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Rockstar Investigated Over GTA - Vice City
Jubii writes "Seems the State of Florida is about to investigate Grand Theft Auto: Vice City for possibly violating state hate crime laws. This comes right after Rockstar and Take-Two issued an apology and a promise to remove offensive dialog found in the game. This could cause significant changes for 'mature' games in the future." Since Rockstar has already apologized and pledged to update the game, is it just me, or is the state of Florida only looking to line its pockets with some best-selling game profits? Update: 12/12 00:19 GMT by S : Haitian community leaders aren't satisfied either, saying "the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now."
When I played VC, I *never* once thought, "hey, those haitians, they're pretty bloodthursty!" And you wanna know why? Cuz it's a GAME, not a how-to guide or a travel brochure!
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
I thought the whole premise of the hate crime laws was that the offender had to be doing something else illegal that was motivated by hate, and that was the only way it skirted the 1st amendment.
I guess all the people that say "slippery slope" is an invalid argument don't know much about governments or laws.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Is a strong arm militant group to bribe the government officials like the RIAA and MPAA. I can't even begin to think of all the racial, sexist, and otherwise hateful things I've heard in music or in movies and GTA gets hit on something completely stupid? I'm serious though. Video games are just as legitimate a form of expression and entertainment as movies and music. Why isn't it treated as such?
That's scary.
That GTA:VC is a generally offensive game, yet they want Rockstar to remove one relatively innocent line? It's ridiculous, because it's a game. Rockstar isn't advocating killing Haitians. They aren't encouraging people to go on killing sprees to make their own criminal empire either. It's a freaking game, a work of fiction.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
It's FICTION, and thats protected speech. No one was telling people to kill Haitians! IT IS A V-I-D-E-O G-A-M-E.
I am losing more faith in the elected officials of Florida. Keep this moron away from butterfly ballots.
How much have the people who are making these claims looked into the game? That game bashes pretty much every group out there. You have the religious right guy talking about the commy Reds and his statue/spaceship, a goth guy that goes outside when it rains or he needs milk, some happy woman who's just.. Disturbing, NPR like announcers who are money grubbing [edit].. And that's just from a radio station. So, if that game is guilty for hate crimes, it sure isn't guilty for discrimination, because it hates everyone. It's humor, guys. Get over your ego.
Things like this make me doubt the future of the human race.
This statement is false.
Video game developers are just seen as an easy target because they don't have the massive financial backing of the MPAA or RIAA (movies and music routinely have far more offensive content).
The supposed Haitian community leaders (9 times out of 10, "community leaders" are just obnoxious individuals who decide that they speak for everyone else) are simple using this as a chance to grab some attention at Rockstar's expense.
The state of Florida is just going after the cash, because they know that video games don't have enough popular esteem yet among those with power to be well-defended.
I'm going to go out and buy GTA3, just to spite them.
this has to be... quite possibly... the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. I mean common... they take the line completely out of context, and then bitch and moan over it. hey, im part italian... how about all the games/movies that portray italians as mobsters... should i rage.. NO. Its fiction... a "game"... not real. This is just another example of stupid people following other stupid people who have nothing better to do.
Wouldnt you like to be a pepper too?
So far, the results of the poll are a little under the numbers. Let's set the vote right!
Should Grand Theft Auto Vice City be pulled from the shelves?
Yes. It is racist and offensive. 20.00% 52
No. It's just a game. 21.54% 56
No. If you're offended, just don't buy it. 58.46% 152
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Before they investigate a game, they should read some studies themselves to see that a game alone won't cause someone to kill.
And where are these idiots when we see people killing Mexicans, blacks, whites, Russians, Arabs etc in movies, books and television? Are they not possible hate crimes by the definition these idiots will use to try and change/stop production of GTA:VC? You can't change rules or laws, and introduce made-up ones, just to suit your effort to garner a few votes from fanatical parents.
Besides, is there anyone on the face of the earth who might have an interest in computer games that has not seen or played GTA:VC? If there is the possibility of any damage, it has been done. The game went through the appropriate channels to get its appropriate classification (note to fanatical parents: It's an MA game! You aren't meant to get crazy when your kid plays it because you shouldn't have bought it for them in the first case!). All requirements were met for it to be sold, so no use crying about it now. Grrr. These idiots continue to make me angry. Think I'll go load up GTA:VC and kill me some stupid white men. I'll be awaiting the knock on my door from someone charing me with a hate crime.
You know, characters in Fight Club really seemed to suggest that destroying skyscrapers is a good idea. Does that mean Paulahniuk (or whoever adapted the screenplay in the case of the movie) could be prosecuted under anti-terrorism laws?
As has been said already, it's a game(/movie/book)!! Get over it!
I think I'm going to prosecute the makers of Railroad Tycoon, since we all know that railroads were built largely with immigrant labor working under harsh conditions. Do we want people to get the idea that we want harsh working conditions (or for that matter, immigrants) in this country??
I've made comments about this situation in the last thread, so I'll try not to repeat too much.
I think that this effects much more than M-rated games now that the State of Florida is getting involved. When Rockstar and Take Two self-censored, I didn't like it, but it was their decision. However, to use political muscle to try to censor the comment that the Haitian group misinterpreted is fascism. The Florida Attorney General should be removed. No matter how you slice it, it's protected speech. Not to mention, it's pretty scary that the government is trying to blatantly censor speech.
But, can the State of Florida even do anything? Does Rockstar or Take Two even have offices there?
Good work Rockstar and Take Two, now that you tried to please the Haitian community by removing the content, but because you apoligized you indirectly admitted that you were wrong when indeed you were right. You made it that much harder to say that it was protected speech considering that you wouldn't even protect it yourselves.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
In a continuation of my rant about the idiots that throw up their arms about computer games, I pose this question to the State of Florida and other like-minded idiots:
Since GTA:VC hit the shelves, how much of an increase in Hatian murders has occured? How much of an increase in Cuban murders has occured? And how many of all the Hatian/Cuban murders in the period since GTA:VC was released are not related to gang crime between existing rival gangs?
Answer me that, showing me a significant increase that can be attributed to the release of GTA:VC, and I'll eat my 80's Hawaiian shirt.
What freedom of speech protections apply to this? Does Take2 have to censor thier creative work becuase certain groups take offense to that work?
Im definetly not advocating discrimination, but it is a part of human nature. Do we have to ignore it to remain politcally correct? The same goes for certain words that are now considered taboo. But what if someone was writing a book with a character who might use those words? Do they have to censor themselves?
IMHO politcal correctness has sheilded the real issues that are part of our socity. There are people who discrimate, sterotype or hate one type of group or another. Vice city show some of that, both for humor and realism. But is covering that up going to solve the problem? I really doubt it.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Ok, lets replace the line with "kill the bastards" instead of "kill the haitians" - this makes no difference to the context. In that case, the 'particular group of people' we are being told to kill are SPECIFICALLY the X number of haitian characters shooting at us, IN THE GAME.
How this could possibly be construed as a hate crime is beyond me. Sure, they're taking a lot of incorrect and poor stereotypes into the game (italian mobsters to start with) but that's part of the stereotyped setting they're going for (almost 70s-ish).
If they were to replace all Haitian references with Aliens, it would spoil the mood and setting, but at least we wouldn't have alien activists acting like idiots about it.
As a wrestling fan, is it just me, or does this remind you of the WWE's battle with the Parents Television Council, in which the PTC attacked WWE's advertisers with bogus claims that wrestling caused children's death(including the Lionel Tate case). These attacks caused several sponsors including Coca-Cola, Wrigley's, the U.S. Army, AT&T, and Wendy's to stop advertising on WWE programming, causing WWE to tone down their programming, yet the PTC continued to attack WWE because they wanted WWE Smackdown! off the air. In Nov. 2000, WWE sued the PTC, winning a $3.5 million settlement and a public apology from the PTC's founder Brent Bozell to Vince McMahon last July.
It seems to me like the Haitian groups are only in it for publicity and money, considering that Vice City has sold close to 10 million copies(my estimate, remember that VC sold 4.5 million copies from the time of its release on Oct. 29, 2002 to the end of 2002). Take-Two can use WWE's lawsuit against the PTC as a blueprint for their own lawsuit against the Haitian-American Coalition. But then again, does the Haitian's actions really matter? Only if they succeed, which, in my opinion, they won't.
I'm sorry, what are they supposed to do with the games on the shelves now? Release magic DVD fairies that will change the dialogue to less offensive dialogue?
/shrug
What this amounts to is that the censor-happy idiots weren't able to block the game because fo the sex and violence like they wanted to, and so they had to resort to getting it on a crap charge like this.
The censors never win in the long run.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
I know it's just a game and all, but come on. I'd think it would be clear by now that making negative race related comments in any media is going to get you into trouble. It's a hard lesson for Rockstar, but they'll recover from it. They make great games, and I'm sure they're kicking themselves now for their lack of foresight.
I am not a lawyer, I am a programmer. That said IMHO, If I was the game manufacturer I would simply hide behind freedom of speech and freedom of press.
..don't tread on me..
It seems that our local governments have forgotten that freedom is the key. The judge should remind them of this and toss it out of court.
If I want to make a product, and there is a market for the product, I should be able to sell it on the market. It should be up to the retailers to decide if they want to put it on the shelf.
The leftist or rightist or whatevers will always be yelling about right and wrong, but thats their opinion and they are allowed to say it.
The product is already listed as an adult game. For end users that are responsible enough to understand the game is fiction.
"kill the Haitians" is simply a line in the plot of a fictional game. If they started a kill the Haitians advertising campaign available to the public eye, thats different.
pretzel_logic
Same old culture nazi garbage. Next it will be a "hate crime" to say anything critical of the government.
When are these idiots going to figure this out?
All Italians don't work for the mob, all lawyers aren't weasely all insane murdurous women don't look like Sharon Stone.
If you're not mature enough to play a title, you aren't mature enough to judge it.
It's impossible to alter the games that have already been sold, or at least the PS2 versions. An XBox patch might be possible, and a patch for the PC versions is almost a certainty. Still...what do they do with the PS2 versions?
The hard drive hasn't been released yet, so there appear to be only two viable options. Either try to destroy all existing copies of the game and replace them at no cost, which would cost a huge amount of money, or find some way to alter the game via a file on a memory card.
Neither of these solutions are at all financially feasible for Rockstar. Unless the state of Florida is willing to pay to replace all existing copies of the game, I suggest they stop bitching ASAP.
Goo goo g'joob.
*Disclaimer -- I think this whole situation is moronic and I do not agree with what I am about to say. It is more of a devil's advocate sort of thing.* IANAL, but I can offer a thought. The argument can be made that Rockstar is encouraging the killing of all Hatians. That is not speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment. I am not free to say I am going to kill the president, nor am I free to tell someone else to go commit genocide. I believe the Haitian Community leaders can make this overly-weak argument.
.. I am making fun of this ethnic group at every opportunity.
They weren't targeted specifically in the game. The game leveraged and/or poked fun at a plethora of stereotypes. They need to get the fuck over it.
In my opinion, I think the point at which Rockstar lost was the instant they decided to issue a statement apologizing to the Haitian community, they basically said "we are wrong, everyone feel free to sue us now, because we admit defeat".
Rockstar should have done the right thing for all games everywhere and fought this out in court as a free speech issue, which it clearly is.
Wont be long till we see other developers and publishers get sued, or worst of all banned or censored industry wide. If you though games were getting too many sequels and relying too much on franchise IP because publishers were not will to take risks, I can only imagine how much harder it will be to make original games with realistic content.
In order to satisfy the demands of the florida haitian community, Rockstar has degun devellopment in a time machine that will be used to go back in time in order to remove offensive content from their game.
The machine will then be used to back to the paleozoic era and Rockstar employees will then wipe out all life on earth as we know it, applying the only possible way to never offend anyone ever again.
You can't take the sky from me...
From a Miami Herald story about the issue:
"American society is racist, even though there are antiracist laws," Lesly Voltaire, minister for Haitians living abroad, told The Herald. "It's based on a formerly slave-owning society, which has left its mark, and there are people who think they can make money on that racism."
And it's not offensive and prejudicial when a government official from another country makes a judgement on an entire society based on a practice abolished over 100 years ago?
The world makes me so mad, and this issue is just idiotic.
--- "Yeah, I'm a bit stressed out. I have a research paper due tomorrow and it has to be +5, Insightful."
"the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now."
I can see eBay auctions now:
-- BANNED uncensored GTA game!
-- rare GTA original version, low re$erve!
-- HOT GTA GAME recalled InSuLtInG FUNNY!
There is a ton of tongue-in-cheek ethnic humor in that game. Jaysus Christ on a jumped-up, chariot driven crutch --- will Comedy Central be the next target?!
According to the game script found on Gamefaqs.com, the line "Kill all the Haitians" is not said by any of the characters in the game! NOT ONE!!
If that is the case, then Rockstar/Take-Two is owed an apology by every single one of these Haitian popcorn farts.
Free Speech.
I know this will result in a discussion of "is it ok to make potentially racist material available to children?" but IMHO, that's where parenting comes in.
Cogito Eggo Sum, I think therefore I'm a waffle
I would understand if Haitians were the only ethnic group singled out for mindless killing, but honestly....at a point in the game, you actually -work- for the Haitians, specifically for the purpose of killing the rival Cubans. At other points in the game, you kill Italians, French, Colombians, hell, I think I even killed some seagulls. If one took killing people out (and don't whine about ethnicity - in case it's not obvious, -everyone- is part of some ethnicity), you'd have.....nothing. And if you have a problem with killing in general........ DON'T BUY THE FSCKING GAME!!!!! I swear, we need to hold a telethon for these people......
sig? uhh, umm, ok
"Giving low point scores to all the vowels is clearly racist" said Aiiiaoa Oaoaiuuii for the Hawaiian state prosecutor's office.
World Scrabble champion Hzbrgzny Zgknyskqjz of Poland is rumoured to be a key witness for the defence at the trial.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
The (most likely) goal of the apology is to quell criticism that might adversely affect the sales of their games, current and future.
If the apology does not accomplish that goal, perhaps they should now retract it. Use the resulting publicity to take a stand for free speech and gain some noteriety.
Just a thought. I haven't done a full analysis, I really can't without intimate knowledge about Rockstar etc., but it's worth thinking about. If the recipients aren't going to be gracious about it, perhaps it's time to stop bending over for them.
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
Well, if a game were to attempt to motivate people to commit genocide, then yes, I'd agree, it probably violates some law. The problem is, even out of context, "kill the Haitians" doesn't imply killing a group of people from a particular community. It implies killing specific people, i.e. a gang. Since the Haitians that the line referred to was in reference to that gang, it's even harder to bend the facts in order to support the idea that Vice City is anti-Haitian.
Frankly, this whole fiasco is doing more to make people dislike the Haitian Community than anything Vice City did. Nobody likes misunderstanding to be used for frivilous lawsuits and the like.
"Derp de derp."
I'm a current resident of florida, and a proud owner of Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City. I never once felt the desire to carry out any acts of violence at a particular ethnic group after playing the GTA series.
What is so special about that game is that it makes fun of EVERYONE equally, there is no one safe from the dark humor of the game's authors.
I think in Florida you will find an extremly large difference of opinion depending on the age group, and between Orlando / Tampa / Miami.
A lot of the younger people (20-30) like myself moved from out of state to Orlando and find it to be a modern and happy place to live. I have no idea who would want to move to Tampa or Miami though. I can tell you this, in Orlando a VERY high percentage of the people I know in my age group play Grand Theft Auto.
Long live Rockstar, i really dont even think they should start pulling out one liners like the one the Miami people had issue with, if they do that they are going to open themself up to a storm of other groups asking similar things.
The Ro Factor - Jeep/Linux Weblog
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Holy shit, it isn't telling you to kill the Haitians. It is telling your character, Tommy Vercetti, to kill all the Haitians. If you are unable to make that distinction you are either way too young to be playing it or you have probably already killed someone before touching this game and should be locked up.
Call of Duty unfairly targets Germans.
Hell, the whole game is about killing Germans. At least in Vice City they mix it up. But CoD takes hate to a new level.
And it goes far beyond video games.
In Independence Day they targeted aliens. They tried to kill all of them on or near Earth. Thats genocide my friends.
I can think of one music artist who changed his lyrics and videos in response to claims like these of "hate"... ...and that's Michael Jackson.
So we need to ask ourselves, do we want to repeat these mistakes!?!
And I thought I was the only one who's television told him to do things like that.
Then wouldn't that make Islam illegal? After all, some portions of the Koran say that those that follow Allah to kill all Jews?
You see, one should not be punished for what they THINK, they should be punished for what they do.
Lasty, don't forget. Laws like these could be turned around to come after you.
Look up the definition of the word "metaphor". Going after Rockstar for having racist slurs in a game is like going after Stephen King for murder.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Goddamnit! I just lost two "Respect for Humanity" points. And I'll tell you, nowadays, those suckers are hard to come by.
Have these people totally lost thier minds? Have they really become so wrapped up in fighting the Politically Correctness war that they don't understand how amazingly lame this is?
Of course, this is a perfect example of why hate crime laws are bad, bad news. Equal protection? Who needs that! Only minorities with well funded PACs deserve justice in this country. I mean, they've been mistreated for so long we've got to give them something, right? The 14th Amendment sounds good to me...we weren't really using it anyway.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned releasing a patch yet. That's all they're doing, right? They're patching all new versions to change the dialog. So release the new dialog in an incremental patch. And if there are complaints about having to download it, put the patch on cd's and ship them out to game retailers to package with the games currently on the shelf, and to give out to those customers who want the patch, all free of charge. The cost sucks, I'm sure, but it would likely avoid any more whoopty-hoo.
Personally I agree with all of the other posters about the sanity of the people pursuing this stupid issue, but at least this might satisfy someone.
"The presence of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the shelves of national distributors and retailers ... continues to constitute a clear and present danger for Haitian nationals in the United States. Residents of Little Haiti (in Miami) have become like a sitting duck," Jean-Robert Lafortune of the Haitian-American Grassroots Coalition told Reuters on Thursday."
So, apparently, all we need to do is just wait a bit, and the massive tidal wave of death, carnage, and destruction will wipe out every last Haitian on the planet, due to the blood-crazed killing madness that is evidently sweeping the nation at this very moment.
So, once all Miami is in flames, no more Haitians... no more fuss. We won't even have to get the courts involved. From what this guy is saying, in fact, it's useless to get them involved anyway... all we can do is declare martial law to try to stem the tide of hate crime devastation.
Unless, of course, Jean-Robert Lafortune is overstating things... just a wee bit.
I mean, I'm all for cultural sensitivity and all, but this guy makes it sound like Haitians are being lynched in the street. What are GTA players going to do? Beat them to death with their PS2 controllers?
I am so sick and tired of the crap hate gets. Personally I don't think it's too much of a crime to hate. The government has no business telling me who I can hate or not. Hate is a natural part of human existance. Maybe unpleasant for some but no less unpleasant then driving through Los Angeles and seeing bumper stickers that say "Fuck You, this is Mexico now!" Fact is this is America and it's our right to hate for any reason we choose. If I shoot someone then why not come after me for the crime of shooting them. Whether or not I like them is nobody's business but my own.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
I can imagine the groans I would get if I openly said that "they should require an ID to purchase M rated games," but they should. The majority of the controversy that you hear about this game involves some minors shooting something in real life and saying they are doing it because they saw it in the game. It's too easy of a defense, and it leaves the developers open to attacks from people and parents who never should have been playing/let their kids play the game in the first place. The majority of the problems caused by this type of game envolves kids who are under the age M rated games are rated for. Just like alchohol isn't necesarily NOT for everyone under 21, not all M rated games are NOT for everyone under 18, but there's enough problems involved now, we need to have the sales of these games restricted, and that restriction enforced. If you read no other line of this post, read this one. Enforcing a purchase age or parental consent of M rated games would give the developers something arm themselves with going into this type of litigation. They would be able to argue that someone else approved the purchase of the game for that individual, and that it was not intended for that person to play that game. While they can argue that now, they have no legal backing for it, other than the ESRB's flakey rating system. They would have the backing of the government in most cases because of this. You don't see busch beer getting sued everytime a minor gets drunk, do you?
While this wouldn't instantly fix the problem, it would protect the developers from expensive litigation in an industry that is growing more and more expensive to just stay in it. And something needs to be done to end these rediculous lawsuits and blame placed upon developers. While I believe rockstar should be held accountable for what they release, much of this has gone on far too long, and the blame is not even close to soley theirs.
The whole thing is funny. I live in Miami and I can 100% assure you that GRAND THEFT AUTO is far less likely to incite violence against Haitians than public access TV. You know, where Haitians make fools of themselves calling everybody and their mother racist at City Council meetings.
True Story.
Haitian Councilman: "We're going to allocate X amount of money to celebrate "
Gringo Councilman: "Where are we going to get the money for that?"
Haitian Councilman #2: "Oh, we can cancel the New Year's festivities!"
Gringo Councilman: "But... everybody loves the New Year's parade. This is outrageous..."
Haitian Councilmen (in unison): "RACIST!"
True fucking story.
Kill all the Haitians? Sounds like a fucking plan.
you know cause that could be hatefull too.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
So the Hatians don't like Vice City?
I'll bet 5 minutes with a plunger handle will change their minds.
Now that Rockstar has caved and announced that the dialog will be removed, what will it be replaced with? I mean, you can't just dump the player into a situation with no objective, that was the purpose of the phrase in question in the first place. In today's America, there is no proper solution. SOMEONE would find SOMETHING wrong with some little bit of something totally trivial, as they have here. Add in a bit of whining and complaining to some sympathetic politician, and nothing is safe.
I would pay more retail if it meant it went into some kind of defense slush fund just for these kinds of suits at this level/quality game.
If they asked for donations for a defense fund for this game I would put up some money, as very rare an occasion as that would be for me.
If we don't pay to support the games we like, and want to see more of, the litigation and new laws will bog them down and keep developers away. A few victorys with a 10$/game defense fund for the next Manhunt could go a long way twords keeping games free from political influence.
What they, and most other groups of this type, is for Rockstar to 'donate' to them to show how sorry they are for what the did.
It is all about money.
The game has been out for a year, why did it take the Haitian so long to start complaining? Maybe because they had to wait for it to hit the discount bin at Wal-Mart, so their welfare checks could cover it?
Now Florida is in on it too? Well I guess that means the Cubans are pissed too.
Come on people get a grip...IT'S A GAME!
Aren't technically Rockstars property. They now belong to the retailer, so unless Rockstar caves even more and takes them all back tough titty.
I'll be pissed if their next patch for the pc version alters the game. I realize I can always uninstall and play it fresh, they can't change the cd, but I bought the game last spring and understand it how its meant to be understood.
No sig for you!!
Check out "Fuck Martinez" [Download it legally, y'all] to hear that classic rap group's take on Florida attacking 1st Ammendment rights...
In a culture that produces people who creat works of art, culture and entertainment that push the boundaries on what is the accepted norm one must pay the price by producing people who disagree with the former and act to stem this flow of new information.
And then theres the money grubbing leeches. I'd put the Haitians and lawyers in the last basket.
"...saying "the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now." "
What the fuck are they supposed to do? Knock on everyone's door and stand over their shoulder and just make a beeping noise when the character says that?
The stupidity of sensitivity amazes me...
--Moo.
Maybe these Haitian community 'leaders' should stop making a big deal over one out of context phrase in a silly video game, and start concerning themselves with, oh, I dunno, Haiti. It's one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere, it lacks food and drinking water, and their government is riddled with corruption. And never mind the 300,000+ children that are virtually sold into slavery in Haiti, known as 'Restavecs'. I find it ironic that they refer to slavery here, which was abolished over a century ago, but they continue to practice it themselves. But I guess its ok for them to do it, since they do it to themselves. No, those kids aren't important at all, compared to one line in a video game. This is not to say that Haitians are bad people. But Haiti, and Haitians living here have some problems, and these 'community leaders' need to get their priorities straight.
They knew that there wasn't much that could be done at this point due to VC being old news, they don't any solutions or tell us what they really want, and they probably never intended to work things out with rockstar in the first place.
Besides, I bet they would still be crying about it even if rockstar did what they requested. They probably will try to milk this for as much as they possibly can. From what I can tell they haven't speciffly said what they want done, nor do I expect they will.
Now in addition to the frivolous law suits against blaming rockstar for the actions of morons, we have more people trying to cash in. Looks like this will be more fuel for those anit-video game nuts, just look at this quote from a Florida attorney general
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
Sounds similar to Bloomberg's "we are going to get these bastards any way we can" type quote.
Looks like more people are taking this FUD as a fact, or are just looking for some way to punish those no good evil games and their companies that are corrupting our society. Looks like the papers love it, at the top of both articles they link to the quote out of context and make it seem as if the game is instructing people to kill real Haitians. Then at the bottom section where no one really reads, or have already formed the belief that the above quote is true, it mentions how the quote may have been taken out of context.
Sheesh, if it was a movie, tv show, book, music they would have probably would have checked the context, but since it is a video game they take the claim and sound bites as a fact. Then again, the media has been lacking in the research and validity department for quite some time.
So the Haitians are offended by a line in the game about killing Haitians? You know what? I'm offended that the god damned Haitians try to kill me in the game!
that killing all the Haitians actually solves this problem. I guess there is something to be learned from Grand Theft Auto.
I for one blame not myself, nor Rockstar, nor ass-hats who shoot at people driving on the highways. I blame the Haitians, because if they weren't fuckwits and cowards they'd be living in and running their own fucking third-world country. Just because they're humourless pussies is no reason we should follow suit, especially since they're just lucky to be here.
Maybe, but I think it is more about egos. Some people don't like other people that don't agree with them. If they inflict harm on Rockstar, then they feel good about themselves, and their little special interest group now has power (if the world bends once it will bend again sort of thing). Money may play into it eventually, but the real struggle here is power. Look at prohibition in the U.S. Most of the protesters and common citizens campaigning and crusading against liquor did not stand to gain any monetary compensation for their efforts. The only reward was the forcing of their beliefs on other people. Sure some people made loads of dough on the situation when it came to fruition, but not Joe activist.
Do not be so quick to assume that money is the only thing people are after, you have to remember what the money represents.
And thanks for not being at all hostile.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
It really should.
Seriously, we need more pansey ass-clowns who take themselves too seriously?
All we must do is follow.
Honestly, these people need to just find a dark place of their anatomy and adress any future concerns to that dark place. The "offensive" statement was only used in the context of the game, and I'm sure they'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who committed a hate crime because of the game. I'm constantly amazed at how blind and stupid some of these people are, that they can make complaints like this with a straight face. They complain a lot about people taking the game's statement literally due to an inability to separate the game world from the real world, yet they themselves seem to be the only people with that problem.
Incredible.
They should have hooked up with the free speech foundation which is essentially a trade association for the porn industry.
1) Rockstrs and Pornstars. They just go together.
2) Porn is BIG business. That's right GE, a company that produced componants for satellites, cruise missles, and nuclear weapons sells porn. That's the kind of team I want to be on.
3) Get to wrap yourself in the american flag, and blast those little (virtual) haitian mothers! While trying to rescue Jenna Jamison thanks to a cross licencing agreement.
4) Programmers, and gamers, not the most suave of cats by reputation. Contacts in the porn industry couldn't hurt.
5) Ron Howard directs Grand Theft AutoErot-o! A whole franchise including R rated theatrical release, Affiliated DVD with vinettes by the anime porn masters, Special Editions, Hardcore editions, interactive titles for both the console markets and DVD's, and promotional stunts like tickets to the premier or trips with the starletts that end up at the bunnyranch, replicas of the starts from realdolls.com.
I, for one, welcome seeing what 150 million dollars of porn looks like.
Still Legal.
FWIW, I always play civ to genocide. I don't always raze their cities, but they follow my laws and fly my colors.
And what about DooM II, don't the minnions of Hell deserve the same rights as everyone else even if they're bent on the destruction of our way of life?
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
In other news EA Games today announced that to prevent future lawsuits they will not ask players to "kill Germans" in the upcomming sequel to their Medal of Honour WWII first person shooter. The sequel has now been renamed to Medal of Honour, Let's all live together in peace.
siener's youtube channel
Well, since it seems that it is the State of Florida, then just don't sell the games there. After all its only one state. lol
Okay, please change every movie ever made that has had a racist in it or you get investigated for hate crimes. HOW insanly poltically correct has the country gotten, when you can't even have a racist charectar in a medium? there goes out a ton of story-telling, even having a racist charectar in a movie is grounds for it to be fined BECAUSE OF HATE CRIME.
THrow out all your copies of missipi burning people
Thanks
- Hatiain groups
After playing Super Mario Bros. I spent a significant portion of my childhood running around the house looking for gold coins. These games are teaching our kids to chase money! Don't even get me started on the aftermath of my bananna cannon rampage.
No offense to Haitians or anyone else, but WTF took them so long to get pissed off and organized about this game? "Blah blah blah... its to late, they already made their money." Yea, why weren't you protesting a year ago when it would have been easier to resolve the situation? Anyone think Florida would be thinking about hate crime laws if this whole brewhaha happened a month after the game was released?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
*nt*
In NYC the Haitian groups are protesting and getting media coverage on this same issue. The makers removed the line(s) from the game in new copies, but the Haitian groups are not satisfied and want the option to return the uneditted game for the editted one.
Causing Chaos Everywhere,
Nik J.
The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
I mean, come on, there's a lot of REAL killing going on in the U.S.
Why don't we worry about solving that problem first, and then we can get around to protesting and investigating the FAKE killings in books, video games, movies, and other entertainment media?
...is yet another *AA telling us what criminals we are.
... it seems likely that there is reason to believe that the person who committed the hate crime will do so again, since there are more people for whom he/she is motivated to kill.
I think that Florida doesn't like being portrayed in the game as a coke infested craphole that it is and not the Disneyfied infomercial that it wants us all to believe.
I think what all this comes down to is a loss of common sense in America. As Americans, most have the mentality of 'it has to be someone else's fault'. A lady spills hot coffee on her lap while driving and talking on a cell phone and sues because the coffee is too hot. Where was the common sense in 1. the coffee would be hot, 2. I am driving and talking on a cell phone, lets put the hot (styrofoam) cup between my legs? There was none, I can pitcure her to her lawyer (or her lawyer saying her to say this) "it must be McD's fault that I had it between my legs, was driving and on a cell phone. Plus, I don't expect hot coffee from them."
Getting back to the topic...you have the Hatians and State of Confusion.....err...Florida complaining about this. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME. If you don't have the common sense to know that, then don't play it. Personally, I never even really noticed that line until they made a big deal out of it. I never related that line to a whole group of people - no one with common sense would. However, in our common senseless society (in conjunction with the politically correct attitude), people don't think anymore, they do what they are told/fed to do and feel. I think this point is proven with the fact they waited so long. As said on previous posts, if they are really offended, then why wait so long to complian? Well, perhaps it's because they are being told what to think/say/feel by the vultures.
Yes - I am having a bad day and needed to rant because I am starting to get sick of all this...time for judicial (and society) reformation
People need to start thinking for themselves and use common sense - their brains and society will thank them!
But there problem is that it's racist against their group. I am wonder what would happen if there was a game that was racist against all groups, (you pick one character and you have kill everyone that is black, a different character and you kill all the whites, etc.) What will then happen?
Or what about those games that depict World War II? Should the Germans or the Russians be pissed? It's hard to draw the line.
Causing Chaos Everywhere,
Nik J.
The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
If I was Rockstar, I'd have a press conference and in classic Johnny Cash style flip them the bird.
This is all a joke. It will fade away and be long forgotten. It's clearly protected under free speech (and last time I checked, even "race hating" speech is free.) Besides, it's a video game, with fictious characters/situations/stories.
Blah.
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Then there's the case of a Washington staffer forced to resign for saying "niggardly", because it sounded like a racial slur, but actually meant "miserly".
Using "kill the Hatians" in the game was probably over the top, but I can't help but look at this and think that if the phrase used was "kill the whites", we'd not have even noticed.
Before you mod me off for trying to troll, I'll just ask you what is more offensive: not paying attention to a "racial slur" because you think people are above the touchiness, or constantly spending your life looking at a certain race as your oppressors without first looking for motivations, or even correct word definitions?
There's so little difference between politics and jihad lately...
Normally, I'm a big fan of rational discourse and measured debate... but... NAZI SKINHEADS FUCKING DIE!!!!
Here's what I would say if I were a Rockstar executive:
TO ALL THE HAITIAN HYPOCRITES OUT THERE, if our apology isn't good enough for you, then I say that we gave you an apology that we DID NOT MEAN! And if you don't understand what I'm saying, I always have a little bit of sign language, so here's to ya.... (flips bird with both hands). ALL YOU HAITIANS ARE NOTHING BUT GARBAGE!!!! GARBAGE FOR FLEAS!!!!
Okay, maybe that was going a little too far, but the those ass-clowns would deserve it.
Clearly, if a soldier says "kill all the Germans" in a WWII game, he doesn't mean kill millions of German innocents. He means the armed Germans nearby.
I suppose we can just stick to inventing Eastern Bloc countries for statments like this... "Kill all the Logobrovians." It's anti-slavic, but it's nicely generic, and well-established. I had a book of jokes where all the Polack jokes have been replaced with Smogarian equivalents... I was only eight, so I really wondered what the hell could be wrong with these Smogarian fellows. Interestingly, I assumed they were black, because of the Smog.
I don't see how this decision doesn't break freedom of speech. However, wouldn't Ethnic Cleansing put out be a LITTLE more about hate crime stuff? I mean, it's object is to kill "sub-humans" -- i.e. Blacks and Latinos -- and their "masters," the Jews, who are portrayed as the personification of evil. The ads said, "Celebrate Martin Luther King Day with a virtual Race War!"a sp
http://www.adl.org/videogames/videogames_print.
Defend your constitution!Screw state laws!
If a movie (re:art) says i hate hatians, mexicans, canadiens, white people, black people, whoever...you don't sue the movie for a hate crime. WHY? FREEDOME OF SPEECH>
Now, because Rockstar did something nice for them, they are getting shafted. They would have been better off telling them to go fly a kite (or at least lighten up).
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Actually, it's not so much off-topic as much as it's a knee jerk response to an article you obviously didn't read because a bad image isn't the basis for the lawsuit, violation of a hate crime statute is. Can we get an option for "Don't pay attention to this guy because he's so bloody oblivious to the topic at hand, any argument he might make would be utter bullshit"
So basically, yeah, you're right, it's not off-topic, it's the rantings of an uninformed jackass.
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7680 MB Disk,192 GB Transfer,
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
WHAT AN IDIOT! "Some law"? I'm ashamed to be a floridian.
"Kill the Haitians" is specific. You are now planning to target "Haitians" specifically, because of a complaint against a publisher by someone in Florida. GTA is a fun way to release agressions and repressed hatred against many kinds of fictional people, in your home where it doesn't insult anyone. Now you're letting it influence your behavior towards other real people, who you haven't even met. Get your head together, lest you become a parody of the kind of person the censors usually just have to invent.
--
make install -not war