Which old? It's already a pain in the ass to get it back to the current "old" interface after visiting from "somewhere else" (other than home) using a browser with all the javascript &c. bells and whistles running.
I've pretty much quit using them since they moved away from free pop anyway. It sounds like they're trying to get me to go away for good...
I can't freaking believe they quote the whole thing and reply at the top. Who's stupid idea started all that type of email response anyway? You've got to scroll to the bottom then back up to the start of the first message, then read it, then scroll back up attentively looking for the start of the second message, then read it, again and again, all the way to the top. Do folks go up stairways like that; two steps up, one, down, two up, one down? Where is common sense anymore?
From one four-digit slashdot user to another, you need to read the whole 35 U.S.C. ("Except as otherwise provided in this title") to ascertain the scope. The "domain" encompassed therein is clearly "commercial use".
Yeah, well I live in central Indiana and will likely move before this (if it ever) gets implemented. DST is an idiotic idea.
This whole business of "losing business" because of lack of DST in Indiana is a steaming crock of BS. How hard is it to remember if you don't live here but deal on a regular basis with those who do that we don't change our freaking clocks? I can't remember ever having a problem remembering the time zones others live in and whether or not they change their clocks.
If Arizona wasn't such a stinking wasteland I'd move back there again just to avoid the insanity.
Have I heard correctly that Hawaii doesn't change either? Hmm...
I kid you not, I once brought home a box of Sony floppy disks from Walmart. On 6 of the disks in the sealed box were Roman numerals I - VI in what looked to be.5mm pencil. I stuck them in to see what, if anything, was on them, and it was the full set of Windows 3.11 installation disks. They were the real thing.
I called MS and spoke to someone, thinking they'd likely be interested. All I got in response was a big yawn.
I recall a time sitting at my desk in the site office, when one of the laborers came in, quit, and stormed out. About ten minutes later he came back in and said it wasn't fair that he'd been working there longer than another guy who was making a higher wage, and he wanted a raise. The superintendent said something like "You did that backwards. You should have asked for a raise and then quit if you didn't get it. I can't give you a raise. You don't work here anymore."
I realize that and this subject aren't exactly parallel situations, but they somehow have a little something in common in the way they were handled...
The bit about Linus has nothing at all to do with the main theme of the original submission. It's merely a rider like the RealID bit was to the spending bill.
One nice new thing in Firefox was the addition of yellow highlighting for secure sites, and the domain in the status bar. It really makes picking up when you're on a secure site easier. In the past you had to really look for that little lock icon or whatever.
Funny, I always keyed on the https:// part. Sounds like even more bloat has been added to the browser.
I wonder if they've fixed the broken unix scrollbar behavior yet.
It would be great in my opinion of the patent held, MS had to ante up the fine, and plugin-requiring content was pulled from web pages around the globe. Who uses plugins anyway and who isn't tired of the WWW being turned into a multimedia hell? Has there ever been a useful Flash "movie"? Why have the browser engulf another application? I'm sticking with Netscape 4.8 since it so handily allows me to specify external applications to separately handle various content in ways better than a bloated browser ever could.
"I think that if the developers of Linux (or in this case, X) ever want it to become a serious player in the desktop market they need to consider "when Mac/Windows people arrive and want to bring their habits with them". And yes, I used CTRL-C, CTRL-V to paste that."
Well, I used highlight, middle-click to paste that all the while supporting my chin with my left hand.
If the Mac/Windows folk want to come to our playground they can learn our ways, most of which are much simpler and/or more logical. Why should we accommodate their method when ours is older? If they want to use Windows why aren't they?
What nations in your computerized plan have slavery? Slavery must be in use in such a way that the slaves can go to the market and swipe their smart-cards to buy whatever for your version to take place.
Or maybe it doesn't mean quite what you think? Don't take what pertains to the land of Judea and encompass the entire globe with it. The end of the "world" wasn't the end of the globe. See 1 Corinthians 10, where they were those upon who'd come "the ends of the ages", or they were in the overlap period between the old system and the new. And look in Hebrews 8 and 9, where the same scenario is described, where the one age (the old covenant) was soon to disappear. The final end of that old covenant is the topic being discussed in Mt 24, et al. and all the distress there and in Revelation pertains to the land (world) of Judea, not the globe.
You quote a few verses in Matthew regarding how those who don't heed the warning were to be taken by surprise when the "flood" came upon them. Why don't you look a few verses prior to those where Jesus says all the things he's talking about were to happen within the (then) current generation? Certainly you don't think Jesus was mistaken, or worse, a false prophet, do you? Paul told the Thessalonians (1st letter, chapter 5) that they, as children of the light, would not be taken surprise by the event.
And what about the guy at the end of the book of John? Jesus didn't say the guy wouldn't die, but that he wouldn't before Jesus' return. If Jesus didn't return when and as he'd said, where's the guy today?
The case for most current "Christians" becomes worse yet when one considers that the "end" the original Christians watched for actually did happen in their lifetime.
Ignore the self-serving "church" tradition that the book of Revelation was the last written and consider how it's very subject matter (in great detail) corresponds directly with the things Jesus told the people then living (in Matthew 23, 24, and 25; and the parallels sprinkled throughout Mark and Luke) would happen within their lifetime. Then read through Josephus for the first-hand report.
In fact, if that stuff didn't already happen, then there's someone still alive from back then! (see John 21:21-23)
Up watching late-night broadcast TV out of Milwaukee when the movie was interrupted by a late-breaking news story about a guy who tried sticking up a bar, which failed, so he then took some hostages. That went sour so he took himself hostage, and the media showed up during a prolonged standoff. After a minute or so of seeing the backs of people's heads, the cameraman got to an opening and the guy says "I do it now! I do it now!", put the gun to his head, pulled the trigger, and dropped like a stone.
That was funny. Why use a browser that silently attempts to fix things such as missing tags? So far as I know, the only recent browser that still handles that situation correctly is Netscape Communicator 4.8
Huh. As you may have noticed, I got my slashdot account relatively early in the process, yet I've never played around with it enough to see the "notify me" option. I'll see if I can find it.
I jumped on that particular bug bandwagon at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64866# c17 but don't let that stop you from viewing especially comments #2 and #5.
The mechanism is quite useful for quickly scrolling things. Start the process from somewhere high in the trough. If you see anything which catches your eye go flying by, release the button and click it again a time or two to get the portion back into view. You don't have to move, and move, and move your mouse, nor do it again to reverse direction at least the first time. It's a much smoother process than grabbing the slider and directly dragging it around, too. Sort of a mousewheel type of action before there was such a thing.
The thing that slays me is the Mac version differs from the Windows version, and they both get their repective expected behavior, so I know it's possible to segregate the responses at compile time. That fact does not help in the situation where the person on the team who could do so will not devote any engineering time to the matter since they believe every other application is broken. He suggested to me in private email that I submit a patch. I countered with both a request to a pointer to the code section(s) involved and the argument that they'd likely spend more time going over my patch than simply backing out or #ifdefing their previous changes. I've gotten no further response.
Your description of the left mouse button behavior explicitly indicates the way in which it's broken.
When you click and hold with the left button, the slider should continue to the end of the trough toward which it started, regardless your subsequent positioning of the cursor (anywhere on screen), so long as the button remains depressed. The slider should pass right through either the place where you clicked or the pointer if it's moved. This feature has very great utility and has been purposely and needlessly broken into non-existence by mozilla.
Try it on any non-mozilla-based graphical application you have and see what I'm talking about. You may find an extremely odd situation where it doesn't work the way I've described it (I believe staroffice is weird, and of course any of the [what was it?] openlook toolkit based apps have a different mechanism).
There's no sense in stopping at either the initial click point or at the cursor wherever it is. If you want to summon the slider to a particular place you use the middle button to do so. If you only want to scroll so many pages, let off the button. The current behavior is some strange two-button-native way of doing things, and frankly, I'm surprised they even bothered to implement (and again, correctly!) the middle button action.
I'm guilty of not properly indicating the change of direction in my answer.
I realize X has no/native/ toolkits; it's just a framework. But it has native methods which are evidently largely ignored by mozilla.
I was rather pointing to a few examples of the manner in which the Windows way of doing things permeates mozilla. And by inference that's (in part) why it's performance under X suffers: because the developers have seemingly provided us with a version simply modified from the principle Windows version - modified just enough to get it to even run here.
They picked a toolkit which is (now) commonly used, the GTK, and then decided that the usual way to "do" scrollbars under Unix with the GTK was not to their liking, so they concocted some strange method which is the worst of both worlds combined. Aren't there plenty of examples available for examination?
In essence they've just about totally reinvented the wheel, and overall it has a very distinct feeling of, say, a VMware window running an OS.
That is also in part due to the XUL problem which you bring up. But I wouldn't think that XUL processing itself would be that much slower under a Unix unless they're also doing off-the-wall Windows things at that level too. But in retrospect, that wouldn't suprise me.
Because Mozilla is a Windows app which does not use the environment provided under any unix. It has to, for some reason, bring along it's own way of doing almost every little thing and in the process ignore what's available natively.
It doesn't even "know" basic X resources nor parameters like -geometry.
The scrollbars don't work properly. Sure, the middle button in the scrollbar will summon the slider directly to the cursor, and will remain captured so long as the button remains held. They got that right. But try clicking in the trough below the slider. Instead of the slider continuing it's movement all the way to the bottom so long as the button is held, it will stop at the point where the button was pressed. Even if the pointer is no longer there! Try the same on virtually any other graphic (GTK or Motif) app under a recent free unix and see how it's supposed to work.
Why is the scrollbar broken in such a manner? Because the developers don't like the native action. They much prefer their Windows way. Only they didn't even get their breakage right. If they were going to do it the Windows way, wouldn't the slider continue past the point of first click if you moved the pointer down in the mean time?
The scrollbars are my pet peeve because they render mozilla unusable at a basic control level, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg. There's saving messages in only one-to-a-file.eml format (what the hell is that?) instead of making a proper mbox format file out of any number of messages at whatever time saved.
What do you think about the broken scrollbar action for Unix in Mozilla? That's the showstopper for me. Every time I see it take several seconds to change a preference window or something, I think "broken scrollbars and this too; no thanks".
Slashdot Mirror
Which old? It's already a pain in the ass to get it back to the current "old" interface after visiting from "somewhere else" (other than home) using a browser with all the javascript &c. bells and whistles running.
I've pretty much quit using them since they moved away from free pop anyway. It sounds like they're trying to get me to go away for good...
I can't freaking believe they quote the whole thing and reply at the top. Who's stupid idea started all that type of email response anyway? You've got to scroll to the bottom then back up to the start of the first message, then read it, then scroll back up attentively looking for the start of the second message, then read it, again and again, all the way to the top. Do folks go up stairways like that; two steps up, one, down, two up, one down? Where is common sense anymore?
From one four-digit slashdot user to another, you need to read the whole 35 U.S.C. ("Except as otherwise provided in this title") to ascertain the scope. The "domain" encompassed therein is clearly "commercial use".
Yeah, well I live in central Indiana and will likely move before this (if it ever) gets implemented. DST is an idiotic idea.
This whole business of "losing business" because of lack of DST in Indiana is a steaming crock of BS. How hard is it to remember if you don't live here but deal on a regular basis with those who do that we don't change our freaking clocks? I can't remember ever having a problem remembering the time zones others live in and whether or not they change their clocks.
If Arizona wasn't such a stinking wasteland I'd move back there again just to avoid the insanity.
Have I heard correctly that Hawaii doesn't change either? Hmm...
I kid you not, I once brought home a box of Sony floppy disks from Walmart. On 6 of the disks in the sealed box were Roman numerals I - VI in what looked to be .5mm pencil. I stuck them in to see what, if anything, was on them, and it was the full set of Windows 3.11 installation disks. They were the real thing.
I called MS and spoke to someone, thinking they'd likely be interested. All I got in response was a big yawn.
I recall a time sitting at my desk in the site office, when one of the laborers came in, quit, and stormed out. About ten minutes later he came back in and said it wasn't fair that he'd been working there longer than another guy who was making a higher wage, and he wanted a raise. The superintendent said something like "You did that backwards. You should have asked for a raise and then quit if you didn't get it. I can't give you a raise. You don't work here anymore."
I realize that and this subject aren't exactly parallel situations, but they somehow have a little something in common in the way they were handled...
(why can't I post here while using tor?)
> I ... time to teach them how to set up BitTorrent to work with TOR
Using BitTorrent over TOR is quite abusive of the system and should not be encouraged.
The bit about Linus has nothing at all to do with the main theme of the original submission. It's merely a rider like the RealID bit was to the spending bill.
Funny, I always keyed on the https:// part. Sounds like even more bloat has been added to the browser.
I wonder if they've fixed the broken unix scrollbar behavior yet.
It would be great in my opinion of the patent held, MS had to ante up the fine, and plugin-requiring content was pulled from web pages around the globe. Who uses plugins anyway and who isn't tired of the WWW being turned into a multimedia hell? Has there ever been a useful Flash "movie"? Why have the browser engulf another application? I'm sticking with Netscape 4.8 since it so handily allows me to specify external applications to separately handle various content in ways better than a bloated browser ever could.
I don't care what gets worked on for version 2. The very needful scrollbar fix is most important at the present time.
I got stuck on a computer with no wheel-mouse this past week and the current broken implementation absolutely sucks.
If the Mac/Windows folk want to come to our playground they can learn our ways, most of which are much simpler and/or more logical. Why should we accommodate their method when ours is older? If they want to use Windows why aren't they?
What's next? "\" in pathways?
Okay, I'll bite.
What nations in your computerized plan have slavery? Slavery must be in use in such a way that the slaves can go to the market and swipe their smart-cards to buy whatever for your version to take place.
Or maybe it doesn't mean quite what you think? Don't take what pertains to the land of Judea and encompass the entire globe with it. The end of the "world" wasn't the end of the globe. See 1 Corinthians 10, where they were those upon who'd come "the ends of the ages", or they were in the overlap period between the old system and the new. And look in Hebrews 8 and 9, where the same scenario is described, where the one age (the old covenant) was soon to disappear. The final end of that old covenant is the topic being discussed in Mt 24, et al. and all the distress there and in Revelation pertains to the land (world) of Judea, not the globe.
You quote a few verses in Matthew regarding how those who don't heed the warning were to be taken by surprise when the "flood" came upon them. Why don't you look a few verses prior to those where Jesus says all the things he's talking about were to happen within the (then) current generation? Certainly you don't think Jesus was mistaken, or worse, a false prophet, do you? Paul told the Thessalonians (1st letter, chapter 5) that they, as children of the light, would not be taken surprise by the event.
And what about the guy at the end of the book of John? Jesus didn't say the guy wouldn't die, but that he wouldn't before Jesus' return. If Jesus didn't return when and as he'd said, where's the guy today?
Glen
The case for most current "Christians" becomes worse yet when one considers that the "end" the original Christians watched for actually did happen in their lifetime.
Ignore the self-serving "church" tradition that the book of Revelation was the last written and consider how it's very subject matter (in great detail) corresponds directly with the things Jesus told the people then living (in Matthew 23, 24, and 25; and the parallels sprinkled throughout Mark and Luke) would happen within their lifetime. Then read through Josephus for the first-hand report.
In fact, if that stuff didn't already happen, then there's someone still alive from back then! (see John 21:21-23)
Glen
Up watching late-night broadcast TV out of Milwaukee when the movie was interrupted by a late-breaking news story about a guy who tried sticking up a bar, which failed, so he then took some hostages. That went sour so he took himself hostage, and the media showed up during a prolonged standoff. After a minute or so of seeing the backs of people's heads, the cameraman got to an opening and the guy says "I do it now! I do it now!", put the gun to his head, pulled the trigger, and dropped like a stone.
That was funny. Why use a browser that silently attempts to fix things such as missing tags? So far as I know, the only recent browser that still handles that situation correctly is Netscape Communicator 4.8
I guess so.
Did you happen to follow the link to the patent?
Filed: December 14, 1998
I suggest not asking any questions whatsoever.
Why give them any ideas?
Let them introduce their best shot at their own innovation (if it's not too late for that already).
Huh. As you may have noticed, I got my slashdot account relatively early in the process, yet I've never played around with it enough to see the "notify me" option. I'll see if I can find it.
# c17 but don't let that stop you from viewing especially comments #2 and #5.
I jumped on that particular bug bandwagon at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64866
The mechanism is quite useful for quickly scrolling things. Start the process from somewhere high in the trough. If you see anything which catches your eye go flying by, release the button and click it again a time or two to get the portion back into view. You don't have to move, and move, and move your mouse, nor do it again to reverse direction at least the first time. It's a much smoother process than grabbing the slider and directly dragging it around, too. Sort of a mousewheel type of action before there was such a thing.
The thing that slays me is the Mac version differs from the Windows version, and they both get their repective expected behavior, so I know it's possible to segregate the responses at compile time. That fact does not help in the situation where the person on the team who could do so will not devote any engineering time to the matter since they believe every other application is broken. He suggested to me in private email that I submit a patch. I countered with both a request to a pointer to the code section(s) involved and the argument that they'd likely spend more time going over my patch than simply backing out or #ifdefing their previous changes. I've gotten no further response.
Taking a chance that you'll ever see this...
Your description of the left mouse button behavior explicitly indicates the way in which it's broken.
When you click and hold with the left button, the slider should continue to the end of the trough toward which it started, regardless your subsequent positioning of the cursor (anywhere on screen), so long as the button remains depressed. The slider should pass right through either the place where you clicked or the pointer if it's moved. This feature has very great utility and has been purposely and needlessly broken into non-existence by mozilla.
Try it on any non-mozilla-based graphical application you have and see what I'm talking about. You may find an extremely odd situation where it doesn't work the way I've described it (I believe staroffice is weird, and of course any of the [what was it?] openlook toolkit based apps have a different mechanism).
There's no sense in stopping at either the initial click point or at the cursor wherever it is. If you want to summon the slider to a particular place you use the middle button to do so. If you only want to scroll so many pages, let off the button. The current behavior is some strange two-button-native way of doing things, and frankly, I'm surprised they even bothered to implement (and again, correctly!) the middle button action.
I'm guilty of not properly indicating the change of direction in my answer.
/native/ toolkits; it's just a framework. But it has native methods which are evidently largely ignored by mozilla.
I realize X has no
I was rather pointing to a few examples of the manner in which the Windows way of doing things permeates mozilla. And by inference that's (in part) why it's performance under X suffers: because the developers have seemingly provided us with a version simply modified from the principle Windows version - modified just enough to get it to even run here.
They picked a toolkit which is (now) commonly used, the GTK, and then decided that the usual way to "do" scrollbars under Unix with the GTK was not to their liking, so they concocted some strange method which is the worst of both worlds combined. Aren't there plenty of examples available for examination?
In essence they've just about totally reinvented the wheel, and overall it has a very distinct feeling of, say, a VMware window running an OS.
That is also in part due to the XUL problem which you bring up. But I wouldn't think that XUL processing itself would be that much slower under a Unix unless they're also doing off-the-wall Windows things at that level too. But in retrospect, that wouldn't suprise me.
(giving up moderation privs for this...)
.eml format (what the hell is that?) instead of making a proper mbox format file out of any number of messages at whatever time saved.
Because Mozilla is a Windows app which does not use the environment provided under any unix. It has to, for some reason, bring along it's own way of doing almost every little thing and in the process ignore what's available natively.
It doesn't even "know" basic X resources nor parameters like -geometry.
The scrollbars don't work properly. Sure, the middle button in the scrollbar will summon the slider directly to the cursor, and will remain captured so long as the button remains held. They got that right. But try clicking in the trough below the slider. Instead of the slider continuing it's movement all the way to the bottom so long as the button is held, it will stop at the point where the button was pressed. Even if the pointer is no longer there! Try the same on virtually any other graphic (GTK or Motif) app under a recent free unix and see how it's supposed to work.
Why is the scrollbar broken in such a manner? Because the developers don't like the native action. They much prefer their Windows way. Only they didn't even get their breakage right. If they were going to do it the Windows way, wouldn't the slider continue past the point of first click if you moved the pointer down in the mean time?
The scrollbars are my pet peeve because they render mozilla unusable at a basic control level, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg. There's saving messages in only one-to-a-file
And there's more, much more, rotten in Denmark.
What do you think about the broken scrollbar action for Unix in Mozilla? That's the showstopper for me. Every time I see it take several seconds to change a preference window or something, I think "broken scrollbars and this too; no thanks".