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Nissan Turns to Technology to Stop Drunk Driving

StonyandCher writes with a ComputerWorld story about new efforts by Nissan to reduce the danger of intoxicated drinkers through technology. A trio of new features installed in a prototype vehicle demonstrated this past week are designed to minimize the damage a drunk behind the wheel can cause. "The first [system] attempts to directly detect alcohol in the driver's sweat and gear shift lever. A second system in the car uses a camera mounted in front of the driver to monitor eye movement. If the driver is drowsy it triggers the seat belt to tighten and this movement will hopefully snap the driver out of their drowsiness or prompt them to take a rest. A third system monitors the path of the vehicle to ensure it's traveling in a straight line and not weaving about the road, as is common with a drunken driver."

287 comments

  1. To Prank Your Friends with this System... by DontScotty · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... is to swab the gearshift sensor with alcohol - and TA DA; no car for you!

    1. Re:To Prank Your Friends with this System... by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      Problem is, ethanol evaporates quickly, and unless there is a cup shaped region on the gear shift, or it is extremely cold, the alcohol will be gone in under 5 minutes most likely.

      --
      34486853790
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  2. Mandatory? by icydog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really hope this doesn't ever become mandatory in new vehicles in the future. I don't want to pay $2000 extra for my car when I don't drink. But if it's not made mandatory, who would buy it?

    1. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean "who would buy it" voluntarily? Probably lots of people. I think it's a great idea. I often find myself driving home on weekends not really sure if I'm over the limit (I probably am) or not. It would be nice to have something like this to help alert me if I'm actually not sober enough to drive.

      If it's voluntary, optional, and if it can be disabled (in case it's registering too many false positives), I think it's an interesting feature worth looking at.

    2. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I really hope this doesn't ever become mandatory in new vehicles in the future. I don't want to pay $2000 extra for my car when I don't drink. But if it's not made mandatory, who would buy it?

      People found guilty of DUI?

      In fact, I've seen ignition interlocks where the driver has to blow a breathalyzer before the car will start.

    3. Re:Mandatory? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Interesting
      But if it's not made mandatory, who would buy it?

      Companies.

      We've been trialling a system which uses special glasses to monitor the eye movements of dump truck drivers in open cut mining. The goal is to identify impairment - not just drugs and alcohol, but fatigue, illness or anything which might affect the operator's ability to control the vehicle.

      In the system we use, the monitoring computer has a three-stage alarm, first notifying the driver and their supervisor of the potential for impairment, second stage suggesting that the operator park up at first opportunity, and in the third stage, loud alarms in both the truck and control room. Third stage also throttles back the truck.

      Fully loaded, these trucks mass in excess of 400 tonnes, so any accident is going to be significant. How valuable it will be to transfer the technology to cars is uncertain, but I'd say there are plenty of circumstances where the consequences outweigh the costs, even for small vehicles.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    4. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've seen ignition interlocks where the driver has to blow a breathalyzer before the car will start.


      I've seen balloons, blown up before the drinking.

    5. Re:Mandatory? by ILuvRamen · · Score: 0

      Well let's see, if you wash your hands with alcohol based waterless cleaners or don't look around enough, your vehicle will shut off or suddenly pull you back in your seat so when they start hitting people and light poles all over America, I'm gonna have to do with: NOBODY will buy one. And there's no way in hell it will become mandatory unless it works 100%, in which case I'd support it.

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    6. Re:Mandatory? by Osty · · Score: 3, Informative

      What do you mean "who would buy it" voluntarily? Probably lots of people. I think it's a great idea. I often find myself driving home on weekends not really sure if I'm over the limit (I probably am) or not. It would be nice to have something like this to help alert me if I'm actually not sober enough to drive.

      Buy yourself a portable breathalyzer if you're not able to control your drinking. Not only will it let you know if you're too impaired to drive, it can also be great fun at parties. The person with the highest BAC wins! As a bonus, a portable breathalyzer can be used with any vehicle, and will likely cost much less than what Nissan will charge for this.

    7. Re:Mandatory? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Well... you could start with repeat drunk driving offenders. "Okay son, we are not prepared to believe you outright this time - the third time - that you are now rehabilitated and will not re-offend. So instead what we'll offer you is that you can have your license back now on the condition that you fork out $xxx to have this system installed in your car, and in any other car which you need to drive regularly, and that you submit your car regularly for checks that the system has not been tampered with, etc".

    8. Re:Mandatory? by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow, just wow...

      That's like, premeditated fucktardery...

    9. Re:Mandatory? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      How about just not giving them a license? Or locking them up for a few years.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    10. Re:Mandatory? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Most DUI people I know of end up driving anyways when their license is suspended. I don't think mandating this would make much of a difference. I know one guy who hasn't had a license for Ten years because he won't pay his OMVI fines.

    11. Re:Mandatory? by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      What, do you think all those people driving when they're too drunk to walk are unaware that they're over the limit, or that all of them had rides that died on the way to the party?

      --
      ResidntGeek
    12. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, alcohol from a hand sanitizer evaporates, while alcohol in the system is replenished from within.

    13. Re:Mandatory? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      It would if you made the penalty for driving on a DUI suspension a decade in jail, no parole. And no, O don't think thats an overreaction- these people have already proven they don't give a shit about the life of everyone else on the road by driving drunk. Society is safer with them in jail.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    14. Re:Mandatory? by an.echte.trilingue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From a management standpoint, you guys might want to consider having a first stage that alerts the driver only and not his supervisor. It tends to be incredibly demoralizing to employees to feel like they are under constant surveillance and that their bosses know the most minor of mistakes they make. Demoralized employees, in turn, besides being less productive, tend to be much more accident prone. Give people the chance to fix themselves before alerting their supervisors.

      Of course, I am not in the least familiar with your systems, but is just a thought.

      --
      weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
    15. Re:Mandatory? by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A decade in jail? For that? What, are you insane? We should just kill them outright. Actually, we should just execute anyone found guilty of *any* crime. That way, there'd be far less crime. Or, far fewer people. Any way I look at it, it's a win. Just to be fair, though, NO ONE gives a shit about anyone else on the road. Or haven't you driven, lately?

    16. Re:Mandatory? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It isn't that they don't give a shit. They think they aren't a problem. I don't know how many DUI convictions result from accidents verses pull overs. It would be interesting to find if the threat is as big as it is made out to be. (granted, I'm not taking the fatal part into consideration in this question.)

    17. Re:Mandatory? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Give people the chance to fix themselves before alerting their supervisors.

      It's not an oppositional situation.

      The trial was run in very close consultation with the employees. They, and their supervisors understand that the fatigue or impairment the machines are measuring is a hazard to be managed carefully, not a reason for disciplinary action.

      The data collected by the system is also useful in planning things like break times and alertness aids like spot quizzes. This is the system, if you're interested;
      http://www.optalert.com/johns_drowsiness_scale.htm l

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    18. Re:Mandatory? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      I really hope this doesn't ever become mandatory in new vehicles in the future. I don't want to pay $2000 extra for my car when I don't drink. But if it's not made mandatory, who would buy it?
      --
      Especially if sunglasses and gloves can be used to circumvent it.

    19. Re:Mandatory? by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      I remember training a few years back for an instrument rating in general aviation, every instructor that I flew with would either yell at me over the headset or physically tap my hands with a ruler the moment I stopped scanning the instrument panel. With good reason, if you stop, you can be dead. I live in the Philippines now, drink driving here is still largely socially acceptable, and rarely policed. I'd love for some type of real time driver monitoring to become mandatory. You make it so black and white with your analysis, but all of these false positives could be worked out - the bigger problem are the morons that would figure ways to circumvent it.

      If you can't see the benefits of such a system, you obviously have no concern for your own safety or anyone else. (It's all ok until it's too late) When I fly, I have a minimum expectation that those around me are alert and professional at what they do, I'd like to think they could feel the same way about me. Driving scares me significantly more than flying ever has.

    20. Re:Mandatory? by Mike89 · · Score: 1

      he person with the highest BAC wins!
      Keep in mind that (according to a police-friend), they're no longer accurate above about 0.20. After a heavy night of drinking pretty much everyone that uses mine blows 0.40 (I've seen a website refer to this as "coma/death" before, but I'd love to be corrected.)
    21. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, do you think all those people driving when they're too drunk to walk are unaware that they're over the limit

      Alcohol impairs judgment. So whether it's doubting that they ARE drunk, or whether it's thinking they'll be safe anyway, it's easy to think that such a failure in judgment is partly due to the effects of the alcohol. It's harder for many of us to believe that the drunk drivers are actually sociopathic.
    22. Re:Mandatory? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      What about the systems that call for the driver to give another sample while driving, and if no sample is given, or if the sample fails, the car stops? A balloon is only going to work for so long. But then if someone's the sort of cunt that is determined to endanger others just because they're too cheap to pay for a taxi, I guess they won't think anything about just filling the back seat of their car with balloons.

    23. Re:Mandatory? by Jerry+Beasters · · Score: 1

      It's not about us not seeing the benefits, it's that you are completely ignoring the downsides.

    24. Re:Mandatory? by juhaz · · Score: 1

      I've seen a website refer to this as "coma/death" before, but I'd love to be corrected. It's not absolute scale. There differences between people to begin with, and you build tolerance for alcohol, so heavy drinkers can be just moderately drunk at .4 even though a person not used to it could be in coma or even dead.

      http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2006/05/23 /driver_has_18_times_legal_alcohol_limit/
      http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/01/04/drunk-bul garian-050104.html

      The latter is close enough that I bet many have had >1.0 and lived, especially since he wasn't even passed out.
    25. Re:Mandatory? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      If the impairment is bad enough to trip the alarm, then the first stage (driver awareness of the condition) is likely already well past. In that event, an alarm to the driver only serves merely as a signal for him to start covering up that he is impaired.

    26. Re:Mandatory? by Warbothong · · Score: 1

      Instead of camera systems to track eye movements and such, why not make it simpler and use the breathalyser along with a camera to make sure getting in and out of the drivers' seat requires another test, the test is void if someone is leaning across from another seat, etc. Surely that would be an easier and more effective system? But wait, I forgot that buying a car comes with a free Selective Freedom Fighter injection which makes sure that governments can systematically take away rights and privacy from innocent people, but if they dare to even THINK about setting up a speed camera which might save lives......

    27. Re:Mandatory? by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      Solution 2 is rather than periodic prompts, measure the temperature of the air, too ;)

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    28. Re:Mandatory? by kahrytan · · Score: 1


      Or just make it mandatory for those with DUI offenses on their record.

      --
      \
    29. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Alcohol impairs judgment. So whether it's doubting that they ARE drunk, or whether it's thinking they'll be safe anyway, it's easy to think that such a failure in judgment is partly due to the effects of the alcohol. It's harder for many of us to believe that the drunk drivers are actually sociopathic.


      So, they're just plain stupid before they go out drinking, eh? I mean, unless you spend your life in an alcohol induced fog, you must realized that getting drunk is going to impair your judgment and ability to drive several tons of metal. Personally, I'm all for drunk driving... as long as the drunk kills themself and doesn't hurt anyone else while they're doing it.

    30. Re:Mandatory? by AdmiralJamrep · · Score: 0

      So, they're just plain stupid before they go out drinking, eh? I mean, unless you spend your life in an alcohol induced fog, you must realized that getting drunk is going to impair your judgment and ability to drive several tons of metal. Personally, I'm all for drunk driving... as long as the drunk kills themself and doesn't hurt anyone else while they're doing it.

      Well, A. the fact that drinking impairs your inhibitions from the outset definetly leads to the risk of one drink become two or three or more and B. if a driver is weaving across the road, the odds are fairly good that the object they'll end up finding first with the hood of their vehicle will be another vehicle.

      Ultimately it's better for everyone involved if someone whose judgement is impaired isn't able to start the car in the first place.

    31. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And in most cases it doesn't work. You have to blow *hard* and for about 6 seconds before it accepts the sample. Some units even require you to hum while you blow. Also, atleast in PA, you must do a "rolling sample" every 9 minutes. How many baloons do you have? Part of my job involves working with these devices, both installing and as a tech.

    32. Re:Mandatory? by beatle11 · · Score: 1

      A breathalyser seems to make the most sense to me rather than all these other features. If you are over the limit it should not let you drive. Not to say that Nissan's efforts are for naught. Its good that they are making an effort to try and reduce the number of intoxicated drivers on the road.

    33. Re:Mandatory? by Criton · · Score: 1

      No one would want to work for a supervisor who does constant monitoring so no logging shit or warn the driver first the company that chose to use such a system with out these two features would very very quickly go out of business as no one skilled would work for said company and they would only be able to hire unskilled greenhorns and illegals who would soon leave as soon as they are skilled enough to work elsewhere with no big brother.

    34. Re:Mandatory? by Criton · · Score: 1

      The next news we'll hear about nissan is they have gone out of business because the pop up hood causes more accidents then it solves and sales have dropped off because no one will buy a car that has it's own priorities outside those of the driver. I mean really this crap will not sale they just wasted a lot of R&D that could have went elsewhere.

    35. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear me. I THINK there was an attempted sentence in there. Further analysis yields a lack of readily noted coherence. I would - in situations where the slightest mishap could be a life-or-death situation - want to be monitored for impairments, along with having my supervisors notified of any impairments. More often than not, when a supervisor becomes aware of an impairment, they adjust the workload, etc. to compensate for the loss in judgment, etc.

    36. Re:Mandatory? by computer_redneck · · Score: 1

      This is more of a replay to most of the thread. Recent study - Driver's Skills have gone down in the last 20 years. With the advent of all these safety precautions people no longer have to learn to drive properly. Also since cars are now designed to keep the people inside safe even though the car is totalled cars are made less tough than 20-30+ years ago. Another problem is attitude. How many people talk on cell phones without using a hands free device. Eating while in the car, Makeup and just about anything else. Additionally there is a LOT more cars on the road. More safety devices will only give drivers more reason not to pay attention to the road and believe their car will save them. Bring back steel construction and remvoe these annoying devices and teach people to be careful and pay attention. I have a 74 Blazer that has no dents and it is not because I restored it. The reason is that the very few times someone has hit me their tin foil car folded up while my Steel Vehicle was fine. This included one Explorer that changed lanes with no signal and didn't look to see I was there on his left corner. He went right into me across the front of my Blazer and into the ditch. Drinking and Driving is wrong but with the idiots out there who cannot drive safely while sober makes it worse when they are drunk.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BF
    37. Re:Mandatory? by afidel · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but by the time you have racked up 3 DUI's you have proven that you don't give a flying f about anyone else on the road. At that point operating a vehicle while impaired should become attempted vehicular homicide with whatever consequences that carrier in the jurisdiction in question. I believe in giving people a second chance, and making an allowance for someone slipping up at some time later in life, but society needs to draw a line somewhere and if people are unable to control their own behavior and addictions then society needs to do it for them. Hell I think we should be arresting and incarcerating habitual drunk drivers a lot more than people who do a lot of other recreational drugs, they later are generally not endangering anyone other than themselves.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    38. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      odd. i have an 00 Audi that has no dents and it is not because i restored it. The reason is that the very few times someone has hit me, their tin foil car folded up while my Steel Vehicle was fine. This included one Ford Escape that changed lanes with no signal and didn't look to see I was there on his left corner. Maybe it was my increased rotor size or more aggressive brake pads, but I stopped while he went right across the front of my Audi and into the ditch. Drinking and Driving is wrong but with the idiots out there who own SUVs and happily risk killing a struggling father of 4 driving his civic (for instance when he has to stop short because of another driver in front of him), it makes it worse when they feel grand and above everyone.

      fyi, while my car may cause serious damage to a civic, they will at least have a chance to survive in the event of a head-on or side impact collision since the grill of my car won't make intimate face love to the other driver/passengers. i also have a mazda mx-6 as my city driver (40mpg baby) and its damn scary when a SUV driver didn't see me coming and almost T-boned me. his headlights were in line with my roof.

    39. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New market for product to fill balloons with warm air?

    40. Re:Mandatory? by Applekid · · Score: 1

      I wonder, then, if there will ever be an alignment of the law to judge actual impairedness and not an absolute percentage of alcohol in the blood.

      Not to be on the side of drunk drivers, mind you. I'd rather the laws were tailored so that no amount of impairment is acceptable and leave the BAC alone.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    41. Re:Mandatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In denial about your alcoholism much?

    42. Re:Mandatory? by computer_redneck · · Score: 1

      Why Ia m replying to an AC I am not sure. Other than maybe the mixture of my statement and his.

      All SUV owners are NOT arrogant idiots. My Blazer is a 4X4 not some yuppie SUV. There is a difference and if you need it explained it isn't worth the time to try.

      My main point was that people lately do not pay attention to what they are doing. It doesnt matter what they are driving. A deathbox Convertible Metro or a Tractor Trailer. When you are on the phone without a handsfree device, eating and drinking, playing with the radio, reading the Wall Street Journal or doing your stocks on a laptop you are not paying attention to what you are doing and that is the problem.

      Recent studies have pointed to cell phone use as the highest cause of accidents now.

      To use a line from a Montgomery Gentry song - I am not going to sacrifice my families safety to save on a little gas.

      With that said.... I will put my life on the line by driving my Focus (33-35mpg) alone.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BF
    43. Re:Mandatory? by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      My point was that NO ONE gives a flying fuck about ANYONE else on the road. People are trying to avoid accidents to avoid damage to their own vehicles and time spent dealing with police, insurance companies, etc, and to save their own skins. I'm not saying that people actively wish others harm, but if you spend more time thinking about the other drivers than you need to in order to drive, ("is that person coming into this lane?" "are they going to stop even though the light just turned yellow?" etc) then you are probably not paying enough attention to the road. DUI is no worse than driving without paying attention and yet there is no public outcry over that issue, even though driver inattention is a factor in the vast majority of auto accidents. Where is the outcry about the statistically more deadly DWI, Driving While Inattentive?
      Note that I condone neither drunk nor inattentive driving. I just don't see why all the fuss about the one, which is (in my opinion) mostly just a subset of the other.

  3. oh no by b3x · · Score: 5, Funny

    bad for those of us with a lazy eye, use hand disinfectants, and weave to warm up our tires.

    1. Re:oh no by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1
      Racers don't weave to warm up their tires, they weave to clean them. Sticky racing tires accumulate a lot of junk that can affect starts/restarts, so they weave to keep them clean.

      If you really have to build heat into your tires, use your brakes or spin your tires. Of course, the only time you ever need to do this is when racing...

    2. Re:oh no by markov_chain · · Score: 1

      They also weave to get the last bit of fuel into the intake, when they are running low.

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    3. Re:oh no by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      It's called tire scrubbing, and we black flag drivers who do it in pit lane.

  4. What About Bartenders or Waiters? by Gryle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Will the car detect the alcohol on their hands (but not in their systems) and refuse to let them drive?

    --
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    1. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      ... and when you spill some E85 on you at the gas station, will it not let you drive afterwards?

    2. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Yes. Ironically, it won't stop an actual drunk, who will probably shift with a glove, or a napkin from the glove box. Alcohol helps you do stupid things, but it doesn't actually make you stupid.

    3. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      Alcohol that's on your hands should evaporate quickly and I doubt think a detectable quantity could remain on your hands indefinitely.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    4. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't worry too much about that, you could just wear gloves. I'm sure a drunk person would *never* think of doing that.

      More seriously, I think there is still value in a system that requires a deliberate attempt to subvert it. A person getting into a car and driving after possibly having too much to drink could argue that they thought they were under the limit (0.05% here in Australia). A person getting into a car and deliberately circumventing a system that has already told them quite clearly that they are over the limit could not, or certainly could not nearly as easily.

      It won't necessarily stop the first offence, but will mean that there is much less chance of a person being given the benefit of the doubt when they clearly don't deserve it.

    5. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people keep gloves with them? The only way a drunk would have gloves to fool this system would be if they decided in advance to bring some gloves so they could do some drunk driving later on.

    6. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      A person getting into a car and deliberately circumventing a system that has already told them quite clearly that they are over the limit could not, or certainly could not nearly as easily.

      Suppose the system was out of alignment? It isn't maintained regularly, and is likely to be even less reliable than the breathalyzers are. If I had something like that that acted up (or I was diabetic), damn right I'd circumvent it.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    7. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I carry gloves in all my cars. You never know when you might have to change a tire, check the oil and so on. They are cheap and I have spares.

    8. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or worse yet, it record the alcohol in the cars computer and you get into an accident that they come back later and cite you with a DUI over and consider it your fault when someone else ran a red light.

    9. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Funny

      If only most cars had some sort of...I don't know, maybe some type of compartment in which people could store their gloves. Oh, well, guess they're SOL.

    10. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by dave420 · · Score: 0

      In some places a charge of DUI can only be given if a positive sample is taken using the breath-analyser at a police station, the initial roadside test is performed to allow the police to get this second sample. Having a reading taken at the side of the road is not enough to give you a DUI charge.

    11. Re:What About Bartenders or Waiters? by Blkdeath · · Score: 1

      In some places a charge of DUI can only be given if a positive sample is taken using the breath-analyser at a police station, the initial roadside test is performed to allow the police to get this second sample. Having a reading taken at the side of the road is not enough to give you a DUI charge.

      Here in Ontario, Canada the law gets a little snaky when it comes to roadside tests. Technically, it's not legally required to provide a breath sample at the side of the road but if you refuse you get charged with refusal to provide a sample. If you're fussy about it, you can demand to provide blood/urine instead of a breath sample citing inaccuracies of same and you'll be ok.

      The initial breath sample, yes, is used to determine if you're fit to drive or not. 'Round here you're taken into custody, your vehicle towed and impounded and you're brought to the station (quickly) to provide another sample if you blow higher than 0.050 which will result in a 12 hour suspension. Somebody other than you has to provide their driving license to get your vehicle out of impound in the meantime, partly because your license remains at the station, stapled to your suspension notice, until you pick it up the next day.

      If you blow greater than 0.080, you're taken to the station to blow another sample at which point if the sample is confirmed you're formally charged with DUI.

      Now some roadside meters are a little less conclusive indicating instead one of three conditions; green (okay), yellow (warning) or red (intoxicated). These are only designed as quick warning levels and don't stand up in court as evidence, only as reasonable cause to demand a proper sample at the station.

      For the record I've given a sample at a RIDE program twice in my life. I've been stopped a couple dozen times, but only twice after drinking. The first time after having a pint of beer with dinner over about a 2 hour period I blew a 0.000. The second time I'd had about three pints and one shot of hard liquor and blew a 0.034. That's about as inebriated as I've ever been behind the wheel and I was considerably below the 12 hour limit.

      Oddly enough, and to get back a bit towards the topic, my problem after a night at the bar tends not to be the alcohol in my bloodstream but moreso drowsiness. Usually I'm at the bar after a 9-10 hour shift at work, I spend another 2-4 hours at the bar and by that time I'm just ready for bed. Even if I nurse a single pint all night with wings, fries, etc. I'm still almost bad off enough to require a taxi. The systems proposed, if they work as advertised, are better off than the blow-tests imposed by the Ontario government for repeat DUI offenders. It doesn't matter if your BAL is 0.000 if you're too damn tired to keep your eyes open. A system to tell you to take a 15 minute "power nap" at the roadside would be wonderful.

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

  5. so much for windy roads! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "A third system monitors the path of the vehicle to ensure it's traveling in a straight line and not weaving about the road, as is common with a drunken driver"

    1. Re:so much for windy roads! by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Drunken weaving tends to be much less regular. The engineers that design roads tend to make them somewhat regular. And the radii of the curves tend to be appropriate for the speed of the car.

      Drunk drivers will frequently react late to course corrections and do so in a more sudden manner. Driving a straight line isn't necessarily the problem that incorrectly reacting to a turn is.

      I could be wrong about this, but if somebody is sober enough to have the two cases confused it is unlikely that the system would assume drunkeness. This system is more of a way of lessening the drunken driving, not a way of completely eliminating it.

    2. Re:so much for windy roads! by drsquare · · Score: 1
      I've driven drunk, and I don't 'weave'. All drinking does is slow your reaction times, and makes you fuck up lane changes. It also lessens your sense of the width of the vehicle.

      The engineers that design roads tend to make them somewhat regular.
      Engineers don't design roads, they're already there, often following centuries old routes. My route to work is full of sharp bends, this device would probably decide that I'm drunk, even when I was sober.
    3. Re:so much for windy roads! by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Dude, the OP said WINDY, not WINDING.

    4. Re:so much for windy roads! by DaScribbler · · Score: 1

      You sir... are blowing smoke up your own ass...

      By your own statement... "All drinking does is slow your reaction times" is the number one cause of Weaving. Were you inhibited with alcohol when you even decided to publish your response?

    5. Re:so much for windy roads! by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Weaving? Even when drunk I can drive in a straight line perfectly well. Maybe you've just been watching too much TV, which is where you get your knowledge on drink driving.

    6. Re:so much for windy roads! by markov_chain · · Score: 1

      I don't think you got his point. The issue is not with driving on straight roads. The issue is reacting to a sudden curve. Slowed reaction times = notice the curve too late = must turn harder to correct = must steer back to correct the overcorrection => weaving.

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    7. Re:so much for windy roads! by drsquare · · Score: 1

      It doesn't work like that, you can see curves a long way off.

  6. Solution! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Solution: Build environmentally-friendly, agrarian, energy-concious biodomes. Since man (and woman) will be at peace with nature and balance, they will only need to travel as far as their garden rather than to the work place or the pub (which require vehicles.)

    Problem solved!

    1. Re:Solution! by justin12345 · · Score: 1

      I was going to say build cars completely out of pillows. Then when people get drunk and run into one another they will have someplace to sleep it off.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
  7. Hmmm by Bluesman · · Score: 3, Funny

    "The first [system] attempts to directly detect alcohol in the driver's sweat and gear shift lever."

    Sorry Nissan, only my wife touches my gear shift lever.

    Badum, tiss!

    Thanks, I'll be here all week, enjoy the buffet, don't forget to tip your waitress.

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    1. Re:hmmm by MonorailCat · · Score: 1

      I wholeheartedly agree. I can not stand having mass I don't want in my car coming from equipment I don't want. I can see myself looking at kit cars in the future to get around this nanny-state legislation. I'm particularly worried about the upcoming all-cars-must-have-stability control laws. I sure hope it can be turned off.

    2. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn right! And I guess it's my personal responsibility not to get killed by your drunk ass! Down with Big Brother!

    3. Re:hmmm by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Strangely enough, seat belts and driver/passenger airbags ARE the only features required by the government. Looks like you're on the same page as big brother, there.

      ABS, traction control, collision avoidance hardware, side-curtain airbags, and the like are all optional equipment. Just try buying a base model entry-level car--it likely won't have anti-lock brakes. Two examples: Ford Focus, Nissan Versa.

      Now, if you mean that you can't get an upscale car without these features, then yes. Damn Audi for making my car safer without interfering with my driving! I can't do donuts in the mountains and the car stays firmly on track around we corners. How dare they! These are Bad Things for public roadways--if you want to have fun with a plain mechanical system from the 70s, do it on your own property, not six feet behind my back bumper, thank you very much.

    4. Re:Hmmm by ben+there... · · Score: 1

      Sorry Nissan, only my wife touches my gear shift lever. You were kidding, but I think you're right.

      Now instead of drunk drivers, we're going to have drunk drivers that get their wives (or their kids!) to do the shifting for them.
    5. Re:Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there's someone else in the car and they're letting the impaired drive, there are some serious problems. Their wives should be the ones at the wheel in that case.

    6. Re:hmmm by Chrisje · · Score: 1

      > seat belts, then airbags, then ABS, then traction control, then side-curtain airbags, now this
      > crap.

      Funny you should mention that, because when I still lived in Sweden, I had a Saab 9-3 150 bhp TurboDiesel car with Airbags, Seatbelts, ABS, traction control, anti-spin, side-curtain airbags and another feature you don't mention: Adaptive steering. Meaning that depending on the steering the driver was doing and the position, speed and lateral movement of the car, the car would decide to help steering a bit wit the rear axles.

      The ABS, Traction control, adaptive steering and Anti-Spin technology, when linked to a powerful engine and powerful brakes, made for a car that was extraordinarily safe and stable while being a total fucking blast to drive.

      Then, in Copenhagen, a Mercedes S 600 decided to pile drive me off the road. So the Airbag, side-curtain airbag, deformation zone and seatbelts did their job to the point where I hardly felt I was hit myself. There was a loud bang and a smell, but those were the airbags. The car got fixed up, and is still in service. All of this technology makes it a wonderful vehicle.

      Then I moved to Israel, where I got a Ford Focus with ABS, Airbag and belts. The rest of the options are just not there. And it is a total piece of shit to drive. Much like all other cars in Israel, because people are hardly enabled to order anything but the cheap-ass default cars without all the trimmings.

      So, so get back to your point... "Ain't it just like automobile manufacturers" to give us splendid high-tech to really enhance our driving experience?

    7. Re:hmmm by scatters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would you want to turn of stability control? The last two cars I have owned have all had ESP programs (granted, the ESP is defeatable if I wanted to take the car to the track), and they have never been intrusive. There are a number of studies that show vehicles, particularly SUVs, have a much lower chance of rolling in a collision if they have stability control.

      About 10 years ago, I was in a 100+ MPH head on collision with a drunk driver who was being pursued by the local police. I was driving a Pontiac Fiero, which has about the same number of safety features that your future kit car is likely to have, and the impact basically folded the entire car in on itself. Fortunately the only place inside the cabin that wasn't totally compressed was the driver's footwell and seat, but I still had to be cut out of the car, and had the engine been in the front instead of the rear, I wouldn't be here to write this. Since then, safety features in the cars that I buy is always a major priority; sure they add weight, but my current car has 1 HP per 9 LBS of weight and a full array of air-bags, crumple zones, ESP, all wheel drive, ABS, you name it, and it's not a slouch.

      I find it amusing that people don't want these features because it adds weight, and think they are so proficient a driver that that shaving those potentially life-saving pounds will actually result in a perceptable difference to the car's performance. Maybe there are people out their for whom weight savings are critical, but these are the guys buying BMW M3 CSLs and ripping out the back seats in order to get optimal track performance, not becuase it will get them to work 2 seconds faster. Your car's performance will never be a significant factor in the time that it takes to get travel from A-B on most American roads, but your car's safety features may one day save your life.

      --
      A One that isn't cold, is scarcely a One at all.
    8. Re:hmmm by wwahammy · · Score: 1

      You're right, why in the world would we want to use a computer to increase safety? The human brain works faster than any computer doesn't it?

    9. Re:hmmm by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about a car worth importing... like a "made for the Autobahn" Audi or a TVR. Cheaper models, why bother?

      --
      The game.
    10. Re:hmmm by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i'll clip the wires on the bags and put in a 5 point racing harness, i would rather have a proper restraint system than a shitty 3 point and a bomb in the steering wheel to pick up the slack

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    11. Re:hmmm by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      The purpose of which being what? We don't have an Autobahn. If you're importing a car, the only requirements are seat belts and airbags, which you're okay with. You're not forced by the government to get anything else. If you're going to be driving like a jackass, you'll probably want those safety features one day.

    12. Re:hmmm by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      The only time I don't drive within the confines of State and Federal law, or "like a jackass", in a street legal vehicle is when I'm on the track.

      --
      The game.
    13. Re:hmmm by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Then I fail to see what the problem is. The only government-mandated safety features are the ones you admitted wanting anyway.

    14. Re:hmmm by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      Unsprung weight is the problem.

      --
      The game.
    15. Re:hmmm by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      You were bitching about the government taking away your fun. That was easily debunked. Now you're bitching about unsprung weight, which is decidedly less important on a smooth and well-maintained track than on actual roads. Your "problem" keeps shifting. Neither this article nor most safety systems add to unsprung weight. Traction control is the only one that does, and this weight is more than offset by the improved tracking of the car. Whining about it is like being upset that modern jet engines won't let you stall them.

    16. Re:hmmm by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The human brain works faster than any computer doesn't it?

      I know a few people that would put this theory to a stress test...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Not in Russia... by hotfireball · · Score: 1

    Even russian guy is completely Ok, the car won't run due to detecting the alcohol percentage in his cloth since long usage. :-)

  9. Better idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am drunk off Johnnie Walker whiskey right now, and I am not going anywhere. I would rather be out with friends, but I am not going to risk others' safety.

    What happened to personal responsibility, Renault?

    1. Re:Better idea... by JimDaGeek · · Score: 1

      Uh, yeah because drunk people are noted as the epitome of personal responsibility ;-)

      --
      General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
    2. Re:Better idea... by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      I think most people who drink have personal responsibility.

      I'm sure a huge chuck of the population gets drunk on a Friday night--but only X of them drive drunk.

      I don't know the actual numbers, but a few bad eggs give everyone a bad name.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    3. Re:Better idea... by JimDaGeek · · Score: 1

      From my experience it depends on age; I am 34. When I was 21 and would go to a pub, bar, club, etc, I would usually see at least 1 drunk fight. When I was in college at parties, well things would get real crazy. Then when I got about 25, I started seeing more maturity with those who drink, and the drinking responsibly increases with age.

      With lower age groups there are a lot more bad eggs, however with older age groups the bad egg count seems to drop considerably and is usually made up of alcoholics/abusive drinkers. Just my $0.02

      --
      General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
    4. Re:Better idea... by Phisbut · · Score: 1

      With lower age groups there are a lot more bad eggs, however with older age groups the bad egg count seems to drop considerably and is usually made up of alcoholics/abusive drinkers. Just my $0.02

      Just a wild guess here, but could it be that older age groups have fewer immature drunk drivers because most of them died young?

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    5. Re:Better idea... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "I'm sure a huge chuck of the population gets drunk on a Friday night--but only X of them drive drunk"

      If you believe that, then you are a bit in 'the dark'. Those bars out there are filled with people that frankly have the majority of the patrons over the legal limit...a good % of those are well above the limit.

      Those people drove there, and I can guarentee the 98% or more will drive themselves home.

      I'd say that it in fact is the rare case that someone at a bar will leave their car, and catch a cab home...I've very rarely done that myself...as that I wouldn't risk leaving my car somewhere overnight to get damaged or stolen.

      I also have in my experience...never seen anyone pop up to be a 'designated driver'. Only in more recent years as that some friends are married...they'll let their wives drive home since they generally don't drink as much as the guys do.

      But, really, take a look on an early Sat. morning at a bar that had a full parking lot the night before....and count how many people did the responsible thing, and left their car there and caught another way home. I doubt you need more than one hand to count.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:Better idea... by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      When Halo 1 and 2 releases, my friends would get together at one of our houses, get smashed, and play Halo all weekend. This lasted for 5 years. Never once did anyone get in a car and drive while intoxicated. We parked the cars Friday night and they didn't move again until Sunday afternoon when everyone sobered up. If we needed something from the store, we walked the three blocks to get it.

      I'm sure there are a bunch of people at bars getting toasted and then driving. But my friends and I can't be the only ones hanging out at home, not driving.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    7. Re:Better idea... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "I'm sure there are a bunch of people at bars getting toasted and then driving. But my friends and I can't be the only ones hanging out at home, not driving."

      That's well and good, but, I'd dare say the majority of people (of age for bars, 21yrs+) aren't gamers, and if they are, they certainly aren't spending entire weekends at home playing them as a group. Most of the people going out to bars are going to get laid or just blasted.

      This isn't a jab at you...everyone needs to have fun in their own way, but, I'd just suggest that your method is probably a minority one. I was just stating that a LOT of people go to bars....you can see that from the crowded bar parking lots....and the majority of those people there, drink to legal excess...and the heavy majority of those people...drive home.

      I'd dare say the later it gets on a weekend night....you get closer to a majority of the people on the road all being intoxicated. In my experience...most people that go out to drink, do in fact...drive themselves home.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  10. *Sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'The first [system] attempts to directly detect alcohol in the driver's sweat and gear shift lever.'

    Okay that's just stupid, there are many healthcare workers who use alcohol wipes and are going to get some on their hands. There are probably all sorts of circumstances where alcohol is going to end up on hands/the gear shift and screwing with the sensors.

    1. Re:*Sigh* by Remusti · · Score: 1

      Alcohol wipes and rubbing alcohol are Isopropyl alcohol, not ethanol. I would expect the sensors to be able to tell the difference. Also, I would not recommend drinking Isoproyl, it does not result in fun times.

    2. Re:*Sigh* by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I would guess that if you liberally wiped down your hands with an alcohol wipe, all traces of it would be gone within a couple of minutes tops. It's not something that's going to linger around, the alcohol in those wipes evaporates away very quickly.

    3. Re:*Sigh* by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      the sensor most likely won't know the difference, if it was a problem use Benzalkonium Chloride wipes, they are also less harsh on sensitive plastics

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  11. Probably a bad idea. by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Probably a bad idea. It will encourage drivers to drive drunk. Experience with ABS systems on cars indicates that it encourages drivers to brake more aggressively. This seems more of the same.

    Drowsy driver detection systems have been around for a while, mostly on large trucks.

    We're in an annoying period where vehicle control systems can help a bit, but aren't yet good enough to reliably drive cars automatically. That's getting close, though. A few more rounds of the DARPA Grand Challenge, in tougher situations, and we'll be there.

    1. Re:Probably a bad idea. by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Probably a bad idea. It will encourage drivers to drive drunk.

      ABS compensates when the driver brakes too hard, but does not discourage the driver from taking such action in the future. A drunk-driving detector won't compensate for your poor driving while drunk, but it will instead warn you of your impairment to discourage you from continuing to drive. Those are two very different concepts.

    2. Re:Probably a bad idea. by polymath69 · · Score: 1

      Experience with ABS systems on cars indicates that it encourages drivers to brake more aggressively.

      Yeah, that's the training; if you need to stop urgently, depress the brake and let the computer worry about static vs. dynamic friction. That's what it's for.

      Some will abuse that technology by cutting people off and braking. That's not a problem with the technology. The problem is that some people are jerks.

      Jerks will similarly try to abuse this technology with such measures as rubber gloves, sunglasses... I hesitate to imagine. But there are two problems with this tech. The second is that it will probably pass costs of implementation along to the innocent, but the first is that it won't stop people who are intent on being jerks.

      I have used the word "jerk" above, but you probably know the word I really mean.

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    3. Re:Probably a bad idea. by Osty · · Score: 1

      We're in an annoying period where vehicle control systems can help a bit, but aren't yet good enough to reliably drive cars automatically. That's getting close, though. A few more rounds of the DARPA Grand Challenge, in tougher situations, and we'll be there.

      You'll get my manually-driven car when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

    4. Re:Probably a bad idea. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You'll get my manually-driven car when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

      As a volunteer ambulance driver I've performed that service for many people.

      Sadly, not all of them were the ones who were taking the risk of driving drunk or fatigued. They just got in the way of someone who'd made that choice.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:Probably a bad idea. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      You must live in California. Anyone who lives in a state where it snows and ices knows ABS is a fucking godsend.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    6. Re:Probably a bad idea. by nick_davison · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ABS compensates when the driver brakes too hard, but does not discourage the driver from taking such action in the future. A drunk-driving detector won't compensate for your poor driving while drunk, but it will instead warn you of your impairment to discourage you from continuing to drive. Those are two very different concepts. Previously:

      One beer... I'm pretty sure I'm sober enough to drive.

      Two plus... I'm not sure, better not chance it.

      Now

      One beer... It lets me start, I'm sober.

      Five beers... It won't let me start. Yay, I can rely on this.

      Three beers... Eh, I'll give it a shot. Hey, what do you know? I guess I'm more sober than I thought. Let's drive!

      Whilst it's true that it's not exactly the same concept as ABS which compensates without discouraging, it does have a huge drawback in terms of giving people the sense that they can pass responsibility off on to a machine to determine if they're too drunk rather than erring on the side of caution.

      Of course, the flip side is that many people don't err on the side of caution. It was an eye opener for me, moving from a country where drink driving was a major no-no to one where just about every person I meet seems to have a story about how they got pulled over after having "only had a few" and how unfair they felt it was. For people who err on the side of excess, this system will rein them in - great. For people who err on the side of caution however - and I desperately want to believe there are more people like this - it plays in to all kinds of behavioral psychology weaknesses to encourage them to stop playing it so safe. If that is indeed the larger group, it probably does make things worse overall.
    7. Re:Probably a bad idea. by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      It is similar, though, because trust in the system leads people with a 0.07999 BAC to think they're perfectly fine to drive. At .07999 BAC you're legal to drive, but still impaired.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    8. Re:Probably a bad idea. by markov_chain · · Score: 1

      Experience with ABS systems on cars indicates that it encourages drivers to brake more aggressively.
      You know, this reminds me of those huge displays they put on the side of the road which measure and display your speed, and alongside it the speed limit.

      They had one at my college campus, my buddy holds the record of 95 in a 30 :)
      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    9. Re:Probably a bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You think matters will improve if you let computers drive? Have you ever played GTA? The AI drivers in it are absolutely fucking worthless, and they have direct access to all the information on the road and every obstacle. They still crash into them. Real AI drivers will *not* have direct access, they'll have to infer it all, and computers are really bad at inferring.

      So, I don't care how many people you've pulled out of cars, Mr Ambulance Driver. It's a risk I'm willing to take, and it's far better than the alternatives.

    10. Re:Probably a bad idea. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I remember seeing one such display, where someone attached a large chalkboard, complete with some "highscores".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Probably a bad idea. by feronti · · Score: 1

      Did it ever occur to you that the AI drivers were worthless because they were meant to simulate a _human_ driver?

    12. Re:Probably a bad idea. by afidel · · Score: 1

      ABS does jack shit on ice. If you have no traction, you have no traction. It's the same kind of stupid people with 4 wheel drive, they think they can go like hell even when there's no traction. That's why about 40-50% of vehicle in the ditch are 4x4's whereas they are probably only about 10% of all vehicle. They will both help with snow and slush but at least around here ice=zero traction.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:Probably a bad idea. by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      FWIW, ABS isn't meant to deal with hard braking (directly), it's a means to automatically compensate for wheels that are spinning at different rates of speed. Brake pressure is modulated by the system so that each tire spins at the same rate.

      I can trip the ABS on my Firebird at 20 MPH if I hit a rough patch of pavement while braking. I can also trip the ABS at highway speeds if I brake hard (stomp on the pedal versus squeezing it), don't modulate the pressure I apply and don't apply any steering correction. However, I've also found that I can brake harder at higher speeds while at the autocross track and the ABS won't trip; I will however feel the tires begin to skid a bit.

  12. Hey buddy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The first [system] attempts to directly detect alcohol in the driver's sweat and gear shift lever.

    Uhm, quit attempting to detect alcohol in my "gear shift lever". I've already heard THAT line fifty times tonight, queerboy.

    1. Re:Hey buddy by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great way to get head from frat boys. Especially when they already had a few drinks and the bartender refuses to give them more booze.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  13. Isn't Hand Sanitizer... by C0y0t3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...about 90% alcohol?

    The other two options sound more effective to me.

    1. Re:Isn't Hand Sanitizer... by shawb · · Score: 1

      It's about 90% isopropyl alcohol, not ethanol. I assume it's not that trivial for a device to detect only ethanol.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    2. Re:Isn't Hand Sanitizer... by edschurr · · Score: 1

      That stuff seems to evaporate quickly.

    3. Re:Isn't Hand Sanitizer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's about 90% isopropyl alcohol, not ethanol. I assume it's not that trivial for a device to detect only ethanol.

      Bad assumption. See here too.

      One major problem with older breathalyzers is non-specificity: the machines not only identify the ethyl alcohol (or ethanol) found in alcohol beverages, but also other substances similar in molecular structure or reactivity.

      It would be trivial for a chemist with the right tools. For an unedumacated cop with any tools... not so.

  14. Yes and no by sqrt(2) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anything that takes away functionality like the alcohol detecting system or software locks that limit horsepower or top speed based on car model are bad in my opinion. It seems like a perfect example of (mis)applying technology to solve a social problem. The second system mentioned seems like a good idea because you're providing the driver with useful information, I would prefer maybe an audio alert to the potential strangulation by my seatbelt, but that's just me. And car makers better have the sense to make this easy to disable should it become common place.

    Maybe I should just get into restoring cars that were made before the integration of microprocessors :)

    --
    If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    1. Re:Yes and no by yanyan · · Score: 1

      Not only that, this completely gets in the way of that little thing called natural selection. ;-p

    2. Re:Yes and no by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not necessarily... Drunks seem to disproportionately survive thier wrecks while 'selecting' out potentially productive members of society instead.

    3. Re:Yes and no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the world has alcohol in it, therefore those able to handle alcohol and survive crashes are more fit.

    4. Re:Yes and no by Blkdeath · · Score: 1

      Anything that takes away functionality like the alcohol detecting system or software locks that limit horsepower or top speed based on car model are bad in my opinion.

      Oh, so cars in Canada should be able to travel at more than twice the maximum posted speed limit of any road in the country? Why should people be able to travel at 160+ KPH when the maximum legal speed on any roadway is 100KPH?

      For the record, at 49KPH or greater above the posted limit there is no set fine. It's automatic impound of your vehicle and mandatory court appearance. Penalty (dollar figure fine, points against your license, and possibly jail time) to be determined by the judge. The electronic governors on cars sold in this country allow you to do 11KPH over and above this legal limitation. Sounds pretty generous to me.

      BTW - can you comprehend the amount of collateral damage that'll be done by a 3000LB+ vehicle after an impact at 200KPH (125MPH)?

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    5. Re:Yes and no by domatic · · Score: 1

      A drunk is apt to be in a state I can only describe as "loose and relaxed". When faced with high mechanical energy, the human body tends to fare better if it acts more like a ragdoll and less like a rigid board. Think about what you'd do if sober and driving at night when all of the sudden a pair of headlights is coming at you VERY quickly. More than likely, you'll tense up and this seems to magnify the injuries you are about to receive. The drunk behind those headlights on the other hand.......

  15. Uh........Moderators!?!?!?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that this would be an incredible time to mod the parent UPPITY.

  16. Shit... by EK103 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I used rubbing alcohol to clean my gear shift

    1. Re:Shit... by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a good time.

      Sam

  17. This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by Dr_Marvin_Monroe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't want to encourage drunk driving, but I don't see it as the car manufacturer's responsibility to put this equipment in the car. I certainly don't want that equipment on my car (either at extra cost to me or not), and would view any car with it as being "less" of a product that I might want to buy. Put short, I wouldn't purchase such a vehicle. Period.

    In addition, as the auto manufacturers start trying to determine if the driver is drunk or not, this might put them at a legal risk for any false positives or negatives. IANAL, but I'm assuming that the manufacturers of those breath analysis devices that the court forces convicted drunks to put on their cars are somehow indemnified or otherwise held blameless should the user find some way to defeat them. Because this is something ordered by the court, they may be exempt from legal liability. I'm not convinced that any car manufacturer would be so lucky if they start putting them on "production" vehicles. There are plenty of hungry lawyers ready to start some type of class-action suit on behalf of injured third parties. To this end, I say keep up the good work lawyers, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Just another case of "more nanny state, less personal responsibility."

    1. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by kamapuaa · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If the people being injured or killed are people other than the driver, it's no longer a question of being a nanny state, or personal responsibility. It becomes a matter of public interest to stop something very dangerous - isn't that what government's for?

      You could make pretty much the exact same lunatic nanny state arguments about speed limits, or speed bumps. And there's other laws, widely accepted, which are a much stronger infringements of personal liberty - seatbelt laws, for instance. Or motorcycle helmet laws, or car safety regulations, or airbag requirements, or "lemon" laws.

      There is no fundamental right to drive drunk. If this technology can be implemented successfully, the inventors should win the Nobel prize, the Pulitzer price, and possibly a special Academy Award.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by SamP2 · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      There's a difference between risking your OWN ass and risking other people's.

      I actually think this is a better thing to enforce than, say, enforcing seat belts. Because if you don't wear a seatbelt, it's your own stupid skull that will be cracked, and if you want to take that risk, go right ahead, win the Darwin award. Of course, insurance companies should have full right to refuse compensation payments to those who didn't wear a seatbelt and then got killed/injured due to their own fault.

      But you have absolutely NO right to endanger members of the public through your actions. It is not a right, not a privilege, not a freedom, never will and never would. And any means necessary (technological, political, legal, social, economic, whatever) to prevent you from putting innocent people in danger through your actions are justified.

    3. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by node+3 · · Score: 1

      If this technology can be implemented successfully, the inventors should win the Nobel prize, the Pulitzer price, and possibly a special Academy Award. Whereas those against this type of technology are prime candidates for the Darwin Award.
    4. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by phatvw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Just another case of "more nanny state, less personal responsibility."

      By protecting stupid people (drunk drivers are more likely to kill themselves and their stupid drunk passengers than anyone else), we have a better chance of perpetuating the current class structure. We need poorly paid automatons in our society to make things work. To say otherwise is un-American.

    5. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      it's no longer a question of being a nanny state, or personal responsibility. It becomes a matter of public interest to stop something very dangerous - isn't that what government's for?

      Drivers that are dangerous (but sober) are pretty easy to spot by other drivers - the cops don't go after them because stupidity is difficult to prove.

    6. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      If the people being injured or killed are people other than the driver, it's no longer a question of being a nanny state, or personal responsibility. It becomes a matter of public interest to stop something very dangerous - isn't that what government's for?

      Yes, sir. It should get right on stopping itself immediately!

    7. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      I hope you never have any passengers when you drive. Passengers may cause distraction, and it is not your right, privilege, or freedom to get distracted while driving. Never will and never would, whatever that means. Any means necessary to stop people having passengers and thus possibly being distracted and thus possibly injuring or killing someone else is justified. Oh, wait, you mean that simply driving causes every single driver to put innocent people at risk? That should be illegal, and any means we need to use to put and end to it is justified. Oh, and you're a moron.

    8. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1
      I doubt many people would want this system in their car, I doubt many people go to the car showroom and think, hmmm, you know what I need is a car that stops my constant drunk driving.

      I be there are plenty of parents who would like to have a system like this in a car they buy for their kid tho.

    9. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Just another case of "more nanny state, less personal responsibility."

      minus the fact that this is a private corporation developing this, and not government-mandated...

    10. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by pclminion · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      There is no fundamental right to drive drunk.

      I'm sorry. I'm looking in the Constitution here for the page that says "Rights we don't have." I can't find it. Can you give me a reference?

    11. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      There is no fundamental right to drive, period. It's a privilege given to an individual by the state that can be revoked by the state. That is the basis of virtually all driving laws - from getting a driver's license in the first place to the ways it can be revoked.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by ameoba · · Score: 1

      Even among those that drive drunk, the vast majority of the time, they're driving sober. Most people don't ever do it. Because a few dipshits kill a few kids while driving, -everyone- is somehow obligated to invest in expensive electronics in their cars?

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
    13. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by DamnRogue · · Score: 1

      Yes, actually we do have a fundamental right to drive. More specifically, all rights not directly addressed in the Constitution are reserved by the people. This includes driving. However, the government does an end-run around this by saying that they can restrict who can access the public road system. Having your driver's license revoked (or not having one) does not prohibit you from driving on private property.

    14. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by Sierpinski · · Score: 1

      Yes, actually we do have a fundamental right to drive.

      Sorry, where does it say that?

      The fact that you don't need a license to drive on (your own) private property just means the traffic laws are written to account for public roadways. Is it necessary for the government to create a law that you need a license to drive on private property? No, not in my opinion, but it is still something they can (try to) control with a law. They prohibit narcotic use on private property, they prohibit murder, rape, arson, etc. on private property... see my pattern?

      In my opinion there no excuse for drunk driving, but these people who have been convicted of it 8 times and still have a license need to be stopped. Once is bad enough. Do it twice and you should never be allowed to drive anywhere in the country again. Maybe that might be a deterrant strong enough to stop some people from doing it.

      Another idea, impose an alcohol tax (I can almost hear the eyes rolling from this suggestion) that would fund free cab rides for those whose BAL are above the local legal limit. Obviously there are kinks in the idea, ie getting drunk for the purposes of getting a free ride home...

      I don't think that it should rest on the bartender's shoulders to determine if someone is too drunk to drive, but there needs to be some mechanism in place to keep people from getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk.

    15. Re:This looks like a legal nightmare to me.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      More specifically, all rights not directly addressed in the Constitution are reserved by the people.

      You missed a little something here:

      The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people

      Specifically, you missed the part about the "States". Look at your driver's license (if you have one). It comes from the STATE you live in. It's not federal (yet).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  18. hmmm by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

    Isn't it just like automobile manufacturers to include new and novel safety features and governments say "OOOO! Let's make all our cars have that!". Hasn't that been the case with first seat belts, then airbags, then ABS, then traction control, then side-curtain airbags, now this crap. You can't get a new imported car street legal in the United States anymore without having all this unnecessary junk installed first. I'll just stick with my seat belts and airbags. If you're not a dupe behind the wheel, most of these "safety features" will go unused.

    Accident avoidance is all up to the driver and it is their responsibility to know whether they are "good to drive" or not. This gadget seems to me to be an in for Big Brother to tell me when I can and can't drive. On a hot sunny day, my hands are going to sweat profusely. Will that cause me to not make it to work on time? I serve alcoholic beverages to people and then give them a safe ride home as a DD. Does that mean that my passengers will have to drive themselves home because I may smell of alcohol? This system undoubtedly has its flaws. I'm just waiting for some government stooge to make it mandatory.

    --
    The game.
  19. Drowsy Driving by DTemp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is probably more useful for tired drivers than drunk drivers, as more people drive tired than drunk.

    The other day, I was traveling down I-90 in Mass and I was pretty tired. At point point I think I closed my eyes for around 5-10 seconds, and snapped out of it and was half-way into the next lane. I stopped, got out and stretched, and finished my drive with the windows down (which did a good job of keeping me awake). Ok, sure, I *shouldn't have been driving in the first place*, but if the automatic system would have snapped me out of it when it saw me going into the next lane, or saw my eyes closed, that would have been a big help.

    1. Re:Drowsy Driving by Renraku · · Score: 1

      $2000 of help? When you could have just planned ahead? Will you EVER spend $2000 in coffee to keep you awake on long road trips?

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    2. Re:Drowsy Driving by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Well, that's like, what, 20 cups of starbucks coffee? seems like you could reach that pretty easily in a lifetime...

    3. Re:Drowsy Driving by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      Citroen has this system already in production cars. Note, that it is not even the top-of-the-line car, just the mid-sized model. I think this system will be the first of the technologies mentioned here to become standardized. There also exists a system that measures the blinking of your eyes, probably by Mercedes, not sure.

      It was probably top gear who once tested the difference in drunk and tired driving on an oval test track. In that case, driving drunk still managed to keep lanes, but driving tired really had the guy swoop around lanes. This doesn't mean that drunk driving is better, being drunk you can concentrate on slow changes, and therefore drive straight and easy curves quite well, but as soon as something unexpected shows up (you're not alone on the street, you know), you don't have the reaction speed required to avoid an accident. But still it showed very well how dangerous tired driving is, many bus and truck accidents by drivers who didn't take enough stops will tell you the same. This week, here in Germany a 20-something couple was found in the bushes at the side of the autobahn after they had lost track on the completely empty road, driving a 4 hour distance after a party at 3 am. Because of the bushes, it took a week to find them, and since it happened in the early morning no-one saw it happening. I think everyone has drowsed away at the steering wheel at some point, me included, and everyone realizes the dangers.

      As for the alcohol measurement (we had an article on exactly the same subject a few months ago, but it was Toyota then if I remember correctly), it might be indeed problematic and too invasive, difficult to accept socially. I guess lease and rental cars might get it, but they have the support infrastructure to cope with unwanted motor-locking caused by this system in special occasions.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    4. Re:Drowsy Driving by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      Addendum: a nice youtube video on the drive lane system by volvo=

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsIdYUIHp0

      Notice that they mention that it doesn't work in fog or on snowy roads! As others mentioned here, that makes it actually a higher danger for those who will solely rely on the system (as anyone will do after using it for a while).

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    5. Re:Drowsy Driving by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      You are right in that you shouldn't have been driving in the first place, and you should have been arrested for driving while impaired. I'm just glad you didn't kill anyone.

    6. Re:Drowsy Driving by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Relax - while I'm sure you've never done it I'm guessing that 80% of the driving public has driven impaired in some way. Sure, it is VERY dangerous. The problem is that there isn't a practical solution at this point. Sure, you can just say "well, get more sleep" - but lots of things contribute to tiredness beyond lack of sleep. And as a society we've created a culture that frowns upon getting 8+ hours of sleep every night.

      If one is looking for a technical solution a better one might be self-piloted cars, personal rapid transit, or some other system that takes human drivers out of the loop. Such a system would solve a lot of other problems as well (road congestion, parking, cheap transit for those who can't afford cars, almost all car accidents (assuming complete enforcement of maintenance - something achievable when the cars are computer-controlled), etc).

      Simply throwing the book at anybody caught doing something that 80% of the population does is going to be about as effective as passing a death-penalty speeding law.

    7. Re:Drowsy Driving by pclminion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is this kind of lapse so much more socially acceptable than driving while intoxicated? Come on people, spell it out for me.

      Most people I know would admit to driving while tired/falling asleep. And yet nobody would admit to driving drunk, even if they've done it.

    8. Re:Drowsy Driving by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Meh, I'm overly sensitive to the subject, and no I do NOT drive while sleepy or otherwise impaired because of that. I lost a good friend because the asshat in the other lane dozed off and ran headfirst into his car. It's a very serious thing and they DO need to crack down more on it. I'd love to see some of the millions spent on anti DUI advertising spent on making people more aware of how dangerous (and illegal) driving under ANY kind of impairment is.

    9. Re:Drowsy Driving by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      My point is that spending millions of dollars throwing people in jail for driving drowsy is unlikely to put much of a dent in the problem. Sure, it is both dangerous and illegal - the problem is that most of the people doing it don't see much of an alternative. Some people work multiple jobs and are tired pretty-much around the clock - the only way you're going to get them off the roads is by putting them in prison. There are quite a few of them around - and it is unlikely you'll be able to jail all of them. It is also very difficult to enforce - there is no breathalyzer for tiredness, and most likely those drowsy drivers would snap to attention if pulled over by an officer.

      The only way to get rid of impaired drivers is by getting rid of drivers entirely! Anything else amounts to a feel-good measure - you can throw lots of people in jail but it won't fix the problem.

  20. Easy method to beat this.. by mulvane · · Score: 1

    Gloves

  21. Practical Joke by pthor1231 · · Score: 1

    As a practical joke, take a picture from the eye sensing camera's POV with someone in the drivers seat and eyes closed, then tape it over the camera eyehole. Constantly cinching seatbelt!

    1. Re:Practical Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wouldn't that blind the camera due to lack of light? That also raises the question of how this thing is supposed to see your eyes at night when its dark and you're actually likely to be drowsy.

    2. Re:Practical Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most ccd's are actually more sensitive to IR the visible. Only via filters does this get avoided-- so you just dont put in the filter and have a weak ir illuminator.

  22. What if... by gjyoung · · Score: 0

    someone cleans their hand with those alcohol based hand sanitizers before hand?

    1. Re:What if... by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 1

      someone cleans their hand with those alcohol based hand sanitizers before hand?


      The car will not allow the sanitizer to evaporate.
    2. Re:What if... by groove333 · · Score: 1

      Hand sanitizers do bring up a valid concern. I drive a company vehicle. I use a hand sanitizer on a frequent basis. After I pump gas, after i was just in a clients home, who had a nasty keyboard. If my company decided to switch to a vehicle with these 'features'. It would be a hindrance. I know that the sanitizers evaporate rather quickly, but how long would it disable the vehicle if detected?

  23. #2 maybe, #1 and #3, not so much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i like the idea of snapping the seat belt if you seem to be drowsy, provided the threshold is set high enough that it really makes you say 'wow. i really am falling asleep here' and scares you that way, rather than happening over and over when you're slightly tired but still alert enough to drive, desensitizing you to it. of course like any system, you should be able to turn it off.

    idea #1 is just going to be a stupid annoyance if you've had a drink, and have a false reading, where it won't let you start the car. and on the flip side, people will be a lot more likely to try and drive regardless of how much they've drank, and if the system says they're fine, then assume everything must be okay. i can see the jokes now.. having several beers before heading out and saying 'oh man we had better get going before we can't start the car any more!'. when you implement technological solutions to social problems, people generally stop thinking about the ramifications of what they're going to do, because if the system lets them do it, it must be alright!

    idea #3 is also going to be nothing but an annoyance. frankly i swerve a lot more if i'm stone cold sober and therefore driving competently (you know, going around cars that are parking, double parked, turning, sticking out into an intersection, over in your half of the road so you have to play chicken, etc). if i've had a few beers, i'll drive what the speed limit sign says (rather than adding the "massachusetts 15"), and generally yield to people doing the aforementioned things.

    any system in a car should be there to assist me, not hinder me, regardless of what i want to do (that's why i'm buying the car, you know). there are always going to be cases where people are willing to take the consequences of possibly breaking the law because they have an overriding reason. if a system wants to inform me of something so that i'm aware of it and can make better decisions, great. a system that actively prevents me from doing what i wish would obviously not survive in a true free market, and is therefore immoral.

  24. A new defense? by weak* · · Score: 5, Funny

    What do you mean occifer? My car says I'm sotally tober.

    --
    The Schwartz space ain't from Spaceballs.
    1. Re:A new defense? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean occifer? My car says I'm sotally tober. Damn. I must still be drunk. I can't figure out why your comment is modded funny.
  25. In a straight line, eh? by bluemonq · · Score: 2, Funny

    So I guess if you're going to drive drunk in a Nissan equipped with one of these systems, don't travel anywhere with curves?

  26. I used to like Nissan... by LinDVD · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...until I found out how much of a bad corporate citizen they actually are. I will never buy a Nissan or Infiniti vehicle because of this incident http://www.nissan.com/Digest/The_Story.php, nor will I recommend Nissan/Infiniti to any of my close circle of friends.

    --
    Just because you get modded "insightful" on Slashdot doesn't mean you actually are in real life.
    1. Re:I used to like Nissan... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      while that guy may be right, he uses cheap propaganda like "nissan motor's french connection" and u.s. flags everywhere he can put them.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    2. Re:I used to like Nissan... by modecx · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's more than a little fucked up. I'm sorry to hear this, I've always kind of admired Datsun/Nissan for some reason.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    3. Re:I used to like Nissan... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      It's also not entirely true. Nissan marketed its cars in the US under the Datsun name, that's true. However, the Nissan company name has existed since 1934 and has been used in an official capacity in the United States since 1959, long before this Mr. Nissan entered the automobile industry with his family-named business.

      It's certainly unfortunate that someone's family name interferes with a service mark, but this has been well established with other companies--Ford, Dodge, Chrysler, and so on. Mr. Nissan may not have been aware of the prior connection and the court has tried to be as sympathetic as possible to the fact that he was only using his own name for his own business.

      As for the "mysterious change to 1994"--that is clearly explained as moving from a local market, where Nissan might have been permitted to use his company name without tremendously interfering with Nissan Motor, to an international market (the Internet), where Nissan Motor was unquestionably the owner of the service marks. Mr. Nissan skipped by with squatters' rights, but the domain association and bulk of mindshare belongs to Nissan Motors. The case would be like demanding that GMail change its name worldwide. A company in one US state with a conflict probably wouldn't even carry enough weight to get the US name changed.

  27. problem in kenya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my history teacher used to tell us about an old joke in kenya. when you see someone driving straight, you know he is drunk, because sober people swerve to get around the potholes.

  28. Learner Drivers by CodyRazor · · Score: 0

    It is inevitable this will turn into a system that disables the car completely, and alerts the police. How many learner drivers are going to be ID'd as drunk? here in australia you see learners all the time doing exactly what they discribed, meandering all over the road, braking and accelerating too quickly, etc. etc. And if you put a special mode in to avoid this people would just activate it when they are drunk. Or what about an emergency? What if you've been drinking a bit but need to get to the cops to tell them the terrorists have taken over then building? Or if your in a remote rural area and need to get soemone to the hospital? using technology in this way is very near sighted.

    --
    So Skulldilocks threw acid on the schoolchildrens' faces, cause somebody from the bible told her to do it!
  29. I have magical powers by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    I can drop a single drop of alcohol on your gear lever, and your car won't run for hours never mind what you do.

    Enjoy.

  30. I don't want... by rob1980 · · Score: 1

    My car deciding to tighten up the seat belt on me like that. I just see bad things happening.

  31. Technology and the future by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    You know, these kind of things seem inevitable in our future. Dogooders will always attempt to do good, which often requires stopping stupid people. Unfortunately, dogooders are often non confrontational, and will always prefer a technological, blanket solution - because lets face it, what can be an easier way to stop drunk driving that having the car tell if you're drunk and just not letting you drive. But I just can't see these things ultimately turning out to be good: sooner or later their will be no more drunk drivers, pedophiles, pirates, etc. and then what? Maybe I'm just to cynical, but I don't think it's going to be a rosy world of freedom and peace then.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  32. Now they just need to add a detector... by bob8766 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    for drivers yakking away on their cell phone instead of watching the road.

    1. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the driving patterns of the drunk driver and cell phone user seem the same to me so maybe the same system

    2. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      for drivers yakking away on their cell phone instead of watching the road.

      That's easy to do. Mobile phones can be detected with devices which are trivial to build. The phone system can tell you when every phone was on a call.

      It should be a standard part of accident investigation. Get a chart of time on calls and correlate it with the time of the crash.

    3. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Well, they need some kind of system to tell you when it's the kids screaming in the backseat or the co-worker deciding to pull a 'prank' or whatever else passengers do that cause accidents. I've known more people that have gotten in accidents either because of their own passenger or someone else's than any other cause, weather and drunks included... if we're going to look into cell phone usage, we better explore this area, too. Studies have shown that conversations are equally distracting with the person in the next/back seat as with a person on the other end of the phone. Look, people...do you REALLY want to make things safe? REALLY? Do you understand how incredibly annoying the world is going to be when EVERYTHING is 'safe' and controlled by tech? Bust out the plastic bubbles, we need to make sure no one ever stubs a toe.

    4. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by alan.briolat · · Score: 1

      There is something much more dangerous than people talking on their cell phones, and I find it disturbing that people can even consider the possibility of doing it - texting while driving. Thats right, an activity which generally requires noticable periods of time looking at your phone, not at the road. I've witnessed this twice recently. Once was just an annoyance to everyone else (they were in a queue of traffic stopped at a red light, the lights changed, everyone moved, but they did not for about 30 seconds). The other was also at a crossroads, but in this instance they drifted across a red light at about 10mph staring at their phone (down near their lap).

      Come on, if its that damn important, PULL OVER ALREADY! Sure, I couldn't actually give a shit if they died because of it, stupidity removing itself and all that, but unfortunately such an event usually injures more than just themselves...

      --
      I swear we should be allowed to give mod points to sigs... "-1, Offtopic"
    5. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Well, cell phones would be a great place to start. It's pretty rare to see someone driving erratically because of kids in the backseat, passengers in the car, or pranks by coworkers but I see people driving poorly due to cell phones every time I go out. Driving while on a cell phone is hazard and should be banned, period.

    6. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by Samah · · Score: 1

      > Driving while on a cell phone is hazard and should be banned, period.
      It is in Australia, unless you have a hands-free system installed.

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
    7. Re:Now they just need to add a detector... by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a couple fighting or making out in the car...or parents reaching in to the backseat while driving to smack kids or find the juice box or whatever. I agree that phone use can be distracting, but not more than any other conversation one is having. One bonus is that one never need look at the person one is speaking to on a cellular phone. This is something people do in cars very frequently. I didn't notice how often I was doing it until I started watching for it.

  33. I have a great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of promoting personal responsibility, let's make it easier for drunks to get behind the wheel of a car. That's a great idea right? Guys? Why is everybody leaving?

  34. I can only imagine... by darketernal · · Score: 1

    ... how fun it was for the engineers to do testing on this contraption.

  35. Test it on Ted Kennedy by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    and if its good enough for senators, then its good enough for civilians.

    1. Re:Test it on Ted Kennedy by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 1

      Ted Kennedy would blow out the sensors. It'd be like trying to measure the current coming out of a nuclear reactor with a Simpson 260 multimeter.

      --
      I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
  36. Nice idea but... by amccaf1 · · Score: 1
    Okay, first of all, I am strongly against drunk driving. To the people commenting on how they would like a system to tell them when they are drunk because they don't always know whether they are over the limit, I have but one thing to say. If you honestly don't know whether you're over the limit... you're over the limit.

    Okay, so it detects that the driver is drunk. And the decision the car makes is to turn off access to the shift? Does it worry anyone out there that the car can override the driver? I mean, yes, if the driver is drunk, then probably the hunk of metal is better equipped to make decisions. But the first time this thing misfires there will be hell to pay.

    And what happens if the drunk driver decides to drive around in first gear anyway? Will the steering automatically head towards the nearest embankment in an attempt to save time?

    Also:

    A third system monitors the path of the vehicle to ensure it's traveling in a straight line and not weaving about the road, as is common with a drunken driver.
    Are people going to have to hit a button before they begin their journey to indicate either "Yeah, I might be wasted" or "No, I'm visiting my relatives and the roads out here weave all by themselves because the guy who laid the road was drunk, but that's no reason to punish me..."?
    --
    "Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"
    1. Re:Nice idea but... by piojo · · Score: 1

      To the people commenting on how they would like a system to tell them when they are drunk because they don't always know whether they are over the limit, I have but one thing to say. If you honestly don't know whether you're over the limit... you're over the limit.

      God, I hate it when people make stupid generalizations like that. If you're not sure if you're X, you're X. There are two types of people that don't know if they are X:

      • People that are full of shit and don't want to admit an unpleasant truth.
      • People that are reasonably scrupulous but, for one reason or another, don't have the objective judgement or experience to tell. I've never had a drink before driving before and I don't know how it will affect me.

      So stop thinking that there is only one type of person that claims to be unsure of themselves.
      Sorry.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    2. Re:Nice idea but... by amccaf1 · · Score: 1

      No.

      In my experience, there is only one kind of person who... oh... isn't sure if they're legally drunk or not.

      They're drunk.

      And, I'm sorry, the two cases you make:

      > People that are full of shit and don't want to admit an unpleasant truth.

      The unpleasant truth is... they're drunk. And should not be driving that night.

      > People that are reasonably scrupulous but, for one reason or another, > don't have the objective judgement or experience to tell. I've never > had a drink before driving before and I don't know how it will affect me.

      They're drunk and should not be driving that night. And if they're genuinely unaware that they are drunk, then I feel sorry for them... but that doesn't stop them being drunk.

      Look, my only point is that if you have to sit there and think. And sit there and hmm and haw about whether you're sober or not, and think about how much food you've had to balance out the booze, and think about how much time has passed, and how much booze you've consumed in a certain time frame...

      ...then stop. Just think about how much easier it would be to call a friend. Call a cab. Just... don't... drive.

      Just spend the mental cycles you were going to spend on figuring out your sobriety on something more geeky instead and just take a cab.

      --
      "Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"
    3. Re:Nice idea but... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      If you honestly don't know whether you're over the limit... you're over the limit.

      Rubbish. If you have a high tolerance for alcohol, it's easy to be over the limit without realising it. Not everyone is tipsy after a couple of beers.

      Further, being "legal" is not a guarantee, either. I know many people whose physical and mental abilities are noticably and quickly impacted after relatively tiny amounts of alcohol (a single glass of wine) that would not put them over the legal limit (0.05 in Australia).

  37. Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by Shihar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally, I think that the alcohol detection systems are probably junk. Short of it being installed on a company vehicles (FedEx?) or as some punishment for a DUI, I don't really see the point. Even than, I doubt many shipping companies have alcohol problems so bad that it justifies such silly expenditures. It is pretty easy to tell if you are too drunk to drive, you don't need your car to tell you for you. Besides, a simple pair of gloves will happily void this system, while splashing alcohol on the steering wheel is a great way to piss off your friends.

    On the other hand, the sleep detection system would be a godsend. If the price was right, I would happily get one of those things installed. I don't want it turning off my car in the middle of the highway, but tightening my seatbelt, beeping, or in some way warning me that I look like I am nodding off would be wonderful. Obviously, you would want a way to turn off the damn thing so that it doesn't confuse bobbing your head along to music with falling asleep, but so long as you can turn the thing off and it is relatively cheap, I think lots of people would go for it and get it installed voluntarily.

    1. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or in some way warning me that I look like I am nodding off would be wonderful. Why the fuck are you out driving when this is even possible?

      If you're that tired, don't drive you morons!
    2. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, the sleep detection system would be a godsend. If the price was right, I would happily get one of those things installed. I don't want it turning off my car in the middle of the highway, but tightening my seatbelt, beeping, or in some way warning me that I look like I am nodding off would be wonderful.

      How precisely will that help? I mean really, you don't already know you are driving impaired (too tired)?
    3. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. You feel tired but think you can stay awake, until you black out for a second and crash into something. Yes, the sensible thing to do is not to drive if you feel tired at all, but that's *ridiculous*. People aren't going to do it, they need to get places when they're tired.

      And the point of the system isn't to warn you that you're tired, it's to warn you that you're about to do one of those one second black-outs, and snap you awake.

    4. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by tiananmen+tank+man · · Score: 1

      It is pretty easy to tell if you are too drunk to drive


      One of the first things affected by alcohol is your judgement.
    5. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by awtbfb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, the sleep detection system would be a godsend. If the price was right, I would happily get one of those things installed.
      This exists for truck drivers. I don't know what the price is for regular consumers, but these units have been on the market for a few years. The nice thing about this system is that it warns you about being tired before you start weaving all over the road. The lead time gives you a chance to find a place to rest. The system also lets you see your drowsiness build up so you can take a break before things get bad.

      Disclaimer: I was involved in a university research project that led to the product. I have no involvement in the company. And yes, drowsy drivers can and do travel the length of a football field with their eyes closed.
    6. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by DiscipleN2k · · Score: 1

      This system would have been a tremendous help during one drive where I knew I was too tired to drive anymore, had planned in an extra fifteen minutes into the trip to pull over and rest because I always got drowsy on this drive, but was unable to pull over because there was no shoulder to pull onto. Within a few seconds of me realizing I needed to pull over and looking for a place to do so, I blacked out and woke up just a few feet short of plowing through a guardrail on a bridge doing 80 MPH (actually took out one of the plastic reflectors that they stick in the ground in front of the guardrail). Needless to day, that woke me up enough to make the rest of the trip without having to pull over. Had I woken up a second later, I could have been killed. Had I been woken up by something like this, I could have avoided the incident all together.

    7. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's actually the danger I see in this thing: If you think that you won't fall asleep 'cause there's still your "warning bell", you might start driving when you're already in a state where you shouldn't.

      ABS, traction control and a few other goodies supposed to make driving safer had similar effects for some people. I've seen people drive on icy roads like crazy, 'cause "hey, I have ABS, I can still break without a problem".

      You have, funny enough, the same attitude with antivirus tools. "I can click on it and risk it, I got an AV kit".

      It can increase security. But only if you act as if it wasn't there and don't rely on it. Technology cannot and must not replace carefulness.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Wake Me Up When Its Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen people drive on icy roads like crazy, 'cause "hey, I have ABS, I can still break without a problem".
      Damn. I wish ABS was that magical. Sure I can still steer, but I can't stop in time! Sometimes I'm left with the handbrake for a quick slowdown and then the pedal to straighten out again.
  38. legal eagles by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    I the problems i see is not with the technology but with the moron lawyers, who will no doubt be rubbing their hands together at this news.

    this system will no doubt require all 3 matches to slow the car and warn you that you might be in danger. weaving, plus eye movement and alcohol in your sweat no doubt indicates your. it won't just stop the car if you use hand wipes, all you geniuses spouting that are full of it.

    the problem will start when some fucking moron manages to fool the system and has a crash anyway, and will use our current "don't blame me i'm the victim" culture to sue.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  39. lol what? by xous · · Score: 1

    I'd cut out a seat belt that randomly tried to strangle me. I don't think it would take long for anyone to figure out that s pair of gloves would defeat sensing for alcohol in sweat. When I go drunk driving, I'm really hammered* -- it takes me a few minutes to get the car turned on, but I still don't swerve all over the bloody place. Who does that? The whole idea fails because most people would buy the bloody car in the first place. Second, it would probably take a small amount of effort to fully remove the restraints instead of avoiding them. * Most of a 66oz bottle of whiskey.

    1. Re:lol what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really hammered (Most of a 66oz bottle of whiskey) pussy
    2. Re:lol what? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      I hope you're joking, otherwise you are really selfish!

    3. Re:lol what? by xous · · Score: 1

      Not joking. Did that few weeks back -- I even went through the Mc Donalds drive-thru on the way home. Has anyone else noticed that people tend to almost deliberately do stupid shit when your drunking?

  40. Confiscate and sell the vehicle by cpirate · · Score: 1

    Treat drunk driving like a drug offense, confiscate the vehicle they are driving and sell it at police auction.

    1. Re:Confiscate and sell the vehicle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in the USA we have something called DUE PROCESS that says you cannot deny someone life, liberty, or property without a hearing, and most definitely cannot deprive someone of property without just compensation.

      We don't need to expand that law, as it is already cleary Unconstitutional.

    2. Re:Confiscate and sell the vehicle by Kymri · · Score: 1

      We have lots of rights. That doesn't mean there's any shortage of laws to abridge, limit, restrict, or outright deny us those rights from time to time. 'Due process' has become a good deal hazier lately.

      Also, in some jurisdictions, you can have your property seized with alarming ease, and have virtually no shot at getting it back.

      (That said, while I despise folks who drive while drunk, and think it is both a general evil to the public at large as well as fairly stupid - I don't want nannying devices in my car. There are enough moving parts and electronic devices in my existing car - that's plenty enough potential points of failure; adding in more potential points of failure that could make the car completely useless and undrivable (much less do real damage - imagine the seatbelt getting tightened too much, too hard, too fast, as just the wrong time) is just silly.)

      --
      Evolution ceases when stupidity can no longer be fatal.
    3. Re:Confiscate and sell the vehicle by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Except in the USA we have something called DUE PROCESS that says you cannot deny someone life, liberty, or property without a hearing, and most definitely cannot deprive someone of property without just compensation.

      What, are you writing from the 1800s? How did you get a computer to function back then? And why are you wasting that awesome time travel tech posting to /.?

    4. Re:Confiscate and sell the vehicle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get confiscated drugs at a Police auction? Wow. Point me in the direction of my nearest Police auction house.

  41. stop adding weight! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh great, more sensors and doodads to add weight to the car.
    More weight means less fuel economy.
    And collectively these things are really adding up (side airbags, side reinforcement, government-mandated design rules up the wazzoo, which is why all modern cars effectively look alike).

    When can we say "enough is enough with all the safety features" and start trimming weight?

  42. Fuel on your hands by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

    How many false positives do you think will be triggered from people who have just fueled the car? The more we move toward ethanol as the primary constituent of fuel, the more people are going to come into contact with it with their hands. Do you stop and wash your hands after fueling? I sure don't; gas station bathrooms are often nasty enough to make it a questionable move.

    Mal-2

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  43. Automatic Seatbelts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do the seatbelts automatically tighten if Millhouse fidgets?

  44. This is excellent by Mad-cat · · Score: 1

    Disclaimer: I am a police officer in the US state of Florida. I make a lot of DUI arrests and specialize in traffic-related crimes.

    If this works as advertised, it would be a wonderful way to deter the dangerous and all-to-common crime of DUI.

    Of all these ideas, the eye movement cameras are the strongest indicators of impairment, but sound difficult to implement correctly. Sluggish, jerky eye movement and poor tracking is the single strongest indicator of impairment I look for when evaluating whether a driver might be impaired or not. If people with these signs were told by their vehicles not to drive, it would be one of the best things that could happen to traffic.
    I'd be interested to see how the sweat sensors work out. That's not something we can conclusively detect with human senses for the purposes of courtroom testimony. No judge will allow a jury to hear an officer saying "he reeked of booze and was sweating alcohol right out of his pores."

    Making it mandatory rubs me the wrong way, but mandatory for people *convicted* of alcohol-related crimes (DUI and under-21 alcohol use might be a good step) and minor drug possession crimes could have this mandatory on their vehicles in lieu of jail time.

    People who cry fascism, just remember that DUIs don't involve police coming into your life and telling you what to do. It involves drunk people going out into the public, and recklessly endangering, maiming, and killing innocent people. Alcohol-related vehicular homicide is far, far more common than murder, but people keep acting like DUIs are "victimless crimes."
    I'll be sure to tell that to the next family of a pedestrian I scrape off the road.

    1. Re:This is excellent by jjacksonRIAB · · Score: 1, Interesting

      As far as I know they already have a breathalyser system that is installed in the vehicles of repeat offenders during some kind of probationary period, or at least they made regular use of it in Fremont County, CO.

      DUI is definitely a serious problem. I used to live in an apartment adjoining a bar parking lot, and I have had my vehicles hit 4 times in the space of a year, witnessed one drunk driver smash into 5 vehicles while attempting to escape pedestrians trying to forcibly remove him from a car, only to escape later into the neighborhood and have seen an exhorbitant number of assault cases centering around alcohol use.

      Despite being a freedom lover, for a while there it came to the point of me standing outside in the parking lot with a 12 gauge shotgun just to ensure things were going well and traffic was exiting smoothly. Sometimes I wonder if irresponsible bar owners should not also be fined for helping to create a public nuisance for not cutting the people off when they should. I can count on the fingers of my right hand the number of cabs that were called in that time I lived there, and I will never forget how disgusted I was by the level of irresponsibility people display.

      Even still, I don't think it is right that *I* should be subsidizing elimination of this behavior in terms of higher vehicle prices. I've already wasted enough time on those morons not to have to work for them as well.

      --
      Make a few bad jokes on /. and watch your karma become worthy of Hitler
    2. Re:This is excellent by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      and minor drug possession crimes could have this mandatory on their vehicles in lieu of jail time.

      This doesn't detect drugs. That's like making people go to anger management classes for writing bad checks.

      People who cry fascism, just remember that DUIs don't involve police coming into your life and telling you what to do.

      No, in this case, it's the car manufacturers...and if it becomes mandatory, the government. Of course, fascism doesn't have much to do with police, anyway.

      Alcohol-related vehicular homicide is far, far more common than murder, but people keep acting like DUIs are "victimless crimes."
      I'll be sure to tell that to the next family of a pedestrian I scrape off the road.


      Actually, DUI *is* a victimless crime. Causing an accident is almost always a crime in itself, regardless of your state of intoxication. However, simply driving while intoxicated, if you do not cause an accident, is a crime with no victim, thus the term 'victimless crime'. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think drunk driving is cool, but as a police officer you really should know this. What makes a pedestrian hit by a drunk driver more dead than one hit by a sober driver? Is someone talking on a phone instead of paying attention to the road somehow less at fault because they aren't drunk? We focus so much on DRUNK driving, but we hardly ever focus on SAFE driving. That is, we act like drunk driving is the only cause of road fatalities...when that's far from the truth. I have no statistical evidence for this, but everyone *I've* known that drives drunk is also reckless in many other ways. Who is to say if the relationship is causal? Not me.

    3. Re:This is excellent by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      A simple test of reaction time might stop some people from driving when they are way over the limit. To start the car make the driver watch for an LED to pulse on then press a button in the next (say) 400 milliseconds.

      I agree totally with your argument. A drunk driver crashed on to the footpath close to my home just a couple of months ago. Luckily no pedestrians were hurt.

      But once this type of system is implemented it will only be a matter or time before we hear the story of the drunk girl stranded half way home from a party because her car wouldn't start again who gets raped or murdered. Her fault, and that of her friends but it may not play that way in the media.

    4. Re:This is excellent by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      Right idea, but wrong measure. 400ms is way too slow to drive safely. Just yesterday I was pulling onto a road to go left, when a motorbike [who had the right of way] came along. I couldn't see him because of a hedge so I was slowly easing onto the road. The instant I saw the bike I slammed on the brakes to give him right of way. I'm sure my reaction time was well under 400ms, granted it took probably 500-600ms to actually stop though (was only going like 15km/h or so).

      If you can't hit a button within 100ms [1/10th of a second] of an LED flashing, chances are you're not alert enough to drive. Keep in mind under the best of circumstances human eye-hand timing is like 20-40ms. So really, if you're driving you should at least be able to react in 100ms to something on the road.

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    5. Re:This is excellent by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      [...] a motorbike [who had the right of way] came along. I couldn't see him because of a hedge so I was slowly easing onto the road.

      As a motorbike rider, let me say on behalf of all my peers on two wheels: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!

      As any rider can tell you, car drivers who show some situational awareness and adapt their driving style to the situation (in your case slowing down due to bad visibility) are a rare breed. I make it a habit to always make a 'Thank you' sign when one does cross my path. You guys are good to share a road with.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    6. Re:This is excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. there was this game about it and my average of simply hitting a button after seeing it blink after random(*) delay was something like 150ms. This was better than any of my friends' times and to get to that level I needed to "unlearn" processing it in brain. Good thing I don't have a car. ..or maybe I should just call BS. What do you think?

    7. Re:This is excellent by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      The museum of tech in Ottawa has such a game [or had when I was there last]. It wasn't uncommon to respond in the 40ms range. Of course in that game you are expecting it, and your finger is over the button ...

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    8. Re:This is excellent by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      Hehehe, you're welcome. It startled me a bit, but fortunately I wasn't going to fast and I found the brake pedal quickly :-) I think the driver was pleased that I stopped. Probably startled him as well since from his perspective I popped out of nowhere as well.

      I think part of the problem in that situation is people pull out too fast, even when they can't see too far down the road. In my case, I was aware of the hedge and realized that I might have to stop in a hurry. So easy does it, and I pulled onto the road slowly.

      Of course, it would also be nice if they owners of the property maintained the roadside hedges/trees so that people can actually see at least 2-3 seconds down the road... Ottawa has all sorts of corners like that. There is one in Kanata (behind the dairy queen on Hazeldean for the curious) where you basically can't see shit all until you're already in the way. In that case I look for headlights, but during the day, I just take my best look and ease out anyways, hoping they will stop. It's fucked up. Of course it's been like that for a decade and nobody has cleared the bushes yet. Stupid local government...

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    9. Re:This is excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Driving while under the influence _is_ a victimless crime. Getting into an accident while doing so is not.

    10. Re:This is excellent by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Of course the owner of the property has to maintain the hedges/trees. But since he doesn't, the rational thing is to compensate for his error and slow down (which you admirably did).

      This is one of the things we get taught in our motorcycle riding courses here in .nl: never assume that others do the right thing, always be ready to compensate for others' errors. I flunked my first exam because I pulled past a car that was cornering backwards. I had right of way according to the rules, but as my instructor rightly mentioned, what use is that if I am not seen? Of course, taking the exam with a mild flu was a bad idea to begin with ;-) (then again, since I would have been out my exam fee anyway if I had cancelled, I figured what the heck).

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  45. oh great by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    the automative clippey

  46. And the stupid live longer. by stonedcat · · Score: 0

    I just can't be ok with something that subverts natural selection.
    Laws and technology have gotten to the point where they completely harbor the likes of those who would normally off themselves in really stupid ways.

    There's nothing wrong with these folks living, don't get me wrong. The problem occurs when they breed and make stupid offspring.

    --
    You can't take the sky from me.
  47. easy workaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just fart in it's face. it'll say you're full of shit, but it will start :)

  48. There will never be self-driving cars in America by Myria · · Score: 1

    We're in an annoying period where vehicle control systems can help a bit, but aren't yet good enough to reliably drive cars automatically.

    Self-driving cars will never happen, at least not in the foreseeable future. The problem isn't that the technology and software won't be able to do it - it's that product liability will make it infeasible. No human or computer can always prevent a crash caused by another car running a red light. Yet almost certainly the computer's manufacturer would be sued in that situation, just because they have deep pockets.
    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
  49. My two cents by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    What about false positives?

    Tighten the seat belt? Wouldn't an airhorn be more effective?

    Does anyone trust a self-tightening seat belt?

    Whatever happened to people taking responsibility for drinking?

    1. Re:My two cents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone trust a self-tightening seat belt? And what, exactly, do modern seatbelts do now? My mom's Jeep Liberty tightens it when you slam on the brakes -- not just locking the seatbelt so it can't move, but actually tightens it.
    2. Re:My two cents by thebear05 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't an airhorn be more effective? You want to be driving next to someone when an air-horn goes off in their car ?
    3. Re:My two cents by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

      "If the driver is drowsy it triggers the seat belt to tighten and this movement will hopefully snap the driver out of their drowsiness or prompt them to take a rest."

      Notice the word hopefully. I figure an airhorn will be undoubtedly effective in the goal of snapping the driver out of his or her drowsiness. Well, if it doesn't startle them into an accident.

  50. I see this as a safety hazard... by DaScribbler · · Score: 1

    While I find the intent of this noble... the fundamental flaw in this whole idea is simply...the vehicle acting on its own based on finding an impaired driver behind the wheel....

    What happens when a driver has been drinking and is cruising through busy traffic? Not maintaining a strait line? Sweat detected on the gear shifter? What happens? The car puts you through a shutdown forcing you to stop? Unless the robotics are sophisticated enough to measure traffic, pull you over safely onto a shoulder which may or may not exist, this can spell disaster on the road.

    I can see it now...rush hour traffic (yes...some people DO drink midday) and the general flow of traffic on a highway or neighborhood street is flowing fast. Suddenly the car in front of you shuts down or does something unpredictable because it detected a driver may be impaired and decides to act outside of normal human behaviour and creates a pileup.

    Myself personally, I'd sooner rely on my instincts and observation to note that the car in front of me might have a drunk driver behind the wheel (which I have had the unfortunate occasion to note more than once), than have the added random factor of response due to mechanical takeover (did that make sense?).

    The only real solution is to prevent the driver from even being able to start their car before getting on the road.

  51. You could pay a driver from that .. by cheros · · Score: 1

    $2000 goes a reasonable way towards someone else doing the driving..

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  52. Comming up next... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Warning! Dangerous blood levels detected in your alcohol. Please stop the car and get some sleep.

  53. eBay needs this by oldelpaso · · Score: 1

    Alter the system so that it works with my mouse and stops me doing drunken bids on eBay, then I might be interested. *eyes pile of worthless crap in corner of room*

  54. Hygiene by mixxu · · Score: 1

    I better not clean my hands with ethanol hand towels then.

  55. The whole thing is just... by mousse-man · · Score: 1

    a technical solution to social and legal problem. Since the system can be fooled, and WILL be fooled, we need some other implements to stop drunk driving.

    The main problem here is that, obviously, revoking your driving license won't deter you from driving, and neither will these funny gadgets, fines, AA sessions or whatever.

    But there's a much simpler, and many times less intrusive way to make sure people don't drive drunk: Introduce corporal punishment. The moment motorists have a good chance to get caned for heavy traffic offenses like DUI, or repeatedly running red lights, using the cell phone without hands-free, this crap will stop. Make it mandatory, with at least 30 strikes, of somebody is badly injured because of disregard for traffic laws.

    And don't come with 'that's cruel' or 'that's inhumane'. Especially if you have people which have been sent to a wheelchair because a motorist was drunk as a skunk or thought that other traffic regulations didn't apply to him or her.

  56. No thanks, ill pass by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    I dont believe in giving up libertes for some imaginary increase in safety.

    I also dont appreciate my car spying on me. And for the record, i dont drink at all.. let alone while driving and i still think this is a bad idea.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  57. seems it'll need more than that by haaz · · Score: 1

    the idiot that tried to turn me into street pizza back in 2000 was driving very erratically, as I saw him a while before he hit me. But he was also putting that Chevy Tahoe's engine to the max, and going FAST. But speed control eliminates the whole point of having a car... the gear shift alcohol-sensing lever may fare better. Of course this is not much good if it's only in Nissans and not the billion-odd cars already in the world. (I'm really not that bitter/angry about it now, despite the tone of this post.)

    It's terribly ironic that this link/story comes just below the article entitled "Science: Brain Electrodes Help Injured Man To Speak Again." I hope none of you ever have to experience the many layers of horror for those involved in a person surviving a traumatic brain injury.

    --
    -- haaz.
    1. Re:seems it'll need more than that by karnal · · Score: 1

      Somewhat offtopic, but what happened to your story? The link on the previous /. article goes kinda nowhere.

      I remember reading it when it came out - was just curious to re-read it...

      --
      Karnal
  58. Great, install it in Ottawa! by billcopc · · Score: 1

    I'm particularly excited about the swerving detection... that alone would eliminate 90% of SOBER drivers in my city.

    How about a camera that can tell if the driver is a half-brained preppie trying to simultaneously talk on their Blackberry, do their makeup/shave, and is about to make a left turn from the right lane. It would be nice if the sensor could then activate a dash-mounted AK-47, but I'd settle for a wireless warning to nearby drivers. I can shoot the bastard myself.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  59. Re:There will never be self-driving cars in Americ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet almost certainly the computer's manufacturer would be sued in that situation, just because they have deep pockets.

    That just means they won't be sold in the US. Won't stop anyone else buying them.

    It's been 11 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment. Chances are, you're behind a firewall or proxy, or clicked the Back button to accidentally reuse a form.


    No, I did not click the Back Button. Yes, I am behind a firewall. No, that did not accelerate my reactions to the superhuman speed enabling me to post within 11 minutes. WTF is wrong with the people behind this site that they write such stupid gibberish? Shouldn't this have been fixed about a hundred years ago?
  60. How quickly does topical alcohol evaporate? by tepples · · Score: 1

    No, alcohol from a hand sanitizer evaporates But does topical alcohol evaporate quickly enough that this system can distinguish it from the alcohol from within?
    1. Re:How quickly does topical alcohol evaporate? by Phil+the+Canuck · · Score: 1

      Why would you be using hand sanitizer while driving? Shouldn't at least one of those hands be on the wheel?

  61. A technical solution by houghi · · Score: 1

    to a social problem. I see no way of this failing. :-/

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  62. Accurate... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    "...they're no longer accurate above about 0.20

    And this new Nissan system will be? I can't imagine sweat sensors can be more accurate than breath. Some people sweat more, it varies with the weather, etc., etc.

    Besides, I'm sure the real drunks will figure out how to change gear with a kleenex or something.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Accurate... by Mike89 · · Score: 1

      And this new Nissan system will be?
      Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it would be. I was sort of straying offtopic.
    2. Re:Accurate... by pentalive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Besides, I'm sure the real drunks will figure out how to change gear with a kleenex or something. Fine leather driving gloves.

  63. Alcohol-containing oral rinse solutions? by wikinerd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would this system work with people who regularly use lots of alcohol-containing oral rinses?

    1. Re:Alcohol-containing oral rinse solutions? by patman600 · · Score: 1

      Probably. The alcohol goes away very quickly. Residue on the hands should evaporate, and it goes from the mouth quicker than you might think, about 5 minutes. http://www.cockeyed.com/science/breathalyzer/breat halyser03.shtml

  64. Re:GREAT IDEA! by JimDaGeek · · Score: 1

    Tee-hee, you are funny, OMG! LOL! Hey text me like NOW! Tee-Hee.

    --
    General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
  65. Hey Nissan... by drewkinney · · Score: 1

    How does this stop Lindsey Lohan?

  66. I, for one by tenco · · Score: 1

    welcome our new belt slapping^Wstrapping^Wtightening overlords.

  67. Re:There will never be self-driving cars in Americ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But if all cars were computer-driven, you wouldn't have any running red lights.

    At least in a perfect world with perfect programming you wouldn't.

  68. Where's the smart car? by eean · · Score: 1

    So Nissan plans to role this stuff out by 2015. So thats only 8 years away, but 2015 still sounds awfully like the "future" to me. Since it appears that we're not going to get flying-conversions for our cars any time soon, can't we at least have smart cars and smart highways? Why do people still have to drive their cars? Is this the 21st century or not?

  69. Re:There will never be self-driving cars in Americ by the.house · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately the fully autonomous bar is more probable than the fully autonomous car. Mostly for this reason.

  70. I got you all beat by markov_chain · · Score: 1

    I bought an automatic!

    *rimshot*

    --
    Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
  71. Dislike and Like by idiotnot · · Score: 1

    Dislike: It's just another example of trying to exchange annoyingly imperfect technology for imperfect human judgment. "It looks like you're trying to drive plastered! Would you like to: a) get out and try again later, b) go to the passenger seat and sleep it off, or c) have my onboard navigations and communications system tip off the authorities of your route?"

    Like: Nissan Altima drivers are the worst on the roads when they're sober. Keeping them from driving drunk might help save others' lives.

  72. Rather by jkiol · · Score: 1

    Rather than all this fancy seatbelt tightening and stuff, just use the alcohol dectection to not allow the seat belt to buckle. This way if they do get into an accident we are sure they will not be the ones surviving.

  73. Weaving by wytcld · · Score: 1

    A third system monitors the path of the vehicle to ensure it's traveling in a straight line and not weaving about the road, as is common with a drunken driver.
    The first thing I learned in drivers ed, from a moonlighting hip musician who presumably knew a thing about driving influenced, is to always keep the eyes focused well-ahead on the road. It works. You weave when you make the mistake of looking at the road too-close ahead of the car. When you look far ahead instead, your steering will not weave no matter how tired or otherwise impaired you are. You're also more likely to see stuff in time to react to it. Speed traps for instance.
    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  74. I'm with the Hyperbole Police by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when this is even possible?

    Aside from issues with your use of hyperbole (which I hope it is), I would like to defend the parent and perhaps shed some light on the actions and decisions of those fully participating in society.

    Sometimes when you're a grown-up, you perform certain actions that have an inherent risk. In fact, most of the actions you perform have some level of inherent risk, e.g. eating at a sit-down restaurant can lead to food poisoning, eating at McDonald's can lead to shame and indigestion, et al. Part of being a grown-up though is making responsible risk/benefit analysis about these decisions. Usually this means that you don't have to even consider the possibility (although real) of food poisoning from your favorite restaurant, unless there has been a spate of recent incidences that you are aware of.

    When it comes to driving, we have to assess inherent risks due to a variety of factors including but not limited to:

    1) The mechanical condition of our car, i.e. how certain our we that are brakes are good and will respond as we expect when we need them to, and also, the condition of our tires and are we going to be driving in conditions where a tire blowout would threaten our life, or the lives of others around us, etc.

    2) The weather conditions, i.e. how less competent of a driver are we in heavy rain, or when the roads are icy, or when visibility is very low (fog)

    3) Our physical/mental conditon, i.e. are we incredibly angry about something (we usually make poorer judgments when we are), or are we tired? and how tired are we (could be just a little bodily tired from a good physical workout, or could be that we're drowsy due to lack of sleep), etc.

    In combination with all these inherent risks we weigh the benefits of the drive:

    Are we returning home from a long absence to those who are worried about, and are deeply missing us? Or perhaps we are just going out for a drive because we have nothing better to do(people who don't know about /. still do this, I've heard). Or, as an extreme example, we're rushing a loved one to the hospital, where every minute counts towards saving their life

    In the end, almost every mature adult consciously, or unconsciously, makes this risk/benefit assessment before driving, and very few let their decision to drive be governed absolutely by any criteria about the circumstances of themselves their vehicle, or their environment.
    --
    Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  75. Just fucking great. by pclminion · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Now drunks will have yet ANOTHER excuse why it wasn't "their fault" when they mow over a minivan full of 6th graders.

    "The car wasn't supposed to let me drive! It let me drive so I figured I was okay! Not my fault!"

    How about we take some fucking RESPONSIBILITY for our actions, eh?

  76. Biofuels... by BlueParrot · · Score: 1

    If we are to switch to CO2 neutral biofuels, ethanol will very possibly be used as fuel in the future. I can't possibly see how that would cause a problem ...

  77. Way to hide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A third system monitors the path of the vehicle to ensure it's traveling in a straight line and not weaving about the road, as is common with a drunken driver
    Of the drunk drivers that get caught *before* crashing the car, the majority of those are caught because of their erratic driving style.

    So, now along comes a car that eliminates (or, at least, reduces) that, making the drunk driver look more like the other responsible drivers on the road.

    Seems like a winner to me. Not.

    Sure, a number of people who don't realize they're over the limit will do the right thing, but there's a (minority?) group who will use this to their own selfish advantage, exploiting the fact that it lets them drive with less chance of getting pulled over. The more these guys are on the road, the more likely the are to have an accident.

  78. Drink Drivers by photomonkey · · Score: 1

    Here in Arizona, drunk driving is a pretty severe offense. I myself have never been arrested or convicted, but I know people who have. They're high-level misdemeanors at best, and felonies at worst.

    Aside from the mark on the record, even pleading guilty and not hiring a lawyer will run you a few large. Bring lawyers into it, and you could see a bill for $5,000 or more, win or lose.

    If you are convicted, you lose your license for 90 days, and have to spend not less than 24 hours and not more than 10 days in jail. Depending on some factors, a provisional 'work only' license may be issued.

    DUI is a serious offense, don't get me wrong. It can cause all kinds of problems for the driver and other motorists and pedestrians. But I'm not sure why we don't spend as many resources preventing it as we do punishing it.

    Also, if DUI is so dangerous (which I agree that it is), why not make red-light and stop sign running a similar offense? A friend of mine was killed last year while crossing at a crosswalk because some jerk-off ran a stop sign. He was cited for failure to stop at a stop sign.

    Studies have repeatedly shown that talking on a cell phone while driving approximates the impairment level of a person past the legal limit for alcohol.

    So why not start cracking down on ALL drivers who, through negligence or poor decisions, put others at risk? Why not either require all cars to have Interlock devices (sure, they can be beaten, but that justifies higher penalties for doing so), and/or make the law zero tolerance?

    Unfortunately, I can only surmise that the reason things are the way they are regarding DUI here is because it's a slam-dunk, high-dollar case for the courts generating healthy city income. People would complain too much about having to put down their cell phones, and would cry about civil liberties with mandatory intoxalyzers in the car (despite that most states in the US make you sign a waiver giving up certain search and seizure laws upon getting a driver license).

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  79. smart cars by nefarity · · Score: 1

    Now, if only the could figure out how to get my car to stop beeping every time I take off my seatbelt at a toll booth or drive through window.

  80. Stupid by obeythefist · · Score: 1

    Anybody who is going to buy a car based on it's ability to detect a drunk driver is statistically the least likely to ever become a drunk driver anyway.

    Next:

    Nissan develops a new range of cars in different colour schemes specifically designed for the blind.
    Yamaha produces a new home theatre audio system for the deaf
    Nokia produces a new telephone for deaf-mutes.
    Nabisco produces peanut snacks for people with peanut allergies.

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
  81. Re:There will never be self-driving cars in Americ by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Self-driving cars will never happen in the USA, at least not in the foreseeable future.

    There, fixed it. You don't have the same sue-happy people in every country.

    Or we could simply say that you, the driver, are liable when the system fails, since you should have been watching the traffic so you can take over from the automatic. Or do you get off the hook if your cruise control crashes into a suddenly breaking truck?

    Self driving cars won't appear over night. They will be a growing process, where we get more and more steering aids and computer assistance. I'm fairly sure a system that can handle overland driving without heavy traffic is ready for mass production in a few years. The prototypes are there. LA rush hour might be a different thing, but the "boring" kind of steering will certainly be solvable by computers in a few years.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  82. crime/not crime by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    Because driving drunk is a crime while driving tired is not?

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  83. Two problems by Criton · · Score: 1

    One problem wouldn't the owner defeat the system just like I removed the speed governor from my car? Also that car is so damn ugly I just want to use it for target practice I mean isn't that the ugliest car you have ever seen I would never driver anything so ugly. Someone should beat the idiot who designed that eyesore with an idiot stick.

  84. Re:If I were Nissan, I would drop this! by Criton · · Score: 1

    It would work if it's only a warning system and if the warning was very non invasive. If it was a lockout or annoying the system would quickly find itself bypassed or the car would quickly be traded in on a model with out it.

  85. these ideas by someone1234 · · Score: 1

    The first one is probably ok, except if there is some other substance that it detects as alcohol. (Perfumes, for example). The seat belt could probably strangulate someone, and the stubborn steering is as lethal as it sounds.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  86. Self-driving cars: NEVER (and we all know why) by KudyardRipling · · Score: 1

    If the purpose of self-driving cars is to relieve the need for licensure, that will NEVER happen. Until then, there are two very important words that should appear next to one's signature on one's driver license (as well as everywhere else one may affix a signature): WITHOUT PREJUDICE or W/O PRJ. Even the police power (the origin of traffic laws as well as admiralty law) is subject to reservation of rights as well as the Fourteenth Amendment.

    The whole raison d'etre for public transportation is to keep calling driving 'a privilege' and not so much as to move about those who have no vehicles of their own.

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    Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
  87. A decent idea destroyed by retardation. by dbhost · · Score: 1

    Apparently Nissan did NOT do its homework... Due to ignorance I must admit, but this system will likely cause Nissan some VERY bad publicity from a group of drivers who have a particular eye disorder known as Nystagmus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nystagmus If this system tracks eye movement, it will fail perfectly sober duly licensed drivers. Oh well, not much of a surprise coming from Nissan. There are good reasons the popularity of their products has been in the toilet since the late 80s...

    1. Re:A decent idea destroyed by retardation. by webworm97 · · Score: 1

      Great another things, I will have to get disabled. I have a lazy eye. It would think, I am tired a lot. I do not try to drive if I am really tired. What about real curvy roads? What about someone who just got of work and is real tired. Sleep in the car? I do not think management would like that. I would not want a camera staring in my face, that just creeps me out.

  88. Use case that may result in a false positive by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why would you be using hand sanitizer while driving? Shouldn't at least one of those hands be on the wheel?

    Try this use case:

    1. Enter car that someone else borrowed and parked.
    2. Use sanitizer on wheel and hand.
    3. Insert key into ignition.
    4. Start car.

    If the alcohol in the sanitizer doesn't evaporate quickly enough while steps 3 and 4 are happening, the detector makes a false positive.

  89. Paris & Lindsy are on the waiting list by gordysosa · · Score: 1

    It's about time thats a genius idea. No more this drunk drivers on the newspapers front page, no more weird drunk drivers stories like this one http://www.wwwpd.org/?p=58