Slashdot Mirror
Ozone As Pesticide
Makarand writes "Purdue University researchers in the search for
alternatives to insect fumigants that damage Earth's ozone layer
have found that
ozone gas can be used as a potent
pesticide without causing any environmental harm.
Farmers could use ozone generators to get rid
of insects in their grain bins by releasing ozone
in them."
Two Birds, one stone.
is that a good thing?
PETA protest to follow...
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
"Scientists say the ozone layer is too thick after 2 decades of overuse of ozone as a pesticide. This will result in global warming, and the eventual extinction of humans, unless some sort of ozone layer thinning can be done."
all the farmers will do this and then in 20 years we'll have every evironmentalist screaming "theres too much ozone! we're all going to die! we must stop using ozone generators and start using CFCs!"
argh!
Might be wrong here, but I thought high levels of ozone near the ground was toxic to humans?
But the process won't add to the ground-level ozone that is a component of smog, they said. Maier said Purdue's ozone insecticide process uses such low concentrations of ozone that it rapidly dissipates. It would not add to ground-level ozone, which is a component of smog, he said. Can anyone clarify this reasoning? It seems to me that if a lot of farmers were using this that the 'low concentrations' at each location would add up. Yes, I know, that's only a thought experiment, but...
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
After reading this story I was thinking back and can confirm: Not a single photocopy clerk in our building has ever caught malaria from infected mosquitos.
Trolling is a art,
I'm kind of confused about the whole thing. The ozone layer is a Good Thing, protecting us from deadly UV rays. However, in the summer, when there are ozone warnings, it is because there is too much ozone in the atmosphere. What's the deal with that?
"We need an energy bill that encourages consumption." --George W. Bush, Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002 Thanks to http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms .htm
Ozone produced near the ground does not rise into the upper atmosphere to add to the ozone layer. It will sit near the ground and if the area has weak wind currents (like many vally areas) it will stay in that area and become air polution. LA is notable as an area that has significant ozone polution.
Well, low concentrations are present even in your body. Your immune system uses the ozone to punch holes in bacteria.
After a rainstorm, that funky smell is ozone, created by the lightning passing through the atmosphere.
So, small amounts isn't too bad.
01101001 01100001 01101101 01101110 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01100001 01110111 01111001 01100101 01110010
10 years from now someone discovers the increased quantity of ground level ozone is causing cancer (or whatever).
Suppose it's still better than DDT though.
that there is just trouble with that ozone layer.
it should really start doing something instead of making people complain all the time
because it is infringing on our patent. Please cease and desist immediately or we will be forced to initiate legal action.
ozone is a known anti bacterial. I am sure it would kill bugs in large doses too. ihave an ozone maker in my house and I can say from expierence my family does not get sick as often as we used to.
Is Ozone really safe? We are trying to bring down Ozone which is supposed to stay way way up there. I know that Ozone is good for our environment, but Isn't it just too much to produce O3 artificially just to get rid of insects? Insects, they do have their own purposes in our nature. I don't want to sound like those darn Environmentalists, but I don't think it's that good an idea to use O3 just to get rid of bugs... But still it sounds intriguing because it could replace chemicals which will do more harm to field grounds than it does goods.(like killing bugs maybe?) I say that using O3 should be carefully planned and how it could probably affect us all
buffering...
Why don't they just put people in those areas? Humans make Ozone! :-P
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Ozone is already used in quite a few water treatment facilities. It's germicide properties are long known.
There's even a company (TSO3) which uses it to sterilize chirurgical instruments, instead of high temps.
Using ozone to kill bugs is simply another use for it, although I wonder if they try to get it back or if they release it in the atmosphere.
Is producing more poison, esp that damage the nerve system like this, a good thing?
I don't know.
I'd rather see a decline in the monocultures that are vulnerable to insect attacks. Growing for example hemp alongside your other crops helps against pests and is a lot less harmful to the environment.
Growing a single crop is almost begging for trouble, and using pesticides is not going to the root of the problem. The insects will evolve.
While I would rather see natural predators of insects used for control such as birds, bats, and other insect eatung animals. I definately think this is a much better alternative that using dangerous chemicals such as DDT, or other chemicals that have been known to be contributing factors in causing cancer. Although I wonder if there is a possibility of harmful factors that we are unaware of caused by having too much ozone in the atmosphere?
Methyl bromide is certainly a nasty chemical,
but please keep the ozone OUT of my environment.
Ozone is great in the upper atmosphere, but
it is both corrosive and toxic. Of course
it kills the little bugs!
this reminds me of a story I saw once on 20/20 about a type of machine that released small amounts of ozone, trying to help people with asthma. Unfortunately, it only aggravated the symptoms. So, I see big lawsuits coming from farmers with asthma. Although the article claims it won't cause environmental damage, who knows. If it stays around, though, it might just sit there, and no further treatements will be necessary. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
"Farmers could use ozone generators to get rid of insects in their grain bins by releasing ozone in them."
Right, or we could, you know, fix the hole in the ozone layer.
TLoM: Nerds + DDR + Rednecks for the win!
Seems like grain silos and smog tend to be in different areas. I think smog comes from reacting ozone with unburned hydrocarbons.
Ozone might be effective and more environmentally friendly, but it might be too expensive or dangerous for widespread use. Of course, farm work has never been especially cheap or safe... this is just one aspect out of many.
There are health issues - though probably not that big - perhaps more free radicals in the air to give you lung cancer, and whatever you get when the ozone recombines with other gases, etc. Maybe nitrous oxides?
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Ozone is also a much better oxidant than O2. Gotta be VERY careful with that grain, a bunch of it can just burn at a smallest spark. The environment at the grain elevators also becomes much more explosive. Right now it's prohibited to smoke or create any open fire on the facilities there. Why? Because flour (it's not really flour, but microscopic particles of wheat) suspended in the air is highly explosive. Now imagine this air has high ozone content. Also, there always WILL be leaks from grain storage and ozone is poisonous.
Some friends have had luck with using Ozone Purifiers for their hot tubs.
Wasn't perfect (They still had to clean the tub twice a year), but better and less skin-irritating then chlorine.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Is the discovery that it can be used directly around foodstuffs what makes it news? I didn't even know that was a big deal, but now that I think about it, I don't recall us using those generators in the kitchen.
For example, check out the ozonizer here, or, search for "ozonizer" at Google, like I did.
In many large grain elevators inert gases such as nitrogen may be pumped into the silo's while the others gases are pumped out. N2 is pretty inert and is non-toxic. What is toxic is the lack of oxygen. Best yet, most of our atmosphere is nitrogen.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
The article says "It isn't clear how the ozone kills the insects," but apparently it does, and apparently in low concentrations. We are told that it "uses such low concentrations of ozone that it rapidly dissipates. It would not add to ground-level ozone." Ah, that word "dissipates." But as Barry Commoner reminded us, "everything must go someplace." "Dissipation" isn't the same as vanishing!
And generally speaking things that kill one kind of life (e.g. insects) are hazardous to others (e.g. humans).
See this factsheet, which notes, in part:
HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE FACT SHEET
Common Name: OZONE
CAS Number: 10028-15-6
DOT Number: None
* Ozone can affect you when breathed in.
* Ozone may cause mutations. Handle with extreme caution.
* Ozone can cause reproductive damage. Handle with extreme caution
* Repeated exposure can cause lung damage.
* ODOR THRESHOLD = 0.045 ppm.
* The range of accepted odor threshold values is quite broad. Caution should be used in relying on odor alone as a warning of potentially hazardous exposures.
WORKPLACE EXPOSURE LIMITS
OSHA: The legal airborne permissible exposure limit
(PEL) is 0.1 ppm averaged over an 8-hour workshift.
NIOSH: The recommended airborne exposure limit is 0.1 ppm which should not be exceeded at any time.
ACGIH: The recommended airborne exposure limit is 0.1 ppm averaged over an 8-hour workshift.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
FYI, There has always been less ozone on the poles because there is less light there, and if the ozone layer was going away - it would go away by the ozone layer moving to lower and lower altitudes, not by dissapating. This is because most ozone is created by certain frequencies of sunlight passing through regular O2.
Arguments like the freon argument are a fraud and have much more to do with DOW chemical loosing its patent on freon and having a patent on the only known replacement then they do to do with freon destroying the layer.
The likes of Bill Gates and Hillary Rosen should theoretically self-destruct?
Here's one hypothesis. Ozone (O_3) is really unstable and disintegrates into regular oxygen (O_2) and a nascent oxygen atom (O) at the drop of a hat. Once the ozone is inside the insect, this free oxygen radical, in search of electrons, can wreak havoc with the internal chemistry of the insect at a very fundamental level.
[unsure] Isn't it harmful even for humans to inhale ozone? [/unsure]
While ground-level ozone is bad for people, ground-level pesticides are worse for you. Furthermore, the real problem with ground-level ozone is that irt reacts with volitile hydrocarbons to make icky smog. This is not so much of a problem in rural areas (like, say, farms).
It breaks down in 20 minutes to pure oxygen, unless shielded by a nobel gas. It is one of the most potent oxidizing agents known.
In other words, they'd have to dump a metric assload of the shit to do any damage.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
Having worked around tesla coils and other equipment that creates/gives off a lot of ozone, I can tell you, if you are going to die some way, this is probably one of the best.
:-)
You get very very high if the concentration of ozone in the air gets too high. It's a very mellow high as well.
I don't know how dangerous to your brain it is though. It hasn't caused any major problems for me yet. But around electrical equipment that gives off sparks, it's really easy to get a build up of ozone gas, or as we call it at work, happy gas.
Plus ozone definitely has a distinct smell, I find.
Just some interesting tips.
Yes though, ozone is deadly, and I am not recommending "recreational" use of ozone. I have to inhale it, you don't.
~ kjrose
I don't know about that... Most farms that I've been around have had a problem with "volatile hydrocarbons"... At least the cattle ranches have.. ;)
Yes, one day I may actually learn to spell...
then let's start using freons in fridges again? ;)
Great, so lets not grow grain in LA or in a valley. Hey, I have an idea, lets grow it in the plains states where they have 20mph winds on a regular basis! Everybody always has to put in their 2 cents, but if they'd just shut up and think about it, they'd realize that their 2 cents doesn't really contribute much.
idiot
Ozone gas is not as toxic as many people believe. I recently built a Tesla Coil, which produces ozone gas. After turning the coil on then off, there was a nice smell in the air. I inhaled, in one session, more ozone than most people will ever come in contact with throughout their life. Am I dead? Suffering some horrid illness? Nope, just fine. Ozone is naturally occuring as well. Lightening, for example, produces large amounts of ozone gas. In fact, one bolt of lightening produces more ozone gas than a farmer would use to dust his/her crops.
Okay, Makarand, that's two articles in a row on the front page. You can stop submitting them now.
indoor marijuana growers have known of this convenient side-effect for years. they use ozone generators to neutralize smell.
So, how about we just store all the grain in LA?
is that a good thing?
Not really all that great--
A good part of smog near cities is ozone, and this is linked to health problems. The basic problem is that Ozone is not something you want to be breathing anyway, and it belongs in the upper atmosphere, not in our lungs. Basically Ozone is an oxidizing bleaching agent.
I have trouble believing that this would cause no environmental damage, though it could be better than our current alternatives.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
You would do well to look around the various publications about CFC effects on Ozone.
CFC's are chlorine and fluorine containing hydrocarbons that were used as refrigerants, wlectronic cleaners, etc. A common CFC is Freon 12, C(F)2(Cl)2. In the atmosphere, C(F)2(Cl)2 undergoes the following reaction:
C(F)2(Cl)2 + hv -> C(F)2(Cl) + Cl
k5 = 1.0 x 10^-7 sec^-1
The Cl then reacts with O3(Ozone):
Cl + O3 -> ClO + O2
k6 = 2.1 x 10^-11 cm^3 molecule^-1 sec^-1
ClO + O -> Cl + O2
k7 = 3.8 x 10^-11 cm^3 molecule^-1 sec^-1
In short, a Chlorine breaks off of the Freon, and then just hangs around in the ozone layer, converting Ozone into Oxygen. As Chlorine is just a catalyst in this reaction, it continues breaking down Ozone as long as it is present.
It should be noted, for the sake of anyone at least somewhat versed in chemistry, that these Cl-O3 reactions may be slow, but they are still orders of magnitude faster than the O3 production reactions, which are about 10^-33 cm^6 molecule^-2 sec^-1.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
A bug zapper is an efficient ozone factory with its high voltage, corona discharge, and ultraviolet light all bonding oxygen atoms together. Plus the byproduct of the generation process kills bugs too.
Can we patent the use of a bug zapper to produce ozone with a plurality of killing bugs in the process?
This is not necessarily a wonderful development. Ozone is a very chemically reactive molecule. Introduced into a grain silo, it is not going to be selective. It will not seek out bugs and pests first. What it will do is react with the organic molecules in the grain - generating all kinds of degradation products, many of which are going to be toxic, mutagenic, teratogenic, etc. Is that a good tradeoff for a few fewer beetle legs in your Cheerios?
n.b.: I buy Marcal paper goods, because they are trying to recycle and whiten their paper products using as many non-chlorinated oxidizing chemicals as they can. The paper industries use of chlorine and hypochlorite is a major source of the organochlorines in the environment.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I realize that sometime documentaries get their facts wrong. Perhaps the problem was really being caused by something else. I don't know.
Actually it is. The San Joaquin Valley
(a primary agricultural area in CA, and
the US) just passed LA for worst air quality.
Increasing ground level ozone would not
improve things.
Were that I say, pancakes?
In this case, it breaks down into diatomic oxygen (whereas ozone is triatomic).I think that counts as dissipating.
http://www.waterpik.com/about/Ozone_release.shtml
Ozone explodes cells on contact. When O3 comes in contact with cell membranes it basically rips the cell open with obvious consequences.
This product is meant to be used as a disinfectant. You spray the ozone enriched water on stuff and everything on the surface dies.
Beware that this applies to your own cells too. You breath enough ozone and your lungs melt.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
http://patents1.ic.gc.ca/details?patent_number=21
The following is info he passed on to me:
"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that ones work is terribly important." -BRussell
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I'd be interested in knowing what the source of the poor air quality is. If it's pesticides & particulates, then ozone would be great. If it's unburned hydrocarbons from tractors than they should either:
a) Not use ozone or
b) Clean up emissions from their tractors
made a mist ake with the url: there's an extra space in the patent number; remove it and the link will work
"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that ones work is terribly important." -BRussell
Sure, it may kill bugs, and may may be safe in the lower atmosphere, and may not harm the upper atmosphere's ozone layer, but will it actually help it?
Off hand I can't say, it wasn't covered in my
readings. However I do know signficant quantities
of livestock are raised in the area. A quick
search on google for San Joaquin air quality
turns up all sorts of information, much of it
making specific reference to problems with
ground level ozone.
Were that I say, pancakes?
Ozone is heavier than the atmosphere, and doesn't rise. The ozone that is up there is held up by the ionosphere. not to mention that carbon dioxide, not ozone, causes global warming.
i doubt it. consider that if it would help the ozone in any significant way, then we could have patched holes in our ozone layer a long time ago just by building large ozone generators. and ozone generators really aren't too difficult to build.
Check this out, Aranizer brand, all the benefits of ozone with no harmful nitrogen oxides. Sizes from in car use with 12 volt all the way up to very large industrial applications.
from simply having fine particulates in them.
Isn't Ozone unstable and breaks down from O3 to O2? Adding more oxygen to the interior of a grain bin sounds like asking for it.
Which will also cause the downfall of the banana plantations unless somebody comes up with solution against the Black Sigatoka fungus, whish spread just about everywhere. And all this just because we can't grow more than one sort of banana.
And besides that, he was wrong about the only replacement for freon. There are hundreds of various solvents/chemicals that can substitute for freon, with more or less success. Hell, you could even use butane as a refridgerant if you really wanted to.
Is ozone the hip new thing?
Where can I invest in this "ozone"?
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
This discussion has a couple places where i see people asking, if smog is bad for people and ozone is in smog, why isn't this ozone bad for humans? Well, i would like to ask the opposite question.
I'm from Houston. I am, incidentally, at Purdue now, but that's just a coincidence. Anyway, i'm from Houston.
Houston has a *lot* of ozone in the air. Houston surpassed LA as the nation's most polluted city a couple years ago. Houston also has a *LOT* of mosquitos.
If ozone kills insects, why hasn't all the ozone in the air in Houston killed some of the insects there?
Everyone keeps saying "well, the ozone they used wasn't dense enough to be harmful to humans." So if the ozone in the air is dense enough to be harmful to humans, as it seems to be back in Houston, it should be armageddon to mosquitoes, no? And someone else said that the ozone in smog is different from normal ozone becuase it's reacted with hydrocarbons. Okay, i guess that makes sense, but now that i think about it i very clearly remember days when the Houston city government released a "ozone warning". Not a smog warning, an "ozone warning". Did they actually mean "smog which contains ozone as one of its chemical components but also contains something that makes mosquitos immortal"?
Or have the insects in big cities just built up some kind of immunity to ozone? If that's possible, what's to stop the insects that live in grain vats from building up an immunity?
What am i missing?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I have heard of a plant (living organism) that produces ozone. It is called Basil or Ocimum basilicum, Ocimum Sanctum, Ocimum Spp [HL2000].
Some people aren't comfortable in swallowing information provided by holistics folks. Therfore, this claim may be considered outrageous.
According to local folklore, of the place to which this plant is native to, it keeps away snakes.
If this plant were effective as a pesticide, then they could be planted alongside crops to keep the insects away.
[HL2000]:Herb Information, Holistic Online, http://www.holistic-online.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h 15.htm
Thank you.
GrimReality
2003-03-01 20:36:37 UTC (2003-03-01 15:36:37 EST)
The situation regarding the antartic ozone hole is a different story. Polar stratospheric clouds form during the winter. Molecules containing non-reactive chlorine are condensed into these clouds. In the absence of sunlight, the clouds are more or less inert. However, at the onset of spring, photochemistry in the clouds leads to a large release of reactive chlorine species.
The problem is compounded by the vortex that forms during the winter. The winter and early spring polar weather conditions prevent mixing with the rest of the atmosphere, so all the ozone depletion is local. In late spring, the polar vortex breaks up, and the ozone hole goes away through mixing with the rest of the stratosphere. Furthermore, this is not just speculation. These theories have been confirmed by high altitude U2 and baloon flights that actually measure the concentrations of the relevant chemicals. There is a direct correlation between the release of reactive chlorine in the spring and ozone depletion. There has also been plenty of laboratory effort dedicated to measurement of the kinetics of all the relevant reactions. Ozone depletion is a well-understood problem. It can be modeled, and the models have confirmed by experiment.
Finally, all these ozone hole posts are really off topic. There is no connection between ground level ozone and the stratosphere.
For a compound that can be poured into open bowl and left there for days without notable loss, I find it a strech that it would dissapate into the upper atmosphere. It is also a strech that it would all happen to end up on the poles, end even more of a strech that any Cl in the upper atmosphere is caused by CFC's compared to the evaporation of say a billion tons of sea water anually. Not to mention a vast array of other natural pheonomia (like volcanos) that would put man made production to shame.
However, if you consider that freon was banned on the very same month that DOW's patent ran out - then it is not such a strech to believe it's more about cold blooded greed than facts.
High ozone probably would be extremely hazardous. I remember from organic chemistry that O3 cleaves double bounds into carbonyl groups. This would be great and all to kill insects: alkenes are vital to biological systems and cleaving them would obviously wreck havoc. Unfortunately, this cleaving is unselective. If the O3 would be absorbed into our body, it would attack our double bonds as well.
Actually, that reminds me a story an old chemistry professor told me about a doctor who was practicing a new method to cure cancer. The doctor would pump O3 into the patient and then feed them a reduction catalyst (such as platinum) and claim that it would kill cancer cells. What my chem prof was quick to point out (he was consulted by insurance companies in regards to this doctor) was that double bonds are Everywhere in our body, and while it probably would cleave the ones located in carcinogenic cells, it would also take out any others it could find.
In short, while O3 in the upper atmosphere is quite lovable, I anticipate that large concentrations on the ground (that would result from using it as a pesticide) would be quite toxic.
Ozone pollution used to be a problem in cities where there was lots of traffic. Ozone is poisonous, so that's understandable, but I haven't heard much harping about it lately.
Of course, Wormwood has the small problem of being not only repulsive to insects, but also poisonous to plants growing in soil near it, but thats just an engineering problem.
This is disingneuious, not even regular clouds are well understood. And what measurements? nobody is disputing that there is Cl up there, hell there is Cl everywhere, bleach your shorts lately? take a swim in the ocean lately? Funny how the weather pattern theory didn't come up until people noticed the hole actually decreased in size one year. Of course the fact that sunlight shining onto the poles would half to go through an amount of atmosphere that is orders of magnitude more thick than at the equator would have nothing to do with it I suppose.
Another political angle on the ozone is how any researcher seeking grant money only has to merely whimper the word ozone hole - and whop there it is.
One's a toxic brown gas, the other is (near) pure fun in convenient, easy to inhale baloon form.
Interesting timing. From Science daily today
"Led by TSRI President Richard Lerner, Ph.D. and Associate Professor in the Department of Chemistry Paul Wentworth, Jr, Ph.D., who made the original discovery, the team has been slowly gathering evidence over the last few years that the human body produces the reactive gas [ Ozone ]--most famous as the ultraviolet ray-absorbing component of the ozone layer--as part of a mechanism to protect it from bacteria and fungi. "
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
The world is overpopulated as it is right now.
There is no connection between ground level ozone and the stratosphere.
Is this because ground level ozone reacts with other chemicals in the air before it becomes stratospheric ozone? If not, then such a statement means that if the ozone we produce doesn't have anything to do with stratospheric ozone, one could easily deduce that other chemicals we produce have nothing to do with stratospheric ozone as well.
Not that it's really an issue anymore or anything. Replacing CFC's in various manufacturing processes and household appliances is both a process that's finished and proof that other such adjustments for the benefit of the environment are nowhere near as hard or as expensive as industry often complains. Remember when American industries were complaining fervently about how much damage to the economy such a change would make? They're sure quiet about it now.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
American Lung Association:
_ referral/indoor_air_quality/ozone_generatiors.html
...a review of scientific research shows that, for many of the chemicals commonly found in indoor environments, the reaction process with ozone may take months or years...contrary to specific claims by some vendors, ozone generators are not effective in removing carbon monoxide or formaldehyde...
...for many of the chemicals with which ozone does readily react, the reaction can form a variety of harmful or irritating by-products.
Ozone is a potent lung irritant and exposure to elevated levels is a contributor to the exacerbation of lung disease; it is especially dangerous for persons with asthma and other chronic lung diseases, children, and the elderly. Residential indoor ozone is produced directly by ozone generators and indirectly by ion generators and some other electronic air cleaners. There is no difference, despite some manufacturers' claims, between outdoor ozone and ozone produced by these devices.
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) took action in 1995 against two manufacturers of ozone generating devices. The FTC charged that they made unsubstantiated claims about the ability of their products to clean air of various indoor air pollutants and to prevent or relieve allergies, asthma and other conditions.
Consumer Reports (1992), the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) (Boeniger, 1995), and the U.S. EPA (1995) concluded that tabletop and room unit ozone generators are not effective in improving indoor air quality. Studies have found that while some indoor air pollutant concentrations decline in the presence of ozone, other pollutants increase. In fact, upon reaction with ozone, some previously undetected, toxic chemicals emerge in indoor air, including formaldehyde and other alehydes (Boeniger, 1995).
There is a lack of evidence in the scientific literature that would support the effectiveness of ozone at low concentrations in removing organic contaminants from indoor air (Boeniger, 1995). A recent study by the U.S. EPA demonstrates that ozone is not effective for killing airborne molds and fungi even at high concentrations (6-9 ppm) (U.S. EPA, 1995). At higher concentrations, especially above 0.08 ppm, ozone is a potent irritant that can bring about diminished lung function, cough, inflammation associated with biochemical changes, and *increased* responsiveness to allergens (Horstman, et al., 1990).
http://www.alaw.org/air_quality/information_and
EPA:
Some manufacturers or vendors suggest that ozone will render almost every chemical contaminant harmless by producing a chemical reaction whose only by-products are carbon dioxide, oxygen and water. This is misleading.
ozone does not remove particles (e.g., dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies
Ozone is not considered useful for odor removal in building ventilation systems
When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs. Relatively low amounts of ozone can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath and, throat irritation. It may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma as well as compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections.
Some studies show that ozone concentrations produced by ozone generators can exceed health standards even when one follows manufacturer's instructions.
The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that themselves can be irritating and corrosive. http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
Ozone generators are nothing but a dangerous scam.
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
American Lung Association:
_ referral/indoor_air_quality/ozone_generatiors.html
...a review of scientific research shows that, for many of the chemicals commonly found in indoor environments, the reaction process with ozone may take months or years...contrary to specific claims by some vendors, ozone generators are not effective in removing carbon monoxide or formaldehyde...
...for many of the chemicals with which ozone does readily react, the reaction can form a variety of harmful or irritating by-products.
Ozone is a potent lung irritant and exposure to elevated levels is a contributor to the exacerbation of lung disease; it is especially dangerous for persons with asthma and other chronic lung diseases, children, and the elderly. Residential indoor ozone is produced directly by ozone generators and indirectly by ion generators and some other electronic air cleaners. There is no difference, despite some manufacturers' claims, between outdoor ozone and ozone produced by these devices.
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) took action in 1995 against two manufacturers of ozone generating devices. The FTC charged that they made unsubstantiated claims about the ability of their products to clean air of various indoor air pollutants and to prevent or relieve allergies, asthma and other conditions.
Consumer Reports (1992), the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) (Boeniger, 1995), and the U.S. EPA (1995) concluded that tabletop and room unit ozone generators are not effective in improving indoor air quality. Studies have found that while some indoor air pollutant concentrations decline in the presence of ozone, other pollutants increase. In fact, upon reaction with ozone, some previously undetected, toxic chemicals emerge in indoor air, including formaldehyde and other alehydes (Boeniger, 1995).
There is a lack of evidence in the scientific literature that would support the effectiveness of ozone at low concentrations in removing organic contaminants from indoor air (Boeniger, 1995). A recent study by the U.S. EPA demonstrates that ozone is not effective for killing airborne molds and fungi even at high concentrations (6-9 ppm) (U.S. EPA, 1995). At higher concentrations, especially above 0.08 ppm, ozone is a potent irritant that can bring about diminished lung function, cough, inflammation associated with biochemical changes, and *increased* responsiveness to allergens (Horstman, et al., 1990).
http://www.alaw.org/air_quality/information_and
EPA:
Some manufacturers or vendors suggest that ozone will render almost every chemical contaminant harmless by producing a chemical reaction whose only by-products are carbon dioxide, oxygen and water. This is misleading.
ozone does not remove particles (e.g., dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies
Ozone is not considered useful for odor removal in building ventilation systems
When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs. Relatively low amounts of ozone can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath and, throat irritation. It may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma as well as compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections.
Some studies show that ozone concentrations produced by ozone generators can exceed health standards even when one follows manufacturer's instructions.
The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that themselves can be irritating and corrosive. http://www.epa.gov./iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
Ozone generators are nothing but a dangerous scam.
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
..as pointed out, this particular company has a way to make the macrooxygen molecules without nitrous oxides or the resultant acids that could do the damage. That is what was associated with previous "ozone generators" that caused damages. They have already been reviewed by various governmental agencies and their equipment passes muster completely, and they have installs all over. Aranizer is (as far as I know) the only manufacturer that can make this claim of no harmful acids, they have patents on it, and have been around since the 1950s. If you look at their page you will see this isn't a quack or fly by night company. It is a serious and legit company with a variety of models they build and distribute, it's not some guy in his basement. I am sure that you (anyone you, I am speaking generally) could contact them for references to large commercial and satisifed customers with credibility. Like anything else, feel free to research on your own. I provided the info, that is all, I have no ties to them.
The ozone would not be used to spray crops, that is patently impossible. That would most certainly impact the amount of ground-level ozone and would be logistically very difficult (a machine that makes more ozone than in LA smog?). The toxic effects would also certainly kill any human in the field as well.
It would be used to protect HARVESTED crops that are in silos and other closed areas. Your hemp in the field wouldn't do anything for a silo of harvested grain.
"without causing any environmental harm" just like DDT , er wait a minute...
L053R
I don't know if this is why but it's true -- LA has very few bugs, one of the major things contributing to southern California's outdoor lifestyle. Many people don't even have screens, and leave their windows and doors open all the time. The patio is treated like just another room in the house. This would be unthinkable on the east coast, where you'd get eaten alive!
Not only that, but smog makes for wonderful sunsets.
I live in the ATL and i'm sure we have enough O3 to qualify as pesticede, yet we still have hella mosquitos.
American Lung Association:
There is no difference, despite some manufacturers' claims, between outdoor ozone and ozone produced by these devices.
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
Also the fact that you would try to insult our intelligence by claiming you have no ties to them is a joke. And judging by the shitty web design work this "company" more then likely is nothing more than a quack fly-by-night company ran out of some guys' basement. At least no type of reputable company that could afford to contract any decent website designer.
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
Great, so lets not grow grain in LA or in a valley. Hey, I have an idea, lets grow it in the plains states where they have 20mph winds on a regular basis!
;)
Most of the plains aren't as flat as people make them out to be. Where I am in Kansas there are plenty of hills and vallies, and storage bins tend not to be placed in the center of flat fields where crops could be grown, no sense in wasteing good ground when there is plenty of other places to stick them. Farmers also work hard to stop the wind to limit soil erosion
Everybody always has to put in their 2 cents, but if they'd just shut up and think about it, they'd realize that their 2 cents doesn't really contribute much.
idiot
right back at you
How about Carbon Dioxide (CO2)?
Or as someone mentioned in an earlier post (I'm not familiar with this one for pest control) Nitrogen gas?
I have a friend who is an organic farmer in southern Saskatchewan, Canada. He had some cars of grain for export to Japan via the port of Seattle. Somehow, they ended up on a siding in Utah for a few days, and picked up cotton weevils (probably hanging around on the ground; there is lots of spilled cargo on sidings). Now, they won't eat grain, but like any crop, the grade does down if there are too many bugs in it. And you can't use pesticides, because, again, it's not organic grain at that point. He was getting 3x standard grain price for his organic crop, so there's a major loss potential there.
This was about 15 years ago. What he did was use a method developed by the University of Manitoba.
They travelled to Utah, bought rolls of poly and duct tape. They sealed the cars involved (I think there were three).
Then they pumped CO2 into the cars, with a fairly low-tech system involving compressed gas cylinders bought at the local welding supply store. Kills all bugs dead in 24 hours.
At the port, the grain is screened (separates dead bugs from grain) and since there were no live bugs to propegate, he got his grade and his $C 9.00 a bushel ($ US 6.00) for organic wheat. The port grain handlers said there wasn't any living bugs, of any kind, that they could find.
Ground level ozone exists and really is an indicator that hydrocarbons are being released into the atmosphere.
For example, when you fill your car and vapor is displaced from the tank's ullage and escapes during the refueling process, it is predominately composed of n-butane, isobutane, n-pentane and isopentane. The butane and pentane then react in sunlight and "steal" an oxygen atom from an O2 to form an alcohol, and the remaining single oxygen atom binds with another O2 to form O3, or ozone. Ozone is at a lesser energy state than monoatomic oxygen, hence the reaction.
The alcohols continue to react with nitrogen compounds in the air to ultimately form peroxyactylnitrile, or PAN, the brownish-red haze known as smog.
It's all simple thermodynamics. Everything wants to be at its least energy state, and PAN is that completely fallen brick. But back to ozone - it's just one compound created in the process. The real culprit are the hydrocarbons released into the atmosphere that start the whole chain of reactions.
People typically tend to falsely associate ozone as a culprit unto its own.
--they are a manufacturing outfit. I have no ties to these folks at all. Zero. If you don't like their web page that is perfectly OK, means nothing. It's navigable in moz 1.3 on my machine it appears. Anyone is free to research how long the company has been around, to talk to them or email, to research into what some of their customers might say, and etc, etc and ask any questions they want. If they do, they will find out. You are free to your opinions, but the company has been around a long time, and they make quality gear. It works as advertised and is suitable for the situations they outline on their page. this isn't all that exotic of a tech in general, for instance, ozone is used commercially by smoke damage companies, and by places with bad odors being associated with their work, like meat packing plants, etc, and it's well established. Most large metro areas have places that use similar equipment in the yellow pages. Your assertions not witstanding your pastes still don't mean that there are no practical useages. As has been pointed out elsewhere's on the thread, several posters here have anecdotals of using ozone to treat water, an alternative that eliminates the use of chlorine based chemicals that leave dioxin, which chemical it wouldn't be hard to find some references anyone could grab pastes to put here that would say quite clearly they are most harmful and poisonous and long lasting in the environment, for example. That doesn't mean that bleach is not useful for some purposes. No one has ever suggested one should attach a hose directly to the output and run it through to a mask and breathe pure ozone. That is silly of course, but used as directed for some specific purposes it can be one more way to deal with problems. I do know for example in areas that are experiencing the incredibly harmful "black mold" in walls of buildings that sometimes ozone treatments are really the only thing that is effective, short of just tearing the buildings down and throwing them away. That is all findable with google, so anyone may go look. I think that it is interesting to note this in these days of possibly biological attacks, it might be that these machines or similar might be useful in helping to decontaminate areas (buildings like the postal facilities that got infected in the anthrax attacks for example) should the need arise. Any promising tech should be explored in this area, and I applaud the efforts of the researchers in seeking a means to help insure the quality of foodstuffs without resorting to proven harmful poisons, as relating to the original parent.
I'll let any other readers make up their own minds of course, as the contact info is there and the details of their company are researchable. This has been..well, an interesting interchange but I believe our two positions are clear and in opposition, so any further give and take would just be useless trolling and banter now. Thanks for your comments.
works on rats well. Russia, 1990. Ozone decays fast, so by the morning staff can come in safely.
Ozone has been used as an effective pesticide since the early 90's both in the States, Europe and Australia. Granted Ozone can be toxic, which is why caution must always be applied to the amount of Ozone which is to be applied in such circumstances. Ozone has also been used extensively since the second world war - especially in Germany - as a form of therapy recently famed as the new "Ozone therapy". The fact that some posts have pointed to possible bacterial applications is not surprising as it has also been used as a means of removing various antibodies from the blood for blood purification experiments. There are lots of concerns out there regarding this issue, and rightly so, but the concerns should be pointed more towards the protocols established for applying these ozone techniques, rather than just the techniques themselves.
It wouldn't all end up in poles, as you said, the ozone layer is naturally thinner there, and if all released chlorides disperse evenly into entire globe, the first holes will naturally be formed in wherever the thinnest spots were.
1) Negative ion generators != ozone generators. Read. Learn.
You read. If the Sharper Image products didn't generate ozone, why do they all come with information & warnings about ozone??
"About the Ionic Breeze® and Ozone limits (top)
The Ionic Breeze® complies with US safety standards for low ozone emission (less than 50 parts per billion). We recommend that individuals with a history of respiratory disease consult with their doctor about possible heightened sensitivity to very low ozone."
2) A review that indicates that one model/brand of air-purifier doesn't work does not imply that ALL air purifiers do not work. Read. Learn.
You provide nothing to read. What brand of negative-ion type air purifier does work, and has been verified by a third party?
I've been using things that claim to use ions to clean the air since I was a kid, and when the ion generator is on, I get a sore throat. I haven't tested them all yet, but I have had this experience with 10 different models.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
There is a major flaw in the science in your post. While sea water and volcanos do emit large amounts of Cl, they tend to emit it as water soluble compounds, so it is removed by rain, pretty quickly. CFCs and the like aren't nearly so water soluble, so they make it up to the ozone layer.
Warning: Some ideologies on the Net are smaller than they appear.
Is anyone else as impressed as I by the sheer number of "Well, what'll it do after 20 years?" posts? Certainly, it's a logical and obvious question given the original ozone depletion problem, but it's still very refreshing to see so many people asking about ill effects that might not manifest themselves without decades of prolonged use by every farmer in the first world.
Dyolf Knip
That's one way of looking at it.
Personally I would consider anyone knowingly entering a hard, dangerous and easy to go bankrupt profession, well..., STUPID!!
[ Reposting to get past AC 0 rating ]
Dear Scorilo - I hope and pray your father gets better.
> This very militantism makes me take the medical establishment counterclaims
> re: ozone with a grain of salt.
You made some good and balanced points. I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss the posting a little below this thread -- it links to this story [sciencedaily.com] on human antibodies producing ozone to attack bacteria and fungi. Maybe the autohemotherapy you wrote about earlier could help destroy cancer cells in a similar fashion?
The Science Daily story links to the abstract of the published research [pnas.org] in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It seems that publication date is 24 Feb - so you could try reading that issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in a University library, or try to contact the paper authors for more input.
Best wishes to your father and your family.
In the (illegal) world of indoor marijuana growing, ozone is often used for odour control - it works very well.
It can either be periodically released into the growroom, or it can be released into the air extraction system on its way out of the growroom - or both (if you're trying to control a lot of smell).
Using ozone for odour control or/and cleanliness (in other fields) isn't a new thing though.
The best natural pesticide is cocaine. Insects O.D. on it much easier than warm-blooded animals, cause coke is much more effective reuptake inhibitor for octamine (sp?) a neurotransmitter specific to insects, than dopamine. (the way over which it affects humans) THC is no slouch either. Most bugs can't eat weed :)