Not very proprietary. They've used off the shelf parts for much of the units for over a decade.
Sure they use their own motherboard, and often a special power supply, but so do many of the big names.
What off the shelf parts? Sure, they grab a stick of ram here, a harddrive there, but the rest is pretty much motherboards with integrated everything, in a highly non-standard case. Pretty much the only thing you can easily upgrade or replace in a Mac is the ram and the harddrive, unless you have a PowerMac. Sure, many PC manufacturers are guilty of the same crap too, but you can always build or buy a PC with off the shelf parts if you want.
I agree. Quite simply, I think it's time for the Olympics to take another 2,000 year hiatus. It's all far too commercialized, and all about money now. The original spirit of the games has been lost.
Exactly. If someone I know needs a budget box for basic tasks I won't start by pricing out new parts. I'll start looking at used computers. Places that sell used coporate workstations will have higher-end used PIII boxes (800Mhz-1Ghz, 256-512MB of ram, AGP video) can be had for under $100. That's plenty for someone who wants to do basic web browsing, and can run Windows XP or a modern Linux distrobution just fine. Lower end P4 boxes are about $200. Even after adding in a DVD-RW drive ($35) and a USB2.0 card ($20), it's still a good deal.
There is a big difference between letting you install something on older hardware with no support, and coming up with artifical restrictions to keep people from installing it on older hardware. Right now Apple seems to like to do stuff like "Oh, no FireWire ports? Then no 10.4 for you!" It's not hard to imagine them using the DRM to do the exact same thing.
Re:yep, great benchmarks, but lacking in features.
on
MacBook Pro Benchmarks
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· Score: 1
Actually, the most fun is watching Apple fanboys go from "Firewire rules and USB2 sucks!" to "Who the hell uses Firewire?" because Apple decided not to include FireWire 800 on their newest laptop.
No, the G4 is a 32-bit processor as well. Remember Apple never released a G5 laptop, and we are talking about laptops here. Had this been about the G5 iMac vs. the Intel iMac, you probably would have had a point though . ..
It may still of been a mistake for Apple to release 32bit x86 machines, as Apple (and people who make software for Apples) are going to have to support 32bit x86 for years to come, along with 32bit PPC, 64bit PPC, and 64bit x86. My guess is that the 32bit x86 Apple machines are going to be relatively short lived, thus Apple could of skipped having to support that particular platform just by waiting a little longer. As another bonus, if the only version of OSX-x86 out there was 64bit, they would of effectively locked out many generic PCs from running it just from the simple fact that most generic PCs are still 32bit.
Wrong. They don't sell copies. The only way to get osx-x86 is to buy an intel mac.
An Intel Mac.... which which comes with a copy x86? You can certainly buy a copy of OSX x86. Just at the moment it comes with a rather large hardware dongle attached.
Get real. According to this logic, anytime anybody benefits from something you've done, you're "working for them for free." I'm not surprised to see that the "gimme gimme gimme" mentality of GPL proponents remains intact.
It's not like that, it's the idea that you can also benefit from letting someone else use the code because they are required to make the changes they make available. If they didn't care about stuff like that, they wouldn't use the GPL in the first place.
The main difference I see is that 99% of PCs still look like ass.
Of course, looks are subjective. Apple's styling is pretty hit and miss with me, but in reality I don't care what it looks like so long as it does its job cheaply and effectively.
No, quicktime didn't ever "suck", it was always quite good.
Wha? Have you ever installed it? On Windows, it likes to put icons everywhere, start up unnessecary processes, and steal file extensions. It nags you everytime you start it up to buy the Pro version. Furthermore, it has a crappy and ugly user interface. In comparison, WMP isn't that bad of a program provided you can find a lightweight skin you like. Quicktime and Real Player are two programs I will never install on a Windows box.
Of course, I've seen several times where someone did just that, and the theif was too stupid to check the doors first and went ahead and punched out the locks or broke the window anyway. I really don't know what you can do about that (leave the windows down?)
You are correct - USB carries its info digitally; but the video monitor signal coming off the video card is almost always analog, and subject to signal degradation under marginal circumstances. You really don't want to run video signal cables any longer than you have to.
If I was building a computer today that needed a long video cable, I would go with DVI and a flat panel monitor. DVI is digital, so no loss of quality (and looks way better than using the VGA input on the flatpanel in any circumstance). I don't know how long you can go with DVI, but I have successfully used a 10ft extension with a 6ft DVI cable with no problems.
Probably because most PCs draw enough power that the power supply would have to have a fan regardless of whether it is internal or external. And the PC would generate enough heat that you would have to have an exhaust fan or two to get the heat out of the case. So combining the two by installing the power supply in the case with an exhaust fan makes sense. Just like how Apple puts the power supplies in the cases of their PowerMacs.
And yes, there are PCs with external power supplies. Most of them have smaller cases, and low power components, much like the Mac Mini.
If you read the review, they hook a bunch of stuff up to it, and measure the draw to be 332W(!). And it seems to handle the load fine. However, I wouldn't want that for a long term solution.
Actually, daylight savings was brought in primarily to benefit farmers.
Actually, that's a myth. Farmers base their schedule around when there is going to be daylight, not around what the clock says. And chickens and cows don't care at all what time it is.
Ha! The only problem with that is that the used Mac market is even more ridiculous. A used PowerMac G4 at about 1Ghz still commands about $500. It's not a bad machine, but at that price point you're competing with new PCs that are far more powerful.
Oh, by the way, a Mac can be bought for $500 that will use your existing display and (USB) keyboard-- it always cracks me up when you guys try to prop up your anti-Apple arguments by bitching about the price of their top-of-the-line hardware while conveniently ignoring their low-end machines.
Well, maybe because you need to buy a high end Mac in order to do things I'm accustomed to with my lower end PCs. Like being able to install expansion cards, run dual head, install more than one harddrive, etc. For me, the $500 Mac Mini won't cut it - though it is a cheap SFF computer that I might consider using it for a specialized task if need be. The iMac is far too expensive, considering how restrictive it is. So if I was to replace my "ugly" AMD tower with a Mac, I would have to spend atleast $2000 for a PowerMac. Which is twice as much as I've ever paid for any PC, and I know I could piece together a pretty nice AMD64 system that'll do what I want for half the cost. So yes, people will bitch about the cost of their top-of-the-line hardware because it's the hardware that they would have to buy to do what they want it to.
Is it just me, or is anyone else thinking, "The way the industry is going towards Orwellian dystopian dreams, I might just want to get out of computing"?
I'm thinking more along the lines of "Oh geeze, how many years will I be able to nurse along this Socket A system to keep it running?", along with "Should I go out and buy a newer system without TPM while I still can?", and "Should I start stockpiling spare parts too?".
Maybe not, but the question is, why would this destroy the hardware business instead of just enlarging the market? Why would the same Apple customers who now are buying premium hardware not simply carry on doing so?
Because the premium hardware in the PC world is often cheaper too, and will come with features that are not available on the Mac (like AMD processors). If Apple started selling OSX for generic x86, people would be switching over at all points in Apple's line up.
Hmm, let's do a quick sanity check here. What percentage of computers run on PPC vs what percentage of computers run on x86? Huge, huge difference? Maybe there's your answer.
Reality check: What good is a bunch of Windows binaries going to do for OSX? Answer: None. Hardware manufacturers write drivers for operating systems, not processor types. That's why hardware support for Linux can be iffy when Windows XP will run on the exact same machine with full hardware support.
I don't know about "a long time". Windows XP has pretty good support for that stuff, and dates back to October 2001. At that point, OSX 10.0 was only a few months old.
Most online gaming requires low latency and not that much bandwidth. The analog/digital conversions usually add latency, which is why modems don't handle games very well. With that said, if you have a good ISP (very low latency on their end), and a decent modem (none of that Winmodem crap), you can get by on a dial up connection.
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Since control of Disney is already in Apple's pocket...
Steve Jobs holds 7% of Disney. I would hardly call that control of Disney.
Not very proprietary. They've used off the shelf parts for much of the units for over a decade.
Sure they use their own motherboard, and often a special power supply, but so do many of the big names.
What off the shelf parts? Sure, they grab a stick of ram here, a harddrive there, but the rest is pretty much motherboards with integrated everything, in a highly non-standard case. Pretty much the only thing you can easily upgrade or replace in a Mac is the ram and the harddrive, unless you have a PowerMac. Sure, many PC manufacturers are guilty of the same crap too, but you can always build or buy a PC with off the shelf parts if you want.
I agree. Quite simply, I think it's time for the Olympics to take another 2,000 year hiatus. It's all far too commercialized, and all about money now. The original spirit of the games has been lost.
Exactly. If someone I know needs a budget box for basic tasks I won't start by pricing out new parts. I'll start looking at used computers. Places that sell used coporate workstations will have higher-end used PIII boxes (800Mhz-1Ghz, 256-512MB of ram, AGP video) can be had for under $100. That's plenty for someone who wants to do basic web browsing, and can run Windows XP or a modern Linux distrobution just fine. Lower end P4 boxes are about $200. Even after adding in a DVD-RW drive ($35) and a USB2.0 card ($20), it's still a good deal.
There is a big difference between letting you install something on older hardware with no support, and coming up with artifical restrictions to keep people from installing it on older hardware. Right now Apple seems to like to do stuff like "Oh, no FireWire ports? Then no 10.4 for you!" It's not hard to imagine them using the DRM to do the exact same thing.
Actually, the most fun is watching Apple fanboys go from "Firewire rules and USB2 sucks!" to "Who the hell uses Firewire?" because Apple decided not to include FireWire 800 on their newest laptop.
No, the G4 is a 32-bit processor as well. Remember Apple never released a G5 laptop, and we are talking about laptops here. Had this been about the G5 iMac vs. the Intel iMac, you probably would have had a point though . . .
It may still of been a mistake for Apple to release 32bit x86 machines, as Apple (and people who make software for Apples) are going to have to support 32bit x86 for years to come, along with 32bit PPC, 64bit PPC, and 64bit x86. My guess is that the 32bit x86 Apple machines are going to be relatively short lived, thus Apple could of skipped having to support that particular platform just by waiting a little longer. As another bonus, if the only version of OSX-x86 out there was 64bit, they would of effectively locked out many generic PCs from running it just from the simple fact that most generic PCs are still 32bit.
Wrong. They don't sell copies. The only way to get osx-x86 is to buy an intel mac.
An Intel Mac.... which which comes with a copy x86? You can certainly buy a copy of OSX x86. Just at the moment it comes with a rather large hardware dongle attached.
Get real. According to this logic, anytime anybody benefits from something you've done, you're "working for them for free." I'm not surprised to see that the "gimme gimme gimme" mentality of GPL proponents remains intact.
It's not like that, it's the idea that you can also benefit from letting someone else use the code because they are required to make the changes they make available. If they didn't care about stuff like that, they wouldn't use the GPL in the first place.
The main difference I see is that 99% of PCs still look like ass.
Of course, looks are subjective. Apple's styling is pretty hit and miss with me, but in reality I don't care what it looks like so long as it does its job cheaply and effectively.
No, quicktime didn't ever "suck", it was always quite good.
Wha? Have you ever installed it? On Windows, it likes to put icons everywhere, start up unnessecary processes, and steal file extensions. It nags you everytime you start it up to buy the Pro version. Furthermore, it has a crappy and ugly user interface. In comparison, WMP isn't that bad of a program provided you can find a lightweight skin you like. Quicktime and Real Player are two programs I will never install on a Windows box.
Of course, I've seen several times where someone did just that, and the theif was too stupid to check the doors first and went ahead and punched out the locks or broke the window anyway. I really don't know what you can do about that (leave the windows down?)
You are correct - USB carries its info digitally; but the video monitor signal coming off the video card is almost always analog, and subject to signal degradation under marginal circumstances. You really don't want to run video signal cables any longer than you have to.
If I was building a computer today that needed a long video cable, I would go with DVI and a flat panel monitor. DVI is digital, so no loss of quality (and looks way better than using the VGA input on the flatpanel in any circumstance). I don't know how long you can go with DVI, but I have successfully used a 10ft extension with a 6ft DVI cable with no problems.
Probably because most PCs draw enough power that the power supply would have to have a fan regardless of whether it is internal or external. And the PC would generate enough heat that you would have to have an exhaust fan or two to get the heat out of the case. So combining the two by installing the power supply in the case with an exhaust fan makes sense. Just like how Apple puts the power supplies in the cases of their PowerMacs.
And yes, there are PCs with external power supplies. Most of them have smaller cases, and low power components, much like the Mac Mini.
If you read the review, they hook a bunch of stuff up to it, and measure the draw to be 332W(!). And it seems to handle the load fine. However, I wouldn't want that for a long term solution.
Actually, daylight savings was brought in primarily to benefit farmers.
Actually, that's a myth. Farmers base their schedule around when there is going to be daylight, not around what the clock says. And chickens and cows don't care at all what time it is.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16823126181
Ha! The only problem with that is that the used Mac market is even more ridiculous. A used PowerMac G4 at about 1Ghz still commands about $500. It's not a bad machine, but at that price point you're competing with new PCs that are far more powerful.
Oh, by the way, a Mac can be bought for $500 that will use your existing display and (USB) keyboard-- it always cracks me up when you guys try to prop up your anti-Apple arguments by bitching about the price of their top-of-the-line hardware while conveniently ignoring their low-end machines.
Well, maybe because you need to buy a high end Mac in order to do things I'm accustomed to with my lower end PCs. Like being able to install expansion cards, run dual head, install more than one harddrive, etc. For me, the $500 Mac Mini won't cut it - though it is a cheap SFF computer that I might consider using it for a specialized task if need be. The iMac is far too expensive, considering how restrictive it is. So if I was to replace my "ugly" AMD tower with a Mac, I would have to spend atleast $2000 for a PowerMac. Which is twice as much as I've ever paid for any PC, and I know I could piece together a pretty nice AMD64 system that'll do what I want for half the cost. So yes, people will bitch about the cost of their top-of-the-line hardware because it's the hardware that they would have to buy to do what they want it to.
Is it just me, or is anyone else thinking, "The way the industry is going towards Orwellian dystopian dreams, I might just want to get out of computing"?
I'm thinking more along the lines of "Oh geeze, how many years will I be able to nurse along this Socket A system to keep it running?", along with "Should I go out and buy a newer system without TPM while I still can?", and "Should I start stockpiling spare parts too?".
Maybe not, but the question is, why would this destroy the hardware business instead of just enlarging the market? Why would the same Apple customers who now are buying premium hardware not simply carry on doing so?
Because the premium hardware in the PC world is often cheaper too, and will come with features that are not available on the Mac (like AMD processors). If Apple started selling OSX for generic x86, people would be switching over at all points in Apple's line up.
Hmm, let's do a quick sanity check here. What percentage of computers run on PPC vs what percentage of computers run on x86? Huge, huge difference? Maybe there's your answer.
Reality check: What good is a bunch of Windows binaries going to do for OSX? Answer: None. Hardware manufacturers write drivers for operating systems, not processor types. That's why hardware support for Linux can be iffy when Windows XP will run on the exact same machine with full hardware support.
On the other hand, that list doesn't offer anything that I want or don't already have in Windows XP. Vista is going to be a real tough sell.
I don't know about "a long time". Windows XP has pretty good support for that stuff, and dates back to October 2001. At that point, OSX 10.0 was only a few months old.
gaming? out of the question
Most online gaming requires low latency and not that much bandwidth. The analog/digital conversions usually add latency, which is why modems don't handle games very well. With that said, if you have a good ISP (very low latency on their end), and a decent modem (none of that Winmodem crap), you can get by on a dial up connection.
Nor did the original poster attribute it to Bill Gates. So what is your point?