Chernobyl was all about location. It was placed in an area where two earth-plates collides. They didn't consider this when using an existing design, but they should probably never have build it there. No nuclear reactors are really safe, even the very modern ones in Sweden and Germany have some errors regulary (which worries the neighbor-countries a bit).
keithp will surely be involved in this project, just as the other ones, XFree86 (look at the open discussion mailing lists) and Cairo (his nice vector/PDF-project). Keith Packard has done much good for X, testing it, trying to make a good rendering-system and much more, but it doesn't mean that he can't play along on more horses at the time.
Open Source is not about marketing and markets at all. In time people will choose OSS because of the features and the larger insight you can get in the development of it. Looking at users as "sheeps" is what marketing departments have been doing for generations, but OSS have actually changed this behavior. Letting the users involve in the design process, either by sending requests, patches or by showing the progress on the homepage is what gives users hope. When I used windows years ago, the only thing you could do is wait. The Internet gives me the choice to look at a project's internal discussion (where available), respond to it (influence it) and seeing it being implemented (or not) through a bug-system or CVS. Just being a user is not enough anymore, the XFree86 team learned that lesson.
the idea of Xouvert is to be the bleeding edge of X. I see it as a kind of forum for many ideas to be implemented. Another group (maybe XFree86) could then fix the bugs and release usual stable releases.
I have seen that several linux distributions already have made a simular approach. When I had to set up SuSE for a friend of mine, yast2 automatically found the card and the best resolution for it. It is a shame that SuSE (and other distributions) don't share this approach with XFree86 or others, but the reason is that it is their advantage on the linux-market. If Xouvert succeeds and GPL that code, the users wins and the distributions needs to find even better reasons to choose their version (again more gain for users).
I get you all-right, you said the page *looks like it is advocating socialism*. But I believe that words like anti-american is used by fundamentalistic conservative groups around the world (well, probably not anti-AMERICAN, but simular), and these are not in the target-group of this homepage or the foundation. While I agree that these people could use it as an argument for OSS is communism, I would believe that many people would see it as political thinking. It will harm Microsoft And Friends more than OSS on the long run.
That is why I said *I doubt* it would happen, but it looks like it is their plan at the moment.
When I look at your comment, remember that most users don't know what Apache/*nix is, AOL is big in Germany and UK and Microsoft is trying (un-successful again) to let the cellphone-companies use their network. Off course I think that their plan will not succeed, and OSS will pervail whatever if it is Linux or HURD that is running on future desktops, but I see so many people that is still praising Microsoft, because they don't know better (like I heard a guy in a department say: "Why are we still running Windows 2000, Windows XP is sooo better" not a smart guy, but that is not the point).
Red and black color, a threatening arm and the words "OSN Army of Friends" is just a way of style. I doubt that everyone that runs around with Fidel Castro on their t-shirts are radical socialists. It is a form of provocation, and it appearently worked on you and btw it is also the same color as on Redhat's frontpage. Going as far to say Redhat is advocating socialism would be helping those who believe these symbols are 0wn3d by socialist groups. Remember that the target-group are people that are pissed off of the FUD from SCO(C), Microsoft(C) among other j3rks(C), and an agressive homepage looks in order.
1. Microsoft denies that the Internet is of interest of the average user.
2. Microsoft "creates" Internet Explorer to compete with Netscape.
3. Microsoft buys the popular Hotmail among other popular portals on the Internet.
4. Microsoft extends its "MSN" to the Internet (and television).
5. Microsoft develops MSN Explorer.
* 6. Microsoft stops development of IE and Outlook.
7. Microsoft.NET will function perfectly with new MS Network servers.
8. Microsoft Windows Bloat2005 is delivered without TCP/IP. You can now login to the MS Network without the use of Internet.
9.... (more marketing)
10. Microsoft users have forgotten that there was something called "The Internet". "I just login to the MS Network, its easier to use, like I read/saw somewhere", a local user said, "I hope we will implement it at our work, because of communcation with my home, telephone is sooo old-fashioned".
That is their strategy... I doubt that it will succeed, since we have so great governments around the world, not allowing this?!?!
real (wo)men don't need backups, especially thinking of OSS, mirrors is all what we need. I think it was Linus how said something simular many years ago.
"funny" to see that when SCO started the whole thing, investors believed them, but since IBM, RedHat among others (e.g. Germany) responded it has been a bear-ride *yeeehaa!!*
I agree on this point. Linux has its power in that it does *need* a business solution to survive. It was created by individuals who are interested in a fun project. Everyone is allowed to fork it, also Microsoft, eventhough I doubt it will happen within the next five years (the l33t windoze users I know are strong against *nixes (main argument: it is obsolete), and these are Microsofts "soldiers").
Linux and Open Source will pervail, when all companies start helping the developments. If they start a new project on their own (which is already happening) without a free and transparent development, the users will be sceptical about the company's intention and try to seek an alternative. Open Source is about alternatives to those companies, like Open Office (despite their current situation, the development is a lot faster than MS Office) is an alternative to MS Office.
What this case with SCO does is not only to show businesses that Linux and open source exists, how the freedom is perceived, it also hits the "common" users at home, when they look at some news on news.com.com, cnn.com, NYT, LAT and other popular news-sources around the world. But of course this is nothing like local implementations (my dad, an old MS-prayer, hear about people using Linux around, and hopes that it is much better than these marketing-developed winXP and winME he hates so much, he even think Bill Gates is nothing more than a hoax).
I have played computer-games since I got my Commodore 64, then Amiga 500 and for now the PC-generation. My favorite games on the Amiga was "North and South" and "A-train", which I enjoyed to play for a very long period. I actually just remembered how much I loved those games, when I installed UAE on my Gentoo yesterday and seing them in action again (I own the games, but was to lazy to convert them, so I downloaded them). A-train has still one of the best simulations for train and economy, eventhough it looks so simple (but it is quite hard to succeed). North And South may look like a Risk ripoff, but the graphics sure are fun. The same counts for Civilization, which I believe still have the best graphics (Inventions, starting a town, riots), eventhough Civ2 had better units-graphics (but the rest sucked, Elvis, please!).
Back on the topic: I believe that these projects can only exist if the companies give the license free and other people can develop on them further (I would like to see a A-train 2, but don't tell Maxis *ahem* EA/Maxis, they are more interested in "realism" than fun graphics).
Many game companies believe that the only solution to develop further on their games is to make them 3D. Look at Railroad Tycoon 3 in planning, Simcity 4, CC:Generals. These games maybe *look* good but the gameplay really gets deprecated when your computer has to simulate all the 3D-graphics, and you feel it isn't more to it.
OK, I am getting a bit tired of those melodramatic people writing issues with OSS that was happening at least some years ago. Unless you are building the whole thing from bottom up, every other distribution have automated setup of X. I used Gentoo for a year now, and setting X up is fscking easy, even with a NVIDIA-card, just read the documentation (that is written to be read fast).
1. While we can all agree on lacking time in our life, maybe you should look at your priorities.
2. I can accept that XFree is developed slowly, but not so slow that nobody are using it. The reason thing that happen was that a developer left and created a forum for ideas to X. I think it is monitored by the XFree86 team, and it is really THAT was missing in their project (open forums).
well, it is obviously funny, but the difference between Apple doing it and Microsoft doing it is that Microsoft is in a near-monopoly situation, and has minimal rights to take use of competitor measurements (I sound like a suit!). While there already were two major competitors on the market, Real and Apple QT, Microsoft went in with its own format, and since the Microsoft platform comes with this option in the installation (and most pre-installs have everything installed, at least the home users) the other two have to be downloaded first (and maybe even be acknowledged for their existence). Remember that Microsoft controls the market for people that don't know better.
I am getting a bit tired of comparing Photoshop with GIMP. GIMP Is Mot Photoshop (well, nice try at least:). When you would search for jobs as a graphic designer, you would see that they require that you can use Photoshop (among other adobe programs). You won't see that with GIMP for some years, so yes it is THE standard (you won't find many Macs without running several Adobe applications).
Before I learned to use Photoshop, which was a requirement of my study, I used the GIMP for the homepages I designed. The handling has always been somewhat weird but I don't complain, because I get it for free. If I was in the mood of complaining, I could start a GUI fork of the project, if it didn't work out talking with the developers. When I learned Photoshop, I also found many things weird in the beginning, but it wouldn't continue to annoy me that much as the GIMP GUI does. But when I take a look at GIMP's Developer Page I see a lot of progress happening (docks, CMYK, better (not perfect) text-tool).
yes, this raises an interesting question about the article of "what computer experience did they have?". I think some of their findings for Windows XP is based on that the users have had prior knowledge. I am not thinking of that they have been using a prior version of the systems, but that they would have been influenced by social or commercial means. If they put a 50 years woman in a test-situation, which told the conductors that she has never used windows before, it doesn't mean that colleguages, husband, children and friends haven't talked (just 1 minute does it) about using a computer and how they just -dreamed- about updating it to this -marvelous- new Windows XP that will give you a l33t feeling (I hear even 40-years old people talk about this all the time, not l33t but very simular).
I think this is very true, but it is also happening on the windows-platform. In my study as an usability designer, we worked in projects with engineers and programmers. Their choice of usability on computers was Windows, because that was the only thing they knew about. But when they should arrange the buttons, bars, text-boxes and so on, they failed badly. The funny part of this was that they were to learn usability at our study, but because they thought they were superior in knowledge about technology, they thought THEY were to learn US how things should be done (and it didn't get better when we started to work with the industry).
But as you said, this is not true for all programmers / engineers.
so true... last day I was pressing CTRL+ALT+1 at lot of times, and getting really anoyed. I was watching a homepage about a cool linux app that was developed, and wanted to go into console to emerge it... until I noticed that I had booted into windows 2000 *grin* I mean, when you are on the Internet, and a bit sleepy, it doesn't really matter if you are using Konqueror or IE, they show the same rendered picture of a homepage.
smells like a cheap-scate version of their original plans, but then again it could let them to be more familiar with Linux and thereby be prepared to create their own distribution later on (and discard their own *nixes).
Slashdot Mirror
This is how SCO wants us to see the GPL.
Chernobyl was all about location. It was placed in an area where two earth-plates collides. They didn't consider this when using an existing design, but they should probably never have build it there. No nuclear reactors are really safe, even the very modern ones in Sweden and Germany have some errors regulary (which worries the neighbor-countries a bit).
It is not WordPerfect. From this document on OO's homepage (search for wps), StarOffice and OpenOffice is considering this for new features.
These are trying to make a difference:
Directfb, Cairo , Fresco and PicoGUI
The discussion about framebuffering was on the XFree86 open discussion mailing list last month.
keithp will surely be involved in this project, just as the other ones, XFree86 (look at the open discussion mailing lists) and Cairo (his nice vector/PDF-project). Keith Packard has done much good for X, testing it, trying to make a good rendering-system and much more, but it doesn't mean that he can't play along on more horses at the time.
Open Source is not about marketing and markets at all. In time people will choose OSS because of the features and the larger insight you can get in the development of it. Looking at users as "sheeps" is what marketing departments have been doing for generations, but OSS have actually changed this behavior. Letting the users involve in the design process, either by sending requests, patches or by showing the progress on the homepage is what gives users hope. When I used windows years ago, the only thing you could do is wait. The Internet gives me the choice to look at a project's internal discussion (where available), respond to it (influence it) and seeing it being implemented (or not) through a bug-system or CVS. Just being a user is not enough anymore, the XFree86 team learned that lesson.
the idea of Xouvert is to be the bleeding edge of X. I see it as a kind of forum for many ideas to be implemented. Another group (maybe XFree86) could then fix the bugs and release usual stable releases.
I have seen that several linux distributions already have made a simular approach. When I had to set up SuSE for a friend of mine, yast2 automatically found the card and the best resolution for it. It is a shame that SuSE (and other distributions) don't share this approach with XFree86 or others, but the reason is that it is their advantage on the linux-market. If Xouvert succeeds and GPL that code, the users wins and the distributions needs to find even better reasons to choose their version (again more gain for users).
I get you all-right, you said the page *looks like it is advocating socialism*. But I believe that words like anti-american is used by fundamentalistic conservative groups around the world (well, probably not anti-AMERICAN, but simular), and these are not in the target-group of this homepage or the foundation. While I agree that these people could use it as an argument for OSS is communism, I would believe that many people would see it as political thinking. It will harm Microsoft And Friends more than OSS on the long run.
yep, it seems to work every time
Please mod me down since this is clearly a redudant post! h3ll, I will do it myself! oh wait, is it posible to get your own post as a meta-moderator?
That is why I said *I doubt* it would happen, but it looks like it is their plan at the moment.
When I look at your comment, remember that most users don't know what Apache/*nix is, AOL is big in Germany and UK and Microsoft is trying (un-successful again) to let the cellphone-companies use their network. Off course I think that their plan will not succeed, and OSS will pervail whatever if it is Linux or HURD that is running on future desktops, but I see so many people that is still praising Microsoft, because they don't know better (like I heard a guy in a department say: "Why are we still running Windows 2000, Windows XP is sooo better" not a smart guy, but that is not the point).
Red and black color, a threatening arm and the words "OSN Army of Friends" is just a way of style. I doubt that everyone that runs around with Fidel Castro on their t-shirts are radical socialists. It is a form of provocation, and it appearently worked on you and btw it is also the same color as on Redhat's frontpage. Going as far to say Redhat is advocating socialism would be helping those who believe these symbols are 0wn3d by socialist groups. Remember that the target-group are people that are pissed off of the FUD from SCO(C), Microsoft(C) among other j3rks(C), and an agressive homepage looks in order.
Well, I think it will be called "MSN Explorer"!
.NET will function perfectly with new MS Network servers. ... (more marketing)
... I doubt that it will succeed, since we have so great governments around the world, not allowing this?!?!
1. Microsoft denies that the Internet is of interest of the average user.
2. Microsoft "creates" Internet Explorer to compete with Netscape.
3. Microsoft buys the popular Hotmail among other popular portals on the Internet.
4. Microsoft extends its "MSN" to the Internet (and television).
5. Microsoft develops MSN Explorer.
* 6. Microsoft stops development of IE and Outlook.
7. Microsoft
8. Microsoft Windows Bloat2005 is delivered without TCP/IP. You can now login to the MS Network without the use of Internet.
9.
10. Microsoft users have forgotten that there was something called "The Internet". "I just login to the MS Network, its easier to use, like I read/saw somewhere", a local user said, "I hope we will implement it at our work, because of communcation with my home, telephone is sooo old-fashioned".
That is their strategy
real (wo)men don't need backups, especially thinking of OSS, mirrors is all what we need. I think it was Linus how said something simular many years ago.
"funny" to see that when SCO started the whole thing, investors believed them, but since IBM, RedHat among others (e.g. Germany) responded it has been a bear-ride *yeeehaa!!*
-> man, the last comment fits my sig
And even more here. They are pretty long, but quite informative. Take a break from the dreamworld and listen to some reality.
I agree on this point. Linux has its power in that it does *need* a business solution to survive. It was created by individuals who are interested in a fun project. Everyone is allowed to fork it, also Microsoft, eventhough I doubt it will happen within the next five years (the l33t windoze users I know are strong against *nixes (main argument: it is obsolete), and these are Microsofts "soldiers").
Linux and Open Source will pervail, when all companies start helping the developments. If they start a new project on their own (which is already happening) without a free and transparent development, the users will be sceptical about the company's intention and try to seek an alternative. Open Source is about alternatives to those companies, like Open Office (despite their current situation, the development is a lot faster than MS Office) is an alternative to MS Office.
What this case with SCO does is not only to show businesses that Linux and open source exists, how the freedom is perceived, it also hits the "common" users at home, when they look at some news on news.com.com, cnn.com, NYT, LAT and other popular news-sources around the world. But of course this is nothing like local implementations (my dad, an old MS-prayer, hear about people using Linux around, and hopes that it is much better than these marketing-developed winXP and winME he hates so much, he even think Bill Gates is nothing more than a hoax).
I have played computer-games since I got my Commodore 64, then Amiga 500 and for now the PC-generation. My favorite games on the Amiga was "North and South" and "A-train", which I enjoyed to play for a very long period. I actually just remembered how much I loved those games, when I installed UAE on my Gentoo yesterday and seing them in action again (I own the games, but was to lazy to convert them, so I downloaded them). A-train has still one of the best simulations for train and economy, eventhough it looks so simple (but it is quite hard to succeed). North And South may look like a Risk ripoff, but the graphics sure are fun. The same counts for Civilization, which I believe still have the best graphics (Inventions, starting a town, riots), eventhough Civ2 had better units-graphics (but the rest sucked, Elvis, please!).
Back on the topic: I believe that these projects can only exist if the companies give the license free and other people can develop on them further (I would like to see a A-train 2, but don't tell Maxis *ahem* EA/Maxis, they are more interested in "realism" than fun graphics).
Many game companies believe that the only solution to develop further on their games is to make them 3D. Look at Railroad Tycoon 3 in planning, Simcity 4, CC:Generals. These games maybe *look* good but the gameplay really gets deprecated when your computer has to simulate all the 3D-graphics, and you feel it isn't more to it.
Nuff said: Start developing!
OK, I am getting a bit tired of those melodramatic people writing issues with OSS that was happening at least some years ago. Unless you are building the whole thing from bottom up, every other distribution have automated setup of X. I used Gentoo for a year now, and setting X up is fscking easy, even with a NVIDIA-card, just read the documentation (that is written to be read fast).
1. While we can all agree on lacking time in our life, maybe you should look at your priorities.
2. I can accept that XFree is developed slowly, but not so slow that nobody are using it. The reason thing that happen was that a developer left and created a forum for ideas to X. I think it is monitored by the XFree86 team, and it is really THAT was missing in their project (open forums).
well, it is obviously funny, but the difference between Apple doing it and Microsoft doing it is that Microsoft is in a near-monopoly situation, and has minimal rights to take use of competitor measurements (I sound like a suit!). While there already were two major competitors on the market, Real and Apple QT, Microsoft went in with its own format, and since the Microsoft platform comes with this option in the installation (and most pre-installs have everything installed, at least the home users) the other two have to be downloaded first (and maybe even be acknowledged for their existence). Remember that Microsoft controls the market for people that don't know better.
I am getting a bit tired of comparing Photoshop with GIMP. GIMP Is Mot Photoshop (well, nice try at least :). When you would search for jobs as a graphic designer, you would see that they require that you can use Photoshop (among other adobe programs). You won't see that with GIMP for some years, so yes it is THE standard (you won't find many Macs without running several Adobe applications).
Before I learned to use Photoshop, which was a requirement of my study, I used the GIMP for the homepages I designed. The handling has always been somewhat weird but I don't complain, because I get it for free. If I was in the mood of complaining, I could start a GUI fork of the project, if it didn't work out talking with the developers. When I learned Photoshop, I also found many things weird in the beginning, but it wouldn't continue to annoy me that much as the GIMP GUI does. But when I take a look at GIMP's Developer Page I see a lot of progress happening (docks, CMYK, better (not perfect) text-tool).
yes, this raises an interesting question about the article of "what computer experience did they have?". I think some of their findings for Windows XP is based on that the users have had prior knowledge. I am not thinking of that they have been using a prior version of the systems, but that they would have been influenced by social or commercial means. If they put a 50 years woman in a test-situation, which told the conductors that she has never used windows before, it doesn't mean that colleguages, husband, children and friends haven't talked (just 1 minute does it) about using a computer and how they just -dreamed- about updating it to this -marvelous- new Windows XP that will give you a l33t feeling (I hear even 40-years old people talk about this all the time, not l33t but very simular).
I think this is very true, but it is also happening on the windows-platform. In my study as an usability designer, we worked in projects with engineers and programmers. Their choice of usability on computers was Windows, because that was the only thing they knew about. But when they should arrange the buttons, bars, text-boxes and so on, they failed badly. The funny part of this was that they were to learn usability at our study, but because they thought they were superior in knowledge about technology, they thought THEY were to learn US how things should be done (and it didn't get better when we started to work with the industry).
But as you said, this is not true for all programmers / engineers.
so true ... last day I was pressing CTRL+ALT+1 at lot of times, and getting really anoyed. I was watching a homepage about a cool linux app that was developed, and wanted to go into console to emerge it ... until I noticed that I had booted into windows 2000 *grin* I mean, when you are on the Internet, and a bit sleepy, it doesn't really matter if you are using Konqueror or IE, they show the same rendered picture of a homepage.
smells like a cheap-scate version of their original plans, but then again it could let them to be more familiar with Linux and thereby be prepared to create their own distribution later on (and discard their own *nixes).