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Microsoft Opens Source to China
angst7 writes "ZDNet is reporting that Microsoft has signed an agreement which would allow the Chinese government access to Windows source code. This is part of an effort to curb the shift toward Linux in China due to that country's concerns regarding the security of closed source software." Reader NZheretic points out that less than a year ago, Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
not opens source to China.
just using its own form of open source - you just need to yell "Hey were going to use Linux!" and you get the source ;-)
And this hurts the US National Security?!? WTF!?!
Well, it looks like terrorists are gonna be the first to see the source... :/
You are great player! Present you with points!
And I thought it was just Bill Clinton that sold us out to the Red Chinese...
I guess Drudge was wrong all along, eh?
Now that China has the source code we can look forward to some really nasty ones.
How long will it be before Windows appears on a CD-ROM with a makefile and the file called COPYING?
maybe its not all the source... you know they could just release parts of it.
I have heard people discuss this and say something like "Oh boy, I wonder if the code will be leaked and we can be free to modify windows! Yaaaay!" Not. Who would want to modify windows? I mean, you can make workarounds for problems that exist already without having source. If you want a fully modifiable OS, why don't you just go with Linux?
if the Chinese can't recreate the shipping binaries from the source that MS shows them? The last time the question came up (the Caldera suit) Microsoft finally had to admit that even they couldn't reproduce the distribution binaries from source.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
can they type: ../configure;make windows;make install?
If not -- then how do they know that the code they are looking at is the same version that goes into the build on their desktops?
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
'Course, that's becoming true in God-fearin', red-blooded, good ol' 'Merka as well.
Just curiously... if all the linux users care about is open source, wouldn't the functionality of windows compared to linux IN SOME ASPECTS cause a flux of *nix users to use windows if they could fiddle with it as they liked? I mean besides server issues, windows is the way to go if your computer is really just a PC.
(Hope)This may actually be the first step to going completly open source (/Hope)
But, I doubt it.
The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.
When he swore under oath that opening the source for Windows would be a threat to national security, I completely agreed. The number of security holes in Windows with the source remaining closed was bad enough. Now China gets to see the source, and we don't? Wouldn't that put them at an advantage over US companies that can't audit the code for security holes?
What's the corporate punishment for treason?
What's this Submit thingy do?
Sorting through gigabytes of Microsoft legacy code that was written under the pretense that nobody would ever see it. Now there's a scary thought. I'd hate to be the guy with THAT job...
How difficult would it be to leak the source to Windows XP out of China? I don't know really, but it seems to me a heck of a lot easier than to get it out of Redmond. And M$ can't go after the Chinese government with a lawsuit.. that'd create a sweet precedent. Would Bush bomb Beijing over Windows XP? Sad thing.. he probably would.. ;-)
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
--sex
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
less than a year ago, Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
So, does this open the door for a purjury investigation? I would think that a number of companies would look upon this with great interest.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Many, many countries already have access to the Windows source, not to mention many businesses and universities.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
Well, I'm sure they won't open *that* part of the code.... (*cough* *cough* secret backdoors *cough* *cough*)
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
MSFT would say something like this...
I think China as a whole follows more rules than the loose nuts in the universities and companies in the US.
They will swear under oath too.
S
This must be a covert attempt from Microsoft to destroy China by weakening its national security!
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
No, it would compromise security if the vagrant open-source developers saw the Win32 source code. China, on the other hand, certainly isn't a threat.
Just replace "national security" with "microsoft security", and things make sense.
--
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
They often releases it to schools with various NDA's, as well as businesses under various agreements, but that's usually for educational or development reasons.
The deal with China seems to be a combination of PR and sales, rather than education and development.
frob.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
who cares what Greedy ol Billy borg does anymore, i don't use their virus,worm spreading kludgeware anymore so i could care less what he does with his OSs & sourcecode...
there will probably be a chinese Windoze OS out in another year, without M$ branding on it, i don't want that one either...
Got Tux
So either the source is "open" or "closed"?
Microsoft would never think of a no-charge license for *some* of the source with a non-disclosure agreement, and keep the national-security sensitive stuff to themselves?
I'm sure it still can be damaged by disclosing Windows source code. Still two factors mitigate:
First, Microsoft has come a long way in improving the security of their products. They have fixed many bugs, and new bugs are coming in a bit slower... They also have better disclosure and faster turnaround on fixes. So Microsoft has made big improvements there.
Second, the damage to national security is less signficant than the damage to Microsoft's bottom line if they don't turn over the source. Who ever said that Microsoft thought national security was more important than profit???
I cant wait to put my hands on that baby, i know, is an ugly one but would be very intersting to look the sources. This make me wonder, with all the security issues that Windows has isnt a bit dangerous to give the source to only one country who could find several bugs and holes by looking at the codes?, isnt it scary?, say bye-bye to Windows on sensitive servers.
Sigs are for morons... Wait a minute...
and says you can look, but not touch. It's just a tease.
Isn't that what's going on here? Micro$oft doesn't actually give China (or whatever country) the source for Windows, they just let them come to Redmond to peruse the source. How does that keep anyone from going to Linux, where you've always got the source and you can always change it if you like?
So the US government needs to either arrest Jim Allchin for perjury or Bill Gates for treason.
"No he ain't - hes LAOSIAN (sp), ain'tcha MISTER KHAN?"
So which is it, Microsoft? Treason, or perjury (or both)? (Yes, Microsoft bashing is fun, you should try it some time)
The ocean parts and the meteors come down
Laid out in amber, baby.
Unless the ability to compile the source and run the resulting binaries is there, this is a meaningless gesture as there is absolutely no way of knowing whether a given version of the OS matches up with the allegedly corresponding source.
this is the second time microsoft has supported terrosism. microsoft is a two talking corp, doj need to raid the headquarters, and cataloge the campus contents over five years
I wonder if China and other governments will be tobuilding their own binaries and install CD's...?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
1. Turn over source code to foreign governments hostile to the United States.
2. Compromise National Security.
3. ???
4. Profit!
anyone else having thoughts of the Code Red virus 2 yrs ago that defaced websites with "hacked by Chinese"? Kinda ironic if it happens on a Chinese server, huh?
$cat
Just because you un-weld the hood of the car doesn't mean you can make that outdated-15-HP-two-cylinder-powered-pinto-with-squ are-wheels run any better. The *nix communities will not be hurt in any way from this. We started out a step ahead of the game and we will always be one step ahead in the future.
Just my $0.02 cents.
It's just that M$ can't go after China with an army of lawyers. When a school or corp breaks their NDA, they end up in court. I wonder what happens when China breaks NDA.
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
No offense to China (I have been, nice country, in the places I was anyways) But does this not seem kinda ironic, Windows, sharing source *whatever strings attached* with China? But on a serious note, whats the chance theyll ever do anything with it? is China gonna make a serious "Windows For China - Big Brother Returns part 4" or is this purely a PR? Karl P
..that microsoft is sharing it's source with a country that has really secure computers..
---
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
That's what I was going to say. I was also wondering if MS should even be sharing with China's Government? I mean they are an evil bunch. Why is MS helping China who will just use Windows to better exploit its people. Oh wait, now I remember why. $$$
I would NEVER do business with China for all the money in the world, I guess I'm not surprised MS will though. We can't prevent China from using Linux since its freely available, but at the same time I don't think MS or any other American company should be selling China technology or any other products.
It could damage national security and they've licensed it to China and Russia, but not the US? MS must be living in a really strong reality distortion field ....
All your data are belong to Beijing...
Trade secrets: Beyond a doubt there are piles of things in the source code that could be considered trade secrets. One way to protect trade secrets is to make certain that they are widely available but not legally available. In the cynic's view (i.e. mine) M$ wants the code to be leaked by China.
If the code is illegally leaked, it is very easy for M$ to accuse other products (future Linux apps?) of using illegally acquired trade secrets. How can the authors, living in countries around the world, prove that none of them have ever seen illegally leaked material?
Based on what I have read about the development of the clone of the IBM BIOS, it appears that the burden of proof de facto lies on the defendant to show that they are not using trade secrets illegally.
This may give M$ a very big gun to point at any colloboratively developed code that they don't care for.
You did read the article you're now commenting on, didn't you?
From the efficient screensaver dept.: POKE 53281,0:POKE 53280,0:POKE 646,0
I have to ask, what system is that from, and what does it do? My first instinct says Apple II...
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
"Microsoft sells out U.S. National Security to undermine competition."
So after the US and the "western world" has dished out billions on windows, the MS-MoneyMaker decides to screw us all by handing over the precious code that we pay so dearly for (businesses at least) just because its popularity is down. I see this as a marketing scheme to get the MS name out to theother side of the globe which is beginning to trade in their rice for mice and keyboards, and evetually will be a great force in the OS market. However, allowing the Chinese government to see any part of the code they want is not exactly good form for the "older customers". In addition to security questions ($0.10 says it spreads to Korea, Russia and the Phillippines, wher piracy is thriving), the new partner that Gates is so enthusiastic about, (Chinese gov't) is relying on Red Flag Linux to cooperate with windows. This is going to backfire onGates real bad, and possibly on US businesses too (like our economy needs it).
Thats why people can place .exe files, run them on your computer to start hidden threads, and spy on your activities.
.exe, I'm talking window's backdoors. Windows has so many holes wanting to get fucked its like a bitch with two cunts put in men's prison.
Get all the security updates. Run internet explorer and if you browse the wrong website, you get em! I'm not talking downloading and opening a
God spoke to me
...security goes out the window. (no puns actually intended).
The almighty dollar means more than anything to a corporation after all. Laws, security, morals - whatever - have nothing to do with how a corporation acts, unless it will affect profit.
BlackNova Traders
He said it could damage national security. How is that perjury?
Sorting through 50 million lines of code, finding hundreds of thousands of vulnerabilities to exploit in windows, and thereby becoming the predominant information-warfare player, at least in terms of potential mass disruption, on the planet.
Someone in China is smiling sagely over this one.
Please stop being racist yourself, your arguments cut both ways. You are no more right than the original poster.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Although I've always felt that "cyberwar" scenarios were rather overblown attempts at giving backroom geeks frontline roles, the military certainly takes it seriously; one well-received military paper a few years ago warned that America's IT defenses were on a par with the ability of Task Force Smith (whose ignominious retreat from Korean forces showed how woefully unprepared America was for the Korean conflict).
As we know, China has been touted as the first great cyberwar enemy; allegedly, China does have a "hacker brigade" tasked with disrupting American networks and computer systems in times of war, to rectify the strategic imbalance between the two nations. Now, Microsoft plans to open to a strategic rival of the U.S. the internal code that will power the Navy's upcoming CVN-77 aircraft carrier, plus other "smart ships."
This raises an interesting question for the Administration: although, as Vann H. Van Diepen (Director of the Office of Chemical, Biological, and Missile Nonproliferation) told Congress, export controls to China are not enforced in "areas where the technology is widely available as commodity items ... such as low-level computers," the source code to a mission-critical operating system used by military C4 systems is certainly not a "commodity item," nor is it "widely available." Will the White House put national security over Microsoft's profits? Les Kinsolving, call your office!
"Freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more."
"All warez copies of Windows actually fake versions distributed by the Chinese"
"Microsoft Source Code leaked world-wide"
"Microsoft discontinues entire software division and focuses full force on their Mouse and Keyboard division"
1- China Gets Source
2- China uses Message Queing to break or break into asian corps, and small countries which have little security
3- China now has massive espionage in 2nd/3rd world countries, and united states corporate subsidiaries in those countries
4- China invests heavily in US stock market
5- Profit!
At least that is what an Evil empire would do...
your right. Face it, most of the slashdot readers are 13 year old kids. They don't know what the real world is about.
Or big liar.
US national security, from the software point of view, was already compromised on all systems running WindowsOS and assosiated backoffice and client side products. The only thing required in this case is to install software and pray for timely releases of security patches, providing MS considers flaws moderate to critical.
However, this is pretty significant move and raises few questions:
Perhaps none of these but there must be a very good reason.
More like an advantage over Gov't computers running Windows.
AFAIK, the really, really sensitive computers are on separate networks, but one can still worry.
Although I rather doubt the computer in George W. Bush's computer doesn't have Internet access.
What's this Submit thingy do?
Hey, now that the source to China is open, maybe someone could fix the population leak?
Liberty uber alles.
> Now China gets to see the source, and we don't?
Let's hope to God they don't get to see the source to IIS, or we're all doomed.
HELLO! Inacessable Boot Device, Performing Memory Dump! Hacked By Chinese!
Well, maybe our national security being at risk will force us all to switch to Linux...
re your sig: go hang a salami, i'm a lasagna hog
I,
Know that there are export restrictions for crypto software and the like and I'm sure MS isn't sharing this type of material.
But, given the number of times MS software has been shown to be quite a good host for viruses etc. shouldn't there be someone at the Commerce Department reviewing MS's shared code policy.
Basically, I'm seeing MS sharing source code with probable enemies of the US and it makes me nervous.
What's China gonna do with this source code.
Well, they could certainly look for exploits, "No need to try to hack the darn binaries anymore, we got the source Bob."
After identifying the exploits they could EASILY turn around and use them against computers in the US.
For example, what about all those Navy ships out there that are being fitted with MS software? Do you really want the ships Phalenx (spelling?) system networked to and sharing network assets with MS OS's that could be compromised by a sneaky Chinese spy onboard with a floppy full of viruses?
What makes this even worse is that MS is handing over this material to the bad guys and I'll bet you that a majority of our military cannot get their hands on it. Nor can the majority of the FBI personel or the CIA or the NSA I would bet.
This is similar to handing over nuclear technology to the North Koreans so that they can build a power plant. See where that get us?
As much as I dislike saying it, if everybody on our side cannot see the source code, then nobody should be allowed to see it.
Caution: Contents under pressure
I'd hate to be part of the team that looks at the source code. Those people would never be able to work on open source code again without being accused of 'stealing'.
This is the perfect opportunity to demand that the US Gov't remove all MS products from their systems and switch over to open-source equivalents!
Microsoft can no longer argue that it's safe and secure, or they'd be purguring themselves!
Oh what a tanlged web we weave... eh Microsoft?
- Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
...so now evil red China will have the source code to much of the software that the US government's computers run on.
I guess that's more reason for the US government to migrate away from Microsoft.
Um.... reverse engineer?
They released the source to them.
There's no need to reverse engineer it...
Karma: Non-Heinous
<sarcasm> You'll notice that there are no brown-skinned folks on that list, so rest assured that dangerous information will not fall into the hands of terrorists. </sarcasm>
In case you didn't know, the "People's Republic of China" has an entire department(ie Air Force, Navy) dedicated to Information Warfare. Which does in fact, include computer viruses.
Ironic that this asking MS to remove barriers to see the source code is coming from a country that built the biggest wall in order to keep from sharing their own "source code" (albeit ~2200 years ago)
two far east countries essentially "force" MS to change it's policies but the U.S. can't do anything to control them? Proving once again our government if far to beholden to corporate interest.
We are the ones (our nations/businesses) who made MS a reality in the first place after dishing out billinois on their OS's. This "sharing" is a backstab, an outrage. Anyway, what is the Chinese gov't gonna do but tie it to their existing Red Flag Linux.
How long will it be before the Chinese leak the source to the net?
SIGFAULT
on how long it takes for the source to be disseminated through Kazaa?
MWAHAHAHA...all their base are belong to us!
DUH.
From an Infoworld article on the subject:
"Governments signing up to the security program will be able to build systems that offer the high levels of security required for national security, Microsoft has said. However, government users will not be allowed to make modifications to the code or compile the source code into Windows programs themselves, according to Microsoft."
Yeah, real 'open'.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
In all I have read about Microsoft's "Shared Source" programs, there doesn't seem to be *any* method of verifying that the source you are given is the same as the source given to someone else. You simply have to trust Microsoft because you aren't allowed to discuss it with anyone else, even those people who supposedly have the same access that you do. Isn't that a bit odd?
If I download some source for some Open Source package, like the Linux kernel, I can not only build it completely, but also compare what I got with whomever I wish. There are no secrets. I can have some faith that what I have is the real thing. That is simply not true with Microsoft's "Shared Source".
I just don't get why China would even bother with Microsoft. My guess is that, like most governments, money and lobbying are the only things that make sense to the politicians in control. They have no idea what the difference is between operating systems; why Linux would, of course, be a better option. They probably don't even care about the political/economic consequences of their country being dependent on an American import. I guess politics as usual has answered this question. No, it is not the year of Linux in Asia.
Oh, you mean corporate, not corporal. Would still be appropriate in this case though.
Microsoft commits treason. Full report at 11.
You fucking ninny!!!! Code Red was from China
Dumbass
It would be great^H^H^H^H^H a pity if the source got leaked onto usenet.
I seriously doubt that there should be any concern for national security based on this announcement. Microsofts shared source program is highly restrictive - not even close to open source. You only see what they want you to see. I expect Microsoft will not show China anything actually useful.
Having said that - there is a real issue in that windows obtains security through obscurity. It is absurd that windows is so pourly written - having the entire source code to an os should not threaten the security of anyone who is using it.
So we're no worse of when China or any other governements sees some ot the windows source code - but we're pretty bad off already.
I recall there was a story maybe a year ago about the chinese government and military investing heavily through their universities to develop a chinese made "clone"/reverse engeening of "Win95". Hmm..it seems this work will suddenly become much simpler for them, as well as being able to move up the food chain. Will they have a NT clone before ReactOS? :). And in a country where IP laws are what the leadership choose to decide they are in any given year, well, wouldn't it be a shame if the chinese choose one day simply not to recognize software copyrights or patents, after the fact? :)
hmm.. Microsoft and open source can never go together..
A big, fat tax break.
When can we expect to see the $5 knock-off CDs of the source hawked on Hong Kong street corners?
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Why is this article listed under the MS topic? I thought Chairman Mao owned the copyright on the "Source to China", or perhaps Karl Marx. How can Microsoft legally distribute it?
Any wonder you Microsoft apologists have the reputation of being clueless.
Creature of habit..billions is not a word I get to use often
I completely agree, I can't believe the trash that comes out of the mouths (fingertips?) of most posters I read on slashdot.
I'd bet most of you are sitting in your underwear in your mom's basement, never having made a $ in your life, *and* never having written a commercial app in your life either.
Yeah, Linux is great! MSWin Sucks! Most of you wouldn't even understand more than 0.00001 of the code in either.
I swore at Microsoft all the time. Then I stopped I knew they didn't pay attention.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
My wife was born in Taiwan so you can take the racist crap and shove it up your ass.
Plenty of viruses come for the US and China, yes. The ones coming from China are often tagged with nationalistic themes. It's those messages from Chinese hackers that initiated the "us" (USA) versus them (China) mentality.
MS has come out with a new printer and a new driver architecture in their new OS. The architecture prohibits connecting any third party printers to windows computer. Lexmark managed to hack the driver and came out with a windows printer. MS filed a lawsuit preventing Lexmark from making any windows computer. A preliminery injuction has been granted which prevents Lexmark from manufacturing and selling windows compatible printer.
Ahhh, a scholar!
But I fear most slashbots won't get the reference.
The full punishment for treason in England was:
- Disembowlment,
- burning the traitors viscera while he's still alive to watch it,
- drawing and quartering (tie each limb to a horse, and be ripped apart)
- Head displayed on a stake at London tower,
- (certain rules about burial, including, I think burial in unhallowed ground.)
- ????
- Profit
(errr... just to be clear, that was "all of the above" (neglecting the last two), not "pick one")Unfortunately, today in this country, you can get away with anything if you have enough money or the right connections.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Actually some versions of code red did have code to detect the language that a site's web pages were in and trashed the site if it wasn't in Chineese. Then a few days after this was discovered a second verison of the same worm appeared which did the opposite. Code Red hit at the time that the US spy plane was forced down in China.
There are plenty of examples of politically motivated hacking, the Palestinians and Israelis have been having an ongoing proxy war for some time. However almost all the events appear to be the work of independent agents working on their own rather than being coordinated cyber-warfare.
The only example of state sponsored cyberwarfare I am aware of is the attacks on Usenet by Hasan B-) Mutlu and Serdar Argic who roboposted thousands of anti-armenian propaganda messages. Mutlu and Argic were both pseudonyms used by an officer of thr turkish intelligence service which was concerned that reports on the Turkish massacre of Armenians during world war I were circulating on Usenet and damaging the image of Turkey abroad at a time when the post USSR CIS was fragmenting into racial warfare. So they roboposted claims of a bogus masacre of turks by armenians repeatedly in order to drown out and discredit the genuine claims that the turks massacred the armenians.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I remember this form somewhere. Where china has a 100 plan for the fall of the us (or us goverment collapses) where they just sit back, kick up their feet, and laugh. As we contuine to tear ourself apart for the inside.
so you can see the source. big deal. when i can compile my own windows, then big deal
You have a "for sure" evil and a "maybe it could be" evil, and you choose the for sure one? Ok, if Chinese Government make people to depend on them, suffer of their bad choices, put high obligatory taxes for low level services, arbitrary sue people, and try monopolize all services, well, yes, it will be very evil. Fortunatelly no US company does/did that ever.
thousands of chineese software developers commited a mass suicide after been exposed to the millions of lines of Windows source code. Apparently nobody warned them about the dangers of staring in the soul of the devil.
You can't handle the truth.
Name five?
:-), neither do I. I kinda like it that way, I prefer not to have MS lawyers do cavity searches looking for their source.
If they had, then there would be copies of the Windows source floating around for a while now. Also, we would have heard some major eruptions from the Dept of Homeland Security.
Sorry, but Universities do have access to the source. I have a friend who worked on a project that was granted access. You have to apply to MS, they have to like the project, you sign NDAs and agree to keep lab locked, CDs secured, etc. MS gets the right to incorporate your research, you are allowed to publish, move to a different University and take the license with you. It's real. The source probably is out there somewhere, you just don't run in l33t enough circles
This is very interesting buddies, Who guess the real interest of Uncle Bill for open your source for the government of china??? Afraid of the imminent growth of linux??Or this action are a belligerent interest for them(Linux comunity)Stay in a big panic???Whats happen after this fact??best regards. Blueice88
...is just impolite, national security or not. Next thing you know, he's going to start cursing in front of the Chinese and he'll go to h-e-doublehockeysticks.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
The first organization to purchase the government-aimed package of M$ sourcecode was the electronic warfare division of FSB (former KGB) of Russia. Go figure...
Hu Jintao: "Very interesting, but I see in the code references to things not present in the source."
Bill: "Oh, that's where we are inserting new Trustworthy Computing initiatives."
Hu: "Really, and what does this connect_redmondwa() do?"
Bill: "That's for reporting any bugs which we didn't catch."
Hu: "and this part? send_all_user_info() , is that reporting the bug information?"
Bill: "uh.. yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it's doing."
Hu: "and this scan_personal_records() must be confirming notification, yes?"
Bill: "..ahem.. uh.. yes!"
Hu: "then we are most assured of Trustworthy Computing by carbon_copy_cia_gov() , correct?"
Bill: "yesyesabsolutelypleasedon'tkillme.ibegyoupleasedo n'tkillme..."
Hu: "We would not think to kill you, however we will continue with Peoples Great Open Source Initiative, for all 1.3 billion chinese."
Bill: "ok, you can kill me."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The post does not whine about opening up the source to China it simply points out that Allchin clearly lied under oath - yet another indication of the character of Microsoft's executive management.
I want to be alone with the sandwich
How about open source to the rest of the world! Linux4ever www.linux.org
Also, I overlooked the first step, which was to be hung by the neck with a rope until half dead, then taken down and the other steps followed.
Those English didn't mollycoddle people who betrayed their country.
"A CD"? NT4 source was delivered to NDA'd Universities on five CDs IIRC.
I tried to write something that was quick to read, but to the point. Who knows, maybe someone will notice. I'm not holding my breath, though.
=====
Despite the fact that Microsoft's software is widely known to contain many security vulnerabilities, the U.S. government and military heavily rely on Microsoft's Windows operating system to peform vital government functions.
It is relatively easy to find security vulnerabilities in software when you have access to the source code of that software (source code is what defines software; people read and write source code).
In light of this fact, Microsoft has claimed that sharing information about its software with competitors could damage national security.
More important than any competitor to Microsoft, China now has the source code to Microsoft's Windows operating system.
Shouldn't the U.S. government move in the direction of open software that is not ultimately controlled by any one entity? As a concerned and informed citizen, I would wholeheartedly suggest Senator Warner support open source software and vote against bills like the DMCA that stifle the progress of open source software.
MSDN has a program whereby if you pay them enough or are important enough, you get access to the Windows source via Visual Studio. They don't just ship it to you on a disk or anything, but if you step through the debugger when making Windows API calls, you can actually step back through the Windows source, which is retrieved as-needed from a central server at MS.
Apparently if you write some script to just get it all, they catch that and lock you out. And I imagine you don't get access to *everything*, but still, it's not like people don't have it. I don't think this program is mentioned anywhere on the MSDN site, but I imagine if you call your sales rep there they'll hook you up.
..it's only a matter of time until a copy appears on kazaa.
I understand that China is not allowed to compile the program. That being the case how can they be sure that they have the complete source.
The only way that I can see a government feeling warm and fuzzy about this would be if they were allowed to examine all 500 million lines of code and to compile it themselves and distribute that.
Even doing this they will have to do the same thing to every update and every proprietary piece of software that they run on government computers.
I think that Linux is still the way to go for China.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Having read the article thoroughly, this startling news shows the flaws in the brewing Open Source Zeitgeist that is gripping the software community. Have you considered that providing software for free to countries such as China is essentially tacit support for oppressive regimes?
Far-fetched? Think about it: With MySQL, the People's Army will now be able to do multiple queries on their tables of democratic activists in Olog(n) time instead of lengthy searches in card catalogs. The bureaucratic overhead previously allowed activists enough time to flee the country. How about building cheap firewalls so the people can't get the unbiased reporting that CNN provides? Or using Apache to publish lists of Falun Gong people to their police forces instantly? I doubt that never crossed your minds when you were coding away in your parents' basements. Consider putting that little thought in your mental resolv.conf file.
If that does not concern you ( which it probably doesn't, since the slashdot.org paradigm is publishing articles about how not to pay for things ), consider something else. When China eventually goes to war with Taiwan, we want to be able turn their command and control facilities into the computing equivalent of a train-wreck. One of the advantages of Windows never mentioned in the article is the ability of Microsoft to remotely deactivate Windows XP in the case of a national emergency. Thanks to GNU/Lunix, Taiwan will be on a collision course with the mainland in the near future.
Which throws into question Mr. Stallman's motives. A known proponent of socialism, the Chinese government and RMS are natural allies. Could it be a back door to Stallman's dream of an über-Socialist United States? We may never know for sure. Next time you consider contributing to an open source project, ask yourself this question: don't you want to make sure your work isn't used for nefarious purposes? Will you risk having blood on your hands?
You see, being exposed to Windows source code gives programmers a killer headache, and after having seen it, they'll never be able to write a secure piece of code themselves.
I wonder what the reaction will be from that part of the community that just couldn't let that "Red Hat removes Taiwaneese flag" incident go. China is a hot topic in many circles, and rightfully so.
I'd say lets start a Class Action Lawsuit against Microsoft, claiming damage to national public safety due to Chineese government (and by there own definition, isn't everyone "in the Chineese government" over there?) inspection of code to witch we, as Americans, have no right. Whatdya say guys? Who wants a million dollars?
put the what in the where?
the US spy plane was forced down in China
It was a surveillance plane, NOT a spy plane. Spying implies something covert. The EP-3 shows up on even third-world radar systems as a blip the size of a barn, hence it can not conduct 'spy' missions, only surveillance.
Contrary to your assertion, many people outside of MS do have access to MS source. "Open Source" is not the only way to see source. China will probably sign an NDA just like the US corporations and universities do, and presumably the US government. Hell China might even abide by the NDA, why would they want to let their civilians to have access to the source. They are bigger control freaks than MS.
Now, with the source code available, the Chinese pirates can make accurate piracies and M$'s image won't suffer...
If, theoretically, the USG saw all the source code, couldn't citizens then solicit that same information (the source code) under the Freedom of Information Act?
I mean-- it comes down to the core issue of privacy-- the gov't would have to prove that it has no unfair advantage that could impede my 4th Amendment rights vis a vis the M$ software.
Or-- it could prove to be collusion between a private entity and the state, also illegal in the US, and I would think most of Europe...
davejenkins.com |
so if Jim Allchin perjured himself, is that grounds for declaring a mistrial on that whole anti-trust trial?
--Rob
If the Chinese government is concerned about security how is allowing only the government to view the source going to help. I thought one of the big advantages of real Open Source was the hundreds and possibly thousands of little minions all trying to make things break and find weaknesses from around the world. I don't see how what MS is doing is going to help out at all.
Be a PATRIOT! Help fight the war on terrorism by reporting Microsoft to the Department of Homeland Security. Microsoft is undermining out national security.
In WindowsXP.java:
l et ubbies");
UIManager.setLookAndFeel("uk.co.bbc.children.Te
Mr. Burns: OK. Now give it back...
Castro: Give what back?
Whether you can audit the code for security holes is useless. What matters is being able to DO something about it when you find a problem. Microsoft's Shared Source programs don't allow you to do that, and I think that's just silly.
Basically, this program is giving an advantage to those with nefarious purposes -- they can find faults and exploit them. Those who simply want secure systems can't fix the faults that they find. So what good does it do for anyone?
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
This isn't quite right. Trade secrets are just that - secrets. They are secrets that the company elects to protect by not publishing. However, if those secrets are discovered by someone else, or somehow otherwise made public, you have just lost any rights you may have had. The alternative is to patent them, in which case you gain limited protection (time frame, licensing fees, ect) but have just told the entire world how to do it, step by step. And not every country recognizes the same patent law. There have been recent medical cases where S American countries have broken pharma patents to provide cheap, effective medicine to it's people.
Wouldn't some US based corporations opt to go with a different operating system for their internal affairs? I know that I wouldn't like keeping a Win2k server, which has weekly security patches coming out (after people without access to the code discovered holes in the system), when others can devise unexpected attacks on my systems? Uh uh, no thanks.
One of China's concerns was backdoors put into the software. How do they know that the source they get is the source used to compile their OS? Are they going to "roll their own" Windows OS?
Trolling is a art,
But that doesn't threaten national security. That the Chinese have the source and we don't won't drive the US to a communist hell. It will merely put american businesses at a disadvantage. -Dae
"Alle reden vom wetter. Wir nicht." - SDS Sozialistischer Deutscher Studentenbund.
j00 4r3 3n73r1ng l337 w0r1d.
The concept of "intellectual property" itself is wrong. Yes, ethically, stealing anything (even intellectual property no matter how flawed that concept is) is wrong. But the idea that one person or entity is entitled to own a concept is completely evil. If someone comes up with an idea, it should be shared with anyone who can benefit. Profit is not what's important in the long, but the betterment of human society and the evolution of man to the next phase.
If this affects US security, can John Ashcroft detain Bill Gates? Please? Does someone at the DOJ need their palm greased? I can pay many pennies!
Penguins are so sensitive to my needs - Lyle Lovett
So, Microsoft is freely letting China view the source code, but they fought and vehemently insisted that they could not let our own government view the source code? Yeah, seems like they're real interested in American security.
barzelay.net
I might be naive, but a person with enough skill to read and understand the code has to be fairly experienced programmer. If that assumption is correct (which it may not), it would lead to governments demanding better security. On the opposite side, if the auditing programmer is an experienced Unix programmer, it could drive customers off windows. People will flame for it, but lets take a hypothetical situation.
Programmer Bob is an experienced unix programmer hired to audit windows source for France. Bob reads the code and discovers huge security problems that are architectural, which touch thousands of classes and sub systems. Bob makes his report to his boss, describing in great detail how much work it might take to fix the problem. For argument sake, lets say he thinks it will take 2 years. The boss has a few options: demand microsoft fix it in 6 months with the threat of moving off windows, abandon windows for all critical systems, keep windows praying it doesn't bite in the butt.
Now if I was the boss, I would probably choose option #2, switch critical systems and then design a plan to migrate all other systems off windows. How likely is this hypothetical scenario?
Since a lot of US government computers are using Windows security. What happens when US based Microsoft is sharing "security secrets" with other governments? The US government will say Microsoft can't share the source with anyone other than the US government and China will be right back to using Linux again.
http://www.askthevoid.com
If, according to Allchin:
"It is no exaggeration to say that the national security is also implicated by the efforts of hackers to break into computing networks," Allchin testified. "Computers, including many running Windows operating systems, are used throughout the United States Department of Defense and by the armed forces of the United States in Afghanistan and elsewhere."
Then why isn't the military running NSA Linux? Because they don't like OpenOffice? Because they can't see Sorenson video in Quicktime? Because Opera borks their MSN page?
Well, let's see... Microsoft believes that releasing the source would compromise national security... and yet they release it to one of the U.S.'s biggest enemies...
That, to me, smacks of treason.
I think that Microsoft should be immediately slapped with the Corporate Death Penalty.
1.) An immediate freeze is placed on Microsoft's assets. This also goes for any subsidiaries and affiliates owned in part or in whole by Microsoft.
2.) All intellectual property, trade secrets, et al (i.e., intangible assets) of Microsoft is immediately declared to be in the public domain. Their source code, et al, is to be immediately posted on their website.
3.) All liquid assets of Microsoft are immediately forfeited to be disbursed evenly among all U.S. citizens (natural persons only). All non-liquid tangible assets are immediately sold at auction. Shareholders and creditors don't get a sniff - that's what you get for supporting a treasonous party.
4.) Any current executive officer of Microsoft is forever barred from holding public office or holding an executive seat on another corporation and is to generally be treated as an enemy of the state. Any former executive officers who were privy to the decision (as shown by e-mail memos, etc.) are also so treated.
I think if we saw a few corporate death penalties like this, suddenly corporations would be a LOT more careful about what their lie^H^H^Hmarketing strategies.
--A. Coward
I'm thinking that this program, like most other things related to Microsoft, has some hidden implimentations.
Think about it - Remember when MS got hacked, and they admitted that the hackers stole Windows source code? This program could be a coverup to *WHEN* source code gets leaked on the net. "Oh, Russia/China leaked our code!! War!!" instead of "Oh man, that source code has been leaked from when WE got hacked, and it's OUR fault! We can't do anything about it!!"
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
MSN is reporting a story on Opra attaining billionaire status, but I thought one side note was hillarious:
"Gates' personal wealth, much of it in company stock, has diminished by 60 percent since April 1998, when it briefly reached $100 billion. His worst year was 1999, when it plunged by a third as the government pursued an antitrust case against Microsoft. Forbes notes he is also the world's biggest giver, donating $1 billion annually to charity, largely to vaccine research."
With all the bugs and viruses his software is subject to, I was hoping he was putting more than that into vaccine research!
Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
Just curious...how can they prevent the Chinese from building the binary? Are they leaving bits of code out to prevent it from compiling? Does it require a compiler other than Visual Studios?
:-)
:-) for some patent violation?
If this is basically the shared source that MS currently provides in the US, isn't it possible for any US citizen and/or the government to get the source in the same manner?
I wonder if the Chinese will follow the user agreement
Isn't this likely really just internationalizing the Shared Source initiative?
Does this mean anyone looking at the source code cannot in good concious work on Linux?
Or will they intentionally put MS proprietary functionality to be included into Linux and then MS will have a legal leg to pursue the linux world (yes the conspiracy theorist in me comes out
Does this mean that for them to develop on it they will have to have a MS Platform to develope on which requires a MS purchase?
Eric B
ebresie@gmail.com
This has nothing to do with security and everthing to do with Microsoft maintaining market share by preventing the Chinese government from moving to Linux.
Maybe one of the Linux big-wigs (Torsvald et al) should contact the Chinese government and say "Here, use Linux. We give you the source code AND you can compile it into binaries!".
They said fine, but parlaimentary officials said they would like to bring some expertise with them as they didn't know much about internals of an operating system, they would like to bing some experts. These would be from the BSI (sort of like NIST) and some invited consultants from the Chaos Computer Club. MS objected to the latter so the Germans pulled out. This is why the servers at the Bundesrat (German Parliament) will not be running Windows.
See my journal, I write things there
DVD-CSS aside, that's not how it's supposed to work. In theory the difference between trade secret and patent is that with a patent, the Government enforces your exclusive right to use the development in return for you telling everyone how it's done. With trade secret, you take the chance of independent discovery. So if an organization chooses to hide a development as a trade secret and the secret gets out, they've got no recourse other than to recover damages for breach of confidentiality. (That only works with those who have a duty of confidentiality in the first place, of course.) The genie doesn't go back in the bottle.
Of course, that's theory.
Still, MS would have a decidedly difficult time going after Tridge for "trade secret violation" based on a speculation that he found out about some SMB operation from leaked Chinese source.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I agree that patenting "concepts" is generally a bad thing, but there's a big difference between "intellectual property" and "concept". As an example, If I write a book, about concept X, the contents of that book are my intellectual property, and copying or distributing it without my permission is wrong (except for fair use). However, nothing is stopping anyone else from writing a different book about the same concept.
If I choose to share some software I wrote, and open source it, that is my decision, but if I don't, that code represents my hard work, and I deserve to reap the benefits.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
You forgot about the countless attempts by both the Russian and Israeli Intelligence services to bring down kavkaz.org the Chechen news/propaganda service. Russian has openly admitted to knocking out the site following the the Moscow theatre seige and most of the recent Denial of Service attacks have reportedly originated from Israeli addresses. This plus the fact that Israel and Russia co designed the Ka-52 helicopter means that Israel and Russia have forgotten their decades of bitterness in the face of Islamic militancy. A sign that the world order really has changed. I bring this up soley because after serving a year in Chechnya I can truly say that you Americans dont know how desperate and how bitterly these people can fight if pushed. Our government thought any war in Chechnya would last a matter of weeks and a decade later they still say peace is just around the corner. Thats why any war in Iraq is a risky business and our army while not up to your standards is not as pathetic as the western media makes out. At the height of the war we were flying 200 sorties an hour (1700 detination per hour total) against the Chechens. Given even a 10% accuracy rate for our bombs (it was more like 60-75%) we should have completely destroyed Chechen resistance if they werent so determined to fight to the death no matter what. They would place women and children in the first wave of any attack or to cover flanking maneuvers knowing we would hesitate to shoot. How do you defeat such an enemy? Unless you forget that it is women and children you are shooting. Today there are no front line Chechen position and they fight only a terrorist war making it even harder. Before the enemy was in front of you now you dont who it is. Im glad I left.
Microsoft was found guilty. It's the remedy phase that was the joke. Judge Coleen whatever her name was really had the wool pulled over her eyes by Microsoft. I bet Judge Thomas Jackson is laughing. He should call Bush and say I told ya so.
MS offered a similar deal to the Japanese government for their upcoming "e-japan" project.
Microsoft would give the Japanese government access to all the Windows source code if they signed an non-disclosure agreement and chose Windows over Linux.
Japan chose Linux.
If this isn't all a well thought out plan by Microsoft to poison the open source movement by contamination. You know the source is going to be leaked eventually, Then how do you defend against an IP claim if your code happens to be similiar to MS's on some project. How do you prove you never saw the code someplace on the net.
All MS need to do is take out the us govt. approved spy code for the examination. The Chinese won't be compiling and shipping their own versions of windows will they? Or is MS now employing Stallman/
Windows with improved support for USB (Ultra Straggly Beard)
Hands up everyone who refuses to obey orders.
So they shot down the barn-sized camera hovering over their country?
YOUR FACTS ARE INCOORECT!
...maybe Bill G is hoping that having Windows and Linux both "open" in the same chaotic marketplace (Asia) will quickly lead to enough "contamination" in Linux distros to "open" the door to generalized lawsuits.
We all know that there is really nothing new in code. Part of what makes an open application clean in the sense of free from copyright issues is not the absence of certain ideas or particular implementations of them, but the absence of a means for those ideas to have been lifted entirely from proprietary versions of the same ideas. Microsoft has always protected their code and this is actually a Good Thing for "clean room" OOS developers coming up with the same solutions as M$ codemonkeys.
Now, if Microsoft could point to Asia and say "our crown jewels made their way into Linux because of our ill-advised opening of Windows in Asia wink wink" do you think a sympathetic judge somewhere might be bri...er...convinced to slap an injunction on the further distribution of OOS software developed after the date of Windows source release to China? And even if they (M$ and the Chinese) aren't actually thinking along those lines right now, do you think they (M$) will hesitate a New York minute to take such action if the opportunity presents itself?
So you see my Prince, perhaps the binaries are not the issue. We all know what the issue is for M$, don't we.
Signed,
Nicolo Machiaveli
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=2938&ent ry=1
Seems this story is going around rather quickly. I saw some interesting comments posted above and thought I might share.
I would love to see the code, just to see how many glaringly awful programming errors there are and find out where this is in the code: do x=rand(500) if x mod 3 = 0 then computer.bluescreen while 1 !=2
-- Insert wisdom here:
Now they are going to blame it on Linux that forced microsoft to Open source windows
1) Too many US government agencies use Windows. Opening the source code would allow hackers to find and exploit even MORE Microsoft bugs, and far more easily. Numerous government, as well as civilian, installations will get hacked big-time. Since Microsoft would never listen to anyone who noticed a bug while looking through source, this isn't an opportunity for improvement.
2) Windows includes a number of encryption algorithms whose ability to be secure may benefit from being closed source. It's harder to crack encryption if you know neither the key nor the algorithm. This is the sort of thing that M$ could omit from their shared source, however.
Not EVERYTHING that Microsoft DOES is bad but that doesn't stop you guys from coming up with something negative to say about them.
Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security. That is just US govt. Showing it to China could not hurt our security.
It would be nice to have the person holding the gun to your head forcing you to read slashdot let up a bit.
Don't like the articles? Don't read them.
Don't like the opinions? Don't read them.
For this to be of any use, they'd need to open all of the Windows source to China's government. Who knows what they might be hiding inthe bits they've not opened.
Follow me
You take your euphemisms way too seriously.
Are you a Bush speechwriter?
I personally think this is hilarious. I spit coffee all over when I read it on news.com this morning It's hard to ask to be taken seriously when your proprietary flagship software product is so shoddy and untrustworthy that you have to share the source to get foreign countries to trust it (and compete with other open source projects).
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
All I want is for slashdot to be more objective. That was my purpose for writing that.
Slashdot is one of the best places to get technology news but I can't stand it when they have to bash everything corporate.
I can't believe that Gates is SO desperate to stop Linux that he's going to give away the source code to China. They have NO respect for intellectual property rights there. Not only will the government steal it, but the source will be freely sold on the streets. This COULD be the downfall of MS we've all wanted!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Here's what M$ probably did:
cat | egrep -v '(NSA_Backdoor|MS_Backdoor)" >
Does M$ think we are idiots? Aparantly. If it doesn't compile to the same **EXACT** binary, then I wouldn't trust it. Oh well, if M$ can fool 'em into accepting this lame "viewing", then why not??
Why would a company or country want the code if they cannot modify it or improve it? If they are looking for bugs, they will not be able to fix them.
China is not at the moment a declared enemy of the US, a requirement for a treason conviction. Indeed, China has most-favored-nation trading status and normalized relations, which I am pretty sure would be mutually incompatible with enemy state status. Remember, they didn't feel they could get a treason conviction for John Walker Lindh. Worst they could get would be an ITAR violation, I suspect (IANAL).
The interesting point to me: what makes Redmond think that the Chinese government isn't going to just mine the code to create their own OS? Chinese copyright law is not as, well, forceful as US law; and we know that China has been considering creating home-grown computers, apps, and operating systems. What could they do (MS) if a Chinese corporation suddenly came out with a Windows clone that claimed to be based upon Wine but was really based upon the original Windows code? I can imagine a gray market Red Windows cropping up around 2006 to take MS's Asian market away from them.
That's a problem with closed source: the minute you open the door a crack, you're forced to rely upon law enforcement to give you any kind of IP protection - so then you're basically in the same IP position as open source, but without the moral high ground.
Here's what M$ probably did:
cat [windows_source_code] | egrep -v '(NSA_Backdoor|MS_Backdoor)" > [source_code_for_china]
Does M$ think we are idiots? Aparantly. If it doesn't compile to the same **EXACT** binary, then I wouldn't trust it. Oh well, if M$ can fool 'em into accepting this lame "viewing", then why not??
Microsoft pulls a fast one on China.
Overheard in the Chinese consulate earlier this morning...
"Hmm.. Ok, install the source code from cd. ActiveX.cp, KernelDLL source.. Hey, wait a minute! I recognize this source code! This isn't the Windows source, it's Linux!"
But seriously, what's to prevent someone from taking the Windows source code and porting it to their own Linux distro? I think Microsoft just put another nail in their grave.
Who moved my sig?
"Microsoft enables chinese government to further restrict it's citizens in their abilities to compute or communicate with the free world."
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
But will they be allowed to make changes and recompile their own patched or enhanced versions?
If not, then Microsoft has completely missed the point of what Open Source software is all about. It's not just about allaying fears about that is in your code. It is the freedom to(pretty much) do what ever the hell you want to with it!
"People should be allowed to keep midgets as pets."
- Gov. Jesse Ventura
And the US doesn't?
Fair point, but at the time I posted there were only a whole load of anti-Chinese posts and there was a clear racist tendancy that made me angry.
less than a year ago, Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
And aparrently, not disclosing the Windows source hurts M$'s bottom line. Guess we all know now where their priorities are (not that this surprises anyone). Wonder if we should start organizing anti-MS protests among vehement pro-American groups?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
While I can see how this will help China discover unintentional backdoors, this won't help them against intentional backdoors.
There was an old hack which Ken Thompson used to give himself access to all Unix systems, as a proof-of-concept of why you shouldn't trust source code. He didn't modify the Unix source code. Nor did he modify the C compiler used to generate the Unix binaries. He modified the C compiler used to compile the C compiler. Full source code access wouldn't help you see the exploit.
Details are atn ed /thompson.html.
http://www.wbglinks.net/pages/reads/hacksexplai
China doesn't have the rights to compile the source code they get. Even if they do (and I'm sure they will, if it's of any use to them) they won't be able to verify that the code is free of intentional backdoors-- because presumably it requires M$'s compiler. Even if they get access to the compiler source code (and I don't think they do) they can't verify that it doesn't have a back door.
If I were China I'd be afraid that the US government has hidden an exploit in Windows. That may seem paranoid, but security folks are supposed to be a little paranoid. I wouldn't trust Windows, source code or not.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't trust the American-designed processor, BIOS, disk controllers, RAM, keyboard controller, chip design tools, etc.
Clearly your nickname shows you to be this:
Fat, unemployed or lowly in compensation, sexless unable to complete either your hetero or homosexual desires, fat, corpulent, living in your parent's basement, and you think LOTR, Star Wars and Stark Trek are not only real, but a model to live by. Look at yourself. "Lord Darkstorm". I'd probably dervie too much pleasure beating you down with a bullwhip. You are a tool. It is not likely that I shall say anything new here. If I do, it will be of only minor significance. Nevertheless, this is nothing new. What follows is a set of observations I have made about disagreeable individuals. Some will say I exaggerate, but, actually, I'm being quite lenient. I didn't mention, for example, that if you've never seen Lord Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole Dumb Motherfucker Stubid Ass Philandering Kiddie Diddler I create a regime of haughty expansionism, you're either incredibly unobservant or are concealing the truth from yourself.
I will not say what is right and what is wrong when it comes to his writings. But I will say one thing: One of his henchmen once said, "We're supposed to shut up and smile when Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole says naive things." Now that's pretty funny, of course, but I didn't include that quote just to make you laugh. I included it to convince you that Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole can fool some of the people all of the time. He can fool all of the people some of the time. But he can't fool all of the people all of the time. His method (or school, or ideology -- it is hard to know exactly what to call it) goes by the name of "Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole-ism". It is a garrulous and avowedly imprudent philosophy that aims to ignite a maelstrom of cameralism. His commitment to blackguardism is only part of the story. That being the case, we can infer that that fact is simply inescapable to any thinking man or woman. "Thinking" is the key word in the previous sentence.
Now, lest you jump to the conclusion that Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole would sooner give up money, fame, power, and happiness than perform a petty act, I assure you that if you don't think that I, for one, find his fondness for inquisitions, witch hunts, star chambers, and kangaroo courts most incompetent, then you've missed the whole point of this letter. It would be wrong to imply that he is involved in some kind of conspiracy to create a kind of psychic pain at the very root of the modern mind. It would be wrong because his positions are far beyond the conspiracy stage. Not only that, but if we can understand what has caused the current plague of incomprehensible smut peddlers, I believe that we can then act honorably. Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole is extraordinarily brazen. We've all known that for a long time. However, his willingness to pit the haves against the have-nots sets a new world record for brazenness.
Even so, he should work with us, not step in at the eleventh hour and hog all the glory. When I say that Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's treatment of separatism mirrors the attitude that many brainless energumens hold towards negativism, I consider this to mean that this is a free country, and I feel we ought to keep it that way.
Although Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole has unfairly depicted me and those who share my beliefs as ratbags and degenerates, we are neither. Yes, given the public appetite for more accountability, he bites the hand that feeds him, but I want to give people more information about Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole, help them digest and assimilate and understand that information, and help them draw responsible conclusions from it. Here's one conclusion I indubitably hope people draw: Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole claims that authoritarianism can quell the hatred and disorder in our society. Well, I beg to differ. His intimations are destructive. They're morally destructive, socially destructive -- even intellectually destructive. And, as if that weren't enough, if I may be so bold, he holds onto power like the eunuch mandarins of the Forbidden City -- sterile obstacles to progress who direct social activity toward philanthropic flim-flam rather than toward the elimination of the basic deficiencies in the organization of our economic and cultural life. While we all despair over Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's belligerent cajoleries, we must also remember the principles that will guide our better behaviors and higher aspirations. I don't just suspect that Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole contributes nothing to society; I can back that up with facts. For instance, Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's ideas have kept us separated for too long from the love, contributions, and challenges of our brothers and sisters in this wonderful adventure we share together -- life!
It must be pointed out that he works from the false assumption that most people actually want foul anarchists to court a huffy minority of mendacious bullies. Not that I've come to expect any better from him. At any rate, the next time he decides to rip apart causes that others feel strongly about, he should think to himself, cui bono? -- who benefits?
Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that he fears, because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility. Is it any wonder that it is of paramount importance not to let his vassals spawn delusions of scapegoatism's resplendence? I have this advice to offer: The world has changed, Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole; get used to it.
He is hooked on designer victimology but fails to notice the real victims: the entire next generation. It may seem to many people, maybe even the majority, that he offers his spokesmen a vehicle of sorts for their revenge fantasies. Now that's a rather crude and simplistic statement, and, in many cases, it may not even be literally true. But there is a sense in which it is generally true, a sense in which it unmistakably expresses how I appreciate feedback and other people's views on subjects. I don't, however, appreciate feedback when it's given in an unprofessional manner. Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole claims that public opinion is a reliable indicator of what's true and what isn't. I respond that his apparatchiks are merely liars with charisma.
His cat's-paws perpetrate all kinds of atrocities while alleging that they are simply not capable of such activities and that therefore, the atrocities must be the product of my and your feverish and overworked imaginations. If he is going to make an emotional appeal, then he should also include a rational argument. If we don't soon tell Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole to stop what he's doing, he will proceed with his impudent, bookish op-ed pieces, considerably emboldened by our lack of resistance. We will have tacitly given Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole our permission to do so.
Nonetheless, I once managed to get him to agree that his success is just a flash in the pan. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, he did a volte-face and denied that he had ever said that. Maybe you, too, want to reap a harvest of death, so let me warn you: Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole is always prating about how we can all live together happily without laws, like the members of some 1960s-style dope-smoking commune. (He used to say that women are crazed Pavlovian sex-dogs who will salivate at any object even remotely phallic in shape, but the evidence is too contrary, so he's given up on that score.) His arguments are so choleric that if allowed to go unanswered, their final cost would be incalculable. You might say, "My personal safety depends upon your starting to provide an atmosphere of mutual respect, free from sectarianism, hedonism, and all other forms of prejudice and intolerance, just as your personal safety depends upon my doing the same." Fine, I agree. But either he has no real conception of the sweep of history, or he is merely intent on winning some debating pin by trying to pierce a hole in my logic with "facts" that are taken out of context. To summarize my views: Lord Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole Dumb Motherfucker Stubid Ass Philandering Kiddie Diddler I is chomping at the bit for a chance to censor any incomplicitous hastily mounted campaigns.
The purpose of this letter is to outline a plan to place blame where it belongs -- in the hands of Lord Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole Dumb Motherfucker Stubid Ass Philandering Kiddie Diddler I and his delirious satraps. I assume you already know that faster than you can say "antitintinnabularian", Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole will indulge in a vast orgy of murder to sate his innate blood-lust and his hatred of his betters, but I have something more important to tell you. As someone who is working hard to solve the problems that are important to most people, I must point out that he has found a way to avoid compliance with government regulations, circumvent any further litigation, and repeat the mistakes of the past -- all by trumping up a phony emergency. You know, it strikes me that if he thinks his sophistries represent progress, Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole should rethink his definition of progress.
He believes that he defends the real needs of the working class. The real damage that this belief causes actually has nothing to do with the belief itself, but with psychology, human nature, and the skillful psychological manipulation of that nature by Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole and his blockish lieutenants. In order to understand the motivation behind his threats, it is important first to give our young people the values that will inspire them to build bridges where in the past all that existed were moats and drawbridges. He is not a responsible citizen. Responsible citizens provide some balance to Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's one-sided zingers. Responsible citizens certainly do not emphasize the negative in our lives instead of accentuating the positive. And what of it? Inasmuch as I disagree with Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's accusations and find his ad hominem attacks offensive, I am happy to meet Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's speech with more speech and, if necessary, continue this discussion until the truth shines.
Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole maintains that his dissertations can give us deeper insights into the nature of reality. Even if this were so, Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole would still be muddleheaded. But Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole pompously claims that it is repressive to question his wisecracks. That sort of nonsense impresses many people, unfortunately. It is disgraceful that, with a wink and a smile, he has signified his approval of besotted misers who ruin my entire day.
We will have to become much more vigilant to ensure that he doesn't insult the intelligence, interests, and life plans of whole groups of people. It is easier for me to imagine a million-dimensional vector space than the number of inconsistencies in Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's tactics, by which I mean that I try never to argue with Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole, because it's clear he's not susceptible to reason.
To Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's mind, human life is expendable. So that means that the health effects of secondhand smoke are negligible, right? No, not right. The truth is that there is a format Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole should follow for his next literary endeavor. It involves a topic sentence and supporting facts. It's good that you're reading this letter. It's good that you're listening to what I'm saying. But reading and listening aren't enough. You must also be willing to help me get him off our back.
My message is clear: There is still hope for our society, real hope -- not the false sense of hope that comes from the mouths of scummy cowards, but the hope that makes you eager to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole is typical of wishy-washy, bumptious slumlords in his wild invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to dramatize his artifices.
He treats people as objects. That's self-evident, and even Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole would probably agree with me on that. Even so, of all of his exaggerations and incorrect comparisons, one in particular stands out: "Children should get into cars with strangers who wave lots of yummy candy at them." I don't know where he came up with this, but his statement is dead wrong. Common sense and scientific evidence agree: He asserts that the best way to reduce cognitive dissonance and restore homeostasis to one's psyche is to blame those who have no power to change the current direction of events. That assertion is not only untrue, but a conscious lie. I feel this way because we can never return to the past. And if we are ever to move forward to the future, we definitely have to keep our priorities in check.
Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole coins polysyllabic neologisms to make his ideals sound like they're actually important. In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim with words that have yet to appear in any accepted dictionary. His insults are based on two fundamental errors. They assume that the cure for evil is more evil. And they promote the mistaken idea that the Queen of England heads up the international drug cartel.
How can we expect to set the record straight if we walk right into Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's trap? We can't, and that's why he uses the very intellectual tools he criticizes, namely consequentialist arguments rather than arguments about truth or falsity. People tell me that Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole's sound bites are a parody of original thought. And the people who tell me this are correct, of course.
For the purpose of this discussion, let's say that it is immature and stupid of Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole to create massive civil unrest. It would be mature and intelligent, however, to plant markers that define the limits of what is rabid and what is not, and that's why I say that we mustn't let him work hand-in-glove with beer-guzzling drug lords. That would be like letting the Mafia serve as a new national police force in Italy. Why does despotism exist? What causes it? And how can he be so infantile? To understand the answers to those questions, you first have to realize that it is more than a purely historical question to ask, "How did his reign of terror start?" or even the more urgent question, "How might it end?". No, we must ask, "Where is his integrity?" This isn't such an easy question to answer, but let me take a stab at it: He intends to create a new social class. Annoying stupid-types, naive freaks, and bloodthirsty mendicants will be given aristocratic status. The rest of us will be forced into serving as their bootlickers. While the concept of broad-based peace and social justice coalitions remains desirable, Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole has recently been going around claiming that he should dismantle the family unit because "it's the right thing to do". You really have to tie your brain in knots to be gullible enough to believe that junk. That's our situation today, in very rough outline. Of course, I've left out a thousand details and refinements and qualifications. I've not mentioned that time has only reinforced that conviction. And I've ignored escapism altogether. I've simply pointed out one key fact: It is incumbent upon all of us to confront Lord Darkstorm the Fat Sexless Pedophillic Rapist Pervert Asshole Dumb Motherfucker Stubid Ass Philandering Kiddie Diddler I's hatchet jobs head-on.
since they gave it to the wrong people. Whats Microsoft going to do, sue them, yeah like they will win. If G Bush wants to defuse N. Korea then China will win.
So there releasing the window's source to China, a place nutorious for widescale pirating of information and trampling upon intelectual proporty 'rights'?
How long before you can download a >1.5 gig zip file on kazza called 'chinese-windows-source'.
And then how long before someone in a country with very loose IP laws (china again? India?) releases 'Windows emulator for Linux' that allows 'full use of windows programs in Linux' (Note that the wine people are allready doing this, but it's not an emulator)
So while I think it's an awful contradiction that on one hand allchin said 'releasing the source would be a threat to national security', and then they released the soruce. I think that this will ultimatly do more dammage to windows then good- so let them shoot themselves in the foot, and then laugh.
True.
Also true, but to fully complete your analogy and make it applicable, how would you feel about someone reverse-engineering your closed-source app and releasing their own open-source version? Applying the views you expressed about book authors writing about concepts, I would tend to think that you would have no problem with this practice. Right?
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
wonder how long it will be before they find that "scam" going on between intel, the memory manufacturers, and microsoft:
/* 32MB */ /* 96MB */ /* 128MB */ /* 256MB */
... ... etc.
if (version == NT ) {
delay_loop_count = 100;
big_array_bytes = 32000000;
}
else if (version == W2K) {
delay_loop_count = 1000;
big_array_bytes = 96000000;
}
else if (version == XP) {
delay_loop_count = 10000;
big_array_bytes = 128000000;
}
else if (version == DOTNET) {
delay_loop count = 100000;
big_array_bytes = 256000000;
}
waste_space_array = alloc( big_array_bytes );
random_fill( waste_space_array);
mount_C_filesystem();
sleep( delay_loop_count );
init_gui();
sleep( delay_loop_count );
get_user_command();
sleep( delay_loop_count );
Every version seems to take more and more memory, but seems to provide less and less increase in functionality, and is slow enough on older hardware to *force* an upgrade. There *must* be a reason! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!
Seriously.. does anyone out there *really* need a 3GHZ machine to run Office and browse the web?? I mean *seriously*. My "new" desktop is a 1ghz box I snagged free from work, which I'm going to put my *legal* copy of W2K on, and then make my current 550Mhz box *another* free-unix box (NetBSD, actually).
my god, that's almost exactly what I was going to say. Decided to do a search for Neuromancer first.
Wow, than Microsoft doesn't know China well enough. :-)
They copy everything that can be copied and I sure hope they do continue what they are good at
why do SO MANY PEOPLE completely miss this point. I mean, no offense to the parent, but this would seem a pretty obvious point.
If you can't connect the source to the binaries you are running, you can't say you have access to the source.
Maybe the majority of people really do not understand the very, very basics of programming.
One more reason that programming should be a required subject to graduate high school . . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Nah, you will have to do better than that, Mutlu would have said something more like 'these transparent lies only reveal your bottomless stupidity.'
The EFF only have half the story. The person 'working' for AT&T who called himself Hasan Mutlu was connected to the plot. However Mutlu was not his real name and AT&T was unaware that he was working for them. Mutlu was not acting alone there were several people involved including co-conspirators in England and Germany.
That is why the serdar argic posts were created at a far faster rate than the Mutlu posts.
"Mutlu" disappeared after certain inconsistencies were pointed out to the INS as did 'CoSar' who was alleged to be the sysop.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
No, the US has various parts of the Air Force, which isn't anywhere near the scale of what China's doing.
Yeah d00d im having major thoughts on this, because if it was hacked by Chinese, then that must mean the Chinese Government!!!
MS and China gov have a few things in common:
1. They both believe knowledge in the common person's hands is a bad thing.
2. They both believe they have the right to force others what to and how to think
3. Similarities in how both company and gov came to power, and holds on to it.
4. Both systems will fail eventually if they don't change.
Linux is America 1803.
If Chinese intelligence are satisfied with the MS discloser I've got a some land in Florida to sell.
Plus, the EP-3 and its crew members landed safely in China, unlike the Chinese PLA plane that collided with the EP-3 and crashed into the South China Sea. The Chinese accused the Americans of crashing into their plan. Americans reversed the claims. While the Americans were worried about getting the 24 crew members back (they did eventually along with the plane), Chinese citizens were pretty pissed about their dead pilots. Hence the good deal of anti-U.S. sentiment that went into some strains of Code Red.
The earlier bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade also contributed to the anti-U.S. sentiment.
Use GOSUB/RETURN
Opening the source to China is to a single foreign organization. Opening the source to the courts during the MS anti-trust trials makes it a matter of public record and EVERYONE can get it.
and all of my sensitive information goes on my linux box.
> Now China gets to see the source, and we don't? Wouldn't that put them at an advantage over US companies that can't audit the code for security holes?
;-)
Do you know how many US (and non US) companies have the Windows source code now? Do you know how many US (and non US) companies sign strategic (and not so strategic) cross licensing contracts with Microsoft (and some of them include full source code disclosure) every year?
Try the news or ask some universitys CS department how (not) hard it is to get the source from Microsoft.
So the question why "you" -- i assume you are an US citizen -- will not see the Windows source code is missing the point. You will not until someone posts it somewhere -- nor will the average chinese geek/forum addict/slashdot troll.
b.t.w. greetings from _OLD_ europe
Government cannot impose security classifications on privately funded software... However, export limitations could apply here
Borg is proposing this very same deal for Japan, too. Does it really make the difference if the Wintel souce is opened up? Maintaining your own changes requires lots of capable people. Governments are interested of such deal; they just take the lowest bidder.
Uh, unless the US phones up China beforehand and says "Hey dudes, we're going to fly over these sites in about a half an hour and snap some photos...all's fair right? ha ha" - then it's a spy plane.
It may not be a 'stealth' plane, on the other hand.
some things corporate are bad, some are good, some are just ok. The hard part about good and bad is it depends on who it is relative to. relative to them who want Linux to be on all the PC's instead of Windows. its bad for them when a corporation does something that promotes windows, but I agree its not really an excuse but as long as you understand why its ok. but if you don't like them right some yourself, right them good, and be unbias when you write your articles. its hard.
I say we all start a slashdot collection for money to bribe the chineese governement with to give us their code. Once its out M$ is screwed and the free people of the world will finally be free.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
no, whichever fag that modded me down, that's not flamebait, if it was flamebait it would have got a reply. that's called "informative" - you need a dictionary too.
hi,all, I'm writer. I interview a Chinese famous academician of Chinese Academy of Engineering 28(BeiJing time)about the agreement of GSP,this is his opinion I got just now,for your referrence : ££ Ken Gao: The GSP initiative proposed by Microsoft is a progress with respect to the previously closed source of Windows. It is also the result of competition caused by Linux. However, the nature of share source is totally different from that of open source. There are constrains exist with share source. As compared with open source what share source provided is merely a limited, partial openness. You really can't get the full freedom that the open source counterpart provided. It remains to be seen if such openness could relief the security concern on Windows platform. Besides, there are still issues on monetary, on the promotion of China domestic software industry. Recently the Law of Government Procurement in China is in effect. Its related regulations are also to be announced. Thus, the promotion of domestic made software as well as Linux will be enforced by law. As a result Linux should have a bright future in China. ----Chinese Academy of Engineering Ni GuangNan(former Legend Group CTO)
--I can't show you an example right now,(I will just presume you could find these with google) but I remember reading the US government admitted to doing a lot of official cyberwarfare against serbia when we invaded kosovo and bombed serbia. That and using the physical e-bombs that used carbon filaments to take down their electrical grid as much as possible, etc. Right now they also have an active psyops disinformation program to disseminate false news stories in broadcast and print media, on the net as "news" and in forums and chatrooms. It's just an outgrowth of propaganda leafletting and radio broadcasts. That would be separate from say civilian police actions against kiddie porners,etc, I am talking about pure political stuff run by the military or state department paramilitary spooks, so I guess those two examples count as state sponsored cyber warfare or terrorism.
[quote]Also true, but to fully complete your analogy and make it applicable, how would you feel about someone reverse-engineering your closed-source app and releasing their own open-source version? Applying the views you expressed about book authors writing about concepts, I would tend to think that you would have no problem with this practice. Right?
[/quote]
This is already done, all the time. A good book-related analogy would be simply a book that comes to the same conclusions, possibly even using the same methodologies, but phrased and presented differently.
The software equivalent might be Gaim and Aim. both have exactly the same ends, and use similar means to get there, but are not identical, and thus should not be a copyright violation.
--I can't say the reason for sure, but can guess. Last year microsoft execs have gone all over the world making offerings to governments who have made noises about going to linux. Soon thereafter, there's microsft at the door offerring either cheap software, free software, or in some cases, that plus now the source. It certainly appears to be an attempt not so much to get market share, but a desperation move to hang on to any market share they have. They have to think day to day, medium term, and long term. Medium term and long term just isn't looking too good for them, in my opinion. The computer world moves quickly, several large nations switching from microsoft could cause a snowball effect with other nations, and various corporations, and it could literally happen in one year. There's nothing magical about microsoft, there's been a lot of hugely successful corporations go bust or near bust, and do it quickly.
Frankly, I really don't give microsoft much longer to retain their large business model the way it's set up now. Most people do, I am merely guessing and disagreeing. Partly is security, their's is dismal and you have to be living in a mud hut out in some bushlands someplace to not know that. The other is economics, the entire world's economy is slowing dramatically, all companies and governments are instigating measures to cut costs, broadly speaking. Microsoft's products are just too expensive for what they do.
but you hardly read it on China Media£
--the trial was a jokeski, basically soap opera. What everyone expected-mostly-happened. They got found guilty but got a slap on the wrist. This is similar to most trials involving extremely wealthy parties. The basic rule of thumb is, the larger the intrinsic "worth" of the trial in terms of public impact, notoriety, financial concerns, etc, the less of a fine or sentence occurs as a percentage of the defendants net worth. Example, joe nobody breaks into the local store, gets caught stealing something. He'll pull jail time. He'll pull time in jail even before the trial, at least until bail is set if he even is offered bail that he can meet. At a minimum he might get say half a year in jail, totally not making money and in prison. I am being rather random here, but just to make a point. Large concern A or extremely wealthy international personage B, does a crime or series of crimes that is 10,000 times bigger in terms of "worth" than the small store burglar. Chances are high the large personages or corporation would get a relatively small proportional fine, his corporation won't be seized or dissolved, etc, and probably no actual physical presence in any prison.
I am also thinking in the real world of planet earth, that even if you are a high level judge, when you are talking literally BILLIONS of dollars at stake, that there are probably a lot of political and personally practical carrots and sticks that apply to "judging". None of those will ever be acknowledged in public, and would be denied if the question came up. It's like turn it around, put yourself in the judge's place realistically, exactly how physically safe would you feel for yourself and your family if you were ultimately responsible from removing the income stream from tens of thousand of people, many of them billionaires and multi millionaires, and of who knows how many shareholders who would lose more x-billions of dollars as their stock would be worthless and unsellable shortly? Would you ever really feel even remotely safe again?
Poor Microsoft. Maybe someone should sic the law onto Microsoft again. Perjury this scale is surely a crime - maybe even treasonous.
"I his bow, and spun and wove, likes you." Vere de Vere out of my mould's mouth dragged me of the voluntary apes.
"M$ has FAR more security problems than OpenSource."
;)
You mean all OSS programs vs all MS programs? I'm pretty sure MS would win that, because there's much more OSS. Even on average, MS would win, because there's a lot of "in development" or "public alpha" level OSS software (which, btw, I think is a good thing, just not necessarily for security
Also, you should note that the capital "s" in MS is produced by hitting Shift-S, not Shift-4.
"Countries (often those who hack into M$ computers) want the source opened, or else, so M$ complies...."
MS doesn't make computers. Also, there is no country on the face of the earth that hacked into any computers. Residents of a country may have, or operatives, but I seriously don't any Chinese people were involved with that "hacked by Chinese" nonsense.
"M$ won't open their source to the public, who needs knowledge and a defense against those attacks."
Yes, because the public could do a whole lot with the source. Hell, most MCSE admins are barely able to apply patches and stop unecessary services, so I wonder why you think opening the source would make any difference at all.
"Ergo, M$ opens the source to the wrong people, instead of the right ones. This is the difference between the "black hats" and the "white hats.""
Umm, no it isn't. You realize you just fucking said that the entirety of the US population would be "white hats" and not use that knowledge maliciously, while China is, in fact, a nation of deviant hackers. Wow, real mature attitude. I suppose I should have expected such insight from someone who can't even spell "MS". Go back to your bridge, troll.
The problem is that the PRC is still a Mao Zi Tong style communist state. They control everything. Have you ever lived there? There's no "make people depend on them." There's only "require obience or disappear." There are no high obligatory taxes, because the state determines profession, pay, and housing. There's no suing people, only swift and merciless justice. They do not try to monopolize services, because they are the one and only provider, unless they, for some short perion of time, decide to "open the door" and let competitors in until they actually become competitive. Ask any of the US aeronautical companies who went in their around '86 how they feel about the situation there. Whatever MS has done, it pales in comparison to the slaughtering of untold millions of people simply because they were educated.
Put simply, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Put identity in the browser.
less than a year ago, Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
Of course it only damages security if by opening up it would come in the hands of dangerous and evil people. Our comrades from China are very trustworthy, they would never want to harm an honest US company.
The fact that this spy network can be created and operated for years without public knowledge suggests to me that they aren't being entirely honest with us. I'd be willing to be a large sum of money that the US also has a large computer warfare department. You have the best military in the world, so it follows that electronic warfare is also pretty advanced.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
'nuff said.
Jim Allchin swore under oath that disclosing the Windows operating system source code could damage national security.
Yeah, but when was the last time you heard of a virus from Asia? Oh wait...
Submit a patch! ;-)))
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
Seriously, wouldnt microsoft have considered all these issues? They arent that dumb and go to china and give their source code like that...there must be a huge deal behind this entire thing...its seriously is a big time conspiracy..u dont see microsoft going to chine and saying: "Hey, we want to give our source code to you for no odd reason" think about it...
"Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet..and we are the cure"
Correct. Reverse-engineering is fine by me. If someone sees my product, and says "Hey, I could do that", and then proceeds to do just that, even if they use my product as a model, then that is just healthy competition.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio, replied: "You see, wire
telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New
York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this?
And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...