I said they don't usually *grow up* to be violent.
I base that on my experience and conversations with actual violent people.
Exactly what did you base your amazing insight on?
disagree == dipshit ???
Sounds like a rough attitude. Maybe you played with too many guns as a child.;)
Do not give up hope. There is a lot of room in this world for people that think like that. Actually that attitude sadly seems to be the majority view from what I can tell.
It's actally far more likely that the kid will grow up to be a model making nutlike his Dad. Since he will remember the project as much as the finished product that allowed him to actually climb inside and drive around the yard.
Who knows he may even grow up to be an engineer.
I worked in prisons for quite a few years and believe me, kids with dads that spend this kind of time with them don't typically grow up to be dangerous and violent.
One user, one machine is what the other guys do. I use Linux with X becuase it does more. Diskless terminals are magic as far as I am concerned and with Xfree86 this is not an after thought but built in from the ground up.
I hope the community never caves to this kind of pressure and continues to improve the things they already do better than the rest. Which is produce a true multi-user network based environment.
IMO PDA's are one of the few places this kind of one-user display really belong. Even MS sees this, if you look at the features that they have been cobbling on to their OS for remote desktop, terminal services, etc. it's obvious. Their suffering from X envy.
But my point was that OSS is raw material (I guess the ore part) to which this guys add work and produce a product. I was primarily arguing that their product was legit. And that a food chain as it were, has been developed around OSS that provides business oportunities on many levels.
As far as their contribution to the OSS effort goes I do not know enough about them to comment.
exactly why doesn't the work these guys do to produce solutions count as production? and how is a complete solution to a specified problem(need) without value? Open source is a large collection of unrealated works. Production in this context is turning the raw material (OSS) into marketable products. Think about the difference between iron ore and punch presses and cars. I think you would call a building a car production no? How is taking the raw material of OSS and making it into a solution different if someone needs it?
If you are making the point that only things like real estate and gold have real value ok. But in the everyday world of common idioms. People pay for the things they need. And value is a measure of satifaction with the solution.
What MS apps are you talking about Word? Excel?
Do you really think someone proficient in OOo would have a tough time migrating to Word?
I just converted a whole office full of people from those MS apps to Openoffice with almost 0 training. I am sure that the same would hold true when travelling the other direction on that road. The only *skill* they would lack is the constant updating of virus software needed when using Word.
I would also recommend spending some time at the K12LTSP mailing list archive where you would actually learn what a lot of schools are doing with Linux these days and why.
While I agree that there are downsides to the X-Windows model. It is exactly this model that gives it it's power and flexibility. This is also why I think it has lasted this long. I run several Linux terminal servers. Hard to imagine this kind of thing without X-Windows or something like it. A better X-Windows maybe? A replacement is hard to imagine when you consider the sheer inertia X-windows has.
'UNBIASED Knowledge is Good' - any other kind is Bad.
And where exactly do you find truly 'UNBIASED knowledge' PULEEEEEEZZZE
Idealism is good too. But when people start to reference thier points with us and them rhetoric they seem to be in a poor position throw around terms like 'unbiased'
And even when you have truly objective data it still has to be:
Interpreted
communicated
reported on by journalists
Discussed on slashdot
We are now in the last link on this chain.
UNBIASED is not a word that springs to mind as I read these entries.
PS. Scientists also have views, opinions, and agendas. To think that the science god protects them from this is to be nieve in the extreme.
You obviously work for an organization much larger and richer than the one I am with. Two admins would be wonderful. And so would a nice big office and an expense account. But that is not going to happen either.
I was not recommending single admin setups. But sometimes I wonder if people with all these great ideas for securing everything realize how many organizations would be happy to have one good admin. But 40 - 80k per year makes that out of the question. So they grab someone warm and tell them to get trained (me 10 years ago) and they build networks and manage them.
Some do excellent work and some don't and thats what makes up the current internet world. All the experts in the world won't change that. Unless of course somehow only the elite are allowed on. (not likely)
Can't argue with your points otherwise. Except that its sort of sounds like Marie Antoinette (let them eat cake). In the world I live in you do what you can to keep it simple and keep it running.
It still comes down to trust. Because the few times over the years I actually had legit help it still would not have stopped me from being evil.
There is no substitute for employees you can trust.
Have you ever considered starting your own consulting firm?
I am sure you could do better with your Love calculator than most of the big pundits and prognosticators I have seen printing things lately;)
In fact if you simply strip off the lovecalculator.com disclaimer and say it was produced by some (bogus) study no one would be the wiser, since in this great land (USA). Said in media == true. Even though most will deny it.
amen and amen I would not want to work in that kind of convoluted mess.
Trust is everything in sysadmins. If you get a bad one your hurtn'
I was a lone ranger sysadmin for almost 10 years on a small network with 100 or so clients and a few hundred email accounts. For entertainment I used to muse over coffe with my boss how easy it would be to rig the entire network including backups to explode over the course of a few weeks or so after I left.
It was fun to watch the blood drain from his face as I described the details.;-)
Procedure would have been useless against me (who would do it?). I either had integrity or I did not and my boss knew it and trusted me implicitly. And I proved him right. Creating a paranoid and suspicious atmosphere only breeds the attitudes you fear most in many cases.
(favorite office sign) "The beatings will continue until moral improves"
Cheers!
Re:Used Equipment + OSS = Cost Savings
on
Largo Loving Linux
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I actually use thin clients and I can tell you it scales. Even at full price a thin client is cheaper than a standard desktop. (forget software) And if you add the central admin and increased reliability to it there is no comparison. Then you ADD the free software with no license hassles and you really have a big savings.(and a happier life;)
The only thing that can be a problem ( not in a well designed system) is managing system and network loads.
I have done this for around 3 years now in a small 100 - 200 user environment and it is great.
This is interesting to me in light of the fact that this whole conversation is about life, ALL life no less, coming from a single ridiculously small source.
I have always been sure that you could whittle a tooth pick from an oak tree. But I have a bit of a problem with evolutions assertion that you can in fact whittle an oak tree from a tooth pick.(so to speak) Not to mention every other form of life.
There was a day when I ran a 100% M$ shop (NT) and I led the charge for everyone to convert from Lotus to Office. 5 or 6 years later I have converted the same office to about 90% Linux (mostly X-terminals) and I have personally used Linux for years as my desktop. long before it was "ready".
I understand the sentiments of many and why they must use M$ even if, in a perfect world, they would not. But there is no real reason to stay there at this point unless you run a multimedia shop or you need some custom VBA app (like our accounting office;(.
Things are good now and getting better every day. People ask why I would put up with bugs and rough edges. Well I put up with them for years w/ M$ and paid high prices for the "honor". Now that M$ has finally built an OS that falls into the exceptable range it seems everyone gets amnesia and forgets all about the last 10 years or so. When the biggest richest corp in the business either could not or would not make improvements that mattered. Today Word seems better suited as a virus delivery platform than a "productivity" app.
On that note, the number of document born viri since conversion to Linux 0.( or any other kind for that matter)
Prior to conversion, there was no way of counting.
And still people remain faithful and after they pay M$ they pay Norton or who knows who else just to keep all that nonsense at bay and then smile and say "it's great, what's wrong?" pulease....
Slashdot Mirror
I said they don't usually *grow up* to be violent.
I base that on my experience and conversations with actual violent people.
Exactly what did you base your amazing insight on?
disagree == dipshit ???
Sounds like a rough attitude. Maybe you played with too many guns as a child. ;)
Do not give up hope. There is a lot of room in this world for people that think like that. Actually that attitude sadly seems to be the majority view from what I can tell.
Ever wonder why the UN does not work? Hmmmm....
Have a good one.
Who knows he may even grow up to be an engineer.
I worked in prisons for quite a few years and believe me, kids with dads that spend this kind of time with them don't typically grow up to be dangerous and violent.
I hope the community never caves to this kind of pressure and continues to improve the things they already do better than the rest. Which is produce a true multi-user network based environment.
IMO PDA's are one of the few places this kind of one-user display really belong. Even MS sees this, if you look at the features that they have been cobbling on to their OS for remote desktop, terminal services, etc. it's obvious. Their suffering from X envy.
But my point was that OSS is raw material (I guess the ore part) to which this guys add work and produce a product. I was primarily arguing that their product was legit. And that a food chain as it were, has been developed around OSS that provides business oportunities on many levels.
As far as their contribution to the OSS effort goes I do not know enough about them to comment.
My $.03
Just rolled it out so far so good. Did the upgrade for the most part and it was almost completely painless. FWIW
exactly why doesn't the work these guys do to produce solutions count as production? and how is a complete solution to a specified problem(need) without value? Open source is a large collection of unrealated works. Production in this context is turning the raw material (OSS) into marketable products. Think about the difference between iron ore and punch presses and cars. I think you would call a building a car production no? How is taking the raw material of OSS and making it into a solution different if someone needs it?
If you are making the point that only things like real estate and gold have real value ok. But in the everyday world of common idioms. People pay for the things they need. And value is a measure of satifaction with the solution.
my $.02
Do you really think someone proficient in OOo would have a tough time migrating to Word?
I just converted a whole office full of people from those MS apps to Openoffice with almost 0 training. I am sure that the same would hold true when travelling the other direction on that road. The only *skill* they would lack is the constant updating of virus software needed when using Word.
I would also recommend spending some time at the K12LTSP mailing list archive where you would actually learn what a lot of schools are doing with Linux these days and why.
-----
From another newly MS free school.
FWIW
And where exactly do you find truly 'UNBIASED knowledge' PULEEEEEEZZZE
Idealism is good too. But when people start to reference thier points with us and them rhetoric they seem to be in a poor position throw around terms like 'unbiased'
And even when you have truly objective data it still has to be:
We are now in the last link on this chain.
UNBIASED is not a word that springs to mind as I read these entries.
PS. Scientists also have views, opinions, and agendas. To think that the science god protects them from this is to be nieve in the extreme.
Have a nice day
I was not recommending single admin setups. But sometimes I wonder if people with all these great ideas for securing everything realize how many organizations would be happy to have one good admin. But 40 - 80k per year makes that out of the question. So they grab someone warm and tell them to get trained (me 10 years ago) and they build networks and manage them.
Some do excellent work and some don't and thats what makes up the current internet world. All the experts in the world won't change that. Unless of course somehow only the elite are allowed on. (not likely)
Can't argue with your points otherwise. Except that its sort of sounds like Marie Antoinette (let them eat cake). In the world I live in you do what you can to keep it simple and keep it running.
It still comes down to trust. Because the few times over the years I actually had legit help it still would not have stopped me from being evil.
There is no substitute for employees you can trust.
Have a good one up there in your ivory palace.;)
Have you ever considered starting your own consulting firm?
I am sure you could do better with your Love calculator than most of the big pundits and prognosticators I have seen printing things lately ;)
In fact if you simply strip off the lovecalculator.com disclaimer and say it was produced by some (bogus) study no one would be the wiser, since in this great land (USA).
Said in media == true.
Even though most will deny it.
Thanks for the laugh!
Trust is everything in sysadmins. If you get a bad one your hurtn'
I was a lone ranger sysadmin for almost 10 years on a small network with 100 or so clients and a few hundred email accounts. For entertainment I used to muse over coffe with my boss how easy it would be to rig the entire network including backups to explode over the course of a few weeks or so after I left.
It was fun to watch the blood drain from his face as I described the details. ;-)
Procedure would have been useless against me (who would do it?). I either had integrity or I did not and my boss knew it and trusted me implicitly. And I proved him right. Creating a paranoid and suspicious atmosphere only breeds the attitudes you fear most in many cases.
(favorite office sign)
"The beatings will continue until moral improves"
Cheers!
The only thing that can be a problem ( not in a well designed system) is managing system and network loads.
I have done this for around 3 years now in a small 100 - 200 user environment and it is great.
The eBay thing is nothing but gravy.
I have always been sure that you could whittle a tooth pick from an oak tree. But I have a bit of a problem with evolutions assertion that you can in fact whittle an oak tree from a tooth pick.(so to speak) Not to mention every other form of life.
I understand the sentiments of many and why they must use M$ even if, in a perfect world, they would not. But there is no real reason to stay there at this point unless you run a multimedia shop or you need some custom VBA app (like our accounting office ;(.
Things are good now and getting better every day. People ask why I would put up with bugs and rough edges. Well I put up with them for years w/ M$ and paid high prices for the "honor". Now that M$ has finally built an OS that falls into the exceptable range it seems everyone gets amnesia and forgets all about the last 10 years or so. When the biggest richest corp in the business either could not or would not make improvements that mattered. Today Word seems better suited as a virus delivery platform than a "productivity" app.
On that note, the number of document born viri since conversion to Linux 0.( or any other kind for that matter)
Prior to conversion, there was no way of counting.
And still people remain faithful and after they pay M$ they pay Norton or who knows who else just to keep all that nonsense at bay and then smile and say "it's great, what's wrong?" pulease....
Well, to each his own i guess.