I can read and write in Traditional Chinese, so here's an interesting fact:
After you search for things--in Chinese--along the line of "Remember 6/4" , "destroy the communist party" or even just "six-four" (a common way to refer to the Tienanmen Square Massacre) on Baidu or Zhongsou, for the next few minutes the their servers will immediately drop your connection;-)
My bad actually, I talked to some folks and I don't believe you can actually take the government, or entities for that matter to small claims for the reason that small claims courts are not represented by lawyers, and there's no individual that you can call to the stand.
Being able to harvest/all/ of it is not the point; the important thing is to be able to harvest a reasonable amount of it with your effort you put in. Just doing this will give me a reasonable amount from/.:
I don't claim to know regex, and I had four beers. (No, it didn't take me one beer for each line *grin*) I am sure a lot of you out there can do a lot better than I did. But the point is, if I can get even 1% of all the obfuscated addresses out there, I am in pretty good shape.
OTOH, I totally hear you though: I don't bother with obfuscating addresses either. I make it unavailable if I can, or give out my mailblocks.com address.:-)
Out of curiosity: Since you're innocent, would it be possible to sue them in small claims court for damage, and perhaps for lost time and depreciation?
I am not sure if you can that; even if you are allowed to do that/and/ win, you can't get a whole lot from small claims, and the actual act of collection is also a bitch. But hey, it's better than nothing, right?
I am reading a lot of MS-bashing here. But let's take a look at some facts here:
Consider a pretty standard setup--the OS, plus ftpd and httpd--here's the count of errata advisory between M$ Win2k Server and RedHat 9:
Microsoft: 1, for the botched FrontPage Extension patch released in November. RedHat: 4, for the following: 1. Dec 2nd: Updated 2.4 kernel fixes privilege escalation security vulnerability RHSA-2003:392-05 2. Dec 16th: Updated lftp packages fix security vulnerability RHSA-2003:403-07 3. Dec 17th: Updated httpd packages fix Apache security vulnerabilities RHSA-2003:320-09 4. Dec 24th: Updated 2.4 kernel fixes various bugs RHBA-2003:394-08
Not to mention I will need to think about what to do when RH9 becomes EOL in April.
Interesting.
I am by no means by pro-MS here. If I have my way it'd be all qmail and publicfile. In fact, I don't have the balls to put my company's Exchange server directly on the 'net; I put it behind a RedHat box running perdition, and have qmail as the MX, behind an IOS IDS/FW.
Trust needs to be earned, and MS is slowly earning mine in the security front. I don't trust MS software enough to stick them directly on the Internet yet, but they did earn my trust to let Windows Update automatically sort things out: Not a glitch in the last 18 months.
The fact of a matter is, with a little clue as a admin, Windows can be made pretty secure. Being clueless, Linux can be made to be a big wad of swiss cheese.
We Linux and/. crowds--me included--can be an arrogant and blinded bunch. Sure, we can sit around bashing MS and fool ourselves on how insecure Windows is, but that doesn't accomplish anything. MS is catching up/fast/; that's fact. If we remain complacent, we can fall behind sooner than you think.
Now that you have the facts... Go ahead, mod me down.
(This post is really for the folks who haven't seen what exactly is home automation. Before I started doing this stuff I was completely unaware how mature that home automation industry is. The Pluto is a very-low-end system that doesn't do a whole lot, and the price really reflects that.)
While it is probably true that no other product integrates even 2 out of 5 of the home electronics systems, in the world of home automation and home integration, folks tends to pick the best-of-breed hardware and integrate them.
I can say this: I do this for a living.
For instance, one generally uses Vantage or Lutron for lighting or other high-voltage controls, Radionics and Pelco (among others) for fire/intrusion control. We can integrate with/any/ home entertainment/theater systems. We can integrate with climate control systems too, and along the way make it all web accessible. I work for a Crestron shop here, but many other folks uses AMX as well. It's pretty standard in this space.
The reality is that you can't do true home automation for $15K, or by yourself. Installing high-voltage, and sometimes low-voltage wiring, requires a electrician's license. (So you have to hire someone and pay labor.) Low-end AV equipment controlled by IR can be easily DIY, but to do the really cool stuff, there are many AV gears that can be controlled by RS-232. (Rotel and Meridian, for example.) With that you can get feedback of what the device is doing, and display that information on the UI; having that information helps you make much more reliable code too. (Try having your system find out the volume level on your IR-controlled AMP, for instance.)
The stuff is not cheap, but it's solid and well supported. We have projects between $200k to $2mil+, and there's no shortage of people who has that kind of money and are willing to spend it in their house. These systems has much better uptime than any of my Linux, OS X or Windows boxes; they are so stable, in fact, I heard that the BART in California uses Crestron and AMX as part of a redundant system.
You can go cheap too: If you just want an IR controlled home theater with existing IR controlled gears, RS-232 control of an alarm system, plus some minor goodies like web access, I can prob do it for less than $2000. (Notice no real wiring required here.) Start with a Crestron QM-RMC or MP2E.
Check out http://www.crestron.com/ and http://www.amx.com/
This is nothing new: Licenced materials had been sold for very low prices in China (including Hong Kong) in order to compete with priated materials, for many years.
Movies, for instance, or often released in the theater and as VCDs--on the same day--in order to combat black market VCDs taped from the theater. They are both VCDs: Both very affordable, no DRM either way, except these are high quality, and you get some nice printed materials along with it. So which one are you going to buy? Most folks I know over there don't bother with the priated stuff anymore. This is very, very effective combined with occasional raids of known pirate operations. Sure, you could do the dishonorable thing and make copies of your original VCD for your friends, but the movie houses would much prefer you rather than a movie pirarcy operation doing the work, for obvious reasons.
Now look at iTMS: Steve Job said explicitly in the keynote that iTMS/competes with/ pirated music. Sure, at the end of the day it's really a sales driver for the iPod, but consider the take-rate, I say it's working pretty well.
The revolution has begun.
Now, don't hold your breath waiting for cheap PS2/XBOX games any time soon in the US. There aren't really any competition against the licensed materials here.
Right, so is the case when two callers are ringing your phone at the same time. Luck of the draw, right?
Besides, why is it bad to have the caller sent to voicemail? Do you enjoy interruptions while you are trying to get something done? If you are actively transferring data w/ one of these things, you're actively doing something else.
I don't about you. When I'm done being busy with what I am doing, then they'll get a call back.
* This is nothing new in WA. Around 2000 we were shopping for an apartment in Issaquah, WA. There was a small ISP providing fibre-to-the curb service for comparable prices, with no bandwidth limits in a planned community. I cannot recall the community's name nor the ISP name, but for those who are in the area, take exit 17 on I-90, Northbound on SE Front St, Right on Issaquah-Fall City Rd., then take the first right (Black Nugget Rd.). Follow it all the way to the end and there it is.
* Without a doubt, the amount of bandwidth available for Internet-bound traffic is not going to be 100Mbps. But assuming they don't do QoS at the port level, having that kind of bandwidth to the curb will at least speed up P2P and gaming traffic within your neighborhood. You may also achieve better performance for certain applications than traditional DSL and cable services if the provider were to do QoS at the edge with something like this.
OWA is actually quite nice IMHO, especially if you are using IE under Windows. In my experience, it works reasonably well with Netscape/Mozilla, as well as Apple's KTHML-based Safari. However, before you switch to an all-webmail system, you ought to consider the following:
* Offline Access: If your organization, like ours, has a lot of travelling users, they will not be able to catch up on email while they are, for example, catching a flight. This can be mitigated with Mobile Information Server. (ActiveSync your PDA over the 'net before you get on the plane.) * Convenience: Checking email over the web is generally considered not as easy as checking it w/ a dedicated client. That's why many folks, like Yahoo!, no longer offer free POP3 services unless you pay up--because many people are willing to spend money for the convenience. Further, many users navigate to sites by typing in the URL in the "Start | Run" dialog box, which will cause them to inadverdently navigate out of their OWA client and thus stop new mail notification. * Security: Since you mentioned SSL... Many firewalls, for obvious reasons, cannot inspect traffic encapsulated in a SSL tunnel. So any application-level protocol protection provided by the firewall will be rendered useless. Example of this would be the Cisco PIX 515's "fixup" commands. * More security: Having OWA generally means that users can access your email system with non-company issued systems. You can secure your servers all day long, but a simple key logger on a non-company system can bring you down to your knees. Especially since many Windows shop does unified login user/pass w/ Active Directory.
That said though, I use OWA to check work email every night on my Mac when I make it home. It works fine. When implemented properly it's a great compliment to Outlook, but IMHO it's probably not suitable as a replacement of Outlook
This is more of a question out of ignorance, so please bear with me: The article compares the R9700 Pro to the OCS R9700 Pro Level3 SE with Unreal Tournament 2003. At 1600x1200, the results recorded were 81 and 101 FPS, respectively, higher with lower resolutions.
And then there's your monitor... unless you want to get quite spendy, there aren't many monitors that does 85Hz+ at 1600x1200.
May be I am completely wrong, but I thought the "refresh rate" of a monitor refers to how many times a second the screen is redrawn from top to bottom.
So, given my ficticious monitor can go 85Hz at 1600x1200, does it matter if my card dishes out 101fps all day long?
FWIW, I have about a little shy of 2300 songs here, all from CDs that I purchased since 1992'ish...
It's a very modest collection, even for one who doesn't download any music illegally at all. Even then, 2300 songs will play continuously without repeats for more than a week.
If someone would enlighten my ignorant mind: what do you actually do with 32000+ songs, which would play continuously for three months?
Heck, even my measly 5GB iPod holds more music than I can use.
It's perhaps off-topic, but are we collecting data for the sake of the collection? Does it matter if it'd take you three months--without sleep--to actually utilize the data?
As it is, I already have more music than I can actually listen to. For fellow legitimate music users, 32000 songs can easily outlast their lifetime, perhaps the MP3 format, and certainly iTunes'.
So, does it really matter?
I guess it does if you are one of those folks who just download whatever's on kazaa/guntella/whatever today, but for the rest of us with honor, and some taste in music, it really doesn't. 32000 is more than we need.
Come on, how much are you actually going to be paying for sales tax on a lousy book or CD?
People who buy stuff online are interested in: 1) Convenience: So they don't have to run out just to get something that can wait. 2) Selection: Online retailers tends to carry a larger selection than local brick and mortor stores. 3) Experience: Some folks just don't like going to a store and be hassled by sales people. 4) Price: _Some_ online retailers have discounts deeper than any local stores, considering the sales tax or not.
Based on these three factors, people make their decisions. Sometimes I am willing to pay more to get something online and just tohave it delivered right onto my doorstep; my time is expensive. Notice how "price" is at the bottom of the list.
On the other hand, if it's something that you *really* need, say, a plunger when your toilet is clogged, you're going to go to the local store regardless and buy one. It doesn't matter if online retailers are giving away plungers all day long, if you need one, you need one.
Even with big-ticket items, like TVs, computers and such, you need to consider that the items you purchased will arrive at your residence, often with free delivery. Brick/mortor stores charges you for delivery too, you know. Besides, with shopping online, there's no heavy lifting, and pushy sales people trying to upsell me with something I don't need. Sounds like a plan to me.
The bottom line: for most folks, the few percent of sales tax is not going to make any difference.
Full Disclosure: I live in OR these days, so either way I am not paying any sales tax. But I know I didn't shop online more or less when I lived in WA...
IMHO tabs is probably one of the biggest UI blunders out there these days. Sure, it's all fun and games if you are running at 1600x1200, but most luser folks run at 1024x768. At that kind of resolution if you have more than handful of tabs in the same window, the tabs are crunched so closed together you can hardly read the title. So what's the point?
I don't see the point of this whole Windows-within-a-window deal. It's not like you can actually read anything besides the active tab anyway. If you have Safari's SnapBack, you're not going to need tabs to help you keep track of where you are.
Besides, if you bothered to read Apple's Safari page at all--or watched the keynote for that matter--you'll know that Safari is built for _speed_. Keep the Netscape/Mozilla-style bloat out.
Assuming you have a Windows shop... Read up on Active Directory, Group Policy and ZAP. It's all very well documented in either "Start:: Help" and the reskit.
Now if Mozilla--and OpenOffice.org for that matter--would come up w/ an MSI package, life would be much easier, and will definately promote their use in corporate settings.
Slashdot Mirror
I can read and write in Traditional Chinese, so here's an interesting fact:
;-)
After you search for things--in Chinese--along the line of "Remember 6/4" , "destroy the communist party" or even just "six-four" (a common way to refer to the Tienanmen Square Massacre) on Baidu or Zhongsou, for the next few minutes the their servers will immediately drop your connection
>> I stand corrected
:-)
>So those new orthopedic shoes are working out OK for you, then?
Yeah. Too bad my feet smell just as bad
My bad actually, I talked to some folks and I don't believe you can actually take the government, or entities for that matter to small claims for the reason that small claims courts are not represented by lawyers, and there's no individual that you can call to the stand.
:-)
I stand corrected
Being able to harvest /all/ of it is not the point; the important thing is to be able to harvest a reasonable amount of it with your effort you put in. Just doing this will give me a reasonable amount from /.:
/ $1/g;
:-)
s/[\`\'\"]//g;
s/[\-\_\s]*nospam[\-\_\s]*//gi;
s/\s+at\s+/@/i;
s/\s+dot\s+/\./gi;
s/([\@\.])+
I don't claim to know regex, and I had four beers. (No, it didn't take me one beer for each line *grin*) I am sure a lot of you out there can do a lot better than I did. But the point is, if I can get even 1% of all the obfuscated addresses out there, I am in pretty good shape.
OTOH, I totally hear you though: I don't bother with obfuscating addresses either. I make it unavailable if I can, or give out my mailblocks.com address.
Out of curiosity: Since you're innocent, would it be possible to sue them in small claims court for damage, and perhaps for lost time and depreciation?
/and/ win, you can't get a whole lot from small claims, and the actual act of collection is also a bitch. But hey, it's better than nothing, right?
I am not sure if you can that; even if you are allowed to do that
I am reading a lot of MS-bashing here. But let's take a look at some facts here:
/. crowds--me included--can be an arrogant and blinded bunch. Sure, we can sit around bashing MS and fool ourselves on how insecure Windows is, but that doesn't accomplish anything. MS is catching up /fast/; that's fact. If we remain complacent, we can fall behind sooner than you think.
Consider a pretty standard setup--the OS, plus ftpd and httpd--here's the count of errata advisory between M$ Win2k Server and RedHat 9:
Microsoft: 1, for the botched FrontPage Extension patch released in November.
RedHat: 4, for the following:
1. Dec 2nd: Updated 2.4 kernel fixes privilege escalation security vulnerability RHSA-2003:392-05
2. Dec 16th: Updated lftp packages fix security vulnerability RHSA-2003:403-07
3. Dec 17th: Updated httpd packages fix Apache security vulnerabilities RHSA-2003:320-09
4. Dec 24th: Updated 2.4 kernel fixes various bugs RHBA-2003:394-08
Not to mention I will need to think about what to do when RH9 becomes EOL in April.
Interesting.
I am by no means by pro-MS here. If I have my way it'd be all qmail and publicfile. In fact, I don't have the balls to put my company's Exchange server directly on the 'net; I put it behind a RedHat box running perdition, and have qmail as the MX, behind an IOS IDS/FW.
Trust needs to be earned, and MS is slowly earning mine in the security front. I don't trust MS software enough to stick them directly on the Internet yet, but they did earn my trust to let Windows Update automatically sort things out: Not a glitch in the last 18 months.
The fact of a matter is, with a little clue as a admin, Windows can be made pretty secure. Being clueless, Linux can be made to be a big wad of swiss cheese.
We Linux and
Now that you have the facts... Go ahead, mod me down.
(This post is really for the folks who haven't seen what exactly is home automation. Before I started doing this stuff I was completely unaware how mature that home automation industry is. The Pluto is a very-low-end system that doesn't do a whole lot, and the price really reflects that.)
/any/ home entertainment/theater systems. We can integrate with climate control systems too, and along the way make it all web accessible. I work for a Crestron shop here, but many other folks uses AMX as well. It's pretty standard in this space.
While it is probably true that no other product integrates even 2 out of 5 of the home electronics systems, in the world of home automation and home integration, folks tends to pick the best-of-breed hardware and integrate them.
I can say this: I do this for a living.
For instance, one generally uses Vantage or Lutron for lighting or other high-voltage controls, Radionics and Pelco (among others) for fire/intrusion control. We can integrate with
The reality is that you can't do true home automation for $15K, or by yourself. Installing high-voltage, and sometimes low-voltage wiring, requires a electrician's license. (So you have to hire someone and pay labor.) Low-end AV equipment controlled by IR can be easily DIY, but to do the really cool stuff, there are many AV gears that can be controlled by RS-232. (Rotel and Meridian, for example.) With that you can get feedback of what the device is doing, and display that information on the UI; having that information helps you make much more reliable code too. (Try having your system find out the volume level on your IR-controlled AMP, for instance.)
The stuff is not cheap, but it's solid and well supported. We have projects between $200k to $2mil+, and there's no shortage of people who has that kind of money and are willing to spend it in their house. These systems has much better uptime than any of my Linux, OS X or Windows boxes; they are so stable, in fact, I heard that the BART in California uses Crestron and AMX as part of a redundant system.
You can go cheap too: If you just want an IR controlled home theater with existing IR controlled gears, RS-232 control of an alarm system, plus some minor goodies like web access, I can prob do it for less than $2000. (Notice no real wiring required here.) Start with a Crestron QM-RMC or MP2E.
Check out http://www.crestron.com/ and http://www.amx.com/
This is nothing new: Licenced materials had been sold for very low prices in China (including Hong Kong) in order to compete with priated materials, for many years.
/competes with/ pirated music. Sure, at the end of the day it's really a sales driver for the iPod, but consider the take-rate, I say it's working pretty well.
Movies, for instance, or often released in the theater and as VCDs--on the same day--in order to combat black market VCDs taped from the theater. They are both VCDs: Both very affordable, no DRM either way, except these are high quality, and you get some nice printed materials along with it. So which one are you going to buy? Most folks I know over there don't bother with the priated stuff anymore. This is very, very effective combined with occasional raids of known pirate operations. Sure, you could do the dishonorable thing and make copies of your original VCD for your friends, but the movie houses would much prefer you rather than a movie pirarcy operation doing the work, for obvious reasons.
Now look at iTMS: Steve Job said explicitly in the keynote that iTMS
The revolution has begun.
Now, don't hold your breath waiting for cheap PS2/XBOX games any time soon in the US. There aren't really any competition against the licensed materials here.
Stone the heretics alltheweb.com, MSN or AOL!
:-)
Oh wait, I meant NYT and Slashdot
here
Right, so is the case when two callers are ringing your phone at the same time. Luck of the draw, right?
Besides, why is it bad to have the caller sent to voicemail? Do you enjoy interruptions while you are trying to get something done? If you are actively transferring data w/ one of these things, you're actively doing something else.
I don't about you. When I'm done being busy with what I am doing, then they'll get a call back.
Not quite, it only doesn't ring when the phone is actively sending and receiving data.
Just a couple unrelated observations:
* This is nothing new in WA. Around 2000 we were shopping for an apartment in Issaquah, WA. There was a small ISP providing fibre-to-the curb service for comparable prices, with no bandwidth limits in a planned community. I cannot recall the community's name nor the ISP name, but for those who are in the area, take exit 17 on I-90, Northbound on SE Front St, Right on Issaquah-Fall City Rd., then take the first right (Black Nugget Rd.). Follow it all the way to the end and there it is.
* Without a doubt, the amount of bandwidth available for Internet-bound traffic is not going to be 100Mbps. But assuming they don't do QoS at the port level, having that kind of bandwidth to the curb will at least speed up P2P and gaming traffic within your neighborhood. You may also achieve better performance for certain applications than traditional DSL and cable services if the provider were to do QoS at the edge with something like this.
OWA is actually quite nice IMHO, especially if you are using IE under Windows. In my experience, it works reasonably well with Netscape/Mozilla, as well as Apple's KTHML-based Safari. However, before you switch to an all-webmail system, you ought to consider the following:
* Offline Access: If your organization, like ours, has a lot of travelling users, they will not be able to catch up on email while they are, for example, catching a flight. This can be mitigated with Mobile Information Server. (ActiveSync your PDA over the 'net before you get on the plane.)
* Convenience: Checking email over the web is generally considered not as easy as checking it w/ a dedicated client. That's why many folks, like Yahoo!, no longer offer free POP3 services unless you pay up--because many people are willing to spend money for the convenience. Further, many users navigate to sites by typing in the URL in the "Start | Run" dialog box, which will cause them to inadverdently navigate out of their OWA client and thus stop new mail notification.
* Security: Since you mentioned SSL... Many firewalls, for obvious reasons, cannot inspect traffic encapsulated in a SSL tunnel. So any application-level protocol protection provided by the firewall will be rendered useless. Example of this would be the Cisco PIX 515's "fixup" commands.
* More security: Having OWA generally means that users can access your email system with non-company issued systems. You can secure your servers all day long, but a simple key logger on a non-company system can bring you down to your knees. Especially since many Windows shop does unified login user/pass w/ Active Directory.
That said though, I use OWA to check work email every night on my Mac when I make it home. It works fine. When implemented properly it's a great compliment to Outlook, but IMHO it's probably not suitable as a replacement of Outlook
This is more of a question out of ignorance, so please bear with me: The article compares the R9700 Pro to the OCS R9700 Pro Level3 SE with Unreal Tournament 2003. At 1600x1200, the results recorded were 81 and 101 FPS, respectively, higher with lower resolutions.
And then there's your monitor... unless you want to get quite spendy, there aren't many monitors that does 85Hz+ at 1600x1200.
May be I am completely wrong, but I thought the "refresh rate" of a monitor refers to how many times a second the screen is redrawn from top to bottom.
So, given my ficticious monitor can go 85Hz at 1600x1200, does it matter if my card dishes out 101fps all day long?
FWIW, I have about a little shy of 2300 songs here, all from CDs that I purchased since 1992'ish...
It's a very modest collection, even for one who doesn't download any music illegally at all. Even then, 2300 songs will play continuously without repeats for more than a week.
If someone would enlighten my ignorant mind: what do you actually do with 32000+ songs, which would play continuously for three months?
Heck, even my measly 5GB iPod holds more music than I can use.
It's perhaps off-topic, but are we collecting data for the sake of the collection? Does it matter if it'd take you three months--without sleep--to actually utilize the data?
As it is, I already have more music than I can actually listen to. For fellow legitimate music users, 32000 songs can easily outlast their lifetime, perhaps the MP3 format, and certainly iTunes'.
So, does it really matter?
I guess it does if you are one of those folks who just download whatever's on kazaa/guntella/whatever today, but for the rest of us with honor, and some taste in music, it really doesn't. 32000 is more than we need.
Come on, how much are you actually going to be paying for sales tax on a lousy book or CD?
People who buy stuff online are interested in:
1) Convenience: So they don't have to run out just to get something that can wait.
2) Selection: Online retailers tends to carry a larger selection than local brick and mortor stores.
3) Experience: Some folks just don't like going to a store and be hassled by sales people.
4) Price: _Some_ online retailers have discounts deeper than any local stores, considering the sales tax or not.
Based on these three factors, people make their decisions. Sometimes I am willing to pay more to get something online and just tohave it delivered right onto my doorstep; my time is expensive. Notice how "price" is at the bottom of the list.
On the other hand, if it's something that you *really* need, say, a plunger when your toilet is clogged, you're going to go to the local store regardless and buy one. It doesn't matter if online retailers are giving away plungers all day long, if you need one, you need one.
Even with big-ticket items, like TVs, computers and such, you need to consider that the items you purchased will arrive at your residence, often with free delivery. Brick/mortor stores charges you for delivery too, you know. Besides, with shopping online, there's no heavy lifting, and pushy sales people trying to upsell me with something I don't need. Sounds like a plan to me.
The bottom line: for most folks, the few percent of sales tax is not going to make any difference.
Full Disclosure: I live in OR these days, so either way I am not paying any sales tax. But I know I didn't shop online more or less when I lived in WA...
IMHO tabs is probably one of the biggest UI blunders out there these days. Sure, it's all fun and games if you are running at 1600x1200, but most luser folks run at 1024x768. At that kind of resolution if you have more than handful of tabs in the same window, the tabs are crunched so closed together you can hardly read the title. So what's the point?
I don't see the point of this whole Windows-within-a-window deal. It's not like you can actually read anything besides the active tab anyway. If you have Safari's SnapBack, you're not going to need tabs to help you keep track of where you are.
Besides, if you bothered to read Apple's Safari page at all--or watched the keynote for that matter--you'll know that Safari is built for _speed_. Keep the Netscape/Mozilla-style bloat out.
Assuming you have a Windows shop... Read up on Active Directory, Group Policy and ZAP. It's all very well documented in either "Start :: Help" and the reskit.
Now if Mozilla--and OpenOffice.org for that matter--would come up w/ an MSI package, life would be much easier, and will definately promote their use in corporate settings.