Ya know, I want to debate this somewhat, but the other part of me realizes it will be near impossible to bring myself up to it. I agree with your point of view almost completely. I've never heard of a vulnerability in a Linux firewall, however slammer did effect Linux. It hit mysql. Being safe involves having a firewall separate from the rest of your network.
I think that is the point that has been gotten across by witty. A software firewall on a desktop computer does not mean you are safe from the outside world. A hardware firewall or a computer that you only run a firewall on is the best solution. No reason to split hairs though. I'd sleep well at night if I had a Linux box sitting without one of those in between, but if I cared about a Windows computer (heh...) there is no way I would do that.
Mindshare matters. File formats matter. I can't send someone a file in my native format that is using MS Office, I have to use a file format that has at times made my files ten times larger. It does matter when you are just putting a few files on a floppy for school. The huge MS Office files will fill it up quite quickly.
*nix users can use MSO the same as a Windows user. Crossover Office? The issue is it being native, which I guess is what you are getting at. There are other options as well. Koffice and the Gnome programs like Abiword.
Also, saying that you don't see it in your task list is a huge cop out. You don't see spyware in your task list, yet it is probably there. Even if it isn't, you know it's that way on other people's machines. Also, is there something on your task list that says "preloaded Internet Explorer" or is it bundled with Explorer? This is somewhat of a moot point anyhow, since I've never even heard this accusation. MsOffice loads like a snail when I had it, and runs just as slowly. I don't see that big of a difference between the two right now, but OO is growing while MSO is stagnating.
I take it this was trolling from your last comment. Or flamebait. It's not a must and it's not an alternative. I have friends who don't want to pay the hundreds for MS Office, so I gave them OO. They love it. That's good enough for me.
He isn't saying this specific vulnerability was the one that could have done it. He's saying that if a vulnerabilty did come along that could enable someone to do it, that he would not have patched until it was too late.
I wouldn't have either possibly, the point being you have to be sure that people can't get to your boxes like that. Either by patching or having layers of abstractions to stop it from happening. Most likely both.
It's more of a hypothetical at this point, but saying "it will never happen to me/us!" is bad policy.
Ermmm... Actually, IE has a bug that lets you not be able to even see that the link is being spoofed, the others, if you read the whole URL, let you at least see that.
Hey, that's great. What if you're the type of person that clicks links? Did you know that those links could be spoofed? Did you know that is only with IE? Did you know that is what this article is about, not mistyping them? The idea of this was to show that in IE, there is no easy way to be completely safe with web sites, because of all their exploits, and instead of completely fixing them, they just tell you "Type in the URL instead of clicking links, it'll be safer with our shitty browser!" and you are telling people not to switch why?
It's not like anyone takes those ads seriously... It's free money, and a moral victory for them. It's not like they get anything besides some Linux geeks ignoring their ads in return for the money that is spent on attempting to shove their programs down unwilling throats. Money is money and is what makes places like this able to stay afloat. If it comes from an evil source, as long as they get no influence besides a little graphic on a couple of web pages, who cares?
It's not a jab at the New York Times... It's a jab at the people who bitch about the New York Times site requiring registration. They make it out to be a hell worse than death, so the article reflects that. Just a side note: I've never signed up for the NYT website.
That would be looking at computers as if they will never have a problem, a need for an upgrade, a need for someone to watch after the logs, a need for someone to take care of user land apps... Just to name a few things that someone who doesn't have any experience wouldn't be able to do cost effectively. You don't want someone who is just reading a manual attempting to administer your database or upgrading holes in an operating system. If they screw up, your down time and possible lost data will be a nightmare. Some things will get easier, but someone will always have to do certain parts of the computing process...
You could also bring up the question, as to why would MS legal want all that bad press for something like that? If they target someone who can't defend themselves, there is a huge risk for it blowing up in their face. If they pick on someone who can defend themselves, they'll probably lose the case. That's a lose-lose situation for them, no matter who they target.
It would seem unlikely that the EULA would have something in it saying that you are only allowed to use those drivers with the single operating system they came with.... Even if it did, I really doubt that would be completely enforceable? I mean, it isn't reasonable to assume that on the same computer, you can't use those drivers from an operating system that you own to access a hard drive that you own?
There was an article? Oh man... Are there usually articles attached to these little blurbs? I knew I had to be missing SOMETHING... I just assumed everyone knew more than me.
Yes, the Hulk was like watching paint dry... I couldn't even make fun of it since it was so bad. I just felt like a jackass for seeing it. Exactly the same as I would feel if I sat there watching paint dry.
Haven't heard of them. Means they don't fit some of the requirements to get people to take them seriously, such as having a ton of money and being complete assholes or at least associated with some religious group. (Note, the last thing was a joke. Laugh)
Well, actually, I used to run Windows 98se... Memory management was so bad, that I had to reset at least twice a day. For the older Windows 95, you can't go very long without needing a reinstall or having really strange shit start happening. I was at my friend's work with her, and she was on her computer. She clicked something in the program she was working in for work, and the thing did a hard lockup. She had to reset manually. That won't happen with Win2k. I've had crashes with an error box that I couldn't get rid of on Windows 98se.
There are many reasons to switch. Then again, there are many reasons not to. If you don't have the users switch, and then demo Linux, they'll be drooling at the chops. Compare something like win98 to something like a nicely configured Gentoo or Debian install and you'll have any non-techie instantly interested.
The sites you mention provide a public service. How else can a whole community effectively make new comers go "DUDE! What in the fuck did you send me to that?!?!" and all laugh together? Most people only get hit once by those sites.
I'd liken it to a practical joke compared to a bully... You don't retaliate against the joke, but you sure as shit would love to kick the shit out of the bully
That's those organizations out of hand... Instead of founding it based on the industy as a whole, why not just something for PR and governmental greasing? The reason the MPAA and RIAA are a problem is because they were made out to be an organization that also would be allowed to attack the consumer. There is no need for that. An organization that attacks stupidity in the media and hypocrisy in the government is legitimate in my opinion. The issue is though, would it turn into another group lobbying for new laws and attacking consumers? There should be ways to prevent that, and make something focused on the needs of gamers and game makers at the same time.
Is a strong arm militant group to bribe the government officials like the RIAA and MPAA. I can't even begin to think of all the racial, sexist, and otherwise hateful things I've heard in music or in movies and GTA gets hit on something completely stupid? I'm serious though. Video games are just as legitimate a form of expression and entertainment as movies and music. Why isn't it treated as such?
I can tell you that from what I've seen Access here is being presented as seemingly the only database that a user would need, along with Word, Excel, and Powerpoint as the only office apps even available. It seems like somewhat a quagmire for people to get sucked into, depending on Microsoft's crappy software.
On the educational standpoint, I think it's really hard for the students I am alongside that don't have other database experience to grasp the ideas of Access as a database. It may just be my instructor, but it would seem that they see a database as just another program that Microsoft made, and is only Access, just as Excel is spreadsheets and Word is word processing to them. I think it's a shitty habit for schools to present Microsoft upfront to students... Most of them would be crippled without it.
I may just be bitter from having to use Microsoft programs in my classes, but people aren't getting a full grasp of concepts from Access. They could be taught on top of it, but you don't NEED them. That works if you are just trying to show people how to use Access, but if you are going into real databases I don't see what Access provides as being worth the time, the money, or the effort for a school to switch. What are the benefits that they see with it? If anything, it clouds the concepts you're trying to teach in my opinion...
Now I can bitch again about how Nintendo is better than Sega. Anyone else get Nintendo power and taunt their Sega playing friends, as they popped Final Fantasy into their Super Nintendo? If they're suing people for making similar games, it looks like it just gives me another excuse to go back to my old days of Sega bashing. Of course, this time it's a Playstation that I pop my Final Fantasy into, but details don't matter.
If this applies to companies in the US at all, does anyone have the emails to all the employees at SCO? Get Linux out of the hot seat by forcing their legal team to deal with all the cases their employees will bring against them!
Sadly enough, I would not be amazed if this underhanded tactic would actually work...
I was going to mod that up after checking through that site for a bit, but then I noticed that the websites icon is a pink star... So instead of moderating I was forced to comment and make mention that I can't have a bookmark with a pink star. Sorry that I can't mod you up! Tete
Are you insinuating that having your Google results lowered is similar to genocide? Google doesn't even control the internet... People have come to rely on them because they can find what they want using Google. That's what they are trying to preserve. A legit site wouldn't have any of those things you named.
Does FreeBSD have some kind of a chronic disease? Such a young age for so many people to be sitting waiting for it to die.
In all seriousness, congratualations to the developers and supporters of FreeBSD. I'm looking at using it on the old 133 mhz sitting next to me. Wondering if that is a good idea? Probably would just serve web pages or something minimal.
What does compromised mean in this case? It would seem, from what has been said, that nothing really bad has happened. Because of the system in place, it would seem as if there is a low probability that anything on the servers were tampered with, and even if they were it wasn't allowed to get into the wild. To my understanding, there are layers of security, and only one was broken. Everything was taken down to patch that hole, so the other layers could not be penetrated. There are user land levels that people can implement with md5 checking to make sure that the packages are verified even. Question being, do you think Microsoft has been compromised through a level of their security without telling anyone about it? I'd say the chances for that are rather good. Is there any way for a user to confirm that what they are getting is correct from Microsoft? The issue being, there was no harm from this. How many Microsoft exploits have directly impacted users, and caused them harm?
Oh, wow... I was never even aware that stuff existed... OpenOffice keeps on surprising me with all the power that it has along with all the refinement. It feels like OpenOffice has passed Microsoft office in some ways, which is saying a lot. I guess I should check before I speak next time, and that OpenOffice can do exactly what he is looking for.
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Ya know, I want to debate this somewhat, but the other part of me realizes it will be near impossible to bring myself up to it. I agree with your point of view almost completely. I've never heard of a vulnerability in a Linux firewall, however slammer did effect Linux. It hit mysql. Being safe involves having a firewall separate from the rest of your network.
I think that is the point that has been gotten across by witty. A software firewall on a desktop computer does not mean you are safe from the outside world. A hardware firewall or a computer that you only run a firewall on is the best solution. No reason to split hairs though. I'd sleep well at night if I had a Linux box sitting without one of those in between, but if I cared about a Windows computer (heh...) there is no way I would do that.
Mindshare matters. File formats matter. I can't send someone a file in my native format that is using MS Office, I have to use a file format that has at times made my files ten times larger. It does matter when you are just putting a few files on a floppy for school. The huge MS Office files will fill it up quite quickly.
*nix users can use MSO the same as a Windows user. Crossover Office? The issue is it being native, which I guess is what you are getting at. There are other options as well. Koffice and the Gnome programs like Abiword.
Also, saying that you don't see it in your task list is a huge cop out. You don't see spyware in your task list, yet it is probably there. Even if it isn't, you know it's that way on other people's machines. Also, is there something on your task list that says "preloaded Internet Explorer" or is it bundled with Explorer? This is somewhat of a moot point anyhow, since I've never even heard this accusation. MsOffice loads like a snail when I had it, and runs just as slowly. I don't see that big of a difference between the two right now, but OO is growing while MSO is stagnating.
I take it this was trolling from your last comment. Or flamebait. It's not a must and it's not an alternative. I have friends who don't want to pay the hundreds for MS Office, so I gave them OO. They love it. That's good enough for me.
He isn't saying this specific vulnerability was the one that could have done it. He's saying that if a vulnerabilty did come along that could enable someone to do it, that he would not have patched until it was too late.
I wouldn't have either possibly, the point being you have to be sure that people can't get to your boxes like that. Either by patching or having layers of abstractions to stop it from happening. Most likely both.
It's more of a hypothetical at this point, but saying "it will never happen to me/us!" is bad policy.
Ermmm... Actually, IE has a bug that lets you not be able to even see that the link is being spoofed, the others, if you read the whole URL, let you at least see that.
Hey, that's great. What if you're the type of person that clicks links? Did you know that those links could be spoofed? Did you know that is only with IE? Did you know that is what this article is about, not mistyping them? The idea of this was to show that in IE, there is no easy way to be completely safe with web sites, because of all their exploits, and instead of completely fixing them, they just tell you "Type in the URL instead of clicking links, it'll be safer with our shitty browser!" and you are telling people not to switch why?
It's not like anyone takes those ads seriously... It's free money, and a moral victory for them. It's not like they get anything besides some Linux geeks ignoring their ads in return for the money that is spent on attempting to shove their programs down unwilling throats. Money is money and is what makes places like this able to stay afloat. If it comes from an evil source, as long as they get no influence besides a little graphic on a couple of web pages, who cares?
It's not a jab at the New York Times... It's a jab at the people who bitch about the New York Times site requiring registration. They make it out to be a hell worse than death, so the article reflects that. Just a side note: I've never signed up for the NYT website.
That would be looking at computers as if they will never have a problem, a need for an upgrade, a need for someone to watch after the logs, a need for someone to take care of user land apps... Just to name a few things that someone who doesn't have any experience wouldn't be able to do cost effectively. You don't want someone who is just reading a manual attempting to administer your database or upgrading holes in an operating system. If they screw up, your down time and possible lost data will be a nightmare. Some things will get easier, but someone will always have to do certain parts of the computing process...
You could also bring up the question, as to why would MS legal want all that bad press for something like that? If they target someone who can't defend themselves, there is a huge risk for it blowing up in their face. If they pick on someone who can defend themselves, they'll probably lose the case. That's a lose-lose situation for them, no matter who they target.
It would seem unlikely that the EULA would have something in it saying that you are only allowed to use those drivers with the single operating system they came with.... Even if it did, I really doubt that would be completely enforceable? I mean, it isn't reasonable to assume that on the same computer, you can't use those drivers from an operating system that you own to access a hard drive that you own?
There was an article? Oh man... Are there usually articles attached to these little blurbs? I knew I had to be missing SOMETHING... I just assumed everyone knew more than me.
Yes, the Hulk was like watching paint dry... I couldn't even make fun of it since it was so bad. I just felt like a jackass for seeing it. Exactly the same as I would feel if I sat there watching paint dry.
Haven't heard of them. Means they don't fit some of the requirements to get people to take them seriously, such as having a ton of money and being complete assholes or at least associated with some religious group. (Note, the last thing was a joke. Laugh)
Well, actually, I used to run Windows 98se... Memory management was so bad, that I had to reset at least twice a day. For the older Windows 95, you can't go very long without needing a reinstall or having really strange shit start happening. I was at my friend's work with her, and she was on her computer. She clicked something in the program she was working in for work, and the thing did a hard lockup. She had to reset manually. That won't happen with Win2k. I've had crashes with an error box that I couldn't get rid of on Windows 98se.
There are many reasons to switch. Then again, there are many reasons not to. If you don't have the users switch, and then demo Linux, they'll be drooling at the chops. Compare something like win98 to something like a nicely configured Gentoo or Debian install and you'll have any non-techie instantly interested.
The sites you mention provide a public service. How else can a whole community effectively make new comers go "DUDE! What in the fuck did you send me to that?!?!" and all laugh together? Most people only get hit once by those sites.
I'd liken it to a practical joke compared to a bully... You don't retaliate against the joke, but you sure as shit would love to kick the shit out of the bully
That's those organizations out of hand... Instead of founding it based on the industy as a whole, why not just something for PR and governmental greasing? The reason the MPAA and RIAA are a problem is because they were made out to be an organization that also would be allowed to attack the consumer. There is no need for that. An organization that attacks stupidity in the media and hypocrisy in the government is legitimate in my opinion. The issue is though, would it turn into another group lobbying for new laws and attacking consumers? There should be ways to prevent that, and make something focused on the needs of gamers and game makers at the same time.
Is a strong arm militant group to bribe the government officials like the RIAA and MPAA. I can't even begin to think of all the racial, sexist, and otherwise hateful things I've heard in music or in movies and GTA gets hit on something completely stupid? I'm serious though. Video games are just as legitimate a form of expression and entertainment as movies and music. Why isn't it treated as such?
I can tell you that from what I've seen Access here is being presented as seemingly the only database that a user would need, along with Word, Excel, and Powerpoint as the only office apps even available. It seems like somewhat a quagmire for people to get sucked into, depending on Microsoft's crappy software.
On the educational standpoint, I think it's really hard for the students I am alongside that don't have other database experience to grasp the ideas of Access as a database. It may just be my instructor, but it would seem that they see a database as just another program that Microsoft made, and is only Access, just as Excel is spreadsheets and Word is word processing to them. I think it's a shitty habit for schools to present Microsoft upfront to students... Most of them would be crippled without it.
I may just be bitter from having to use Microsoft programs in my classes, but people aren't getting a full grasp of concepts from Access. They could be taught on top of it, but you don't NEED them. That works if you are just trying to show people how to use Access, but if you are going into real databases I don't see what Access provides as being worth the time, the money, or the effort for a school to switch. What are the benefits that they see with it? If anything, it clouds the concepts you're trying to teach in my opinion...
Now I can bitch again about how Nintendo is better than Sega. Anyone else get Nintendo power and taunt their Sega playing friends, as they popped Final Fantasy into their Super Nintendo? If they're suing people for making similar games, it looks like it just gives me another excuse to go back to my old days of Sega bashing. Of course, this time it's a Playstation that I pop my Final Fantasy into, but details don't matter.
If this applies to companies in the US at all, does anyone have the emails to all the employees at SCO? Get Linux out of the hot seat by forcing their legal team to deal with all the cases their employees will bring against them!
Sadly enough, I would not be amazed if this underhanded tactic would actually work...
I was going to mod that up after checking through that site for a bit, but then I noticed that the websites icon is a pink star... So instead of moderating I was forced to comment and make mention that I can't have a bookmark with a pink star. Sorry that I can't mod you up! Tete
Are you insinuating that having your Google results lowered is similar to genocide? Google doesn't even control the internet... People have come to rely on them because they can find what they want using Google. That's what they are trying to preserve. A legit site wouldn't have any of those things you named.
Does FreeBSD have some kind of a chronic disease? Such a young age for so many people to be sitting waiting for it to die.
In all seriousness, congratualations to the developers and supporters of FreeBSD. I'm looking at using it on the old 133 mhz sitting next to me. Wondering if that is a good idea? Probably would just serve web pages or something minimal.
What does compromised mean in this case? It would seem, from what has been said, that nothing really bad has happened. Because of the system in place, it would seem as if there is a low probability that anything on the servers were tampered with, and even if they were it wasn't allowed to get into the wild. To my understanding, there are layers of security, and only one was broken. Everything was taken down to patch that hole, so the other layers could not be penetrated. There are user land levels that people can implement with md5 checking to make sure that the packages are verified even. Question being, do you think Microsoft has been compromised through a level of their security without telling anyone about it? I'd say the chances for that are rather good. Is there any way for a user to confirm that what they are getting is correct from Microsoft? The issue being, there was no harm from this. How many Microsoft exploits have directly impacted users, and caused them harm?
Oh, wow... I was never even aware that stuff existed... OpenOffice keeps on surprising me with all the power that it has along with all the refinement. It feels like OpenOffice has passed Microsoft office in some ways, which is saying a lot. I guess I should check before I speak next time, and that OpenOffice can do exactly what he is looking for.