctly your foray was with Warty. Warty had a bunch of co-existence problems which were fixed.
I have no idea what the file type problem could be. I can tell you that I haven't come accross anyone with the same problem. I'm pretty certain it uses both file extension and MIME type, so maybe the ISO files that were treated as MP3s were written with a different tool than the rest and had something confusing in the header.
anyone else see the irony in a linux distribution known for its LiveCD requiring manual editing of config files for upgrades?... all I do is emerge sync, make a symlink to the new distribution, and do a couple emerges
How is that any less manual? In Ubuntu it's edit sources list (making the new symlink), apt-get update (emerge sync, to sync package lists I assume), and apt-get dist-upgrade.
And no, I don't see the irony, Alanis. A LiveCD is a static copy. Why would you expect to be able to runtime upgrade it to a new release at all, much less without editing anything?
Firefox 1.02 a feature? It takes me 10 seconds to download and about a minute to install.
The Mozilla.org installer doesn't include menu entires for gnome or kde. Any other system inegration features like icons and look/feel. But the menu icon is the biggest reason.
so: www.google.com-->"ubunto thunderbird" and then downloaded a.deb file and installed it from the command line, and its really nice.
You should always do `apt-get update && apt-cache search <keyword>` before looking for a.deb off google. I believe Thunderbird is in the main repository for hoary.
There's no simple way to remove one or the other, though. I decided to check out kubuntu-desktop. And it's pretty neat, but I like gnome. So then I went to apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop. And it removed just that meta-package. So I had to use synaptic to show my every installed package related to KDE and hand pick each one to be removed. Ugh.
If you just want a couple of KDE apps, and want them to look decent, you can grab kubuntu-default-settings.
I never said FireFox did the toolbar first. I just put context around IE having a toolbar first. I was never trying to correct you or prove you wrong or anything like that, just add supplemental information in case someone else took your initial statement out of context and came to the wrong conclusion.
Perhaps you don't know what the status bar is, and that's why you seem confused about my statements. It's at the bottom of the window, is either always on or always off. The toolbar you're talking about is contextual (it appears when a popup has been blocked) and shows up in the web page rendering area. If you go to this page in both browsers you will get the informational toolbar, but also look at the bottom-right corner and notice an icon appeared. That is the status bar icon, which existed in Firefox before IE had any popup blocking.
I'm talking about the information bar-- directly copied/borrowed from Internet Explorer's SP2 changes; what are you talking about?
The same thing. Firefox had popup blocking first. They used a status bar icon (akin to the padlock for secure sites) that let you unblock a site for popups, or to show the individual popup. Then IE SP2 added the same popup block features, and used a toolbar instead of a status icon. Then Firefox added a similar toolbar. Now both have a toolbar and status bar icon, both of which do the same thing. Microsoft just added a slightly more visible interface to the functionality.
I just wanted to clarify exactly what Microsoft did first in IE vs Firefox.
Internet Explorer did; FireFox "borrowed" the concept.
The only thing that was borrowed was making a toolbar to complement the status bar icon that already had all the functionality of IE's toolbar. Both toolbars have an option to be hidden, in which case the status bar icon is used, which Firefox had first.
If I recall correctly, CentOS exists because White Box has such a big time lag. I believe the original packager of CentOS is a former WBEL user who made a lot of noise on the mailing lists with no effect.
He claims he just intended to share his stuff with several friends and it accidentally got out. How do you prove the opposite "beyond the reasonable doubt" in a criminal court?
Show that he didn't implement any restrictions on who could access the torrent, that he announced the torrent's availability in a public, high-traffic location,...
And, FYI, I tried to use both Firefox/Thunderbird's installers, and the package management system that came with the various distributions. No dice
I'm curious what versions of which distributions, do you recall?
Hell, other than the various flavors of Linux, I don't know of a modern OS that doesn't handle new applications correctly.
None of the major operating systems "handle" new applications by adding menu entries. The installer that you use does that. The Firefox and Thunderbird installers from mozilla.org don't, and it is something they should add, you're right. But the official packages for firefox and thunderbird from all the major distributions I've tried (Fedora 1-3, Ubuntu Warty, Suse 9.1) do add menu entries.
It's nothing specific to the tool being used to do the installation, the user doing the installation, the OS the application is being installed on, or the actual application. The responsibility lies solely with whoever packaged the installation media that you are using.
Is Halliburton big enough? Lots of IT stuff happens company-wide.
Everything is IE only.
that's kinda what I said, why else would they have to rewrite them to not be IE only if they weren't IE only in the first place? And the existence of you friend hardly negates the press on IBM's migration.
It will be interesting to see what obstacles Novell encounters compared to IBM. The last thing I heard about IBM's transistion was that they are rewriting all their internal web applications to no longer require Internet Explorer.
Slashdot Mirror
Well la-dee-freakin-da. Are you trying to convince yourself what a good decision Gentoo was by insisting all of us who are trying to discuss FC turn around and say "you're right, Gentoo is so much cooler with it's lack of GUI installer!"? Give it a rest. The reason people over-generalize it is because of people like you who can't seem to let us discuss something else.
If you're setting up dual boot, and have the images on a partition that FC can read natively (not NTFS) you don't need to burn the images. You can do a hard drive install and tell anaconda where the ISO files are. You can also do an NFS install this way, just share the folder containing the ISO images. Not sure why CIFS/SMB doesn't support this, but you can install MS SFU (Free download) to get a good NFS server on Windows.
Because they know that as humans, people will feel cheated for not getting a volume discount and having to have 5 identical CDs and just pirate instead. Apple is simply increasing the profit margin on a box with 1 CD by putting more licenses in it (probably just costs extra ink) and customers get to know they're doing the legal thing and getting a good deal to boot.
ah, that makes much more sense.
Because that's a lot of stuff to download over dialup. They could maintain 3 ISO images: base; ubuntu-desktop; and kubuntu-desktop. But to include both might not fit neatly on one CD. So they split it out to keep it down to one disc.
That's what the `apt-cache search <keyword>` is for. ;) You can also search by keyword in synaptic, just click the search button in the lower left corner (Ubuntu Update Manger is not the same as Synaptic, same menu, different items).
They're both available as sessions and mostly play well with each other.
Yeah, but people not familiar with it won't know that. All they'll know, at first, is that the package they installed (kubuntu-desktop) can't be uninstalled except in name. I do understand why (both the -desktop packages depend on a lot of core packages that aren't specific to one or the other), but it's not quite intuitive to unexperienced users. You can't make the individual apps depend on kubuntu-desktop or you'd have to pull down the whole thing just to get3 a single app and that's no good. Maybe extend APT's remove logic to support a defined list of packages to remove when removing a virtual.
If I recall you previous comment correctly your foray was with Warty. Warty had a bunch of co-existence problems which were fixed.
I have no idea what the file type problem could be. I can tell you that I haven't come accross anyone with the same problem. I'm pretty certain it uses both file extension and MIME type, so maybe the ISO files that were treated as MP3s were written with a different tool than the rest and had something confusing in the header.
How is that any less manual? In Ubuntu it's edit sources list (making the new symlink), apt-get update (emerge sync, to sync package lists I assume), and apt-get dist-upgrade.
And no, I don't see the irony, Alanis. A LiveCD is a static copy. Why would you expect to be able to runtime upgrade it to a new release at all, much less without editing anything?
The Mozilla.org installer doesn't include menu entires for gnome or kde. Any other system inegration features like icons and look/feel. But the menu icon is the biggest reason.
You should always do `apt-get update && apt-cache search <keyword>` before looking for a .deb off google. I believe Thunderbird is in the main repository for hoary.
There's no simple way to remove one or the other, though. I decided to check out kubuntu-desktop. And it's pretty neat, but I like gnome. So then I went to apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop. And it removed just that meta-package. So I had to use synaptic to show my every installed package related to KDE and hand pick each one to be removed. Ugh.
If you just want a couple of KDE apps, and want them to look decent, you can grab kubuntu-default-settings.
It only shows up when I log in. I close the popup and it's done with until I next log in.
talking about poissoning
So DJB was talking about distributing, and not fishing?
llama is a really hard word to fart.
Perhaps you don't know what the status bar is, and that's why you seem confused about my statements. It's at the bottom of the window, is either always on or always off. The toolbar you're talking about is contextual (it appears when a popup has been blocked) and shows up in the web page rendering area. If you go to this page in both browsers you will get the informational toolbar, but also look at the bottom-right corner and notice an icon appeared. That is the status bar icon, which existed in Firefox before IE had any popup blocking.
There, we're both right! :p
The same thing. Firefox had popup blocking first. They used a status bar icon (akin to the padlock for secure sites) that let you unblock a site for popups, or to show the individual popup. Then IE SP2 added the same popup block features, and used a toolbar instead of a status icon. Then Firefox added a similar toolbar. Now both have a toolbar and status bar icon, both of which do the same thing. Microsoft just added a slightly more visible interface to the functionality.
I just wanted to clarify exactly what Microsoft did first in IE vs Firefox.
The only thing that was borrowed was making a toolbar to complement the status bar icon that already had all the functionality of IE's toolbar. Both toolbars have an option to be hidden, in which case the status bar icon is used, which Firefox had first.
If I recall correctly, CentOS exists because White Box has such a big time lag. I believe the original packager of CentOS is a former WBEL user who made a lot of noise on the mailing lists with no effect.
Show that he didn't implement any restrictions on who could access the torrent, that he announced the torrent's availability in a public, high-traffic location, ...
I'm curious what versions of which distributions, do you recall?
Hell, other than the various flavors of Linux, I don't know of a modern OS that doesn't handle new applications correctly.
None of the major operating systems "handle" new applications by adding menu entries. The installer that you use does that. The Firefox and Thunderbird installers from mozilla.org don't, and it is something they should add, you're right. But the official packages for firefox and thunderbird from all the major distributions I've tried (Fedora 1-3, Ubuntu Warty, Suse 9.1) do add menu entries.
It's nothing specific to the tool being used to do the installation, the user doing the installation, the OS the application is being installed on, or the actual application. The responsibility lies solely with whoever packaged the installation media that you are using.
Is Halliburton big enough? Lots of IT stuff happens company-wide.
Everything is IE only.
that's kinda what I said, why else would they have to rewrite them to not be IE only if they weren't IE only in the first place? And the existence of you friend hardly negates the press on IBM's migration.
It will be interesting to see what obstacles Novell encounters compared to IBM. The last thing I heard about IBM's transistion was that they are rewriting all their internal web applications to no longer require Internet Explorer.
because that sounds like the south park councelor visiting africa, rather than the KDE version of ubuntu.