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MacBook Pro Benchmarks
jfpoole writes "Geek Patrol has benchmarked a MacBook Pro and a PowerBook G4 using Geekbench, their benchmarking utility. It's impressive to see how well the MacBook Pro performs compared to the PowerBook G4 (at least when it comes to Universal Binary performance)." Their benchmarks aren't particularly surprising, and they lack the most important benchmark: Frames Per Second during Molten Core Combat (or as it is more commonly referred to since I made it up 5 seconds ago, the FPSDMCCMark, which is the only number I'm waiting for).
Having owned a Powerbook G4 for almost a year now, I have no regrets. It's still going to take a while for them to get the kinks out. It's gonna be great when the 2nd revision comes out though!
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
rofl. so true.
not really surprised though, i think the major objection to intel chips for most applications was stability not speed. ditto for the graphics cards. more boxes = more games = more devs on the cards.
props to the amusing summary though.
A new product that's an improvement over the model it replaces. Wow! That's news!
Before the aricle even went live, the site was slashdotted. I guess the geek patrol got ambushed.
Maybe they should benchmark web servers next.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I wonder if standing between the bank and auction house in Orgrimmar would be a good proxy for Molten Core combat, as this test can be done much easier, and within seconds of installing WoW on a MacBook (such as one that happens to be on display in a store). And I agree with waiting for the revised models to come out, Apple computers seems to have funny things happen when they are the first edition.
Apparently Geekpatrol is hosted on a G4 Powerbook. Were it hosted on a Intellitosh it would have survived a bit longer.
This article might have pushed me over the edge. But since the server was slashdotted before it even it that main page I never got the chance. Guess I'll have to stick with WinTel hardware now.
Nice to see Apple has finally bought into the "MHz Myth."
Actually, it's a relatively recent addition to the Powerbook line. My older Powerbook doesn't have it.
There's no proof Apple's using any of the DRM, so your point is moot.
I'm lusting after one of these puppies, but there's no way the purchase makes sense for me until there's more software available.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Molten Core? L2BWL, Noob.
;) )
(No, while I play WoW, I'm not actually a raider, but if Blizzard is allowed to condescendingly put L2BWL in a video they distribute about it, I can condescendingly put it in a slashdot post
I thought the new cpu was a G5 replacement.
ConsultingFair.com
Given that many of the same apps run on both Mac and PC platforms, why don't more people bench Mac vs. PC? I mean we are even talking about virtually the same architecture, the mac is now just another OS running on x86 hardware like Linux et al. I know it's interesting to see how the latest Mac stacks up against last years model, but how bout someone bench the latest Mac against it's contemporaries? The reason this isn't often done is because they usually get thrashed pretty bad, and feathers get ruffled (see: Adobe "PC Preferred" ad campaign, or Apple's SPEC processor benchmarks that were rejected because they were not completely legit). Windows always gets put against Linux, but Mac never seems to get benched against other platforms, and it is much, much closer to PC, as both platforms run many of the same apps. Just my two pennies...
i guess those kexts, the existence of fairplay and the itunes store, the expansion of itunes to video, and the AACS standards are not convincing enough?
Weather or not jobs likes it, these things are being loaded with DRM. I'm a loyal apple user, well used to be, but if this continues my g5 will be the last apple computer i buy.
as for the firewire 800, my friend's 17 inch was bought in 2003(if my chronology is right) and had fw800. 3 years is a long time in the computing world.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
No altivec. Less space than a Dell. Lame.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
It was standard on the 15" and 17" models, but has never been available on the 12" model. And somehow, we've survived.
Besides which, for those few who need it, I'd imagine a slot-card for the new MacBook Pro that features FW-800 will be available in the near future.
Yaz.
Firewire 800 never caught on. Those who want it will be able to buy an ExpressCard for it if they really need it. No video out? Funny, you can get DVI/VGA to A/V adapters all over the place, including Apple's own store. Yeah, they really removed all those "vital features". DRM? The only DRM is the one that keeps you from putting OS X on a PC. It doesn't affect the Mac. In short, you're simply a troll. You need to go back under the bridge and stay there.
If you want FW800 get an ExpressCard with it. Have you seen the inside pics of the MacBook? There is *NO* room for any other ports. It's packed full. They dropped the things that the fewest people use. Do people still use AV outs on a notebook? Every projector I've seen in the last several years had DVI/VGA hookups.
I had a PowerBook G4 1Ghz, 1Gig RAM (all graphics set to lowest setting) and would get insane lag in Ironforge around the AH. I couldn't run my epic horse through that area without ending up in the ditch. I now have a MacBookPro, 2.0 Ghz, 2 Gigs RAM and can run around in IF with 0, none, NADA lag and 30-35 FPS. I have all options turned on and the highest resolution the laptop screen can handle. Crusing around WSG is fun as I don't get lagged to death
The MacBookPro is insanely fast. I'm not a big fan of the magnetic power cord, it seems to fall out too often with just a switch in body position. It is quite a bit hotter on my lap and I have had some random crashes while in WoW. Complete computer lock up, power down, restart to get it working again. (CTRL-ALT+Power)
I haven't gone into MC yet but will hopefully go tonight, we are killing domo so that should be some tasty lag.
All in all, I'm extremely happy with my MacBookPro
Now I hope and pray that I will But today I am still, just a bill
I'd like to see FPS of a typical fight through the supression room in Blackwing Lair.
>>oh well the point is that vital features were "removed" from the macbook, and
>>they added in a DRM'ed chipset.
>There's no proof Apple's using any of the DRM, so your point is moot.
This is hilarious. They added the chipset so it wouldn't be used? Wow, that's creative.
why after paying 2600 bucks for a laptop which is supposed to be "sexy" should i then have to get an after market fw800 card that will not only take up the card slot, but add this ugly bulbous protrusion to said macbook and a potential point by which the thing may be accidentally broken or mishandled?
Especially when previous generations had this standard. technology is supposed to evolve, not de-volve. That would be like BMW releasing ther great new model of m3, now with twice the horsepower, but no traction control, no stereo, no ipod control, and no rear view mirrors.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
The kext issue was a misunderstanding blown out of proportion. The ITMS DRM isn't Apple's idea. They have no choice but to add DRM to appease the record companies. If they don't, then no more ITMS because the labels will pull all the songs out. You have Firewire800, but did you actually USE it? I doubt it. If you need FW800, get an ExpressCard for it. You know why? IT NEVER CAUGHT ON. A few hard drive enclosures use it, but beyond that, nada. You're getting worked up over nothing.
Damn! I thought the MacBook Pro was going to be slower than the PowerBook G4...
WHEN HAVE YOU EVER USED FW800??? Jesus, it was a standard that never caught on! A few FW HD enclosures used it, and that was it. Very few people will feel the need to spring for an ExpressCard. God, it just seems to be yet another non-issue that the Apple bashing trolls are assfucking without end...
my friend uses it all the time.
He bought the powerbook for portability, but that doesn't mean he doesnt want space when it's required.
he has 2 lacie super capacity externals which use fw800, and another with fw400. the firewire 800 is leagues better than firewire 400 in throughput, which is important when youre downloading straight to that drive because your audiobooks take up most of the space in your book.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Can anyone confirm if it will also run Windows XP? If I can use this to run Windows at work and OS X at home, I'll be all over one of these machines like hot grits on Natalie Portman.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
I know lots of people (including me) who routinely plug their laptop into the TV to watch a movie they just downloaded.
Those benchmarks are impressive, but I agree, an MC or ZF raid would be a better test.
Now we only need better Blizz performance, at least in Europe. 182ms and rising...
-- Neminem laede, immo omnes, quantum potes, iuva.
Then he can get an ExpressCard and keep it with the drives if bumping it or having an ugly extrusion is an issue.
Judging by your slashdot ID, you must be new here so this must be new for you. (But its true and others have seen this to be the case as well)
maybe they should add the 1cm it would take to make the room? not every innovation requires a reduction in form factor.
btw.. my friend uses express cards for other things, and there are limited slots, he should just abandon whatever else he is doing because apple removed what was standard?
additionally, most people cannot afford a "projection unit". most people have this thing called a tv, which uses coax, component, or svhs.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I'd buy a macbook now (would be a nice upgrade for my 1.25 ghZ mac with 512mb ram) but it seems all too likely that the next rev will include legacy bios support, opening the door for windows and linux. Ommitting it from rev1 was a big miss IMO.
Just to see how well it would run... Cause honestly it's the only thing worth benchmarking for me.
What, do Monster.com and Dice.com have permanent moderation privileges here?
When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
it HAS a FW400 port. it just doesnt do FW800 mode. its a complete mystery why that feature was so hard to add. it certainly wasnt space.
Look, like it or not very few Mac users have ever used the FW800 port. I have both a 12" PowerBook G4 and a PowerMac G5. I have a few FW400 devices, but not a single FW800 device. If I had FW800 on the PowerBook, about the only use it might be put to would be to transfer very large data files between the PB and the PM.
This certainly isn't the first time Apple (or any other laptop maker for that matter) removed ports from their system. I doubt that even 1% of PowerBook owners use their FW800 ports. The majority will live just fine without it in this generation of systems.
Nobody has ever said that the removal of FW800 in the MacBook Pro line is final. It could still make its appearance in the 17" model (or whatever size might replace the 17" model -- as Apple hasn't announced anything yet, I'm not going to assume anything). It may just be a matter of getting Intel to support FW800 in its board controller chipsets used in the new system. Whatever it is, it's hardly the end of the world for most Mac owners.
Yaz.
Should Apple just base their decisions on whether or not it benefits your friend?
Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
yes, he has been a mac user since system 6.
he is at the core of who they are trying to please. He is a power user who wants everything to 'just work' but also wants professonal features from his laptop that the macbook 'pro' will not provide.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
You were probably modded 'troll' because you started on about DRM as if it actually mattered. If you had ended on the point about missing features, you'd probably have been modded up because that's a solid point to make.
yep, i'm an "apple bashing troll", with my ADC premium membership, my dual 2.7 G5, my dual 1.25 g4, my friends who use mac, my school which uses mac, my cousins who use mac. look at my sig for god sakes man before blurting something like that out =/
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Get your laptop out of the boardroom once in a while, okay? :). I use composite and S-Video out all the time, often to play videos and video blogs I've downloaded off the net on my TV.
Of course, I do so using the Apple mini-DVI to Composite/S-Video adapter. I don't need a million-and-one ports built into my PowerBook.
Yaz.
You mean like missing half their bits?
Yonah is a 32-bit Intel processor. No 64-bit extensions.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
A couple people already installed a version of Linux and got it working with a command line (No X Windows). Thought this was posted here a couple days ago. Don't you read Slashdot every 2 minutes like the rest of us?
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
anyone have any numbers on battery life?
3 hours? 5? DVD playing? airport on/off?
because, that's, you know kinda important when it comes to laptops...
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
and it is not a solid point that apple is handing you a pair of shackles and telling you "theyre nice shiny and new, put em on and you won't ever have to walk again!"
i'm sorry but despite my affinity for the fruit, i will not follow them into this territory, and believe its an important point to make.
Dear Apple: Slashdot needs to review 5 of these indefinitely. Thank you XOXO ;) Seriously, i'm waiting for someone to give good benchmarks on these- especially testing for Warcraft. Now that it has a new Universal Binary I can't wait to see how it holds up against a modern windows machine.
'Not only did the new iMac wipe the floor with the old model in their tests, but using MacWorld's own test methodology would allow MacSpeedZone to conclude that the new Intel iMac is almost as fast as a PowerMac Quad G5.' I see only one way to solve this: Give me one. I'll run WoW on it, and decide.
I'm still waiting for the most important benchmark: frames per second in molten core combat.
We get it. You use your Mac for WoW.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Have you ever heard of a soldier's discression? In short, in war a soldier has the discression to determine for himself if an order is in conformity with the laws of war or not, and to refuse that order if he believes they do violate those laws. He may be tried, he may be demoted or sent to prision, but the point is a soldier who excercises this is standing up for his principles and actually having a spine, and anyone who doesnt stand up for their principles, who cowtows to someone more powerful but obviously wrong, does not deserve respect.
Apple is toting the DRM line when they dont have to. They are a serious player in the personal computing market, if they refused to tow the line they could easily break this cycle by pointing out the anticompetitive nature of DRM, but they dont because somewhere along the line they lost their spine.
I love their software, and own their PPC platform proudly, but i have lost a great deal of respect and any compulsion to buy their new systems because of this move and am voicing that in my commentary on this product.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
You mean like missing half their bits?
No, the G4 is a 32-bit processor as well. Remember Apple never released a G5 laptop, and we are talking about laptops here. Had this been about the G5 iMac vs. the Intel iMac, you probably would have had a point though . . .
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum
And whine about moderation and get modded down to oblivion.
You're right -- it's the fact that no controller chipset from Intel supports FW800 that is the reason.
Apple went with Intel-based systems, including the chipset. Intel, so far as I've been able to determine through their website, has FW400 support in their chipsets, but no FW800. Adding a custom FW800 chip to the system would be non-trivial (as it's more than just space to drop in a chip -- you have to be able to connect it to the system bus somehow).
Yaz.
There is something that some of you forget about FW800. FireWire 800 was a mistake to begin with. There is no FireWire chipset that I know of that sits on the PCIe bus. That means, that if FW800 is on the PCI bus, it almost completely saturates the entire bus ITSELF. It was pointless. Until someone comes out with a FW controller that sits on the PCIe bus, FW800 is best left to something like ExressCard 54.
In theory, a FW 800 Express Card should be superior to FW800 built onto the PCI bus.
When the next generation of FW controllers come out that sit on the PCIe bus, then it will make sense. FW800 is just a little to early. Soon.
It is really sad to watch the Mac community desperately keep coming up with these 'see! we were'nt given the boot by IBM. we WANTED to change to x86' benchmark stories.
I don't know what the hell you guys are going to be like when Apple dumps the x86 hardware and goes software only. Don't act surprised, you know it's coming...
... no firewire 800 for one thing ...
Thank you Apple. I prefer not paying for things I do not need, SCSI in the old days, FW800 today. The few pros who need it can add it.
Oh don't worry, you are still paying for it. You just aren't getting it.
DRM also prevent a future OSX release from being used on an older Mac. But then again Apple has been doing this for a while. My iMac can no longer run Tiger.
and it is not a solid point that apple is handing you a pair of shackles and telling you "theyre nice shiny and new, put em on and you won't ever have to walk again!"
No, it is not a solid point, it is either (1) a troll or (2) simply gross ignorance. The later warrants -1 as well. The DRM doesn't do jack-sh*t when running Mac OS X on a machine that it supports, Intel based Macs. It is there to prevent Mac OS X from running on generic PC hardware. A reasonable thing for Apple to do.
You're only proving plasmacutter's point about Apple zealots and DRM. DRM does matter. It matters because DRM tells us what we can and cannot do with the software/media that we bought. It matters because we, as in the user, have to give up control of our computers and files when we accept DRM. It matters because if nothing changes within the next few years, we're all going to be using locked down computers. I have lusted for Macs since OS X was released years ago, but since the Intel switch and Apple's stance with DRM, I have lost much of my enthusiasm with Macs and Apple in general. I don't want to buy a machine with TPM chips that may be used for much more evil purposes (such as locking down my media). I want to buy a machine that does what I, the customer wants, not what Apple or Microsoft or the **AA wants. Thankfully I can still buy and build some computers that aren't DRM-encumbered.
DRM matters. That's the bottom line. And I, for one, am not going to give up my freedoms, even for "ease of use" and other minor benefits. Nobody should tell me what I can do with my media, or with a certain OS (points at Apple and OS X), but that's why I don't use that stuff anyway; I prefer to be free instead.
Oh don't worry, you are still paying for it. You just aren't getting it.
Doubtful, the Intel Macs would probably be a little more expensive if they had FW800 support. Assuming that it is even an option. I'm not sure who is manufacturing Apple's motherboards but I'm not sure if Intel manufactured boards ever got to FW800.
Funny, people agree with you and mod you up and you're okay with it, people disagree with you and mod you down, and suddenly it's an Apple conspiracy. Get over it.
"Sufferin' succotash."
What makes you think that Apple (or some Mac software development companies) won't extend the use of that TPM chip to do some other things, such as restrict what type of media you can listen to and watch, lock down your documents so that way they can only be opened with a proprietary document reader that costs $$$, prevent you from doing anything that is "unsupported," etc.? The chip is already inside. Why not extend it to its fullest potential? Plus, the RIAA and MPAA comes up with new tricks every minute; Microsoft, Intel, and even AMD have bought into Trusted Computing; and this year has started the development of computers with those chips.
The AC's point is a valid point. Why would anybody who wants the maximum functionality of their computers want to support DRM of any shape or form? I used to love Apple up until the day that Jobs announced the switch to the x86 platform. The switch just shows that Apple isn't the benevolent, "never-do-any-wrong" company that many people thought that it is. Apple is the silent introducer and proponent of DRM. They don't (and won't) immediately start out with draconian restrictions, they'll just implement it slowly, and people won't notice it until everything is DRM'd.
I hate DRM and I hate trusted computing even more. I refuse to purchase any products that support DRM and trusted computing (and, no, I will not pirate them, either). I'll stick with my open hardware and FOSS software, thank you.
That's not DRM. That's dropping support for older models because eventually the cost of keeping drivers up-to-date for old hardware surpasses the goodwill Apple generates by letting you run a fresh new OS you won't be buying anyway on an ancient computer you're clearly not spending money on.
AFAIK, you can't. The cardbus slot that is necessary for FW800 is larger than the one provided on the MacBook. (For now - a smaller card will undoubtably come out.)
Do people still use AV outs on a notebook? Every projector I've seen in the last several years had DVI/VGA hookups.
Are you joking? Every living room I've seen in the last several years has been lacking an LCD projector. Frankly if the MacBook didn't do S-Video/Composite out (and it does), that would have been a dealbreaker for me personally.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
nobody cares about your gay warcraft crap
That would be DRM. Because it is restricting what I can do with my computer. Right now I can install Tiger on my iMac by editting one line in the install file. In the future I no longer can do that if Apple restricts it with DRM.
Macworld unscientific test (dvd playing) put the g4 at 4 minutes longer battery than the mac book pro.
k firstlook/index.php
They also have some benchmarks
http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/firstlooks/macboo
I suspect batterlife will varry depending if your running a native intel app vs a rosetta interpreted (ppc) app.
That's not the core of who they are trying to please. They're trying to please the people who have no clue what they are doing on a computer, but know they want one. Meaning 99.99% of the population, which in turn means the majority of the CASH. That is what Apple wants, and that is who they are trying to please. If they have to piss off all 10 mac users who NEED FW800 to get the millions who do not, I say good for them. You're silly to think they give a rats ass more about the "power users." "Power user" where I come from means "jackass know-it-all who drives up support costs." Again, it's all about the money, and the money is in the masses, not the niche. Apple is living in the niche, they are trying to attract the masses. iPod, Mac Mini, etc - it's all baby steps. Moving to Intel for higher yield/production capacity, maybe some more consumer trust (they KNOW Intel), again baby steps. They are working on converting the masses, not the FW800 freaks that will still buy a mac for their next computer regardless of whining like stuck pigs about the lack of the port, wanting 1cm size increases, etc.
Well, you're a moron if you think you got modded "Troll" because you pointed out that Apple had removed FW800 and SVGA outputs (woo, surprise! News to everyone but you, and they're mad about it, and taking it out on you! NOT). What you got modded "Troll" for was saying stupid shit like "DRM nullifies all benchmarks," which is a deliberately inflammatory OPINION. It is by no means a fact, nor can it be called "truth" in any conventional sense of the word. It's your contentious phrasing and attitude that got you that mod. It's phrasing that was clearly designed to inflame and annoy. That, dear friend, is called trolling.
In other words, you weren't downmodded for speaking truth, you were downmodded for trolling. See, that's how it works. You troll, you get modded troll, you whine about being modded troll. When you've been here (on Slashdot, on the Earth, and out of your parents' basement) a bit longer, you'll be able to recognize this stuff when you see it, and you'll get better and more subtle at doing it yourself. Till then, you may expect your lame and unsophisticated attempts at annoying others to be met with ridicule and disapproval. I suggest that you don't comment until you get smarter. HAND.
I also performed some MacBook Pro benchmarks on the MacBook Pros introduced at Macworld and my results may be of interest. While the report only includes a 1.83 GHz MacBook Pro, it does include comparisons to G4 PowerBooks and a Dual G5 PowerMac.
MacBook Pro Performance Analysis
Check out BARTsmart BART Widget, the best BART schedule widget for Mac OS X.
What makes you think that Apple (or some Mac software development companies) won't extend the use of that TPM chip to do some other things, such as restrict what type of media you can listen to and watch, lock down your documents so that way they can only be opened with a proprietary document reader that costs $$$, prevent you from doing anything that is "unsupported," etc.?
;-)
What make me think Apple won't do this? Well, mostly it's the fact that I don't have aluminum foil wrapped tightly around my head.
Here is the link
http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/vmware/
That's a rather poor analogy. There's nothing illegal about DRM and Fairplay isn't exactly immoral. Neither is Apple a big enough company to boss the record companies around. If they'd said no to DRM, they wouldn't be selling music, simple as that.
Just because you can instal it, doesn't mean that it's going to work right. It's not DRM, it's dropping support. Your rights aren't being managed.
We are talking about future macs and future support. The poster above stated DRM is there so only OSX wouldn't be installed on non Apple hardware. However I postulated a theory that along with shutting out installations on PCs, Apple is also likely shut down installations on Macs they no longer want to support.
Utter bullshit! The record industry would LOVE to see all online music downloads die out. Then they wouldn't have to worry about becoming obsolete. Everyone buy CDs again so we can fix the price! Apple doesn't have anywhere near enough clout to bend the record industry to their own will. As it stands, they've got what is probably the least restrictive DRM of any music store with a major label catalogue. The record industry would pull Apple's license in a heartbeat if the DRM was removed from the ITMS tracks.
yep..
-denying firms and OSS projects the right to adequately compete by restricting my ability to shift music/movies to a format of my choosing is not at all a violation of fair trade and antitrust laws
-treating me like a criminal by denying me my right to govern my own personal property by invading my machine with a super-root presence is not at all immoral
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
So I see. However, the sig could just as easily make you out to be a Linux zealot too, ya know.
And two Lacie external drives don't qualify as hideous extensions when attached to a notebook? That combination sounds less than portable...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
ok.. so they won't be selling music.. and the soldier in this analogy won't be a leutenent anymore, or won't be honorably discharged, but he stood up for his principles and will be a better man for it, and maybe in the process saved the lives of innocent kosovars or vietnamese civiliians.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Under logic, a video game whose installer won't run on a system with anything less than a GeForce FX-series card is "DRMed".
DRM has to do with enforcing copyright protections. Apple didn't drop support for older machine models because of copyright; they did it because it's a pain in the ass to support them.
You're only proving plasmacutter's point about Apple zealots and DRM. DRM does matter. It matters because DRM tells us what we can and cannot do with the software/media that we bought. It matters because we, as in the user, have to give up control of our computers and files when we accept DRM. It matters because if nothing changes within the next few years, we're all going to be using locked down computers. I have lusted for Macs since OS X was released years ago, but since the Intel switch and Apple's stance with DRM, I have lost much of my enthusiasm with Macs and Apple in general. I don't want to buy a machine with TPM chips that may be used for much more evil purposes (such as locking down my media). I want to buy a machine that does what I, the customer wants, not what Apple or Microsoft or the **AA wants. Thankfully I can still buy and build some computers that aren't DRM-encumbered.
That's all very nice, but the post I replied to was about why plasmacutter was modded down. It's obvious that it's the bit about the DRM that got him modded down, not his other points which would probably not be modded down if they stood alone.
I think the whole DRM issue is unimportant right now. You think its critical. That's fine - we disagree. But you don't have to go on and on about how you can never buy a Mac now or how Apple somehow abused a trust or whatever.
But the bit that gets my goat is the way you drop the word 'zealot' in there, and then start frothing at the mouth about DRM. Clearly I can accept Apple has faults (and yes - it's not my bestest friend ever!). You seem unable to accept any other points of view about DRM.
There's a zealot here, but it's not I.
more like people disagree with objective facts, not me, because they are established facts, and instead of modding me "redundant" or "overrated" mod me "troll", as if i'm parading out absurdities.
Their moderation is unfair and an overreactive product of their bias towards apple. It's always my first impulse as a mac user, but i learn to surpress it, they obviously do not.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
WOW plays poorly on G4 Macs because they have outdated graphics cards compared to gamer PCs.
A 2003 Dual 2 GHz G5 will play WOW poorly if you have a vanilla video card, but not because of the G5. In fact, if you watch processor use while the game is "challenged," you'll notice that with dual G5s, the CPUs are running about 60%. Turn one off and the processor redlines, but the gameplay doesn't change drastically. Put in a higher end PCI card, and it plays like a totally different machine.
The last revision of G5 Macs have PCIe, and better video cards. The Intel Macs have the same stuff or better. It's no surprise that WOW plays better with a much better video card.
The G5/Core Duo are not being compared when you pit them against each other playing WOW; it's pretty much just the video card difference.
"yep, i'm an 'apple bashing troll'" We agree. The good news is, now that you've admitted your problem, you can move on to solving it.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
No? Then shut the fuck up.
I consent to that treatment, and have every right to remove my cash from the bank's control at any time I please.
That is the difference between the bank and DRM.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Kind of defeats the purpose of buying Mac, though, if you have to run Linux to do it. You can't have your Windows stuff running alongside your iLife etc. People want to run XP alongside Mac OS X, not Linux. If they wanted to do it this way, they'd buy a new CoreDuo notebook from someone else and save themselves about $2,000 in Apple Taxes.
I hope you realize that Apple has successfully negotiated with the RIAA to lessen their Fairplay restrictions. Twice, iirc. They don't care what you do with your machine as long as you keep buying them.
After all, I am strangely colored.
The ignorance of the drm really scares me. It makes clear that the silent tactic of introducing socalled trusted computing step by step actually works. I really would like to love Apple and get one of the MacBookPros but no way I spend money on this. People, take care, but maybe its to late already. What do you need to wake up? How about 'trusted' harddisk? https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/groups/stora ge/Storage_Use_Case_Whitepaper_v07.pdf
I did my research of DRM many months ago and read various viewpoints about it. After thoroughly researching it, my conclusion is that I don't like DRM at all. My problem with DRM isn't the DRM technologies itself; it's its tie-in with the DMCA and other laws (buying out Congress, extending copyright, etc.), trusted computing, and the content providers' and software developers' push to eliminate fair use.
I'm not a zealot; I am just rationally opposed to DRM. I just get very pissed off when the majority of Apple supporters go from anti-DRM to pro-DRM just because Apple is doing it, as if Apple can never do anything wrong. Or worse, when those same Apple DRM supporters bash Microsoft and the MPAA/RIAA because of DRM. Still, I don't trust DRM and TPM chips at all, and I don't trust anything that cannot be legally cracked and figured out.
Sign me up for his ISP if he's able to download at faster than 400mbps (minus overhead).
I'm hoping VMware will develop a version of Workstation for OS X now that the processors are x86. That'd be pure bliss.
Here's a chipset system diagram for the chipset the MacBook Pro is apparently using:
I'll assume Apple currently uses the 4-6 PCIe x1 lanes for AirPort, Gb ethernet, and ExpressCard (2 lanes). If Apple is using the 6-lane version, that should leave two extra x1 lanes for stuff like FireWire.TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Damn, I was about to post that link!
Once those guys distribute what they've done, then all intrepid Intel Mac users need is the torrent and an XP cd to have a fast working (if not trivial to set up) copy of the evil on their otherwise tasty machines.
Next up: Vista.
Benchmarks are useless, and this one doubly so. One great thing about the Mac is that it does lots of stuff OUTSIDE the processor. My 1.42Ghz PPC iBook is dog slow compared to new PCs, if all you're measuring is CPU speed, and it's video card is an embarrassing "mobility" chipset. Yet it's smooth and responsive even in the middle of a lengthy compile with multiple applications open and running.
Benchmarks measure the edges of the envelope where users rarely visit. If you're not doing serious number crunching or running last week's must-have video game, you don't need to worry about benchmarks. It's like worrying about the top speed of an Italian Sports car, when you're never going to drive it faster than 100 Kph. In other words, if you're content with the size of your penis you can safely ignore benchmarks.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I agree entirely. WHat's really needed is VMware or QEMU hosted on Mac OSX, or "Vitual PC" to be available. This will happen in time. But or some reason many people seem to really think they want to dual boot and run either OSX or Win XP. Lots of people in this camp. One example is the guy who posted to origenal comment here. We says he is 100% MS Windows at work but at home he is 100% Mac. He does not need to mix. As for myself, I'm comming to the Apple Mac as a long time UNIX/Linux user. (I've never had a use for MS Windows.) and I find the Mac does everytrhing the my Solaris and Linux system do but adds a nice desktop UI.
I'm in MC right now, and the joke is getting old to me. I can only imagine what it must be like for the people who don't play. You like WoW, we get it, now shut up about it.
Game... blouses.
It's just running from the damn AH to the mailbox in Ironforge that sucks, falling off the bridge and having to run around to get back sucks. 256MB, video card and 1GB memory standard (on the bigger model) should help this out
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Well, you're sort of right.
FireWire 800 has caught in pretty well for great big/nonportable hard drives. It's been tough to find a small portable hard drive with FireWire 800.
I recently dropped an external hard drive that I used to carry stuff between work and home. Needless to say, it didn't work after I picked it up (hooray for backups). Since my machine at work is an older G4 without FireWire 800 but my computer at home has FireWire 800, I went looking for a hard drive with FireWire 400 & 800 that would be reasonable to carry between work and home.
No dice. The ones that support FireWire 400 & 800 were too big. The ones that were the right size supported FireWire 400 & USB 2.0. Portable hard drives with FireWire 800 were just starting to come on the market when Apple dropped it.
I agree with the poster. When I buy a Professional Macintosh, I don't expect to be nickel and dimed and have to go out and buy a bunch of necessary pieces separately. If I wanted to do that, I'd go buy a Dell at half-price.
Well, since none of those have anything to do with the thread topic, namely the possible effect of piracy worries on Apple's open source efforts, no, they're not convincing. There is no evidence whatsoever that there are any DRM hooks in the Darwin kernel. The are .kexts which hook into EFI, but not into the DRM chips. So, all of our examples are about the iTMS, not the OS itself. In fact, all of the things you mentioned are in the OS installed on your, and my, G5. If you can think of a way Apple can sell copyrighted works without some kind of DRM, I'm all ears.
The first Powerbook with Firewire 800 was introduced in April, 2004, late in the machine's life. Now, I'm not happy about the exclusion of Firewire 800 from the MacBooks, but I am going to wait and see what the rest of the Intel-powered line looks like before drawing any real conclusions.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
There is a benchmark that shows a dual core processor is faster than a single core processor that is 3 years older?
This nonsense is why jobs are being outsourced... in the name of common sense.
"And I, for one, am not going to give up my freedoms, even for "ease of use" and other minor benefits."
Those benefits help the vast majority of computer users. You do realize you represent the vast minority here, right? Most people that own a computer couldn't care less about being able to hack Windows to run on the Mac they just bought so they didn't have to run Windows on it. They don't want to hack EFI, they couldn't tell you what Linux is, and quite frankly are scared to "tool around" anyway, even in the good, inquisitive way so that they at least learn a little about their machine.
They want ease of use, seamless integration with the other apps they use, less viruses, spyware, adware, and complete, one-stop support for hardware and software used, a place to go when you are having issues (to talk to someone... face to face... for free quick fixes, free usage classes, and one-on-one consultation if wanted). Apple has those things. All under one roof which matters a great deal to the vast majority.
I'm sorry, but in the end DRM won't matter enough.
Macworld unscientific test (dvd playing) put the g4 at 4 minutes longer battery than the mac book pro.
Except that the G4 they tested against was used. Battery life changes over time.. testing a brand new laptop against a 1 year old laptop is useless.
I just got the Macbook 2ghz. its interesting looking at the benchmarks. i'll just say this: this is the fastest computer i have every used, mac or pc.
- Java runs fast (Intellij IDEA) - blows away my computer at work
- Safari is blazing - the contrast is like when i was going from 56k modem to a dsl line in 1997
- CItrix Client using MS Remote Desktop (to remotely log into work) is fast (i think under rosetta too)
- DeerPark (alpha Firefox Universal Bin) is fast, but occasionally hiccups.
- boot time is insane
- magsafe - seems pretty strong, and its actually hard to pull out normally, but easy to pull out with a quick motion.
Feel free to wait for revision 2, or whatever, but so far (3 whole days!) this machine is solid.
Assuming the rumor is true that Microsoft uses the TPM keys in conjection with Apple and Dell to prevent teh Vista beta's from operating.
The particular ID for the key has to be trusted for the drm to work. Kind of scary if you ask me and I would be quite pissed if I bought the new mac wanting to buy windows only to have a single line of code use the built in drm to prevent me from using my machine to full potential
http://saveie6.com/
Aw, shit: ignore the part about "the possible effect of piracy worries on Apple's open source efforts". Got my threads all mixed up.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
No, the G4 is a 32-bit processor as well. Remember Apple never released a G5 laptop, and we are talking about laptops here. Had this been about the G5 iMac vs. the Intel iMac, you probably would have had a point though . . .
It may still of been a mistake for Apple to release 32bit x86 machines, as Apple (and people who make software for Apples) are going to have to support 32bit x86 for years to come, along with 32bit PPC, 64bit PPC, and 64bit x86. My guess is that the 32bit x86 Apple machines are going to be relatively short lived, thus Apple could of skipped having to support that particular platform just by waiting a little longer. As another bonus, if the only version of OSX-x86 out there was 64bit, they would of effectively locked out many generic PCs from running it just from the simple fact that most generic PCs are still 32bit.
Damn communists.
Dual-booting would work much better for games, which don't generally run as well inside a virtual environment like VMWare or VirtualPC.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Actually, the most fun is watching Apple fanboys go from "Firewire rules and USB2 sucks!" to "Who the hell uses Firewire?" because Apple decided not to include FireWire 800 on their newest laptop.
There is a big difference between letting you install something on older hardware with no support, and coming up with artifical restrictions to keep people from installing it on older hardware. Right now Apple seems to like to do stuff like "Oh, no FireWire ports? Then no 10.4 for you!" It's not hard to imagine them using the DRM to do the exact same thing.
My guess is that the 32bit x86 Apple machines are going to be relatively short lived, thus Apple could of skipped having to support that particular platform just by waiting a little longer. As another bonus, if the only version of OSX-x86 out there was 64bit, they would of effectively locked out many generic PCs from running it just from the simple fact that most generic PCs are still 32bit.
My guess is that they went all 32-bit because Tiger was all 32-bit, with certain parts in 64-bit as well.
It may not have been feasible to transition to Intel, then transition to full 64-bit in time for the change. Besides Intel's 64-bit offerings just aren't up to snuff.
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum
No dice. The ones that support FireWire 400 & 800 were too big. The ones that were the right size supported FireWire 400 & USB 2.0. Portable hard drives with FireWire 800 were just starting to come on the market when Apple dropped it.
FYI, if a drive supports FW800, it will also work with FW400 if you have an adapter; FW800 is backwards-compatible but uses a different connector (which is a big reason why nobody wants to use it).
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Battery life changes over time.. testing a brand new laptop against a 1 year old laptop is useless.,
Which is exactly why people shouldn't complain to much about lack of published battery life estimates. As long as it's not really bad or really good, it's really unimportant.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
Yes, Linux is better than Apple, I'd pick Linux in a heartbeat, except I don't because it sucks!
Shame on you, you closet Apple fanboy! Yeah, I see through you, you yellow-bellied ninny. I fart in your general direction!
You know, nobody is forcing you to use iTunes. So there!
/i refer you to this line:
DRM also prevent a future OSX release from being used on an older Mac.
DRM for music is not illegal. I certainly haven't seen Apple hauled into court over it. Or anyone else using DRM for music. You do know that you can burn it to CD and re-rip it, don't you? Syure, you lose a bit of quality, but not much. And there's nothing preventing you from moving music encoded yourself. OSS projects ahve no right to be able to play music Apple sells through the iTMS.
Are you posting from a jail cell?/p>
You confuse Apple with Sony.
If you want FW800 get an ExpressCard with it.
sure
if you prove to me that one exists!
People are parsing my sentence wrong or more likely I wasn't more clear. The original comment I was commenting was this. The only DRM is the one that keeps you from putting OS X on a PC. My comment is, Apple can also use DRM also to prevent OS X from being installed on a older Mac. Meaning a Mac that is sold today is an older mac in two or three years. The MacBook Pro has DRM in a few years Apple will want to stop support. This DRM in the future can be used to lock out future releases of OS X. Apple in the past has prevented people from installing an OS that was otherwise compatible because they didn't want to offer support or they wanted to sell more Macs. In the future I can see Apple using DRM to enforce this.
T60's. Whatever you do with it after you get it is up to you. Load up whatever you were wanting, even if you wanted OSX86 up and running.
With it's non-integrated graphics (ATI X1400/FireGL V5200), Molten Core ought to be a walk in the park. As for the *book Pro, the Intel GMA 900 isnt what it's cracked up to be and isnt the kind of thing you would wish anyone to have.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I read somewhere that the yonah actually had 64-bit extensions, but intel didnt advertise it. and there was the whole discussion about it being strange that intel would advertise it.. google it perhaps
Firewire400 is still faster than USB 2 when benchmarked for file access.
I have a couple of drives hooked up to my G5 with Firewire(400). Th drives have USB2 interfaces as well.
I don't see the big deal about Firewire800. Unless you're running Firewire in a RAID configuration I doubt the difference is enough to warrant it for most users.
As for Firewire800 on a laptop... huh? that's what, 2% of users? And this MacBook Pro isn't even the top of the line product model... ok, it is for the moment, but we all know Apple will be releasing a higher end model as this was targeted at their mid-range power-user.
Apple has to at least maintain some image of trying to do something against the people who can break DRM, or the RIAA will pull the licensing. Which would be bad for all involved.
I hate DRM, don't get me wrong; I really, really want to share quite a few of my songs that I purchased legally from iTunes with friends. But the iTunes Music Store is perfectly reasonable in every other way; $.99 is essentially what you pay per song on a CD anyway (though some are worth considerably less), and I've found songs that I know I would not be able to find anywhere else except at Eide's CD music store (thank God for that place, I love it). If Apple could possibly charge a premium (say two quarters or so) to get an unmanaged, unrestricted copy of the song, I get the feeling they'd make a lot more money.
I know I'd buy it.
I like the reference, its a good way to show FPS. =)