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Phoenix 0.2 Web Browser: Lean, Mean Mozilla
GonzoJohn writes "Linux Orbit reviews the Phoenix 0.2 web browser: 'I've never been a huge fan of the Mozilla web browser. It's too big and too slow in my opinion. I like the Opera web browser a lot, but it is closed source, ad supported (for the free version) or costs money (if you want to get rid of the banner ads). Opera is almost exactly what I'm looking for in a web browser as far as features are concerned: fast, browser window tabs, mouse gesturing, and I can configure the interface a little. It has its problems, no doubt. Java and Javascript are big tripping points for it to name just a few. But speed is what I'm looking for.
Then along comes Mozilla's Phoenix web browser.
Phoenix still uses a lot of the Mozilla code. In fact, Phoenix code is based completely on Mozilla code, so the development should move rather quickly. Here is a link to a road map for what it's developers think is a close time-line for its development. Although still in heavy development, I have found Phoenix quite useable and stable even in the early 0.2 release and I continue to download the nightly release every day.'"
Leaner IS better.
They need a version of the browser for the PalmOS ;o) .
Here is the link to the roadmap: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/phoenix-ro admap.html
neurostarAs sad as I am to say, until now nothing has really competed with IE. Mozilla is nice (as I am using it right now) but it is big and bloaty. Perhaps this is finally a solution that is as reliable (hmm) as the MS browser and as quick (hmmm).
configurable interface
tabbed browsing
full DOM support
full javascript support
intelligent form autofill
intelligent address bar
full porn support
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
I just finished tweaking it 10 seconds ago under Mandrake 9.
I LOVE IT!
The best thing is that I can customize it so that in full screen mode, my most common bookmarks, an address bar, a google search bar, a go button, and navigation buttons are all in one thin line up at the top freeing all my screen space!
It's also the fastest browser I've ever used under either Linux or WinXP and (in the 10 seconds I've had to use it) seemingly solid.
There is only one thing missing that may force me back to mozilla: the inability to "block images from this server," i.e., to get rid of ads.
Too bad it's hamstrung by the Mozilla politics since it's based on Mozilla.
just installed this over the weekend on my SuSE 8 StinkPad and i have officially removed all other browsers except opera (i can't live without it ...) one of my co-workers had me trying release 0.1, and it wasn't bad, but it didn't have proxy support and a couple of things were buggy. talk about a huge update! 0.2 is sweeeet, get it now.
when it rains, it gets real soggy. when it pours, i'm under the tap just _waiting_ for the joy
Umm why download nightly builds of a usable, stable application?
If it's usable and stable, why not wait for the next point release?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
I've been using since 0.1 was announced (I know, that's like two weeks) and I've been quite pleased. Layout on cnn.com is pretty fscked up, but other than that it works tremendously well. It's now my primary browser.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
Nice, but it still has 50% the features of Galeon and yet uses more memory.
Opera rules!
You know it
I know it
Mouse gestures ROCK!
From the looks of it, the browser just seems like they took out the navigator part of Mozilla, and optimized it for speed, while keeping it Mozilla(not like Chimera, Galeon, and K-meleon that use thier native OS environments to gain speed). IF they can do this to navigator, why can't they just do it to all the parts like this and bundle them together. I know that there is the whole platform thing, but for Netscape, it looks like Pheonix is the way to go.
on every incremental build on this thing also?
5 25 2&mode=thread&tid=154
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/24/121
must be a slow news day...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
A duplicate story rises from the ashes of an earlier story.
Since about Mozilla 0.8 or so, Mozilla has rendered faster than any version of IE. The startup times left a little to be desired, but a lot of that is fixed by Mozilla's Quicklaunch option.
Sure it uses RAM, but so does IE, and not in "IEXPLORE.EXE" either - most of that code is integrated right into the Windows Explorer code.
A lot of people who have claimed Mozilla is "too big and slow" have never used a 1.0+ build I would assume, or are trying to compare Moz for Linux (which is =much= slower than it's Windows counterpart), with Moz for Windows.
My Phoenix never rose from the ashes. I'm apparently a version of Libc behind. (Oddly enough, I'm posting this using Mozilla 1.2.)
I agree that Mozilla is a little bit bigger then IE, but once you have them both running, the difference is small to none. You can't benchmark browsers on the internet because well, the internet is the bottleneck.
/.) twice for me and both have problems when pages come in with crazy auto-adjusting tables.
Both browsers suffer from:
Freezing intermitently
Sometimes when loading pages the browser will stop responding, sometimes it's RAM, sometimes the browsers just stops.
Strange redraw
Mozilla draws huge pages (like
But both are about the same to me. I like mozilla better because I don't have to worry about it auto-installing software for me.
% ls -l /usr/bin/mozilla /usr/bin/mozilla
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4979 May 13 18:28
Why in the name of God's green earth can't we get a decent browser built?!
We can write software to manage checkbooks, to run space shuttles, to even serve more porn than the world ever needs.
But we can't get a decent browser out the door.
Why? Why is this?
ARGH!
Every one has its problems:
Netscape (1.x through 4.x) - Buggy, never rendered quite right
IE - Sucktitude. Security holes you can drive a truck through.
Mozilla - Bloated mess. Too many damned options & features. Typical open source project -- so many features, it doesn't work right for anyone.
OmniWeb - has potential, compatible with 3 websites.
Opera - small, lean, advertises all over the damned place. Compatible with a few more web pages than OmniWeb.
Why can't we get this right??
Sorry for the rant, it's just frustrating! I don't care much about the speed (isn't that why we have supersonic processors? So we can write sh_ty code and not worry?) but it needs to WORK. Reliably. Every time.
As it is, I have *3* browsers I use regularly. OmniWeb, IE and Mozilla. Some things render correctly in each
ARGH! And now we're going to build another half-step child of Mozilla? Like the world needs _THAT_?
--NBVB
For those of you looking for it's main page, it is. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/ You can download from there.
I currently use Galeon. How does Phoenix compare to it? Is it faster? Better? New interface features?
I continue to download the nightly release every day.
And I download the daily release every night.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
... it'll be just as big, slow and bloated as any other full-featured browser. People want features. Features come at a price: size and speed. The only way to get both the features and the speed is by using beefier hardware.
It's small, (300K), fast, and free. What else could you possibly want?
Anyone know if it's faster that Galeon / Skipstone ? I've been looking for a good browser for my old laptop, Dillo is the only thing fast enough, but it doesn't support JavaScript, CSS, SSL, etc.
"One thing that I found kind of a pain was that when you first start up Phoenix, it doesn't go straight to your home page. You go to a user menu where you select a username to launch the browser."
That is dumb. Since all modern OS's (even Windows) are now multiuser, each computer user should have their own user-name anyway.
What are you going to do when the Iraq "war" plunges the Dow below 7000?
This is hardly the first project with the goal of creating a small, quick, standards-compliant browser. I predict it will fail like the rest. The reason is simple. While it is of course true that 90% of the users of any given program will only use 10% of the features, they will all use a slightly different 10%. In the end, leaving out the 90% of features that you deem "bloat" will lose far more than the 10% of customers that you were counting on.
You can even see this in the posts that are showing up here already. People are saying, "wow, this looks great, as soon as it has x I'll switch over from Mozilla," "all it needs is y and IE is history," and "this is z away from beating Opera." But, of course, x != y != z, and the end result is a browser that is unusable for just about everyone.
What these teams don't realize is that the web is used for so many different things today that designing a small, general-purpose web browser is all but impossible. A web browser, if it is complete, is by definition a large, complex system. Microsoft and Mozilla have accepted this. It's time for the rest of us to do so as well.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Why not save the few minutes it takes you to download and install the nightly builds of Phoenix in the morning, and, you know, settle for Mozilla?
You'd probably end up with a good thirty seconds more at the end of your day to kick back and enjoy.
I don't mind downloading the latest builds. However, every time I do I basically delete the old mozilla directory and uncompress the new one. Of course, the plugins are deleted when using this method. Does anyone know if its ok to simply install over the previous directory? If so would my plugins and Java stay the same. Keep in mind I am not deleting my profile directory.
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
why does that picture of the phoenix look like a SWAN FROM HELL.
When will people understand the difference between tabbed browsing and MDI windows?
I really prefer Opera's MDI windows. Because I am able to view more than one windows at a time but still can hide/restore all the windows with a single click. I just like it to move my "surfing workspace" around quite fast (i.e. with ONE click) but still have the advantages of "normal" windows.
It's practically the same mozilla code, only that some features are removed, like mail, so the result product is very small, but it still uses XUL, which is the main cause of mozilla slowness.
I downloaded it to test on my amd 333 64mb laptop, but it is still too slow for me to use.
However, it's a little more usable in this laptop than mozilla itself.
I want a fast, small browser with tabs, java, javascript, flash and saving passwords. There isn't any right now, being Opera the closest one. Problems: adware, no password saving.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Gone but planned:
Still there:
Most of the stuff that is gone but planned just has a broken UI. You can set the prefs if you want to edit your javascript config files or copy the config files from your mozilla directory. Exceptions are the sidebar and the site navigation bar which need to be written. This information comes from my 5 minute review of the browser that I posted last time and the followup comments to it. (My apologies to Asa for getting a few of the details wrong in my first review)
when you run the mozilla installer, just don't install all the things like mail, composer, etc. it loads much faster. IMHO of course.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Unfortunately, there is no version for Mac OS X yet.
The nightly builds can be downloaded here.
try lynx! :)
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
For the curious, Mozilla and Phoenix are still pretty slow when doing XSLT with large XML docs, compared to things like Xalan.
You know, simple things like reporting bugs, or documentation.
Well, all i can say is, im hooked. Im a web developer, and thus in my days i get to look at a lot of browsers, and i can say this:
Pheonix is the only browser that has come close to tempting me away from IE!
All i can say is, its fantastic. Small, lightweight. Has jsut the features i use, and is clean as well.
It even makes fonts look good etc. I think ill be sticking for the time being, and i will certainly be following the development closely from now on!
Like I read in a post some days ago, to bad they don't provide patches, having to download 13 MB every release is quite a lot. But what else is still missing?
Well Im satisfied, I cant wait to see where this project goes in the future. I just installed Phoenix on my box, and Im running it over a SSH tunnel from my house to work, and over this slow setup I still get better response out of this than I do Mozilla, Evolution, Opera, and a few other X applications that I run. Its not as fast as Lynx... but its tolerable for when I want a graphical browser over ssh. If the optimization in future version helps speed things up, then Ill be satisfied.
I'm new to the OSS scene so if someone could help me out, it would be much appreciated. I'm using windows right now (ugh) and am wondering if anyone knows how to automate downloading and installing the nightly builds of Phoenix. If I can't, will I lose preferences by just unzipping the newest build into my existing folder? Thanks.
Mozilla is slow under win2k, but Phoenix is much faster and smoother. Also love the google search box next to the address bar, like I have IE setup. Buttons are small so the web page can have more real estate. For a 0.2 version browser it's looking excellent.
And no matter what people tell you mozilla is NOT faster than IE. IE has them beat for speed, but Phoenix is getting closer to matching it.
At one point, Moz was rendering faster than the IE on the machine I was using at the time - a P2/400 w/64mb of RAM running Win98SE. This was in the ~0.9.frog-knows era. IE was I believe either 5.01 or 5.5. I don't remember which.
Nowadays, while Moz is pretty snappy, IE hands it's ass to Moz in sheer render speed. Don't ask me what changed, I have no idea. I've noticed this from a P200/48mb RAM laptop running win98se to a P4/2000 w/256mb or RAM running WinXP.
I still use Mozilla for everything I can, though.
InThane
No, what would have been weird is if you had just installed Phoenix 0.2 on your SuSE 8.1 Professional.
My copy of the later came in the mail today, so I could do just that, except I've already seen Slashdot today, so I guess I'm old news.
There should be a name for installing the latest thing, poping to Slashdot and finding that thing reviewed. (The Slashing Edge ?!) Triple points for first post, too.
That's Konqueror and you know it!
I guess I've finally become numb to the majesty of goatse when the first thing I notice on that pic was the browser.
Although the penguins poking round the side were cute.
On Linux, Phoenix has a long way to go before it fetches me away from Galeon. However, it's the first browser on Win32 that's really compelled me to consider switching from IE. While Mozilla is technically faster on Win32, to me it's never really 'felt' faster than IE. Phoenix wipes the floor with Mozilla and IE in the speed department.
If you're running Win32, you can use StrokeIT for mouse gestures on this otherwise feature-lite browser.
(Score:-1, Wrong)
Ambushing unsespecting squares with with the holey portal is an important part of operation mindphuk. All right thinking discordians (programmers for instance) would instincively know this.
Do not take the oracle of the portal lightly!
..use text based browsers like Lynx or Links. They may seem ackward at first, but you'll get used to them and then you don't want to live without one.
:).
I could imagine you need browser to find information about something - text based browsers are more than sufficient for that task. Besides it's a pleasure to read clear console text (with custom font set, of course
Of course it's nice to look at pictures of pretty girls once in a while - I do that too, but for that purpose mozilla / konqueror is more than good enough. The point is - ascii text browsers are the best if you are surfing to get some pure information about something.
As I understand it, Phoenix is one part of an experiment in modularizing Mozilla. As others have pointed out, a Mail/News app called Minotaur is in the works. We might ses spinoffs for Composer and ChatZilla as well, but I don't know if anything's set up for them yet.
In that light, Phoenix is actually the first step in the very process you're describing.
If you'd like a simple Windows app to download and install the latest nightly build of Mozilla or Phoenix with just a few button clicks, check out MozUpdate.
Does anybody else find it ironic that the icon and symbol for Mozilla is a dinosaur? Isn't the last thing you want associated with your software the image of an old,big and clunky, (and extinct species)? Who was the marketing genius that thought that one up.
I can't figure out what the fuss is all about. I just ran it on my machine, with little improvement.
First of all, let me say how I tested it. I am running Gentoo linux on a PIII-500, which is lucky enough to have someone who distributed the source to it for us. So I compiled it and started trying to use it.
My previous browser was (and now is again) Galeon.
Everything worked pretty well: I downloaded mouse gestures (and then changed permissions so that they would work without being root), and advanced tabbed browsing, and was generally impressed.
But then I checked on the speed thing that everyone touts by
1) Opening a bunch of tabs and switching between them.
2) Going back and forward rapidly in the browser history
3) Running some javascript animations
Then I ran gnome-system-monitor (which can detect threads, unlike top), and checked on the memory requirements.
Know what I found with all of this? Its seems to run the same speed as galeon. It takes about 25MB on my system, and runs about the same speed.
Now, both of these two do run faster and with smaller memory requirements than Mozilla, but...we should probably compare it to all Mozilla variations to see if its doing something unique in the open source world.
The reason I switched back to galeon is because Galeon has all of the features that Phoenix does, PLUS it has smart bookmarks (so that you can search google, freshmeat, dogpile, slackware, etc).
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
but I do not see any time difference over my stripped out IE 6. I still end up waiting on the proxy to resolve, and once I upped the number of objects IE handles, they seem to both scream. The only issue I see with IE is heavy drop down box usage scerws up screen writing. Next time I have mod points I will bring up Phoenix and see how it performs. Either way you look at it they BOTH blow away Mozilla performance wise...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Opera is my main browser and I absolutely love it. Fastest browser ever? Yes! The only problem is that it renders a very small minority of pages wrong, which I'll then check out with K-Meleon.
or are you serious?
maybe you just don't get out enough and try it on many different computers, on my 933mhz (256MB ram) work machine both are instant. on either browser.
Maybe it's something else in your machine.
BTW, I have something like 100-200 bookmarks. So don't try to say that it's because I have no bookmarks.
For a REAL Phoenix screenshot, go to http://www.joshuaholman.net/phoenix.png.
Support the Chagossians
Oh, you mean that a GTK interface is faster than the mozilla XML/javascript/GIF slow-as-molasses piece of shit interface that mozilla uses? Well I'll be damned! In all seriousness though, shut the fuck up.
Learn it. Use it.
If your Mozilla install isn't being used by others, just put your plug-ins in ~/.mozilla/plugins/ (or ~/.phoenix/plugins/). Both browsers will pick 'em up fine from there.
iSKUNK!
Phoenix code is based completely on Mozilla code, so the development should move rather quickly.
Bwahahahaha ! Now that put a smile on my face.
(title borrowed from one of my favorite lines from a PJ's episode)
While I agree with a previous poster in that the "light browser" is really a myth and Phoenix will eventually get bloated and there is nothing wrong with that, I also think that the real advantage of Phoenix is that they can improve the old and not so intuitive User Interface that Mozilla inherited from Netscape.
Mozilla, and for that matter Netscape >= 6, was designed as we know from the ground up with a greatly improved, new codebase. But they kept the same UI to make sure the old users wouldn't freak out. I won't argue whether that was a good decision. But I think that Phoenix has nothing to inherit and should go ahead and put all the effort on an improved UI. That by itself will make the effort worthwhile.
My 1.99 cts
I have to admit, the Mozilla team did a pretty decent job of reimplementing Java through C++. I don't think it's as fast as they though it would be, sadly.
A shell script which does the same thing.
"Sure it uses RAM,"
Actually, I was shocked at how little ram Mozilla uses. When minimized, Mozilla uses a megabyte of ram. One megabyte. Why so little? Mozilla tends to pick up the odd memory leak even in current versions all the time, but when you minimize it, it does this thing where it internally restarts itself (guessing, since in drops down to a meg of ram, then loads up to 6 megs with ~15 websites loaded). IE never does anything like this.
On Linux, Mozilla doesn't do this because the Window managers don't have any standard hinting for min/max/restore (good in some ways [the WM should manage stateful window positions/size], bad in others [apps can't hook it when they need to]). Since I only use Mozilla on Windows at work, this was a completely shocking behaviour to me, when I'd typically restart the browser every 3 or so weeks at home (+ get a new nightly).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'll take that and raise you the Windows 2000 version of it screenshot
I was under the impression that if you paid, there are no ads whatsoever.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
XHTML 1.1, 1.0 strict, CSS 1, 2, 3 strict.
Oh, you'll also need an entire quirks engine that mimics IE 5. Good luck!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Get a look at Atlantis a GNOME 2 native Webbrowser light and usable. Click on Atlantis for Screencaps and bins
yuuccckkk...microsoft.com
why do you hang out on slashdot if you're an MS fan-person?
Has anyone here bothered to try Netscape 7 yet, it's fast, solid, has a tabbed interface, comes preconfigured for Java, and flash. It's so much better than Netscape 6, tons faster. It's like opera without the ads.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
It preserves an outside set of plugins, and does not reget from the server if the local version is newer.
l a-i686-pc-linu
#!/bin/sh
# newmoz.sh
cd ~/moz/
wget -t 2 -T 40 ftp.mozilla.org//pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/mozil
x-gnu.tar.gz;
# This will re-extract Mozilla regardless of if you downloaded a new version.
rm -rf mozilla;
tar xzf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz;
rm -rf mozilla/plugins/
# links in external plugins automatically (keep your Java and flashplugins easily!).
ln -s ~/plugins mozilla/plugins
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Well, you just fixed everything, didn't you, you idiot.
The difference for me lies in good old-fashioned goodwill. I believe in open source, its developers, and share in the overall passion for software that is developed with me in mind far more that marketable software with corporate profit in mind. Pure and simple.
I often hear someone defend Mozillas memory usage and speed (which I still find incredibly sluggish on an Athlon 900 / 640MB, a Duron 800 / 256MB machine, and a few others with noticable delays with any on screen widgets) by saying that Windows loads many of the components to support IE into their base OS.
This ignores the obvious argument that this only addresses launch times and rendering ignores the still noticably sluggish widgets. I wonder why somebody didn't just integrate gecko with these components? Create an ActiveX gecko to use instead of MSHTML.DLL, use standard Windows toolbars (because we all know how sucessful Xul was) and add in the other good features of Mozilla, like pop up blocking and security.
I just downloaded it and added it to Mozilla! Cool!
Now I have to check out Pheonix
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
But I prefer using it in tabbed mode these days. That way you have everything tucked in one window with no wasted screen real estate and if you want to view two windows at the same time for some reason you simply drag one of the tabs to the desktop (well, any non-opera bit of screen really) and you can do that.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The question should be, "What happens when the Iraq war plunges the DOLLAR down to pennies?"!
"Another cool feature is that you can change the font size just by holding down the "Ctrl" key and using the mouse scroll button. (No messing with drop down menu's for this anymore. I think they learned this trick from Opera.) "
:)
Wow, that's so cool! How cool? So cool that you can do the same thing with the shift key in IE, since version 3. Wonder where almighty Opera got it...
Good review, and I downloaded it, but check the competition's features before you rave about one
Phoenix 0.2 does not feel like a "0.2" release!
... a good choice. Why does Mozilla still default to the ugly old NS look? :) (I say that as someone who like Mozilla a whole lot, but I've never heard anyone say they preferred the NS look vs. for istance "Modern," which also ships with standard Moz.)
I happen to like the Orbitz theme, too --- small, clean, unobtrusive
One thing about Orbitz/Phoenix is that tabs are less distinguishable than they are with Modern (and most other themes) -- it takes some peering to figure out which tab is active, which makes it too easy to close an active tab accidentally.
Phoenix starts fast, stays fast. I've had it freeze up once or twice in the last week, but Hey, I guess that's where the 0.2 comes in. (I remember when Mozilla would freeze a lot more than that, though it hasn't in a long time, for me.)
Also, unlike regular Mozilla, it has smarter tabbed browsing default settings, but I wish they would also include smarter Scripts settings, and *not* allow pages to hijack your browser by default.
Tim
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I use the 1.2 Alpha version of Mozilla and it feels faster than the 1.1 stable release. I can't see a browser going much faster...plus this version has so bug fixes that make certain pages scroll smoother.
SIGFAULT
People sometimes just ignore the facts. You learn to deal with it.
Add to that already-beautiful list of "mozilla is sweeter" features:
Portability - I can use the same browser on my linux box at home as I can in the windows labs at my university - which is great, IMO.
Mozilla Composer/Mail/Add-ons - free stuff that people forget are included with the full install - you shouldn't ignore those nice freebies.
There are several other "cool" things I like about Moz, like zoom ( ctrl + ), image blocking by server, etc. - but I don't know if IE implements these as well.
Moz isn't perfect, no. But it is my favorite. Phoenix is pretty sweet though - it may steal my browsing crown soon.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
This software is only slightly faster to start up cold than full Mozilla is. If you wanna be wowed by speed combined with Gecko page rendering, use K-Meleon for Windows or Galeon for Linux. XUL support is just too big a footprint to call this a 'light' browser.
I hope you were joking. But if you are not, let me explain why you come off as an ignorant moron.
1. Vast majority of
2. Some of us are at work, hence are forced to use Windows.
3. The screenshot was from a microsoft page on "security and privacy" running in an OSS browser. Get it? The joke is on you.
4. Go buy yourself a clue, kiddie. Hating Microsoft is so last year. Get with the times. If you don't like it then kill yourself.
For the same reason that, since the 1880's, we've been able to go down the rows of a cornfield, cut it at the base, lean it over, take the ears of, then take the husks off, pull the kernels out and throw all the rest away....but for some reason something as simple as getting the tractor feed paper to bend the way it sits in the shipping box rarely ever happens.
Some of the silly stuff is just too hard, and some of the hard stuff is so easy, and we don't get to choose which is which.
Had only some neutral, perhaps governement (ANSI) standard been the only acceptable standard for web browsers, and changes been made to THAT, all of this would be academic.
Instead, lazy programmers write things to 'look cool' on a monoplist's standard, and they break all the other browsers, and vice-versa. It looked good at the time, but it caused a lot of problems we still have to deal with today.
Didn't adhere to the W3 standard? Enjoy: this is what you reap. If not, put up with it, like I do...
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Most people just download a precompiled version of their favourite browser (.rpm .deb .exe) which is precompiled with conservative settings.
When you compile it yourself, be aware of the compiler flags (/etc/make.conf) these settings can seriously speed things up for everything.
I also use the latest version of gcc, 3.2, most precompiled things are compiled with gcc 2.95.3, so they are a lot slower.
All these small factors you might not look at can speed everything up more than you think. I used to run Xwindows with mozilla and it was quite slowly, galeon was nice though. But now with the new gcc and -O3 compiler flags mozilla is better than nice and galeon is more than twice as fast.
(Phoenix) Bugzilla Bug 171082:
Do everything possible to minimize the build size.
Targeted for Phoenix 0.3 according to Bugzilla.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I checked mozdev-googlebar. So far it doesn't seem to say anything about phoenix - but by the time they hit another milestone or three perhaps the googlebar will work on both mozilla and phoenix. Try submitting it as a request...
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Try these... and enjoy the world's fastest browser without ads or payment! Opera is still tops for speed.
w miwC-tLcMs-WahwF
w-EeiCL-QyJFS-3mYfc-rFzFh-NMFWk
w-ChPii-dvunr-
w-X5eKx-neJUc-3EMTP-ABLJv-KEDiV
w-iJ8Xe-VP3my-LTheH-w4DUQ-zyhEw
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
anyone else want to see PPC port on that roadmap?
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
I use Moz on a pentium 2 266. It loads reasonably well (about as fast as IE, i mean) without the quick-load option. *shrug*. Because I can use tabs, and not seperate windows, for each page/comment/article of slashdot I open up, I save a little bit of memory, I beleive. I like it, it works for me..but then i'm just preaching to the anti-MS choir here...
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Create an ActiveX gecko to use instead of MSHTML.DLL
As you said, the IE engine is an ActiveX control. Here's a Gecko ActiveX control, and it even comes with a program that patches programs that embed IE so that they embed Gecko instead.
But ActiveX will get you nowhere on the other (non-Windows) platforms tnat Moz supports. Therefore, an ActiveX based Gecko browser for Windows should really be a separate project.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There's always crazy browser in case you run windows :-)
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
I've been very happy with Mozilla. It doesn't seem slow to me like it did early on.
It sounds like Opera still has problems with JavaScript. Well, again it doesn't matter to me how fast it is if it doesn't work right. (Yes I'm aware of W3C standards issues). I guess I just don't get all the "but Opera is fast!" people. Well I suppose lynx is fast, but it's hard to use with many sites. wget to a file, then catting it is fast too :).
-Kevin
How are tabbed windows not a multiple document interface?
Sometimes the capitalized expansion of an acronym refers to something more specific than the lowercase version does. For instance, many Americans are libertarians without belonging to the Libertarian Party. Tabbed windows, in the style of CrazyBrowser, Mozilla, or Opera, are a multiple document interface (lowercase), but they are not Multiple Document Interface (capitals). A typical workstation distribution of the GNU/Linux system has a graphics device interface, but its not GDI. It also has windows (managed by metacity, sawfish, blackbox, etc), but it's not Windows.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've been using .2, and .1 before it. Pretty nice, and much more stable on Win2k than Mozilla is (not sure WHY, but it is).
The only things I dislike:
1. I hate the drop down in the url bar when I'm entering a site. The ability to disable that would be awesome.
2. I also dislike entering text in the url bar, and prefered hitting ctrl-shift-L to open the location window to type it in there (don't ask why, it's just habit).
3. Have an option to disable the download manager. If you're using Phoenix, you should be competent enough to download without training wheels.
4. That'll make it perfect.
Galeon is mozilla stripped down...its faster than ie in most cases and already on a stable 1.2.x release...
The font handling in Mozilla (and almost every other non-Qt or GTK 2.x app) sucks. Perhaps it has certain cases where it works, but throw something even mildly non-standard at it and it chokes. Currently, I just can't get Mozilla 1.1 to correctly display fonts. My setup, of course, is insane (CVS version of FreeType, Xft2, and 100% Type-1 fonts) but it works just fine on every build of KDE 3.x I've ever imposed it on. While all Qt based apps display text with incredible clarity, Mozilla's fonts look truely god aweful. And Phoenix, which kicks immense amounts of ass in Windows, only seems to be able to display what looks like Comic Sans (which is strange, because I don't HAVE Comic Sans) in Linux. I've tried editing unix.js to no avail. These custom font handling routines have gotta go (that includes you too, Abiword!) Just use Xft for god-sakes and stop trying to roll your own!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Anyone ever try Galeon ? Galeon is a browser for Gnome, based on Mozilla. Fast enough for me, plugin support, gestures, etc. I love it! The windows world is still lacking a really good browser. Phoenix is getting there; it's step up from anything else I've seen, but it's still not quite there.
Click on Atlantis
No XUL crap, No long waiting for Compile of Mozilla. Simply start using Atlantis.
That image in on the desktop of your screenshot. Did you do that? If so, what prog did you use to do the fancy radiosity rendering?
If you want to have a really "no bloat" browser, then you have to make your application gray with really small widgets.
I'd love the 'zilla a bit more if I could get rid of flash entirely... Anyone got clues on how to do that in windoze?
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Does anyone know how to remove these from Mozilla for OS X? On this platform, you simply download a
I'd love to nuke Composer and ChatZilla if I could.
you've never used it.
Its the same speed as Galeon, uses 23MB on my system (which is only 2 less than Galeon), doesn't do applets very well (try one - it loads it out of the browser), doesn't do tabbed browsing yet in most major releases, and will hardly do DHTML well at all.
And it doesn't have nearly the features of Mozilla or Galeon.
I think its worth the measly 2MB price for the same speed and many more features that you get from Galeon.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Is total startup time. By that I mean the time it takes your browser to start AND render your start page. Just by
my own anecdotal experience, IE 6 and Mozilla 1.2a each take ~6 seconds to startup and load google.com, and this
is without QuickStart enabled. On the same machine, Phoenix takes ~4 seconds to load and render google.
All on my P2 400 with 384 MB RAM. This isn't much, but take into account that IE is definitely loading faster, so
Mozilla and Phoenix are making that time up with zippy rendering. Just my two cents.
The ability to monopolize an industry is insignificant, next to the power of the source.
Okay, we all know Mozilla can do anti-alised fonts if you stuff around with it and make it run with Xft - I downloaded a binary of Moz1.0 with anti-alised fonts last week and it runs beautifully (although the binary was a cut down, no-thrills browser-only Mozilla).
So WHEN oh WHEN are Gecko-based browsers going to start compiling for anti-aliased fonts as standard?! Pheonix should do this; it would certainly be the clincher for me. It CAN be done, it WORKS, so why is "ugly" still the default?
-"I still believe in revolution; I just don't capitalize it anymore." - srini!
In my sblock.ini file:
/*.*.swf
IOW, block all flash bs.
You can comment this line out at will to re-enable this for whatever times you might want it back.
I made this to show to my students.
The DHTML is old, so it won't work with DOM, EXCEPT for the stars which should be whizzing by, which use normal dhtml. Does that work?
For a java example, try this. It uses signed applets to allow you to save and load a game. When I tried it, it opened another window to contain the applet, and I couldn't get it to save for anything.
I tested these with Konqeror v. 3.0.3 for these negative results. This version also doesn't have tabbed browsing built-in. As for extra media types, plugger is a fairly simple and small install, and it has given me all the media types I use, at least (everything that ghostview, adobe, mplayer, abiword, gnumeric, image magick, and xmms are capable of playing).
If all I want is what konqeror can do, I'll just use links in graphical mode.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
If you guys are weeting your pants over this, you have to be trying Chimera on Mac... no XUL, so that overhead is spared; you do get a feel for how quick the Gecko engine can be.
When your life is no longer your own...
Chimera is here. It might be nice to see Chimera and Phoenix share ideas, programmers, resources, and code, but both projects seem to be doing OK so far as separate entities.
Besides, if they merged the projects, they'd have a very confusing animal for a logo: flaming bird with the head of a male lion, the body of a goat, and the tail of a snake: a 'phimera'.
Since the new project would also be Mac OS X -native, they really should also crossbreed this new 'phimera' with Hexley (the Darwin mascot), a duck-billed platypus with horns. The result would be a horny duck-faced lion with a goatee that lays flaming serpent eggs midair.
I think you can see now the grave importance of keeping these two projects separate.
-Mark
We certainly can't *pay* for anything. If Opera is such a great browser, why not reward them by shelling out, forking over, coughing up, or plunking down the INSIGNIFICANT amount of money required to BUY it?
Currently the Phoenix package still contains all/most of the Mozilla code that is being replaced. Therefore the size is ~25MB as you said. But when they finally remove all the cruft it should be about 8MB or so.
Also, same speed as Galeon, but still using interpreted(?) XUL. I think they've done great things there. And it's only 0.2!
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
AFAIK this depends too in the gcc linker, the optimization is broken and that's the reason the binaries are so big, compared to, ms VC++ for example. (1.2 MB vs 300k)
This is a very good project to undertake, and can benefit all the software that uses GCC as compiler (more in the C++ side that C, I think).
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
The DHTML page didn't work, like you said. But you test for browsers in the javascript. When I asked Konq to pretend to be MSIE, it did work.
Oh, I use the latest Konq from the KDE 3.1 beta's
www.time.com Mozilla 4 seconds, IE 5 seconds.
www.merck.com Mozilla 4.5, IE 4.75
LOL.
We should find someway to convert these numbers to their relative fps speeds. That way, we can have entire threads, "My browser has more fps than ur browser d00d! I'm leet!".
Content providers have much different desires, which leads them to make web pages that force users to get big hairy bloated browsers with zillions of features. Sometimes this is because they want really tight control over the user experience, which is marketer-speak for "pages that look cool", and sometimes this is because they're using incompatibility-encouraging-bloatware authoring tools to write their pages in (especially if they don't know any better
The only good excuse out there for turning a browser from something small and simple into a bigger-than-emacs operating system was that Java-capable browsers offered a mechanism to make the underlying OS ignorable, which would have let us get rid of Microsoft a few years ago. Internet Explorer wasn't intended to anti-trustfully undermine the profitability of the browser market by being free (Netscape has already done that, and was in no position to complain), but it was critical for Microsoft to avoid having browsers kill Windows by rendering backwards compatibility uninteresting.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
would be a better place if everyone developed and tested with a 200 MMX with 64 megs of RAM. Sure, most people have upgraded -- but you can bet your ass that if you can get something to run good on the above config -- that it would really smoke on some these furnaces of today. Just think of all the memory leaks that would get fixed before release...All of a sudden a program "appearing" 45 seconds after startup on this machine would not be acceptible.
Or better yet -- you all could chip in and buy me a new laptop -- and I will stop whining.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
If you like it so much, what's wrong with paying for it? Yeah, yeah, I hear the cry "software wants to be free!", but the truth is, I have to put bread on the table.
> Since about Mozilla 0.8 or so, Mozilla has rendered faster than any version of IE.
for HTML, hmmm yeah suppose so.
for DHTML, nope not even close, even with the recent DHTML. i'm a web developer and spend most of my time in mozilla, flicking over to IE6 to check any kinky DHTML/DOM/JScript i'm doing, and mozilla just doesn't cut it. i'm running a P4 1.8 with 512 megs and its till slow.
for exmaple: http://www.cross-browser.com/ss/solar_system.html
try that in IE then mozilla (remember to only have one brower on the page at a time). granted not an everyday use, but i use DHTML for a dragable toolbar for my page layout tool with opacity and their is a notisable difference.
and the whole - "opps forgot to emit the mouseoff event" is really annoying. and the fact i can crash mozilla with some legacy IE4 code is annoying too - but i'm sure that will get fixed at some point.
lastly i love mozilla - like a lizard.
"Maybe with some divine intervention, the next version of Microsoft's OS will actually be good." - Linus Torvalds
"I like the Opera web browser a lot, but it is closed source ... [and] costs money ..."
The poster raises the popular specter of "closed source". Yet he goes on to complain about the cost of the software.
All software costs money to develop. The only way Free Software can sustain itself is through community contributions: People (and companies) fund the development -- either directly with code, or indirectly with cash. Free Software is about Freedom, not cost.
I wonder how much money this person has donated to the Phoenix project?
I wonder, if Opera gave away their browser, would this person still be unhappy?
I wonder if the poster is interested in Freedom, or simply a Free Lunch?
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Go into your Phoenix or Mozilla directory.
Edit the file defaults/pref/unix.js at about line 230.
Change
pref("font.FreeType2.enable", false);
to
pref("font.FreeType2.enable", true);
And there you go!.
You probably should also tinker with font.antialias.min,
font.scale.tt_bitmap.dark_text.min and font.scale.tt_bitmap.dark_text.gain until the fonts look good to you.
Dude, you're being trolled. The words "final solution" don't even show up in the original post that is supposedly being quoted.
-- Brian
. . . this URL
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Rob Pike's description of the 8 1/2 windowing system on Plan 9 was "Ken and I have spent a decade learning what a windowing system shouldn't do and we wrote one that doesn't do that", and it was small and blazingly fast, in spite of rendering Unicode fonts and such.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
IMHO of course
dude sarcasm. haven't been laid in a while? us married guys forget about you young, single dudes havin to work for it.
P.S.M
i guess a 4 helps my karma?
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Did I just miss it or is there no source available for it? What are us non-x86 users supposed to do?t
Someone suggested copying the ~/pref.js file from a Mozilla installation to the analogous place in the Phoenix installation; this is supposed to transfer the popup/ad-blocking feature to Phoenix, although, obviously, no new adservers can be added nor any unblocked.
It doesn't check for the browser. It checks for the browser functionality:
This is the sniffer code I used:
ns4 = (document.layers)? true:false
ie4 = (document.all)? true:false
ns6 = (document.getElementById&&!document.all)? true:false
So if what you're saying is true, it actually changes the way it works when it switches.
That's way better than konqueror 3.0.3, which is what I use. I can't get it to work on my page for any reason at all. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes on that one.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Uncheck the "open unrequested windows" checkbox. Warning: this will stop popups other than adds (Polls etc)
Half a second to refresh the small preferences dialog on a near 1GHz machine is ridiculous, IMO.
It runned well immediately, seems well designed and probably solves some more problems Mozilla still suffers from, but the user interface doesn't seem optimized at all. I'll stick to Galeon, but also keep an eye on Phoenix development.
Hmmm, let's see if we can sum up this arrogant fellow's attitude:
"*I* am compliant with the W3C, IETF, and EIEIO standards. Therefore, the world must change around *me*.
"Nevermind that I arrogantly dismiss over 90% of the universe, they must change to suit my limited world view."
Clue follows:
The world uses IE. IE 5, IE6, IE 4, whatever. You and I and everyone else here who dabble in Mozilla and Mozilla-derived browsers (such as Galeon, my favorite) are, percentage-wise, down in the noise. Our market share is insignificant, and it is not likely to be significant for a long time to come.
The world uses IE. Real world users don't give a rat's ass about standards compliance - they just expect to be able to use the tool and have it work. Real users do not deserve some dufus riding in on his high horse screaming "It's all your fault, you should have used a standards-compliant HTTP rendering client!"
If you are so arrogant as to dismiss 95% of your audience, then your site must not really be worth visiting.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
I'm writing this using Konqueror 3.03-13 on RedHat 8.0. I prefer Linux. (I switched to OS X and switched back to Windows/Linux). I have no bias toward MS or IE, nor any against Moz or Konq or Opera or the W3C.
The adoption rate among business users is the key reason IE is the target browser for web designers today. AOL probably had a lot to do with that, too. We'll see if AOL can switch the target back to the standards. I think, rather, AOL using Gecko in its service software will push for MSIE compliance in Mozilla development. Perhaps as an obscure option. I guarantee if that happened--if Mozilla developers added a "MSIE" compatibility mode to Mozilla, the adoption rate of Mozilla would increase dramatically. Something to consider. . .
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Does anyone do it right. Do even the authors of CSS have the slightest clue of what right is. None of it shows up the same on different browsers. I have several books on CSS, I run their code through CSS validators and it generally fails. I doubt there is such a thing as CSS done right. But you are right on one issue, people tweak their CSS to achieve effects for ie on Win32, and forget the rest of the world...helping us keep the MS monopoly growing.
Someone working on the UI of Phoenix must use OS X on a daily basis eh? When you try to customize the toolbar, you get the "Tool Bar Configuration" pane slide down from the menu, just like the way it is in OS X! You can also add extra "flexible space" on either in the tool bar, so you can "float" the buttons in the center. (I always thought this is more efficient) I was surprised to see this sliding pane when I tried out 0.1.
:) Will this make it into 0.3?
Now if they can only do that with the Preference pane as well...
(I'm only using the windows version of 0.2 right now, so I'm not sure if this applies to the linux version)
I really like Phoenix, it seems to have a ton of potential. I just have to figure out how to make it work with Flash now.
Hope the Linux version is as good.
I have a number of different browsers installed:
* Mozilla - I never use. Way too slow. Takes around 30 secs to open up a browser window first time. Still slow after that on my machine
* K-Meleon - used to use this instead of IE when (a) I wanted something fast and (b) on sites that crash IE (quite a few on my machine). It loads first time in the same time as a preloaded IE. Lightening fast
* Phoenix - definately replacement for above. Loads around 10secs first time but after that it's instantaneous (as opposed to IE still taking around 4 secs each new window).
I'll be gradually moving all my bookmarks from IE to Phoenix and using that for all my browsing, keeping IE for testing the sites I work on and the occasional site that Phoenix doesn't render (if I ever find one). I am *very* impressed with Phoenix.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
1 word: unuseable
YAMS (Yet Another Memory Shortage)
. I like the Opera web browser a lot, but it is closed source, ad supported (for the free version) or costs money (if you want to get rid of the banner ads)
so buy it ? support the developers...
in ver 0.2
think i'll wait for the 0.3, or stick with moz 1.2a.
somehow i still prefere moz over phoenix,
might change over time when phoenix gets more features.
If you can really cause a reliable, or even slightly repeatable crash, file a bug with Talkback-ID numbers. It will get attention! And be sure to attach your test code to the bug.
(Serious attention to crashers over the last couple of years has sent Mozilla's MTBF up by leaps and bounds. VERY LITTLE kills Mozilla dead these days, and that's why. Crashers are important.)
http://rocknerd.co.uk
I think Phoenix works great, and at less than 8Mb download, certainly worth it. The fact that it runs out of the box (no installing DLLs and stuff) is a BIG plus. When evaluating software this makes it easier to jump in. I dropped the whole Mozilla testing thing ages ago - simply too much bloat. The main bugbears of posters seem to be the initial loading time of Moz and the rendering speed. My observations on my PII 350 with lots of RAM is that load time is only slow at first use, and even then not enough to complain about. Anybody who still complains about this should preload or be shot. Only would like to ask the developers one thing about rendering: Initial rendering of a page is done at good speed, but when you follow a link and go back again, it looks like it is rendering the page again from scratch. Is that the case, or just how it appears? Or is there a way to switch on rendered page caching? Appearance of the browser is minimal and therefore perfect - most users do not need every possible command and option as a cute icon in front of them. I know some people have beef with tabbed/mdi windows. Once again more clutter - I have a taskbar at the bottom of my screen for that. The built in download manager is great, is that normal a Mozilla feature?
My verdict - good stuff indeed and it will definately be my default browser at home from now on (still don't know how where to enter the firewall/proxy/whatever username & password to get out on the net at the office)
TSJ
The parent doesn't have it quite right...
.mozilla}/profiles/default/*.slt) is different to your Phoenix installation, which keeps everythying in the one directory.
t o", true);
Your Mozilla directory (Which is either {\Documents and Settings\Username\Application Data\Mozilla,
unix.js doesn't exist. There are two files. prefs.js is generated by Mozilla when you edit your preferences. Don't edit this. The file even warns you.
To make changes, edit user.js. This overrides prefs and lets you set things you want to keep set. A couple I recommend.
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.external.mail
Tells Mozilla to use the system wide installed mail program instead of Mozilla Mail for mailto: links
user_pref("browser.xul.error_pages.enabled", true)
In 1.2 alphas, turns on support for pages that tell you that a domain couldn't resolve, instead of the annoying modal dialog that you have to get rid of.
From the article:
"As for features, well I guess it all depends on what your looking for."
"Your" expected to use grammar checking when you write articles and expect to sound credible, Mr. Author.
- IP
Chimera doesn't kill popup windows.
Killing popups is one of the primary features that pushing me from IE to Mozilla. In spite of the fact that I really love IE.
Chimera also doesn't manage image permissions. I realize that that puts a drag on the speed, if you have a good-sized database of servers, but I'm tired of banner ads trying to blink me to death.
Have you tried Konqueror? Yes, you need the kde libraries, but if you don't like the desktop then don't use it.
I have been using Phoenix 0.1 (will update later today), and I have been using it since it was released.
It has all the features I want, is fully standards compliant, and runs faster than Internet Explorer on my machine at work.
If the fine people behind this project can give me more features without slowing down the browser, I'll be even happier with my choice.
If you ask me, the project won't fail, because it has already succeeded
Creating a browser that pleases you is not complex. Creating a browser that pleases everybody, is.
You are happy with IE. So what? I'm not. It has lots of security holes - I care. It doesn't comply completely to W3C standards -I care. Just because you don't care doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't either.
You don't want email? Pretty pictures? Fancy menus? That directly contradicts with what many users want. Many users do want pretty pictures and fancy menus, colorful icons, translucent and animated menus.
So how do you create a browser that pleases you AND those other users? You can't. If you put configuration options in your app, people will complain about "bloat", "UI clutter", "bad defaults", "too complex", etc. If you don't, people will complain about lack of options and all the eyecandy.
In summary: whatever you do, it's always wrong. Building a browser that pleases everybody is significantly more complex, because you have to invent a mind-reading system.
Perhaps it's just me, but sounds an awful lot like the OpenDoc project on the Mac many years ago. And my memory vaguely suggests many other functionality-oriented mix-n-match projects around that time.
Always seemed like a good idea that was ahead of its time...
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
However, it's a little more usable in this laptop than mozilla itself."
I have been using mozilla on my amd 550 k6, 64mb ram and it is sloooooooooow. Tried Phoenix last night at it is lightning fast in comparison. I love phoenix!
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57805
Unfortunately, Phoenix is held back (speed wise) by several bugs/design choices in the Mozilla codebase.
Mozilla contains a bug, unresolved for AGES, in how it handles combo boxes (drop down boxes). Tabbing through a combo box causes cpu usage to peg... this is probably related to a bug that causes the browser to re-render the entire page every time the user interacts with a combo box. I use my browser at work, interacting with a large number of forms... tabbing over a simple Combo box with 'Yes' and 'No' as the choices causes the cursor to pause for half a second. Blech. This bug applies to Phoenix as well.
Switching between tabs is slow. I have not reviewed the code, but it seems that the browser needs to re-render the page every time you arrive at its tab. It does not store the previously rendered version in memory. Thus, switching between tabs is very slow.
The tabbing UI is inferior, IMO. I far prefer other tabbing UI's, particularly Crazy Browser. It is not the look of the UI, or how you interact with it... it is the circumstances of when it chooses to make a new tab, or not. Also, it still allows making new windows (which I hate), I would prefer it forced all new windows to be new tabs instead.
So, unfortunately, I am still stuck with CrazyBrowser (a tabbed browser that uses the IE rendering engine). It is not bad, but I would like to be able to switch to a Mozilla based browser... but until some of these problems are resolved, I cannot.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
I'm trying to switch from IE to Mozilla but I need to know one thing regarding secure ordering. If I'm ordering from a website, is it safe to use Mozilla or is it more secure to use IE?
It was supposed to be released today (Oct. 8), but it hasn't shown up on the ftps yet. Does anyone know if it was delayed or something?
Secure ordering online is a lot like "safe Sex"- you can minimize risk but can't get rid of it altogether. That being said- any browser (Mozilla included) that supports standard protocols e.g. https etc. should give you a fair degree of security whilst shopping. Mozilla won't compromise your security. You might compromise your own security (but that is a whole other topic).
I dont know where people get the idea that mozilla is big and/or slow. I use mozilla on all my linux and windows boxen. On windows (1.2 ghz Athlon) it runs faster than IE6 (which many window users think is the fastest browser) and it uses less memory and less disk space. As far as performance on my main linux machine (dual 533mhz Alpha) it seems to run even faster than in windows, so I don't see why anyone would complain about it being slow or big. I realize that there are faster browsers... Opera for example... but to get faster you have to sacrifice some functionality. I think Mozilla offers the best of both worlds. Speed + functionality.
It seems to have reduced the amount of thrashing for me.
Start - Settings - Control Panel - System.
Go to advanced. Click Performance. Go to Advanced, set memory usage to System Cache (rather than programs). On my work system, it's stopped over aggresively swapping programs to disk when I minimize them.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.