--this is true except for two points. As a proof of concept platform they can be shown to work. The US will most liklley go back to a 24/7 aircap of planes in the air. We did that from the early cold war until some time in the clinton administration. We ALWAYS had some bombers in the air. They could conceivably do that with these new birds once they have a fleet of them. Point two, I don't see anyplace in the fine print that says you couldn't use these against normal old aeryplanes, or ground based targets for that matter. I mean it IS the deathray thing, and it's still in the musket stage as far as it's evolution is concerned. It's only going to get more powerful and easier to aim and have more bool-eets in the clip with advancing technology, to mangle an analogy.
With that said, I am more askeered right now of my own government than anything else. That scripted "question and answer" dog and pony show last night was pure fiction. Slick, but still fiction. Wasn't a single hardball question asked. He had the questions in front of him and was calling on the reporters in turn off a list, then just reading the canned answers. He's worked on his delivery, it's getting better and the scriptwriters are getting better but it's still *acting*. Notice he said it was "his government". I thought that was cute. The skeery part is he BELIEVES THAT.
All in all though, my opinion is we need a missile defense, it's just a natural logical progression. Within 10 to 15 years the planet earth gonna have to decide once and for all who is getting the oil and who ain't, because there SURE ain't enough so that 6 billion people will all have cars and central heating and whatnot, it just slap ain't gonna happen. And china gonna be RIGHT there with the huge giganto army, all the tech their manufacturing plants can pump out, and a need for oil and water they can't ignore. Things gonna get pretty interesting then, if not even before then.
What we need more though right now besides missile defense is to get rid of the D and R parties,never elect another one to even tree warden or dogcatcher, they stole the government and run it like warring gangs on crack and booze...waitaminit, I bet that's part of it! It's..embarrasing. And we need to stop letting the CFR and those sortsa folks determine how our government should be. It ain't their government.
Ya, I know, wishful thinking, computerised voting just blew any chance we had of true reform, that and all the military following ANY order they are given no matter how illegal or unconstitutional, and congress being lapdogs.
Sorry for the ramble, just events lately are looking pretty lame, stupid and dangerous to me, and what is really bogus is I predicted this stuff(some in writing, some I just remember thinking back then and talking about) happening way back when I was in junior high in the early 60's, and it more or less has come true right on schedule. And I am NOT looking forward to the domestic attacks that will be starting once he invades, I give that a pretty fair odds-on of happening now. Saddam is a nutcase, but he's one of dozens you can point at, and not really all that powerful.
This whole war deal is in layers of political and economic reality, last night got itterated the very top most superficial layer, IMO..
sure nuff man that is ridiculous expensive. Live off campus then, 800 clams for a room is way way way too expensive, you can get a house note for that kind of money, let alone a couple of people sharing one at 1600$ a month.. I'd even consider just another college at those kinza prices. So I'll agree with you there.
I think this will get sorted out soon all over pretty quick anyway, the US and the rest of the planet is undergoing an economic reversal. I think you are going to see prices drop severely sometime soon on just about everything as people wake up to the fact that "some" job at a reduced rate is a WHOLE lot better than *no job*. The situation in the US right now in particular is worse than the situation that was happening in roughly the late 20's. Just no one wants to really admit it, except for the people who are in a true "depression" from their personal job loss. There are going to be some MAJOR shakeups in people's pre conceived paradigms and personal sense of what priorities are. If you read what warren buffet is saying lately, you'll see he agrees and gives some details to that point of view. We aren't going to collapse to caveman levels, but we have only burst ONE bubble of several,that was the overvalued stock bubble, there's still to come the pension bubble, the real estate bubble, the banking derivatives bubble, the petroinflated dollar as opposed to the euro dollar and muslim gold dinar mess, and the rest of the accounting/corporate illegalities bubble. Add in governmental completely out to lunch spendingand meddling,and we got some more rough times ahead, which will probably last at least a decade or even longer, much longer if the world can't avoid a series of major resource wars over oil and water.
http://www.skylights-of-hawaii.com/news/page4.ht ml
No electricity required, about as "natural" as you can get for lighting. Obviously only useful during the daylight hours, but a good way to get that natural light that humans absolutely need for both good physical health and psychological health. And you can grow plants then as well down there without using additional electricity or artificial light. And here's a tip, once when all I had was an apartment, I wanted a garden, a veggie garden. So I just went for it, instead of "normal" house plants I grew like 6 foot tall staked tomatoes, etc inside. People always liked it when they came over, and it actually provided some nice fresh salad action. I had tomatoes and pole beans and peas and cukes, etc all growing inside in front of windows. Was really neat! The coolest one was a large rose bush, quite the nice odor inside a small room.
Googling will find you more sources for these and different lighting ideas. All of them more or less use a periscope type action with just ultra shiny pipes to move the light around, and there is a japanese company I have forgotten the name of now though that uses fiber optics to pipe sunlight around to various places inside office buildings.
--I'll take your point. Deal is, what REALLY is the cost? It is not clear if this is a net loss for the uni, a more or less break even, or if they lose serious and substantial money or actually even turn a profit. I would HOPE they would adjust it so they made a slight profit yearly, and then in turn use said profit every year by putting it back into purchaising both better deals in bandwith (benefits the students that way) and also improving the quality of their hardware (again, benefiting the students).
Yet again another car analogy. It's cheaper this quarter to NOT change your oil, do tune ups and never buy new tread. It's short range cheaper, long range pretty expensive. I would think that at those prices that the students would exercise a tad more adult control over their surfing, and also be willing to help make surfing in general better for all so they can easily then share in better quality and cheaper bandwith.
Some of the work arounds I saw had decent merit. Such as the geeks downloading ISOs and proggies could have a centralised method to do it, then burn copies and sneaker net them around. Music and movie fiends the same. I would guess a lot of the downloading is really wasted duplifications of effort. Similar to how it's better deal chow-wise to work through your local food coop, or to share rents, etc, using the electronic resources could be more peasurable, not cost as much, and not give the uni any excuses to freak out or 'clamp down on bandwith hogs' like they are threatening.
--250$ for all that bandwith for a year? I pay roughly 20 clams a month for dialup in my rural area. I have my choice of that or I guess some satellite thing at a ridiculous cost. That's roughly the same they are paying now at cornell for high speed, no wonder it's cost effective solution.. Why stop there, subsidised gasoline, subsidised groceries? And it's less than a dollar? Maybe they should try an even dollar a day, 365$ a year? I fail to see how anyone could complain over broadband for a buck a day, I'd pay that if I could even get it.
I got a better idea for the uni, stop providing bandwith at all, fergettitaboutit, let the market and the individual students decide, let the local ISP's in that area duke it out instead, OR, cornel charge what it really costs, which has got to be more than that 250$ a year.
multi tier pricing based on expected usage and unexpected usage. Seems like you should have a mechanism in place to deal with this sort of thing. You have a customer who's normal traffic is x. All of a sudden they are getting pretty severe traffic like x times 5 or something that makes it look like they are going to max out their alottment with most of the month left to go. If it was ME as the customer,knowing I was going to get hit with a huge and unexpected bill, I would think it *nifty* if you either throttled it back or even shut connections off until the customer was notified or a better analysis was obtained of what was going on. And you can offer both, one way the customer knows they are liable for their bandwith, period, their decision to make, they will chance it and they want their site UP no matter what. Swell.. Another plan, they agree in advance for you to take action on their part if something goes real screwy and they are getting DOSed or whatever. Seems fair enough and easy enough to have that in a written contract.
I went through something like this with a roomate and long distance bills. The roomates friend came to visit, stayed a week. My bill was literally 10 times larger than normal at the end of the month,500 something as opposed to a more normal 40 to 50$, the so called friend of the roomate had split well before the bill came in and disappeared, no one but ME to pay the bill, the other roomate didn't care, said "too bad, not my fault, I didn't do it", and no arguing with the phone company over it. I SURE would have liked to have had the option with the phone company (and if I had thought to ask obviously) that if all of a sudden the bill was going through the roof that a courtesy call was dropped to the home verifying this huge jump in traffic. Something like that anyway, a cap of sorts. I could have nipped it in the bud before it became outrageous.
And no, it wasn't any phone nookie 900 #'s, this person thought they were some kind of business typhoon and just made calls all over heck just constantly when no one was around trying to set up of all things "music business deals" I found out later adfter I just called a few of the listed long distance charges #'s up to see WHAT all the calls were about. Needless to say I soon thereafter stopped having those sorts of roommates and so called "friends".
--I don't download mp3s or movies, so we'll get that out of the way FIRST.
When I was a kid, you had a clear cut choice in the record store, and that's ALL we had really was records. There was some reel to reel tape action, but basically it was records and the am radio. You could get EITHER an album on 33 size OR a 45 that had two tunes on it. I can't tell you how much of the albums were wasted space, so a lot of 45 "singles" got sold, even though the song on the flipside sucked.
Downloading and swapping accomplishes what the customer HAS ALWAYS WANTED but these morons REFUSE to get it. People do NOT want to pay for crap, it's called BUNDLING. They don't want to pay for CRAP they don't want.
If I go to the car dealer and order a new car, I got the choice to decide on my accessories. If I go to get a new bicycle, I got a CHOICE whether or not I want blinking lights on it, electronic turn signals, baskets, whatever, I can GET what I want. No fenders? sure. With mainstream commercial music you got NO choice. You can't easily preview, you can't find anything that isn't on the approved list, and if you get suckered into buying some "disc" you got no idea how much of that disc has anything you want on it or even if it will even play in your player!
Oh, listen to the radio to decide, because the radio will provide you a way to preview? No it won't, they play the same 40 top songs and have since I was a kid in grade school. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN FACT IT GOT WORSE.
Anyway, I started boycotting paying for music when I had gotten several cassettes and noticed I really only wanted one or two songs off the things. I started even boycotting live music when the price of a ticket got to what was for me ridiculous levels, switched to "local" music at local smaller venues. I was in the mega concert biz a bit, I saw what the waste and greed did to people, it was wasteful and greedy, that's why humans have those words. Those industries are chock full top to bottom of coker and booze addled people who all got this paranoid delusion of grandeur that they are all worth this totally absurd amount of money. top to bottom and sideways. Ridiculous levels of money. The producers, the middleman, the pressers, the pr firms, the "stars" you name it, out to lucn on believing they are really worth these sums. Paranoid Delusions of Grandeur, expectations that they got some "right" to profits at obscene levels. Screw them!
The big names ain't worth it, the big middleman companies that constitute this business ain't worth it. IF they can cut their expectations down on what THEY think they are worth, and ALSO make it dog squat easy and simple for people to be able to preview and buy indivdual songs CHEAPLY AND EASILY, they wouldn't have any problems and would actually make MORE money than what they are making now.
Frankly, those people are just plain STUPID if they can't see this. VCRs haven't "killed" the movie industry, even though this was claimed. Cassettes didn't "kill" the music industry. The xerox machine didn't "kill" the book industry. Web forums where articles are discussed hasn't killed the online news business. What all these things HAVE done is to point out COMPLETELY unreasonable expectations of "profit" that some people get, figures they pick right out of their asses, then they DEMAND to get that profit. People deserve SOME profit from their work, everyone and their cuzzin leroy who is an "artiste" and their middle man skimmers DON'T need to be millionaires from these "efforts". If people really thought this stuff was worth it, they would pay for it happily.
It's the same with writingbooks, software writing,painting pictures, whatever. If people got over this sheer greed, they could see this. The "music industry" as it's run at the top by the corps who use the riaa as their front mouth piece need to buy a MUCH cheaper clue. What they are seeing is a righteous BACKLASH to entire generations of people getting ripped off by being charged way more than what this stuff is really worth, and now that the tech exists to SHOW what it's worth, they just need to deal with it. How their dollar gets divvied up with 'the artistes" is for them to figure out, don't ask the customer to do it! If these 'artistes' think it's ok to sign away their rights for cheap,that's their business.
EVERYONE works hard at their jobs, I don't see it written in stone everywhere that because you are such and such you can just DEMAND to be a millionaire. And by the RIAA controlling the so called "public" airwaves through graft and payola, by conspiring to keep cds artifically inflated in price, by all their other monopolistic practics based on GREED, they finally got the people fighting back and SHOWING them what their products are worth. 10 songs on a cd AREN'T WORTH 15$. They are worth MAYBE 10 cents apiece, something like that. Because they never were content with making a living, and instead conspired to have inflated paychecks, people revolted, used technology, and this is what the market can bear now. It's the RIAA and MPAA and the "artistes" they represent who NEED TO BUY A CLUE, and knock it off with extravagant millionaire lifestyles and false expectations for their "work".
I so DETEST both those industries that I watch very few movies, I stopped going to the movies, I stopped going to expensive live concerts and stopped buying pre-packaged music a long time ago,with the exceptions of already produced and used discs or tapes, and that's it, because the dollar I pay for a used tape or cassette or disk is ALL that "entertainment" is really worth.
--I go to a public library occassionaly to use their computers. It's fun to be on high speed. Sometimes I use their printers when I am there, they have a modest fee on a per printed page deal. All the networked computers had their own printers until a couple of weeks ago,it was handy as you could set your own preferences and margins and copy count, etc, and not interfere with anyone else, check if you liked the results, etc. Swell. So now they switched to a print server thing, a big laser printer, but dig this! It's not out on the floor where you as a patron can just go grab your printouts, nope, it's kept inside the office, you have to go to the desk and ask the librarian to please bring your printouts.
I find this rather disturbing. The only reason I can see for this is so they can scan what you are printing. I even asked them about it, the person I asked literally flushed, then stammered then said "well, it's uhh easier this way" Uh huh If it was just to use a better printer, swell, but they have plenty of space out on the floor for it, in fact they have a few photocopiers etc aligned on the wall for public use, but NOT what you go find on the web and decide to print out, nope, that has to be done back out of view in the office.
Same library. Last summer I went in there, wires hanging from the ceiling, I traced them, saw (what I knew to be but are designed to not look like)obvious cams being installed that are aimed at the computers. I asked the same librarian then "what electronic stuff are you installing?". She said, "oh, that's just some electronic stuff". I asked again, "Exactly what kind of electronic stuff" "Just stuff".
--main reason I am against computerised voting. I'd bet a LOT there's all sortsa nifty "features" in the code that got "reviewed" and judged "ok".
But, it's just so gosh darn conveninet to have the computer vote for me! And it's so modern and techy trendy! And "they" wouldn't do anything to affect a vote would they? I mean it's not like anything as important as control of a state or the world's most powerful country is actually enough motive and incentive for the nice people at E-VOTIN'TECH.con Inc. to do naughty things, is it?
Nawww-never happen in a billyun years, people are all honest, rilly and trully!
--CERT has been runing this "survey" about "internal threats" that companies might have observed between two specific dates. Not from such and such a date until the survey is taken by any respondents, but between two exact dates. I looked, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen a reason for picking the end date. I can speculate why that might be, but I'll let someone else do that.
begin more generic rant
Don't know about anyone else, but with patriot act 2 coming into law soon, where the government can just call someone a "terrorist" on their say-so, and with the definition just vague enough to apply to-just about anyone it appears- and that means they are now not under any civil protection or rights, I am wondering if they are starting to set up even more infrastructure to add to "the lists".
Anyone who don't take the "lists" serious is someday gonna be waving bye bye from the back of a truck heading..someplace.
When I was growing up, the stuff the US government is doing right now was something we were taught only "bad" places like east germany did. And those bad places had a complete blend of bureaucracy, large corporations, and then the military and police. Everyone snitched on each other. government had all the rights, you had none, even if some word drivel was printed on paper someplace, government ignored it. That's exactly what those bad places were.
We were taught that was definetly "wrong".
Now it's "patriotic".
Yes, we have a need for some sort of law enforcement effort on the net,and it's there and quite frankly it's more than enough to function, the net is part of society,but what we are seeing now goes WAY beyond it. And now all these other weird things? Model toy rocket permits now but leave the border just wide open, millions of illegals ayear free to just walk across? Huh? They are going to regulate or ban model airplanes, while they have been sprayinbg HUGE amounts of weird crap over america for several years now and outright lying about it? huh?? We have a MAJOR goon run cia front company called "wackenhut security" running private prisons,running for -profit manufacturing efforts using prisoners, running some mental institutions, and now RUNNING ROADBLOCKS on the public highway? This just broke a few days ago, private security org manning roadblocks. Just THINK on this one. We have "secret" Total Informational Awareness efforts codified into law? Is there something about the word "total" that isn't understood? Forced collection of DNA samples at roadblocks? Taking hair and blood samples and you aren't going to be able to say NO? Collation of all purchase records? High level officials who just blatantly WARN YOU that if you are NOT 100% behind their efforts that YOU ARE A TERRORIST? And now they are taking over these internet efforts when it comes to security, telling people what they can and can't do, and this "they" guy will tell you when an exploit gets noted and "official" patches released? Huh? What's to stop them from eventually making little cute distinctions between what they release and what they don't, suppose "they" decide they would like a little pre-patch hacking so they can get into machines THEMSELVES. Maybe they JUST DID THAT, hmmm?
sweet deal for them.
I am against non disclosure of exploits in a timely manner. Waiting months is not timely. Anyone writing code now can review it before release. Anyone NOT knowing about "security" in general needs to stop and step back away from the keyboard and stop writing code until they "get it" on security, because GUARANTEED if this constant release of buggy code continues,and if people who maintain what are historical examples of just dismal exploitable code that should just be chucked out as lame don't voluntarily just admit it's buggy and pull it off the distribution mirrors, this government will start regulating all releases themselves, after a "review". they don't do it now, but they sure as heck could make it a law tomorrow. In my opinion, it's better to be able to not give them any more excuses. If that's what everyone wants,because known sloppy stuff keeps being used and released, this is what's going to happen. You are going to see licenses, you are going to see full governmental review of code, probably fees attached, stuff like that, I tell you, the internet is going to turn into an electronic "highway" whoops they call it that, so that means that this highway is going to be full of smokey the bears and roadblocks and regulations. And I am NOT kidding on that. We saw them just hijacking sites last week. I can see them starting to do that on a much larger scale. And if sites get hosted overseas, you know what, government will have no problems dealing with that, if anyone cares to notice, they have no problems going over stomping on other nations, they can control some wires if they choose to. Host at home, you are going to outfox them? Not when they can just call up your isp and have you dropped, then they send over some goons to pick you up once you are on the "suspicious" list. And they'll do some of these efforts from major backbones or routers if they have to, I am not so convinced that carnivore and such-like efforts only have the capability to just sniff./rant
--too much touchy feely going on in the thread for me. sounds good, doesn't reflect reality too well, IMO. The primary reason for even the existence of the russian and US and now chinese space program is to hide yet again another whopper military budget as a "civilian" budget. There are civilian uses,of course, but I would about guarantee the efforts are based on having the high ground, and being able to use the high ground. The chinese hope to SUCK the west for free dual use R&D, both in terms of actual research and in terms of cash, exactly like they are doing in almost every other manufacturing area. One day they are going to say "hey, thanks for the free stuff the past 20 years, loved all them free factories you gave us and advanced technology, glad you liked the cheap crap we sold you,but, ya know, checking our stats, now we got all the factories we need, we have all the customers we need with our own people and the islamics, who got the oil we need,and you suckers in the west aren't needed any longer, so buh bye, take a hike".
That is what's going to happen.
Back to rockets and space and whatnot. It's the same with airplane design. The good stuff in civilian models is first invented and designed in the military side. Rockets, ditto. China wants reliable BIG ASS BRAND rockets. They are quite useful. Owning the high ground is quite useful. Obfuscating that and calling it a pure 100% "peaceful scientific endeavor" is coy beyond belief. It's coy when we did it, when russia did it, and now when the chinese are doing it, it's just been such a successful public relations dodge, so the good ole boys international dictatorship military and industrial complex guild approves of using this technique at all times.
The chinese are just as warlike, nasty, and run by their blood profits economic rulers as any other very large nation has ever been going back into history. There's never been whatever passed for a "superpower" or "near superpower" that WASN'T predatory in human's history.
And there's never been an example of a major technology that wasn't eventually used extensively in warfare, sooner or later. And every generation thinks they are the "special" generation that is somehow so that much more "spiritually evolved" and "sophisticated" and "urbane" that they won't participate in or suffer from, general widespread warfare. And each generation re-learns that that is a complete fallacy, time after time. Eventually though, the technology available to "humans in general" will actually be "too much" and it will most likely destroy most of mankind. I tend to think it will be from biological reasons, but missiles and old fashioned nukes and now beam weapons could do it same as anything else.
I guess this makes me a party poop in this thread. Oh well, I always call 'em like I see 'em.
..depends on how hard core you want to be, whether or not you can easily find another job, and what your resources are should you get fired and have to sue them, and what the applicable state and federal laws are regardings your employment and any contracts and NDA you have signed already.
The other much more knowlegeable folks here covered the technical aspects clearly. This is something that needs to be fixed, so what you need to do now is FIRST CY own A before you proceed further because it sounds like you have exhausted all the "normal channels" to get heard. You honestly need your own lawyer at this point, and someone who can review your contract in advance and is technically savvy enough to understand the concepts involved here. Proceeding from that point, understand that problems that cost large corps money, even when they need to be addressed, are not popular, and bottom line right now this second profits are usually WAY more important that future "what if this happened?" type scenarios. You should be prepared for a drawn out process of recouping money in the event you get fired is what I am saying. If the data is correct as you say, a savvy lawyer could feel that the potential benefits from winning a suit or accepting an out of court settlement(should that be necessary) are good enough that he or she would take it on a percentage contingency fee. That covers that, and accept no substitutes when it comes to selecting your own lawyer. You might have to include a proviso that the corp recoup your lawyers consultation and mediation efforts EVEN IF THEY AGREE THEN, CAN SEE THE PROBLEM, AND IMPLEMENT YOUR CONCLUSIONS, because that part will most likely come out of your pocket, and it can be explained you had to resort to out of pocket expense just to get anyone to address the issue.
Then get your ducks in a row, have YOUR lawyer approach THEIR lawyer with your proposal in a calm and rational manner, stating your case and your desire to not be retaliated against because you want to push the issue and see it as your loyal employee duty to "do your job to the best of your ability". If they then consider it to be still trivial, and fire you for "going over some PHB's head and not following orders and etc" and etc,or any other obvious retaliation, you would (most likely, guessing here) have grounds for a suit if they retaliated, but like I said, some states are a lot more decent about this than others. Some states allow corps to fire you no matter WHAT the reason, they don't need one, and trying to fight them or get any money from them is almost a waste of time.. Be prepared and be actively looking for another job before you do ANYTHING else, because matters could get sticky quick. If it is a publically traded company, you owning stock will probably allow you yet another angle in this, as you have rights as a stockholder to speak up at stockholders meetings, etc, that could be of assistance in your efforts. You are allowed as a stock holder some interesting rights, these are federal. A corp having such obvious securty flaws is really putting the stockholders investments at peril, should a widespead exploit occur. Egg on face for corporations cost them money, so by default the stockholders money. Delibately obfuscating problems or ignoring them has a lot of case law behind it, so in that sense you are coverted pretty good as a stockholder. Think just recently of enron and arthur anderson for example. It's not an exact parallel but close enough for posting and conversational purposes.
Really SUCKS when you are just trying to be intelligent and loyal and they bounce you around like this, ain't it? "Sorry Vern, just STFU and do your job!' "But I am TRYING to! We could get owned and a lot of customers really get hosed if we don't fix this like yesterday!" "STFU or you're fired!".
This is called "modern corporate mindset" and is more common than not near as I can see. I personally really try to avoid working for larger companies, from this very reason (very generally speaking), just got tired of dealing with peter principle factors all the time..
--so far in the thread I have seen discussions only from the point of view of an "outsider" attempting a malicious attack, or just "mistakes being made due to ignorance" at these various large routers.
My wondering is what IF a large politically motivated plan of action was contemplated and initiated. Perhaps these 5-6 serious brains at a few places were compromised, either blackmailed or bribed, or they were actual "true believers" of some large political factions ideologies? This could be a state sponsored event or a large private political faction. That to me looks more like the largest potential threat, short of just mass physical destruction of course. Your example of puncturing the tires of those gents to make them not be able to get to the shop reminded me of it, just turn it around to "the bad guys are in charge, on-site and are up to no good". What was the black hat geeks name in Jurassic Park? A deal like that but on steroids. Say I was "badguy" faction A and wanted to be able to conduct cyberwarefare at target country B. would it be a better bet and easier to accomplish remotely, or would it be easier for me to bide my time and get some few key ubergeek-personnel tagged in advance, compromised or "recruited" using a false flag approach? It would appear the latter plan has more chances of being more effective and easier to pull off. It's just a variant of script kiddies accumulating lower level zombie machines, it's just much bigger and uses various social engineering, which is nice because the preliminary work is not on the net for anyone to see indications it might be happening or being setup.
Now the main question I would have, how many people need to be compromised for this to be a pretty viable plan, in how many places? And suppose your own hierarchy is factionalized, that "orders may be given" to create some serious havoc, this could be done in such a way as to both create the havoc, and also to make it appear someone else did it, at least in the initial stages of the attack. Shifting the blame is a common "spooky" type of thing to do. So, how many across a big nation like the US would it take, one hundred, a thousand, 50? I don't know but perhaps it's a low number depending how far up the routing/traffic food chain you can get to.
--around a year and a half ago a similar situation happened in japan if I am remember correctly. It looked rather like a military test that got out of hand. I am medium suspicious of two separate systems failing at the same time, it reminds me of that other "accident" that was rumored to be some pretty advanced jamming.
Note to anyone, yes, this is pure speculation, I admit it out loud. My default nature that I am completelycomfortable with is whenever strange occurrences happen with "government"- anyone's government - I am suspicious of it as being more than incompetence or actual random accidents. Too many events over the years that at first looked one way turned out to be completely different, they were either delibarately done, or somehow they were collateral damage from something bigger that needed to occur for some agenda, or allowed to happen, again, for a higher level agenda not readily apparent at the time.
--they are a manufacturing outfit. I have no ties to these folks at all. Zero. If you don't like their web page that is perfectly OK, means nothing. It's navigable in moz 1.3 on my machine it appears. Anyone is free to research how long the company has been around, to talk to them or email, to research into what some of their customers might say, and etc, etc and ask any questions they want. If they do, they will find out. You are free to your opinions, but the company has been around a long time, and they make quality gear. It works as advertised and is suitable for the situations they outline on their page. this isn't all that exotic of a tech in general, for instance, ozone is used commercially by smoke damage companies, and by places with bad odors being associated with their work, like meat packing plants, etc, and it's well established. Most large metro areas have places that use similar equipment in the yellow pages. Your assertions not witstanding your pastes still don't mean that there are no practical useages. As has been pointed out elsewhere's on the thread, several posters here have anecdotals of using ozone to treat water, an alternative that eliminates the use of chlorine based chemicals that leave dioxin, which chemical it wouldn't be hard to find some references anyone could grab pastes to put here that would say quite clearly they are most harmful and poisonous and long lasting in the environment, for example. That doesn't mean that bleach is not useful for some purposes. No one has ever suggested one should attach a hose directly to the output and run it through to a mask and breathe pure ozone. That is silly of course, but used as directed for some specific purposes it can be one more way to deal with problems. I do know for example in areas that are experiencing the incredibly harmful "black mold" in walls of buildings that sometimes ozone treatments are really the only thing that is effective, short of just tearing the buildings down and throwing them away. That is all findable with google, so anyone may go look. I think that it is interesting to note this in these days of possibly biological attacks, it might be that these machines or similar might be useful in helping to decontaminate areas (buildings like the postal facilities that got infected in the anthrax attacks for example) should the need arise. Any promising tech should be explored in this area, and I applaud the efforts of the researchers in seeking a means to help insure the quality of foodstuffs without resorting to proven harmful poisons, as relating to the original parent.
I'll let any other readers make up their own minds of course, as the contact info is there and the details of their company are researchable. This has been..well, an interesting interchange but I believe our two positions are clear and in opposition, so any further give and take would just be useless trolling and banter now. Thanks for your comments.
..as pointed out, this particular company has a way to make the macrooxygen molecules without nitrous oxides or the resultant acids that could do the damage. That is what was associated with previous "ozone generators" that caused damages. They have already been reviewed by various governmental agencies and their equipment passes muster completely, and they have installs all over. Aranizer is (as far as I know) the only manufacturer that can make this claim of no harmful acids, they have patents on it, and have been around since the 1950s. If you look at their page you will see this isn't a quack or fly by night company. It is a serious and legit company with a variety of models they build and distribute, it's not some guy in his basement. I am sure that you (anyone you, I am speaking generally) could contact them for references to large commercial and satisifed customers with credibility. Like anything else, feel free to research on your own. I provided the info, that is all, I have no ties to them.
--and I hope that my economic analysis made some sense as well as my analogy. Just wanted to show an exact scenario. And therein is the main argument, with a past example of free trade following the method I outlined,a good example being our historical 50 state similar culture and more similar economic level "free trade zone". It was quite successful. Applying it to two or more highly divergent and disparatedly un-even economic areas doesn't work in the real world. It results in a lop sided two class society much faster than a developing middle class and any notions of 'freedom" or "representative republicanism". I can't even go into that "democracy" nonsense, and I am sure you know what I mean. You can have trade with uneven nations but until they approach parity it MUST be regulated so that any gains in the lower level areas are NOT offset by losses in the already successful areas, and also so that rampant despotism and exploitation don't get even worse in either of the nations.. This is by default a tedious process and has to be done on a case by case basis. And yes, it would classify as yet another of those lesser of two evils examples, and that is sad but just reality. And our current reality is that it really isn't working, situations like mine are becoming the norm and not the exception, and all indicators that I can see anyway indiciate that it will get much worse. We haven't shutdown our borders, the illegals are here by the literal million, who know's how many are AZTLAN revolutionaries or from other nations who are not here just to "get work", and millions of more still beneficial and non buggywhip jobs are being shipped offshore with no real alternatives for replacing them beyond government noises like "uhh, training, umm, loans , uhhh, ya that'll work". I can't even stand the insult to my intelligence on those "solutions", even beyond considering them to be anything more than soothing placating words to keep the two main faction's partsian supporters content. It is to me, quite embarrasing for those people. I am literally embarassed for them.
In my case, we are moving yet again,further out from our already quite rural area, several factors involved, mostly personal, and are going to a much smaller cheaper place where we intend to sit out the upcoming crash and social unrest, if we are allowed to and this government doesn't go off it's rocker into fascism even worse. I am 100% convinced it is coming, by the way. How severe it will be I cannot exactly say, no one can really, but I am pegging it now between bad and real bad, with almost armageddon style being a step or two after that. I think the next decade is critical for the survival of human beings on planet earth, strained economics being only one factor to consider but an important one. I think there will be more and larger "resource" wars primarily over oil, fresh water and some critical strategic minerals, and the chances any of these wars getting "out of hand" being quite large.
I also think, based on human nature and past historical models, that large scale use of WMD will become common, as no major weapon advances ever been *not used* extensively in warfare in human's past. Some took longer than others to be adopted, but eventually all advanced tech gets used extensively in warfare. And we could freeze technology today and it's already so far advanced into efficient killing that no more advances are needed to depopulate the planet. Michio Kaku the physicist and futurist agrees with this assessment as well, he gives the human race not much of a chance primarily from mis use of uranium, although there I disagree slightly and I think it will be from biological misuse as the primary reason, but really, that point is moot.
Not being pessimistic, just realistic. I had many conversations with older relatives about their personal experiences during the "great depression", and those were quite sobering. The primary thing I remember them telling me is those on small farms still got to eat and at least have food and water,and basic fuel for cooking and heating and cleaning purposes even if they were paupers, and as long as they could keep the tax man away they were still OK enough to survive. Those that didn't and were urban suffered a lot more. This time around it could be much worse, the percentage of people in the US who actually reside on such small farms is absymally low compared to back then, so any "crash" scenario will be correspondingly "much worse". I am talking "camps", some of them of the "not nice" variety, work camps not much better, widespread disease and famine,ratioining, governmental total command and control, etc. All the trappings. There might be even what the polite analysts call "social upheaval".
Again, thanks, sorry about the assumptions, it's just important to always put a human face on these matters.
--theory is fairly simplified and doesn't work in the real world except at excrutiatingly slow speeds and in a lot of cases it doesn't work at all. The cultures have to be more similar, and they have to start at a much closer economic norm for it to really work. Until they are closer together, it has to be treated almost something like the "prime directive" or something, and there has to be carefully constructed tariffs. Well, unless you don't give a crap about the imbalance, then swell, let the richer country drop until the rise in the poorer nation reaches a parity. That's what will happen and what you are seing happen now in the US, all this chimeric "prosperty" is based on mostly credit and the rest of the world using petro dollars as a reserve currency, it has little to do with "free trade", but the direct loss of productivity in the US does. Read any random slashdot thread when it comes to "jobs" see what some of your fellow forumites are going through, smart guys with degrees and experience. Guys who actually do the work and put in the time. You'll see some horror stories that are not a joke. I'm just a blue collar guy, you ain't interested what's happening with "my kind" right now so I won't bore ya, but read some of the IT guys anecdotals. This is REAL stuff happening to REAL people. I know some older folks who are realising they will never be able to retire now. I know middle class folks who are having to lose their equity because they got to sell out and try and find some place cheaper and they got to sell at a loss just to get out.
I don't class cheap gadgets bought on credit at slavemart on credit cards and longer house notes than they had just one generation ago and our lowest historical percentage of savings to be all that braggable.
And it really is *crazy* to arm and buildup a nation with a first class new vertical manufacturing model who has stated over and over that you are their biggest enemy, a nation that has political prisoners they shoot in the head and harvest organs from and sells them in catalogs. Only allows one political party. And etc, you know the drill. deal is, the drill is still true. Call me old fashioned but when I was growing up that was called "wrong", we called places that did that sort of stuff "bad places". Of course, random roadblocks didn't happen either, I certainly don't remember any. When I was a kid, my dad and moms generation as young adults, a blue collar guy could take roughly a few weeks income and use it for a downpayment on a real house, the interest rate was I believe around 4%, and the note was only about 1/5th an average guys monthly net after taxes. I guess that way of "doing trade" just sucked too bad, huh, had to "improve" on it.
Only consolation I got is I never voted for any of the morons who have been pushing this stuff. Not_one_ at least starting about 4 elections ago anyway when I finally just give up on "honesty" out of Dumb party and Really dumb party. I knew it before that, but kept getting sucked into the "just one more time, maybe this batch of bribe takers will be better".
If free trade worked in practice, then for example, since we have opened up all this trade with china we should have made money, but in reality, our annual deficit with them is 100 billion plus,that's just one nation, our total is much higher really, it's running 1.5 bill daily now, and that 100 bil number is roughly equivalent to the loss of 700 billion total, lost to our domestic economy, following the rough rule of thumb that one dollar traded locally that stays in circulation gets traded 7 times. Your theory is also flawed somewhat as the analogy isn't correct. It isn't two nations starting out at roughly the same levels in what they do and what they produce just different products. Nope it ain't. A closer analogy would be one of the nations as it is teaching and equipping and financing the other nation in how to farm corn and wheat, is simultaneously stopping growing it's own corn and wheat, so it will eventually have nothing to trade with. The "plan" then, the grand scheme, is we are going to "manage and service" this corn and wheat growing. Sweet deal I guess if you really really really think that other guy is that retarded and is gonna do that for very long. In reality once the other guy got all the corn and wheat and doesn't need any more help and has sucked you dry, he's gonna laugh at you and tell you to buzz off, and if you get pushy he's gonna knock ya on your can because you're too weak to fight because you ain't been eating because you ain't growing no corn or wheat. That's a better analogy of what's going on now.
Comes a time, we will have nothing they want anymore, and it's fast getting there. Fast. The "two billion armpit" sell we got shafted into believing never happened.. China sells us small ticket consumer items, what they primarily purchase from us are large ticket manufacturing tools, tools to make tools so they can get busy manufacturing wealth. They buy factories from us,or we even just give them to them, then they turn around and sell us stuff we made befor. And when we did it mostly all ourselves, all our loot sorta got spent with ourselves, and ya know what? It kinda was working pretty darn good most of the time. Of course, we had less uber millionaires at the top, but heck..can't have that, who needs a pesky whiny middle class anyway, buncha ingrates, they lucky we keep that inefficient minimum wage around, no matter, we'll drop it and they can be happy pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and work their way back up from 2 bucks an hour, after all, it's competetive that way...
Nope, what works, creating wealth, is actually A-making stuff,and B-growing stuff. That's it, that's all humans have ever come up with. You dig crap outta the ground, melt it refine it rarrange it into shapes, you "make something". That's one way. The next way is you literally plant a seed or you harvest stuff that is self planting, ya know, dumb stuff like wood for houses and furniture and food, ya, that's so useless it's laughable, humans don't need that stuff anymore, we can just use our replicators. Uh huh..
That's it, ya make stuff or grow stuff, that's where wealth comes from. Everything else that people call a job is "wealth re-arranging", it's not "wealth creation". You can only keep re arranging just so long until that level falls to a joke. A "service"economy is a pure -d lie. The old saying is you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. You can stay "busy" as in "busi-ness" for a while poking around in the entrails looking for flecks of gold eggs, but you won't be making any more.
People who don't really get it between theory and reality just haven't lost their jobs yet near as I can tell. That's the difference between a recession and a depression. Not saying it applies to you,no idea, but in case you haven't noticed, the economy is dismal,it's a 'facade' economy right now, don't believe me, the presidents economic advisor just quit, he's getin while the gettins good he is, the treasury secretary who sorta had a clue and who was getting annoyed at not being able to speak the truth and was embarrasing to the oil-n-blood good ole yee haw shills in the admin got fired and told to go away and shut up, greenspinner is talking the fed is hosed (as polite and quiet as he can using big fancy words) and might have to go to a gold backed dollar to stop the flight to the euro, the BLS stopped even collecting and collating and reporting some of the more important unemployment stats, and stock market levels and etc. That's real world happenings.
Run through bank derivative levels. Check out what's up with pension funds. We had like what, only 3 or 4 major companies went bankrupt who needed some qwuick bailing last year and it HOSED the reserve insurance for pensions that 38,000 other corporations rely on? Let's look at that ratio again....hmmmm... And social insecurity? please........
Nope, just have to say the practice as it stands today is a failure. From the world's largest creditor nation, to world's largest debtor nation in like what, 20 something odd years? That's some sort of great success story advertising? Almost exactly the same time frame since the great globalism "free trade" push? And NAFTA and millions of "free trade illegals" coming in? Would you personally like to cut a check for a few mil and help make our small county hospital solvent again? It was until we got a 25% increase in population of almost all total illegal aliens in the past three years, this despite them "working" here,oh whoops, 3/4ths of them ain't and are getting this and that freebie give aways, and the total cost of them is a net-loss of thousands a dollars a head per annum. A few large companies and some farmers and some contractors made some serious short term money,and that is changing already as it got over saturated, and it costs the local economy for them to make those profits, it certainly doesn't add the same per head that we had pre-illegal invasion. Really, the hospital is broke now, we need to build at least two new schools, you got the green man? c'mon, let's see it, we need it. The largest factory we had (that was here for generations) that switched to hiring mostly illegals at reduced pay folded last year and left. it's gone, buh bye. them jobs got--uhh, what jobs again? wonder how many divorces that caused, how many of them "for sale" signs I see were caused by that, wonder how many of them pretty new trucks I see at the lots came from that. I don't know really... sure seems to be a lot more for sale signs lately though, and them car lots slap fulla new lookin ve-hickles. Must be one of them "cyclic" things, ya, that's it... Guess that didn't work either. Oh ya, our crime stats about almost doubled in the past three years too, and we got our *first* gang warfare murders. I am so proud, you proud? I'm proud, we "big city" now! that happened just a month and a half ago, just so cool! And random armed home invasions. never happened before here. got the first two of them last month. Thanks again. feel just so free traded lucky! I love forced "multiculturalism" and being allowed the privelege of sharing my money for this privelege, I mean it's not coerced out of me..oh wait, yes it is.
I'd pass on this globalism free trade hoss crap if I could, unfortunately your "side" got the upper hand and will continue this "economic marvel" and the equally wonderful social marvel and the just groovy increase in "security", it's that old "just good" feeling, over and over again. Yep, your side done gonna free trade our butts all the way to bankrupting the nation,creating uncontrollable social chaos, then they get to retire to their armed guard walled villas in a US re-created as just another large two class technofuedal society.
Dang, you some smart boys. yep.
Thanks a lot. Ya, I know, it had nothing to do with you... and etc.... the theory sounds just so gosh darn good and all.... I mean really, sounded all sortsa scientific and I'm sure all kinza real smart guys with lotsa letters next to they names thunked it up and all...
Hey, read that leaked insider email from the world DAVOS economic conference? It's sorta a nifty read. Check out the economic "tone" of it.
Oh ya, p.s. and this ain't a fairy tale. tomorrow is my last day at work. I been looking for a replacement job for a few months now because I knew I was gonna need a new one. Hmm, every place I go-remember, I'm a blue collar guy now I can run this box but that's it,and even if I was a "sysadmin c-+? java caffeined out programmer" there ain't any of them kinda jobs around here that I'm aware of, and every place I go for work I can do seems to be slap fulla "free trade" people who don't seem to speak the same language I do and seem to live in places where a whole lot of them are all crammed into these places, something I really ain't seen before because I never travelled to none of them other free trade places where I guess they do that. So, that means I am ass-suming that that's how I get to live now? When I get this new free trade job wherever that is?
I just thorouhgly thank you and all your buddies who thunked this up and implemented it, for this marvelous experience. I been working over 40 years now,well close enough rounded off if ya count sumer work when I was in school, that was around at 50 cent an hour when I started, sometimes less, sometimes more, I guess this will now be what they call "fun". I will drive by freetrademart tomorrow-ya we got one of them, real cheap stuff, yep- and not buy anything in honor of this and not having a whole lotta them "spare" freetrade pieces of paper with dead presidents on them. I'll look at it though, promise.
--the trial was a jokeski, basically soap opera. What everyone expected-mostly-happened. They got found guilty but got a slap on the wrist. This is similar to most trials involving extremely wealthy parties. The basic rule of thumb is, the larger the intrinsic "worth" of the trial in terms of public impact, notoriety, financial concerns, etc, the less of a fine or sentence occurs as a percentage of the defendants net worth. Example, joe nobody breaks into the local store, gets caught stealing something. He'll pull jail time. He'll pull time in jail even before the trial, at least until bail is set if he even is offered bail that he can meet. At a minimum he might get say half a year in jail, totally not making money and in prison. I am being rather random here, but just to make a point. Large concern A or extremely wealthy international personage B, does a crime or series of crimes that is 10,000 times bigger in terms of "worth" than the small store burglar. Chances are high the large personages or corporation would get a relatively small proportional fine, his corporation won't be seized or dissolved, etc, and probably no actual physical presence in any prison.
I am also thinking in the real world of planet earth, that even if you are a high level judge, when you are talking literally BILLIONS of dollars at stake, that there are probably a lot of political and personally practical carrots and sticks that apply to "judging". None of those will ever be acknowledged in public, and would be denied if the question came up. It's like turn it around, put yourself in the judge's place realistically, exactly how physically safe would you feel for yourself and your family if you were ultimately responsible from removing the income stream from tens of thousand of people, many of them billionaires and multi millionaires, and of who knows how many shareholders who would lose more x-billions of dollars as their stock would be worthless and unsellable shortly? Would you ever really feel even remotely safe again?
--I can't say the reason for sure, but can guess. Last year microsoft execs have gone all over the world making offerings to governments who have made noises about going to linux. Soon thereafter, there's microsft at the door offerring either cheap software, free software, or in some cases, that plus now the source. It certainly appears to be an attempt not so much to get market share, but a desperation move to hang on to any market share they have. They have to think day to day, medium term, and long term. Medium term and long term just isn't looking too good for them, in my opinion. The computer world moves quickly, several large nations switching from microsoft could cause a snowball effect with other nations, and various corporations, and it could literally happen in one year. There's nothing magical about microsoft, there's been a lot of hugely successful corporations go bust or near bust, and do it quickly.
Frankly, I really don't give microsoft much longer to retain their large business model the way it's set up now. Most people do, I am merely guessing and disagreeing. Partly is security, their's is dismal and you have to be living in a mud hut out in some bushlands someplace to not know that. The other is economics, the entire world's economy is slowing dramatically, all companies and governments are instigating measures to cut costs, broadly speaking. Microsoft's products are just too expensive for what they do.
--I can't show you an example right now,(I will just presume you could find these with google) but I remember reading the US government admitted to doing a lot of official cyberwarfare against serbia when we invaded kosovo and bombed serbia. That and using the physical e-bombs that used carbon filaments to take down their electrical grid as much as possible, etc. Right now they also have an active psyops disinformation program to disseminate false news stories in broadcast and print media, on the net as "news" and in forums and chatrooms. It's just an outgrowth of propaganda leafletting and radio broadcasts. That would be separate from say civilian police actions against kiddie porners,etc, I am talking about pure political stuff run by the military or state department paramilitary spooks, so I guess those two examples count as state sponsored cyber warfare or terrorism.
--personally, I think the writer had the DUTY to keep even more notes, and release publically even more information. Instead she is "embarrassed" that we the poor planets peons get to see a small amount of what's going on. By her own words, these are the people who actually control the planet. We NEED to know what they really think and say and what they are planning, not this thrice spun drivel that finally makes it to the mainstream news. It's NOT just 5,000 peoples planet! They run it like it's ALL theirs, and these people are by default, so far removed from "no money and no power" they have NO IDEA how it is to really live like anyone "normal" in any of these various nations. As such, they only make decisions that benefit THEM and their drinkin buds, NOT you and me. That's the one thing she got wrong, it IS a cabal.
And I HOPE that middle class people reading this take particular care in really paying attention to the state of the economy. IF we have a severe economic reversal, which at this point I would say is way more likely than not, if the rest of the world abandons the federal reserve note in favor of the euro dollar and the muslim gold dinar possibly, the US will be in a WORLD of hurt. I mean BAD NEWS CITY. People are ignoring a problem now that is the worst conglomeration of economic factors the US ever faced. The TV talking econo heads have already scrapped the bottom of the barrel of happy face makeup, there ain't no mo left.
biodiesel is not biodiesel, except when it is, or isn't, but it is , no it ain't, but it really is biodiesel, but see, there's biodiesel, then BIODIESEL.
I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Your web site says two different things, and picking one or the other "proves" your point. biodiesel is a product that can be made from animal or vegetable fats. how you get there is different. Now you are telling me biodiesel is biodiesel except for when it isn't biodiesel.
OK, so much clearer now.
think I'll write my rep tell him to put his loot for any fed money in alternate energy into wind, PV and ethanol instead, just based on this.
good luck in your projects, hope your blood doesn't boil all the time. Maybe mixing biodiesel up with biodiesel does it, fumes or something...
point is moot, once dino doody oil hits 80$ a barrel there ain't gonna be any "spare" food quality oil grown in any quantities, animal or vegetable. Between farming costs and the resultant increase in natgas prices driving up fertiliser, well.. we'll see. Really,good luck, wish you well, I approve of all alternate energy products, a lot better than just complaining about things like most people do.
funny story, long time ago in the 70's, buncha hippy friends of mine going over to protest at seabrook nuke plant, asked me if I wanted to go. I declined. While they were over protesting I built a 4' x 8' solar passive thermosiphon air heater. it worked quite well. That's how I protest.
--"faster processors" and floating ram on the river of cpu denial! Bah! Why back in the day, REAL men had manual underwood typewriters we would mod with parts made on pedal driven milling machines, we'd make actuating arms and cams that hooked to the keys to run our sliderules! When we wanted faster processing we would go OUTSIDE in the snow, do ONE pushup-that was BOTH ways up AND down, get MUCH stronger, come back inside and TYPE FASTER. And we LIKED IT!
Slashdot Mirror
--this is true except for two points. As a proof of concept platform they can be shown to work. The US will most liklley go back to a 24/7 aircap of planes in the air. We did that from the early cold war until some time in the clinton administration. We ALWAYS had some bombers in the air. They could conceivably do that with these new birds once they have a fleet of them. Point two, I don't see anyplace in the fine print that says you couldn't use these against normal old aeryplanes, or ground based targets for that matter. I mean it IS the deathray thing, and it's still in the musket stage as far as it's evolution is concerned. It's only going to get more powerful and easier to aim and have more bool-eets in the clip with advancing technology, to mangle an analogy.
With that said, I am more askeered right now of my own government than anything else. That scripted "question and answer" dog and pony show last night was pure fiction. Slick, but still fiction. Wasn't a single hardball question asked. He had the questions in front of him and was calling on the reporters in turn off a list, then just reading the canned answers. He's worked on his delivery, it's getting better and the scriptwriters are getting better but it's still *acting*. Notice he said it was "his government". I thought that was cute. The skeery part is he BELIEVES THAT.
All in all though, my opinion is we need a missile defense, it's just a natural logical progression. Within 10 to 15 years the planet earth gonna have to decide once and for all who is getting the oil and who ain't, because there SURE ain't enough so that 6 billion people will all have cars and central heating and whatnot, it just slap ain't gonna happen. And china gonna be RIGHT there with the huge giganto army, all the tech their manufacturing plants can pump out, and a need for oil and water they can't ignore. Things gonna get pretty interesting then, if not even before then.
What we need more though right now besides missile defense is to get rid of the D and R parties,never elect another one to even tree warden or dogcatcher, they stole the government and run it like warring gangs on crack and booze...waitaminit, I bet that's part of it! It's..embarrasing. And we need to stop letting the CFR and those sortsa folks determine how our government should be. It ain't their government.
Ya, I know, wishful thinking, computerised voting just blew any chance we had of true reform, that and all the military following ANY order they are given no matter how illegal or unconstitutional, and congress being lapdogs.
Sorry for the ramble, just events lately are looking pretty lame, stupid and dangerous to me, and what is really bogus is I predicted this stuff(some in writing, some I just remember thinking back then and talking about) happening way back when I was in junior high in the early 60's, and it more or less has come true right on schedule. And I am NOT looking forward to the domestic attacks that will be starting once he invades, I give that a pretty fair odds-on of happening now. Saddam is a nutcase, but he's one of dozens you can point at, and not really all that powerful.
This whole war deal is in layers of political and economic reality, last night got itterated the very top most superficial layer, IMO..
sure nuff man that is ridiculous expensive. Live off campus then, 800 clams for a room is way way way too expensive, you can get a house note for that kind of money, let alone a couple of people sharing one at 1600$ a month.. I'd even consider just another college at those kinza prices. So I'll agree with you there.
I think this will get sorted out soon all over pretty quick anyway, the US and the rest of the planet is undergoing an economic reversal. I think you are going to see prices drop severely sometime soon on just about everything as people wake up to the fact that "some" job at a reduced rate is a WHOLE lot better than *no job*. The situation in the US right now in particular is worse than the situation that was happening in roughly the late 20's. Just no one wants to really admit it, except for the people who are in a true "depression" from their personal job loss. There are going to be some MAJOR shakeups in people's pre conceived paradigms and personal sense of what priorities are. If you read what warren buffet is saying lately, you'll see he agrees and gives some details to that point of view. We aren't going to collapse to caveman levels, but we have only burst ONE bubble of several,that was the overvalued stock bubble, there's still to come the pension bubble, the real estate bubble, the banking derivatives bubble, the petroinflated dollar as opposed to the euro dollar and muslim gold dinar mess, and the rest of the accounting/corporate illegalities bubble. Add in governmental completely out to lunch spendingand meddling,and we got some more rough times ahead, which will probably last at least a decade or even longer, much longer if the world can't avoid a series of major resource wars over oil and water.
these things are nifty
t ml
http://www.skylights-of-hawaii.com/news/page4.h
No electricity required, about as "natural" as you can get for lighting. Obviously only useful during the daylight hours, but a good way to get that natural light that humans absolutely need for both good physical health and psychological health. And you can grow plants then as well down there without using additional electricity or artificial light. And here's a tip, once when all I had was an apartment, I wanted a garden, a veggie garden. So I just went for it, instead of "normal" house plants I grew like 6 foot tall staked tomatoes, etc inside. People always liked it when they came over, and it actually provided some nice fresh salad action. I had tomatoes and pole beans and peas and cukes, etc all growing inside in front of windows. Was really neat! The coolest one was a large rose bush, quite the nice odor inside a small room.
Googling will find you more sources for these and different lighting ideas. All of them more or less use a periscope type action with just ultra shiny pipes to move the light around, and there is a japanese company I have forgotten the name of now though that uses fiber optics to pipe sunlight around to various places inside office buildings.
--I'll take your point. Deal is, what REALLY is the cost? It is not clear if this is a net loss for the uni, a more or less break even, or if they lose serious and substantial money or actually even turn a profit. I would HOPE they would adjust it so they made a slight profit yearly, and then in turn use said profit every year by putting it back into purchaising both better deals in bandwith (benefits the students that way) and also improving the quality of their hardware (again, benefiting the students).
Yet again another car analogy. It's cheaper this quarter to NOT change your oil, do tune ups and never buy new tread. It's short range cheaper, long range pretty expensive. I would think that at those prices that the students would exercise a tad more adult control over their surfing, and also be willing to help make surfing in general better for all so they can easily then share in better quality and cheaper bandwith.
Some of the work arounds I saw had decent merit. Such as the geeks downloading ISOs and proggies could have a centralised method to do it, then burn copies and sneaker net them around. Music and movie fiends the same. I would guess a lot of the downloading is really wasted duplifications of effort. Similar to how it's better deal chow-wise to work through your local food coop, or to share rents, etc, using the electronic resources could be more peasurable, not cost as much, and not give the uni any excuses to freak out or 'clamp down on bandwith hogs' like they are threatening.
--250$ for all that bandwith for a year? I pay roughly 20 clams a month for dialup in my rural area. I have my choice of that or I guess some satellite thing at a ridiculous cost. That's roughly the same they are paying now at cornell for high speed, no wonder it's cost effective solution.. Why stop there, subsidised gasoline, subsidised groceries? And it's less than a dollar? Maybe they should try an even dollar a day, 365$ a year? I fail to see how anyone could complain over broadband for a buck a day, I'd pay that if I could even get it.
I got a better idea for the uni, stop providing bandwith at all, fergettitaboutit, let the market and the individual students decide, let the local ISP's in that area duke it out instead, OR, cornel charge what it really costs, which has got to be more than that 250$ a year.
multi tier pricing based on expected usage and unexpected usage. Seems like you should have a mechanism in place to deal with this sort of thing. You have a customer who's normal traffic is x. All of a sudden they are getting pretty severe traffic like x times 5 or something that makes it look like they are going to max out their alottment with most of the month left to go. If it was ME as the customer,knowing I was going to get hit with a huge and unexpected bill, I would think it *nifty* if you either throttled it back or even shut connections off until the customer was notified or a better analysis was obtained of what was going on. And you can offer both, one way the customer knows they are liable for their bandwith, period, their decision to make, they will chance it and they want their site UP no matter what. Swell.. Another plan, they agree in advance for you to take action on their part if something goes real screwy and they are getting DOSed or whatever. Seems fair enough and easy enough to have that in a written contract.
I went through something like this with a roomate and long distance bills. The roomates friend came to visit, stayed a week. My bill was literally 10 times larger than normal at the end of the month,500 something as opposed to a more normal 40 to 50$, the so called friend of the roomate had split well before the bill came in and disappeared, no one but ME to pay the bill, the other roomate didn't care, said "too bad, not my fault, I didn't do it", and no arguing with the phone company over it. I SURE would have liked to have had the option with the phone company (and if I had thought to ask obviously) that if all of a sudden the bill was going through the roof that a courtesy call was dropped to the home verifying this huge jump in traffic. Something like that anyway, a cap of sorts. I could have nipped it in the bud before it became outrageous.
And no, it wasn't any phone nookie 900 #'s, this person thought they were some kind of business typhoon and just made calls all over heck just constantly when no one was around trying to set up of all things "music business deals" I found out later adfter I just called a few of the listed long distance charges #'s up to see WHAT all the calls were about. Needless to say I soon thereafter stopped having those sorts of roommates and so called "friends".
--I don't download mp3s or movies, so we'll get that out of the way FIRST.
When I was a kid, you had a clear cut choice in the record store, and that's ALL we had really was records. There was some reel to reel tape action, but basically it was records and the am radio. You could get EITHER an album on 33 size OR a 45 that had two tunes on it. I can't tell you how much of the albums were wasted space, so a lot of 45 "singles" got sold, even though the song on the flipside sucked.
Downloading and swapping accomplishes what the customer HAS ALWAYS WANTED but these morons REFUSE to get it. People do NOT want to pay for crap, it's called BUNDLING. They don't want to pay for CRAP they don't want.
If I go to the car dealer and order a new car, I got the choice to decide on my accessories. If I go to get a new bicycle, I got a CHOICE whether or not I want blinking lights on it, electronic turn signals, baskets, whatever, I can GET what I want. No fenders? sure. With mainstream commercial music you got NO choice. You can't easily preview, you can't find anything that isn't on the approved list, and if you get suckered into buying some "disc" you got no idea how much of that disc has anything you want on it or even if it will even play in your player!
Oh, listen to the radio to decide, because the radio will provide you a way to preview? No it won't, they play the same 40 top songs and have since I was a kid in grade school. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN FACT IT GOT WORSE.
Anyway, I started boycotting paying for music when I had gotten several cassettes and noticed I really only wanted one or two songs off the things. I started even boycotting live music when the price of a ticket got to what was for me ridiculous levels, switched to "local" music at local smaller venues. I was in the mega concert biz a bit, I saw what the waste and greed did to people, it was wasteful and greedy, that's why humans have those words. Those industries are chock full top to bottom of coker and booze addled people who all got this paranoid delusion of grandeur that they are all worth this totally absurd amount of money. top to bottom and sideways. Ridiculous levels of money. The producers, the middleman, the pressers, the pr firms, the "stars" you name it, out to lucn on believing they are really worth these sums. Paranoid Delusions of Grandeur, expectations that they got some "right" to profits at obscene levels. Screw them!
The big names ain't worth it, the big middleman companies that constitute this business ain't worth it. IF they can cut their expectations down on what THEY think they are worth, and ALSO make it dog squat easy and simple for people to be able to preview and buy indivdual songs CHEAPLY AND EASILY, they wouldn't have any problems and would actually make MORE money than what they are making now.
Frankly, those people are just plain STUPID if they can't see this. VCRs haven't "killed" the movie industry, even though this was claimed. Cassettes didn't "kill" the music industry. The xerox machine didn't "kill" the book industry. Web forums where articles are discussed hasn't killed the online news business. What all these things HAVE done is to point out COMPLETELY unreasonable expectations of "profit" that some people get, figures they pick right out of their asses, then they DEMAND to get that profit. People deserve SOME profit from their work, everyone and their cuzzin leroy who is an "artiste" and their middle man skimmers DON'T need to be millionaires from these "efforts". If people really thought this stuff was worth it, they would pay for it happily.
It's the same with writingbooks, software writing,painting pictures, whatever. If people got over this sheer greed, they could see this. The "music industry" as it's run at the top by the corps who use the riaa as their front mouth piece need to buy a MUCH cheaper clue. What they are seeing is a righteous BACKLASH to entire generations of people getting ripped off by being charged way more than what this stuff is really worth, and now that the tech exists to SHOW what it's worth, they just need to deal with it. How their dollar gets divvied up with 'the artistes" is for them to figure out, don't ask the customer to do it! If these 'artistes' think it's ok to sign away their rights for cheap,that's their business.
EVERYONE works hard at their jobs, I don't see it written in stone everywhere that because you are such and such you can just DEMAND to be a millionaire. And by the RIAA controlling the so called "public" airwaves through graft and payola, by conspiring to keep cds artifically inflated in price, by all their other monopolistic practics based on GREED, they finally got the people fighting back and SHOWING them what their products are worth. 10 songs on a cd AREN'T WORTH 15$. They are worth MAYBE 10 cents apiece, something like that. Because they never were content with making a living, and instead conspired to have inflated paychecks, people revolted, used technology, and this is what the market can bear now. It's the RIAA and MPAA and the "artistes" they represent who NEED TO BUY A CLUE, and knock it off with extravagant millionaire lifestyles and false expectations for their "work".
I so DETEST both those industries that I watch very few movies, I stopped going to the movies, I stopped going to expensive live concerts and stopped buying pre-packaged music a long time ago,with the exceptions of already produced and used discs or tapes, and that's it, because the dollar I pay for a used tape or cassette or disk is ALL that "entertainment" is really worth.
And ditto professional sports for that matter.
--I go to a public library occassionaly to use their computers. It's fun to be on high speed. Sometimes I use their printers when I am there, they have a modest fee on a per printed page deal. All the networked computers had their own printers until a couple of weeks ago,it was handy as you could set your own preferences and margins and copy count, etc, and not interfere with anyone else, check if you liked the results, etc. Swell. So now they switched to a print server thing, a big laser printer, but dig this! It's not out on the floor where you as a patron can just go grab your printouts, nope, it's kept inside the office, you have to go to the desk and ask the librarian to please bring your printouts.
I find this rather disturbing. The only reason I can see for this is so they can scan what you are printing. I even asked them about it, the person I asked literally flushed, then stammered then said "well, it's uhh easier this way" Uh huh If it was just to use a better printer, swell, but they have plenty of space out on the floor for it, in fact they have a few photocopiers etc aligned on the wall for public use, but NOT what you go find on the web and decide to print out, nope, that has to be done back out of view in the office.
Same library. Last summer I went in there, wires hanging from the ceiling, I traced them, saw (what I knew to be but are designed to not look like)obvious cams being installed that are aimed at the computers. I asked the same librarian then "what electronic stuff are you installing?". She said, "oh, that's just some electronic stuff". I asked again, "Exactly what kind of electronic stuff" "Just stuff".
uh huh
--main reason I am against computerised voting. I'd bet a LOT there's all sortsa nifty "features" in the code that got "reviewed" and judged "ok".
But, it's just so gosh darn conveninet to have the computer vote for me! And it's so modern and techy trendy! And "they" wouldn't do anything to affect a vote would they? I mean it's not like anything as important as control of a state or the world's most powerful country is actually enough motive and incentive for the nice people at E-VOTIN'TECH.con Inc. to do naughty things, is it?
Nawww-never happen in a billyun years, people are all honest, rilly and trully!
--CERT has been runing this "survey" about "internal threats" that companies might have observed between two specific dates. Not from such and such a date until the survey is taken by any respondents, but between two exact dates. I looked, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen a reason for picking the end date. I can speculate why that might be, but I'll let someone else do that.
/rant
begin more generic rant
Don't know about anyone else, but with patriot act 2 coming into law soon, where the government can just call someone a "terrorist" on their say-so, and with the definition just vague enough to apply to-just about anyone it appears- and that means they are now not under any civil protection or rights, I am wondering if they are starting to set up even more infrastructure to add to "the lists".
Anyone who don't take the "lists" serious is someday gonna be waving bye bye from the back of a truck heading..someplace.
When I was growing up, the stuff the US government is doing right now was something we were taught only "bad" places like east germany did. And those bad places had a complete blend of bureaucracy, large corporations, and then the military and police. Everyone snitched on each other. government had all the rights, you had none, even if some word drivel was printed on paper someplace, government ignored it. That's exactly what those bad places were.
We were taught that was definetly "wrong".
Now it's "patriotic".
Yes, we have a need for some sort of law enforcement effort on the net,and it's there and quite frankly it's more than enough to function, the net is part of society,but what we are seeing now goes WAY beyond it. And now all these other weird things? Model toy rocket permits now but leave the border just wide open, millions of illegals ayear free to just walk across? Huh? They are going to regulate or ban model airplanes, while they have been sprayinbg HUGE amounts of weird crap over america for several years now and outright lying about it? huh?? We have a MAJOR goon run cia front company called "wackenhut security" running private prisons,running for -profit manufacturing efforts using prisoners, running some mental institutions, and now RUNNING ROADBLOCKS on the public highway? This just broke a few days ago, private security org manning roadblocks. Just THINK on this one. We have "secret" Total Informational Awareness efforts codified into law? Is there something about the word "total" that isn't understood? Forced collection of DNA samples at roadblocks? Taking hair and blood samples and you aren't going to be able to say NO? Collation of all purchase records? High level officials who just blatantly WARN YOU that if you are NOT 100% behind their efforts that YOU ARE A TERRORIST? And now they are taking over these internet efforts when it comes to security, telling people what they can and can't do, and this "they" guy will tell you when an exploit gets noted and "official" patches released? Huh? What's to stop them from eventually making little cute distinctions between what they release and what they don't, suppose "they" decide they would like a little pre-patch hacking so they can get into machines THEMSELVES. Maybe they JUST DID THAT, hmmm?
sweet deal for them.
I am against non disclosure of exploits in a timely manner. Waiting months is not timely. Anyone writing code now can review it before release. Anyone NOT knowing about "security" in general needs to stop and step back away from the keyboard and stop writing code until they "get it" on security, because GUARANTEED if this constant release of buggy code continues,and if people who maintain what are historical examples of just dismal exploitable code that should just be chucked out as lame don't voluntarily just admit it's buggy and pull it off the distribution mirrors, this government will start regulating all releases themselves, after a "review". they don't do it now, but they sure as heck could make it a law tomorrow. In my opinion, it's better to be able to not give them any more excuses. If that's what everyone wants,because known sloppy stuff keeps being used and released, this is what's going to happen. You are going to see licenses, you are going to see full governmental review of code, probably fees attached, stuff like that, I tell you, the internet is going to turn into an electronic "highway" whoops they call it that, so that means that this highway is going to be full of smokey the bears and roadblocks and regulations. And I am NOT kidding on that. We saw them just hijacking sites last week. I can see them starting to do that on a much larger scale. And if sites get hosted overseas, you know what, government will have no problems dealing with that, if anyone cares to notice, they have no problems going over stomping on other nations, they can control some wires if they choose to. Host at home, you are going to outfox them? Not when they can just call up your isp and have you dropped, then they send over some goons to pick you up once you are on the "suspicious" list. And they'll do some of these efforts from major backbones or routers if they have to, I am not so convinced that carnivore and such-like efforts only have the capability to just sniff.
--too much touchy feely going on in the thread for me. sounds good, doesn't reflect reality too well, IMO. The primary reason for even the existence of the russian and US and now chinese space program is to hide yet again another whopper military budget as a "civilian" budget. There are civilian uses,of course, but I would about guarantee the efforts are based on having the high ground, and being able to use the high ground. The chinese hope to SUCK the west for free dual use R&D, both in terms of actual research and in terms of cash, exactly like they are doing in almost every other manufacturing area. One day they are going to say "hey, thanks for the free stuff the past 20 years, loved all them free factories you gave us and advanced technology, glad you liked the cheap crap we sold you,but, ya know, checking our stats, now we got all the factories we need, we have all the customers we need with our own people and the islamics, who got the oil we need,and you suckers in the west aren't needed any longer, so buh bye, take a hike".
That is what's going to happen.
Back to rockets and space and whatnot. It's the same with airplane design. The good stuff in civilian models is first invented and designed in the military side. Rockets, ditto. China wants reliable BIG ASS BRAND rockets. They are quite useful. Owning the high ground is quite useful. Obfuscating that and calling it a pure 100% "peaceful scientific endeavor" is coy beyond belief. It's coy when we did it, when russia did it, and now when the chinese are doing it, it's just been such a successful public relations dodge, so the good ole boys international dictatorship military and industrial complex guild approves of using this technique at all times.
The chinese are just as warlike, nasty, and run by their blood profits economic rulers as any other very large nation has ever been going back into history. There's never been whatever passed for a "superpower" or "near superpower" that WASN'T predatory in human's history.
And there's never been an example of a major technology that wasn't eventually used extensively in warfare, sooner or later. And every generation thinks they are the "special" generation that is somehow so that much more "spiritually evolved" and "sophisticated" and "urbane" that they won't participate in or suffer from, general widespread warfare. And each generation re-learns that that is a complete fallacy, time after time. Eventually though, the technology available to "humans in general" will actually be "too much" and it will most likely destroy most of mankind. I tend to think it will be from biological reasons, but missiles and old fashioned nukes and now beam weapons could do it same as anything else.
I guess this makes me a party poop in this thread. Oh well, I always call 'em like I see 'em.
..depends on how hard core you want to be, whether or not you can easily find another job, and what your resources are should you get fired and have to sue them, and what the applicable state and federal laws are regardings your employment and any contracts and NDA you have signed already.
The other much more knowlegeable folks here covered the technical aspects clearly. This is something that needs to be fixed, so what you need to do now is FIRST CY own A before you proceed further because it sounds like you have exhausted all the "normal channels" to get heard. You honestly need your own lawyer at this point, and someone who can review your contract in advance and is technically savvy enough to understand the concepts involved here. Proceeding from that point, understand that problems that cost large corps money, even when they need to be addressed, are not popular, and bottom line right now this second profits are usually WAY more important that future "what if this happened?" type scenarios. You should be prepared for a drawn out process of recouping money in the event you get fired is what I am saying. If the data is correct as you say, a savvy lawyer could feel that the potential benefits from winning a suit or accepting an out of court settlement(should that be necessary) are good enough that he or she would take it on a percentage contingency fee. That covers that, and accept no substitutes when it comes to selecting your own lawyer. You might have to include a proviso that the corp recoup your lawyers consultation and mediation efforts EVEN IF THEY AGREE THEN, CAN SEE THE PROBLEM, AND IMPLEMENT YOUR CONCLUSIONS, because that part will most likely come out of your pocket, and it can be explained you had to resort to out of pocket expense just to get anyone to address the issue.
Then get your ducks in a row, have YOUR lawyer approach THEIR lawyer with your proposal in a calm and rational manner, stating your case and your desire to not be retaliated against because you want to push the issue and see it as your loyal employee duty to "do your job to the best of your ability". If they then consider it to be still trivial, and fire you for "going over some PHB's head and not following orders and etc" and etc,or any other obvious retaliation, you would (most likely, guessing here) have grounds for a suit if they retaliated, but like I said, some states are a lot more decent about this than others. Some states allow corps to fire you no matter WHAT the reason, they don't need one, and trying to fight them or get any money from them is almost a waste of time.. Be prepared and be actively looking for another job before you do ANYTHING else, because matters could get sticky quick. If it is a publically traded company, you owning stock will probably allow you yet another angle in this, as you have rights as a stockholder to speak up at stockholders meetings, etc, that could be of assistance in your efforts. You are allowed as a stock holder some interesting rights, these are federal. A corp having such obvious securty flaws is really putting the stockholders investments at peril, should a widespead exploit occur. Egg on face for corporations cost them money, so by default the stockholders money. Delibately obfuscating problems or ignoring them has a lot of case law behind it, so in that sense you are coverted pretty good as a stockholder. Think just recently of enron and arthur anderson for example. It's not an exact parallel but close enough for posting and conversational purposes.
Really SUCKS when you are just trying to be intelligent and loyal and they bounce you around like this, ain't it? "Sorry Vern, just STFU and do your job!' "But I am TRYING to! We could get owned and a lot of customers really get hosed if we don't fix this like yesterday!" "STFU or you're fired!".
This is called "modern corporate mindset" and is more common than not near as I can see. I personally really try to avoid working for larger companies, from this very reason (very generally speaking), just got tired of dealing with peter principle factors all the time..
--so far in the thread I have seen discussions only from the point of view of an "outsider" attempting a malicious attack, or just "mistakes being made due to ignorance" at these various large routers.
My wondering is what IF a large politically motivated plan of action was contemplated and initiated. Perhaps these 5-6 serious brains at a few places were compromised, either blackmailed or bribed, or they were actual "true believers" of some large political factions ideologies? This could be a state sponsored event or a large private political faction. That to me looks more like the largest potential threat, short of just mass physical destruction of course. Your example of puncturing the tires of those gents to make them not be able to get to the shop reminded me of it, just turn it around to "the bad guys are in charge, on-site and are up to no good". What was the black hat geeks name in Jurassic Park? A deal like that but on steroids. Say I was "badguy" faction A and wanted to be able to conduct cyberwarefare at target country B. would it be a better bet and easier to accomplish remotely, or would it be easier for me to bide my time and get some few key ubergeek-personnel tagged in advance, compromised or "recruited" using a false flag approach? It would appear the latter plan has more chances of being more effective and easier to pull off. It's just a variant of script kiddies accumulating lower level zombie machines, it's just much bigger and uses various social engineering, which is nice because the preliminary work is not on the net for anyone to see indications it might be happening or being setup.
Now the main question I would have, how many people need to be compromised for this to be a pretty viable plan, in how many places? And suppose your own hierarchy is factionalized, that "orders may be given" to create some serious havoc, this could be done in such a way as to both create the havoc, and also to make it appear someone else did it, at least in the initial stages of the attack. Shifting the blame is a common "spooky" type of thing to do. So, how many across a big nation like the US would it take, one hundred, a thousand, 50? I don't know but perhaps it's a low number depending how far up the routing/traffic food chain you can get to.
--around a year and a half ago a similar situation happened in japan if I am remember correctly. It looked rather like a military test that got out of hand. I am medium suspicious of two separate systems failing at the same time, it reminds me of that other "accident" that was rumored to be some pretty advanced jamming.
Note to anyone, yes, this is pure speculation, I admit it out loud. My default nature that I am completelycomfortable with is whenever strange occurrences happen with "government"- anyone's government - I am suspicious of it as being more than incompetence or actual random accidents. Too many events over the years that at first looked one way turned out to be completely different, they were either delibarately done, or somehow they were collateral damage from something bigger that needed to occur for some agenda, or allowed to happen, again, for a higher level agenda not readily apparent at the time.
--they are a manufacturing outfit. I have no ties to these folks at all. Zero. If you don't like their web page that is perfectly OK, means nothing. It's navigable in moz 1.3 on my machine it appears. Anyone is free to research how long the company has been around, to talk to them or email, to research into what some of their customers might say, and etc, etc and ask any questions they want. If they do, they will find out. You are free to your opinions, but the company has been around a long time, and they make quality gear. It works as advertised and is suitable for the situations they outline on their page. this isn't all that exotic of a tech in general, for instance, ozone is used commercially by smoke damage companies, and by places with bad odors being associated with their work, like meat packing plants, etc, and it's well established. Most large metro areas have places that use similar equipment in the yellow pages. Your assertions not witstanding your pastes still don't mean that there are no practical useages. As has been pointed out elsewhere's on the thread, several posters here have anecdotals of using ozone to treat water, an alternative that eliminates the use of chlorine based chemicals that leave dioxin, which chemical it wouldn't be hard to find some references anyone could grab pastes to put here that would say quite clearly they are most harmful and poisonous and long lasting in the environment, for example. That doesn't mean that bleach is not useful for some purposes. No one has ever suggested one should attach a hose directly to the output and run it through to a mask and breathe pure ozone. That is silly of course, but used as directed for some specific purposes it can be one more way to deal with problems. I do know for example in areas that are experiencing the incredibly harmful "black mold" in walls of buildings that sometimes ozone treatments are really the only thing that is effective, short of just tearing the buildings down and throwing them away. That is all findable with google, so anyone may go look. I think that it is interesting to note this in these days of possibly biological attacks, it might be that these machines or similar might be useful in helping to decontaminate areas (buildings like the postal facilities that got infected in the anthrax attacks for example) should the need arise. Any promising tech should be explored in this area, and I applaud the efforts of the researchers in seeking a means to help insure the quality of foodstuffs without resorting to proven harmful poisons, as relating to the original parent.
I'll let any other readers make up their own minds of course, as the contact info is there and the details of their company are researchable. This has been..well, an interesting interchange but I believe our two positions are clear and in opposition, so any further give and take would just be useless trolling and banter now. Thanks for your comments.
..as pointed out, this particular company has a way to make the macrooxygen molecules without nitrous oxides or the resultant acids that could do the damage. That is what was associated with previous "ozone generators" that caused damages. They have already been reviewed by various governmental agencies and their equipment passes muster completely, and they have installs all over. Aranizer is (as far as I know) the only manufacturer that can make this claim of no harmful acids, they have patents on it, and have been around since the 1950s. If you look at their page you will see this isn't a quack or fly by night company. It is a serious and legit company with a variety of models they build and distribute, it's not some guy in his basement. I am sure that you (anyone you, I am speaking generally) could contact them for references to large commercial and satisifed customers with credibility. Like anything else, feel free to research on your own. I provided the info, that is all, I have no ties to them.
--and I hope that my economic analysis made some sense as well as my analogy. Just wanted to show an exact scenario. And therein is the main argument, with a past example of free trade following the method I outlined,a good example being our historical 50 state similar culture and more similar economic level "free trade zone". It was quite successful. Applying it to two or more highly divergent and disparatedly un-even economic areas doesn't work in the real world. It results in a lop sided two class society much faster than a developing middle class and any notions of 'freedom" or "representative republicanism". I can't even go into that "democracy" nonsense, and I am sure you know what I mean. You can have trade with uneven nations but until they approach parity it MUST be regulated so that any gains in the lower level areas are NOT offset by losses in the already successful areas, and also so that rampant despotism and exploitation don't get even worse in either of the nations.. This is by default a tedious process and has to be done on a case by case basis. And yes, it would classify as yet another of those lesser of two evils examples, and that is sad but just reality. And our current reality is that it really isn't working, situations like mine are becoming the norm and not the exception, and all indicators that I can see anyway indiciate that it will get much worse. We haven't shutdown our borders, the illegals are here by the literal million, who know's how many are AZTLAN revolutionaries or from other nations who are not here just to "get work", and millions of more still beneficial and non buggywhip jobs are being shipped offshore with no real alternatives for replacing them beyond government noises like "uhh, training, umm, loans , uhhh, ya that'll work". I can't even stand the insult to my intelligence on those "solutions", even beyond considering them to be anything more than soothing placating words to keep the two main faction's partsian supporters content. It is to me, quite embarrasing for those people. I am literally embarassed for them.
In my case, we are moving yet again,further out from our already quite rural area, several factors involved, mostly personal, and are going to a much smaller cheaper place where we intend to sit out the upcoming crash and social unrest, if we are allowed to and this government doesn't go off it's rocker into fascism even worse. I am 100% convinced it is coming, by the way. How severe it will be I cannot exactly say, no one can really, but I am pegging it now between bad and real bad, with almost armageddon style being a step or two after that. I think the next decade is critical for the survival of human beings on planet earth, strained economics being only one factor to consider but an important one. I think there will be more and larger "resource" wars primarily over oil, fresh water and some critical strategic minerals, and the chances any of these wars getting "out of hand" being quite large.
I also think, based on human nature and past historical models, that large scale use of WMD will become common, as no major weapon advances ever been *not used* extensively in warfare in human's past. Some took longer than others to be adopted, but eventually all advanced tech gets used extensively in warfare. And we could freeze technology today and it's already so far advanced into efficient killing that no more advances are needed to depopulate the planet. Michio Kaku the physicist and futurist agrees with this assessment as well, he gives the human race not much of a chance primarily from mis use of uranium, although there I disagree slightly and I think it will be from biological misuse as the primary reason, but really, that point is moot.
Not being pessimistic, just realistic. I had many conversations with older relatives about their personal experiences during the "great depression", and those were quite sobering. The primary thing I remember them telling me is those on small farms still got to eat and at least have food and water,and basic fuel for cooking and heating and cleaning purposes even if they were paupers, and as long as they could keep the tax man away they were still OK enough to survive. Those that didn't and were urban suffered a lot more. This time around it could be much worse, the percentage of people in the US who actually reside on such small farms is absymally low compared to back then, so any "crash" scenario will be correspondingly "much worse". I am talking "camps", some of them of the "not nice" variety, work camps not much better, widespread disease and famine,ratioining, governmental total command and control, etc. All the trappings. There might be even what the polite analysts call "social upheaval".
Again, thanks, sorry about the assumptions, it's just important to always put a human face on these matters.
Check this out, Aranizer brand, all the benefits of ozone with no harmful nitrogen oxides. Sizes from in car use with 12 volt all the way up to very large industrial applications.
--theory is fairly simplified and doesn't work in the real world except at excrutiatingly slow speeds and in a lot of cases it doesn't work at all. The cultures have to be more similar, and they have to start at a much closer economic norm for it to really work. Until they are closer together, it has to be treated almost something like the "prime directive" or something, and there has to be carefully constructed tariffs. Well, unless you don't give a crap about the imbalance, then swell, let the richer country drop until the rise in the poorer nation reaches a parity. That's what will happen and what you are seing happen now in the US, all this chimeric "prosperty" is based on mostly credit and the rest of the world using petro dollars as a reserve currency, it has little to do with "free trade", but the direct loss of productivity in the US does. Read any random slashdot thread when it comes to "jobs" see what some of your fellow forumites are going through, smart guys with degrees and experience. Guys who actually do the work and put in the time. You'll see some horror stories that are not a joke. I'm just a blue collar guy, you ain't interested what's happening with "my kind" right now so I won't bore ya, but read some of the IT guys anecdotals. This is REAL stuff happening to REAL people. I know some older folks who are realising they will never be able to retire now. I know middle class folks who are having to lose their equity because they got to sell out and try and find some place cheaper and they got to sell at a loss just to get out.
I don't class cheap gadgets bought on credit at slavemart on credit cards and longer house notes than they had just one generation ago and our lowest historical percentage of savings to be all that braggable.
And it really is *crazy* to arm and buildup a nation with a first class new vertical manufacturing model who has stated over and over that you are their biggest enemy, a nation that has political prisoners they shoot in the head and harvest organs from and sells them in catalogs. Only allows one political party. And etc, you know the drill. deal is, the drill is still true. Call me old fashioned but when I was growing up that was called "wrong", we called places that did that sort of stuff "bad places". Of course, random roadblocks didn't happen either, I certainly don't remember any. When I was a kid, my dad and moms generation as young adults, a blue collar guy could take roughly a few weeks income and use it for a downpayment on a real house, the interest rate was I believe around 4%, and the note was only about 1/5th an average guys monthly net after taxes. I guess that way of "doing trade" just sucked too bad, huh, had to "improve" on it.
Only consolation I got is I never voted for any of the morons who have been pushing this stuff. Not_one_ at least starting about 4 elections ago anyway when I finally just give up on "honesty" out of Dumb party and Really dumb party. I knew it before that, but kept getting sucked into the "just one more time, maybe this batch of bribe takers will be better".
If free trade worked in practice, then for example, since we have opened up all this trade with china we should have made money, but in reality, our annual deficit with them is 100 billion plus,that's just one nation, our total is much higher really, it's running 1.5 bill daily now, and that 100 bil number is roughly equivalent to the loss of 700 billion total, lost to our domestic economy, following the rough rule of thumb that one dollar traded locally that stays in circulation gets traded 7 times. Your theory is also flawed somewhat as the analogy isn't correct. It isn't two nations starting out at roughly the same levels in what they do and what they produce just different products. Nope it ain't. A closer analogy would be one of the nations as it is teaching and equipping and financing the other nation in how to farm corn and wheat, is simultaneously stopping growing it's own corn and wheat, so it will eventually have nothing to trade with. The "plan" then, the grand scheme, is we are going to "manage and service" this corn and wheat growing. Sweet deal I guess if you really really really think that other guy is that retarded and is gonna do that for very long. In reality once the other guy got all the corn and wheat and doesn't need any more help and has sucked you dry, he's gonna laugh at you and tell you to buzz off, and if you get pushy he's gonna knock ya on your can because you're too weak to fight because you ain't been eating because you ain't growing no corn or wheat. That's a better analogy of what's going on now.
Comes a time, we will have nothing they want anymore, and it's fast getting there. Fast. The "two billion armpit" sell we got shafted into believing never happened.. China sells us small ticket consumer items, what they primarily purchase from us are large ticket manufacturing tools, tools to make tools so they can get busy manufacturing wealth. They buy factories from us,or we even just give them to them, then they turn around and sell us stuff we made befor. And when we did it mostly all ourselves, all our loot sorta got spent with ourselves, and ya know what? It kinda was working pretty darn good most of the time. Of course, we had less uber millionaires at the top, but heck..can't have that, who needs a pesky whiny middle class anyway, buncha ingrates, they lucky we keep that inefficient minimum wage around, no matter, we'll drop it and they can be happy pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and work their way back up from 2 bucks an hour, after all, it's competetive that way...
Nope, what works, creating wealth, is actually A-making stuff,and B-growing stuff. That's it, that's all humans have ever come up with. You dig crap outta the ground, melt it refine it rarrange it into shapes, you "make something". That's one way. The next way is you literally plant a seed or you harvest stuff that is self planting, ya know, dumb stuff like wood for houses and furniture and food, ya, that's so useless it's laughable, humans don't need that stuff anymore, we can just use our replicators. Uh huh..
That's it, ya make stuff or grow stuff, that's where wealth comes from. Everything else that people call a job is "wealth re-arranging", it's not "wealth creation". You can only keep re arranging just so long until that level falls to a joke. A "service"economy is a pure -d lie. The old saying is you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. You can stay "busy" as in "busi-ness" for a while poking around in the entrails looking for flecks of gold eggs, but you won't be making any more.
People who don't really get it between theory and reality just haven't lost their jobs yet near as I can tell. That's the difference between a recession and a depression. Not saying it applies to you,no idea, but in case you haven't noticed, the economy is dismal,it's a 'facade' economy right now, don't believe me, the presidents economic advisor just quit, he's getin while the gettins good he is, the treasury secretary who sorta had a clue and who was getting annoyed at not being able to speak the truth and was embarrasing to the oil-n-blood good ole yee haw shills in the admin got fired and told to go away and shut up, greenspinner is talking the fed is hosed (as polite and quiet as he can using big fancy words) and might have to go to a gold backed dollar to stop the flight to the euro, the BLS stopped even collecting and collating and reporting some of the more important unemployment stats, and stock market levels and etc. That's real world happenings.
Run through bank derivative levels. Check out what's up with pension funds. We had like what, only 3 or 4 major companies went bankrupt who needed some qwuick bailing last year and it HOSED the reserve insurance for pensions that 38,000 other corporations rely on? Let's look at that ratio again....hmmmm... And social insecurity? please........
Nope, just have to say the practice as it stands today is a failure. From the world's largest creditor nation, to world's largest debtor nation in like what, 20 something odd years? That's some sort of great success story advertising? Almost exactly the same time frame since the great globalism "free trade" push? And NAFTA and millions of "free trade illegals" coming in? Would you personally like to cut a check for a few mil and help make our small county hospital solvent again? It was until we got a 25% increase in population of almost all total illegal aliens in the past three years, this despite them "working" here,oh whoops, 3/4ths of them ain't and are getting this and that freebie give aways, and the total cost of them is a net-loss of thousands a dollars a head per annum. A few large companies and some farmers and some contractors made some serious short term money,and that is changing already as it got over saturated, and it costs the local economy for them to make those profits, it certainly doesn't add the same per head that we had pre-illegal invasion. Really, the hospital is broke now, we need to build at least two new schools, you got the green man? c'mon, let's see it, we need it. The largest factory we had (that was here for generations) that switched to hiring mostly illegals at reduced pay folded last year and left. it's gone, buh bye. them jobs got--uhh, what jobs again? wonder how many divorces that caused, how many of them "for sale" signs I see were caused by that, wonder how many of them pretty new trucks I see at the lots came from that. I don't know really... sure seems to be a lot more for sale signs lately though, and them car lots slap fulla new lookin ve-hickles. Must be one of them "cyclic" things, ya, that's it... Guess that didn't work either. Oh ya, our crime stats about almost doubled in the past three years too, and we got our *first* gang warfare murders. I am so proud, you proud? I'm proud, we "big city" now! that happened just a month and a half ago, just so cool! And random armed home invasions. never happened before here. got the first two of them last month. Thanks again. feel just so free traded lucky! I love forced "multiculturalism" and being allowed the privelege of sharing my money for this privelege, I mean it's not coerced out of me..oh wait, yes it is.
I'd pass on this globalism free trade hoss crap if I could, unfortunately your "side" got the upper hand and will continue this "economic marvel" and the equally wonderful social marvel and the just groovy increase in "security", it's that old "just good" feeling, over and over again. Yep, your side done gonna free trade our butts all the way to bankrupting the nation,creating uncontrollable social chaos, then they get to retire to their armed guard walled villas in a US re-created as just another large two class technofuedal society.
Dang, you some smart boys. yep.
Thanks a lot. Ya, I know, it had nothing to do with you... and etc.... the theory sounds just so gosh darn good and all.... I mean really, sounded all sortsa scientific and I'm sure all kinza real smart guys with lotsa letters next to they names thunked it up and all...
Hey, read that leaked insider email from the world DAVOS economic conference? It's sorta a nifty read. Check out the economic "tone" of it.
Oh ya, p.s. and this ain't a fairy tale. tomorrow is my last day at work. I been looking for a replacement job for a few months now because I knew I was gonna need a new one. Hmm, every place I go-remember, I'm a blue collar guy now I can run this box but that's it,and even if I was a "sysadmin c-+? java caffeined out programmer" there ain't any of them kinda jobs around here that I'm aware of, and every place I go for work I can do seems to be slap fulla "free trade" people who don't seem to speak the same language I do and seem to live in places where a whole lot of them are all crammed into these places, something I really ain't seen before because I never travelled to none of them other free trade places where I guess they do that. So, that means I am ass-suming that that's how I get to live now? When I get this new free trade job wherever that is?
I just thorouhgly thank you and all your buddies who thunked this up and implemented it, for this marvelous experience. I been working over 40 years now,well close enough rounded off if ya count sumer work when I was in school, that was around at 50 cent an hour when I started, sometimes less, sometimes more, I guess this will now be what they call "fun". I will drive by freetrademart tomorrow-ya we got one of them, real cheap stuff, yep- and not buy anything in honor of this and not having a whole lotta them "spare" freetrade pieces of paper with dead presidents on them. I'll look at it though, promise.
--the trial was a jokeski, basically soap opera. What everyone expected-mostly-happened. They got found guilty but got a slap on the wrist. This is similar to most trials involving extremely wealthy parties. The basic rule of thumb is, the larger the intrinsic "worth" of the trial in terms of public impact, notoriety, financial concerns, etc, the less of a fine or sentence occurs as a percentage of the defendants net worth. Example, joe nobody breaks into the local store, gets caught stealing something. He'll pull jail time. He'll pull time in jail even before the trial, at least until bail is set if he even is offered bail that he can meet. At a minimum he might get say half a year in jail, totally not making money and in prison. I am being rather random here, but just to make a point. Large concern A or extremely wealthy international personage B, does a crime or series of crimes that is 10,000 times bigger in terms of "worth" than the small store burglar. Chances are high the large personages or corporation would get a relatively small proportional fine, his corporation won't be seized or dissolved, etc, and probably no actual physical presence in any prison.
I am also thinking in the real world of planet earth, that even if you are a high level judge, when you are talking literally BILLIONS of dollars at stake, that there are probably a lot of political and personally practical carrots and sticks that apply to "judging". None of those will ever be acknowledged in public, and would be denied if the question came up. It's like turn it around, put yourself in the judge's place realistically, exactly how physically safe would you feel for yourself and your family if you were ultimately responsible from removing the income stream from tens of thousand of people, many of them billionaires and multi millionaires, and of who knows how many shareholders who would lose more x-billions of dollars as their stock would be worthless and unsellable shortly? Would you ever really feel even remotely safe again?
--I can't say the reason for sure, but can guess. Last year microsoft execs have gone all over the world making offerings to governments who have made noises about going to linux. Soon thereafter, there's microsft at the door offerring either cheap software, free software, or in some cases, that plus now the source. It certainly appears to be an attempt not so much to get market share, but a desperation move to hang on to any market share they have. They have to think day to day, medium term, and long term. Medium term and long term just isn't looking too good for them, in my opinion. The computer world moves quickly, several large nations switching from microsoft could cause a snowball effect with other nations, and various corporations, and it could literally happen in one year. There's nothing magical about microsoft, there's been a lot of hugely successful corporations go bust or near bust, and do it quickly.
Frankly, I really don't give microsoft much longer to retain their large business model the way it's set up now. Most people do, I am merely guessing and disagreeing. Partly is security, their's is dismal and you have to be living in a mud hut out in some bushlands someplace to not know that. The other is economics, the entire world's economy is slowing dramatically, all companies and governments are instigating measures to cut costs, broadly speaking. Microsoft's products are just too expensive for what they do.
--I can't show you an example right now,(I will just presume you could find these with google) but I remember reading the US government admitted to doing a lot of official cyberwarfare against serbia when we invaded kosovo and bombed serbia. That and using the physical e-bombs that used carbon filaments to take down their electrical grid as much as possible, etc. Right now they also have an active psyops disinformation program to disseminate false news stories in broadcast and print media, on the net as "news" and in forums and chatrooms. It's just an outgrowth of propaganda leafletting and radio broadcasts. That would be separate from say civilian police actions against kiddie porners,etc, I am talking about pure political stuff run by the military or state department paramilitary spooks, so I guess those two examples count as state sponsored cyber warfare or terrorism.
--personally, I think the writer had the DUTY to keep even more notes, and release publically even more information. Instead she is "embarrassed" that we the poor planets peons get to see a small amount of what's going on. By her own words, these are the people who actually control the planet. We NEED to know what they really think and say and what they are planning, not this thrice spun drivel that finally makes it to the mainstream news. It's NOT just 5,000 peoples planet! They run it like it's ALL theirs, and these people are by default, so far removed from "no money and no power" they have NO IDEA how it is to really live like anyone "normal" in any of these various nations. As such, they only make decisions that benefit THEM and their drinkin buds, NOT you and me. That's the one thing she got wrong, it IS a cabal.
And I HOPE that middle class people reading this take particular care in really paying attention to the state of the economy. IF we have a severe economic reversal, which at this point I would say is way more likely than not, if the rest of the world abandons the federal reserve note in favor of the euro dollar and the muslim gold dinar possibly, the US will be in a WORLD of hurt. I mean BAD NEWS CITY. People are ignoring a problem now that is the worst conglomeration of economic factors the US ever faced. The TV talking econo heads have already scrapped the bottom of the barrel of happy face makeup, there ain't no mo left.
biodiesel is not biodiesel, except when it is, or isn't, but it is , no it ain't, but it really is biodiesel, but see, there's biodiesel, then BIODIESEL.
I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Your web site says two different things, and picking one or the other "proves" your point. biodiesel is a product that can be made from animal or vegetable fats. how you get there is different. Now you are telling me biodiesel is biodiesel except for when it isn't biodiesel.
OK, so much clearer now.
think I'll write my rep tell him to put his loot for any fed money in alternate energy into wind, PV and ethanol instead, just based on this.
good luck in your projects, hope your blood doesn't boil all the time. Maybe mixing biodiesel up with biodiesel does it, fumes or something...
point is moot, once dino doody oil hits 80$ a barrel there ain't gonna be any "spare" food quality oil grown in any quantities, animal or vegetable. Between farming costs and the resultant increase in natgas prices driving up fertiliser, well.. we'll see. Really,good luck, wish you well, I approve of all alternate energy products, a lot better than just complaining about things like most people do.
funny story, long time ago in the 70's, buncha hippy friends of mine going over to protest at seabrook nuke plant, asked me if I wanted to go. I declined. While they were over protesting I built a 4' x 8' solar passive thermosiphon air heater. it worked quite well. That's how I protest.
--"faster processors" and floating ram on the river of cpu denial! Bah! Why back in the day, REAL men had manual underwood typewriters we would mod with parts made on pedal driven milling machines, we'd make actuating arms and cams that hooked to the keys to run our sliderules! When we wanted faster processing we would go OUTSIDE in the snow, do ONE pushup-that was BOTH ways up AND down, get MUCH stronger, come back inside and TYPE FASTER. And we LIKED IT!