I would call it narrow minded. It is like the famous Microsoft quote from the 1980's that people will never need more than 64k of RAM.
Voice, video, Internet data access and access to your (and your family's) data and devices from anywhere at anytime are some of the things this amount of bandwidth can bring. This would spell death to traditional telco business. Which is probably why you do not see anything close to it for now in the US.
You can write it either way. M and N are the same sound in Japanese. There are 13 sounds in English that do not exist in Japanese hence the pronounciation problems sometimes.
My wife is Japanese and we go over there often. Japan already has 26Mbit ADSL (vs. lame 768k in the US).
It is actually 26Mbit down and 1.5Mbit up. Which still kicks the butt of anything in the US. Oh yeah and it is about $30-35 US dollars a month.
It really burns me up! Why do US Telco's suck so much compared to Japan? I lived in Japan in '94-95; at that time the US was way ahead in business and home use of the Internet. Now it is a different story. I think South Korea also has awesome service. Europe?
Yahoo Broadband is one of the major service providers in Japan. YahooBB please come to the US and give us some real broadband!!
If you want to stop someone from hiding apps on ports that are usually let through (80, 22, etc.) and traffic shape (QoS) then just use a Sitara box http://www.sitaranetworks.com.
It can do up to layer 7 (application layer) classification and monitoring/reporting.
and no, I do not work for Sitara. I have done product testing with them, Packeteer and Cisco and Sitara came out on top....if only I could get one for home.....
Other vendors can do this as well. Remember that Cisco does not make their own NICs. They contract out just about everything that they sell except for the IOS. They are basically just a software and marketing company.
I went to UGA and lived in Athens afterwards. I moved up to New England because of a high paying high tech job, but wish that I would have stayed down there. ATHENS IS AWESOME! It is the coolest town that I have ever livened in.
Now, if they can only get some good paying high tech companies there it would be Nirvana.
Packetsh*tter is pretty good, but Sitara is better. I have done comparison tests and Sitara wins (www.sitaranetworks.com). It is easier to set up, does TCP rate shapping in addition to cbq, you can do Layer 3-7 QoS, and has better session fairness.
They are both WAY out of a home users price range. I think that the cheapest one's are around $3-5k.
You need to go the other way with your decimal points.
10 Mb 96 bit times 100 Mb.96 bit times GigE.096 bit times 10 GigE.0096 bit times
Also do not forget that anything not half duplex does not use CSMA/CD so it is not a shared medium.
This could include all of the speeds above.
There is a thing called jumbo frames that takes into account that faster speeds such as GigE and 10 GigE links will never be used in a shared network (other parts down the line may be but not the links that they are connected to) they allow for much larger frame sizes. The upper limit for 10Base-T and 100-BaseTX, because of backwards compatibility, is 1518 bytes long. If you make the fame size larger then you get a higher goodput. Goodput is the percentage of actual data sent in relation to bandwidth taken up by headers. Right now different vendors implement jumbo frames in their own proprietary manner because the IEEE did not make a spec for it in GigE and now 10 GigE. I think that Extreme uses something like 9,000 bytes and Cisco uses 25,000 bytes long frames. I am probably wrong on the exact numbers but just giving you an idea.
So basically 10 GigE is very fast and does not have any extra burdens because of IPG (interpacket gap).
Just as you can logically bundle 8 fastethernet ports (Fast Etherchannel in Cisco) and you can make 8 Gig ports into one big pipe (Gigachannel) I wonder when we will be able to put together 8 10 GigE ports to make 80 Gig! Now that is a backbone! That is double the speed of the not yet released OC-768.
Sorry I am just one of those guys who likes Big Pipes.
With new MRTJ connectors it is much easier to terminate fiber. You don't have to deal with all of the hypoxy glues and you can do two strands at one time. It can be just as fast as UTP now and you should not have to worry about getting fiber in your finger.
I still think that UTP to the desktop is the way to go. Fiber from closet to closet.
It seems like most of you all are just talking about the cost of the fiber cable vs a Cat6 UTP cable alone. You need to connect all of nodes (workstations) into something to create a network. Today you can get 10/100Base-TX 48 port switches. I still have not seen a 1000Base-TX in a 48 port switch yet (there could be though). I definatly have not seen a GigE 48 port switch. You would have to buy multiple probably chassis based switches to get up to the port densities in most closets - very expensive and cost prohibitive. This would probably only be done right now for security reasons. So if you connect all of your workstations up with fiber what will you connect them to?
I have been putting together backbones with fiber for years and think that is the way to go there. One question to the people who say that fiber patch cables are too fragile...what were you doing with them? They should be just as reliable as UTP patch cables when used in the proper manner. Just as you should not tie notts in UTP you do not tie notts in Fiber.
I think that a good migration path is to just buy 10/100/1000 NICs for new PCs and Servers and in the future (2-3 years?) you can swtich out your older 10/100 switches for GigE copper to the desktop and keep the backbone fiber.
There are 10 GigE interfaces that are starting to be sold by vendors, but from what I have read the vast magority of them can not do 10Gig of throughput - So give them a couple of years.
Right now it is good to stick with 10/100 because most PC can't trasmit over 4-20 Megabits. Pretty lame huh? The most that I ever saw a PC do was about 40 Megabit. Well below the 200Mb that a NIC set to 100 full can theoreticaly do.
Cat5e can definately do Gig speeds. Just for your info the 10GigE Copper Task Force is/was supposed to start creating the specs for 10 Gig over copper 6 months after the 10GigE (802.3ae) was finalized.
Well enough of my blabbing. Do whatever makes you happiest.
When I lived in Japan (1995 time frame)the connection choices and rates were pretty lame. I think that for most of the country they still are. You are living in Tokyo so you have more choices. I believe that most people are still using slow dial up that you have to pay every minute for plus the monthly charge. I think that a lot of people just e-mail through their phones. Lots of short messages.
Just my 2 cents. I don't think that Japan is way far ahead of the US in terms of broadband. South Korea may be pretty ahead though. I have heard that Canada also has some pretty good services as well.
I lived in Japan before and the cell phone service and phones there kick the US's butt!!!
It made me mad as an American that we were so lacking in the US. From what I have heard from friends in Europe, the US is 5 years or so behind in, I guess that you could say, mobile communications. That is a long time in technology years. The web (not the internet) was just beginning about 5-6 years ago.
To me the US government has to take the ultimate blame on this one. I am sure that all of the companies in most of the world did not say hey lets all use the same technologies so that we can make it easier and cheaper for customers. It was more than likely some companies and the governments around the world that set the standards that all of the service providers and vendors had to adhere to.
I have been mad about this one for about 6 years. BTW if you think that the cell phones that we have in the US now are small.... Japan had them 6 years ago. Back then all we had was the CRAPPY Motorola Big Grey Brick phones (people still thought they were cool to have them - LAME). We are still a generation or two behind everyone else. They make the new stuff for the home markets and then sometime come out with a version for the US of A. This pisses me off.
OK I will be a good boy and shut up now. I just do not like being in second place which where the US definitely is in this technology.
AndyMcL
Re:Works only with cat 5 air
on
802.11b at 22mbps
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How could this post be considered "Insightful"?
I would call it narrow minded. It is like the famous Microsoft quote from the 1980's that people will never need more than 64k of RAM.
Voice, video, Internet data access and access to your (and your family's) data and devices from anywhere at anytime are some of the things this amount of bandwidth can bring. This would spell death to traditional telco business. Which is probably why you do not see anything close to it for now in the US.
-Andy
You can write it either way. M and N are the same sound in Japanese. There are 13 sounds in English that do not exist in Japanese hence the pronounciation problems sometimes.
I have seen it both ways.
-Andy
My wife is Japanese and we go over there often. Japan already has 26Mbit ADSL (vs. lame 768k in the US).
It is actually 26Mbit down and 1.5Mbit up. Which still kicks the butt of anything in the US. Oh yeah and it is about $30-35 US dollars a month.
It really burns me up! Why do US Telco's suck so much compared to Japan? I lived in Japan in '94-95; at that time the US was way ahead in business and home use of the Internet. Now it is a different story. I think South Korea also has awesome service. Europe?
Yahoo Broadband is one of the major service providers in Japan. YahooBB please come to the US and give us some real broadband!!
-Andy
Is this guy looney? Who would pay for all of the energy, admin and other costs?
If you want to stop someone from hiding apps on ports that are usually let through (80, 22, etc.) and traffic shape (QoS) then just use a Sitara box http://www.sitaranetworks.com .
...if only I could get one for home.....
It can do up to layer 7 (application layer) classification and monitoring/reporting.
and no, I do not work for Sitara. I have done product testing with them, Packeteer and Cisco and Sitara came out on top.
Andy
It is called Promiscuous mode.
Other vendors can do this as well. Remember that Cisco does not make their own NICs. They contract out just about everything that they sell except for the IOS. They are basically just a software and marketing company.
Andy
It is called Promiscuous mode.
Other vendors can do this as well.
Andy
It looks like it has already been slashdotted. :-S
Looks like a great system. Thank you for the post.
Andy
I have always known it as Private Branch Exchange too.
;-)
I guess that the people who say it is Public Branch Exchange are the same people who think that Duct Tape is Duck Tape.
I went to UGA and lived in Athens afterwards. I moved up to New England because of a high paying high tech job, but wish that I would have stayed down there. ATHENS IS AWESOME! It is the coolest town that I have ever livened in.
Now, if they can only get some good paying high tech companies there it would be Nirvana.
Andy
>Hope standard-BIOSes will support booting from memory sticks soon :)
;-)
So Does Sony.
Andy
Packetsh*tter is pretty good, but Sitara is better. I have done comparison tests and Sitara wins (www.sitaranetworks.com). It is easier to set up, does TCP rate shapping in addition to cbq, you can do Layer 3-7 QoS, and has better session fairness.
They are both WAY out of a home users price range.
I think that the cheapest one's are around $3-5k.
That is just my 2 cents.
AndyMcL
You need to go the other way with your decimal points.
.96 bit times .096 bit times .0096 bit times
10 Mb 96 bit times
100 Mb
GigE
10 GigE
Also do not forget that anything not half duplex does not use CSMA/CD so it is not a shared medium.
This could include all of the speeds above.
There is a thing called jumbo frames that takes into account that faster speeds such as GigE and 10 GigE links will never be used in a shared network (other parts down the line may be but not the links that they are connected to) they allow for much larger frame sizes. The upper limit for 10Base-T and 100-BaseTX, because of backwards compatibility, is 1518 bytes long. If you make the fame size larger then you get a higher goodput. Goodput is the percentage of actual data sent in relation to bandwidth taken up by headers. Right now different vendors implement jumbo frames in their own proprietary manner because the IEEE did not make a spec for it in GigE and now 10 GigE. I think that Extreme uses something like 9,000 bytes and Cisco uses 25,000 bytes long frames. I am probably wrong on the exact numbers but just giving you an idea.
So basically 10 GigE is very fast and does not have any extra burdens because of IPG (interpacket gap).
AndyMcL
Just as you can logically bundle 8 fastethernet ports (Fast Etherchannel in Cisco) and you can make 8 Gig ports into one big pipe (Gigachannel) I wonder when we will be able to put together 8 10 GigE ports to make 80 Gig! Now that is a backbone! That is double the speed of the not yet released OC-768.
Sorry I am just one of those guys who likes Big Pipes.
AndyMcL (speed junkie)
100 half duplex is 100 Mb
100 full duplex is 200 Mb because you do not have the 50% hit to performance because of CSMA/CD.
The only server that I have personally seen reach 12 MB (96 Mb) per second were 2 SGI Origin 2000's FTPing files to each other.
AndyMcL
You use all 4 pairs with Gig so it does equal 1 Gig. Do your research.
AndyMcL
With new MRTJ connectors it is much easier to terminate fiber. You don't have to deal with all of the hypoxy glues and you can do two strands at one time. It can be just as fast as UTP now and you should not have to worry about getting fiber in your finger.
I still think that UTP to the desktop is the way to go. Fiber from closet to closet.
AndyMcL
It seems like most of you all are just talking about the cost of the fiber cable vs a Cat6 UTP cable alone. You need to connect all of nodes (workstations) into something to create a network. Today you can get 10/100Base-TX 48 port switches. I still have not seen a 1000Base-TX in a 48 port switch yet (there could be though). I definatly have not seen a GigE 48 port switch. You would have to buy multiple probably chassis based switches to get up to the port densities in most closets - very expensive and cost prohibitive. This would probably only be done right now for security reasons. So if you connect all of your workstations up with fiber what will you connect them to?
I have been putting together backbones with fiber for years and think that is the way to go there. One question to the people who say that fiber patch cables are too fragile...what were you doing with them? They should be just as reliable as UTP patch cables when used in the proper manner. Just as you should not tie notts in UTP you do not tie notts in Fiber.
I think that a good migration path is to just buy 10/100/1000 NICs for new PCs and Servers and in the future (2-3 years?) you can swtich out your older 10/100 switches for GigE copper to the desktop and keep the backbone fiber.
There are 10 GigE interfaces that are starting to be sold by vendors, but from what I have read the vast magority of them can not do 10Gig of throughput - So give them a couple of years.
Right now it is good to stick with 10/100 because most PC can't trasmit over 4-20 Megabits. Pretty lame huh? The most that I ever saw a PC do was about 40 Megabit. Well below the 200Mb that a NIC set to 100 full can theoreticaly do.
Cat5e can definately do Gig speeds. Just for your info the 10GigE Copper Task Force is/was supposed to start creating the specs for 10 Gig over copper 6 months after the 10GigE (802.3ae) was finalized.
Well enough of my blabbing. Do whatever makes you happiest.
Andy
When I lived in Japan (1995 time frame)the connection choices and rates were pretty lame. I think that for most of the country they still are. You are living in Tokyo so you have more choices. I believe that most people are still using slow dial up that you have to pay every minute for plus the monthly charge. I think that a lot of people just e-mail through their phones. Lots of short messages.
Just my 2 cents. I don't think that Japan is way far ahead of the US in terms of broadband. South Korea may be pretty ahead though. I have heard that Canada also has some pretty good services as well.
Andy
I lived in Japan before and the cell phone service and phones there kick the US's butt!!!
It made me mad as an American that we were so lacking in the US. From what I have heard from friends in Europe, the US is 5 years or so behind in, I guess that you could say, mobile communications. That is a long time in technology years. The web (not the internet) was just beginning about 5-6 years ago.
To me the US government has to take the ultimate blame on this one. I am sure that all of the companies in most of the world did not say hey lets all use the same technologies so that we can make it easier and cheaper for customers. It was more than likely some companies and the governments around the world that set the standards that all of the service providers and vendors had to adhere to.
I have been mad about this one for about 6 years. BTW if you think that the cell phones that we have in the US now are small.... Japan had them 6 years ago. Back then all we had was the CRAPPY Motorola Big Grey Brick phones (people still thought they were cool to have them - LAME). We are still a generation or two behind everyone else. They make the new stuff for the home markets and then sometime come out with a version for the US of A. This pisses me off.
OK I will be a good boy and shut up now. I just do not like being in second place which where the US definitely is in this technology.
AndyMcL
HAHAHAHAHA! That was a good one!
AndyMcL