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Hack Your Car
gurps_npc writes "The New York Times has this story about hacking your car's chip. You can get significant horse power and torque boosts (+18 horsepower and +70 foot pounds of torque in the given example), as well as improve (or decrease) fuel efficency. The car companies do not like (surprise surprise) people personalizing their vehicle's programming and warn of burning out your engine with bad code, and voiding your warranty."
hackable implies a security hole, and the manufacturer doesn't want you to exploit it.... Microsoft does make cars!!
warn of burning out your engine with bad code, and voiding your warranty
Car manufacturers can be such bullies sometimes. Luckily, there are things such as the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act to help protect consumers.
I would tinker with the insides of any computer, or any electronic device.
But on the other hand, if I make a mistake with a car I could hurt or kill myself.
I think I will just leave them alone and keep hacking my Xbox and Tivo, I cant die if I screw up my Tivo.
warn of burning out your engine with bad code, and voiding your warranty. No different than overclocking and many people have been very successful doing this...
DrkBr
People have been doing this ever since computer controlled fuel injection has been in style.
If you peruse eBay, you'll see people selling replacement chips for around $400 that are supposed to add this many horsepower.
But if you think you're going to get another 70ft/lbs of torque in a Honda Civic by just doing that, think again.
As well, changing these values can be dangerous. I have a friend who quite messed up his Buick Riviera (he added fuel injection) by messing with the values. There was a huge table of values to fill out, and each had to be precicely tuned to achieve the right mix of performance and mileage. This is no easy task.
Vonal Declosion
is it the same warranty voiding that the car company once said you could cause when you don't make your oil change at the dealer ? can't expect those companies to like doing less money :-)
Why are companies so utterly retarded about these things? They should go out of their way to SUPPORT this kind of thing. It provides zero-cost research to the company, and increases value to the customer. Besides, as long as everyone is in understanding that it voids the car's warranty, why would they discourage it?
The same goes for Microsoft and their crappy console, and the thousands of other companies that blatantly spit on their best customers.
My car would run better if it had a fucking dorito installed in it. Stupid mitsubishi.
I also reply below your current threshold.
When I was taking Real-Time programming we discussed car code. The prof said it has a 7 year development cycle and takes about 2 developer hours per assembly instruction to write, test, and debug the code.
I don't see a hacked code being anywhere near as reliable. Even if it makes the changes you want, your car might end up stalling as often as windows crashes.
Jason
ProfQuotes
I don't know what he's talking about. My '86 Toyota Camry doesn't have a chip, except where that modded '04 sports coupe flew by me.
Have been available for years..
This is not news.
Altering Your Engine With New Chips
:P
Hooray, I get to be a whore today!
SIGFEH
The article states that some of these hacked cars are violating state emissions standards. Yet, they also have the ability to reset their cars back to the factory settings whenever they need to. In fact, in some states, newer cars aren't even emissions tested every year because it's presumed they come out okay from the factory.
"But if it wasn't for the smoke, I'd be happy with it," is I think the exact reason why car makers are underclocking the potential power of cars. This could be an enviromental problem waiting to happen if this catches on.
-Hack your microwave: heats up food quicker, allows you to use metal containers
-Hack your toothbrush: reduces brushing time, whitens teeth 5 shades in 2 days and prolongs time between visist to the dentist
-Hack your hacks: increases efficency of hacks without loosing warranty.
etc etc
I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
Well, for what reason are these limitations on horsepower/torque/whatever in the car's computer there in the FIRST place?
Is it because of sloppy and/or conservative programming?
Is it because of a massive conspiracy to lower the efficiency of your car and make you buy more oil?
Or is it maybe-- just maybe-- for totally valid reasons relating to safety and health of the car's internal part things, which is why the car companies were trying to keep you from hacking these things in the first place?
No, they don't want you to hack your own car so that they can sell you an expensive replacement "turbo chip" to do exactly the same thing as this.
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
and don't let it leak out to the internet. No need to follow a bad example
I've been running a chip in my VW for 3 years now. Great gains, fun mod, great bang per buck. My warrenty was long expired and I was fully aware of the added stress from my lead foot from the power increase.
Besides having to run 90+ octane, I love it.
-Eod
NY Times Partner link (no reg required)
I'd die pretty quickly without my Tivo!
DROS - Open-Source Robot Software
this story sounds like a Jeggs commercial on Spike TV.
Next story, the technology used to lip-sync on Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.
Here.
No GNU has been Hurd during the making of this comment.
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
... my 1990 volvo 240.
:)
On second thought, I'd like to see them burn it out
====
Crudely Drawn Games
...then the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that the chipping was the cause of any defect in the event that they want to withdraw the warranty. At least according to here. On the other hand I'm not 100% convinced that's a correct interpretation of this law.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Answer:
First up: I didn't say that drop-in Electronic Control Unit (ECU) upgrades for otherwise stock vehicles were outright fraud, though some companies in that market have certainly been snake oil merchants. I just said that a drop in chip isn't likely to be good value compared with various actual mechanical upgrades. Powerchip, like various other chip vendors, will charge you several hundred Australian bucks for a new chip.
Now that I've said that, dig this.
A while after I put my piece on ECU chips up on the Web, one Wayne Besanko of Powerchip contacted me.
He did not offer any independent evidence to support Powerchip's claims. Nor did he point out anything I'd said that was wrong.
Instead, he offered me money, plane tickets and accommodation if I'd travel to Powerchip's HQ and write a "white paper" on Powerchip's products.
He didn't say "here's a bucket of cash, if you write what we say", but our correspondence led me to the firm belief that, um, only one viewpoint on their products would be acceptable, were I to take up the offer.
So there's that.
And, again, as I write this, I remain unaware of any proper independent testing that indicates that these pricey drop-in ECU chips are good value, compared with a variety of actual mechanical modifications.
Sure, you can get a bit more juice from a stock engine by goosing up the ECU programming; drop-in chips from reputable companies like Powerchip don't generally do nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few cars, particularly turbo diesels, that have sub-optimal stock ECU programming, leaning further towards the "green" end of the scale and away from the "performance" end than their owners would choose, given the option.
The particular oddities of individual engines (in high performance cars, at least) may also benefit significantly from custom-tuned ECU maps, even if you aren't going for new cams, an after-market turbo, blah blah blah.
But drop-in chips aren't tuned for individual engines. They're one-size-fits-all. If you want a chip that fits your car's engine in particular, you have to go to a speed shop that'll test your engine and blow an EPROM to suit.
In the vast majority of cars, I think it's quite sensible to say that if you aren't making significant mechanical modifications to your engine, then the money you'd spend on a "hot chip" would be better put towards those modifications (or, you know, spent on the rent or something, but we're not talking about sensible life choices here). I think that even something as simple as a less restrictive air filter is likely to give you more horsepower per dollar than a hot chip.
Even Powerchip themselves admit (or, at least, did admit at the time I corresponded with Wayne; I haven't groveled through their specs lately) that a 15% power and torque gain from a plain chip swap is unusually high. Figures closer to, or below, 10% are common. Some people would question even that - but even if you get a whole
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
How many products in todays marketplace are running below their peak efficiency?, it's becoming somewhat ridiculous that if you wish to get your full moneys worth out of a product you need to use another product to unlock it.
I would never drive or be a passenger of a car that is running my own firmware.
Never.
Most cars are tuned for a compromise of fuel efficiency, low pollution, and reliability. So these mods will adversely affect these more mundane automotive goals.
On the one hand, these high performance mods probably turn the car into serious emitter of nasty gases.
On the other hand, the added stress probably shortens the lifespan of the engine and gets the car off the road that much sooner.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
i'd expect manufacturers to be happy, especially if you break the car and they get to fix it at their price rate
not worth the effort unless its on a turbo or supercharged engine, and you will violate your warranty.
People have been "chipping" their cars for several years now. In fact, there are several different types of chips, some only replace values of certain addresses while others replace large portions of the computer program.
Some car mfr's and divisions are more willing to allow chipping - such as Fords SVT division.
look, I'm as open source, hacker-friendly as anybody, but I'm not sure I agree with allowing people to hack cars, planes, and the like ..
basically, any technology which has the power to kill me, and is used in primarly public places that I roam in.
can anybody else suggest other technologies that are used in everyday life, owned by most people, and used often in public places that have the power to kill me if they happen to 'go wrong'?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Car tuners have been doing this since the advent of ECU controlled cars... I wouldn't even consider this hacking because it so common. Any reputable car shop can reflash your cars ECU and reprogram a variety of variable from fuel tables, transmission shifts, timing, etc. if it's in the ECU it can be reprogrammed.
Also... on a vehicle from the factory with no aftermarket parts don't expect drastic gains, unless your vehicle is equiped with forced induction and the ECU has the ability to control the wastegate. IE. You're not going to get 50hp by 'hacking' your hondas ECU. More likely you'll get 5-10hp... even then it's usually a trade off of having to use higher octane fuel.
I had my cars ECU reflashed to take advantage of higher octane fuel (increased timing) and recieved 13 rwhp and 15 rwlb/ft.
Much as I may despise Microsoft for their buggy codes, the worst that can happen on my PC is loving information. If the computer 'crashes' I can typically just reset it, for serious break-downs I just need to reinstall the software. "Format C:" solves nearly all M$ errors.
If you mess around with cars it is infinitely more seriously. A car crash is no laughing matter, neither are serious breakdowns. Kill someone and rebooting is not an option.
I might go even further and suggest it should not be legal to do this. At least in the UK, all cars must undergo an annual 'MOT' to determine if they're roadworthy every year, it is illegal to drive a car on public roads that mechanics have not OK'ed. When you drive you put other people's lives at risk, so this is a valid requirement. If people are able to mess around with the code on their machines, then not only can they screw it up, but there is no way for mechanics to tell that things are working fine.
an additional 80ft/lbs and 47hp in my A4, thankyouverymuch...
Aftermarket ECU Chip vendor
This reminds me a bit too much of the "simple free digital cable PPV device" we see spammers selling. You hook it up, you "buy" as many order-with-your-remote shows as you can for a couple months, and then when the bill comes, you see just your base bill with no charges for the shows your watched.
The device blocks the upstream communciations frequencies so your box can't call home, but allow the broadcast frequencies to pass through so you still get watchable signals. However, after a few months, the party's over. The cable company sends down a signal cutting off your service, and tells you you'll have to let the digital box call home before you can watch anything again. Guess what, the box has been keeping count all along. So you pay full price for everything you thought was free, and you're out the money you spent on a worthless device...
If somebody's selling an unathorized upgrade without being willing to stand behind their product, you better watch out. Something's not right with the deal.
Tivos are probably the most dangerous of consumer appliances to service. Very high voltages (up to 5000 V) at potentially very high currents (AMPs) are present when operating - deadly combination. These dangers do not go away even when unplugged as there is an energy storage device - a high voltage capacitor - that can retain a dangerous charge for a long time. If you have the slightest doubts about your knowledge and abilities to deal with these hazards, replace the Tivo or have it professionally repaired.
Careless troubleshooting of a Tivo can not only can fry you from high voltages at relatively high currents but can irradiate you as well. When you remove the metal cover of the Tivo oven you expose yourself to dangerous - potentially lethal - electrical connections. You may also be exposed to potentially harmful levels of television emissions if you run the Tivo with the cover off and there is damage or misalignment to the waveguide to the Tivo chamber.
Just kidding. I got that text from a warning in a guide to microwave repair.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Partly to combat hackers, many carmakers are using encrypted chips in new models or, like Toyota, have done away with removable memory chips altogether. That has the e-mechanics shifting strategies, either by downloading new software directly into the computer's hard drive or attaching separate electronic devices that piggyback on the factory-installed control module and override it. Some of these devices alter the "rev limiter" that prevents engine speed from zooming beyond the red line or remove the speed governor that limits top-end performance.
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
I keep thinking about getting a Toyota Prius, the ones with Bluetooth. But I REALLLY wish they offered a SDK or API to 3rd party developers. Imagine stepping into your car with your Bluetooth equipped iPod, and streaming mp3s to your car stereo? Or your Bluetooth enabled GPS unit, and displaying it on the cards LCD? Or downloading mileage information for reimbursement, or automatically dialing 911 on your cell phone when the emergency system (airbags/whatever) goes off. They could increase the value of the car untold amounts just by harnessing the power of all the coders out there.
with many of these chip mods, your car will no longer pass emissions inspections.
A car engine is a complex, finely tuned piece of equipment where every variable is carefully thought through - and tested the hell out of over several years by their engineers.
You can't expect to go modifying things willy-nilly and expect only gains without losses in other areas - particularly environmental and reliability. This is especially true where you're modifying things like engine tables.
-
Google link
For the price of a generic EPROM, you could easily get mechanical upgrades that enhances your car even more than the EPROM. If you're going for extreme performance, after all the mechanical upgrades, get a special chip made specifically for you.
Dan from DansData has written on it in a much better fashion than I ever could though...
His main "hotchip" article
Scroll down to the EPROM stuff, he addresses his experiences with "Powerchip"
*Sigh* now the NYT is going to cause a bunch of people to waste money. People that don't know enough about cars are going to get preyed on by companies like "powerchip". Just like people in electronics stores that don't know enough about computers.
I am not sure that the car companies don't think that it isn't bad, just that it may not be the best to not do it if you warranty hasn't expired.
That's an A4, which is much more powerful than a Honda Civic.
Honda engines are not torquey at all.
The cheapest A4 1.8T has 166 ft/lbs of torque at peak. The cheapest Civic has 110.
And, with all cars, the more you have base, the more you can add.
Adding just a good intake system to a Ferarri will add up to 60hp. On a Civic, you'll get around 5.
Vonal Declosion
As many others have pointed out, chipping a car is nothing new. However, many people have unrealistic expectations about reprogramming their ECU. In the article, they mostly mentioned turbocharged vehicles like the Jetta TDI or 944 Turbo. The BMW owner mentioned was unsatisfied with the change because naturally aspirated (NA) cars don't benefit well from remapped ECUs.
Modifying a car's ECU mainly just adjusts air/fuel mixture, but on a turbo car it can also increase boost pressure. This is where the main hp gains can be found, but is also where you'll likely blow your engine. A NA car will need more modifications than just a chip to get anymore than a nominal power increase. Intake, headers, and exhaust are all necessary to increase airflow to take advantage of a performance chip. Even then you can generally only expect to make another 10hp at the very top end of your hp curve, and you might even lose torque at lower rpms (torque gets you up to speed, hp keeps you there).
...gains of much more than 13hp 15ft/lb are possible with an aftermarket ECU chip.
As an example, the pre-2001 B5 (platform code) Audi A4 1.8T, when 'chipped', goes from 150hp & 150lb/ft to 197hp & 230ft/lb.
Actually, tivos can be fairly dangerous, since the power supply isn't enclosed like it is in a computer.
Computer chips don't improve vehicle performance. Stickers, spoilers, and exhaust tips improve performance.
I mean, duh...
This has been around forever. I remember back in high school you could get chips for domestic cars, but they didn't really give you a significant HP increase. Now, a lot of the imports are turbocharged, and in most cases, the computer controls the boost level. The GIAC X-chip I have in my S4 takes the HP from 240 up to 312, and almost 400 ft/lbs of torque. Add a few more mods, like replacing the horribly restrictive exhaust and downpipes, and a few other goodies, you're looking at nearly 400hp and 450ft/lbs of torque. Another thing they do is remove the stock speed limiter, which is usually either 130mph or 155mph depending on the car.
There's a company called AEM that makes a replacement OBDII compliant computer that you can program yourself. They have it for several different models of cars, and a general one that you can splice in yourself if they don't make the harness for it. It's a pretty nifty little device. My friend bought one for his 3000GT and it allows you to remap timing, fuel maps, and just about everything else, and you can set thresholds too (for example, if you see knock, dump more fuel, if that doesn't solve it, back off the timing). It requires a lot of tuning to get it working right, but if you've invested the time and money to make your car put out 700hp, it's something you pretty much need.
The thing that pisses me off, is there is currently no one making "tunable" computers for Audi right now. We're stuck with what the vendors feed us. So if I want to go and put some big ass Garrett turbos on my car, I don't have the ability to tune the computer properly to use them. Since I'd need bigger fuel injectors to prevent it from leaning out, a comparable pulse width with the bigger injectors would supply too much fuel and it would run extremely rich or not at all.
In any case, some of the detuning is done for emissions purposes, some is done to reduce horsepower to get it in a lower insurance class, and some is done to avoid the dreaded "gas-guzzler" tax. Generally, the european version of the same car has way more power. My old Eclipse had a small plastic sleeve inside the boost solenoid, that when removed gave an extra few pounds of boost. The old Chevy CK work trucks had a panel over part of the airbox to restrict airflow, and if you removed it you got another 25hp.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
American Product? Then why are the only places it is manufacuted (in any quanity): Hungary(older ones so I doubt it is still made there), Mexico, or China?
My stolen Type-R badge on my 85 Toyota Corrola adds 100hp of "looks fast" speed.
I knew a guy back at school in my undergrad who was insane. The biggest geek and hack you could meet, but a very genuine guy. His mom owned a Suzuki, and he pulled the engine control computer PROM and read it. He managed to reverse-engineer the code and actually found errors in it that would make the engine run non-optimally under certain idle conditions! He then modified the code to correct it and burned a new PROM. His mom actually said that the car ran a bit smoother from that point on.
When you have to fix a manufacturer's coding mistake, it's a pretty sad situation. For the privileged few, it's a very nice and interesting hobby.
"Hacking your car" in this sense is simply replacing the ECU. The ECU is the chip that tells the computer how much fuel to deliver and when to activate the spark plugs.
It's just an EPROM in your car that contains a lookup table that reads your map sensor, temp sensors, alternator, etc, etc.
All they do is replace the EPROM with a more "agressive" table (ie, more fuel).
I am not even close to an expert, I've just looked into this before.
me thinks he's better off sticking to computers than pursuing a career in the automotive field.
Manufacturers build in a given factor of safety overdesign to reduce the amount of warranty repairs they have to foot the bill for. They also design a vehicle holistically - The engine will not produce more power than the brakes can handle, the factory alignment won't allow a low-performance driver to get in trouble.
Just because a fishtank valve can give a Supra another 100hp, does not mean the rest of the equation is up to the task.
That said, i've seen some VERY impressive software upgrades in deisel pickups. I only wonder if the radiator is up to cooling the uprated potential heat generated and if the transmission is capabile of living under the added stress.
(in the interests of fair reporting, this comes from a guy who built a 475 hp/500 ft-lb Corvette...and upgraded teh brakes at the same time...only to be stuck with a tranny bill when said motor had it's way with it.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Chrysler's hacking their own cars here... I've got a Chrysler PT Cruiser, one of the original models, and a year or so ago it was recalled. The main thing they did was a firmware upgrade - it has quite a bit more acceleration now, and doesn't seem to have bothered the gas mileage.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Ever wonder why, year after year, vehicles seem to "gain" HP with the same stock engine? That's because PCMs (power control modules) are programmed to artificially hinder a vehicle's performance. By tweaking timing parameters, shift points, etc., manufacturers can "gain" HP year after year without having to retool for engine modifications.
/. nor the NYTimes to be premier source of automotive knowledge.
Chip/PCM programmers operate by simply modifying the same tables as the manufacturer modifies when they want more HP for marketing purposes. It should be no surprise that the manufacturers are dead set against this.
As for emissions, the new engines and computer systems monitor all aspects of the emissions system. Many states simply plug into the OBD-II computer for later-model vehicles and check to make sure no "fault" codes are set -- that's the extent of "emissions testing." To make an assertion that any modification to the PCM will cause emissions to increase is simply showing one's ignorance as to how today's vehicles operate.
BTW, the OBD-II interface and protocol is an open protocol, available at cost from the SAE. There's nothing "secret" about how these PCMs operate. Of course, I wouldn't consider
You don't get anything for free.
I can't believe this is news. Chipping your car is as old as chipping your PS2 - maybe older. I have friends that were chipping their cars ten years ago. Maybe this is one aspect of technology that geeks really don't care about?!?
Are you worried it will crash?
Here all cars get tested every two years. After a certain age (it is either 20 or 25, too lazy to GIS) they won't bother testing.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
They did an article about this last year in the times in the Thursday Circuits section thaking mostly about http://www.hondata.com/ these guys. Good read about what not to do (put it in or try to calibrate if you don't understand what "emergent properties" are or what some of the variables might do) Maybe someone has it archived with a pointer. Or feels like paying the NYT 5 bucks for it.(not)
[KARMA]a man's character is his fate - Heraclitius[/KARMA]
A lot of Ford's product line has moved to Electronic Throttle Control with "Oak" family Powertrain Control Modules. These modules are not something that is hackable. In fact if it detects anything out of the ordinary, it will place your vehicle in a limp-home mode. This will force you to go to a dealer for help and will void your warrenty.
Just wait until it comes to your state. Instead of sniffing the exhaust while the vehicle runs on a dynamometer, the PCM on 96-up vehicles is hooked up to a scanner. The scanner looks to see how many readiness monitors are not set. Depending on the year, it can be as few as one. Just because the check engine light is out doesn't mean that the vehicle will pass.
Here's a good place to start;
http://www.obdiicsu.com/
Take a look at the drive traces to see what it's like to get certain readiness monitors to pass. The tuner crowd better find a good source for counterfeit stickers!
I once had a problem with my car's computer (it kept on getting a spurious constant 'cold start' signal from a broken coolant sensor) that caused it to redline the engine for a minute or two at random times, regardless of accelerator setting.
Once I was waiting at a Zebra crossing and this really old lady -- the type that is one step away from needing a walking frame -- was walking along. She gets to right in front of me, and then what does my engine do? It ROARS to the redline, and sat there until she finished walking across.
The car was sitting in neutral, with my foot on the brake, so it didn't move at all, and she was safe. But that day I discovered the meaning of the term: 'a dirty look'.
I can't speak for everyone, or every car here, but...
while many domestic cars are naturally aspirated, their imported cousins are often turbocharged. A chip can give a small performance improvement in a NA car/truck, but the real kicker is for the turbo'd cars...often times gains of 40-70hp or more are possible. Those posters who are giving knee-jerk reactions and saying that the car will not pass inspections and such, you're wrong. I belong to several car forums, and I've heard many stories of people getting _better_ gas mileage after chipping their cars. I'm not sure about regulations outside the US, but many chip manufacturers guarantee their chips will pass inspection.
I hope this provides an alternative viewpoint to the slashbots...
A while ago I used to play the multiplayer arcade game "Sega mega rally championship". I guess a few of you readers have played that game as well.
In this game you have a cheat, the rear wheel drive hack. Once you start a single player game, you can hit the camera button, shift to gear 1,2,3,4 then hit the gas pedal and press the start button. At this moment you'll hear a clear "swhoosh" sound confirming that the cheat works. At this point you can play the game with better accelleration and better performance in every turn.
Now, this cheat kind of works on the BMW 750 as well. A friend of mine did a similar cheat, and it was something like hitting the pedal, shifting into reverse (automatic trasmission) while doing something else (sorry I can't rembmer). A this point he turned the injection into full throttle forcing the car to full performance at all time, giving him maxium performance at drag racing.
Fun ride though.
www.6502asm.com - Code 6502 assembly or.. DIE!!
However removing the 110mpg /180km speed limit is easy.
:)
There is no point driving 140km, because the cops are going to catch you. I you are going to drive fast you need to drive atleast 175km or above. The the only way you are going to get caught is helocopiers and road blocks. Both take time to put in place. And if they never get a fix you your license, "mud / grease covered".
While they have some effect on the environment, the simple fact is emissions standards are promoted far more to drive used cars out of the marketplace than to protect the environment.
And also, I wouldn't worry about voiding the warranty. They often design those chip boards with very special capacitors, the kind that are likely to burn out after 5 years when the payments run out anyhow. Funny thing is that if you know what you're doing you can switch it out for $5, but if not you gotta pony up $600 mininum for a new board from the factory.
1) Always add fans. Also, consider putting a blowhole in the roof of the car to exhaust the extra heat generated by the overclocked engine.
2) Heatsinks are a must. Heatsinks are available for manifolds, carborators, engine blocks, oil pans, etc. Use them.
3) Don't forget to show off what you've done-- install a clear window in your hood, and light your air cleaner with cool black neon lights so everyone around can marvel at your overclocked beast.
4) Unfortunately, most cars already take advantage of the latest in liquid cooling technology, so there's nothing to be gained there. Some lucky cars (for example, old VW Beetles) are not watercooled, so you may be able to enhance the performance of your classic bug by retrofitting a liquid cooling system.
5) Always wear one of those goofy looking wrist dealies. I don't know exactly what they do, but do let others know that you are working on getting the max power out of your machine.
You are a boner. So are all the rest of you worriers that think your car can "crash". Educate yourself before blindly fearing and wanting government regulation. Don't fear what you don't understand, get educated first then worry about fear.
/. but I suppose it has. Automotive ECU's are some of the most reliable systems on the planet next to medical. Your car has many failsafes, including limp mode, so when your new ecu programming borks and the engine runs wrong, it goes into a default mode of fueling, ignition advance, and boost regulation if the car is FI so that it runs "ok" enough to get to a dealer.
Your car won't "crash". Worse case scenario, you blow your motor up or it runs horribly, misfires, and pings while still being drivable. If you chip your car completely wrong, it just won't start. It won't magically drive over other cars and take control of the steering!
Then you get to stuff a new motor in it out of pocket. It's not going to lock you inside and take you for a ride over a cliff.
The car can't really "crash". Embedded systems, and ECU's control fuel maps, timing and boost pressure release on forced induction applications.
This is purely engine running fundamentals. I drive a volkswagen VR6 that has been chipped for 200k miles, and it runs like new. The warranty cop out is just so car companies don't have to pay for problems that arise, in reality ecu timing, fueling and etc. is relatively harmless when done right, and if a chip tuner wrote bogus code, you bet he'd own up to the damage quick.
I figured this ignorance would not end up here on
The truth is that turbocharged cars can benefit greatly from aftermarket ECUs, or "chipped" stock ECUs. There are lots of options out there, and gains of 80HP just from a chip are not unheard.
I have verified these claims myself using my own car and the local 4WD dyno. In the case of my car, the tuner claimed a 57 crank HP improvement, and an extra 93ftlbs (also measured at the crank). What I found is that these numbers are, in fact, conservative. I have the dyno plots on my computer and would be more than happy to post them if any critics or skeptics want to be shot down.
And it is already water cooled! Woo hoo!
Doh. Why did slashdot post me as an anonymous coward? All that work for nothing NOTHING!!!
> This is not news.
it's an expository article. it's news to some people. more importantly, it's an excuse to discuss a technical topic. just relax and keep scrolling.
Chips can make a big different in cars with computer-controlled turbos. A very common example of this is the Volkswagen/Audi 1.8T engine. In the 2000 model year (when my dad bought his Passat) it was around 150hp. The next year it was 180. I'm pretty sure they didn't change the engine, just the software.
A great 1.8T chip I saw in action actually had 4 settings. There was stock (and supposedly in stock setting a computer scan wouldn't find out that the chip wasn't the original chip), an increased HP setting (taking the 1.8T from 180 to 220 or so I think), a race setting (for use with race fuel) and a "valet" setting that actually dropped almost all the boost and took the engine to somewhere around 100hp. The owner told me that on the increased boost setting it actually got better milage. What this does to the engine lifetime I have no idea.
No my engine, a VR6, wouldn't see such dramatic gains from a chip. And now that it has over 120K miles on it I wanna make sure it gets me home safely rather than getting every last bit of performance out of it...
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Many compromises are made in designing the control systems, and a mod chip just selects a different set of compromises. Some of these are:
Of these, manufacturing cost (and emissions, if you're environmentally inconsiderate) are they only compromises for which your criteria are likely to be different from those of the manufacturer, and hence the ones where aftermarket modifications might help. I don't see why the particular firmware in the chip would affect manufacturing cost, so it boils down to the other issues.Ignition timing. Advanced ignition timing may result in higher performance, but also may cause pre-ignition (knock) which will damage your engine unless you use premium fuel.
Fuel economy.
Driveability - throttle lag, stumbling, rough idle, run-on, are all issues of concern.
Emissions. High combustion temperatures send NOx emissions through the roof.
Maintenance intervals.
Longevity.
Manufacturing cost.
+18 horsepower and +70 foot pounds of torque ....Play D&D much?
Despite the danger of exposing my lack of knowledge about cars... Would my 1994 Chevy C1500 truck have any replacable/reprogrammable chips? I am particulaly interested in INCREASING my fuel efficiency regardless of performance decrease. I put 100+ miles a day on my truck, 90% in-town driving. I am also interested in fixing the cruise control so it doesnt go into overdrive (down shift, up-throttle) when going up even the slightest of hills.
I have not read the article, because I am currently too lazy. But I bet you anything, if it hasn't mentioned anything about installing Linux in your car, somebody's going to get a crazy idea from this and try to pull it off. What use it would be, I have no idea.
http://mediagoblin.org/
A) This is old old news. I don't know how long this has been around but for atleast 5 years. B) Reporgraming a chip or putting in a mod chip is dangerous but I think in most situations there are professionaly done mod chips you can get installed. Most of these chips are done with careful R&D and testing (although like any firmware some revisions aren't so hot). An example of this is the many chips available for the 1.8 litter turbo charged VW/Audi engine. A simple mod chip gained alot of horsepower. Why? VW tuned down the turbo so that the horsepower figures did not infringe on the "higher" horsepower V6 (which is alot more expensive). Now this is a mod chip that many many people put in with little problems. Using these chips increase fuel effeciency by utilizing the turbo more. I had one of these chips for my 1.8t VW passat (98 FYI) for a while and it worked perfectly. Of course I needed more speed which lead to a bigger turbo (KO4 vs stock KO3) and a race chip (Garret). Again both changes have been trouble free for the last three years. Using a professional chip in your car is a relativly safe thing to do (long term wear, stress not withstanding) but I would think it would be abvious for some one to just start reprograming their car with out extensive knowledge and equipment.
LS1Edit is awesome for tuning LS1 based motors. Now I know there will be The Faithful who laugh at it because it isn't Open Source. I'm still learning it but I full expect to hit 420RWHP and 400+ RWTQ on 00 Z28 with it. Granted I've got lots of other parts, but for the nerd who loves power you just can't go wrong with tuning your own car via your laptop. Though I really don't consider it hacking, I'm just changing values in data maps. The real hacking is done by the guy who writes LS1Edit.
-- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
A couple of years ago a car magazine down here in Oz started playing with various chips and a standard family car (Commodore can't remember which model or which year) and after all the tests they found that the silly thing had more horsepower running the bog stock chip with a higher octane fuel.
mind you the standard unleaded is pretty low octane down here about 86 - 88 i think, but if I'm wrong please will correct me on this.
why not extend the control up to a little UI that is accessible from the driver's seat? Assuming the car will respond to "hot" changes in chip instructions, you could, for instance, drive around most of the day in great gas mileage mode, but when you notice you're being chased by Guido the Killer Pimp, you can make an immediate adjustment to max horsepower. After you get away, you switch back to economy mode because you'll burn up your engine if you don't.
who's moderating the meta-moderators?
I turned off all the o2 and egr/air systems and all readiness bits are always set. works great.
:)
drive up smelling like gross polluter (no cats), and plug in, PASS, drive off.
Werd to obd-ii only emissions, way better than the roller emissions.
It's easy to hack OBD-II. It's just code to set the readiness and turn off rear o2 sensors and cat/egr/air crap.
sniffing the exhaust is far worst, they'd notice the lack of catalyst
I love that people are getting up in arms about modding vs. car safety and citing the Big Smart Engineers at the Important Car Companies for being so safety concious. This is crap. Cars are designed to do a job for as cheap as they can be made. There are thousands of recalls ever year. Not thousands of cars recalled, but thousands of recalls ordered. The auto industry is littered with the wreckage of disaterous design decisions (most recently, exploding tires, exploding gas tanks, and making millions of cars with Wilt Chamberlin's center of gravity). Screw "older and wiser". I swear by the Gothenberg Bible, not my Volvo owner's manual. Note: Volvo, so safetly is obviously important to me but not enough for me to shriek "What About the Children!!" when it comes to upping the psi on my turbo or installing aftermarket shocks and struts for tighter handling. If you put in the time and effort to understand the system, why not hack it? If there isn't the potential to improve it, I frankly have no interest in owning it.
[KARMA]a man's character is his fate - Heraclitius[/KARMA]
Perhaps you can find the tables in the code, and tweak the various values in them, just like a previous generation of car hackers would tweak all the little knobs and screws on mechanical fuel and air systems, but without the benefit of the testing and experimentation and such that the OEM did, you're pretty much working in the dark as far as guessing the actual constraints. How far can you push it before it burns out, or goes to fast-black-smoke mode? How many scratch engines are you going to burn up to find out?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Hard drive? Unlikely!
Gotta love those neophyte journalists - everything is "downloading" or a "hard drive".
"I downloaded the document to this hard disk."
"You typed that up just now, I saw you. No downloading necessary. And this isn't a hard disk, it's a 3.5" floppy. By the way, take your damn coffee out of the DVD tray."
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
At least in Denmark.
Especially truckers like it as they get better fuel economy and more horse power. Same is true for regular cars.
The thing is, and this is what the car manufacturers are complaining about, is
1) Chip tuned cars run hotter, thereby wearing out the engine far faster than usual
2) Chip tuned cars have far higher emisions than non-tuned cars
Number 1 is an issue for the manufacturer because people complain that their car breaks down faster.
Number 2 is an issue for society as a whole, because the cars pollute FAR FAR worse than normal. We're not talking 5 - 15% more, we're talking 500 to 1,500% more according to the studies I've seen from independent testers in Denmark.
So no - chip tuning a cars isn't as innocent as overclocking your CPU.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
I'm still trying to get Linux to run on my Bosch toaster oven!
Years ago I owned a '77 Camaro with a small block 350. I didn't know a thing about cars then. One of my first projects was to try to replace the stock carburetor with a Holley 4 barrel from an SS Monte Carlo. It actually fitted and only required a couple bends in the control wires to get it to work. I cranked the engine and was greeted by this sweet purring sound. Oooh yeah.
About thirty seconds later I noticed flames shooting from the engine. Crap. Thinking it was something with the carburetor, I tried to fix and re-install the stock unit using a carburetor rebuild kit. It seemed simple enough -- replace a few springs, a float, clean some parts. I got everything back together and bolted the rebuilt carburetor into place. Cranked the engine. Sputter. Cough. Then my whole engine caught on fire as gasoline was leaking everywhere. The flames died pretty quickly but it scorched a bunch of parts. So I had to put the Holley back in place. I did, but noticed that the gasket was torn. Hell, I thought, if I tighten the bolts up enough there's no way any gas could leak from the seal...
Was I ever wrong.
What other stupid things have I done?
I once forget to re-attach the lawn mower blade before testing the engine I'd just rebuilt. The funniest thing happened. Apparently the mass of the lawnmower blade is enough to slow down the RPMs of the engine. If the blade is removed the lawnmover spins very, very, VERY quickly. And just as quickly wrecks the engine. Lots of little coat-hanger like wire just flies out. And there's no way to get them back inside. I was trying to tweak the damned thing to spin a little faster...
What ECU? My 1984 Chevy Van G20 doesn't have one. And ya know what? I'm happy! All that electronic MESS just serves to throw more chaos into a system that's designed around EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.
Why bother with electronics, when you can do something that's time tested and proven -- mechanics. For every advantage electronics give you, there's an associated disadvantage -- Biggest disadvantage? More things can go wrong at any given moment in time, and the older the electronics, the more prone it is to failure and the harder it is to come by replacement parts.
This simple maxim is just as true for stock cars as it is for modded cars. Case in point: My 1983 Nissan 280ZX is fuel injected, so it has an ECU. It has a stalling problem, yet all of the mechanics are fine. The problem is electrical -- most likely related to the ECU, but I'm not going to go pay someone $400 to find it, and then charge me a buttload more to fix it.
With my van, since everything is mechanical, it's easy to find the problem... symptoms are fewer when a problem occurs... There's not too much guesswork in diagnosing it.
Want to upgrade? Easy as pie. New cam, intake, exhaust system and a good quality carb. My choice? Edelbrock. Everything's designed to match, so the guesswork's been taken care of.
Top that with an ECU upgrade that you'll pay just as much for as I did for the entire mechanical upgrade, and I'll guarantee you I have a buttload more HP per dollar spent.
And I also guarantee I'll win in any tug of war against your Honda Civic.... Replacement bumpers anyone?
-Phyre
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thom
where an "open source model" just doesn't work. gov't regulations mean that the car companies have already tweaked the hell out of their engine computers to meet the demands of emissions, need for power, durability, etc. i hardly think there's anything meaninful or rather practical that an outsider could contribute.
You really can hack real stuff! Get your hands dirty, try things out, don't just spend all your time in front of a screen. Go to Burning Man, meet babes, do woodwork and risky art projects, try gardening, cook with ingredients you've never used before, make beer, spend time in the real world!
There are things you shouldn't do to cars unless you know what you're doing, and maybe that means taking an evening class in auto mechanics at some nearby high school. Brakes, for instance, are things that you should be really really sure about before doing anything other than looking at them or refilling fluids, and steering's kind of that way. If a car won't stop, that's bad, but if it won't go anywhere, that's not good, but at most it's usually just money and hassle. So don't be afraid of working on the engine. Of course, that was better advice back when I was in college, when cars had real parts like carbs and distributors instead of just computer controls, and the cars I could afford mostly needed to have their real parts tinkered with a lot to keep them happy. I never got really deeply into it, because I wasn't that good at it (:-), but it's still worth playing with a bit, just to know what's going on.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Some of these guys get really carried away - their cars go from being street legal to being essential rally race cars. Some do really insane things (I ran across one guy's website while on a Sterling engine search - he built small steam and Sterling engines in his shop. He was doing a Z-28 engine swap and things got outta hand - ended up modding the engine from a 4-cyl to an V-8 smaller and lighter than the original engine, with 250hp to boot - in a Z-28!).
Most just like modding their cars. This likely won't ever change - though I think it may go underground in the future. There is a movement afoot by manufacturers to make it as difficult as possible for you to do anything to your car - I had one guy comment to me here on /. that there was an Audi which you couldn't open the hood to change the fluids! A little flip panel was the only access for this. So, you're likely to see in the future gearheads actually "hacking" their cars (cutting torch and angle-grinder/saw - yah!). What will be interesting to see will be future gearheads modding hybrids and electrics for performance or efficiency gains. We will likely see some tricks the engineers don't think of, just like we do today, and like we did in the past...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
One major aspect to a vehicle's engine 'calibration' is the drivability.
I worked for the big-3 and had friends who did their own calibrations for their race cars with the aid of calibration engineers. These guys really struggled to maintain drivability. Little stuff like bucking and surging when you pull forward in a drive through lane, etc. Getting it right under all load conditions and RPMS.
Tweaking for power is one thing, but getting the drivability right is much more time consuming and difficult.
The throttle response and tractability of my Z06 was so good that I'd never consider messing that up for a little more power and rougher running, etc.
and for those who answer 'just get a bigger/faster car' why don't you just get a brand new PC instead of just changing the CPU ? ;-)
-- If you actually say LOL instead of laughing, maybe it's time to go outside! --
For those of you who are surprised, let me tell you have people have been tweaking chips for a good number of years. You can get aftermarket chips for pretty much any sports (and not so sports) car. However, the biggest gains are achieved only when you combine an upgraded chip with a number of performance parts such as headers, exhausts, turboes and superchargers. If you do not understand how cars work and have not done any performance tuning, you might be better off by going back to hacking your Linux box.
First of all, there are no cheap power gains. Just replacing a chip will not turn your grocery-getter into a Porsche. Secondly, if you do get enough extra ponies, you will have to upgrade your suspension and brakes; otherwise, I will see you in a telephone pole around the corner. Finally, not every engine can hanle a lot of horsepower, that is, even if you do upgrade everything but leave the block in a stock condition, you will have a greater chance of blowing it.
Normally, you would install any performance parts that you have and then tune the chip so it is optimized for your configuration. Is the chip worth the money by itself? Unless your car has forced induction it is; otherwise, it is a waste. Normally, you have to do a combination of things in order to get a significant increase in power. For example, Stage 1 upgrades include getting a new ECU and increasing pressure in your turbos, Stage 2 would require an additional part, usually an exhaust. Stage 3 may require changing your turbos or getting some upgrades for them; by the time you get to this point, you will notice the impact on your wallet. This varies from car to car, my knowledge is based on what I know about Nissan 300ZX and Subaru WRX.
If you do not have turbos or a blower, there is nothing much your chip can do, but void the warranty.
Also, when you get the stats, make sure that you understand them correctly. Ten extra horses to the flywheel are not equal to the ten extra horses to the wheels. If you are still nutty about all this, take a look what you can do to Subaru WRX, Audi (turboed models) and Corvettes. The latter do not have forced induction but are proven to be very nice when it comes to updated ECUs along with some performance parts. P.S.: Yeah, if you feel like replying back to me and telling that your Honda does wonders with upgraded chips and how it can beat anything on the road. Do not bother, please. I have been there and done that.
LMAO Guido the Killer Pimp.
He's probably who the Hollywood execs send after you for hacking your Tivo.
> why not extend the control up to a little UI that is accessible from the driver's seat
:-)
Most people I know who are serious about this drive with a laptop on the passengers seat and are constantly tweaking things. When they get it right they burn a chip.
And what's with all the "one bad bolt and your dead" crap? You guys are a bunch of candy-assed wooses about this stuff!
Need Mercedes parts ?
"Toyota, have done away with removable memory chips altogether. That has the e-mechanics shifting strategies, either by downloading new software directly into the computer's hard drive"
I hope not, I remember the Top Gear episode where Clarkson tried (and failed) to trash an old Toyota pickup. Imagine if a cars engine management computer used a hard disk, run over the first pothole in the road and it'd be ruined (although it certainly brings a whole new meaning to the term "harddrive crash")
I've been messing around with the Greddy Emanage in my RX-8. It is a piggy back ECU that can manage fuel, and ignition. So far, i've been able to pump out 37 more RWHP with "safe" tuning.
Of course, the RX-8 was de-tuned when they brought it into the US, so the cat-converters would last the required 100,000 miles. (Rotary's exhaust is very,very hot... it can and does eat cats for lunch)
With a wide-open exhaust, intake, and more tweeks to the piggyback , i bet I could get the RX-8 to 260RWHP.
1.3L, 3 moving parts, 280 HP, no Turbos, wanna Race? RotaryNe
You know, the ones that retard engine performance at low revs, and then give you 'normal' performance at higher revs. These are sold typically to rice boys who want to experience that 'burst' of power when they put their foot to the floor :-)
Watch out for the Broken windSheild Of Death.
Let me tell you a true story:
The 2002 MINI Cooper S (a **GREAT** car BTW) was delivered with Engine management (ECU) software V1.3.0. It worked fine.
The 2003 MINI Cooper S was delivered with ECU software V1.3.2. We believe the changes were to accomodate the Diesel version of the MINI that was due to appear in Europe - but there may have been other changes too.
v1.3.2 worked well - EXCEPT when the high ambient temperatures of a Texas summer combined with 'Reformulated Gasoline' (not sold in all US States - and not seen in Europe). With that combination of conditions, the car would roll forwards 10 feet and stall if you accellerated moderatly hard from a standing start. This came to be known as 'the stumbles'. When it strikes, it can actually be quite dangerous because you could in all likelyhood be stalled out right in front of an oncoming vehicle.
Both ECU electronics and engine mechanics are IDENTICAL between the 2002 and 2003 models - so this had to be a software bug.
It took a LONG time to figure out why some cars were stumbling. The owners' clubs first noticed that only 2003 cars did it - then we discovered this was only happening in the summer - and only in Texas and (IIRC) Florida - but then we heard that it wasn't happening in New Mexico. So we initially ruled out the 'high temperature' theory. However, New Mexico doesn't have reformulated gas.
So when we realised that reformulated Gas is sold in Texas and Florida - but not in New Mexico, we thought that might be the issue...but then we found that it didn't happen in New York (reformulated gas - but no high temperatures).
The whole thing was also confused by the fact that the MINI's ECU has adaptive software. When we had a few days of cool temperatures, the problem DIDN'T go away - and you had to run three tankfuls of non-reformulated gas through the car before the ECU would un-learn the stumble.
It's a tribute to the 'community' spirit of MINI owners (and lots of long threads on several mailing lists) that we ever figured out WTF was happening to our cars at all.
It took six months to pursuade BMW/MINI that there was truly a problem (by which time temperatures had dropped and we couldn't reproduce the problem) - and another 6 months for them to fix it and get a software upgrade out.
Meanwhile, the 2002 MINI's were still running V1.3.0 just fine in all temperatures and all gasoline types - and 2003 MINI's were stumbling all over the place.
Owners of 2003 machines were begging the dealerships to downgrade their cars back to the 2002 code - but dealerships were either unable or unwilling to do that - we're still not quite sure why - but it's likely that the security system in the MINI's ECU somehow prevents that.
This is a CLASSIC case where we'd have *killed* to have an OpenSource solution so we could fix the problem ourselves...either by simply reprogramming our 2003 cars with 2002 software (kindly donated by a 2002 owner)...or by doing a 'diff' and figuring out what was actually wrong.
Even without the source code, it would have been possible to do a binary dump from one car to another - but for the fact that these ECU's are protected by a barrage of 'challenge/response' tests (the details of which are a closely guarded secret). If your laptop fails to provide the correct response to the challenge, the car literally shuts down all software functions for THREE HOURS!! This effectively foils any effort to do a trial-and-error test to reverse-engineer the challenge/response system.
So - whilst it MIGHT be dangerous to allow people to randomly hack their cars, there are also dangers in preventing them from doing so.
www.sjbaker.org
700/5 = 140m/s^2
The only changes have been peripheral - improved exhausts and induction systems.
A competing manufaturer takes the same vehicle off the production line (Corsa) and sell a modified production vehicle that last time I checked was rated at 333Kw. Their main method of boosting the performance was to use their own engine management system rather than the 'stock' supplied unit. Their vehicles pass the same safety tests as Holden, and are in no danger of dying due to being tweaked.
Chipping your engine will not necessarily kill it. Manufacturers compromise on output to get the mileage figures down, and to make it more difficult for ignorant drivers to kill the car. If you know enough about what you are doing to have your vehicle chipped, then you probably know enough not to kill the vehicle.
.. I guess I'll have to boost my horsepower the old fassion way with better engine components.
---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"
There are a lot of "open source" fuel injection computers out there (ignition too). If your really interested in making more power and hacking, join on to one of these projects. Perhaps someday someone will make an aftermarket odd fire ignition computer that I can program. In the mean time, check out these projects
MegaSquirt Electronic Fuel Injection Computer
Electronic fuel injection 11
PowerPC fuel injection
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Like my car (a Saturn) which has a down-tuned engine in it. The version of the engine in the Saturn puts out about 180hp, but in the version in the Opel, it puts out 200 or so (thanks GM). Don't know why that is - insurance, emissions, who knows.
Anyway, a company in Florida apparently imports the Opel chips and will put them in the engine in the Saturn - although I've not read a report on effects.
To be honest, I wouldn't do it for several reasons, not least that the bank owns the car; it's still under warranty; its torque and gearing means it smokes most similar cars off the line anyway; and I'm not sure I'd want my family in a modded car!
And beings as it costs $400 for that, plus whatever tweakery is extra, I'd rather drop the money into a bitchin' sound system.
Except that for $400-ish, I purchased a chip for my '91 turbo Audi. Stock it makes 217hp, now it makes more like 280, and it's faster than the V6 biturbo S4(1999-2003).
In fact, it was faster than all current Audi production vehicles until this year, when the RS6 V8 biturbo(450hp) and new S4(340hp V8) came out. For about another $1.5k or so, I can get about 330hp(new turbo and other bits) and since my car's lighter than a new S4 by quite a bit, it'd be faster yet again(save the RS6).
For turbocharged cars(and some supercharged), a chip often yields sizable performance gains and is -excellent- value for the money. However, careful selection is necessary- in this case, the programmer is very well known in the Audi community and people had been running his specific chip for about 10 years(it's a 13 year old car, after all!)
Please help metamoderate.
First off, chipping cars generally doesnt produce big gains EXCEPT with factory turbo cars.
This is because the pressure produced with the turbo is often controlled by a the computer, and altering the settings will raise the amount of air and fuel and thus the horsepower. Since modern turbos usually have fairly large air pumping capacity, the gains are quite large. A great example is the SRT4- the first 2 (warrantied!) factory upgrade stages are just a comptuer and injector swap which raises the boost. They massively overbuilt the drivetrain anticipating that people would engage in such acts.
This usually produces big gains in power, but can cause problems in two cases:
1) The turbo is very small compared to the engine and the turbo has to be overspun to produce a gain in power. This has been a big problem for the v6 twin turbo audi S4 and the 1.8T powered VW/Audi cars. They use extremely undersized turbos (to reduce lag) but this makes them very frail at high boost levels. This is why audi is going to a non-turbo V8 for the next version of the S4. Warranty claims are very hard to deny if the factory chip is swapped back in and the only damage is a pair of failed turbos. Its obvious what happened, but impossible to prove, especially when so many people are reporting these "random failures."
2) The engine internals or drivetrain are too frail. This tends to be far less common (since these parts are usually overengineered), but it does happen, especially on AWD turbo cars with decent sized turbos, like the AWD DSMs from the mid-early 90s (eclipse/laser/etc). These accidents tend to be very expensive, so the dealerships are usually a bit more careful about springing for warranty work. Often the damning evidence is the massively upgraded clutch which sent the power to the transmission, or the poorly tuned engine which melted a piston top or a valve.
On a car that isnt a factory turbo, all you can do is advance timing and adjust fuel delivery. Timing advance usually yields a little power but fuel delivery only yields power if the stock configuration is extremely rich (like on the Sentra Spec-V) or if the engine's volumetric efficiency is changed (cams/turbo/supercharger/etc added).
This second use is usually what a computer change is used for on a n/a car.
for people who don't know which end of the screwdriver to hit.
- Drive away in your own Plywood Fury, with two barrel carbonmaker and brand new gladiator...
What?
The emissions from engines that meet the current on-the-road standards for diesel and gasoline engines in the US are roughly equal in released toxicity per unit of fuel burned.
. pd f
http://www.osti.gov/fcvt/deer2002/mauderlypaper
Diesel fuel is somewhat more energy-dense than gasoline, so you're actually better off with a modern diesel engine. Sure, the old diesel engines were nasty, but the new ones are cleaner-burning than a conventional gas engine.
Plus, the particles in diesel exhaust tend to be larger, so they're less likely to become lodged in your lungs. Handy, that...
All of which is besides the point-- tuning engines for higher performance is directly correlated with increased emissions. It takes more time and gives lower returns to more completely combust the fuel as opposed to just throwing more fuel in.
Unburned hydrocarbons = bad news.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
This has been about as a phenomenonon for some while. Sometime in the early 90s I remember blowing a big run of EPROMS for a guy, well you know because I had an EPROM programmer and UV eraser which aren;t common it was a nice little job and I charged per device rate for copying them. I knew he was selling them, but like a dutiful hacker I didn't initially ask what they were (assuming pirate games ROMs). However each
of the masters had a sticker with the model of a car (newest Fords and Audis I vaguely recall).
Well when I did finally mention it, that's what they were... souped-up firmware replacements for the boy racers. Glad to see this art is still alive.
The code IS reverse engineered. At our performance shope we dump all the machine code and document it heavily. We have logic flowcharts. We know what the parameters do based off of how the factory diagnostic tools read information from the computers. We use dynomomters, extra sensors, torque measuring dynos, and data acquisition equipment. Sometimes you find out the limits of a car that is being tuned/developed specifically for racing and you tune consumer cars much more conservatively.
Rats would be more funny if they could fart.
People have been doing exactly this same thing with carbureted V8s equipped with "ancient" centrifugal advance distributors. Changing ignition timing can be as simple as turning a screw or replacing a spring, aftermarket carburetors offer a near limitless amount of tunability. If you buy used, you can pick up all of the necessary hardware for a fraction of the cost of a full EFI system. For the sake of comparison...
An air valve with a throttle position sensor (throttle body), large injectors, higher capacity fuel pump, mass air/speed density sensor (to measure amount of incoming air): $1200-2500 depending on
Any high quality aftermarket carburetor on ebay (the venerable Holley 600cfm 4 barrel vacuum secondary is available for a little bit of nothing.): $30-300 + $30 for a rebuild kit if necessary.
That leaves you with money to spend on what's truly important to both durability and performance: a bulletproof rotating assembly, a high performance camshaft, pistons, pushrods, etc etc.
And you know what? Their numbers are so small, and the cars aren't THAT far off(proper power requires engines be in good shape!) that this is a non-issue. What's an issue is the millions of trucks, trains and ships burning high-sulfur diesel fuel...or the clowns who drive around with their cars belching blue smoke. Then there are the SUVs which of course are nearly exempt from emissions testing! Don't get me started about the coal burning power plants...
Optimum power is achieved on a slightly richer than perfect fuel ratio, and yes, that will cause a modified car to go over the limits set by the state emissions tests. However, under most other conditions, the cars are fine emissions-wise.
Sorry, but the tree-huggers have gone too far in many cases; they're yapping not just about SUVs but they expect everyone else to turn in their cars and drive Honda Insights. It's disgusting. As a result of all this, so many awesome cars can't be brought to the states simply because they don't meet our emissions tests...even though they'd represent a tiny fraction of the cars on the road, possibly be driven less than average...not to mention, more likely to be kept in excellent condition(ie, not get left burning oil for a year or two until it finally explodes). But no-sir, you're .01% over on the HC's, you can't register that! No sir, your car's manufacturer didn't go through full EPA testing! Even worse, homebuilt cars are coming under increasingly strict reg's too; in some states, it's getting to be virtually impossible to have your own home-built car, because you can't get it to pass inspection.
Lastly, lots of chips pass emissions specifications(not just the gas-station test) just fine- the problem is that the certification process is very expensive, so not every tuner can afford to do it.
Please help metamoderate.
A 57 hp gain (at the wheels) from a chip upgrade.
Depending what engine this is quite huge, I think you're likely putting quite a bit of stress on it, and you will have the reduced reliability because of this.
Lets say it was a 200hp car, now it is 250, that's 25% more power, but also 25% more force acting on EVERY component in the engine and powertrain, you likely just halved the life of many components.
(Assume a life exponent of 3, (1/1.25)^3=1/1.95, about 50%)
btw 3 is a typical life exponent for certain cyclic fatigue failure modes, yes this is a simplified example. and yes I'm assuming peak power is at the same engine RPM.
Also for many 'infinite life' components when you increase forces 25% you are likely back into the limited life zone.
This guy is clueless. Yeah, maybe if you're talking about a carburated system in which you've changed the compression ratio, but the nice thing about a computer controlled fuel injection system is that by varying the parameters of the system, you can gain quite a bit more power without making hardware changes. Unlike the ignorant parent poster, a dyno doesn't lie.
18 horsepower = 13.5Kw
70 foot pounds = 95 Newton metres
I may be crazy, but I'm not st00pid!
when you can use chips its like hacking but its more user friendly for example for 249 dollars i can get 15 more horsepower and 13 lb ft of torque by just plugging in a chip dont have to worry about blowing my ingnition coils and shortin my ecu or somehting like that and if i do, i can tell the people with the chip that they caused it
Yes, and every windows user who spends enough time clicking on icons can be a Network Admin.
You can fool around and probaly fake it pretty good, but there is a wee bit more to making a car go then fiddling around with bits of steel.
You ever see the "Safety Car"? It runs Windows 98...2 20.shtml?tid=126
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/07/17/2322
Scary!
There are a number of funny things about this article, which breathlessly "exposes" car chipping which has been going on for more than 10 years. *yawn* But perhaps the funniest thing of all, is the reaction of the Slashdotters here, who by and large have reacted with horror that anyone dared modify a computer controlling a car. Oh my!
Could it truly be, that geeks draw the line at anything with real grease on it? Or does the courage to hack extend only as far as tearing up an Xbox in order to brag about running linux on it? Or pestering some working sysadmin trying to earn a living by running a few servers for his boss? woo. Boys play games, Men build machines.
Here's the thing - by and large, all that ECU really does is exactly the same thing a carburator and distributor cap used to do. No more, and no less. Oh sure, maybe it turns on a fan to bring the water temp down a bit, or implements a rev limiter. But for someone who understands the way a car runs (read, any 8th grade dropout working at your local car dealer), with a bit of programming experience, there's nothing magical, intimidating, or even particularly challenging about rolling your own.
Modding chips, is not rolling your own. That's just poking a few new hex values in a two-dimensional array stored in an eprom. array(i,j) of Injectorsquirtduration, AmountofAir. Simple as that. Any fool can do it, and many do. It's essentially the exact same thing as rejetting a carb, or turning the airscrew. No biggie.
Rolling your own means starting with a computer of some sort, putting an OS on it, and writing code that reads a lot of sensor data, and outputs some voltages, all largely to simulate a distributor cap and carb. The hardest part, is figuring out the voltages and what they signify from the various sensors (manifold absolute pressure, throttle position, O2, water temp, air temp, cam (or crank) position (the clock), etc.)
I'm running an MS-AVR microcontroller, using code I modified and compiled myself - on linux, using GCC. My car runs like a top. I had hella fun doing it. Beats modding some lame game box big time. And oh yeah - My car runs on Open source :)
Here's one example of a DIY ecu.
I think I saw that on SNL once... Anyone?
A correctly designed fuel injected car can run for 200,000k's without needing anything more than filters and oil. And after 200,000k's will still start/run/accelerate just fine.
Your van, on the other hand, will need a fair bit of maintenance and will drink a truckload more fuel than an equivalent fuel injected van would.
And as for your nissan, first,clean the injectors.
Second, get a good diagnostic manual for it - computer controlled injection isn't that hard to grasp, and most computers these days (sadly probably not your nissan) can tell you where a problem lies.
Third - as much as you love your old iron, the new generation is here. EFI's come a long way since the 70's analog computer and it's a lot more reliable than anything mechanical on your engine.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
yeah! let's pick on microsoft! that's always timely... and funny!
i'm sorry, i'm just sleep deprived... but bitter. yes. very bitter.
A dyno doesn't lie (much) and yes you can get more HP out of a motor by changing the fuel and ignition maps, but as soon as you change mechanical components to inrease the volumetric efficiency of the engine, your $400 chip is fueling wrong.
I didn't say a chip doesn't work - I said it's a waste of money if you want to operate a non-standard motor, and you expect to make changes outside those that the chip programmer designed for.
Put a free flowing exhaust on, or add a K&N and your VE goes up. Add a bigger intercooler and increase the inlet air density. Change the cam and your fueling needs change, as well as possibly your idle needs if you want a smooth idle on a lumpy cam. Maybe you need to change your VVT setup as well to make the best use of a new cam profile.
Unlike parent AC who has no clue about how this shit really works, I've actually written the code that runs on these things, and written software to tune them. It's not magic and computers can't pull HP out of their arses. Yes there are gains to be had with "chipping" your car (advance ignition, increase boost, richen mixture, adjust shift points, etc), but the chip has to match the engine to get the best results and a programmable system is the best way to get that.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
reading this story somehow made me think of the recent aol adds for their accelerator. dumb and dumber-er....it's not really news.
its called increasing boost.
just a chip in my 2.7 twin turbo will add 50hp easy.
For example, a Seat Ibiza TDI 100hp, can be easily upgraded to 170hp... no big deal.. for 100 or 200 euros.
My fiat punto jtdi, a diesel have now 100hp. It cames with 85hp and it spend about 6 liters per 100km.
By tweaking fuel/air mixtures and ignition timing, the two main adjustable performance variables without removing or replacing parts, you are also drastically changing combustion byproducts. The ability of vehicles to meet emissions standards is largely dependent on the fine tuning the engine computer provides. The computer monitors exhaust gas composition, intake air volume, engine temp, air temp, throttle position, RPM, barometric pressure, etc. and mixes the optimum fuel/air ratio to minimize emissions for a given performance curve. You aren't just voiding the warranty by tweaking, you are violating federal air quality laws. Some don't care about the air they breath, but they might care about dying. (See next point)
A finer point is the consideration of incomplete combustion. There is an inverse relationship between performance and fuel efficiency. Where does all that extra fuel go to eak out that last bit of horsepower? It exits the combustion chamber in the form of partially combusted hydrocarbons (HC's) and CO. It takes too long to burn fuel completely to CO2 and H20 in a high performance envelope, so it is wasted and accounted as the cost of performance. Normally the HC's and CO exit the exhaust into the air in a off-street high performance vehicle. In a street production vehicle there is a catalytic converter between the exhaust manifold and the air. It is designed to clean up any residual uncombusted byproducts, normally a small % and runs around 1000-1500 degrees in temp, but it has heat shielding/insulation to protect the vehicle. If you changed the exhaust, through tweaking for performance, to release a higher percentage of HC's and CO, the catalytic converter will convert it to CO2 and H20. The problem is that there is much more combustion to complete and the cat's temp will rise drastically. Then your car catches on fire.
You might think this is a rare event, but it happens occasionally when engines are poorly tuned or leaking oil fumes in the exhaust and aren't checked out for emissions. Part of an emissions test involves analyzing exhaust gases prior to entering the cat. Converters are so efficient at finishing combustion that they can mask oil burning and overly rich mixtures.
I have seen several cars burn up this way. The funniest/most ironic happened to a police car. The police department was pulling strings with the emissions department and getting rubber stamped emissions stickers for their cruiser fleet without actually running the tests. One hot summer day a cruiser melted by the side of the road and started a moderate grass fire. It was determined through mechanic logs that the car had been using much more oil recently, but nothing was done to figure out why - just kept adding oil. All that oil was burning in the cat and eventually the heat shielding burned through and the car ignited.
Just like overclocking, you gotta do something about the excess heat. The tweakers might want to remove the cat (a violation of federal law) or keep a fire extinguisher in the car and the fire department on speed dial.
I used to turn wrenches for a living before going to med school.
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
boosting the pressure increases both torque and HP.
typically, the torque band is not as flat, but that is not killing your torque band. Nowhere is the torque LOWER for a given rpm.
you really have no idea what your are talking about.
>why would factories bother with a whole new ECU, exhaust, porting, cams, et cetera, if they could get functionally identical results by just blowing a new EPROM?
the question is ease of install. simply blowing a new eeprom isn't that simple - most advanced ECUs do NOT let you simply blow a new eeprom through the OBD port. you have to resolder a new one on, in which case, while you are in there, you may as well add a way to upgrade the eeprom you just added.
All this is probably too much for the average customer, so most reputable tuners for these kinds of chips either a) supply their own stock ecus for modding or b) require you to send in your own ecu for modding.
Gibberish eh?
"retard=> later ignition"... you're changing the point at which the cam opens the valves in relation to the piston movement, and via the computer no less.
and almost all chips require the use of a higher octane rating and take advantage of the extra power it gives you. (via the retard on the cam)
you sound book smart but experience short.
and many tuners offer race gas programs tuned for specific gas.
run 87 in one of these, and watch the ECU kill the timing - you won't necessarily even detonate, just lose a ton of power and mileage.
Complete car computer systems have been sold for years. You can easily hook up to your laptop and control the timings, fule flow, boost (if you have a super/turbo charger), suspension (if you have fancy ones), and get very nice and detailed readings for fuel efficiency, torque (or HP) vs RPM's, etc. etc....
:)
My brother almost got one for his little escort a while back. They're not that expensive (less than 1grand), and very useful. Really good for diagnosing car problems too (if you get that with it).
I guess car's are new to a lot of computer geeks though
>I'd start to worry about charge temperature at 18psi boost (I'm not familiar enough with the 1.8T setup to know if they typically have quality intercoolers, or any intercooler at all).
There are TONS of aftermarket intercoolers available for most of these FI cars. The stock one works fine for most simple chip applications.
>You'll also have to bump up to premium gas if the car didn't require it already to prevent detonation caused by the higher temperatures.
Yes, the audi 1.8t and 2.7tt require 91 oct.
Again, tuners have addressed detonation and timing issues. Trust me, this is NOT a new art.
In most modern normally aspirated vehicles ECU modifications do very little (we are talking 10% max) to performance unless the volumetric efficiency of the car is altered first by improving breathing (air filter, intake manifold, throttle body, inlet cam etc), improved exhaust (extractors, free flowing exhaust) or increasing the engine's ability to rev (blueprinting, valve train etc etc). Once these things have been done it is often vital that ECU mods are done to ensure that air/fuel mixtures remain with safe range (not too lean for petrol engines and not to rich for diesels).
On the flip side we have the behaviour of the stock ECU on many of the more sophisticated modern vehicles: particularly those that have low emissions status. Often traditional mods will not improve performance at all or only for a little while. For example, before the Subaru Impreza WRX was released in the US, a typical first modification was turbo or cat back exhaust. This had the effect of improving flow and also increased boost because the boost control was open loop (no feedback). The new GDB Impreza WRX is no where near as easy to modify. The ECU has closed loop control and will also retard timing to bring power down to stock levels. Another vehicle that does something similar are the LS1 V8 equipped Holden Commodores that we have here in Australia (the four door equivalent of the new Pontiac GTO). These use some form of torque modelling such that any modification will give a short performance boost but within days the ECU will bring torque back to stock levels.
In short, ECU modification is generally something that is done at the same time as other, more physical modifications.
You could remove the logging ( Logs - speed, braking, ect.) function also.
+55hp +80ft/lbs for the 01 AWW engine with a GIAC chips for the 1.8T VW's. It's real for VW's. For a few years, the chip was gated back on the 4 cylinder so it wouldn't cut into v6 sales. Do a search, places like Awe Tuning have proved it on dinos...
Garage operators across the country say they are seeing more cars with burned-out engines, partly because reprogrammed chips sometimes supply too much fuel and allow turbo pressure to exceed recommended limits.
I suppose this could make sense with a turbo engine (more gas AND more air), but more gas by itself will just cause horrible emissions and, if anything, a low operating temp. A rich mixture does not fully burn, and indeed ends up cooling the engine some. A lean mixture will burn up an engine. A rich mixture will just smell bad and piss off the EPA.
(Perhaps inevitably, the hacker culture has also produced automotive pirates who buy legitimate chips from makers then copy the programming onto blank chips, selling the results at sharp discounts.)
Need I say anything? "Hacker culture" != "Pirate". Grr.
Partly to combat hackers, many carmakers are using encrypted chips in new models or, like Toyota, have done away with removable memory chips altogether. That has the e-mechanics shifting strategies, either by downloading new software directly into the computer's hard drive...
Hard Drive? In my car? From the factory? Think not.
Wrong Don, the Spinal Tap quote is funny because '10' and '11' are not a measure of anything - they are just the highest number on the dial. Horsepower and torque are measurements, so while it may be silly to kill gas milleage for an extra 18 horsepower there is an actual change in the power output of the engine.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
While true overall, you must first take into account the person maintaining the mechanicals. Sure, it's possible to get well over 200k miles out of an EFI engine, and yes, they are (overall) more efficient than their carburated bretherin... But, cars today are designed to be throw-away vehicles. They aren't BUILT to last.
And yes, my van drinks gasoline, it's a V8 350 CID. On the same token, I also had a 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 with a 5.7L V8, and it was computer controlled... but I don't notice very much difference in fuel mileage between my 5.6L and the 5.7L the truck had... I believe the van weighs more than the truck did as well, totalling about 4800Lbs. In this, my point is a properly tuned carburated engine will come very close to the fuel consumption charactistics of an identical, or nearly identical, fuel injected engine.
My point was, dollars per horsepower, mechanical upgrades will always be superior to any electronic upgrade when it comes to performance per dollar spent. Mechanics can only be pushed so hard before they just give up. To get better performance, you must upgrade the mechanical components.
As far as my Z... The only thing I haven't replaced yet is the ECCU and engine wiring harness, the diagnostics have all pointed to the ECCU as being the problem, or a wireing fault between the engine compartment and the ECCU. I simply haven't taken the time to try a new ECCU yet because I plan to put a Chevy 305 or 350 conversion into it. Simply because I want to try something different. It's a project car, after all. Partial parts list, replaced: New fuel injectors, ignition system, sensors, vacuum lines, hoses, fuel delivery system, etc... all new
And yes, electronics have come a long way since they first started... But I still have to say that I do not now, nor ever will, trust electronics over mechanics. With mechanics, if something goes wrong, it's typically immediately identifiable... With electronics, there's always something wrong right off the line. It's just a fact. And may the gods help us once Honda starts putting MS Windows into their cars.
Oh, and I feel the need to mention that my father has had several cars that were fuel injected, all of General Motors origin, that lasted well past 350k miles. When the cars finally came to the end of their lives, it wasn't because the engine failed... It was usually because the cars were totalled by someone plowing into them on an icy road in a snowstorm (3 of his cars have met this fate over the years).
-Phyre
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thom
My dad is an honest guy. He's an excellent mechanic, so he opened a repair shop to get out of the suit and tie for once.
Business was good, and he did honest work for an honest price, but he just could not make ends meet.
The sad reality is that auto repair is very expensive work, and the places must cheat you just to make ends meet, less they charge higher rates, and steer away customers, and go out of business.
It's a nasty world.
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Tubochargers do not add significant torque to engines, they add significant horsepower. But thanks for playing.
"retard=> later ignition"... you're changing the point at which the cam opens the valves in relation to the piston movement, and via the computer no less.
:)
:)
Well, if you'd like me to correct you again?
You clearly seem to not be appreciating the fact that the cam is a hard, fixed, physical lump of _metal_. It can _not_ be changed in the vast, vast majority of cars. (there are a few high-end engines with mildly adjustable cam timing). The cam controls when the _valves_ are lifted, and for how long. Neither cams, nor valves , nor the timing thereof have anything to do with ignition, least not immediately, and the term "retard" in engine tuning almost always refers to ignition timing.
Ignition, and the advance or retardation of it is controlled by when the spark plug fires, which is _is_ controlled by the ECU.
You're mixing up valve timing, which is nearly always fixed and can not (generally) be changed without major work, often involving replacement of aforementioned physical bits of metal (ie camshaft), with ignition as done by the spark plugs, which _is_ variable and controllable by the ECU.
almost all chips require the use of a higher octane rating and take advantage of the extra power it gives you. (via the retard on the cam)
"via the retard on the cam"? That means _nothing_. And yes, you might to need use higher octane fuel, and _NO_ the extra power had _nothing_ to do with the fuel. The higher octane fuel is required to prevent the engine blowing itself up. Higher octane fuel is merely more resistant to detonation, that is the definition of the octane rating. It does not release extra energy.
you sound book smart but experience short.
Yeah, possibly, I stick to the easy stuff, maintenance and basic tuning. Major stuff I go to my tuner. However, I have a funny feeling I have more experience than you
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Everyone here seems to believe that the only reason for greater performance in a car is to go fast. Forget about horsepower for a moment, and consider the torque. This allows you to accelerate more quickly. Here in New Jersey, that's a safety feature, believe it or not. With our traffic congestion, being able to blend into traffic from an on ramp is critical.
Like anything, as long as you fully understand what you are doing, it's perfectly safe. In fact, most people with professional technical qualifications are probably brighter and more careful than many auto mechanics, and I know from experience, that at least I know that I will do the job *right*. The important thing is that people are willing to learn how to do things right. I will still leave jobs to the professionals when:
- It would take too much time to learn and do
- It needs expensive, specialised tools
- It needs more skills/tools than I have just now
- It's a horrible job
As for the original article, that's old news. Enhanced chips and programmable chips have been available for years. The good ones do more than extend the fuel map past the programmed maximum, it's really important that they take into account stuff like the EFI's fuel delivery capacity, many, many chipped cars have been ruined because a badly programmed chip leaves the top end too lean. Buy any magazine about high performance 4 cylinder cars.
Xix.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
but you knew that.
funny how they keep adding turbos to big diesel engines to get torque. I guess they must be going about it all wrong and shouldn't bother.
"retard=> later ignition"... you're changing the point at which the cam opens the valves in relation to the piston movement, and via the computer no less.
:). These chips tend to have most effect by changing the fuel and ignition maps. (given that variable valve timing is not that wide spread, yet)
Ok, I think you're talking specifically about variable-valve timing engines, eg Honda VTEC probably being one of the best known. I've no idea what kind of adjustibility these systems have via ECU (VTEC seems not be terribly adjustible) - bike engines tend not to have variable-valve timing, too much dead weight
(eg the example in the news article referred to a VW TDI - which doesnt have variable valve timing).
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Dupe
4 21 3
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/05/013
I just feed speed to the nearest underage goth girl. the insurance is cheaper.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
i've rebuilt engines (motorcycle, car, etc) v-8s, flat fours, put cams in them, high perf carbs, ignitions.
yet almost everyone here says "no don't do it, a loose bolt could kill the children!!"
piss off all you wanks! i love riding my dynojetted, aftermarket exhaust, regeared suzuki sv650.
Pussies!
Their V-tune product sounds like what you want.
when do we hack the planet?
If I'm reading this right, and I think I am... it's now possible to overclock... A CAR?!?!?!?!?!
First there were those neons and decals that cover cars, and they also cover computers.... now we can also overclock them. Of course it should be noted that the people that have the cathodes and decals won't really overclock, because the cathodes do the job of the overclocking.
Learn something new.
secret level "Operating Thetan III" was posted to Slashdot.
It was subsequently removed by the editors, at the request of Scientology's lawyers.
They are therefore responsible for the content of every comment that is posted.
I'm surprised you didn't already know that. The editors probably aren't too proud of it either.
Get a motorcycle. A stock bike will blow away most anything on the road. And if the traffic backs up, split lanes!
All this for $10K or less.
Inhanbla Gmunka
You pulled that "100 hp" out of the air: nowhere in the article is such a claim made.
However, significant gains can be made in some areas without running afoul of your first failure mode. If you are willing to commit to always using high-octane fuel, for example, then you can safely derive significant benefit by changing the ignition advance settings in the ROM maps.
Other useful features can be added to your ECU as well. Consider the products from TechnoMotive. You can add security so that the engine will only start if you tap a secret code on the gas pedal. You can make instrumentation display many different data -- helping you prevent the types of failures you mention. You can even have bugs from the manufacturer fixed:
ObDisclaimer: not associated with TMO in any way, but have heard great things from their customers.
you are correct (my mistake) on the cam... but its still the (and the stroke of the pistons) relative position to the spark (as you say) that determines the amount that the fuel/air mixture is compressed which is directly relevant to the amount of power which is produced... which leads me to my next point, I hope i did not imply that higher octane fuel has more energy... simply put, that energy can be harnessed more effectively by allowing greater compression before combustion. Hence in a tuned engine (chipped) greater power can be made from the same amount of fuel, though the potential energy of it had never changed. you might have gone from burning it with a 78% efficiency instead of a 74% efficiency for example, but I really have no idea what the real numbers would be.
Modern disk brake systems are extremely simplistic and amenable to shade-tree mechanic work. Not counting the time to jack up my car, it takes less than 20 minutes to change brake pads all around. My dealer would charge me 2 hours @ $90/hr. Changing the rotors is not that much more difficult given the proper tools. If I really take my time, I could do an entire brake job (rotors, pads, fluid, and start the process of bedding in the pads) on my car in under two hours. In fact, the most important thing about working on your own brakes is making sure you remember to torque your lug nuts/bolts to the proper spec after you've put on the wheels and lowered the car. Failing to do so will find you wheeless down the street. You won't even have time to find out whether or not your brake job went well.
Drum brakes are a completely different matter, and you should leave those to the pros. Chances are, though, that your most important brakes (the fronts) are disk even if you have drums in the rear. You can still change the pads and rotors on the front yourself, saving money and learning at the same time.
Even if you're not going to do more than just inspect your brakes, you should get gauges to measure the remaining pad material and rotor thickness, and know the tolerances. Many dealers consider brake jobs to be cash cows, because few people really know what's going on. I've heard of more than a few that recommend rotor changes with each pad change, which is complete BS. Also, if you're topping off your fluid, make sure you use the right DOT spec fluid (don't mix DOT 3 and 4, for instance, since they're drastically different formulae) and don't fill past the line. The reservoir needs that empty space for you to be able to brake. If you top right up to the cap you're either going to have a big corrosive mess of spilled fluid or you're not going to be able to brake at all.
Is the fact that it's a sports car with an automatic transmission. Really, manual is more efficient, and more fun to drive!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Ever since ODB-II, there have been onboard computers to change various systems in cars. The Volkswagen-Audi Group (VAG) has their VAG-COM tool for Volkswagen, Audi, Seat and Skoda to read a plethora of information and can change lots of settings. No "hacking" is needed, it is somewhat pricey ($229) but it won't void your warranty and you're not trying to re-invent the wheel. I know of individuals that own this tool that would be interested in loaning their VAG-COM out (by shipping or other means) to people.
In my car (an Audi), you can use the climate control display and have it output lots of speeds, voltages, temperatures and other paramters of many different parts of the car. It has a Diagnostic Trouble Code readout where it tells you what part of the car may be wrong. It also has 2 "graphic" modes where it uses each segment of the climate control display to display the status of different factors affecting the A/C Compressor and Alternator. So if the battery keeps dying, you can go to the diagnostic channel that displays the switches relevant to the Alternator and see if some switch is on when it shouldn't, or vice versa. This onboard tool can give some insight, but with the VAG-COM tool, you can get more specific answers.
"Have I missed something?"
Yes. Some of us like to have fun.
You know...fun, like when you go skiing at 50 MPH down a ski slope.
Or the fun from when you practice judo and throw each other through the air.
Or the fun from when you ride a roller-coaster.
Or the fun you get from sky-diving.
Or bungee jumping
Or just living.
Get over it.
Easy.
It is when, at the hands of a car you love from the sound of the exhaust to the way the fenders flare, with the windows down and the wind through your hair, the sun on your arms...you approach a corner, heel-toe downshift matching revs perfectly so the car's balance is not disturbed- and smoothly turn in and add just the right throttle...all done out of instinct born from experience, rather than calculated thought. The turbo whistles, the engine roars, the tires sing... as ten thousand pieces of metal, rubber and plastic struggle, half trying to push you right off the curve with acceleration, and half keeping you on it.
For a few seconds, everything- you, your 3600lb hunk of flying metal, the road- all work together in perfect harmony, and you're the conductor. You sail through the corner like the very hand of god guided you, and the only thing you can think about is the road that lies in front of you while the pit of your stomach says to your brain, "bravo!"
Please help metamoderate.
For those of you with a BMW, Bavarian Autosport sells pre-modded chips that are tuned to specific models of BMWs.
"If I spend $7,000 on performance parts the car will be able to drag against dodge vipers that cost around $60,000"
Sure it will.
Right. You can get 400 HP out of 1.8l.
Right.
Sure. Do you still believe in the easter bunny too? And Santa Claus.
You ricers crack me up. When I look in my rear view mirror at you getting smaller. If you want a performance car, buy a performance car. its cheaper and it goes faster.
If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.
Brakes are the one part of the car that always amuses me. I'm the same way, I change my own brakes, they're easy. Think of it this way: Engineers know that brakes are a part that wear down. They are designed to wear, be replaced, and done easily. (It's really the reason behind the industry moving to disk brakes in the first place, incredibly easy to maintain).
However, with the idea that brakes are the "safety" part of the car, people feel they should only trust the highest trained mechanic to the job. Please, it's only slightly harder to do than changing your oil.
Rich
After looking at your post, I only wish you would STFU.
I mean, you're being so silly and thoughtless that its not worth picking your post apart point by point.
Oh hell.
If *what* catches on? Hot-rodding cars? Shit, its like saying "if everybody overclocks their PC, it could cause problems". Well, maybe, but by definition, the vast majority will never open the hood on their cars.
Its a non-issue. A non-problem.
Don't worry about it. Don't be so...so.... so YOU all the time.
The reason for electronic engine control is basicaly to reach The Stoichiometric Fuel/Air Mixture at all running conditions. ECU maps are basically designed to the lowest level in consumer products. Remaping the ECU is a time consuming procedure. One can't just make power in all conditions by remapping. 14.7 to one mixture of oxidizer to fuel will produce the most efficient and powerfull use of fuel. Consumer ECU's trade off getting the closest to this mixture for all conditions, cold start, lugging the motor, running it hard, lower octane fuels, the list goes on and on.
Haltech has a great system for designers. Install the system, acquire the data from all sensors (o2, map, temp, tdc, rmp, throttle pos, at a min) in real world driving and spend countless hours perfecting proper setup. Great for an engineer and a mess for joe sixpack.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Really. Just shut up. Never talk again. Or better yet, find a tall cliff near your home and throw yourself over it.
I really hope we got you before you had children. We need less people like you.
Most of the cars I have owned have had the ecu reprogrammed from the vw 1.8T Jetta to the C5 Corvette.
You get the best results on cars that have heavy mods and or turbo cars.
the newer vehicles have some sort of black box that records the changes to the software--for "warranty" purposes, you--wink wink nudge nudge say no more--are bringing your car in for reprogramming every time a tsb comes out right? We need to--wink wink nudge nudge--know exactly what conditions you are driving your car in, and know what software changes were done so we install the right patch. Yeah, right....
i am so very tired....
I want that Jetta now. Screw the Subaru.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
The first few times really weren't that bad, just get a good chiltons/haynes. It is a really neat mechanism by the way, just don't add 15-20 degree weather and tons of mud to the mix.
i am so very tired....
I haven't needed to do drums yet, but my truck's brakes are drums and I'll do them myself eventually. However, compared to disks, drums are insanely complex. Newbies (and I'm still very much a car monkey newbie) will feel much more comfortable with trying to change pads on disk brakes rather than drums, just because there are fewer parts and depending on the caliper likely nothing to take apart but a cotter pin, retaining pin, and spring plate.
I've got the Chiltons for my truck, so I'll be ready when the time comes. Chilton doesn't make a manual for my car, and the official shop manuals are crazy ($600!), so I'm sticking to the easy stuff for now (oil, brakes).
Oh, and speaking of brakes, if your car has wear sensors but your replacement pads don't have slots for them, just tie them back against the suspension. Check the thickness of your pads every now and then and otherwise forget about it. Most wear sensors will go off when you still have 35%+ material left. Just another way stealerships milk your wallet.
who will low ball you so hard, that 5 chipped cars don't make up for the profit difference that they make on the lowball---but look, I gave you 10 grand for your car(wink), and I had to add 9 grand to the value of the new vehicle so that the(wink) credit company will accept the deal...
i am so very tired....
Your car now takes advantage of the fine "$0.10/gallon more to fill up" feature.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I don't know about you, but my local gas station doesn't carry anything over 93 octane. And even that's pretty damn expensive (at least $0.25/gal more than 89 octane).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Is that why both Intel and AMD deliberately make their chips over-clockable?
parent poster is a redneck.. 5 bucks on this!hehehe
Not the ECU. Here's the situation: You wreck your later then 02 vehicle. The insurance company pulls the body computer and acquires the last 20 seconds of data before the crash sensors signal airbag deployment. Data like throttle possition, brake possition, rpm, speed are recorded and available for use. All this data for authorities to grep without your permission.
That's the real fix necessary!
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
BMW and a company called Dinan have been doing this for years, with an added twist. As long as Dinan modifies the computer, the change is covered by your BMW warranty. I had this done to a Z3 2.5i, and it was quite an improvement. The software is tuned to match their performance products. For example: With a Dinan exhaust, cold air intake, and throttle body, they offer a Stage III software download. The process is quite simple. They use a small (old school) HP PDA (the ones that looked like tiny brown laptops) and some kind of a serial connection to program the computer. It's pretty slick. Also they (Dinan) offer automatic transmission software upgrades.
...you could have seen the same power increase just by getting a MBC and AFC, instead of paying $400 for a stupid chip.
For someone who knows so much about BMW's F1 racing habits, you should know better than this...
.02% life? That sounds pretty generous. Lets assume the average BMW engine block can run 30 years (with proper maintenance). At 2 hours per day for those 30 years (thats probably really low) that is 43800 hours of use. .02% of that 8.76 hours. I doubt most F1 engines will run that long without a major overhaul or replacement.
There were no similarities between the engine parts aside from the block. The pistons, connectors, cylinder heads etc. are all substantially beefed up and radically different in the F1 engine, obviously.
Similarly, in NHRA racing, they use big block engines that probably ran 200 hp in their stock version, but are quite capable of running multi-thousand in NHRA.
And
-
I put some speed holes in the hood. They make the car go faster.
Does it mean that, in order to reach the maximal level of geekness, I will have to get an extra tank, full of liquid nitrogen for my overclocked car ?
Cool. So my next car will have these 2 tanks, be overclocked, play mp3's / have a GPS system, and look cool. Now all I need is a Mr. Fusion unit. But it's still 2004 and I hadn't invented it yet.
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
you need an upgraded exaust as well as the new chip but the 90's 300zx twin turbo can be boosted from 290ish to about 400hp. That's at red line with high octane (92) gas which of course will burn out your engine quick no matter how it's tuned but the numbers are impressive anyway...
about 10 or more years tooooooo late, people! not even worth posting, must be the weekend.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Sorry, I have to call Bullshit.... RE:
Cars are tuned for fuel efficiency.
My truck doesn't get ANYWHERE near the stciker based mileage. My actual highway/city driving over 2000 miles is less than the sticker based city ONLY mileage by 2 miles per gallon. And I drive Normal. No tickets, no accidents, drive at most 10 over the limit and I don't "run it hard". My truck is a V6 with a manual transmission BTW.
My buddy's Caddilac Escalade with a V8 gets better mileage.
Sorry but the whole mileage thing is Bullshit Period.
Oh and by the way. FUCK YOU DODGE (aka Daimler Chrysler)!
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
The motorcycle I bought many many years ago (90' FZR1000) runs a 10.5 sec quater mile @ 135 mph. STOCK. Off the show room floor.
I bought it for $4-5000 (can't remember) used. And it gets on average 35-50 MPG (depending on how I drive it).
Once again FUCK YOU DODGE (aka Daimler Chrysler)
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
...... Do it Yourself.
If I had a dollar for every time I found some unbelieveably stupid thing someone had done with a computer, I'd be retired.
By that same token, I cannot count the number of times I've had some clown fuck up, lie, try to cheat, over charge, etc with a vehicle.
Me, I'm just as comfortable with a wrench in my hand as a keyboard. I do it myslef.
That's The Only Way I know It's Done Right.
Think about it don't you fellow propeller heads feel the same way about jobs involving a keyboard?
I thought so.
Oh and once again FUCK YOU DODGE (AKA Daimler Chrysler).
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
A sheet metal spoiler taller than the car, right? I've heard those add at least 50hp...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I just insert a paper clib into the ignition AND open the door at the same time!
Oh, is that only for DVD players?
Dude:
/.'s shouldn't work on their own cars.
Unless you have 4 wheel steering (which in '88 I don't think you do) the Pitman arm is part of the Front Steering system.
Maybe that's why most
No offense intended.
Who will guard the guards?
... is running similar story here
The next remark is false. The previous remark is true.
I'm totally amazed how clueless your average /.er is RE: automoive issues.
My motorcycle is 10.5:1 (compression ratio) Stock. Off the showroom floor. Of course I bought it used and let someone else take the 50% loss driving it off the showroom floor (more than 10 years ago).
And it'll beat ANYTHING on 4 wheels that ANYONE can drive (legally) on the street. Hands Down. And VERY easily.
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
That I never have to run any software (or firware) that you've written, since obviously you don't believe in your own skills and capabilities.
Therefore neither should anybody else. I hope your boss doesn't read this (for your sake).
Because that windows code can kill your computer. See Magistr.
And in answer to your question: How about electricity? It's everywhere, used by everyone and could easily kill you if someone fucked up.
Who will guard the guards?
I could be mistaken, but I thought that Torque was the "response/sensation" like the car wanting to do a wheelie whereas Horsepower was the actual rubber meets the road (as in go fast).
In an automobile that is.
However the real equation is HP/weight.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
Quoted from the article:
The motor is Over-engineered.
So it's safe to "boost" it.
FYI a forged crank is common among "race cars". For Instance the Hemi engines from Dodge/Chrysler in the late 60's.
That said, converting a diesel engine to gasoline would indeed be an extreme modification. Unless there is something I'm missing like it's the same block and just different head and intake between the gas and diesel engines????
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
Not completely true. The Hondata reflash for the RSX adds 15-20 horses to a stock car. Many people recommended the reflash as the first performace mod for the RSX do to the outstanding bang for the buck. This is of course no match to the gains from the Jackson Racing Superchanger reflash that adds 40 horses to the 60 horsepower blower kit.
I would like to mention Hondata has recently released an USB reprogramable ECU for the RSX K20 engine. Bet your balls I'm getting it.
The journey is better then the end.
Have you read the manufacturer warranty on brakes. Before you put your foot further into your mouth, I'd suggest you do. Usually brakes are only covered 6 months or 5,000 miles.
My Dodge Dakoda has very much under engineered brakes. They had warped rotors within 20K. I turned the rotor and replaced the pads at the dealer. And I don't/can't ride the brakes, I have a manual transmission. Then they warped again about 45K. At which point I replaced the factory pads with the BEST aftermarket pads I could buy and again turned the rotors.
Doubt my claims, just google for info RE: dakoda and brakes. The next time I have to do it, I'll be buying vented aftermarket rotors. I hope one of the previous posters who was afraid to be near a car he had worked on designed anything associated with those parts.
Oh and it's time to say this again.
FUCK YOU DODGE aka Daimler Chrysler.
Who will guard the guards?
Can you even bolt a V8 to a 4 CYL tranny.
In the old days they were bolt patern incompatible.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
Chilton/Haynes seem to be the typical manuals found at autoparts stores and libraries, so there is always that around if you need it. What some dealers seem to use and what I've recently purchased was a Helm manual. I haven't had a chance to use it yet on my Integra(an occasionally-satisfying high-revver) but from looking through it, it appears that the people that wrote it actually performed the procedures before(and maybe even after! Huh!) they wrote it. There is pictures of difficult to reach/see/understand things and tips on how to do things easier. I was amazed.
One thing that Ive realized is important in automobile repair is having the right tools for the job and in this case I think you could generally consider a Helm manual to be a good tool to have. You may not use it or need it for what you're doing, but it's good to have nearby juuust in case. Mine was only $64 and will most likely be well worth it.
Not affiliated with Helm, Acura or anyone at all now that I think about it.
Keep in mind that the developer of this software is a harried engineer who is being pushed by management to get something out the door.
The largest distinction with writing software for a manufacturer as opposed to consumer software is that the bugs tend to be completely ignored unless something very serious happens. I've been in the industry and having to reverse engineer firmware code for products made by the company I was working for (where you would think that the souce code and engineering notes was available to its own employees). It is just like any other software development, where skill levels vary, and some developers are very poor. Degrees don't seem to have much of an impact either from my experience, although a love of coding and determination to get the job done can.
I knew of a local manufacturer in the town I live in (that I won't name but I'm sure you have heard of their products) who built an exercise treadmill that had an EPROM that under certain conditions would suddenly start running the treadmill at full-speed. In a situation very similar to Ralph Nadar's "Unsafe at Any Speed", this manufacturer decided that it was cheaper and easier to pay off the lawsuits from people injuried (and even killed) by this flaw rather than hire an electrical engineer to fix the problem. The firmware was written through an outsourced contract, but the original contractor refused to deal with that company (for various political and financial reasons).
That this person you are refering to about the PROM in the car found such innocent problems in the source code as to just idle issues is something that most engineering managers would probabally find as acceptable bugs they could live with and to move on with other projects.
It really doesn't surprise me at all.
I just "upgraded" the firmware in my car.
I was 'disappointed' to find out that the US version of my 330ci convertible was restricted to 128mph, electronically, and had it's horse power tamed for the US market.
My Europ counterpart's 330ci was limited to 155mph and had 25 HP more.
Shocking.
Of course, $300 later and now the machine is equivalent to it's euro brother.
Why do the restrict US versions so badly ?
You might have seen people selling on eBay a miracle chip which can unleash around 20BHP from your engine, and yet this wonder chip only costs like $5.
Its basically a resistor you are buying, and you are expected to solder it into your ECU, tricking the car into thinking its running in cold start mode the whole time.. so more fuel is injected into the engine hence making it a little more powerful.
But obviously you don't want to be doing it.. if you are going to get your car chipped do it at a garage who run your car on a rolling road and work out a custom map for you. $500 or so for a rechip would be nothing compared to the damage that one of those $5 resistors would do over time.
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
So you're agument is that HP=Torque*RPM
Basically C=A*B but B is really the determining factor.
I'll be more than happy to show you that the true equation is hp/lb. Or Bragging rights=C/D
No "street legal" or even anything short of a drag strip car can beat my motorcycle which doesn't make anywhere near the torque that even a 4 cyl car does.
The gaulet has been cast. Will you pick it up?
How much of a head start will you require?
Mine runs a 10.5 quater mile @ 135 mph. What's your high torque auto run?
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
Try it. It works.
Do you think anything that requires specialization is any different?
Let me guess, the first time you wrote a program it worked flawlessly and you didn't have to debug it.
I thought so.
There is NO MAGIC.
For me there are very few BLACK BOXES (and not in the phrack sense).
Rodger
Who will guard the guards?
Done properly it should only result in a shorter engine life in so far as the power transfer components. Most usually big end bearings suffer first and need new ones sooner than the 10-15 years most oem's last. Improper tuning results in 'blow ups' and other nasties like head gasket and piston failures....
I do this for a living....
A couple things...back in the day, these HP ratings were gross, not net. So take those HP ratings and knock off about 33% in many cases.
And the best part of these older cars was not HP, it was the torque. HP is fine for top speed, but top speed is irrelevant. Torque is good from 1 MPH on up.
Ricers talk HP
Drivers talk torque curve
FYI a "barely streetable car" will run maybe under a 14 quater mile.
..... finally makes it to the end of the strip.
..End of Rant. Or in other words put up or shutup .
Which means I'll be parked by the time your "high" torque * rpm = HP (kick ass) car
You can google for the specs on any car or engine you'd like.
The Bottom line is HP/LBS. Torque = yea whatever.
Who will guard the guards?
Maybe some just like the challenge of building something .... I own a 400hp 4wd and thats why I built it - to BUILD it.
This is the same moronic agrument that dipshits make re: 2-stroke motorcycle motorcycles.
Thanks to people like this you can only ride post '99 2-stroke motorcycles in the winter (I guess they don't pollute as much in the winter).
I call Bullshit. There are a LOT more (empty) buses belching a lot more pollution into the air every day than 2-strokes. Notice your new lawn mower is a 4-stroke?
And don't even get me started on large ships out in international waters. Do everyone a favor and start a crusade on those polluters! One ship (in international waters) pollutes more than an entire city!
The hipocracy of this Buillshit is enought to make me choke.
Wake up and think for yourself.
Rodger
I know this is off-topic....
What books/resources can one find to teach them about auto repair? I want to learn more about a how a car works. Yeah, I'm a complete automotive novice. Is there anything between a ME textbook and some step-by-step (replace the oil filter) how to? Or is there a good intro to automotive engineering book for hobbiests?
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
The Japanese market Supra Twin Turbo makes 280bhp on paper only... in the real world all three stock models (Jap, UK, US) dynoed next to other make almost identical power readings of 320bhp, with the Jap model having more low-down torque due to the faster spooling ceramic turbine blades - but less tuning potential if you want massive increases in the future (the ceramic turbos are not as robust and forgiving as the steel turbines in the UK and US models).
The lower power figures were a gentlemans agreement between companies and the Japanese government in the mid 90's to stop increased horsepower competition between the sports and performance car manufacturers. It seems less of an issue now though; as the a lot of european cars are starting to make over 300bhp.
Oh oh I seen this episode ... this is where they made Kit evil by putting an Atari 2600 cartridge into his car stereo!
This is old news.
In Germany you can buy these chips and even buy kids or send you cra to a tuning garage!
Lars
There's tons of companies that specialize in this stuff. I bought such a chip for my Twin Turbo 300xz. You do have to do a little sautering, but the boost was absolutely incredible. I was blowing by Corvettes with it... ahhh.. the good old days...
Buses stop at a bus station
Trains stop at a train station
On my desk there's a workstation....
Thanks, man! Didn't see the fucking forest because of the damned trees!
No absurd plastic F1 toys, just solid Detroit steel. A race where the top three finishers are not known before the qualifiying laps are run. A race where the biggest bankroll does not guarantee dominance. Yes, the France family is a bunch of egotistical autocrats. But they do understand that without close competition, spectators lose interest in a hurry (see F1).
Let's see your pathetic Renaults go 190MPH with a restrictor plate on the intake.
Drums are a pain compared to disc, but if you have someone showing you how it works, it's not so bad. Still a pain in the arse. Lots of springs, and it's a riddle to figure out which combination of springs you should install in which order (repair manuals never really explain this well enough), and you almost need 3 hands to do the job sometimes.
Still a worthwhile job. If you do it yourself, see if you can buy a replacement spring kit for your drums (Autozone sold me a small spring replacement kit with my pads on a previous car... all shiny new springs so I can see what I'm doing)
And the auto-adjuster piece... definitely take that apart, clean it thoroughly and grease it up properly. Nothing worse than having rear brakes that won't adjust, or squeal or something, and you get to take the whole thing apart again to figure out what went wrong.
the real at&t mix
You're best off doing this with a completely separate engine, tranny, ECU, etc. Run the performance parts on the track. Use the factory stock parts for road use. Three reasons: one, "good stuff" is disgustingly expensive. Why waste it sitting in traffic jams on the way to work? Two, you'll need a better crank, bearing caps, rods, heads, valve train, clutch, tranny, CV joints, etc. to handle any significant increase in power. Street cars don't come with a Borg Warner T-10 and Ford 9" differential any more, they have light duty drive trains designed for minimum drag (fuel economy). Unless you drive a pickup, you're lucky to have more than a half ton towing rating--the stock driveline, brakes and suspension can't handle the load. Third, iirc it's a $10,000 federal fine if they decide to arrest you for "tampering" with an approved emissions control system (such as the ECU). It doesn't happen often, but it does happen (especially in smoggy, car-crazy California).
on your shoulder
If what you say is true, that you NEVER use some of that 370hp on the street, I'd be very surprised.
I've heard all the bullshit before, as it once came out of my mouth, but after a near death experience, I gave up on having a powerful modified bike on the street. MOST of the time I'd ride normally, given the higher idle etc. but cutting loose once every 3 months on the streets it looking for trouble.
I have no problems with heavily modified vehicles, but when they are not done well (eg. brakes & suspension to stop properly) these cars should only travel on public streets on a trailer.
If someone said that to me 18 years ago, I would have spat the dummy, but one day you'll be mature enough to fathom what I'm trying to say (hopefully), and I hope it doesn't take a fatality (or as in my case, multiple) for you to wake up.
Altering Your Engine With New Chips
I need to go as fast as I can get my car on the on-ramp, and idiots in high power cars are dangerious. My car gets 49hp. I need to floor it at the start of the on ramp, to reach freeway speeds by the end. Maybe your car can do 30-70 in the 40 feet left of the ramp, but I'll be lucky to get 5mph in that distance.
Learn to drive, you should be going as fast as your car can safely go at all points of the on-ramp until you at the speed of traffic. Note the safely part, even with my little car I often have to let up a little to safely take the corner, but they give me space to get up to speed anyway.
AEM makes a product called the EMS. It's a swap-out replacement for your ECU. Most models are supported, and it can run 4-10 cylinder cars. EVERY engine parameter is configurable, plus you can program it to do new things, like turn up the radio when the windows go down.
It willalso add throlle control, mathing spedomerter w/tach to prevent slippage.
BUT BE WARNED. HACKING AN ECU IS NOT LIKE HACKING CODE. THE CODE CONTROLS REAL LIFE MECHANICAL PARTS AND THEY CAN BE DAMAGED.
For isntance, running too lean will destroy an engine. Running too rich won't.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I have to disagree. Sure some, perhaps most, hackers are not engineers. However to make a blanket statement like that is incorrect. I took many engineering classes on my way to a CS degree. I regret not finishing the statics-thermo sequence that mechanical engineers have to take. (Couldn't take that many classes and get good grades so I dropped it) I could have done so though, and I can still go back and do it.
Most engineers learn programing, some become good enough to program. Sort of like every engineer learns their native language, and takes classes in school on it. I'll never speak or write as good as someone who majored in English but I still do both.
If you really think hacking a computer and a car are that much different, go to www.aempower.com and download their ECU demo. It is a completely configurable ECU system you could potentially drop into any computer controlled, fuel injection car up to 10 cylinders.
. php
http://www.aempower.com/product_ems.asp
Click the demo download, install, and open one of the included base maps for an Eclipse.
Their forums where people share their hacking experiences:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/index
This is a step above the "piggy back" (signal interceptor/retransmittor) or firmware re-flashes (resolder flash chip that stores the lookup tables the company researched, using the stock processor, close to what the article talks about). This completely replaces your entire engine management. But it is incredibly configurable. People generally use this product for high boost Supras and Eclipses, but you get the point.
Still think it isn't like hacking?
-Vic If you can't figure out my email, then don't.
Every car I have ever driven (w/ an automatic) had a provision for forcing a downshift. You generally grab the lever and move it out of "D" (my '59 Dodge had pushbuttons). Making an auto not upshift itself itsn't exactly a huge step forward. As to the Mini, it is supposed to be smart enough that when you "floor" the pedel the transmision changes to a ratio that (for that road speed) places the engine in a more powerfull, less eficient RPM. Or were you advocating that the trasmisions comuters be taught to shift in steps to emulate a normal auto?
The 1999 Hyundai Tibuoron had a switch to choose between "performance" and "economy". I quickly learned that it ONLY made a difference when I used super unleaded... but when I did... wow.
Sadly, the bastards removed it from the 2001 Tiburon (along with the glove compartment lock, but that's another rant). I guess they had to emasculate the car's performance to bump up their CAFE fuel economy score to make up for the new XG300 and Santa Fe. Still... I'm convinced that somewhere in the car's wiring harness, the pins are still there, and that if I can find them and add my own switch, the feature will magically re-appear.
Anyone know where the two magic wires/pins on the wiring harness are?
Here in the Netherlands changing or upgrading the chip for engine-management is common for the faster Diesel engines and so on. I don't know why the New York Times is publishing this rather old news now, in stead of 3 years ago when it was a big hype...
... as I am :-)
.030 over to ~440 cubic inches, with 12:1 TRW pistons, Sig Erson cam with .600 lift, ported & polished heads, a huge-ass Holley 850CFM double-pumper carb force-fed by two high volume electric fuel pumps in series, lit by an MSD ignition system and equipped with a Spearco water injection system to keep detonation at bay. It *had* to be making at least 1hp per cubic inch or greater to be able to accelerate 3900 lbs of Torino to ~130mph in the quarter mile in the high 12's.
I had a 1970 Ford Torino with a 429CJ big-block that'd turn high 12's/ low 13's in the quarter mile at ~130mph trap speed and topped out probably around 145. Wasn't much of a corner turner, but did have fabulous brakes for such a beast. It'd accelerate like a jet airplane, sounded like one too with a huge 7-blade fan to pull enough air thru the radiator to keep the engine cooled. Had to keep fairly quiet mufflers on it to appease the parents/neighbors/cops, but the raw power of *425-450hp in a car is definitely something that everyone should be able to experience at least once in a lifetime. The fuel consumption is something you'll only want to experience for a short while, though.
* For those of you who claim BS on the 425+hp, though never had this engine dyno'ed, it was a 429CJ, bored
"The car companies do not like (surprise surprise) people personalizing their vehicle's programming and warn of burning out your engine with bad code, and voiding your warranty."
WELL OF COURSE NOT!
It appears that few Slashdot posters have ever owned a business. I see it every once in a while. Let's think about this:
Anyone making widgets of any kind come with an implied warranty, even if it's just 30 days or so. So what happens when a tool comes out that would have semi-enlightened people hacking something they don't truly understand start to optimize their widget? Right: warranty work out the ass.
How many people here have overclocked their video cards? Do ya think that's the fault of the manufacturer? Heck no! Take refined jet-fuel you mix in your basesment and put it in the family car: BOOM! "Wah! My car broke!"
Manufacturers have to 'do the math' before they can start the assembly lines. Simply figuring out how much profit they should expect is very, very complicated. If it doesn't sell, they'll be stuck with a lot of stuff to store...or if it sells and you have to replace each one (like the first round of boots from Lands' End) you wind up taking out a loan to keep people from suing you.
Some people thought hacking the I-Opener was intended as an open source bonanza...but remember that people, using their own money, made it available to the public. And notice they're not in business anymore...
Hack if you want to. Heck, I'll HELP ya. But don't expect the manufacturer to pay for your mistakes, should you make'em.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Superchips seems to be conservative in their estimates of increased performance. They only claim 10% more horsepower, 13% more torque.
It is quite apparent that you are chosing to just dismiss me as wrong.
Power=Torque X Revolutions/Time
Assuming that your peak power is still at the same rpm (which is likely)
Torqe = Force X distance, I'm assuming you didn't change any component geometry.
For the power to increase, obviously the related forces increase, the bearings, gears, shafts are all experiencing higher loads. This WILL happen.
I wasn't saying your car, just a general statement using reasonable assumptions.
Assuming the TT rated engine has the same weakest link components, sure it is possible that it will have a lower expected life, but lower isn't necessarily insufficient, and I would guess Audi has taken this into account.
This may or may not be an issue, if the automaker built your car to have 5% failure after 200k miles, even halving that means you only have a 5% failure at 100k, to reach a 50% failure rate you might have to join the million mile club.
Fatigue failure tends to happen on a distribution resembling a log normal distribution.
As a Porsche tuner in South Florida. I've programmed dozen's of cars. Not only have I programmed and dyno tuned high end exotics, I've done everything in between from Hondas, to F-150's. A Porsche is a prime example of actually *losing* horsepower from changing the default specs on a stock motor. Most "performance" motors do. And I use the term "performance" lightly. A engine mod might need a small tweak in the advance, fuel pressure, or squirt, but for 99.5% of all engine mods less than new high performance heads, pistons, or crank, there *will* be a tradeoff of power somewhere else. The main reason for any changes from the factory curves is just plain prevention. If you don't modify your knock-sensor after certain mods, you *will* throw a rod the first time you take it to the street. If you just gained 5HP at Redline in for your Ricer by changing your chip, consider yourself lucky. Just remember the next time you line up next to my Blown 930, that you *gave up* 10 horsepower from 1000RPM to 5100RPM for that 6000 "blip".
Or maybe they do. I just had mine checked (Pierce County, WA, USA) and all they did was test the gas cap for leaks and scan the ECU for codes. That appears to be the standard here OBDII equipped cars. The have two-wheel dynos that they use on cars w/o OBDII, and might have used on me if I had 2wd. My catalytic converter is starting to fail (I reset the code for the test) and it has come to my attention that I buy a "test pipe" and dummy after-cat O2 sensor (that will spoof the ECU) for less that a new cat. My car is not modified but this one is tempting. I would still pass the test, save some cash, and maybe get an extra horse or two.
If you think getting more power out of the engine is just an ECU modification, they don't understand how to really upgrade an engine.
In Germany, where companies like Alpina (for BMW's), Brabaus (for Mercedes-Benzes) and Ruf (for Porsches) do specialized ultra fast versions of German cars, they do things like upgrading the engine innards and putting in stronger transmissions, better suspension pieces, better brakes and better tires in addition to upgrading the engine's ECU. The result is a car that can go past 300 km/h (186 mph) safely yet be very docile to drive at slower speeds.
In my opinion, the only ECU-only upgrade worth talking about is the upgrade that increases the horsepower of the 1.8-liter I-4 turbocharged engine used on VW and Audi cars, mostly because the engine innards were designed for that type of power boost. For example, when VW upgraded this engine from 150 to 180 bhp all it needed was an ECU programming change.
Does anyone know if this works well with the new AOL hardware being advertised by West Coast Choppers? I really don't want to cause the end of the Universe by installing the two technologies together......
Why bother with electronics, when you can do something that's time tested and proven -- mechanics.
One word: Cost. In many cases, it is less expensive to accomplish a particular function electronically rather than mechanically. This certainly isn't the case with every system, of course.
With my van, since everything is mechanical, it's easy to find the problem... symptoms are fewer when a problem occurs... There's not too much guesswork in diagnosing it. Blame that on the automakers/dealers policies, not on the electronics. Actually, in many cases, it should be fairly easy to diagnose the problem:
1. Determine what error condition the ECU (or whatever module recorded).
2. Look-up what the likely/known causes are of that code.
3. Narrow it down to the specific component involved using standard troubleshooting techniques.
IMHO, much of the problem is that the automakers make it difficult to accomplish 1 and 2 unless (and sometimes even if) you are a dealer. It would be much easier if there were a way for the vehicle owner to determine a.) what code cased the warning lamp to come one, and b.) what the likely/known causes of that code are.
It is only illegal to remove your catalytic converter where emissions testing is required by law. Where I live, there are no emissions testing. As a matter of fact, emissions testing isn't required in cities smaller than 150,000 people and even at 150,000 people and larger it has to be voted in and my city voted to not have emissions testing. Taking your catalytic converter off your vehicle is only a moral question, not a legal one in cases where emissions testing is not mandatory. For a mechanic, it is a question of legal liability, not a matter of whether it is legal to do it or not in a case by case basis.
They drive things with .00001 cc displacement engines and not alot more space than that in the drivers compartment!
That would have been this report. They drove into things in it, parked it in the sea and let the tide come in over it, they set it on fire, they put it on the top of a tall building being demolished and dropped a caravan on it. And it still started.
The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's
Hacking a car and getting an extra 5% power out of it has as much point as hacking a bus to get an extra 5%. Ooh, the zero to sixty time goes from 5.4 to 5.2 seconds. Big... fucking... deal... If you want speed do it properly in the first place.
k eI D=83
Acceleration = Force/Mass
Get rid of all that extra, unnecessary mass.
Today's sports motorcycle weighs 175kg and produce 135kW. They rev to 16,000 rpm, do 0-60mph in under 3 seconds, 90+mph in first gear, 180mph in top. And you can buy one for $8,000.
THAT's how you go fast. Gravity and the size of your bollocks are the limiting factors.
Alternatively you put an insanely large engine in the thing, like this:
http://www.triumph.co.uk/site/bikes/page.cfm?Bi
Compared to bikes, this fucking about with a car to try make it go faster is utterly pointless. Even when you've done it you might as well be driving a bus for all the difference it makes.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Mebee it is just me, but I don't want to hack my car for any reason. Honestly, hacking a computer is one thing, but changing the basic settings and safty cuts of a huge hunk of transportation metal and explosives seems a bit (read: a lot) more, shall I say, risky (read: insanely stupid)?
Save Sam and Max!
...you insensitive clod!
Trees everywhere, and not a forest in sight.
Holy misleading analogy. I've seen so much misinformation and FUD in the comments that my head is spinning. Look folks, people have been "chipping" their cars for years, and there are many reputable companies selling ECU chips. For example, APR has been in the business for a long time and is well-respected. Their chip will give my VW Passat 1.8t an additional 45hp, and you don't even have to take anything apart since it can be directly programmed. And their chips are well tested and won't "burn out" your engine. Considering that the 1.8t engine is used in many cars and hp varies from 150-225, I think what APR does is well within the engines limits. All in all, it's rather conservative.
Some other pieces of helpful info: Chips frequently give you better gas milage and I've never heard of anyone (in the VW world) failing an emmission test because of it.
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
you are correct (my mistake) on the cam...
:) The flame front in the mixture travels at reasonably constant speed, so at higher RPM (on 4 strokes) you typically need ever increasing ignition advance to allow enough time for the flame front to reach through the mixture.
Hehe, well it turns out you actually might be right. Honda and BMW appear to have variable valve timing systems. So you could potentially adjust that.Though, at a guess I would imagine the stock settings would already be close to optimum. And valve timing is not the first thing you'd change to get more power out of a stock engine - ignition timing and fuel ratios are where stock engines can be (easily) improved on the most, in general, AFAIK.
but its still the (and the stroke of the pistons) relative position to the spark (as you say) that determines the amount that the fuel/air mixture is compressed which is directly relevant to the amount of power which is produced...
No, the ignition advance does not determine the compression ratio. It determines only when the spark lights.
Valve timing can affect compression ratio though. Which potentially is adjustable to varying degrees on some engines (from "not very much, choice of 2 settings" on VTEC, to "lots" on the BMW engines it appears from googling).
I hope i did not imply that higher octane fuel has more energy... simply put, that energy can be harnessed more effectively
Right, yes.
by allowing greater compression before combustion.
No, compression doesnt come into it. You can not change the compression ratio without changing mechanical characteristics of the engine (valve timing, variable or not, included.)
Hence in a tuned engine (chipped) greater power can be made from the same amount of fuel, though the potential energy of it had never changed.
Right. Though, I wouldnt call a chipped engine a tuned one.
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
From Title 42, Chapter 85, Sub-chapter II, Part A, Sec 7524.a of The Clean Air Act
See for the full text of The Clean Air Act.
http://www.epa.gov/region5/defs/html/caa.ht
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
Since you are obviously confused about the thesis of my post, I have provided the following synopsis:
I did not argue the pros/cons of environmental regulations, as you seem to think and are angrily responding to.
I did explain the following facts:
1. It is illegal to tweak under current US Law.
2. It is also not safe if you don't understand the full ramifications of the tweak.
I urge you, Annonymous Coward, to wake up and RTFP! Don't get me started about the inherrent hypocracy of your post.
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
Ok, I think you're talking specifically about variable-valve timing engines, eg Honda VTEC probably being one of the best known. I've no idea what kind of adjustibility these systems have via ECU (VTEC seems not be terribly adjustible)
AFAIK, VTEC is in no way controlled by any electronics, at least most versions of VTEC. (I believe some super high-end models on some Acura vehicles may have some sort of botched electronic control these days. Newer Civic Si's have better VTEC than the NSX though.) It's purely mechanical, and IMO doesn't even qualify as VVT. Two static settings is not variable. True VVT engines are also not throttled in the conventional manner. Who needs a throttle plate when you have complete control over the duration and height of the valve openings?
IMO, Honduh's VTEC is crap, and most of the teenagers who brag about don't even understand how either VTEC or VVT works. Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes all do it better.
Who needs valves anyway? Long Live The Rotary!!
If I have a Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Dodge, where can I go to get a chip?
I _know_ Hondas and Acuras are very much catered to for aftermarket mod businesses. (Just because you put Altezza taillights on your Civic [or a GoFastParticleGenerator trunk-top "wing"], it doesn't mean yer gonna go any faster!)
Just because Honda mod kits are prevalent, it does not mean this platform is superior to other platforms. Honda engines require high RPMs before useable [go faster now] torque becomes available. It is very hard to keep your RPMS in the 6000+ range, because the engine increases its RPMs much more rapidly in the high end of the range than it does in the lower end of the range.
Torque is what makes you go faster NOW. I want torque in low RPM ranges where the engine is SLOWLY advancing its rate of rotation (and less susceptible to governance when approaching "high" RPMs).
Although I agree that the added complexity of newer cars is terrible, you completly fail to mention safety implications.
;-)
Although computerized cars may experience some day-to-day problems, it's rarely ever a safety issue. Computerized cars have the technology that purely mechanical cars do not, and when you hit a patch of ice, snow, dirt, etc, I'm sure you'd much rather have dealt with those day-to-day problems, but it's too late at that point.
Just think, that's why you don't see all that many classic-car afficonatos, they're all being removed from the gene pool by natural selection...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Actually, I mentioned in my previous post that my father's cars had been totalled by being hit, not the engine's failing... My parents survived each of those crashes because the cars were built of steel, instead of aluminum. The body structure was stronger than most of today's cars, which are DESIGNED to crumple and drop the engines onto the pavement. Yes, safety has come a long way, so have electronics. I'm not saying they HAVEN'T. The whole point of this thread was to discuss ECCU upgrades... I simply pointed out that mechanical upgrades will always get you further than meddling with the electronics. Mechanics is something nearly anyone willing to learn can modify. Electronics, on the other hand, requires specialized knowledge of every component in the vehicle that the ECCU utilizes, which is typically well beyond any scope of understanding that the shade tree mechanic could possibly WANT to learn. If they did, they'd be working for a large corporation (or starting one) making millions every year because "Knowledge is Power". As far as the lack of classic car folks... That's because the smart ones keep their cars in the garage, out of the elements -- to keep it classic and intact, and gaining value every day it's in one piece. Many of them have them on display at a local car museum. I used to work at one... we had a delorian in the basement... absolutely spectacular car up close in mint condition! -Phyre
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thom
Ahh the GT-R. Very popular among the street racers near where I live - Forget 600hp. The real enthusiasts push some serious grunt with these. (In excess of 1000hp)
Skylines downunder
Performance chips have been on the market almost as long as there have been electronic ignitions & I remember "hacking" point ignitions by changing to centrifugal advance distributors, tweaking the timing advance, etc.
Of course, the ultimate "hardware hackers" in the automotive world begin by changing parts like cams, headers, pistons & rods, etc.
I used to wrench on a sportsman class NHRA bracket racing car. Even though we were pretty much shoestring, the car had electronics to compensate for driver reaction time at the starting line, to control shifting based on optimum rpm & limit revs at the top end to keep the car from "breaking out" of its dial-in E.T.
The richer folks had sophisticated data logging equipment on their cars, usually feeding into a laptop for analysis between runs. And the pros? Whoo hoo! Hacker heaven!
Now, for street cars, things are a bit different. There is an inverse relationship between how much you can push an engine & engine life. Putting a modded chip into an otherwise stock automobile is often an quick way to buy a new engine.
For the nitrous oxide crowd, take a look at a tear down of an nitroussed engine. The pistons end up being pretty rapidly oxidized...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
the wankel: one moving part
my buddy has an fd, oh i like those things
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
98% or so of what you said was correct and the performance/fuel efficiency was pretty close. in reality, the more efficiently a car burns fuel, the more power it makes. now, along with this, the more fuel you burn the more power you make. so, most of the time when you see significant performance gains, they result in worse fuel economy simply because they are burning more fuel, not because they are burning it less efficiently(quite the opposite).
the end result appears very similar to burning fuel less efficiently simply because the mileage went down. a very simple mistake, ill give you that one. oh, one more thing you were right about taht i should mention: high hp engines do burn fuel less efficiently but make the power thru burning lots of fuel. this would easily appear to be an inverse relationship of performance/fuel efficiency
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
Yes, it was about 98% and I am guilty of oversimplifying.
Optimum power for a gasoline engine is around 1:12 fuel:air mix. It produces more HC's and CO than the leaner mixture set by the engine computer - around 1:9 (off the top of my head) It's in this perfomance vs. clean burning range that increasing performance(energy) lowers fuel efficiency(energy/gallon). While you get more bang, you also burn the fuel less completely. This not-fully oxidized, exhausted fuel is wasted calories of energy, thus wasted fuel in an environmental and energy utilization sense. In a performance sense its not wasted becasue it gives you more horsepower, which is your goal. The direct realtionship you alluded to is also in this range, but it is between performance(energy) and fuel burned,
You said "The more efficiently a car burns fuel, the more power it makes" is generally true as you move from ~1:5 (barely running) to 1:9(optimum efficiency) Ultimately optimum fuel efficiency is not the same point on the curve as optimum power. Moving from 1:9 to 1:12 is an increase in power, but a reduction in efficiency. It is that part of the curve on which fine tuning occurs and I was discussing.
Incidentally, the additional fuel you burn should give you a corresponding increase in distance and not affect MPG if there was not an indirect relationship between power and fuel efficiency. ( The whole curve is really bell-shaped, so we are concerned with the interval between emissions control and max performance. MPG is affected becasue you increase the fuel delivery and don't burn all of it - i.e. waste gasoline. This is due to the chemical reaction equilibrium dynamics. As temp, pressure, and oxidized fuel increase in the chamber, further fuel burning slows. It takes too long to get that last bit and now you are off the optimum angle on the crank to produce max power with burning, so it is exhausted and another charge delivered. Horespower equals maximum and quick combustion during the optimum power angle on the crank. By adding more fuel, you just increase the amount that is burned in that critical time, but you also waste quite a bit more in the exhaust to do it. Its a trade off.
There are other computer adjustmemnts at play besides the main two: timing and fuel mix. Combustion chamber temperature plays into the performance vs. emissions issue, too. This control is concerned with nitrogen oxide (NO) emissions, which produces brown smog.
Thermodynamics tells you that the warmer an engine runs, the more efficient it becomes in its conversion of energy. The limiting factor in your car's engine is the temperature at which your oil begins to oxidize and fail as a lubricant. (This is much lower, ~500 degrees, than the melting point of metal components. Metal melts subsequent to friction after lubrication fails). Higher temperatures in the combustion chamber also produce greater amounts of NO, so the computer's programming is concerned with combustion chamber temps and controls auxillary fans, intake air temperature with a thermal air bybass system (TAB), timing, and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to lower them.
EGR opens a valve and admits exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber - displacing maximum fuel/air charge. Since exhaust gas is inert and not an oxidizer its effect is to reduce the apparent displacement of the engine while maintaining fuel:air mix. This smaller charge reduces the temperature of the combustion stroke (and power) The goal is less NO emissions, but power is sacrificed.
Back in the 70's, carbeurated engines had to lower compression ratios, add EGR, and drop fuel:air ratios, among other measures, to meet emissions. They took significant performance hits. Manifold fuel injection, better intake mainfold design, and multiple chmamber valves has greatly helped in restoring the lost power despite the power-robbing emission control devices. A lighter-weight chasis gives the impression of more power, so most consumers are happy with the present performance of their vehicles.
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
The jurisdiction of The Clean Air Act is the United States and its territories. This act is enforceable in a town of 1 person with no mandated testing or New York City and everything in between. If the vehicle is on the public road it is covered by this act.
Emissions testing falls under another area of this act and the local presence or absence of it does not exempt you from compliance concerning tampering with devices. You just aren't as likely to get caught if you do.
The population data you mentioned is regarding cities required to meet air quality standards. You don't have to test cars to do this. Some cities test cars and still don't consistently meet air quality standards (Denver and LA). Others don't test and meet the standards (Dallas). Weather, industry, and agriculture are big factors in this phenomena, but cars contribute too. It's up to your city to decide if checking cars will have a significant effect on air pollution and is politically feasable.
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
I replaced the bushes in my 4WD. Fortunately I asked knowledgable people questions *before* I started as it's really easy to pull leaf springs out, but damn hard to put them back unless you do it the right way. Same goes with any component likely to be full of springs or be assembled to close tolerances.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
...are VW turbocharged engines.
One of them (mine) is the 130hp TDI Golf Mk IV, engine type ASZ (also used in Jetta/Bora, Polo and Passat). The other one is the 1.8T type (150/170hp, depending on production year), where some people went up to 250hp, just with a chip.
Get a chip from a trustworthy company offering a warranty on your drivetrain...