Oh Dude! You're missing out. Why would you want to recompile your kernel? Because you can. If nothing else you can watch all those cool compiler messages fly by enhancing your innner sense of 1337ness:)
Hmmm... The way the words are used in computer graphics seems to be:
Transparency. This is what X presently does and I have with gnome-terminal. I can see my desktop wallpaper underneath my terminal. I put a terminal on top in the middle of my web browser, I can see my dekstop image.
Translucency: OSX has this, and now X.org. You can see another application beneath the one on top, not just your destop.
I'll buy one as soon as it's available over here. Why. Becuase is linux is already installed on the beast by the vendor, all the hardware will just work(tm). I can buy it and get on with being productive with it, rather than spending a lot of time getting it all configured, installing kernel modules etc only to discover that some vendor has claimed to ship a particular piece of hardware, but has in fact shipped something else which they have renamed. Eg Dell shipped me a SoundBlaster Live! in a desktop that had been butchered so it wouldn't work with Linux. Waste of money, or if I send it back a waste of time & hastle, (which is also money.) If it works out of the box, there's a good chance that upgrades will work. I'd be happy with a Laptop with no OS installed that the vendor assures contains linux supported hardware. Having an OS installed is just a really great statement to re-inforce the fact that "this is Linux compatible and no we aren't kidding." Loving HP's work on this. Anyone got a link to the online store? Seriously.
I'm sorry I thought it was obvious, I forget not all of us actually write code.
Someone alleges infringing code in open-source project XXX. Maybe they release 10 new features, all of which are in copyright software.
Developers of the copyright code, download & inspect code of project XXX, maybe using a few shell scripts.
Infringing code is found or not pretty quickly.
What do Alta Vista do about the alleged infringement by Microsoft?
If my code is device drivers I probably wouldn't bother with downloading and inspecting all the PHP, perl, & python photograph albums on sourceforge.
The point remains if anyone suggests that an open source project contains code that infringes my copyright, I can check it pretty quickly. If you write software, it really is obvious, I promise. Moreover it's also very cheap. If it's proprietary, closed source software that might be infringing my copyright, my position is contrasing . What can I do? Start hiring lawyers on what might be baseless speculation, and still I probably need bug for bug compatibility to get anywhere.
Ah, but did you know that? I notice 3 of your recent comments modded as troll, 2 as flamebait and you like to say fuck out loud. Nice to see that Closed-Source advocates can be every bit as obnoxious as the most fervent devotees of Mr Stallman.;)
I've heard much whining from lawyers (often repeated by journalists) about the process of open source projects accepting code without doing exhaustive searches to ensure that said code does not belong to someone else.
This despite the fact that opensource codee can be seen by all, including those who own the copyrights, and project leaders can be notified, "These lines of code in these files are ours. Remove them please."
Alta Vista may have had their code stolen by a Microsoft Project.
How can Alta Vista possibly know?
If it were an open source project, it would be obvious, Alta Vista developers could verify by inspection. Are microsoft going to allow Alta Vista, their commercial competition, to see their code?
Open Source code is the least likely to have infringed copyright, becuase the copyright owner can see it, at any time, under zero uncumberance to their daily work. If proprietary software contains copyright infringing code, it takes rather obstruce mechanisms. Eg Andrew Tridgell noticing a proprietary company's accidental release note "Fixes bug xxxx in samba" or now this story.
Free Software code is less likely to be stolen than any other code you didn't write yourself. Why don't journalists get that when it is obvious?
Yeah and car users should be informed enough to be able to fit their own seatbelts.
Anyone using an electrical appliance should be able to install the necessary insulation themselves.
If they die, then that is their own fault.
The only thing that protects software companies from having to look after their users properly, ie by not shipping them stuff that is an insecure disaster is that you can't trace death & injury directly to consurmer software.
Ah, but Indirectly..? Discuss.
Yeah, I'm pulling $500 out of my, ahem, hat. This was indicated by the "what" directly before the $500 and was an attempt to indicate a rough guess.
Though USD$200 has a way of becoming AUD$500:)
However the number is just a number. I would guess many linux users would say that Windows is too expensive and prefer not to purchase it at anything more that $0.50
Pick any numbers you like, the point stands. To say that customers don't care about not having the choice to not purchase an operating system they clearly don't prefer, is wrong. Of course they care. They may simply be resigned to it, but I doubt you'll find too many who 'want' to purchase a copy of windows they won't use.
Almost none of them care, because they understand the situation.
I very much doubt it. Almost all of them are resigned to the fact that nothing much can be done about it right now. Maybe. Don't care? Hmmm... I've not met too many people who 'don't care' about having to buy something expensive that they will never use. More specifically people who use linux, often don't like windows or Microsoft, so donating what $500 to this company for no good reason..?
Don't kid yourself. If you doubt it, offer 2 or 3 random customers a $500 discount for the laptop without the windows licence. See how many don't care either way.
Copy & paste is controlled by your terminal.
So it works the way it works for the xterm/gnome-terminal/e-term or console in which you are running your shell.
Change from bash to zsh? Copy and paste will work the same way.
Highlight text & middle click at your shell prompt seems to work just about everywhere and work between xterms.
Erm, Works good here. just selected your comment in win Mozilla. Middle clicked in an xterm logged into a remote machine running vi. started X with/usr/X11R6/bin/startxwin.sh (rootless xterm) in a cygwin terminal. Update your cygwin? Or select & copy in win (Ctrl+c) left click the top left corner of a regular cytwin terminal. Select Edit-Paste from the drop down menu. Cygwin, don't leave $HOME without it! Best of luck.
I think you can be certain that business people ignore Mguel Icaza and Nat Friedman.
I think not.
Nat & Miguel can probably point to several million items of proof, courtesey of the business people who run Novell, listening...
Something else to consider just may be that websites are not always 100% up to date. Novell just had a huge coroporate pow-wow. Things change.
Yes, that's exactly right. And as I was just looking at the Windows 95 source to fix a few of those annoying bugs I was thingking, "Good thing Microsoft used the BSD TCP/IP stack, otherwise they'd have gone broke trying to sell an OS that 'didn't do the internet' and their code wouldn't be open source."
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive. It's an important point about licensing we should all understand.
Yes, you can check out the BSD TCP/IP stack source. No you cannot see how Micorsoft ported it to work with Windows 95. So no, the code in Win 95 is not open. Should the problems that piece of code porting presented come up again somewhere else, someone will sweat re-inventing similar solutions. Effort duplication.
So I guess I'm saying that the GPL & LGPL are good enough for me.
I use [open source] software because it is better. Apache is better than IIS. Perl is fantastic. CPAN modules rock. PHP kicks booty. Mozilla is better than IE. Gnumeric is Better than Excel. Vim is better than any proprietary text editor. GCC is better than VC++ or C++ Builder. OOo writer is better than word. Bash is better than the dos prompt. I can go on for quite a while in this vain...
And yes, I am a 'single user', what other kind of user posts on slashdot? -- Thank you, you're too kind. I'm here every thursday...
Cheers Bruce, Thanks for taking the time to get involved in the disucussion. Debian rocks. As a complete goose(tm) who doesn't know what he's doing, the people at debian look after my software AND licencing concerns while I'm still playing the massive game of catch up with the learning. Because of this, I can write some code for an OSS project that might well be sitting on your machine. It's pretty unusual that I hear about these things before they happen. It's even rarer that the outcome looks anything other than positive. Apathy is not a good way to go, granted, it's just there are only so many hours in the day and I've yet to see a reason to not 'just trust Debian' (We'll obviously need to keep an eye on it, but it looks like that is being done nicely.) What more could I possibly want? Ten years old. Debian doesn't just rock, it shakes the foundations. A warm thanks to all concerned.
Have your engineers been good enough to fix these ones yet? Or should I continue to advise anyone who is doing any important statisical analyses (eg medical research, construction engineering or even any non-trivial finance) to on no account process their numbers with your number processing program I call you for 9 years on crucial bugs in your most popular and best piece of software. Gnumeric OpenOffice.org KSpread
Cheers Benoni, That level of bandwidth use is fine with me & well worth it, I'll just switch it on for all users of that machine & forget about it. I guess I was only concerned if it was constantly sending back information - which I thought might hurt the hip-pocket after a few good 6-7 hour sessions of usage. Turns out there is no cause for concern - which is all good. I'll be interested to see what results it all brings. All the best.
I have been taking part in this for a while, (gnumeric) however frequently have it switched off, simply out of bandwidth concerns (I pay through the nose if over a rediculously low limit.) Mia Culpa I've not read all the documentation at your site (only so many hours in a day, etc.) Does this only send back reports when gnumeric crashes or is it sending back reports on a constant basis? How much bandwidth does it use? Can I just leave it on knowing it is trivial usage?
Semantics, maybe? They don't get paid by the 'project' they may get paid by some 3rd party. Eg Alan Cox getting paid by Redhat for coding the kernel, but not getting paid by the 'linux kernel project owners'. This is what I meant by 'directly paid' Your point is of course entirely valid and better yet, I think we understand each other.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh Dude! :)
You're missing out. Why would you want to recompile your kernel? Because you can.
If nothing else you can watch all those cool compiler messages fly by enhancing your innner sense of 1337ness
Hmmm...
The way the words are used in computer graphics seems to be:
Transparency. This is what X presently does and I have with gnome-terminal. I can see my desktop wallpaper underneath my terminal. I put a terminal on top in the middle of my web browser, I can see my dekstop image.
Translucency: OSX has this, and now X.org. You can see another application beneath the one on top, not just your destop.
Is it English? Well, computerese rarely is...
I'll buy one as soon as it's available over here.
Why.
Becuase is linux is already installed on the beast by the vendor, all the hardware will just work(tm).
I can buy it and get on with being productive with it, rather than spending a lot of time getting it all configured, installing kernel modules etc only to discover that some vendor has claimed to ship a particular piece of hardware, but has in fact shipped something else which they have renamed. Eg Dell shipped me a SoundBlaster Live! in a desktop that had been butchered so it wouldn't work with Linux. Waste of money, or if I send it back a waste of time & hastle, (which is also money.)
If it works out of the box, there's a good chance that upgrades will work.
I'd be happy with a Laptop with no OS installed that the vendor assures contains linux supported hardware. Having an OS installed is just a really great statement to re-inforce the fact that "this is Linux compatible and no we aren't kidding."
Loving HP's work on this.
Anyone got a link to the online store? Seriously.
- Someone alleges infringing code in open-source project XXX. Maybe they release 10 new features, all of which are in copyright software.
- Developers of the copyright code, download & inspect code of project XXX, maybe using a few shell scripts.
- Infringing code is found or not pretty quickly.
What do Alta Vista do about the alleged infringement by Microsoft?If my code is device drivers I probably wouldn't bother with downloading and inspecting all the PHP, perl, & python photograph albums on sourceforge.
The point remains if anyone suggests that an open source project contains code that infringes my copyright, I can check it pretty quickly. If you write software, it really is obvious, I promise. Moreover it's also very cheap.
If it's proprietary, closed source software that might be infringing my copyright, my position is contrasing . What can I do? Start hiring lawyers on what might be baseless speculation, and still I probably need bug for bug compatibility to get anywhere.
Ah, but did you know that? I notice 3 of your recent comments modded as troll, 2 as flamebait and you like to say fuck out loud.
Nice to see that Closed-Source advocates can be every bit as obnoxious as the most fervent devotees of Mr Stallman.
All the best.
I've heard much whining from lawyers (often repeated by journalists) about the process of open source projects accepting code without doing exhaustive searches to ensure that said code does not belong to someone else.
This despite the fact that opensource codee can be seen by all, including those who own the copyrights, and project leaders can be notified, "These lines of code in these files are ours. Remove them please."
Alta Vista may have had their code stolen by a Microsoft Project.
How can Alta Vista possibly know?
If it were an open source project, it would be obvious, Alta Vista developers could verify by inspection.
Are microsoft going to allow Alta Vista, their commercial competition, to see their code?
Open Source code is the least likely to have infringed copyright, becuase the copyright owner can see it, at any time, under zero uncumberance to their daily work.
If proprietary software contains copyright infringing code, it takes rather obstruce mechanisms. Eg Andrew Tridgell noticing a proprietary company's accidental release note "Fixes bug xxxx in samba" or now this story.
Free Software code is less likely to be stolen than any other code you didn't write yourself.
Why don't journalists get that when it is obvious?
Yeah and car users should be informed enough to be able to fit their own seatbelts.
Anyone using an electrical appliance should be able to install the necessary insulation themselves.
If they die, then that is their own fault.
The only thing that protects software companies from having to look after their users properly, ie by not shipping them stuff that is an insecure disaster is that you can't trace death & injury directly to consurmer software.
Ah, but Indirectly..? Discuss.
Yeah, I'm pulling $500 out of my, ahem, hat. This was indicated by the "what" directly before the $500 and was an attempt to indicate a rough guess.
:)
Though USD$200 has a way of becoming AUD$500
However the number is just a number. I would guess many linux users would say that Windows is too expensive and prefer not to purchase it at anything more that $0.50
Pick any numbers you like, the point stands.
To say that customers don't care about not having the choice to not purchase an operating system they clearly don't prefer, is wrong. Of course they care. They may simply be resigned to it, but I doubt you'll find too many who 'want' to purchase a copy of windows they won't use.
Almost none of them care, because they understand the situation.
I very much doubt it. Almost all of them are resigned to the fact that nothing much can be done about it right now.
Maybe.
Don't care? Hmmm... I've not met too many people who 'don't care' about having to buy something expensive that they will never use.
More specifically people who use linux, often don't like windows or Microsoft, so donating what $500 to this company for no good reason..?
Don't kid yourself.
If you doubt it, offer 2 or 3 random customers a $500 discount for the laptop without the windows licence. See how many don't care either way.
Copy & paste is controlled by your terminal. So it works the way it works for the xterm/gnome-terminal/e-term or console in which you are running your shell. Change from bash to zsh? Copy and paste will work the same way. Highlight text & middle click at your shell prompt seems to work just about everywhere and work between xterms.
Why?
Zawinski's Law
Erm, /usr/X11R6/bin/startxwin.sh (rootless xterm) in a cygwin terminal.
Works good here.
just selected your comment in win Mozilla.
Middle clicked in an xterm logged into a remote machine running vi.
started X with
Update your cygwin?
Or select & copy in win (Ctrl+c)
left click the top left corner of a regular cytwin terminal. Select Edit-Paste from the drop down menu.
Cygwin, don't leave $HOME without it!
Best of luck.
(recent install of Cygwin running on XP)
I think you can be certain that business people ignore Mguel Icaza and Nat Friedman.
I think not.
Nat & Miguel can probably point to several million items of proof, courtesey of the business people who run Novell, listening...
Something else to consider just may be that websites are not always 100% up to date. Novell just had a huge coroporate pow-wow.
Things change.
All the best!
Sorry, I was under the impression that evry tin-pot dictator had the understanding to destroy the world.
1.Build a nuclear bomb.
2.wrap in Cobalt
3 farewell your children
4.history is erased.
Every civiliasation that has tried to supress technology has fallen. Civilisation is now global.
That is well fucked up.
Yes, that's exactly right.
And as I was just looking at the Windows 95 source to fix a few of those annoying bugs I was thingking, "Good thing Microsoft used the BSD TCP/IP stack, otherwise they'd have gone broke trying to sell an OS that 'didn't do the internet' and their code wouldn't be open source."
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive. It's an important point about licensing we should all understand.
Yes, you can check out the BSD TCP/IP stack source.
No you cannot see how Micorsoft ported it to work with Windows 95. So no, the code in Win 95 is not open. Should the problems that piece of code porting presented come up again somewhere else, someone will sweat re-inventing similar solutions. Effort duplication.
So I guess I'm saying that the GPL & LGPL are good enough for me.
This must be how all those people get jobs ahead of me asking for 7 years .Net experience.
I've been using Longhorn since '03 myself...
... anything free is worth precisely what you paid for it.
Like say, for example, breatheable air? Cost does not always equal value.
Anyone know how this compares to pgAcess?
If anyone is reviewing might make a good basis for comparison.
Yep, But only with (proprietary) QT libraries. So you pay. GPL on *nix.
I use [open source] software because it is better. Apache is better than IIS. Perl is fantastic. CPAN modules rock. PHP kicks booty. Mozilla is better than IE. Gnumeric is Better than Excel. Vim is better than any proprietary text editor. GCC is better than VC++ or C++ Builder. OOo writer is better than word. Bash is better than the dos prompt. I can go on for quite a while in this vain...
And yes, I am a 'single user', what other kind of user posts on slashdot? -- Thank you, you're too kind. I'm here every thursday...
Cheers Bruce,
Thanks for taking the time to get involved in the disucussion.
Debian rocks. As a complete goose(tm) who doesn't know what he's doing, the people at debian look after my software AND licencing concerns while I'm still playing the massive game of catch up with the learning. Because of this, I can write some code for an OSS project that might well be sitting on your machine.
It's pretty unusual that I hear about these things before they happen. It's even rarer that the outcome looks anything other than positive. Apathy is not a good way to go, granted, it's just there are only so many hours in the day and I've yet to see a reason to not 'just trust Debian' (We'll obviously need to keep an eye on it, but it looks like that is being done nicely.)
What more could I possibly want?
Ten years old. Debian doesn't just rock, it shakes the foundations.
A warm thanks to all concerned.
Have your engineers been good enough to fix these ones yet?
Or should I continue to advise anyone who is doing any important statisical analyses (eg medical research, construction engineering or even any non-trivial finance) to on no account process their numbers with your number processing program
I call you for 9 years on crucial bugs in your most popular and best piece of software.
Gnumeric
OpenOffice.org
KSpread
Cheers Benoni,
That level of bandwidth use is fine with me & well worth it, I'll just switch it on for all users of that machine & forget about it. I guess I was only concerned if it was constantly sending back information - which I thought might hurt the hip-pocket after a few good 6-7 hour sessions of usage. Turns out there is no cause for concern - which is all good.
I'll be interested to see what results it all brings.
All the best.
Benoni,
I have been taking part in this for a while, (gnumeric) however frequently have it switched off, simply out of bandwidth concerns (I pay through the nose if over a rediculously low limit.) Mia Culpa I've not read all the documentation at your site (only so many hours in a day, etc.) Does this only send back reports when gnumeric crashes or is it sending back reports on a constant basis? How much bandwidth does it use? Can I just leave it on knowing it is trivial usage?
Cheers,
H.
Semantics, maybe?
They don't get paid by the 'project' they may get paid by some 3rd party. Eg Alan Cox getting paid by Redhat for coding the kernel, but not getting paid by the 'linux kernel project owners'. This is what I meant by 'directly paid'
Your point is of course entirely valid and better yet, I think we understand each other.