But Debian 2.2(potato) was a step up from the 2.0 kernel to 2.2. I think it was also the change from libc5 to glibc, but don't quote me on that one. Last I checked Woody is Debian 2.3. Either way, the version number seems less important on Debian than on other systems, apt-get just keeps the system up to date as I go. treke
Not everyone... Debian's still calling their releases 2.x. Not really sure what they're numbering strategy is though. Seems like they should have made potato 3.0 to me, but whatever. treke
Just a quick comment, Konqueror is new to KDE2. The KDE 1 browser is a much more stripped down browser that was embedded into EFM. Konqueror is a very full featured browser that last I heard was even going to support Netscape plugins. treke
I think the point is that if they can't meet the deadline for financing a take down, it'll just reenter on it's own. If they do have the money to plan a controlled reentry, then all is well in the world. It's not like it will die anytime soon, obviously they expect it to survive till 2001. Oh, wait. That aint too far off:) treke
The issue isn't really the 386, that's just an exageration of the problem. The same patches that help these massive machines will hurt performance on most machines. The article mentions allocating memory for caching is a problem for machines with little RAM, 15 megs of pure cache can really hurt on say... a celeron with 64 megs. Not a big problem for say a 31 cp Alpha with 256GB of Ram. Compared to monsters like that most desktop machines running linux are about as powerful as that 386 or 486.
I can see Linux eventually dropping mainstream support for the 386, but right now there's no huge gain to be made by not supporting it. Killing performance on most x86 machines out there on the other hand is a bad thing. treke
Not really. This is just a merging of two similar product lines, AOL bought out miribalis a while back. There's no difference between this and Microsoft trying to merge 9x and NT, other than the source of the two applications.
treke
ICQ already allows you to have a nick name, the login name would probably remain the number, but the client would know to display a different name, say the nick name. I'm sure the biggest challenge would be reconciling differences between the protocals, like file transfers, offiline messages, etc. treke
Considering everything in RedHat 7.0 is built against the 2.4 headers, it should be painless. I know that I can get a 2.4 running on 6.2 simply. Just update modutils(With the one from 7) and build the source. bingo, we've got 2.4. treke
Last I heard Tribes 2 was in the "Linux isn't out of the question" zone. Dynamix wasn't committing to ever releasing a Tribes 2 Client, but it wasn't quite agreeing to one either. Hope it does happen though. treke
He did mean in 3d. Having 32bit color in 2d is something I remember being able to do in the 2meg trident days. Maybe not a wise idea, but possible. treke
Just gonna say that the pictures all seem to show rather rather stinking differences between the different images, especially for the relative closenes of build numbers. The Build 2223 image startment says Whistler 20001, while Whistler 2250 says Codename Whistler on it. The personal edition build 2257 has a completly different form of start menu. WinSupersites does mention that the new start menu format has been added since 2250 though, so that fits.
Also slightly different is the text stating that this is a beta. The basic format is the same, but 2257 and 2223 state that this is for testing while 2250 says that it's for evaluation use.
It's kind of up in the air still since for every striking difference there is a similarity. The same control panel pops up, as do some very similar themes.
There are also differences in the way tasks are displayed. Either on raised buttons or not, but in both shots the text fades out. Might just be a theming option.
I think taken as a whole you can get a good feeling of what Win2001 will look like, but something about the numerous oddities between different screenshots kind of set me off. treke
The Win2k beta said Win2k on the start menu(as I recall) picture
The taskbar properties has Windows 20?? in the image picture
In the images defense, the build numbers appear to be the same between the different shots, and also appears in the dos.jpg. I do however doubt that the shutdown icon would have been so obviously ripped off from a Mac, although this is only an internal build. I can't comment on the technical quality of the images though.
You do know you can pick and choose what you want installed right? An install I did last week was roughly 350 and something megs. That's before I went through and started stripping stuff out. And 7.0 is supposed to be smaller than 6.2. Having a lot of packages does not make it any more bloated, just more flexible.
The standard installs aren't even that bad. If you just choose a workstation install you don't have those security problems because inetd isn't installed. I've found that I have to manually go through and install inetd so that I can run things that use it. If a newbie chooses to install httpd and inetd then that's their fault if it's exploited. A different story would be if someone chose to do a KDE workstation and ends up with telnetd, ftpd, inted, whateverd running. That is not the case. Should RedHat second guess those who actually want them installed on their system?
I really find the comment that RPMs make people lazy. Why reduplicate the effort in recompiling software that doesn't need recompiling. For some software (Apache, Kernel, some bleeding edge CVS source) it makes sense to compile your self because of the build time options. Why is it of any use for people to spend a couple of hours building X? or the couple of minutes per package it takes to compile it? Having the build tools themselves take up a significant amount of space, and it's often more economical to just install an RPM and be done with it.
That being said, if you don't like RPMS, don't use them. Feel free to compile whatever applications you want. You could even recompile the base operating system. It would't matter. The RPM dependencies wouldn't be met, but you wouldn't care. Just don't insult those of us who value the time it takes to do a./configure, make, make install and wait for things to build.
It's sort of like the missionaries of old. They thought they were "helping" the natives of the cultures they visited, because they were too narrow-minded to conceive that anyone could be happy without living as people in their own culture lived.
It's not that they can't be happier in their own culture, but that they can be happier living life differently. Sometimes it's just that people are better off living life differently. It's the same thing with Linux Advocacy. The most advocates (not trolls) think that Windows users would be happier better off in the long run if they weren't using Windows. This may or may not be true, but it is not discounting that Windows is getting the job done, and the users may actually be happy with the current system. treke
There already is one I think. Try doing a man on chattr and looking at the i attribute. Then the file can't be modified, linked, or deleted even by root. treke
One of the problems with RPM is that they arean't always relocatable. The packager has to give you the option for that to work. Now I don't know whether or not that works with quake, but if you take enlightenment as an example, it isn't relocatable. treke
Problem there is a lack of software to play DVDs with. There are a couple of apps that can play MPEG 2, but none that a) do it well on older equipment b) use any of the DVD features. And before anyone complains that people should just upgrade, my use of older refers to a P3 450. treke
I don't know why other people are hostile to KDE. Only thing I have against KDE ist that I don't like using it. I don't even think the licensing issue is a real problem. RedHat probably has some decent lawyers and would be shipping KDE if they thought it was a violation of the GPL. treke
They are free to do whatever they want with their own code, even if it is GPL. They could give you binaries and refuse the source if they want. The problem is that other people don't have that luxury. The issue for Debian was that it might have been illegal for them to redistribute Debian. treke
I knew that Wine supported some of DirectX, I've been trying to set up Half Life on it myself. Unfortunatly Wine still doesn't run programs quite as reliably as VMWare, but it's coming along. Just look at all the problems Corel Office 2000 has. They use a version of Wine chosen specifically to run it, yet it has quite a few serious bugs in it.
WINE is an ambitious project that has been very successful, and will hopefully continue in their success. For now I see a market that VMWare could benefit from tackling. treke
I wonder when someone's gonna come out with some form of DirectX support in one of these Windows Emulators/Virtual Machines. It might not be able to cut it for a lot of 3d games, but I'm sure there are many games that don't tax the system nearly as much like The Sims, Star Craft, other games. Now that XFree86 4.0 is supporting 3d better it might even be possible to get decent 3d support in the virtual machine enabling older 3d games like Everquest, Half Life, etc. Someone who wants the extreme speed would be willing to reboot, but some of us wouldn't mind being able to grab a quick game whenever the temptation hit us, and not have to worry about things like other users or currently running applications.
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But Debian 2.2(potato) was a step up from the 2.0 kernel to 2.2. I think it was also the change from libc5 to glibc, but don't quote me on that one. Last I checked Woody is Debian 2.3. Either way, the version number seems less important on Debian than on other systems, apt-get just keeps the system up to date as I go.
treke
Not everyone... Debian's still calling their releases 2.x. Not really sure what they're numbering strategy is though. Seems like they should have made potato 3.0 to me, but whatever.
treke
Just a quick comment, Konqueror is new to KDE2. The KDE 1 browser is a much more stripped down browser that was embedded into EFM. Konqueror is a very full featured browser that last I heard was even going to support Netscape plugins.
treke
Look at the bottom of the page. http://www.lastfoot.com/about_us/news_coverage/081 000-merger.php. It was a merger.
treke
I think the point is that if they can't meet the deadline for financing a take down, it'll just reenter on it's own. If they do have the money to plan a controlled reentry, then all is well in the world. It's not like it will die anytime soon, obviously they expect it to survive till 2001. Oh, wait. That aint too far off :)
treke
The issue isn't really the 386, that's just an exageration of the problem. The same patches that help these massive machines will hurt performance on most machines. The article mentions allocating memory for caching is a problem for machines with little RAM, 15 megs of pure cache can really hurt on say... a celeron with 64 megs. Not a big problem for say a 31 cp Alpha with 256GB of Ram. Compared to monsters like that most desktop machines running linux are about as powerful as that 386 or 486.
I can see Linux eventually dropping mainstream support for the 386, but right now there's no huge gain to be made by not supporting it. Killing performance on most x86 machines out there on the other hand is a bad thing.
treke
Not really. This is just a merging of two similar product lines, AOL bought out miribalis a while back. There's no difference between this and Microsoft trying to merge 9x and NT, other than the source of the two applications.
treke
ICQ already allows you to have a nick name, the login name would probably remain the number, but the client would know to display a different name, say the nick name. I'm sure the biggest challenge would be reconciling differences between the protocals, like file transfers, offiline messages, etc.
treke
Considering everything in RedHat 7.0 is built against the 2.4 headers, it should be painless. I know that I can get a 2.4 running on 6.2 simply. Just update modutils(With the one from 7) and build the source. bingo, we've got 2.4.
treke
Last I heard Tribes 2 was in the "Linux isn't out of the question" zone. Dynamix wasn't committing to ever releasing a Tribes 2 Client, but it wasn't quite agreeing to one either. Hope it does happen though.
treke
He did mean in 3d. Having 32bit color in 2d is something I remember being able to do in the 2meg trident days. Maybe not a wise idea, but possible.
treke
It's probably just a front end to the terminal server client.
treke
Also slightly different is the text stating that this is a beta. The basic format is the same, but 2257 and 2223 state that this is for testing while 2250 says that it's for evaluation use.
It's kind of up in the air still since for every striking difference there is a similarity. The same control panel pops up, as do some very similar themes.
There are also differences in the way tasks are displayed. Either on raised buttons or not, but in both shots the text fades out. Might just be a theming option.
I think taken as a whole you can get a good feeling of what Win2001 will look like, but something about the numerous oddities between different screenshots kind of set me off.
treke
What makes me think they might be faked the most is that The start menu says Codename Whistler. but,
In the images defense, the build numbers appear to be the same between the different shots, and also appears in the dos.jpg. I do however doubt that the shutdown icon would have been so obviously ripped off from a Mac, although this is only an internal build. I can't comment on the technical quality of the images though.
Either way I kinda like it.
treke
You do know you can pick and choose what you want installed right? An install I did last week was roughly 350 and something megs. That's before I went through and started stripping stuff out. And 7.0 is supposed to be smaller than 6.2. Having a lot of packages does not make it any more bloated, just more flexible.
The standard installs aren't even that bad. If you just choose a workstation install you don't have those security problems because inetd isn't installed. I've found that I have to manually go through and install inetd so that I can run things that use it. If a newbie chooses to install httpd and inetd then that's their fault if it's exploited. A different story would be if someone chose to do a KDE workstation and ends up with telnetd, ftpd, inted, whateverd running. That is not the case. Should RedHat second guess those who actually want them installed on their system?
I really find the comment that RPMs make people lazy. Why reduplicate the effort in recompiling software that doesn't need recompiling. For some software (Apache, Kernel, some bleeding edge CVS source) it makes sense to compile your self because of the build time options. Why is it of any use for people to spend a couple of hours building X? or the couple of minutes per package it takes to compile it? Having the build tools themselves take up a significant amount of space, and it's often more economical to just install an RPM and be done with it.
That being said, if you don't like RPMS, don't use them. Feel free to compile whatever applications you want. You could even recompile the base operating system. It would't matter. The RPM dependencies wouldn't be met, but you wouldn't care. Just don't insult those of us who value the time it takes to do a ./configure, make, make install and wait for things to build.
I do agree on the mailing list point though
treke
It's sort of like the missionaries of old. They thought they were "helping" the natives of the cultures they visited, because they were too narrow-minded to conceive that anyone could be happy without living as people in their own culture lived.
It's not that they can't be happier in their own culture, but that they can be happier living life differently. Sometimes it's just that people are better off living life differently. It's the same thing with Linux Advocacy. The most advocates (not trolls) think that Windows users would be happier better off in the long run if they weren't using Windows. This may or may not be true, but it is not discounting that Windows is getting the job done, and the users may actually be happy with the current system.
treke
There already is one I think. Try doing a man on chattr and looking at the i attribute. Then the file can't be modified, linked, or deleted even by root.
treke
One of the problems with RPM is that they arean't always relocatable. The packager has to give you the option for that to work. Now I don't know whether or not that works with quake, but if you take enlightenment as an example, it isn't relocatable.
treke
Well actually you can. Just enable OSCAR support, which I think is working once again. There's an option for away messages after that.
treke
What DeCSS actually does is decrypts the data on the encrypted DVDs. That's it.
treke
Problem there is a lack of software to play DVDs with. There are a couple of apps that can play MPEG 2, but none that a) do it well on older equipment b) use any of the DVD features. And before anyone complains that people should just upgrade, my use of older refers to a P3 450.
treke
I don't know why other people are hostile to KDE. Only thing I have against KDE ist that I don't like using it. I don't even think the licensing issue is a real problem. RedHat probably has some decent lawyers and would be shipping KDE if they thought it was a violation of the GPL.
treke
They are free to do whatever they want with their own code, even if it is GPL. They could give you binaries and refuse the source if they want. The problem is that other people don't have that luxury. The issue for Debian was that it might have been illegal for them to redistribute Debian.
treke
I knew that Wine supported some of DirectX, I've been trying to set up Half Life on it myself. Unfortunatly Wine still doesn't run programs quite as reliably as VMWare, but it's coming along. Just look at all the problems Corel Office 2000 has. They use a version of Wine chosen specifically to run it, yet it has quite a few serious bugs in it.
WINE is an ambitious project that has been very successful, and will hopefully continue in their success. For now I see a market that VMWare could benefit from tackling.
treke
I wonder when someone's gonna come out with some form of DirectX support in one of these Windows Emulators/Virtual Machines. It might not be able to cut it for a lot of 3d games, but I'm sure there are many games that don't tax the system nearly as much like The Sims, Star Craft, other games. Now that XFree86 4.0 is supporting 3d better it might even be possible to get decent 3d support in the virtual machine enabling older 3d games like Everquest, Half Life, etc. Someone who wants the extreme speed would be willing to reboot, but some of us wouldn't mind being able to grab a quick game whenever the temptation hit us, and not have to worry about things like other users or currently running applications.
treke