Actually, I mentioned in my previous post that my father's cars had been totalled by being hit, not the engine's failing... My parents survived each of those crashes because the cars were built of steel, instead of aluminum. The body structure was stronger than most of today's cars, which are DESIGNED to crumple and drop the engines onto the pavement.
Yes, safety has come a long way, so have electronics. I'm not saying they HAVEN'T. The whole point of this thread was to discuss ECCU upgrades... I simply pointed out that mechanical upgrades will always get you further than meddling with the electronics. Mechanics is something nearly anyone willing to learn can modify.
Electronics, on the other hand, requires specialized knowledge of every component in the vehicle that the ECCU utilizes, which is typically well beyond any scope of understanding that the shade tree mechanic could possibly WANT to learn. If they did, they'd be working for a large corporation (or starting one) making millions every year because "Knowledge is Power".
As far as the lack of classic car folks... That's because the smart ones keep their cars in the garage, out of the elements -- to keep it classic and intact, and gaining value every day it's in one piece. Many of them have them on display at a local car museum. I used to work at one... we had a delorian in the basement... absolutely spectacular car up close in mint condition!
-Phyre
While true overall, you must first take into account the person maintaining the mechanicals. Sure, it's possible to get well over 200k miles out of an EFI engine, and yes, they are (overall) more efficient than their carburated bretherin... But, cars today are designed to be throw-away vehicles. They aren't BUILT to last.
And yes, my van drinks gasoline, it's a V8 350 CID. On the same token, I also had a 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 with a 5.7L V8, and it was computer controlled... but I don't notice very much difference in fuel mileage between my 5.6L and the 5.7L the truck had... I believe the van weighs more than the truck did as well, totalling about 4800Lbs. In this, my point is a properly tuned carburated engine will come very close to the fuel consumption charactistics of an identical, or nearly identical, fuel injected engine.
My point was, dollars per horsepower, mechanical upgrades will always be superior to any electronic upgrade when it comes to performance per dollar spent. Mechanics can only be pushed so hard before they just give up. To get better performance, you must upgrade the mechanical components.
As far as my Z... The only thing I haven't replaced yet is the ECCU and engine wiring harness, the diagnostics have all pointed to the ECCU as being the problem, or a wireing fault between the engine compartment and the ECCU. I simply haven't taken the time to try a new ECCU yet because I plan to put a Chevy 305 or 350 conversion into it. Simply because I want to try something different. It's a project car, after all. Partial parts list, replaced: New fuel injectors, ignition system, sensors, vacuum lines, hoses, fuel delivery system, etc... all new
And yes, electronics have come a long way since they first started... But I still have to say that I do not now, nor ever will, trust electronics over mechanics. With mechanics, if something goes wrong, it's typically immediately identifiable... With electronics, there's always something wrong right off the line. It's just a fact. And may the gods help us once Honda starts putting MS Windows into their cars.
Oh, and I feel the need to mention that my father has had several cars that were fuel injected, all of General Motors origin, that lasted well past 350k miles. When the cars finally came to the end of their lives, it wasn't because the engine failed... It was usually because the cars were totalled by someone plowing into them on an icy road in a snowstorm (3 of his cars have met this fate over the years).
-Phyre
ECU? What ECU?
on
Hack Your Car
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
What ECU? My 1984 Chevy Van G20 doesn't have one. And ya know what? I'm happy! All that electronic MESS just serves to throw more chaos into a system that's designed around EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.
Why bother with electronics, when you can do something that's time tested and proven -- mechanics. For every advantage electronics give you, there's an associated disadvantage -- Biggest disadvantage? More things can go wrong at any given moment in time, and the older the electronics, the more prone it is to failure and the harder it is to come by replacement parts.
This simple maxim is just as true for stock cars as it is for modded cars. Case in point: My 1983 Nissan 280ZX is fuel injected, so it has an ECU. It has a stalling problem, yet all of the mechanics are fine. The problem is electrical -- most likely related to the ECU, but I'm not going to go pay someone $400 to find it, and then charge me a buttload more to fix it.
With my van, since everything is mechanical, it's easy to find the problem... symptoms are fewer when a problem occurs... There's not too much guesswork in diagnosing it.
Want to upgrade? Easy as pie. New cam, intake, exhaust system and a good quality carb. My choice? Edelbrock. Everything's designed to match, so the guesswork's been taken care of.
Top that with an ECU upgrade that you'll pay just as much for as I did for the entire mechanical upgrade, and I'll guarantee you I have a buttload more HP per dollar spent.
And I also guarantee I'll win in any tug of war against your Honda Civic.... Replacement bumpers anyone?
Well spoken! I completely agree. The "artists" have forgotten that it takes *US* to make *THEM* successful... By denying us what *WE* want, as a whole, they only hurt themselves... I just hope that they realize that before their industry goes belly up... But then again, maybe that'd be the best thing to happen since sliced bread?
Pink Floyd, The Doors and bands like those... Ya just don't see them anymore. It's a shame too.
Funny you should say that because there was a USA Today article [usatoday.com] in today's newspaper that discussed the implications of a single song music market, ie- the end of the album. There are still some artists who produce albums as an artistic whole, not just a bunch of singles, but as a complete artistic statement. The fear is that if the per song market becomes dominent, that the art of albums will consequently suffer.
There's a saying for this... Lemme think... Oh yea, It's "Out with the new, on with the old!" No, no, that's not it... Oh yea! "Out with the old, In with the New!" Yep, that's it...
Things change, times Change. The RIAA will either bend to the pressure of the market, or be thrown out on its haunches in utter defeat. It's been done in the past in other industries, and it will be done with the music industry and any other industry that doesn't change with the customer's demands.
There is another key quote that has always served business well to remember. One which industry as a whole seems to have forgotten: "The customer is always right.", and "Without the customer, there is no business."
Quotes are great, insightful and usually right on the money... Oops... I said the M word. Someone tape my mouth shut.
-Phyrebyrd
Re:So, what you're really saying....
on
My Visit to SCO
·
· Score: 1
Personally, my servers run Linux, and I wouldn't want that POS Windows crap SWALLOWING anything from my network. Linux is my server OS of choice, what difference does it make which or how many versions of their "software" the "code" unlocks? I'll stick with Linux, thanks... Disc 3 of RH9 is almost done downloading too... so, NYEAH! to Micro$haft.
Why heat the tank? #1 reason: It's Minnesota. I'm from there... it's damn cold in the winter.. Nothing quite like a frozen lake of crap in the middle of winter with no way to thaw it out! Besides, heat is also a by-product of the power generator... why simply vent it when it can do something useful?
I hate to be a party pooper, but - if I'm not mistaken - If he wore red glasses while viewing the color tone/tint adjustments, it'd have been biased more in the green/blue spectrum to compensate for the additional red tone he constantly saw.... The glasses would have had to have been yellow for this to logically take place as the source of the "problem"... If I'm wrong, please! Someone provide proof positive!
Have a great weekend!
-Phyre
Re:IDE Raid, inexpensive but major hassle
on
IDE RAID Examined
·
· Score: 1
I've got a Promise SX6000 - I agree. The cables are a pain, but I've got a 200GB array running six 40G drives in a RAID-5 array.... The price was right... Even if I did have to do a little drilling on my shiny new aluminum case to get this LONG card installed...
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, I mentioned in my previous post that my father's cars had been totalled by being hit, not the engine's failing... My parents survived each of those crashes because the cars were built of steel, instead of aluminum. The body structure was stronger than most of today's cars, which are DESIGNED to crumple and drop the engines onto the pavement. Yes, safety has come a long way, so have electronics. I'm not saying they HAVEN'T. The whole point of this thread was to discuss ECCU upgrades... I simply pointed out that mechanical upgrades will always get you further than meddling with the electronics. Mechanics is something nearly anyone willing to learn can modify. Electronics, on the other hand, requires specialized knowledge of every component in the vehicle that the ECCU utilizes, which is typically well beyond any scope of understanding that the shade tree mechanic could possibly WANT to learn. If they did, they'd be working for a large corporation (or starting one) making millions every year because "Knowledge is Power". As far as the lack of classic car folks... That's because the smart ones keep their cars in the garage, out of the elements -- to keep it classic and intact, and gaining value every day it's in one piece. Many of them have them on display at a local car museum. I used to work at one... we had a delorian in the basement... absolutely spectacular car up close in mint condition! -Phyre
While true overall, you must first take into account the person maintaining the mechanicals. Sure, it's possible to get well over 200k miles out of an EFI engine, and yes, they are (overall) more efficient than their carburated bretherin... But, cars today are designed to be throw-away vehicles. They aren't BUILT to last.
And yes, my van drinks gasoline, it's a V8 350 CID. On the same token, I also had a 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 with a 5.7L V8, and it was computer controlled... but I don't notice very much difference in fuel mileage between my 5.6L and the 5.7L the truck had... I believe the van weighs more than the truck did as well, totalling about 4800Lbs. In this, my point is a properly tuned carburated engine will come very close to the fuel consumption charactistics of an identical, or nearly identical, fuel injected engine.
My point was, dollars per horsepower, mechanical upgrades will always be superior to any electronic upgrade when it comes to performance per dollar spent. Mechanics can only be pushed so hard before they just give up. To get better performance, you must upgrade the mechanical components.
As far as my Z... The only thing I haven't replaced yet is the ECCU and engine wiring harness, the diagnostics have all pointed to the ECCU as being the problem, or a wireing fault between the engine compartment and the ECCU. I simply haven't taken the time to try a new ECCU yet because I plan to put a Chevy 305 or 350 conversion into it. Simply because I want to try something different. It's a project car, after all. Partial parts list, replaced: New fuel injectors, ignition system, sensors, vacuum lines, hoses, fuel delivery system, etc... all new
And yes, electronics have come a long way since they first started... But I still have to say that I do not now, nor ever will, trust electronics over mechanics. With mechanics, if something goes wrong, it's typically immediately identifiable... With electronics, there's always something wrong right off the line. It's just a fact. And may the gods help us once Honda starts putting MS Windows into their cars.
Oh, and I feel the need to mention that my father has had several cars that were fuel injected, all of General Motors origin, that lasted well past 350k miles. When the cars finally came to the end of their lives, it wasn't because the engine failed... It was usually because the cars were totalled by someone plowing into them on an icy road in a snowstorm (3 of his cars have met this fate over the years).
-Phyre
What ECU? My 1984 Chevy Van G20 doesn't have one. And ya know what? I'm happy! All that electronic MESS just serves to throw more chaos into a system that's designed around EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.
Why bother with electronics, when you can do something that's time tested and proven -- mechanics. For every advantage electronics give you, there's an associated disadvantage -- Biggest disadvantage? More things can go wrong at any given moment in time, and the older the electronics, the more prone it is to failure and the harder it is to come by replacement parts.
This simple maxim is just as true for stock cars as it is for modded cars. Case in point: My 1983 Nissan 280ZX is fuel injected, so it has an ECU. It has a stalling problem, yet all of the mechanics are fine. The problem is electrical -- most likely related to the ECU, but I'm not going to go pay someone $400 to find it, and then charge me a buttload more to fix it.
With my van, since everything is mechanical, it's easy to find the problem... symptoms are fewer when a problem occurs... There's not too much guesswork in diagnosing it.
Want to upgrade? Easy as pie. New cam, intake, exhaust system and a good quality carb. My choice? Edelbrock. Everything's designed to match, so the guesswork's been taken care of.
Top that with an ECU upgrade that you'll pay just as much for as I did for the entire mechanical upgrade, and I'll guarantee you I have a buttload more HP per dollar spent.
And I also guarantee I'll win in any tug of war against your Honda Civic.... Replacement bumpers anyone?
-Phyre
Well spoken! I completely agree. The "artists" have forgotten that it takes *US* to make *THEM* successful... By denying us what *WE* want, as a whole, they only hurt themselves... I just hope that they realize that before their industry goes belly up... But then again, maybe that'd be the best thing to happen since sliced bread?
Pink Floyd, The Doors and bands like those... Ya just don't see them anymore. It's a shame too.
-Phyrebyrd
There's a saying for this... Lemme think... Oh yea, It's "Out with the new, on with the old!" No, no, that's not it... Oh yea! "Out with the old, In with the New!" Yep, that's it...
Things change, times Change. The RIAA will either bend to the pressure of the market, or be thrown out on its haunches in utter defeat. It's been done in the past in other industries, and it will be done with the music industry and any other industry that doesn't change with the customer's demands.
There is another key quote that has always served business well to remember. One which industry as a whole seems to have forgotten: "The customer is always right.", and "Without the customer, there is no business."
Quotes are great, insightful and usually right on the money... Oops... I said the M word. Someone tape my mouth shut.
-Phyrebyrd
Unfortunately, they have, it's called Palladium.
-Phyre
You want the alternator secrets? Here's one, with some of the best explanations I've seen yet...
Secrets and Alternators..
-Phyre
Personally, my servers run Linux, and I wouldn't want that POS Windows crap SWALLOWING anything from my network. Linux is my server OS of choice, what difference does it make which or how many versions of their "software" the "code" unlocks? I'll stick with Linux, thanks... Disc 3 of RH9 is almost done downloading too... so, NYEAH! to Micro$haft.
Why heat the tank? #1 reason: It's Minnesota. I'm from there... it's damn cold in the winter.. Nothing quite like a frozen lake of crap in the middle of winter with no way to thaw it out! Besides, heat is also a by-product of the power generator... why simply vent it when it can do something useful?
-Phyre
I hate to be a party pooper, but - if I'm not mistaken - If he wore red glasses while viewing the color tone/tint adjustments, it'd have been biased more in the green/blue spectrum to compensate for the additional red tone he constantly saw.... The glasses would have had to have been yellow for this to logically take place as the source of the "problem"... If I'm wrong, please! Someone provide proof positive! Have a great weekend! -Phyre
I've got a Promise SX6000 - I agree. The cables are a pain, but I've got a 200GB array running six 40G drives in a RAID-5 array.... The price was right... Even if I did have to do a little drilling on my shiny new aluminum case to get this LONG card installed...