The thing not understood by Fundamentalist Libertarians (yes, it's a religion) and other's who believe Capitalism is the only answer is that socialists (socialist has many meanings, I will unapologetically stick to mine) are not against ownership of property, they are for finding a system where MORE people have property and ownership and control of their lives. Capitalists make most of their money by virtue of what they own. I believe we could convert all renters into home owners, for example. That would require new laws making it impossible to rent a property to a person as their primary residence. And it would require replacing for-profit banks by nationalized distribute-profits-back-to-the-tax-base banks that, over a few decades buy out all current land lords (lords being a feudal concept), and replace that system by a system of much more equitably distributed ownership. Same goes for companies. Fine that a top notch PHP programmer was able to become a billionaire by being in the right place at the right time and making the right moves. In a socialist economy he would still be very well rewarded but laws requiring all employees to own part of the company along with much more progressive taxation would also help level the playing field.
Systems like in Denmark, Norwayt, and Germany just go a small step toward my above-hinted-at concept of socialism, but they are a start. Germany is a net exporting industrialized country with tax-base paid education for all and health insurance for all. If they can do it, the U.S. could do it.
I first brought up oceanpark.com on Slackware Linux in 1993. I seem to recall it was running on an 80386 but I may very well be mistaken. It was using a 14.4 modem running gopher and FTP 24x7 and later of course served web sites. I recall when I later converted from acoustic model to DSL -- I remember doing that in stages where at first inbound packets came in through the acoustic modem and outbound went out through the faster DSL connection (I don't recall the routing and DSL shenanigans involved just now). I do recall that all that was configured without having to reboot the machine (something unimaginable for a Windows server). Those were the days man.
Good = Ken Thompson (contemporary of both Gates and Jobs) Bad = Any app (e.g. GMail iPhone app) that displays just the time or just the date or just "N days ago" Bad = Blog posts with no date of publication shown in the body Overrated = Apple GUIs Bad = Windows shortcuts Good = UNIX symlinks
When I compose or reply in iPhone GMail, there app inserts a space character to the left of the first character I enter. I am forced to manually go back and remove that space in order to avoid an ugly single character indent of my first paragraph.
slew wrote: > Because no-one has ever in history designed a machine that could... > * operate switchboards better than a human could > * compute ballistic trajectories better than a human could > * transcribe documents better than a human could > * assemble electronics better than a human could > * sort mail better than a human could > > This stuff has been going on for a couple centuries now displacing lower-middle class workers. >
But those technologies were not Turing machines and, most importantly, they were not Turing machines that are on the verge of being able to create other Turing machine that can do *any* task done by humans now or in the future.
To look at the extreme (and so far hypothetical case), suppose we do reach a point where an AI is created that can create other AIs to replace all existing human workers? If those AIs are owned by a small number of humans, then those owner humans will, progressively, obtain all wealth since they will own the work done by all of the new AI machine workers. Society and most human work is already owned by the Capitalists but in this hypothetical extreme case, there would be no need for all but a handful of Capitalist owners (let's call then neo-Kings). What reason would the owners, the neo-Kings, have to share wealth with the no-longer-working humans (the rest of humanity)?
Basically, this is the ultimate Capitalist end point. It can't be reached unless the humans (almost all humans) that no longer have work are given enough to prevent them from removing the owners and taking ownership of the machines and putting social mechanisms into place that assure a reasonable (to be defined) distribution of wealth. Capitalism would have reached an end point where it was no longer capable, per se, of assuring that reasonable distribution of wealth.
Cramer, you may be right, but one must try. You'd think that with the likes of Amazon and Netflix being affected last Friday that might rattle some cages. Cheers - Dennis (Dennis G. Allard)
PEIP and Fair Service require implementation on a cooperating network of routers in which case what is encoded in each router only requires space proportional to the number of hops to the router times the number of ancestor routers of the router.
The longest paths in the Internet are currently about 25 hops. The average is actually much less. The routers that forward packets are typically connected to no more than 16 other routers. Therefore a typicalhop should take no more than 4 bits. This gives a total of about 16 bytes for the longest paths in IPv4 (including the 4 byte explicit address) and 28 bytes in IPv6 (where the explicit address is 16 bytes).
Of course, in packets with an extra path, the expense could be twice as high. However, as noted above, these packets make up a small fraction of the traffic in the Internet. To give an idea of the value of the bandwidth being used, it is relevant to mention that the smallest possible IPv6 header is 40 bytes, whereas the smallest possible IPv4 header is 20 bytes. Most IPv4 headers are actually the minumum length. Anyone who wants to move from IPv4 to IPv6 therefore must be willing to pay 20 bytes per packet.
The time it takes a router to add its data to the path is a small constant. This should pose not a serious problem. If expanding a packet is problematic for specific routers, it would be possible to pre-allocate space. A more serious problem is that this extra data might require fragmentation. For non-attack traffic this does not seem like a major problem. TCP traffic, which comprises most of the traffic in the Internet, avoids this problem by using non-fragmentable packets to find a Path MTU. Attack traffic is discussed below.
A reasonable question is what maximum size of paths must be supported. Both IPv4 and IPv6 limit paths to 255 hops. As noted above, this is far more than any real paths. Of course, legitimate paths must not be cut off since that prevents source tracing. On the other hand, there are good reasons to limit the length to the maximum realistic path length. Something in the range of 30 hops or 16 bytes (for IPv4) seems like a reasonable limit.
PEIP and Fair Service are not overwhelmed by the âoesheer number of connectionsâ because what matters is the set of router paths leading to each host. Think of the host being targeted. Now consider the spanning tree of the graph of routers that are involved in routing packets to that host. If every router in that spanning tree has implemented Fair Service then most paths will be providing unhindered service. Even the most prolific attack can only compromise a tiny set of the router paths and even then if Fair Service is implemented all the way back to each source host, even the initial packets from each zombie source client will only receive Fair Service.
I have asked Don Cohen to reply here in more detail. Letâ(TM)s see what he has to say.
There was one funny post about the lost screw comng back.
The other *hundreds* of posts were idiotic flame wars about measurement units and what not.
A more interesting discussion would be to wonder how incidents like this, which per the article are common, would impact the longevity of the space station and other proposed long-term dwellings in orbit.
> First off you need a minimum of 2x the floor space in a min 2 different geographic locations. > Second you need a min 2x the hardware at both locations. blah blah blah > You need 2 x the number of blah blah blah > Blah blah blah
Today you can do DR (Disaster Recovery) in AWS or other cloud infrastructure without needing 2x blah blah blah.
You do need 2x for *just* the database that stores truth and keeps it redundant sychronously or, in this case, near synchronous is probably good enough (OK lose a few hundred or even thousand transactions I would guess, just NOT OK to lose the entire system for a day. Jeeeesh.).
Almost all other systems can stay quiescent and not used actual cycles or energy until needed for recovery.
> Those would be the evil rich people who pay almost all of the country's income taxes? > Yeah, Socialism - where success is indeed punished, and the stuff that's taken is given > to other people. That's socialism for everybody, because it's socialism doing what it likes > to do: taking from the most productive/successful, and giving to the least. Half the country > pays no income taxes at all (or pay's negative income taxes, getting "refunds" and cash > credits on taxes they don't even pay), and the vast majority of the income taxes that are > paid are paid by a small portion of the other half.
The vast majority of the income and wealth goes to the top 10% and, actually, to the top 1%.
And their wealth comes form what they own not what they do. Gates owns/owned one third of Microsoft stock. Yes, he's smart and founded a successful company but his total fortune was based on ownership of stock, the value of which was created by workers at Microsoft.
Germany is a social democracy, has a standard of living higher than the United States, is a net exporting manufacturing economy, and has free tuition for all strudents at all levels.
All of the above contradict your Libertarian Fundamentalist religious-like views.
BTW, I am a socialist and I am for *more* people owning things, not fewer. This Libertarian Fundamentalist clap trap about socialists wanting the gov'ment to own everything is B.S.
We should have natioanlized banks that enable all current renters to purchase their units and own them instead of paying their landlords mortgage.
See the above link for more argumentation along those lines.
So now we are going to witness the usual repartee, not to mention bull shit, of exchanges between the Libertarian Fundamentalists and reasonable people with absolutely no one changing their mind. I personally like Uber (especially the fantastic job they did no their app GUI), but also, being one of the "reasonable people", will side with those who favor government regulation and things like higher wages for working people, including Uber drivers. Libertarian fundamentalists do not believe one can provide regulations that result in better working conditions and higher wages without somehow reducing "freedom" (the freedom for those who own to acquire more wealth) or without reducing efficiency of the economy (part of the bull shit aspect of their so-called theory).
Living on Mars would be a lonely pathetic existence. One would never again see an ocean or a forest and feel and breathe the ocean mist and the forest dew, or be next to a stream with flowing water, never be able to walk outside and feel the wind and breathe the air and listen to the birds. One would be confined in a prison-like artificial shell for the rest of ones life. What a miserable life that would be. And that assumes there would not be the inevitable medical or other catastrophe.
(Watch the Flash Demo at the bottom of the page that illustrates several scenarios.).
Last I checked, CS3, where Don works, was not successful in convincing Cisco to pay attention to this solution.
The basic idea is to modify routers to use PEIP, enabling routers to provide "Fair Service". In other words, since it is impossible to determine which packets are part of DDOS attacks, the PEIP solution instead assures that all paths routing to a target victim receive equal bandwidth. In this way, an attacker (based on the path, not on the source IP) will only receive a fraction of the bandwidth to the target.
(I am never quite sure how to post on Slashdot to assure my post is part of the thread associated with a Slashdot headline. I am trying the "Post" action).
My friend Don Cohen designed PEIP, an extenstion to IP. PEIP stands for Path Enhanced Internet Protocol.
A somewhat dated but accurate explanation and demo can be seen here:
(Watch the Flash Demo at the bottom of the page that illustrates several scenarios.).
Last I checked, CS3, where Don works, was not successful in convincing Cisco to pay attention to this solution.
The basic idea is to modify routers to use PEIP, enabling routers to provide "Fair Service". In other words, since it is impossible to determine which packets are part of DDOS attacks, the PEIP solution instead assures that all paths routing to a target victim receive equal bandwidth. In this way, an attacker (based on the path, not on the source IP) will only receive a fraction of the bandwidth to the target.
Slashdot Mirror
The thing not understood by Fundamentalist Libertarians (yes, it's a religion) and other's who believe Capitalism is the only answer is that socialists (socialist has many meanings, I will unapologetically stick to mine) are not against ownership of property, they are for finding a system where MORE people have property and ownership and control of their lives. Capitalists make most of their money by virtue of what they own. I believe we could convert all renters into home owners, for example. That would require new laws making it impossible to rent a property to a person as their primary residence. And it would require replacing for-profit banks by nationalized distribute-profits-back-to-the-tax-base banks that, over a few decades buy out all current land lords (lords being a feudal concept), and replace that system by a system of much more equitably distributed ownership. Same goes for companies. Fine that a top notch PHP programmer was able to become a billionaire by being in the right place at the right time and making the right moves. In a socialist economy he would still be very well rewarded but laws requiring all employees to own part of the company along with much more progressive taxation would also help level the playing field.
Systems like in Denmark, Norwayt, and Germany just go a small step toward my above-hinted-at concept of socialism, but they are a start. Germany is a net exporting industrialized country with tax-base paid education for all and health insurance for all. If they can do it, the U.S. could do it.
See: http://oceanpark.com/blog/2013/10/no-rent-and-distributed-ownership/
Dennis Allard
Santa Monica
July 16, 2018
Rei wrote (incorrectly):
> For a bit more ($104k) you can get a 2-seater a Pipistrel Alpha Electro [wikipedia.org] with a cruising speed of 200 kph and a range of 600km.
Rei, your citation is incorrect - the above speed and range numbers are for the gas-powered trainer.
The Electric version has a one hour flight time and the article you cited does not indicate airspeed for the Alpha Electro.
Bummer, but please be careful when citing specs.
Dennis Allard
Santa Monica, California
http://oceanpark.com/
I first brought up oceanpark.com on Slackware Linux in 1993. I seem to recall it was running on an 80386 but I may very well be mistaken. It was using a 14.4 modem running gopher and FTP 24x7 and later of course served web sites. I recall when I later converted from acoustic model to DSL -- I remember doing that in stages where at first inbound packets came in through the acoustic modem and outbound went out through the faster DSL connection (I don't recall the routing and DSL shenanigans involved just now). I do recall that all that was configured without having to reboot the machine (something unimaginable for a Windows server). Those were the days man.
> asked her [my mom] if there were guns in the house, how they were stored, and who (including names and relationships) had access to them
And the appropriate answer to that would be: "None of your business".
Good = Ken Thompson (contemporary of both Gates and Jobs)
Bad = Any app (e.g. GMail iPhone app) that displays just the time or just the date or just "N days ago"
Bad = Blog posts with no date of publication shown in the body
Overrated = Apple GUIs
Bad = Windows shortcuts
Good = UNIX symlinks
When I compose or reply in iPhone GMail, there app inserts a space character to the left of the first character I enter. I am forced to manually go back and remove that space in order to avoid an ugly single character indent of my first paragraph.
slew wrote:
> Because no-one has ever in history designed a machine that could...
> * operate switchboards better than a human could
> * compute ballistic trajectories better than a human could
> * transcribe documents better than a human could
> * assemble electronics better than a human could
> * sort mail better than a human could
>
> This stuff has been going on for a couple centuries now displacing lower-middle class workers.
>
But those technologies were not Turing machines and, most importantly, they were not Turing machines that are on the verge of being able to create other Turing machine that can do *any* task done by humans now or in the future.
To look at the extreme (and so far hypothetical case), suppose we do reach a point where an AI is created that can create other AIs to replace all existing human workers? If those AIs are owned by a small number of humans, then those owner humans will, progressively, obtain all wealth since they will own the work done by all of the new AI machine workers. Society and most human work is already owned by the Capitalists but in this hypothetical extreme case, there would be no need for all but a handful of Capitalist owners (let's call then neo-Kings). What reason would the owners, the neo-Kings, have to share wealth with the no-longer-working humans (the rest of humanity)?
Basically, this is the ultimate Capitalist end point. It can't be reached unless the humans (almost all humans) that no longer have work are given enough to prevent them from removing the owners and taking ownership of the machines and putting social mechanisms into place that assure a reasonable (to be defined) distribution of wealth. Capitalism would have reached an end point where it was no longer capable, per se, of assuring that reasonable distribution of wealth.
Dennis Allard
Santa Monica
December 5, 2016
Cramer, you may be right, but one must try. You'd think that with the likes of Amazon and Netflix being affected last Friday that might rattle some cages. Cheers - Dennis (Dennis G. Allard)
PEIP marks IP packets, so UDP is also handled.
Thanks Don, the above reply was obviously from you (Don Cohen).
PEIP and Fair Service require implementation on a cooperating network of routers in which case what is encoded in each router only requires space proportional to the number of hops to the router times the number of ancestor routers of the router.
As stated in http://www.cs3-inc.com/pubs/el... :
The longest paths in the Internet are currently about 25 hops. The average is actually much less. The routers that forward packets are typically connected to no more than 16 other routers. Therefore a typicalhop should take no more than 4 bits. This gives a total of about 16 bytes for the longest paths in IPv4 (including the 4 byte explicit address) and 28 bytes in IPv6 (where the explicit address is 16 bytes).
Of course, in packets with an extra path, the expense could be twice as high. However, as noted above, these packets make up a small fraction of the traffic in the Internet. To give an idea of the value of the bandwidth being used, it is relevant to mention that the smallest possible IPv6 header is 40 bytes, whereas the smallest possible IPv4 header is 20 bytes. Most IPv4 headers are actually the minumum length. Anyone who wants to move from IPv4 to IPv6 therefore must be willing to pay 20 bytes per packet.
The time it takes a router to add its data to the path is a small constant. This should pose not a serious problem. If expanding a packet is problematic for specific routers, it would be possible to pre-allocate space. A more serious problem is that this extra data might require fragmentation. For non-attack traffic this does not seem like a major problem. TCP traffic, which comprises most of the traffic in the Internet, avoids this problem by using non-fragmentable packets to find a Path MTU. Attack traffic is discussed below.
A reasonable question is what maximum size of paths must be supported. Both IPv4 and IPv6 limit paths to 255 hops. As noted above, this is far more than any real paths. Of course, legitimate paths must not be cut off since that prevents source tracing. On the other hand, there are good reasons to limit the length to the maximum realistic path length. Something in the range of 30 hops or 16 bytes (for IPv4) seems like a reasonable limit.
PEIP and Fair Service can be efficiently encoded although it requires cooperation among a net work of routers.
Although Don Cohen's PEIP Fair Service approach is effective for the case spoofed packets it is equally effective for the case of legitimate packets.
As I state in http://oceanpark.com/blog/2016... :
PEIP and Fair Service are not overwhelmed by the âoesheer number of connectionsâ because what matters is the set of router paths leading to each host. Think of the host being targeted. Now consider the spanning tree of the graph of routers that are involved in routing packets to that host. If every router in that spanning tree has implemented Fair Service then most paths will be providing unhindered service. Even the most prolific attack can only compromise a tiny set of the router paths and even then if Fair Service is implemented all the way back to each source host, even the initial packets from each zombie source client will only receive Fair Service.
I have asked Don Cohen to reply here in more detail. Letâ(TM)s see what he has to say.
There was one funny post about the lost screw comng back.
The other *hundreds* of posts were idiotic flame wars about measurement units and what not.
A more interesting discussion would be to wonder how incidents like this, which per the article are common, would impact the longevity of the space station and other proposed long-term dwellings in orbit.
Just wondering.
An anonymous coward stated:
> First off you need a minimum of 2x the floor space in a min 2 different geographic locations.
> Second you need a min 2x the hardware at both locations. blah blah blah
> You need 2 x the number of blah blah blah
> Blah blah blah
Today you can do DR (Disaster Recovery) in AWS or other cloud infrastructure without needing 2x blah blah blah.
You do need 2x for *just* the database that stores truth and keeps it redundant sychronously or, in this case, near synchronous is probably good enough (OK lose a few hundred or even thousand transactions I would guess, just NOT OK to lose the entire system for a day. Jeeeesh.).
Almost all other systems can stay quiescent and not used actual cycles or energy until needed for recovery.
-- Dennis Allard
The more apt analogy is of course to forget the WHERE clause in: DELETE FROM ;
ScentCone stated:
> Those would be the evil rich people who pay almost all of the country's income taxes?
> Yeah, Socialism - where success is indeed punished, and the stuff that's taken is given
> to other people. That's socialism for everybody, because it's socialism doing what it likes
> to do: taking from the most productive/successful, and giving to the least. Half the country
> pays no income taxes at all (or pay's negative income taxes, getting "refunds" and cash
> credits on taxes they don't even pay), and the vast majority of the income taxes that are
> paid are paid by a small portion of the other half.
The vast majority of the income and wealth goes to the top 10% and, actually, to the top 1%.
And their wealth comes form what they own not what they do. Gates owns/owned one third
of Microsoft stock. Yes, he's smart and founded a successful company but his total fortune
was based on ownership of stock, the value of which was created by workers at Microsoft.
Albert Einstein was a socialist.
See: http://oceanpark.com/blog/2014...
Germany is a social democracy, has a standard of living higher than the United States, is a
net exporting manufacturing economy, and has free tuition for all strudents at all levels.
All of the above contradict your Libertarian Fundamentalist religious-like views.
BTW, I am a socialist and I am for *more* people owning things, not fewer. This Libertarian
Fundamentalist clap trap about socialists wanting the gov'ment to own everything is B.S.
We should have natioanlized banks that enable all current renters to purchase their units
and own them instead of paying their landlords mortgage.
See the above link for more argumentation along those lines.
Dennis Allard
Santa Monica
February 15, 2016
Reply to This
Also, you would be dead and very hard to recognize.
> so it is up to a secular and a private court system and a secular and a private police force to deal with such cases.
Like the KKK for example?
lisp is so elegant it has made all other languages look silly since 1959
javascript is strongly influenced by lisp
scala is adding lisp to a fixed up version of java that runs in a JVM and code is way less ugly to write
i hope people will discover ap5 (http://ap5.com) an extension to lisp that uses first order logic to express conditions and define n-ary relations
So now we are going to witness the usual repartee, not to mention bull shit, of exchanges between the Libertarian Fundamentalists and reasonable people with absolutely no one changing their mind. I personally like Uber (especially the fantastic job they did no their app GUI), but also, being one of the "reasonable people", will side with those who favor government regulation and things like higher wages for working people, including Uber drivers. Libertarian fundamentalists do not believe one can provide regulations that result in better working conditions and higher wages without somehow reducing "freedom" (the freedom for those who own to acquire more wealth) or without reducing efficiency of the economy (part of the bull shit aspect of their so-called theory).
Living on Mars would be a lonely pathetic existence. One would never again see an ocean or a forest and feel and breathe the ocean mist and the forest dew, or be next to a stream with flowing water, never be able to walk outside and feel the wind and breathe the air and listen to the birds. One would be confined in a prison-like artificial shell for the rest of ones life. What a miserable life that would be. And that assumes there would not be the inevitable medical or other catastrophe.
My friend Don Cohen designed PEIP, an extenstion to IP. PEIP stands for Path Enhanced Internet Protocol.
A somewhat dated but accurate explanation and demo can be seen here:
http://www.cs3-inc.com/MANAnet... [cs3-inc.com]
(Watch the Flash Demo at the bottom of the page that illustrates several scenarios.).
Last I checked, CS3, where Don works, was not successful in convincing Cisco to pay attention to this solution.
The basic idea is to modify routers to use PEIP, enabling routers to provide "Fair Service". In other words, since it is impossible to determine which packets are part of DDOS attacks, the PEIP solution instead assures that all paths routing to a target victim receive equal bandwidth. In this way, an attacker (based on the path, not on the source IP) will only receive a fraction of the bandwidth to the target.
Dennis Allard
http://oceanpark.com/ [oceanpark.com]
(I am never quite sure how to post on Slashdot to assure my post is part of the thread associated with a Slashdot headline. I am trying the "Post" action).
My friend Don Cohen designed PEIP, an extenstion to IP. PEIP stands for Path Enhanced Internet Protocol.
A somewhat dated but accurate explanation and demo can be seen here:
http://www.cs3-inc.com/MANAnet...
(Watch the Flash Demo at the bottom of the page that illustrates several scenarios.).
Last I checked, CS3, where Don works, was not successful in convincing Cisco to pay attention to this solution.
The basic idea is to modify routers to use PEIP, enabling routers to provide "Fair Service". In other words, since it is impossible to determine which packets are part of DDOS attacks, the PEIP solution instead assures that all paths routing to a target victim receive equal bandwidth. In this way, an attacker (based on the path, not on the source IP) will only receive a fraction of the bandwidth to the target.
Dennis Allard
http://oceanpark.com/
Yeah. Google and Amazon think Linux works. That's why they use it for their servers.