"So all the Orcs and Kobolds and low level Demons or Devils that a Fighter can take out with ease are wiped out. Now the Wizard blew his 9th level spells and next comes the overlord of those low level cannon fodder and he is doing quite well thank you as the Wizard no longer has Meteor Swarm to use to soften him up."
Noticing something of my own.... He may not have Meteor Swarm but he has a 20D6 Fireball.
I have been around from the beginning too. At work so I cannot reference exactly but I could have sword that you got bonus spells if your INT was high enough. Also your top end spells were limited by Int as well. Though I might be misremembering bonuses for a Cleric of high WIS.
Quaterstaff was 1D6 but I prefered Dagger even though it was 1D4. As the saying goes... if your Wizard had to use his dagger you were in trouble.
I still prefer the 1st Edition AD&D back of the Player's Handbook Bard.
"9th-level spells include Meteor Swarm! 20th-level mages can do a lot more than "helping the fighter out"; they can fry legions of the enemy before the fighters get a chance to do anything at all."
So all the Orcs and Kobolds and low level Demons or Devils that a Fighter can take out with ease are wiped out. Now the Wizard blew his 9th level spells and next comes the overlord of those low level cannon fodder and he is doing quite well thank you as the Wizard no longer has Meteor Swarm to use to soften him up.
"Actually, no, I didn't miss that. Now granted, my experience with D&D is limited to the original books, the "Basic Set", and AD&D First Edition and Second Edition; the newer editions may have already done something to improve these issues."
It seems that 3.0 and 3.5 have helped to make the LONE Adventurer more possible. Hell if you remember the average party was supposed to be 6 and in 3.0 they made it 4.
As to someone elses comment about video games... right on down to the rules about monsters coming back to a dungeon fast (Repopping bad guys).
The funny thing a lot of people miss here..... and many places not just/.
This is a GROUP/TEAM game. The mage may not have a large repetoire of spells at low level but was an asset when needed to supplement the fighters and others during combat.
It isn't like you have a single Mage wandering around alone with no one else.
Then at high levels the Mage was great for helping the fighter out and softening up the bad guys for the fighters.
I do not think that level 20ish is a good place for that though.
I think even a mild god should be effectively level 50ish... too many things that should be way up there. A lot of Demon lords are listed lower than they should be in my opinion.
It is fun to slap templates on some monsters... really makes them interesting.
I wouldn't call it simplification more streamlined. In 2E you punched someone - I punch him in the face - Roll D20 - Hit - then roll D20 to see where you hit them... hrmm in the foot. What?
Now you punch them and you hit or don't.
Other things like the variable XP for each class was not a simplification but an improvement.
3.XX was more logically oriented in how the system worked.
You think that is cheesy? Try Force of Nature with Spirit Link (I think that is it) on it. No Upkeep - Deals 8 points damage. Spirit Link gives you a life for ever point of damage dealt by creature. Also FoN does not tap while doing this.
RPGA - The reason there is so much crap about the rules. Bunch of teenage pimpled idiots who cannot handle a Polymoprh Spell or a 20D6 Fireball from a PC because it ruins their game.
Read the early pages of the Dungeon Masters GUIDE - Pre 3.0
These are guidelines and the DM has the right to change anything or use anything he wants. The only thing for a DM to do is apply what he wants consistently.
Why Ia m replying to an AC I am not sure. Other than maybe the mixture of my statement and his.
All SUV owners are NOT arrogant idiots. My Blazer is a 4X4 not some yuppie SUV. There is a difference and if you need it explained it isn't worth the time to try.
My main point was that people lately do not pay attention to what they are doing. It doesnt matter what they are driving. A deathbox Convertible Metro or a Tractor Trailer. When you are on the phone without a handsfree device, eating and drinking, playing with the radio, reading the Wall Street Journal or doing your stocks on a laptop you are not paying attention to what you are doing and that is the problem.
Recent studies have pointed to cell phone use as the highest cause of accidents now.
To use a line from a Montgomery Gentry song - I am not going to sacrifice my families safety to save on a little gas.
With that said.... I will put my life on the line by driving my Focus (33-35mpg) alone.
This is more of a replay to most of the thread.
Recent study - Driver's Skills have gone down in the last 20 years. With the advent of all these safety precautions people no longer have to learn to drive properly. Also since cars are now designed to keep the people inside safe even though the car is totalled cars are made less tough than 20-30+ years ago.
Another problem is attitude. How many people talk on cell phones without using a hands free device. Eating while in the car, Makeup and just about anything else. Additionally there is a LOT more cars on the road.
More safety devices will only give drivers more reason not to pay attention to the road and believe their car will save them.
Bring back steel construction and remvoe these annoying devices and teach people to be careful and pay attention.
I have a 74 Blazer that has no dents and it is not because I restored it. The reason is that the very few times someone has hit me their tin foil car folded up while my Steel Vehicle was fine. This included one Explorer that changed lanes with no signal and didn't look to see I was there on his left corner. He went right into me across the front of my Blazer and into the ditch.
Drinking and Driving is wrong but with the idiots out there who cannot drive safely while sober makes it worse when they are drunk.
Get Sattelite. If you get Sirius dont listen to Channel 7 in the mornings as Magic Matt is still thinks like he is on the ground and talks over the music.
While I was living in Florida, specifically Daytona Beach, one of my jobs that was seasonal was working as Security at the various nightclubs in town. A few of them actually put you through an orientation with a Police Officer on how to spot fakes, what to do with drunk individuals and other miscellaneous bar related problems. One thing that was told to us was that we as security for the establishment are obligated to confiscate and turn over to the Police all IDs determined to be fake. This was usually done either once a week or every night depending on the bar.
So at least in Florida up until I moved out 10 years ago it was legal to confiscate fake IDs.
Slashdot Mirror
"So all the Orcs and Kobolds and low level Demons or Devils that a Fighter can take out with ease are wiped out. Now the Wizard blew his 9th level spells and next comes the overlord of those low level cannon fodder and he is doing quite well thank you as the Wizard no longer has Meteor Swarm to use to soften him up."
Noticing something of my own.... He may not have Meteor Swarm but he has a 20D6 Fireball.
I have been around from the beginning too. At work so I cannot reference exactly but I could have sword that you got bonus spells if your INT was high enough. Also your top end spells were limited by Int as well. Though I might be misremembering bonuses for a Cleric of high WIS.
Quaterstaff was 1D6 but I prefered Dagger even though it was 1D4. As the saying goes... if your Wizard had to use his dagger you were in trouble.
I still prefer the 1st Edition AD&D back of the Player's Handbook Bard.
"9th-level spells include Meteor Swarm! 20th-level mages can do a lot more than "helping the fighter out"; they can fry legions of the enemy before the fighters get a chance to do anything at all."
So all the Orcs and Kobolds and low level Demons or Devils that a Fighter can take out with ease are wiped out. Now the Wizard blew his 9th level spells and next comes the overlord of those low level cannon fodder and he is doing quite well thank you as the Wizard no longer has Meteor Swarm to use to soften him up.
"Actually, no, I didn't miss that. Now granted, my experience with D&D is limited to the original books, the "Basic Set", and AD&D First Edition and Second Edition; the newer editions may have already done something to improve these issues."
It seems that 3.0 and 3.5 have helped to make the LONE Adventurer more possible. Hell if you remember the average party was supposed to be 6 and in 3.0 they made it 4.
As to someone elses comment about video games... right on down to the rules about monsters coming back to a dungeon fast (Repopping bad guys).
The funny thing a lot of people miss here..... and many places not just /.
This is a GROUP/TEAM game. The mage may not have a large repetoire of spells at low level but was an asset when needed to supplement the fighters and others during combat.
It isn't like you have a single Mage wandering around alone with no one else.
Then at high levels the Mage was great for helping the fighter out and softening up the bad guys for the fighters.
I guess it is still just a matter of opinion and interest. I will not adventure in Eberron but I will in Greyhawk.
I believe there was a Vampiric Great Wyrm in the Year of Rogue Dragons Trilogy.
"Then they add a dozen complicated new aspects and return to the same 20th level Bloated Mess they had in the previous edition."
I will completely agree with that.
As I said in another post I can handle 20+ level but I would have liked more fleshing out of Epic+ Levels.
I just moved to Springfield MA and I am trying to find someone in the area.
It has been a bit since I played so....
I thought circles only stopped one SOURCE and then tapped? Though they might not tap but I do not remember exactly been too many years.
I do not think that level 20ish is a good place for that though.
I think even a mild god should be effectively level 50ish... too many things that should be way up there. A lot of Demon lords are listed lower than they should be in my opinion.
It is fun to slap templates on some monsters... really makes them interesting.
I wouldn't call it simplification more streamlined.
In 2E you punched someone - I punch him in the face - Roll D20 - Hit - then roll D20 to see where you hit them... hrmm in the foot. What?
Now you punch them and you hit or don't.
Other things like the variable XP for each class was not a simplification but an improvement.
3.XX was more logically oriented in how the system worked.
You think that is cheesy? Try Force of Nature with Spirit Link (I think that is it) on it.
No Upkeep - Deals 8 points damage. Spirit Link gives you a life for ever point of damage dealt by creature. Also FoN does not tap while doing this.
RPGA - The reason there is so much crap about the rules. Bunch of teenage pimpled idiots who cannot handle a Polymoprh Spell or a 20D6 Fireball from a PC because it ruins their game.
Read the early pages of the Dungeon Masters GUIDE - Pre 3.0
These are guidelines and the DM has the right to change anything or use anything he wants. The only thing for a DM to do is apply what he wants consistently.
The biggest lack as far as I am concerned is little to no Epic+ info and rules other than a couple snippets and the Handbook.
With that said I have no real problem adjusting the gods and such to make them ultra epic and allow for my PCs to grow past 20.
Forgotten Realms outshines Greyhawk. It is still the most popular of the worlds. Eberron is just being pushed harder.
The Realms has more varied of a world with intrigue and adventure that surpasses Greyhawk.
Actually Chainmail was the original supplement. Along with Blackmoor and a couple others I cannot remember the name of. Then came Greyhawk.
Though admittedly Chainmail was not technically D&D but the interim format between D&D and Tatical Situations.
Slashdot--- oh well... So I am off by a year from the memory that is 30 years ago of a 10 year old.
I remember on the TRS-80 the tape loaded adventure called pyramid in 1976.
Why Ia m replying to an AC I am not sure. Other than maybe the mixture of my statement and his.
All SUV owners are NOT arrogant idiots. My Blazer is a 4X4 not some yuppie SUV. There is a difference and if you need it explained it isn't worth the time to try.
My main point was that people lately do not pay attention to what they are doing. It doesnt matter what they are driving. A deathbox Convertible Metro or a Tractor Trailer. When you are on the phone without a handsfree device, eating and drinking, playing with the radio, reading the Wall Street Journal or doing your stocks on a laptop you are not paying attention to what you are doing and that is the problem.
Recent studies have pointed to cell phone use as the highest cause of accidents now.
To use a line from a Montgomery Gentry song - I am not going to sacrifice my families safety to save on a little gas.
With that said.... I will put my life on the line by driving my Focus (33-35mpg) alone.
This is more of a replay to most of the thread. Recent study - Driver's Skills have gone down in the last 20 years. With the advent of all these safety precautions people no longer have to learn to drive properly. Also since cars are now designed to keep the people inside safe even though the car is totalled cars are made less tough than 20-30+ years ago. Another problem is attitude. How many people talk on cell phones without using a hands free device. Eating while in the car, Makeup and just about anything else. Additionally there is a LOT more cars on the road. More safety devices will only give drivers more reason not to pay attention to the road and believe their car will save them. Bring back steel construction and remvoe these annoying devices and teach people to be careful and pay attention. I have a 74 Blazer that has no dents and it is not because I restored it. The reason is that the very few times someone has hit me their tin foil car folded up while my Steel Vehicle was fine. This included one Explorer that changed lanes with no signal and didn't look to see I was there on his left corner. He went right into me across the front of my Blazer and into the ditch. Drinking and Driving is wrong but with the idiots out there who cannot drive safely while sober makes it worse when they are drunk.
VAX is not Dead. I work with them every day of the week.
Apparently they just couldn't get it up.
I just want to know what you say to a Jock who gets straight A's and goes into Computers when the Apple IIe was new and succeeds.
Get Sattelite. If you get Sirius dont listen to Channel 7 in the mornings as Magic Matt is still thinks like he is on the ground and talks over the music.
While I was living in Florida, specifically Daytona Beach, one of my jobs that was seasonal was working as Security at the various nightclubs in town. A few of them actually put you through an orientation with a Police Officer on how to spot fakes, what to do with drunk individuals and other miscellaneous bar related problems. One thing that was told to us was that we as security for the establishment are obligated to confiscate and turn over to the Police all IDs determined to be fake. This was usually done either once a week or every night depending on the bar.
So at least in Florida up until I moved out 10 years ago it was legal to confiscate fake IDs.