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Rolling Out Mozilla in an Organization?
jdclucidly asks: "I am a network administrator for a small non-profit (about 50 employees). I would like to roll Mozilla 1.2.1 out to all of our desktops. We don't have a single ghost image because the computers on site are too varied. Yes, I did my Googling. The source for the installer is just huge and mind boggling. Is there something like a Mozilla Administration Kit that will generate custom Mozilla installers? If not, would people on Slashdot be interested in starting a new project to make such a kit?" If you were going to deploy a "branded" version of Mozilla, company-wide, how would you do it, especially if you had to worry about a mixed OS environment?
I installed Mozilla on my machine using the stub installer and had it save all of the .XPI components to a folder. I went in and extracted the .XPI's and examined them. It seems possible to do these things but not without learning XUL, JavaScript, XML and Mozilla.org's own stuffings -- not to mention setting up a Visual C++/Cygwin compiling farm for every next Mozilla release. Can I:
"Here's what I want to do:
- Install everything but Quality Feedback Agent
- Set Mozilla as the default browser
- Disable 'Open Unrequested Windows' (kill pop-ups)
- Install Elveraldo's Crystal-Classic theme as default
- Set Google as the default search engine
- Set 'Georgia' as the default Serif font for Western and Unicode
- Enable HTTP Pipelining
- Enable FIPS internal cryptography
- Set toolbar to 'Pictures only'
- Set Home Page to my organization's intranet site
- Set start page to 'Blank page'
- Disable 'Hide the tab bar'
- Enable Middle-click for new tab
- Enable control+enter for new tab
- Default downloads to 'open a progress dialog'
- Disable Javascript and Plugins for Mail & News
- Enable quicklaunch
- Create an additional shortcut on the desktop and in quicklaunch that uses chrome/icons/mailnew.ico as it's source and points to 'mozilla.exe -mail'
I installed Mozilla on my machine using the stub installer and had it save all of the .XPI components to a folder. I went in and extracted the .XPI's and examined them. It seems possible to do these things but not without learning XUL, JavaScript, XML and Mozilla.org's own stuffings -- not to mention setting up a Visual C++/Cygwin compiling farm for every next Mozilla release. Can I:
- Directly modify the defaults/prefs/all.js file to incorporate my preference defaults above and then recompress the .XPI?
- Add to the installer Crystal-Classic.jar somehow? Where are those changes made?
- Make the installer NOT allow the user to change any of this?
- Make the installer create the above mentioned shortcut?"
You really want to lock your users from making any changes to the browser? I seriously doubt you will be able to do this (and even if you could, what would be the point?)
With apt being built for Linux, apt for OS X, I would start by putting together some perl scripts for Windows to work like apt. Then build packages for each OS and use a package repository to distribute them.
Nay! Times New Roman for everything!
just copy the directory, mozilla doesn't need registry entries.. it stores all its settings in some whacky xml files
See subject
THis is SOOOOOO easy. All you need to do is edit the prefs file to suit your needs. Then simply deploy the package in some sort of self extraction archive.
I regret to inform you that you are teh sux. Don't feel too bad, there are a lot of posts here claiming to be first, and you beat all those losers.
In the end, there could only be one first post. I happened to get it this time, but I wish you nothing but luck in your first posting carreer.
IMHO of course.
transmission_err
More accurately, it sounds like you're putting off managing your network properly. 50 machines - all with different software? Bollocks. I suspect you've just let the weeds grow.
Do you really think each bit of software should have it's own roll-out software? Obviously no - that's what there's network management software for.
i was quicker
Fix the 1.2.1 installer for Linux (fresh install for RH8.0, bad startup script with bad directories). Fix the conflict with Palm software for Windows.
And please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, create a check box to remove *all* tabbed browsing crap (it's still in rt-click!) for those of us who don't want it. Bleck.
I recommend Automate. It would get the job done and can be deployed over a network. Although it'll only work on windows machines. Alternatively a cheaper solution would be to copy over all the mozilla files and registry settings to each machine.
Unfortunately Phoenix nightlies have dropped the pretty theme that they had in 0.1 - 0.5. They have a new and ugly theme.
Its got eveything you want, and before you ask, yes it does tabs in version 3.1.
everyone is always praising phoenix, however, on my machine it uses more RAM (about 26MB compared to 20 for mozilla) it isn't noticably faster, and there isn't an option to ctrl+enter in the location bar to open a new tab, ctrl+enter in phoenix does the same as in IE (adds http://www. to the front and .com to the end of whatever is in the location bar) which is a nice shortcut, but I'm too addicted to ctrl+enter creating a new tab, so phoenix's usability suffers for me, and I don't get alot of speed increases anyway...
This is 100% the wrong way to go about things, bud. What you want to do is use something like Microsoft Systems Management Server, Veritas WinInstall, or Novell ZenWorks SnAPPShot to monitor the install on your install test-bed PC (you DO have one, don't you?), make all those oodles of changes you want to, then redistribute it identically to your clients. If you don't have these, I would buy one of the packages -- the money you spend will save you $$$ in man-hours trying to come up with a hackneyed, crappy homebrew solution in the long run. Once you start using these distribution apps, they will become your next best friend.
Make one install on your PC. Setup all of the preferences how you want them.
Copy the .mozilla directory (or whatever) to wherever you plan on installing this from. chmod a-w on it for *nix users, set permissions accordingly on it for Windows.
Put your .jar theme where it needs to be
Install on everyone else's PCs and just copy the preferences folder via a script or by hand.
Profit!
It such a small number of people, it should be painless to do it by hand anyways.
If you are running Windows as the standard within your company, don't do something dumb and introduce complexity by adding in another platform that you need to integrate and support. Go with IE. (Let the flames begin)
Just prohibit the use of Mozilla in your organization and then make sure employees have access to the Internet. They're bound to set it up themselves that way.
Rank comments and posts against each other at We-Rank.com
First of all, Mozilla doesn't understand UNC paths. If your GPO redirects %appdata%, you're screwed. Quit now. The mozilla registry.dat file goes in %appdata%\mozilla and if %appdata% is in a UNC of DFS share, it won't find it.
Then ... if you allow users to create profiles in the default location, below %appdata%\mozilla, expect profiles to go missing. Windows has a nasty habit of duplicating roaming profiles, like profiles\user, profiles\user.domain, profiles\user.domain.000, etc... Since your profile location is a hardcoded path in registry.dat, Mozilla will find it, but will try to load the profile in the stale profile location. If that doesn't exist now, it'll throw up a profile manager asking you to recreate one.
The solution to above is to create the profile manually via a command like:
That will move the bulk of the profile (except registry.dat) to a fixed location out of the roaming profile.
For a lot more detail and my rant, read bug #162025, comment #28.
We have done a lot to get it working finally, including some logon vbscripts to create the profiles, repair prefs.js file, have some mandatory prefs.js entries that are replaced during logon if user changes them (like home page for us), etc...
We've been through hell but think we finally have it licked by working around mozilla bugs. We intend to post a page on our experiences, but not in the next 12 hours (the effective life of a slashdot story)
When it's ready, I'll e-mail you or feel free to contact me if you want the scripts as they stand now (we are still debugging some things).
Actually, I was the first. See that holy carp! post?
I regret to inform you that you are also the sux.
Learn the difference between then and than, by the way.
Well, I always wanted to post one of these MPU posts. It seems I finally found the really right post.
Save yourself the time and the effort. Mozilla is crap and your staff will only complain that they can't use IE.
Been there, done that.
I've had Phoenix crash repeatedly, on a regular basis since 0.5 came out. Very annoying. Neither IE 6 nor Mozilla 1.0.2 exhibit this behavior.
How about the mozilla.org CCK? Or if it isn't sufficiently advanced, use Netscape's CCK instead.
/mike
The CCKs exist to do exactly what you want - customize the browser. Why reinvent the wheel?
This is where some basic research could have helped you before posting yet another lame Ask Slashdot question. I find Google works well for that sort of thing. Perhaps you could also start at Mozilla.org's project pages. RTFM, etc, etc, etc.
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
I don't know of any way you can lock the prefs window (apart from removing it from the menu's.).
Guy asks for info on how to *autoinstall* Mozilla on 50 machines. Somebody replies saying use Phoenix instead, *without* giving any input on autoinstalling. Is it that obvious how to autoinstall Phoenix?
What's the point of forcing all the employees to set their user preferences to settings that are based soley on your own personal opinions?
well dude,
you're running a very strange and different setup to the rest of the world.
Ctrl+t opens a new tab BTW.
Phoenix is the coolest thing since sliced bread in this small non-technical office.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
or at least for the poster, who is the one being payed for his time.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Ah, I used to do something similar at the Department of Networking Services & Information Technologies, at the University of Chicago, were I used to work. Setup up webkiosks and the like for the campus.
Your probably already know this, but I'll point out the obvious:
1. Set up a Ghost server for yourself. Maybe even look at a copy of Alteris LabExpert.
2. Backup often.
3. Set yourself a timeline with mile markers. Give yourself a few months, so you don't pull out your hair or have a mental break down. Plan a reasonable project timeline, such as 3 months.
4. Set up testing workstations. Get all of your networking issues out of the way before you start on Mozilla. TCP/IP or other protocol stacks should already be installed. All device drivers should already be installed.
5. Take the list which you've already made, and make the changes to the box. When you get the change to work, backup the box with your image server. Keep detailed notes of what you've just accomplished.
6. Repeat step 5 until all items are completed.
7. When step 6 is completed, backup the workstation, diff the image if needed, and push it onto workstations of similar hardware configuration. Either package the image as an application (tar, zip), an application image (ZenWorks, Active Directory resource, Ghost, etc), or an operating system image (SMS, Alteris, Ghost).
Once you get into the groove of the project, it'll go quickly.
Sorry for stating the obvious, but you're talking about a fairly complex network engineering task. Don't expect it to happen next week or even next month. Just make sure you have an imaging server and that you take good notes, and the project will go fine.
First install mozilla on one machine. Then obtain the source, find where the signal handler(i think that is what it is called) for the meny ithem edit->preferences is set and comment that out, compile. Now you should have a version of mozilla that the user cannot configure.
Use the first installation(full version) to generate all the files that contain the settings you want for each machine. And copy them to each machine after installing the crippled mozilla on them.
You should be able to achiave your goals like this, if each machine requires uniqe settings(email and such) then you have some work to do, but it should'nt be impossible.
FRA: STFU GTFO
Comparing Phoenix 0.5 and Mozilla 1.2.1 w/o quick launch and considering memory use with blank pages only, Moz's tab handling is slightly better while Phoenix beats Moz at both base mem usage and memory per new browser windows.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Since neither of our claims can be proven, there can be no resolution.
I propose a mutual suicide.
Agreed?
that is pretty funny no penis man!
I also reccomend Phoenix. I use it at work where I am forced to use a WinDoze box and can't run Knoqueror. It takes a while for it to load but has all of the good features of Mozilla without the kitchen sink problem.
"I checked the CCK Project page at Mozilla.org -- it appears to be pretty inactive. I checked out the Netscape 7 CCK, which is pretty robust but doesn't do everything I want and it's proprietary -- plus, I don't want all the NS7 proprietary crap on my network. "
What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
Well,
;)
- tabbed browsing, and
- type-ahead find
- decent mail client built in (now with spam filtering, albeit early stages)
- image blocking built in
And nearly 100 other things that Mozilla has but IE does not.
I complain when I'm stuck at a computer with nothing better than IE.
However, since you're trolling, I'll stop here
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I'll ignore for a moment that this is actually a useful post and, to the point, seems to be what the author was asking for, but modding it as redundant? No one else has even mentioned it further down the thread, let alone provide links and explain. I'd even give you flamebait (but that would be pretty weak). Geez folks. I hope I pick this one up in metamod.
my summer job (Java programming) has MSIE loading an "insider" page for the company that took 5 minutes to load and required a login.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
I like Phoenix because I'm forced to switch between browsers a lot (thanks to my job). All the shortcut keys are similar between IE and Phoenix (unlike Mozilla). Alt-D puts me in the address bar (Ctrl-L in Moz), Shift-Click opens in a new window, and best of all, Ctrl-Enter in the address bar, as you said, works just like in IE. The consistency is handy if you use two different browser at the same time (like havign IE at home and Phoenix at work, as I imagine many of your employees will have).
"As you can imagine, doing this on 50 computers (and making sure I got each of these) would be quite tedious. Are, there others out there that want to do the same thing. I checked the Mozilla newgroups. I checked the CCK Project page at Mozilla.org -- it appears to be pretty inactive. I checked out the Netscape 7 CCK, which is pretty robust but doesn't do everything I want and it's proprietary -- plus, I don't want all the NS7 proprietary crap on my network. "
From the article (just scroll up! - he even provided the same links). So, basically you told him to use exactly what he looked at and decided wouldn't suit his needs. Sorry.
Except he wants all of the mozilla features, not just the browser. Did you even read the text?
You knew what it was, and you bit anyway.
Granted it's not the Information workers computer in the sense of ownership, but the Environment belongs to him/her.
Being comfortable with your machine makes you more productive. Remember that your time is at the low end of the scale compared to most of the information workers you are employed to serve.
Help fight continental drift.
Hm, that won't help him at all
One great thing about phoenix is that you DON'T have to use any keybord shortcuts, it's all in the wrist! Mouse gestures is faster, and ain't that hard to learn.
I never use ctrl+t to open a new tab, I just hold my middle button and pull upwards!
Most of them do. They tend to be more file system dependent than OS dependent. Basically, they all just write 1s and 0s to a hard disk. The question is whether they have the right algorithm to write the 1s and 0s so that the OS can read it correctly.
That, and the fact that most of them can actually handle an entire OS image.
Of course, some solutions work better than others...
Whaddaya gonna do, sheriff, giggle uncontrollably when you delete the pic of my kid that I have tiled all over the desktop? Gives you a little thrill to balance the suffering you get as another societal castaway, right?
Stop living the cliche.
there isn't an option to ctrl+enter in the location bar to open a new tab, ctrl+enter in phoenix does the same as in IE (adds http://www. to the front and .com to the end of whatever is in the location bar)
Alt + Enter in the location bar in Phoenix opens a new tab.
Ya I know, it isn't mozilla but she was kinda hot, and had really tasty yobes...
...
First liquor her up good on Mickey's big mouths, they're so frothy, it's like you can taste old Milwaukee in the foam.
Then put on some Floyd, or CCR, or whaterver you want. When she gets all hot take off her shirt. You can do it yourself or have her do it, then "push it out" to her. She'll do everything, even that little spinny thing
Thte only thing that costs money in this solution is the Mickey's (if she doesn't have 'em in her fridge), other than that it's all free.
Just as (-1 Offtopic) as the parent.
-dameron
Knee, meet Jerk. Jerk, meet Knee. Apparently neither Vallon nor his 3 or 4 moderators bothered to read the freaking question. The IT guy specifically wants to use the mail client as well as the browser, and probably NNTP too.
Just because Phoenix is small and 1337 doesn't mean it's the answer to world peace, minty fresh breath, or every question that contains the word "Mozilla".
Let's use synergy!
They changed the + functionality in I believe v0.4.
But...
+ does what you are looking for.
I stayed with v0.3 until I figured out that the functionality was still there and I just didn't know where it was anymore.
Although I'm using Chimera now.
How is that offtopic? The things the guy is asking for just isn't availiable with mozilla without jumping hoops through source code. The submitter sounds like a sysadmin and not a coder and probably doesn't want to learn C++ to customize his browser.
All I did was *suggested* that he gave it a try. It was ontopic despite what YOU think and judging from your past comments I think you just made that comment because of some deep felt M$ resentment.
You should never let your personal opinions get in the way of getting a task accomplished unless there is a moral dilmena contained within the solution. Arguably there might be a moral dilema in using IEAK, but getting his solution deployed quickly might actually outweigh any moral obligations he might feel.
As one COO put it to me once, it's just software, pick any of them.
Just open mozilla.dmg, and drag Mozilla from the Mozilla 1.2 drive to the applications folder! (Just a gentle reminder that not everyone runs Windows. :)
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Being the M$ lowlife that I am, I can only recommend something for your rollout on Windows-based clients.
I recommend using InstallRite by Epsilon Squared Inc. to automate installation of any application on multiple PCs with different hardware and software configurations.
It's easy to use and the documentation is good, IMHO. A big plus is that it is Freeware. Checking it out might be beneficial to you.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
Damn it! you would think that if you select "Plain Text" it would replace the <>'s
;)
But then again, maybe that's what that preview button is for...
They changed the <CTRL>+<ENTER> functionality in I believe v0.4.
But...
<ALT>+<ENTER> does what you are looking for.
I stayed with v0.3 until I figured out that the functionality was still there and I just didn't know where it was anymore.
Although I'm using Chimera now.
Phoenix development has died. Hyatt is now working on Safaria full time(he couldn't be happier), Blake(high schooler busy with getting ready for college) is MIA and Asa as usual doesn't comment on such things even when they seem grim. It looks like Phoenix as a project is dying/dead. No work has been done on Phoenix since December, and a critical bug has prevented anyone from using themes/extensions with new nightly versions since 12/28. This most basic bug pretty much shows the state of the project and how the developers involved have either a)lost interest or b) simply moved on. I know Blake had talked how eventually even he would get bored and move on(let any dev would), but it would have been nice if he had at least given some sort of warning.
Also the Mozilla development staff has been axed as well, so it too has slowed down at a very critical time when there have been a ton of regressions.
I'm a big fan of Mozilla(its all I use), so I hate to say these things which some people will undoubtably call FUD. But its not FUD and if you follow the project closely you'll know I'm not making this stuff up. Right now Mozilla is going through a very tough time and I really hope some new blood can come in to save it.
You'll excuse me for being a coward and not signing my name, but sorry that the way this has to be.
It's not Mozilla, but it's sure as shit a good comparison, and it'll come in handy when this guy realizes that Mozilla is too much of a risk and a pain in the ass. If I had mod points, I'd mod up the parent.
/. It's all about how much of an OSS zealot you are. Nice "community", huh?
Oh yeah, and about those mod points... karma is irrelevant on
As an employee, it's not "your computer". It's the property of the company. I wish more end users would remember that. "Why are you messing with *my* computer? I've got it just the way I like it!" Sorry. Pink fonts in Monotype Corsiva on a light blue background makes it tough for me to troubleshoot. Don't put your kid's picture up as wallpaper (less of a gripe, I don't really care, but give an inch...). Don't install the "little program" you brought from home.
Those machines are also not there for the IT staff to use for some kind of power trip. Those machines are there to provide value to the company, which they presumably do when the users are working on them, not you. If the customizations they do make them work more effectively (translation: more motivated), that is good for the company. Certainly if they install viruses and stuff that creates trouble you need to take action, but the whining about text and background images is pathetic.
Somehow I thought that kind of tayloristic management (your desktop will show in 0.04 seconds faster if you don't have a background image) became almost extinct long ago. If you treat people like machines, they also react very cynical - and do as little work as possible without getting fired. Since there's an economic downturn I guess people will stick around - but if all your best men leave when it starts going up, I can't say I'm surprised. I wouldn't want to stick around at least...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I really doubt mouse gestures are faster, because I like to keep my hands on the keyboard always, I don't normally have a hand on the mouse... moving my hand over to the mouse and back again is much slower than a 2 key combination..
That's what they said about IE when it came out too.
Also, if by "standard" you mean "popular", then you may be right. But do not confuse this with actual Standards put forth by a Standards Body.
I also have issues with Phoenix. I do find that the load time is much improved compared to mozilla, but essential XUL improvements like multizilla, optimoz and bannerblind never install properly. The UI elements never appear and they never function even though the installer says that they were successful. What gives?
Seriously, are you just a troll?
I don't understand you sometimes.
I live in a giant bucket.
How dare you!
I'd rather spend thousands of hours searching the Internet, getting trolled on IRC and posting Ask Slashdot articles rather than going out a buying a program that'd work off hand!! How dare you consider me a business conscience person! My whole NETWORK is home brew. Now all I need to do is write every single Microsoft program in existance as a huge hack in Xfree86 and I'll be finished!
THEN WHO'LL GET THE LAST LAUGH AHHAHAHHAHAHHA
OPERA?!?! Here's another chance to plug my favorate browser...
The Opera Composer allows sysadmins such as yourself to make a custom installer with almost all the features you wanted. That, and you get pretty much everything you need with the newest Opera 7 (MUCH better CSS and general everything complience).
Try it out, you might just want Opera instead of Mozilla.
What, you just said you are going to use Mozilla? You will trust our company security to some FREEWARE when Microsoft has made security the company's first priority for the whole year??? Right here I have a resume of a Visual Basic programmer who wants to migrate our e-commerce server to IIS, SQL server and server-side VBSCript, using Microsoft passport security architecture. I think I would give him a call. Certainly PROPRIETORY SOFTWARE is better than all the FREE-WARE you installed on our network...
--honestly, I don't get it. I'm not dissing the IT fellow here and the various technical solutions offered, but really, this is killing flies with a radar aimed howitzer. Why does this remind me of rube goldberg and the amazing confusitron? 50 desktops? That's all? Is this "I'm the IT guy and need to justify my job"? You have paid employees who really are sitting in front of computers and can't find "mozilla.org" and download and install the appropriate os stable version?
interoffice dead trees memo -> "go here, click there, install, please adjust these settings for security purposes-that is all, you have been ordereth by the IT god" then follow through with some random checks on the javascript being turned off and etc. done. Go on to important work.
I am NOT trolling, just seriously under employed and wondering why so many tards got jobs sitting in front of computers. And if they (the various 50 humans connected to the machines) aren't trusted enough to follow incredibly easy instructions, then fire them, case closed, hire people who can. There's a plethora of unemployed people out there who would LOVE any job at all and wouldn't mind following a simple work related order like "please use this browser in the office, it's so we can standardize and work better together, and etc, whatever, etc".
that's my technical solution.
Old story, it might be henry ford, I disremember now so I'll hack it, it will work anyway. Early assembly line. Some machine was a pain to run awkward controls on the wrong side. There's a similar machine on each side of the line, does the same task. The boss notices all these people struggling, calls in the engineers. Engineers being engineers, they come up with their versions of the amazing confusitron. Henry Ford walks by, says "put right handed guys on this side of the line, left handed on the other, then they can use the machines easily".
There's mechanical engineering, IT solutions, then this hard to describe but extremely useful phenomenon called "common sense".
-
Stability for a production environment, which Moz 1.2.1 has. Phoenix is still alpha, and not very actively developed at the moment. Seems the developers have other things on their minds (safaris, schools
...) -
He has a mixed environment. He may have architectures which Phoenix does not support (it is MS Windows and Linux/Intel only.)
-
All components, in particular Mail & News. Phoenix is browser only.
Mozilla 1.2.1 seems a good choice to me, maybe 1.3a or a carefully chosen nightly could be considered.Beonex is a consulting company working on this very issue. They have the start of roaming profile support working in mozilla, and create thier own browser Beonex communicator for this purpose.
Check out this bug on bugzilla where the start of roaming profile code exists for your compiling and testing pleasure. roaming profile setup IMHO is the way to go if folks use at different machines at different times. Outside of what's in the works...for now, I'd manually configure one for each platform and copy the folder over. Several different XPI's can be rolled into one, but it does take some hacking skills.
Later this year, Hopefully, roaming will be up and running in Mozilla and with that bwill likely come some nice deployment tools.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
At my high school they serve Mozilla across the network. It seems to work pretty well, and they control the things that you seem to want control over. Sorry I can't provide more technical details; my experience with the system pretty much extends to trying to get past the swear-word censorware. Anyway, server-side deployment might be something to look into.
-- Nerds on toast in the new millenium
"The things the guy is asking for just isn't availiable with mozilla without jumping hoops through source code."
Liar. It certainly is possible to do it without messing with code.
"Arguably there might be a moral dilema in using IEAK, but getting his solution deployed quickly might actually outweigh any moral obligations he might feel."
If you are able to sell your moral convictions then you never had them in the first place.
War is necrophilia.
If all your users use Windows then why do you need to switch them? I am using mozilla to type this and its a great browser but alot of websites send my "connection refused" errors because I do not use IE. It takes alot of man hours and hassle to upgrade all the users not to mention can cause complaints if your users recieve the same error messages that I do on a few sites.
I know Microsoft is a bully and want to prevent users from switching since IE is free and comes standard with every computer, but there really is inertia that locks people in.
You have to ask yourself time is it really worth it to switch them? And also what benefits will it bring to your organization.
http://saveie6.com/
Exactly! WTF exactly is wrong with Mozilla? I tried phoenix and got the same results:mozilla loads in 4 secs, phoenix loads in 3-big fat hairy wet whoop-de-doo. Rendering isn't noticably faster either. When you have a system with 256 or 512 MB of RAM whether an app uses 20 or 26 MB is academic. I just don't know what the big deal is.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The best part is when he suggested "walking from station to station."
No it is! My Computer....it tells me so.
Just look in the "Top-Left" corner of the screen.
You will find a picture of a computer and it says "My Computer".
Therefor it is. My Computer!...
--meh--
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Then you're sure to stay non-profit, especially with such a control freak as a sysadmin.
BTW, using "google" as a verb does not make you cool, nor does it make you a better sysadmin. Speaking proper english, however, will make you appear more intelligent, even if you're not.
You fucking tool. This has to be my favorite line in your resume!
... sounds good - you've got the job!
> I learn new programs and skills very rapidly
Oh, ok
Ass.
remember to change the damn default splash screen. It'll put any non-geek totally off it. You may as well install the IE skin too, so they'll think it's Internet Explorer & not complain.
Assuming you are a UNIX/Linux environment:
:0 from one of the "Terminal Servers". Set up ssh with authorization keys to avoid the need for passwords, then use ssh to remotely execute Mozilla:
Server-side:
I would set up the needed configuration(s) on one server. Then I would set up a group of "Terminal Servers" that use NFS to mount the custom config(s) and needed binaries on the first server.
Client-side:
Set up all the clients to allow connections to display
ssh "mozilla --display=client-ip:0"
This command could be set up as an icon on the gnome-panel so the user only needs to click on a button to launch Mozilla.
Just a few ideas anyway...
Un-news
The control of the desktop is core to many things in the enterprise. Companies are legally and financially responsible for everything that happens on, comes from, or comes into that PC in your cube. Because of this (and a litigeous society), the end user has no rights to his PC at all (in fact the end user has quite a few responsibilities).
Some graphic examples: employee ignores warnings of the day and opens that attachment (Code Red infection, firings, two lawsuits), employees (almost 100) keep installing Gator and webshots (eating bandwidth, causing security violations to HIPAA, etc.) so company switches to Citrix based desktops and thin clients, employees install unlicensed software and during Microsoft audit is discovered (loss of government contract, lots of firings, one federal arrest, lots and lots of fines, bankrupt business), etc.
So this is a very big deal.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Exactly. He's never been in IT. You can't just "walk workstation to workstation" installing software willy nilly. And you don't do it unless you have a *damn* good reason to.
Tech: "Bob, this is Joe Schmoe in IT, I need to install something on your machine."
Bob: "I didn't call you guys. There's nothing wrong with my computer."
Tech: "Well, you see, Microsoft is evil. I have to install Mozilla on your box this afternoon."
Bob: "Who the hell is this? What the hell is Godzilla? Who's your boss? I don't have time for this shit. Talk to my boss if you want to touch my machine. Then, send me an email, and I'll try to remember to leave you my machine when I go on vacation in December. But if a single file is missing, I'll have your ass."
There are 50 machines in this scenario. 50 machines. Fifty. If you can't imagine installing 50 pieces of business software in an afternoon, just pretend it's counterstrike and it should become clear.
Yeah, the open source/closed minds groupthink freaks would never let anyone whine on and on in 1900 posts!
I'd be using cfengine (or something similar) to manage something that size. cfengine claims to be able to deal with Windows NT as well as Unix. I only discovered it a few months ago, so I'm still in the planning stages for our network (which is all Unix anyway), but hopefully something like that will be useful.
:).
http://pikt.uchicago.edu/pikt/other.html
Then again, cfengine might take a while to roll out
Rollong out Mozilla in an office environment isn;t all that tricky. I've done it myself...OpenOffice, Samba, Mozilla etc...all running under the Ninnle ditribution of Linux, which contains tools for doing exactly this sort of thing. Everybody in the office is satisfied, and many are planning to switch to Ninnle at home too...fortunately, I have the ISO's...
The question has interesting aspects where it relates to software management on the desktop. But it falls terribly short on reason. Why would you replace the user's prefered browser with your idea of what is right? Some may already have Moz on the desk, but I bet most will hate you for replacing IE. Have you nothing better to do than push out a browser (and IMHO a bad one) to the desktop? Surely there are more pressing issues for your IT shop to address.
www.jmagar.com
-
Well, I was aiming at being funny, but I gues0s you missed that. It -is- offtopic and insulting to assume that the original poster would care to listen to suggestions for what he -might- decide to do. Let's assume he's the professional he claims to be, and has the authority from his organization to pursue the path he's on.
He's made his decision, and from his specifics about his Mozilla config it's clear he and his company have spent a lot of time planning the migration. There are plenty of people here who are willing to help him do what he wants to do.
You should never let your personal opinions get in the way of getting a task accomplished unless there is a moral dilmena contained within the solution..
Hrmmm. We all know that IE represents significant security risk, yet we keep using it because is is so convenient... No moral ambiguity there...
It was ontopic despite what YOU think and judging from your past comments I think you just made that comment because of some deep felt M$ resentment.
What, like MS killed my mom or something??? No, I find MS products useful for some things, but would I roll a MS solution out for a non-profit??? No. Hell, there are ethical problems with proving -any- MS "solution" to non-profit organizations, but I won't go into that now.
I didn't intend to be mean, but there are so many MS trolls posting here these days I couldn't resist.
-dameron
My solution to power drunk IT drones was simple, I brought my system disks from home and reinstalled the system to my liking. After I did that a few times, they stopped f'ing with my computer and started asking before they made changes. The biggest problem I have with power drunk IT drones is they forget who they work for. The user brings in the money that pays for their jobs. No user, no job. And sometimes, yes sometimes, the user has a better clue on how the user does his work.
This is pretty typical: in order to get even the simplest task done on Windows, the usual answer is: get another software package.
the money you spend will save you $$$ in man-hours trying
First, you are going to spend many man hours getting your manager to approve the purchase and order the applications. Then you are going to spend many more man hours installing them. Then you are going to spend many man hours trying to figure them out. Then you are going to spend even more man hours fiddling around with them trying to package up Mozilla. Then, you still need to figure out how to get the packages themselves or the client packages for those packages onto the clients. Then, if everything goes really well, you may be ready to install the software.
And when some major software upgrade comes from Microsoft or these vendors, you can start pretty much from square one.
That's of course assuming that those packages are completely bug free. More than likely, they will interact in some unknown way with some other software package and mess up something or other.
hackneyed, crappy homebrew solution in the long run
Professional chefs use a couple of knives to get the job done: they are reliable, predictable, simple, and efficient. Amateurs run out and buy every kitchen appliance under the sun, hoping to compensate with appliances for skills that they lack. It's no different with system management: if you don't know what you are doing, your answer is going to be: "oh, just buy another piece of software".
Windows, unfortunately, doesn't ship with any knives, but with Cygwin and Perl, you can get by. System management on Windows still like preparing a banquet in a kitchenette, but you don't need to make the effort even harder by stuffing the kitchenette full with useless junk.
Mozilla runs on FreeBSD too.
compile.
It costs over $1,000 to compile Mozilla for Win32 with optimizations because of bug 134113 that prevents compiling Mozilla for Win32 using MinGW (GCC for Windows) rather than Microsoft Visual Studio.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If you set the focus on the address bar and type a url, hit control+enter (or maybe alt+enter), it will open in a new tab.
The ctrl-enter functionality in Phoenix is precisely the reason that I don't use Mozilla.
.com for you (and yes, I do know about the patch).
I can't stand Mozilla not being able to automatically enter www.
BTW, Alt-Enter opens the URL in a new tab in Phoenix.
1. Go to download page: http://www.mozilla.org/releases/
2. Download the 'zipfile' (not
3. Unzip zip file to say c:\moz12
4. Run mozilla locally to update preferences
5. Copy directory to all machines the organization
6. Copy preferences file to target machines. (This step is tricky as the location of the preferences file is not easy to locate or copy to).
nuclear presidential echelon assassination encryption virulent strain
Whizzmo
" Now thats not really accurate, is it? Sure, the original poster ovev stated in that C++ isn't likely, but it seems very likely that there will be editing of config files, manual tweaking of preferences files, and probably a bit of scripting to make this work. If what the original guy wanted was readily available, he wouldn't be posting the question to Slashdot, would he?"
No he was lying. He said you needed to mess with the C code and recompile. That was a lie and he/she is a liar.
" I think the bigger issue here is why doesn't the Mozilla project have a better Administrators toolkit that is routinely kept up to date? Its a pretty big oversight as Mozilla moves more from the geeks desktop to the corporate multi-platform environment. "
Because nobody hasn't gotten around to writing it yet. Why don't you pitch in and start. Up to now the mozilla folks have been working on little things like speed and features. Eventually they will start worrying about the "enterprise" user.
" Hopefully this whole article will spur development by the core Mozilla team and get them moving towards better customization+deployment as a defacto-part of Mozilla, just like IE."
I would say that Moz already has IE beat in that regard because it does not spew itself all over the hard drive and requires minimal install. Just install, customize and zip it up. A simple VB script ought to take care of most situations handily. Again something you can pitch in and help with. Get going and jump on in, here is a big opportunity to make an impact.
War is necrophilia.
Wow, people are really lazy. Not just you, the sentiment on this thread is that phoenix is better because you can hit ctrl+enter to add 'www.' and '.com' to whatever you type. I can't belive that anyone would actually choose their browser based on typing in 4 simple characters (most sites don't even require you to type in 'www.') Not to mention the many sites that use .net or .org.
I mean, there are reasons that phoenix is better. (Smaller less memmory usage, faster) but ctrl+enter is not one.
You did that at any of the places I worked for and you'd be fired so fast your head would spin. Rebuilding the machine with your own system disks is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to start.
Assclown.
You must reboot your computer for this change to take effect.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I use Phoenix and I click the middle button to open a link in a new tab. No mouse gestures. It's all in the wrist.
And it's slightly more convenient than Opera's Ctrl-Shift-Click.
1.2.1 has a serious bug that causes some users to hang the browser due to problems with the fastload code. I would not recommend that you use 1.2.1 as the basis for a company rollout. I wish I could recommend it, because it has a lot to offer, but for "typical" end users, you will experience significant grief. Sorry. Let 1.3 bake for a while and then consider that as your target.
The funny thing is that I got the IT drone fired... Let's just say my comment that the IT drones don't have a job without me, and that I might have a better idea of how to do my job then the IT drones, resonated with management. It was an argument that went all the way to the VPs. And I am proud to say I won.
Bug 158323: Mass Profile Migration Utility For Server Admins
If we could covert all of our Netscape Profiles from 4.x to 7.0 all at once it would be a real help in switching to mozilla.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Take a look at Ximian's Red Carpet products. Create an rpm to apply all these changes to the basic Mozilla install and you're set.
Talk to my boss if you want to touch my machine. Then, send me an email, and I'll try to remember to leave you my machine when I go on vacation in December. But if a single file is missing, I'll have your ass.
It's not his machine. It's the companys. Installing software throughout an organization is the job of the IT dept, and it's not done willy nilly. If you don't like the software that the company supplies to you on thier computer, then find another job.
Thanks.
D00D SKr00 aLL u fAgZ WiND0Wz are The GAY u aLL sUx0r!!!!!
Truly sad. Your actions in my company would have resulted in serious reprimand and rightly so.
1. By installing your personal system software on a company workstation you subjected yourself and the company to possible copyright infringement. You do know it's illegal to copy software don't you?
2. You created a security risk to the company.
A workstation on a corporate network is not like a home computer. Your actions have the potential to disrupt the work of everyone connected to the network. Users must give up some customization to ensure stability and security. How much customization must be given up is debatable, but to permit or worse condone what you did is simply poor management.
I use a Dvorak layout with a QWERTY physical keyboard.
Our clueless local IT person (who follows checklists from the head office) has to ask permission before she messes with anything.
It also stops pushy colleagues who want to takeover your keyboard to show you something.
Only one question - how did they deal with the fact that the righties outnumber the lefties 9 to 1?
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
suck.
See subject.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What's so lazy about demanding convenience? After all, your computer's there to serve you, not the other way around.* Sometimes it's the attention to details like this URL shortcut that matters the most.
* Unless you're in Soviet Russia, I hear.
1) No copyright infringement. We had licences for all software that I installed. I even used the company's registration numbers.
2) There was no security risk because the computer was not on a network. (Plus it was a Mac, so viruses are virtually nonexistent.)
3) The company I work for does extensive R&D. Most of the staff computers have custom software installed, or commercial software with only handful of copies of the program in the entire company. The IT staff was trying to run the company as if everyone needed a standard installation of the OS plus Microsoft Office. Unfortunately, under their standard installation, the custom software that I needed would not run. IT's response, tough. So I circumvented them. When my actions were brought to management's attention, management did the right thing and directed the IT staff to do the right thing. Somebody even lost their job and it wasn't me.
As I pointed out to management at the time, IT works for the staff, not vice versa. The arrogance of IT drones who forget this is what causes most people to hate IT with a passion.
All user preferences are stored in prefs.js in the user profile (just like in Netscape 4). It would be very easy to write a script to set these values by directly editing this file. Of course, the user could always change the prefs later.
Well you are right about who is really important in a company and without end users there is no need for IT people. However you are dead wrong installing your own disks on your computer. It is a mahor security, legal and copyright risk to do such a thing. The problem with these threads is althought the IT guys comments were out of control and extreme, end user comments like your's were equally out of control. You were certainly smart to play the, "I'm the bottom line, not the IT guy" card, but it will not work everywhere. Wise up.
1) Non-profit companies generally don't have "becoming for-profit" in their mission statement. It's not like when a private company tries to go public.
2) While using "google" as a verb may not be the queen's English, given this site's technologically literate readership, the author rightly assumed that he would be understood.
3) Posting rants about "proper English" on Slashdot does not make you cool, nor does it make you appear intelligent. Discussing the actual issues rather than taking issue with minor flaws in the presentation will make you appear more intelligent. Even if you're not.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Just in case your resume comes up on my desk. I'll need to know to throw it in the trash for such a lame-brained decision.
Instead of re-inventing that wheel a better solution is to rework that piece of Mozilla so that on platforms with multi-user support the native support is used instead of the proprietary Mozilla-only methods.
Um, not exactly. In a few cases, a user needs to have multiple profiles of his own. It's a tree structure. Granted, the only situation I'm coming up with is a developer (web developer, moz embedder, they're all the same), but really! :) Users need profiles!
Like what I said? You might like my music
REGEDIT4
r entVersion\Run]Z ILLA.EXE\" -turbo"
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Cur
"Mozilla Quick Launch"="\"C:\\PROGRA~1\\MOZILLA.ORG\\MOZILLA\\MO
Other registry entries might be necessary to set Mozilla as the default browser.
Other handy tips for mozilla configuration (such as locked config items, automatically generated personal config, etc) can be found at http://www.alain.knaff.lu/howto/MozillaCustomizati on/
This is used in the schools participating in the LLL project.
Some Highlights:
- Any configuration options accessible in prefs.js can be stored in a locate mozilla.cfg file (optionnally locked in such a way that it can no longer be overridden by the user):
- Disable 'Open Unrequested Windows' (kill pop-ups),
- Enable HTTP Pipelining,
- Set toolbar to 'Pictures only',
- Set Home Page to my organization's intranet site,
- Set start page to 'Blank page',
- Enable Middle-click for new tab,
- Enable control+enter for new tab,
- Default downloads to 'open a progress dialog',
- Disable Javascript and Plugins for Mail & News
- Using mozilla's own registry (%USERPROFILE%\Application Data\Mozilla\registry.dat) set the profile directory (which contains prefs.js et al.) to be on the user's home directory (H:\). That way, you can have a personalized configuration (Mail & News) automatically created by a script. When the user first logs in, he doesn't need to set his email address, server name, etc for using Mail & News, everything is already done for him!
- Disabling of the bulky XUL.mfl file (whose sizes quickly add up if you have thousands of users): just create a directory named XUL.mfl, and Mozilla will be unable to create that file, and it will still work correctly!
- Automatical loading of the needed registry entries as soon as user logs in, using a netlogon script
At LLL, we deploy our machines using Udpcast, which might not be appropriate in your case (all your machines are different), but as other posters have pointed out, most of the client-side installation options can also be handled by a Zipfile plus a small install script to put stuff into the correct place.Say no to software patents.
just call me before you do, i gotta watch. although im 20 bucks short of a bus ticket now. thanks a lot mr throw-an-interception-after-the-only-productive-dr ive-of -the-game-when-you-really-needed-it mcnabb
The ctrl-enter functionality in Phoenix is precisely the reason that I don't use Mozilla.
.com for you (and yes, I do know about the patch).
.com if it can't resolve what you typed.
I can't stand Mozilla not being able to automatically enter www.
with mozilla, you just have to hit enter. mozilla will automatically navigate to www. < what you typed >
Professional chefs use a couple of knives to get the job done: they are reliable, predictable, simple, and efficient. Amateurs run out and buy every kitchen appliance under the sun, hoping to compensate with appliances for skills that they lack. It's no different with system management: if you don't know what you are doing, your answer is going to be: "oh, just buy another piece of software".
:(
Thats one of the most insightful things I've read in a long time, if only I had mod points at the moments
try Altiris Deployment server, we use this to deploy workstation images and applications though the application part is not for linux. google the name Altiris and you will get their website. check it
ickystuff
FWIW, pushing out customizing Unix/Linux versions
is rather straight forward. There are a few
files that I needed to edit, but once I found
the right values almost everything worked fine.
There are still a few things missing in my setup
(actually for Mozilla 1.1; I just started on
1.2.1 last week), mostly involving integrating
search within our intranet.
Though it would be nice if the process was better
documented. I wonder how many times this wheel
has been reinvented.
If they gave out cash awards for core dumps...
as a network admin running win/linux boxes in an educational environment and having restricted time for maintenance, this is the only way to go by having stock standard setups for most of anything on the desktop and yes i have been guilty of getting in to the group policy editor and making it difficult for people to ghange the workstation from the original image. this is not forcing my preferences onto other people this is being efficient for my employer when it comes to checking 16 PC's x 5 classrooms for the teachers classes. I have been guilty of re-imaging a complete drive because i did not have the time to sit and standardize a desktop for the next class. this is how it works for me. we use altiris corporate software. which is costly but it blows ghost away for ant task more than cloning a drive.
ickystuff
Where have you been? The best way to get modded up on slashdot is to encourage the use of MS products or the extol the virtue of MS products.
As for benefits I would say not having to patch IE every two weeks is a pretty good benefit.
War is necrophilia.
"Second, I am not a Mozilla developer, so that won't be happening anytime soon"
You don't have to be a mozilla developer. Writing install scripts, javascript, or xul is pretty easy for just about anybody. Hell even if you simply documented what to do it would be a HUGE help.
"Modifications to the source *should* be made/will likely be required. "
Once again this is not true. There are many posts on this subject now which explain what needs to get done and none of them require source changes.
"MacOSX already handles users and seperating settings between users - it follows that Mozilla should use these more refined more standard methods rather than invent their own."
I am going to try a few experiments but I bet I can even use a centralized install of mozilla. Just install it in one place and have multiple users use it.
War is necrophilia.
While we're on it - what's the "right" way to disable splash screen once and for all? (Windows & Linux).
Assuming you have a Windows shop... Read up on Active Directory, Group Policy and ZAP. It's all very well documented in either "Start :: Help" and the reskit.
Now if Mozilla--and OpenOffice.org for that matter--would come up w/ an MSI package, life would be much easier, and will definately promote their use in corporate settings.
Under Unix, you can't put root.root files in a user's $HOME and chmod 644 them and hope the user can't modify them. As they are in the user directory, in which the user can do whatever she wants, the can be unlinked/moved elsewhere. So the user can reconfigure mozilla as she sees fit.
Same thing for directories.
For your unix desktops you could probably use NFS or the like. Just install Mozilla with some reasonable defaults on a server and export the folder to your clients. There might be troubles with Mozilla's caching and profiles but I guess it's possible.
Another idea might be the usage of scp to easily copy a setup'd, customized mozilla folder to the clients. This might actually work with win32 clients, too.
A side note: Last week I watched some of the Tivoli demos from IBM. (I didn't like the interface at all.) But wouldn't be an opensource, crossplatform central management/deployment just rock? What's most crucial is an uselful UI, the actual work might be easily done by existing tools like scp et al. - Or is there already some project taking on that task?
-- I love the smell of Blue Screens in the morning.
We are currently deploying Mozilla 1.2.1 to our employees using a standard profile template filled with user specific values read from our LDAP system. This takes the hassle of configuration away from the user at the desktops and guarantees that he has a working profile the first time he launches Mozilla.
We had to manually edit the registry.dat file of the default Mozilla installation to point to the preconfigured profile in the user's home directory (drive H: on windows). We basically eliminated the random string in the profile path which is included for "security reasons" but makes automated profile generation very hard.
No we have a neat little script doing an sed over the profile template. With that we are able to generate user profiles in a second.
The binaries are distributed using "PC Updater", a package tool for windows. The packages includes the modified registry.dat file in c:\windows\application data\mozilla for win98. For W2K we put this registry.dat file into the user's roaming profile directory "application data\mozilla".
"Is it friday yet?"
Go to http://www.epsilonsquared.com/ .exe pack - and execute this .exe on other workstations. I use it to roll out applications on 30-pc network.
and download-install InstallRite on snapshot workstation. Then read how to use installRite and then install Mozilla. Then configure it as needed and let InstallRite make an filesystem snapshot diff as
Whatever... have you every worked in IT? It's not us IT guys that want it all the same, it's the management who want to enforce a standard look and feel. Yeah by all means have photos and stuff, but don't go overboard. If you work better with pink walls, does that give you the right to take a paintbrush to your cubicle. After all, if it help you work, it's good for the company right? And those prospective corporate clients will love your decorating skills. Suuure.
Another thing you missed is that having a standard desktop build gives us support guys a good baseline against which to judge the cause of a particular problem. No need to guess whether or not it's that dumb screensaver that's causing the problem. Makes life far easier.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being a total network facist. If you optometrist says you need certain colour schemes because you're dyslexic, we'll accommodate that. But just your fads and whims? Nope. Sorry.
The guy that made a point about company cars? Yeah, move the seat, set your radio presets, leave your phone charger plugged in, but I think it probably looked better in silver like all the rest of the fleet!
Like tinyurl, but one letter less! http://qurl.co.uk/
However, the way that mozilla renders sites is usually much more pleasant to look at than IE. Here is a fine example.
The Nullsoft Scriptable Install System is the open-source installer developed for Winamp. (Yes, I know Winamp is closed, but the installer it uses is under the zlib license).
Exchanges netmail doesnt work with this setting. To reply to an email it requires a new window to be opened by the browser.
omcic--
I've done this too (same sized company). I created a samba share, mapped it as M: and then installed Mozilla on it. Edit the preference files by hand and install the extra bits (spell checker, calendar, flash plugin) then made the share read-only. On each machine all you have to do it create a shortcut to M:\Mozilla.exe on the desktop and run it! All your defaults will be there and users never have to do anything when you upgrade it to 1.3.
Mr. Smoove
"Those machines are also not there for the IT staff to use for some kind of power trip. Those machines are there to provide value to the company, which they presumably do when the users are working on them, not you. If the customizations they do make them work more effectively (translation: more motivated), that is good for the company. Certainly if they install viruses and stuff that creates trouble you need to take action, but the whining about text and background images is pathetic"
You world be terminated in a heartbeat in my shop! The PC's are the companies, NOT yours. The comapny, not IT, wants the machines to be IDENTICAL, so any user can go to any machine and be productive and not have to mess with some other bullshit user's preferences. Are you that stupid? Power trip? It sounds like you want to do what YOU want on other people's machines. We have LAWS against that. Please go back to your mommy and ask her about ethics. You failed to learn at a young age. NOT YOUR PROPERTY. NOT!
The operative word here is "unrequested". I.e. you can still have popups in response to button click events. But not for mouseovers, onLoad, onExit, timer, etc.
Most apps that use popups for sensible purposes do some in response to an explicit action by the user.
Most ads and other obnoxious crap pop up in response to some trivial event (loading a page, leaving a page, mouse pointer traversing a certain area of the page, ...)
Say no to software patents.
I tried to switch users over to Mozilla in a small office of less than 30 machines, with a varied OS and machine set. The plan came to a screeching halt when I found I couldn't import peoples' (sometimes extensive and well organized) bookmarks reliably. This was version 1.2, I don't know if bookmark handling has gotten better.
They put up nightly builds, and it seems to me that EVERYTHING runs right out of a folder, no need to install. Its skinnable like you need, starts faster than IE, and all you would need to do is setup a reg key to set phoenix as the default browser. :)
No I didnt spell check this post...
I, for one, would be glad to go.
I work in desktop engineering/systems management for a company with tens of thousands of desktops.
I completely agree that if a user is more productive with oddball settings, then in a perfect world they should be allowed. HOWEVER....
We don't live in a perfect world. The customizations of themes/display preferences can cause the applications to behave in unpredictable ways.
On top of that, Windows is susceptible to app/OS failure due to application install-order.
Applications are designed expecting to have complete access to the whole system.
These combine such that locking the OS down for it's own protection can cause the applications to collapse.
For the good of the company, (since we are using this lousy OS and applications that are not coded or tested with alternate themes) - it makes business sense to restrict the users from expressing their preferences on the desktop.
The users don't have to like it, but they expect their applications to run. If I troubleshoot a problem, and it comes down to failure because of "utilities" or customizations that the user made, the theoretical increased productivity disappears.
Don't get me started on "this cool screensaver" or digital picture management software that our users have access to - It's all about the same as those wonderful chain letters and virus hoaxes.
Regards,
Anomaly
PS God loves you and longs for relationship with you.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
They're using KDE, and KDE allready has a pretty good idea what to do, so the ideal solution would be to use the KDE file associations in Mozilla.
I've had that question in my journal for a while and eventually I asked on kde-linux. Nobody had anything.
Anybody have any better solutions here?
The obvious thing to do is to write a script to parse KDE's config and create Mozilla's mimeTypes.rdf, but I haven't time to do that...
Anybody else done that?
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
And then copy the ~/.mozilla directory to everyone's home directory with one for loop. (OK, two or three installs and copy 'for' loops
.mozilla/appreg
in heterogenous environment).
There are two things that you need to get rid of:
1. Making install locally on each computer. You make yourself 50x as much work and maintenance this way.
2. Having to run user configuration on every account 50 times, locally. Distribute ready made setups from your administrator cubicle. Anyways, if you did, it would be very difficult for users to switch machines.
Unlike MSWindows, in Unix all setup files are text. You can script them, search them, add to them, inspect them and process them with any remote editor or text processing script. The only group of people that tries hard to break this nice arrangement are these gnome and projects like Mozilla.
Oopls, there it goes...
Erase it, kill it, eradicate it, format it, recompile and install it with text-based configuration. And petition those silly mozilla and gnome guys to end the 'registry' bad habit imported from poorly designed operating systems.
That's pretty much the way I do it.
By the way, if someone set me those defaults, such as tabs, I'll be really upset and the first thing would be that I change it to Middle Click opens window.
And do not disable changes, that is the sure way to make users really upset.
Petrus
I question whether Mozilla is ready for general use. See this Bugzilla report: 189778. Mozilla is wonderful software, but it crashes a lot when stressed under Windows XP.
It's called Red Carpet Enterprise, it works on the more common Linux variants, and it does everything you need.
I'm a newbie to all this so I figure I'm in over my head, I don't even have Slackware installed either so forgive me if incorrect. Couldn't you write a script for the options you wish to be installed/not installed(maybe edit the default install file), replace/create the file in the neccesary directory, run an ftp server on your machine, send to all machines and run the script file remotely?
I'm not exactly sure about writing scripts either but I'm sure you could include an if statement to determine the operating system and if the OS isn't the same as your machines, the machine visit the download page for the actual installation file needed.
Like I said, I'm new, haven't had Slackware for over 4 days and I'm on Win currently. Sorry if I'm wrong.
Although I'm a bit of a naif with lizard-tech, it appears that all the modifications you wish to affect reside in configuration files. What about adding a script in Java or Python to directly write the conf files, behind the big reptile's back?
...if you're installing Mozilla in a professional environment, you must not forget to download a (slightly) more professional splash screen than the one Moz ships with (shouldn't be hard. The one Moz ships with is embarrassingly bad). You can find some good ones here.
Then rename that image "mozilla.bmp" and put it in your root mozilla directory (the same one that holds your mozilla executable, mozilla.org by default).
Nothing will kill the reputation of this new browser you're deploying like that ridiculous green dinosaur breathing fire all over.
--
Let me clarify. I usually use the mouse to click on links etc. Using mouse gestures, the only time I have to move my hand to the keyboard is when I'm writing something, which I do far less than using links. Using the keyboard to navigate through pages takes a lot more time.
One good thing is that I mostly don't use any of phoenix buttons or menus, which means that the pointer rarely has to move far. It's the best way to open a link in a new tab, switch to it and then close it.
Have you ever tried to 'fix' someones PC when they have set all the foreground and background colours to the same colour ?
Perhaps, but I stopped reading after the link to http://www.alain.knaff.lu/howto/MozillaCustomizati on/ That's the goatse.cx pic, and this post deserves to be modded down to hell.
Moderators: follow the damned links!
My poor eyes!
Okay... that page is linked a dozen of times, so I suspect that the page actually had valid data before. Someone must have 0nw3d it, and replaced the useful data with the goatse.cx guy.
I'd s---can Mozilla, and deploy something lighter and quicker, say Opera or something like that. Mozilla is just too big and bloated--I wouldn't do it in my organization, and it sounds like our shop is smaller than yours.
We've got Opera running fine on WinNT and FreeBSD machines.
I have heard of times where the employee was smarter than the IT staff. My experience in 'support' was running several offices with custom software on top of Win9x (and some DOS machines). All machines were networked and all provided the same set of programs at the workstation. Further, all machines were shared by multiple users depending upon time of day and day of the week and were all public facing machines. In this environment, the IT Nazi attitude is *required*. Users changing desktops, moving icons, changing the icons, installing screensavers, etc was -and I'm sure still is- prohibited by company policy to the point where you could be terminated immediately for cause. Being the Win9x environment, the best one can hope for is using policies in those offices and on those machines where stuff was constantly being changed.
It sounds like your environment is different enough to require a different approach, but one that wouldn't work in my environment.
the humour of you slamming all those other solutions and then plugging for someone to even CONTEMPLATE enterprise management with Cygwin and Perl is just beyond belief.
I don't care of you have 50 machines or 50,000 - planning things well with solutions that scale is important.
I wish I could say that your post surprises me, but the typical slashdot user tends to view cobbling together a solution with duct tape, twine, and used chewing gum to be a equal if not superior solution to actual planning.
Have you ever worked in an environment when you've been called upon to manage an infrastructure for a large number of platforms? how big was it? because the real world is full of nasty crap you have to deal with, and the last thing I want to do is spend my evenings and weekends fucking around with my custom perl scripts on 4000 windows boxes.
I'm a huge open source zealot, but come on- some of us like to actually get home in time for dinner. there's other things besides computers, you know.
EOM
I would like to thank everyone that responded to my question. Many of your responses were knowlegable and very helpful. Allow me to clarify a few things:
Again, thank you to each of you for your help. Perhaps after a bit more spit and polish is put on Mozilla, I'll reconsider a network-wide roll-out.
Well with Type Ahead Find you don't have to click on links either.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
neato
Tech: "Bob, this is Joe Schmoe in IT, I need to install something on your machine."
Bob: "I didn't call you guys. There's nothing wrong with my computer."
Tech: "Yeah there is, you fuckwit. Your machine has been spreading klez-plus wildly to and fro throughout the company, and to our customers and suppliers. Also, someone has compromised your system and has been launching brute-force attacks against our servers from it. And another thing, that piece of shit browser of yours is horking on the company's W3C-compliant web pages. No, I'm not going to change them because your browser sucks ass, sorry."
Tech: "Well, you see, Microsoft is evil. I have to install Mozilla on your box this afternoon."
Bob: "Who the hell is this? What the hell is Godzilla? Who's your boss? I don't have time for this shit. Talk to my boss if you want to touch my machine. Then, send me an email, and I'll try to remember to leave you my machine when I go on vacation in December. But if a single file is missing, I'll have your ass."
Tech: "I'd be glad to talk to your boss. That hopeless retard breaks his machine at least three times a month, so I'll certainly hear from him before December. If he still has a job in December - it appears IE was kind enough to let an anonymous gentleman in Brazil install an auto-dialer on his system, which has been dialing a mysterious 1-900 number repeatedly. His phone bill should be in the five-figures this month.
"As for touching 'your' machine - it's not 'your' machine. As a matter of fact I'm VNC'd into it right now, dipshit. Good to see you do all your personal on-line banking and teen-chat at work.
"And the only way you'll have my ass is if you intend on rimming me until I say I've had enough. Which reminds me: don't worry - I won't tell anyone about the donkey-sucking porn you have splattered throughout your browser cache. What's that? 'Browser cache'? It's a technical term, don't worry about it."
"I'm glad we've had this little chat. I feel better now that we've agreed that I won't tell you how to market useless shit to people who don't need it, and you won't tell me how to manage our computer systems. Have a nice day!"
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
What I've set up for our machines is MSI's of Mozilla. The best way to create the MSI's are to use Wise Admin Studio.
Here's how you do it:
1)You start Wise Admin Studio (I've got 3.2, but 4 is out) and go through the steps of repacking into MSI.
2)You run the Mozilla installer. I then also add the spellchecker.
3)You modify the MSI, as some entries get detected improperly, such as temp directories you don't want on other machines.
4)Deploy the MSI to the entire site, domain or OU.
The above is assuming knowledge of Active Directory and GPO's.
Do you see the sig? Do you have it in your sights? Why yes, Miss Moneypenny...
Ctrl+t opens a new tab in phoenix.
IT (the machines) works to help the organisation perform more effectively than they would without it. If not, then why has the organisation got it at all?
IT (the staff) do NOT work for the user (the not-IT staff). Everyone employed by the organisation works to further the organisation's goals, whether that be the education of students or maximising sales of product. Sales people or teachers or design engineers are not the only people "make money" for the organisation.
IT (the machines) are maintained/developed/planned by IT (the people). Policies regarding standardisation of the machines are created to balance the needs of the organisation and users with the costs of maintaining a particular setup. It can be very expensive in support time to maintain a system where every user has the right to install/configure freely.
I would assume however that your IT staff were not being involved at an appropriate decision making level, or the individual that was in that position was not buying into the organisation's (not users) needs. Hopefully that was the person that was fired.
For steps to lock some preferences in Mozilla and/or Phoenix, take a look at this post on the seul-edu mailing list.
The default Mozilla tab Settings suck see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167316
I've put up some notes on how I deployed Mozilla 1.1 on a few hundred (Windows-only) PCs last September: http://mozdoc.burlco.org/ As the document is a draft, I'd be interested in hearing others' experiences or other methods they used, so it can be added.
with mozilla, you just have to hit enter. mozilla will automatically navigate to www. .com if it can't resolve what you typed.
Yeah, but it takes time to resolve. I would rather have it jump to www..com without delay.