My money is on PS3 not being backwards compatible.
The fact that Sony is already reducing its hardware real estate lends to the thought that the PS3 will be BC. The only reason the PS3 would not be compatible is if it took up a huge amount of board space. If the two major components of the PS2 can be combined into a 1 chip design, then that is a good thing. What we are seeing is the same progression from PS1->PS2. Use the next generation semiconductor technologies to build yesterday's (using yesterday loosly) silicon.
Also, in the April 2002 issue of Playstation Mag, Ken Kutaragi ("father of the playstation"), has stated that the PS3 will be BC with the PS2. Granted that could be marketing hype. However, it looks like Sony is heading towards production simplification, which is what it would need to achieve BC.
First, Sony's production costs have not hit bottom yet. It was only recently that they began to break even on hardware sales. Their business model only allows them to realize profit through software license sales. That being the case, anything to reduce production costs, even a fraction, would be significant. Granted, MOST production does not fully benefit from the same revenue model that video game consoles do. Reducing part placement time, component count, and test time are all reasons Sony would being doing this. Anything they can do to reduce their production cost is worth it to them (in this revenue model).
Secondly I did not mean to imply that Vias add extra cost to a board. Instead, they add complexitiy. For example, they are horrible for signal integrity. If you want to trash a high speed clock line, put a via on it. Although not a likely suspect, they do create another point of failure. However, in relation to the cost of the rest of a board design, vias are next to nothing (as you said).
I don't consider squeezing 2 chips into 1 is going redefine the marketplace, or even Sony's bottomline.
No this is not going to redefine the marketplace, but it will signifcantly impact Sony's bottomline. If you do not understand how, then you do not understand the hardware design and manufacturing process. Once yeild is up on the new silicon, there will be significant savings on Sony's manufacturing process. For example, let's consider two invidivual chips with a large number of interconnections. By placing both peices of silicon on the same die, you have eliminated a very serious amount of redundent connections. Instead of going from Silicon -> Package -> Board -> Possible Vias -> Package -> Silicon you are now going from Silicon -> Interconnect -> Silicon (basically). This is a huge savings in board space, packaging, and a large increase in reliability. The increase in reliability comes because you have less overall connections. Each connection in an electronic device is a possible point of failure.
The disadvantage is that this was not done already. Then again this is an excellent chance for Sony to debug this chip design for the PS3 (backward comabilitiy) and the creation of a PStwo.
No. Since the console is a known hardware target, Sony can not alter its specifications on the fly. That would cause serioues problems to developers with writing uniform software. This is not to say it wouldn't be possible to increase performance, however. Developers rely on each console operating the same way. Very serious developers even rely on various operations to execute in a specific amount of time. If one spin of the board did certain operations faster, it would be a nightmare on developers. They have a hard enough time as it is.
I was wondering if the Slashdot community has an answer to my question about that one thing I was curious about. I'm too freaking lazy to actually considering looking for myself. Instead, I'll submit my question, wait for a respone on the item I'm pondering.
I agree with you. I have literally seen dozens of projects on various web sites that do what they want to do. Unforutantly their next Ask/. question will be "what is google, and can someone in the open source community please use it for me?" Since he put open source in the question, it'll be posted.
Anyone remember the first year?
on
April Fools Wrap Up
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Does anyone remember the first year all of the major geek-sites got together for a April Fool's joke? I barely remember what happened (AKA: This account maybe somewhat off from what really happened). I think Segfault annouced that Microsoft was bascially shutting them down through legal action. So Freshmeat (I think) and Slashdot played along. I couldn't believe it, because they pratically fooled everyone. They lead up to it over the course of a week or so. Quite funny and original.
The neighbor's cats don't like it when I play Laser Tag with them and my shotgun. Shuts 'em up real quick when they howl all night. If the owners would get them fixed I might not feel the instinctive need to reach for my gun.
If I read this on Tuesday, I'd think it was a real one. In fact, I saw the Ask Slashdots first today and thought "wow, they didn't even do their usual April Fools thing."
This sounds more like a post from a newsgroup, not a question suitable for Ask Slashdot.
You know my computer does something funny. It only happens every once in a while and I can't repeat it. I have no idea what the problem is or how to describe it... what could it be? Could it be how Linux uses it?
According to the Playstation2-Linux.com site it is perfectly acceptable to send the games/programs you create to other Linux kits. We do know what the Linux stuff is going to be like. The group that is putting the whole thing together is pretty forthcoming in their message boards. Furthermore, we are only being limited to how the hardware is accessed. Other than that, it is a fully fuctional linux system.
Read the article, it gives the #1 reason. It gives people a chance to program for a console. Sure its going to be very much like programming for Linux on a PC, but not exactly alike. There is an inherent challenge in dealing with the limitations of a console meanwhile exploiting its strengths.
So programming a cool game under Linux will limit the distribution of that game to... you
No because it comes with the network adapter. So I can send it to other people with the Linux Kit. Where's the fun in that you ask? Well, its fun because I didn't have to play the high license fee. If all you had to pay was $200 to develop for the PS2 and produce commerical games, don't you think companies would jump on that like mad?
So instead you are going to buy your own mouse, keyboard, harddrive, network adapter, and video adapter resulting in saving money? Also, to use a burned copy of the CD you're going to need a modchip so don't forget to factor that in. When its all said and done, you've done what? Saved your self $20? Oh wait, no, you cost yourself at least $20.
This effort has nothing to do with the PS3. Its based on their GScube arch which is nothing like the current PS2's arch. So I'm kind of at a loss how anyone buying the kit is going to help Sony. For one thing, I find it hard to believe that they are making $200 a pop. They are probably making far less. They are using this as a public relations ploy. Make a little on the hardware they sell, but make a lot in the minds of the users.
Guess you didn't read the article. But that is not surprising. If you think about it, the PS2 makes a pretty limited general purpose computer. It features very little upgradibility and limited general computing power. As I recall, it only has 32megs of system RAM. That's fine for running a couple of applications, but nothing memory intensive.
Says who? You? Well then its a waste of time to you. Last time I checked, I do not have any of the tools I need to develop games and/or applications for my PS2. In fact, I'm looking through all of my directories right now and GCC doesn't seem to support the PS2. So no, it is not a waste of time. I think it'd be kind of fun to try and write my stuff to run on my PS2. As far as limiting the usefulness of a "homebrew game maker" seems to me anyone with the Linux kit would be able to play the games. You are, afterall, getting a network adapter with it. The kit isn't so that I can go off and make a fortune as a game designer. Its so I can do something off the wall with my PS2. It also means I'll probably hold on to the hardware for longer now because I can do something "else" with it.
The PS-2 machine itself doesn't read CD-R or DVD-R media's
Well. Actually, the drive reads CD-Rs just fine.
Re:How many HP LaserJet II's do you still have aro
on
Flickering Monitors?
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· Score: 2
I've found on more than one occassion the ole' HPLJII's (and a few variants) have a horrific draw on the power grid every few minutes.
That horrific draw wouldn't be right about the same time they actually print something, would it? Laser printer (especially older ones or bigger ones) draw a ton of power while charging up their drums.
I don't think they are talking about distributed computing like Seti@Home. The article said they have been working with IBM. That leads me to believe they are going to put mulitple "systems" in one case and do distributed computing in that fashion.
Man I need some coffee or something. I read that and thought "whoa, when the hell did the Space Shuttle get an Intel processor, let alone a Pentium 4??" =)
I work for a T&M company and deal with our computer solutions. Customer interest is building in our Serial-ATA analysis tools. Developers find it challenging, but appears to be the way they want to go. I wouldn't hold my breath for a desktop system any soon then 6 months. If it does come out before 6 months from now, don't expect it to be very stable.
If the HP/Compaq deal goes through, Dell should be number 2 behind them... and I THINK that they are still phone/web order only
Dell will probably never go into the retail market. Their manufacturing scheme is direct sales. In order to streamline thier costs, they do not being assembling their systems until an order is placed. This allows them to keep their inventory extremely low. Whereas, HP and Compaq are inventory type companies. They can't build new products until the old ones are off the store shelves. Dell will probably never be seen in Best Buy.
Please people, understand what you can do at the Alamo. I highly doubt anyone is planning on seeing a huge increase in laptops during regular movies. Alamo hosts a variety of events because of their atmosphere and screen setups. In addition to movies they have the Academy Awards Party and things along those lines. For an example, If you were really crazy about LAN parties, you could rent a theatre one day and play LAN games while having movies displayed on the big screen.
Personally I usually go for their MST3000, but I can't say I'd want my laptop there with me.
Huh? Have you ever been to the Alamo Draft House? I haven't been to the one downtown, but I go to the one in North Austin all the time. Its not really fancy at all. Nor is it $20 a ticket. Nor is well lit. Its very dark, the food prices are reasonable, and it isn't what I would call fancy. I've never spent $200 there for a date, ever.
Actually Alamo Draft House is the ONLY place I'll send the money to see a movie. They have such a wide variety of events and movie types that they show, its well worth the $8. Not only that, it is rather nice to sit back and enjoy a Guiness while watching a movie.
I would imagine the wireless internet is for other events, not for blockbuster weekends.
Slashdot Mirror
My money is on PS3 not being backwards compatible.
The fact that Sony is already reducing its hardware real estate lends to the thought that the PS3 will be BC. The only reason the PS3 would not be compatible is if it took up a huge amount of board space. If the two major components of the PS2 can be combined into a 1 chip design, then that is a good thing. What we are seeing is the same progression from PS1->PS2. Use the next generation semiconductor technologies to build yesterday's (using yesterday loosly) silicon.
Also, in the April 2002 issue of Playstation Mag, Ken Kutaragi ("father of the playstation"), has stated that the PS3 will be BC with the PS2. Granted that could be marketing hype. However, it looks like Sony is heading towards production simplification, which is what it would need to achieve BC.
I think you've made two incorrect assumptions.
First, Sony's production costs have not hit bottom yet. It was only recently that they began to break even on hardware sales. Their business model only allows them to realize profit through software license sales. That being the case, anything to reduce production costs, even a fraction, would be significant. Granted, MOST production does not fully benefit from the same revenue model that video game consoles do. Reducing part placement time, component count, and test time are all reasons Sony would being doing this. Anything they can do to reduce their production cost is worth it to them (in this revenue model).
Secondly I did not mean to imply that Vias add extra cost to a board. Instead, they add complexitiy. For example, they are horrible for signal integrity. If you want to trash a high speed clock line, put a via on it. Although not a likely suspect, they do create another point of failure. However, in relation to the cost of the rest of a board design, vias are next to nothing (as you said).
I don't consider squeezing 2 chips into 1 is going redefine the marketplace, or even Sony's bottomline.
No this is not going to redefine the marketplace, but it will signifcantly impact Sony's bottomline. If you do not understand how, then you do not understand the hardware design and manufacturing process. Once yeild is up on the new silicon, there will be significant savings on Sony's manufacturing process. For example, let's consider two invidivual chips with a large number of interconnections. By placing both peices of silicon on the same die, you have eliminated a very serious amount of redundent connections. Instead of going from Silicon -> Package -> Board -> Possible Vias -> Package -> Silicon you are now going from Silicon -> Interconnect -> Silicon (basically). This is a huge savings in board space, packaging, and a large increase in reliability. The increase in reliability comes because you have less overall connections. Each connection in an electronic device is a possible point of failure.
The disadvantage is that this was not done already. Then again this is an excellent chance for Sony to debug this chip design for the PS3 (backward comabilitiy) and the creation of a PStwo.
No. Since the console is a known hardware target, Sony can not alter its specifications on the fly. That would cause serioues problems to developers with writing uniform software. This is not to say it wouldn't be possible to increase performance, however. Developers rely on each console operating the same way. Very serious developers even rely on various operations to execute in a specific amount of time. If one spin of the board did certain operations faster, it would be a nightmare on developers. They have a hard enough time as it is.
You're marked as a troll and they are the one asking the question. Go figure.
I was wondering if the Slashdot community has an answer to my question about that one thing I was curious about. I'm too freaking lazy to actually considering looking for myself. Instead, I'll submit my question, wait for a respone on the item I'm pondering.
/. question will be "what is google, and can someone in the open source community please use it for me?" Since he put open source in the question, it'll be posted.
I agree with you. I have literally seen dozens of projects on various web sites that do what they want to do. Unforutantly their next Ask
Does anyone remember the first year all of the major geek-sites got together for a April Fool's joke? I barely remember what happened (AKA: This account maybe somewhat off from what really happened). I think Segfault annouced that Microsoft was bascially shutting them down through legal action. So Freshmeat (I think) and Slashdot played along. I couldn't believe it, because they pratically fooled everyone. They lead up to it over the course of a week or so. Quite funny and original.
The neighbor's cats don't like it when I play Laser Tag with them and my shotgun. Shuts 'em up real quick when they howl all night. If the owners would get them fixed I might not feel the instinctive need to reach for my gun.
Agreed.
If I read this on Tuesday, I'd think it was a real one. In fact, I saw the Ask Slashdots first today and thought "wow, they didn't even do their usual April Fools thing."
This sounds more like a post from a newsgroup, not a question suitable for Ask Slashdot.
You know my computer does something funny. It only happens every once in a while and I can't repeat it. I have no idea what the problem is or how to describe it... what could it be? Could it be how Linux uses it?
According to the Playstation2-Linux.com site it is perfectly acceptable to send the games/programs you create to other Linux kits. We do know what the Linux stuff is going to be like. The group that is putting the whole thing together is pretty forthcoming in their message boards. Furthermore, we are only being limited to how the hardware is accessed. Other than that, it is a fully fuctional linux system.
Read the article, it gives the #1 reason. It gives people a chance to program for a console. Sure its going to be very much like programming for Linux on a PC, but not exactly alike. There is an inherent challenge in dealing with the limitations of a console meanwhile exploiting its strengths.
So programming a cool game under Linux will limit the distribution of that game to ... you
No because it comes with the network adapter. So I can send it to other people with the Linux Kit. Where's the fun in that you ask? Well, its fun because I didn't have to play the high license fee. If all you had to pay was $200 to develop for the PS2 and produce commerical games, don't you think companies would jump on that like mad?
So instead you are going to buy your own mouse, keyboard, harddrive, network adapter, and video adapter resulting in saving money? Also, to use a burned copy of the CD you're going to need a modchip so don't forget to factor that in. When its all said and done, you've done what? Saved your self $20? Oh wait, no, you cost yourself at least $20.
This effort has nothing to do with the PS3. Its based on their GScube arch which is nothing like the current PS2's arch. So I'm kind of at a loss how anyone buying the kit is going to help Sony. For one thing, I find it hard to believe that they are making $200 a pop. They are probably making far less. They are using this as a public relations ploy. Make a little on the hardware they sell, but make a lot in the minds of the users.
Guess you didn't read the article. But that is not surprising. If you think about it, the PS2 makes a pretty limited general purpose computer. It features very little upgradibility and limited general computing power. As I recall, it only has 32megs of system RAM. That's fine for running a couple of applications, but nothing memory intensive.
In short, this entire kit is a waste of time.
Says who? You? Well then its a waste of time to you. Last time I checked, I do not have any of the tools I need to develop games and/or applications for my PS2. In fact, I'm looking through all of my directories right now and GCC doesn't seem to support the PS2. So no, it is not a waste of time. I think it'd be kind of fun to try and write my stuff to run on my PS2. As far as limiting the usefulness of a "homebrew game maker" seems to me anyone with the Linux kit would be able to play the games. You are, afterall, getting a network adapter with it. The kit isn't so that I can go off and make a fortune as a game designer. Its so I can do something off the wall with my PS2. It also means I'll probably hold on to the hardware for longer now because I can do something "else" with it.
The PS-2 machine itself doesn't read CD-R or DVD-R media's
Well. Actually, the drive reads CD-Rs just fine.
I've found on more than one occassion the ole' HPLJII's (and a few variants) have a horrific draw on the power grid every few minutes.
That horrific draw wouldn't be right about the same time they actually print something, would it? Laser printer (especially older ones or bigger ones) draw a ton of power while charging up their drums.
I don't think they are talking about distributed computing like Seti@Home. The article said they have been working with IBM. That leads me to believe they are going to put mulitple "systems" in one case and do distributed computing in that fashion.
Man I need some coffee or something. I read that and thought "whoa, when the hell did the Space Shuttle get an Intel processor, let alone a Pentium 4??" =)
/me just being silly.
Aw well,
I work for a T&M company and deal with our computer solutions. Customer interest is building in our Serial-ATA analysis tools. Developers find it challenging, but appears to be the way they want to go. I wouldn't hold my breath for a desktop system any soon then 6 months. If it does come out before 6 months from now, don't expect it to be very stable.
If the HP/Compaq deal goes through, Dell should be number 2 behind them... and I THINK that they are still phone/web order only
Dell will probably never go into the retail market. Their manufacturing scheme is direct sales. In order to streamline thier costs, they do not being assembling their systems until an order is placed. This allows them to keep their inventory extremely low. Whereas, HP and Compaq are inventory type companies. They can't build new products until the old ones are off the store shelves. Dell will probably never be seen in Best Buy.
Please people, understand what you can do at the Alamo. I highly doubt anyone is planning on seeing a huge increase in laptops during regular movies. Alamo hosts a variety of events because of their atmosphere and screen setups. In addition to movies they have the Academy Awards Party and things along those lines. For an example, If you were really crazy about LAN parties, you could rent a theatre one day and play LAN games while having movies displayed on the big screen.
Personally I usually go for their MST3000, but I can't say I'd want my laptop there with me.
Huh? Have you ever been to the Alamo Draft House? I haven't been to the one downtown, but I go to the one in North Austin all the time. Its not really fancy at all. Nor is it $20 a ticket. Nor is well lit. Its very dark, the food prices are reasonable, and it isn't what I would call fancy. I've never spent $200 there for a date, ever.
Actually Alamo Draft House is the ONLY place I'll send the money to see a movie. They have such a wide variety of events and movie types that they show, its well worth the $8. Not only that, it is rather nice to sit back and enjoy a Guiness while watching a movie.
I would imagine the wireless internet is for other events, not for blockbuster weekends.