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Wireless Clouds for Good and Ill
dr_delete sent in a story about Athens, Georgia joining the ranks of municipalities creating free public wireless networks. In a counterpoint to that, we have the Pentagon cracking down on wireless devices, trying to control information leakage. And Newsforge has a story about starting your own wireless ISP. Nifty stuff.
From the city that spawned the greatest band ever.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
hmm, I havent ever seen a cloud tethered to anything, so I reckon we've had wireless clouds for a while now.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Y'know, ILL doesn't really work well in that font...
Just saying...
- sig? who is this sig of which you speak?
.. there is an active effort underway to build a national wireless network. It's over at consume.net. Unfortunately the uptake seems rather slow with too many people just interested and not active.
The BBC had a good story last week about warchalking which is a grass-roots effort to track down wireless networks so anyone can use them. Unfortunately the warchalking web site is no longer being updated because the owner, Matt Jones, wants to sell the domain and hand the project over to someone else.
I went to UGA and lived in Athens afterwards. I moved up to New England because of a high paying high tech job, but wish that I would have stayed down there. ATHENS IS AWESOME! It is the coolest town that I have ever livened in.
Now, if they can only get some good paying high tech companies there it would be Nirvana.
Andy
If you see a faded sign at the side of the road that says 1.5 Mbits at the...
Which is how I orignally read that. Hooray for proofreading how headlines will appear!
That green slime had it coming.
Is that the number of secure wireless networks?
Anyone remember when a small group of people, disaffected with CompuSpend and other BBS corps got together and formed their own distributed network, based on private citizen's telco services? Wondering if the same thing will happen with medium-to-wide area networks? I mean, now that the 802.whateveritwas hack-thing is out there (you know, the one that lets you do wireless over medium-area distances), how long before people shuck off the "shackles" of their ISP and start forming small Winternet groups?
;-)
(Oh god, I might have just coined something. Quick! Alert Wired! =] )
The logistics of gluing small (urban?) 'clouds' together comes down to boundary-routing. Now, if only there was an 802.somethingelse hack that let these 'clouds' contact each other over inter-city distances, the Winternet wouldn't depend on Spring or Bellnexxia or whoever is backboning, today.
Cross your fingers.
.f00Dave
A quick read through that story shows nothing out of the ordinary. Anything that transmits something over air (cell phones, pagers, walkie-talkies, etc) is already banned from military and other government buildings, except in approved circumstances where the equipment was purchased by the gov't, or approved areas of certain buildings. I dont really see the "news" in that story.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
There no moving parts to WiFi, so there's nothing to ever wear out. And the "media" is even cheaper than $1 floppies -- it's free!
Hmmm, now the only problem is geting companies to agree to a standard for the devices so there's no drivers. And some standard protocol so that everyone can always interchanged data. How many decades will that take? *grin* I suppose you shouldn't toss out your 3 1/2 " drives just yet...
It looks like all the mid-sized cities are in a footrace. The City Commission wants to be an early adopter, and one vocal critic has been making some noise (sorry--no link b/c the local rag doesn't have the story in their web archive) even suggesting to demonstrate its vulnerability. How many repeats of this will we need before people start to pay attention?
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
Any attempt by the federal government to further limit the ability of United States citizens to monitor and/or use the airwaves in the United States is a grave mistake. In times of crises the use of radio and similar communication devices by amateurs has helped immensely. Had they been invented at the time, our forefathers would have suggested having a radio in addition to powder, ball, and musket.
I am not suggesting that such technologies shouldn't be regulated. Airwave frequencies must be regulated! What I am saying is that as soon as radio communications are restricted for use by military and commercial purposes only, than liberties ears may be silenced forever.
Is that some obscure USAsian culture humour? Please advise, I just don't get it!
They may have to start raising local taxes for this.
When I saw the Pentagon mentioned along with a crackdown, I expected something about them cracking down on citizens. Instead it is simply about the Pentagon taking the wise move to curtail wireless WITHIN the military only use until they can be assured it can be used securely. That strikes me as a smart move, closing a hole that a terrorist or assassin might have otherwise used. Its good to see those in the Pentagon using their brains and thinking of interesting ways they might have security problems rather than having a tragedy happen first.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
http://www.fixwindows.com
Step one, find geeky friends within community. Step two, convince them the T1 should be at your house. Step three, setup equipment, use wireless repeaters ect, make sure that when you actually order the T1, that you get enough IP addresses to avoid NAT Step four, assign your traffic as priority, with a maximum of 98% of the bandwidth, and claim you don't know what the problem is
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
Now Ort and Ed Tant can pester people all over the world and not take time off from pestering people on the street.
You complain when corporations provide it, then you complain when the government does it. So who should provide it then? Internet access doesn't grow on trees you know.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Athens isn't the only place starting things like this. Valdosta State University has a wireless network spread out over most of the campus. Supposedly there is Wi-Fi being setup in Valdosta itself, nothing known whether or not it is a free service venture.
GA Tech also has a couple of projects going on here and here.
Georgia Southwestern State University also has an endeavour. As does the Medical College of Georgia.
I am a meat popsicle.
Anyone considering doing this in Austin?
Didn't you mean for Good and 666?
PLEASE tell me they don't actually type like that all the time...
for (i = 32; i < 127; i++) {
for (j = i+1; j < 127; j++) {
if (Identical(bitmap[i], bitmap[j])) {
printf("bad font, try again\n");
exit(1);
}
}
}
Surely you don't argue that the govt shouldn't provide infrastructure such as water, waster water, roads etc.
Why is it ok for the govt to provide other types of infrastructure but not communications infrastructure?
How is it that an Athens network with 1 node gets a spot on CNN TV and online, and in the AJC, yet the The Atlanta FreeNet can't get diddly even though it tries? I mean, look at their website that CNN Linked to... December meeting minutes?!?! Please.
Also, why don't they use the same line with guns. "The gun industry is inherently irresponsible because guns are inherently dangerous and insecure" or "The airline industry is acting irresponsibly because they don't have locks on the cockpit doors."
I think what many people fail to see is that originally, the internet was based on a trust system. It was more important to get data through then to protect them. That however has changed. However, we shouldn't tell the industry to stop innovating because of the potential for misuse. Wireless devices are a great leap from the wired networks of prior. And it is widely known that anything going over a public network is inherently insecure.
I would argue that this "cybersecurity advisor" really has no idea what he's talking about.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
As nice as wireless internet is, the last thing we need inundating the countryside is more radio waves. We already have a couple different communication mediums blasting through our bodies (and quite possibly disturbing our cells) at every imaginable angle and mind boggling frequency. Maybe we should stop violating every inch of humanity with radiation just for the sake of bandwidth.
Big clouds of radio communication hovering over the populace just don't seem that appealing, especially when most of it is counterstrike and porn.
President Bush's top cybersecurity adviser, Richard Clarke, said the technology industry was acting irresponsibly by selling wireless tools such as computer network devices that remain remarkably easy for hackers to attack.
The industry's most common data-scrambling technique designed to keep out eavesdroppers, called the wireless encryption protocol, can be broken -- usually in less than five minutes -- with software available on the Internet.
A few years ago, the U.S. government attempted to make all encryption crackable by government agencies by mandating key escrow or weak encryption. At one point, they even tried to jail Phil Zimmermann for creating and publishing PGP. Now they're berating vendors for making encryption in their products too weak and have become advocates for strong consumer encryption. Other countries that have had no encryption controls in the past are now trying to adopt key escrow requirements.
I find the reversal fascinating. Few easier ways exist to execute an electronic wiretap than to packet-sniff the subject's WiFi connection. I'm curious if there are internal struggles over encryption policy.
It should be a community based network, setup like the Internet was at universities in the 90's. Nobody cared what you were doing as long as the servers stayed up, and the men in black didn't show up. Just apply power to the computers/servers in a room somewhere, hook up some wireless stuff, and let the community pay a 1 time fee for hardware and then a bandwidth charge per month. It should be less than $10. And you can use your laptop anywhere in the city.
I keep seeing people mention ordering a T1 for Internet access for the wireless network. Why not use DSL? If someone is just going to setup a network for neighbors or the community is there a problem with DSL?
How is this at all counter to the preceding story? Though I think 802.11x devices are suitable for trivial and lightweight network traffic, I don't use it at home because of inherent security flaws (among other reasons). Similarly, I don't give out my credit card info over my cordless or cellular phones. Yes, fine, I'm paranoid though my needs for secrecy - as a private citizen - are relatively moderate.
However, I certainly don't see any reason why the US military shouldn't regulate the use of largely unregulated communications within its own sphere of influence. Seriously, these are some of the same people who modify computers for zero electromagnetic emissions. Why wouldn't they want to minimize the risks inherent in utilizing unsecured public bandwidth?
For good and three?
:P
huh?
This is exactly what the US needs. More options. It's so limited now. If you are lucky you can choose from a set of one (1) cable ISP. We need to see more of this in the communications industry. It would be nice, for example, to see cell phones cost comparitively close to land lines, if not cheaper. Japan can do it, so can we. We just need more far-sighted people.
TodayTM BillyJoelTM GoogleTMd for StitchTMes due to WindowsTM while RollerbladeTMing with an AppleTM and a PopsicleTM
I can see it now: "If you Wi-Fi in Athens to sell off your $20,000 stash of NASCAR collectables on E-bay... you might be a redneck." "If you use the Athens Wireless Network to update your "I love Dale Earnhardt" webpage... You might be a redneck."
There may be no "I" in team, but there's also no "F" in way.
The boy, who is 12 years old, told an anti-terrorism court in the southern Punjab city of Dera Ghazi Khan that he was sodomised by a group of men in June including an American journalist Jon Katz.
/. staff.
12 is too old for anyone on the
Where are my moderator points when I need them.
Military dude A: Hey, hadn't I better send you those top secret plans?
Military dude B: Uh, I guess so.
Military dude A: OK, I'm sending it now.
Military dude B: Are you doing it securely?
Military dude A: Nah, takes too long.
Military dude B: Oh, OK.
Meanwhile, outside...
Cracker: This is so cool! I've just managed to snag the plans for a top-secret quantum computer!
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
The problem is, despite the best of intentions, someone has to be in charge somehow. The reason you were able to have it set up by "the community" in a university is because that community was full of peopel who know how to do that. But in the wider community of say a city, there isn't enough expertise to go around, at least I don't think there is. I suppose if there were enough volunteers one could set this up, but you would have to find enough volunteers in that general area. You would also then have to find a way to pay for the equipment as well as the connection to the main internet.
Another problem is that, even in the universities, someone was in charge of this, and at some point they did start caring who did what, just try to log into Napster or any service which happens to use one of the popular Napster ports from a university and you will see what I mean.
The moral is, someone will eventually take control of the network and there is no way to guarentee that it won't ever happen. If we start with a community based system, eventually it will get taken over by either a company or local, state or federal government. If anything, it may be best to keep it in the local government because at least then it is easier to be heard than if it was all run by the feds, where only the rich are allowed to talk to the powerful.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Winternet were my dialup ISP before I got cable. They are still going.
--
E_NOSIG
Ok, I don't know who modded this person down as troll, but that was wrong. Far as I can see, this person was modded troll because the moderator didn't agree with their viewpoint.
I didn't agree with them either as you can see by my post in reply to them, but save -1 troll for the real trolls, or better yet, modding up the GOOD posts, let those with endless mod points deal with the real trolls.
But if you must mod troll, do it real trolling, not just because you do not agree with a post. If you don't agree, REPLY and make your rebuttle, don't just slap someone down to where no one will read them, otherwise you become no better than the censors (DMCA anyone?) us Slashdotters all lothe.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
To quote myself:
Here's what you need: a WiFi device; a public node; a CueCat or any other barcode scanner. If you're all geared up, then you can jump the gun on ubiquitous computing. You might use sem@code, a barcode that encodes a URL. With a wireless or mobile internet device, you just scan the barcode into your URL field, and voila! you load the website it links to.
Sem@codes are public tags for URLs. This is not pie-in-the-sky stuff: for example, over three million CueCat scanners were distributed (you can get one on eBay). With that or any other barcode scanner attached to your laptop, you can read semacodes. In addition, your or anyone else can generate sem@codes with open-source software online.
Simon
home page
Not an exageration. Indeed, there is a propensity for holding "Gun and Computer" shows in the civic centers of rural Georgia.
You may laugh, but the modern redneck knows computers like they know guns and trucks. And they were into HAM and CBs long before the teenybopper set learned the advantages of cell phones.
Of course, Athens isn't exactly a redneck Mecca. It's more like the Berkeley of Georgia.
Obviously influenced by the free wireless network advocacy message in their first smash hit, Radio Free Europe...
Most adults who actually live in Athens tend to avoid downtown. Based on this fact, a wireless network sponsored by UGA and the government translates into the government trying to appease the university at the expense of its own full-time residents (yet again!). Apparently, UGA can't even get it right as the all the computer/technology departments at UGA are on South Campus, which is much further away from downtown than the liberal arts-heavy North Campus. If they're trying to deploy this technology and actually have students that will use (and test) it, they started on the wrong end of campus!
Great idea, bad implementation plan. Very few of the full-time citizens will ever get any use out of this technology, yet they will be the ones stuck paying for it.
PS: Before anyone from Athens gets all high-and-mighty about the wonders of downtown, I lived 28 years in or near Athens, and I remember when downtown was the best place to go in Athens. Alas, the mall opened up across town and downtown was abandoned. What's there now is a shadow of what it once was.
As a graduate of computer engineering I sure would have loved to sit in the middle of downtown Athens (or on Bowman Field in Clemson where I went to school) and watch all the cute girls while having a remote X client window open to work on all my silly little projects. Of course, I may not have graduated then...
PS: The story is here too
~ now you know
The industry's most common data-scrambling technique designed to keep out eavesdroppers, called the wireless encryption protocol, can be broken -- usually in less than five minutes -- with software available on the Internet.
WEP actually stands for Wired Equivalent Privacy. It was intended as a means of ensuring that wireless users could have the same level of privacy as users using a wired network-- not as an secure communications protocol. (Of course, WEP does not even provide that level of "privacy").
Aren't there better privacy/security options available for Wireless devices?
"...trying to control information leakage."
It's worth noting that this was how we spied on the soviets for years during the cold war-- Through wireless phone communications before they learned that some of that stuff might be better off encrypted or left to land-lines. That and rigging their Xerox machines when they were first invented for photo duplication ^__^
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I'm currently sitting just within the edge of this cloud on Clayton street. Of course, I have no wi-fi devices to play with right now, but who knows....
I'm kind of surprised this made it to CNN, it's really underplayed around Campus, you don't hear a lot about it. Also, I'm wondering how toe UGA infrastructure will handle it, they are notorious for poor network performance despite MASSIVE bandwidth.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
I was just in the Pentagon last week, and I was shocked at the stuff people had in secure locations in there... Cell phones, wireless PDAs, digital cameras... All stuff that's forbidden at my normal secure site. It's nice to see that they're cracking down on it!
My vision is really goofed up today, I thought the title of the story was:
...oopppps...
"Wireless Clowns for Good and Ill"
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Because whoever provides the infrastructure also controls the infrastructure.
It would be nice - and extrememly cool - to be able to get out from under the thumb of my DSL provider while giving (selling!!) access to others in the area. Given that this appears to be cheap (equipment + fast connection to share + time = ????) it is very tempting...
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
You complain when corporations provide it,
I do? Could've fooled me...
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Actually yeah, I do.
Water--people and businesses realize they need water to operate and live. Businesses also realize that their customers need water in order to live. A business, thus, has every reason to ensure that clean, affordable water is provided. Similarly, neighborhood associations and other voluntary organizations of individuals would be able to take care of maintaining water lines in their neighborhoods.
The same is true for roads--businesses realize they need roads to operate, so they would have every reason to maintain decent roads (available at no cost to the public) so that both customers and the goods the business sells can arrive at the location quickly and safely. And again, people need roads to get to work and businesses, so there is every reason for a neighborhood association to maintain roads within their area.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
At a military project office near me, you can't go inside unless you turn off your cell phone. But at the same time, they're starting to encourage Blackberry usage by providing them to senior managers, and telling contractors they'll soon need a Blackberry to stay in touch.
Since this is all being done by the Wireless Athens Group, is this all just an attempt to WAG the Dawgs?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Ironically, it appears that not being allowed to share wireless internet access without having to pay a hefty licensing fee is helping to drive the growth of non-commercial regional networks in Australia. Most of the networks I've found in the states are for the purpose of sharing someone's broadband. I have yet to find one that is for a neighborhood network that is active and growing. I guess since we can get broadband access for so cheap here, we're not driven to building giant wireless LANs in order to get more bandwidth.
On a different topic, if you bridge access points, can you still control who gets to peer with your bridge? I'm thinking no, unless you filter out their packets, but maybe someone who actually knows how 802.11b works can give a definitive answer...
www.seattlewireless.net