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More Light Shed on Project David
Sun writes "Flexbeta.net received from Specops Labs screenshots "proving" that project David (previously covered here) is a real thing. The demo.... Office 2000 install. This is something both Wine and CrossOver Office know how to do for quite some time.
In a discussion on wine-devel some people noticed evidence inside the screenshots that project David is a CrossOver Office ripoff."
Could this project be based on the leaked MS code, or is it really a CrossOver Office ripoff? I can't tell, but Mike McCormack could.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
I don't believe it. They used GIFs for the screenshots. Somebody needs to knock some sense into these people. This does not reflect well on their computer literacy.
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Show me the latest versions of popular Windows apps (office, outlook, powerpoint) being installed and running - and I'll be more impressed.. And give a real copy to a review site to test - just not that girl over at osnews.com! ;)
At present, why would anyone use this instead of Crossover Office? Well... whenever they release it, that is.
Man watching 6 MSCE's around a sun box, looks alot like the opening scene's of 2001:space odyssey...
... if it's open source it'll be easy to spot a rip-off, if it's CrossOver-style proprietary then what's the point - just use CrossOver anyway!
that in the picture http://www.flexbeta.net/images/david/winbridge_ins tall.gif the second
line in winbridge.lst is /etc/wine... There are more clues that this
project David is just a (possibly repackaged) Wine. the second line in winbridge.lst is /etc/wine...
Thing is, shots such as these can be faked in a number of ways.. there was nobody there actually watching this and no real-time video. I am not very impressed. Even if it is real it will not be open source so nobody will use it anyway. :)
There should be a mod called Goatse troll, not just troll...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
the specops website is a pretty blatant pitch for venture capital, and not intended to give information to end users. Has an definate air of dodginess...
Many people have bitched about the controls on windows applications not using the KDE/Gnome themes. If I was to create this type of middleware application, I would have looked into a way to make this windows apps draw the controls with the linux gui theme. Installing an application that works on wine, does not prove anything.
Screenshots are great and all, but I'm still a bit sceptical. As soon as they say "Buy David now for $49.95. With our %100 compatibility, kick us if it doesn't work guarantee" I'll take it seriously.
I think this internet thing sounds like a good idea
The screenshots indicate it is just another MS look and feel "insipired" open-source project..
*sigh
http://efil.blogspot.com/
It may be a ripoff, but where can I download it? I'd like to see the source code. If I can install Pagemaker 7 in linux, I will be very happy.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
Look at it as Offshore Outsourcing, FOSS style.
This image mentioned in the article clearly shows lines that reference /usr/bin/wine in the winbridge.lst preview icon.
Combined with the link you give, if this is not a complete ripoff then they are at least building on the wine base code in some way.
This is great! The only thing left, is for them to figure out how I'm going to PAY for office separately!
Your post indicates that you're totally clueless about the topic at hand. What open source project? "Project David" is supposed to be some super-sekrit Win32 layer for running Windows application on Linux, just like Wine but this one is supposed to be perfect in every way. Of course the fucking screenshots in the article look like a Microsoft application; it's Microsoft Office 2000. You fucking dolt.
...is that the directories seen in the homedir view changed quite remarkably. The installation directories (sources, specops) are not there, and some wine-20040408 dir shows up in Konqueror. Just as if it is a totaly different user or something.
Ah well, 'even if' this is a fake, but at least it put some attention on Wine (and derivatives) in the sense that 'they can run Microsoft Office for ages already'.
You mean legal literacy, not computer literacy.
Gif-type compression is ideal for screenshots unless you happen to have a true color jpeg image in the background. That said, it would have been LEGALLY smarter to use png compression so they don't get roped into these last minute GIF legal manuevers.
Seening how they're a bunch of nobodies with no money, though, they probably would cost more to just start a suit than their total assets are worth.
Yup, I discovered it too. It's right here.
this pic for references to an install of wine.
Finally, for those who know lots about these things, on this picture notice how the on the right and bottom of the page the scroll bar and status bar are clipped. This is a bug in crossover office but is fixed in the latest wine, so they appear to have basically made a crossover varient and not even bothered merging the latest release of the offical wine in. poor.
Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
Of course it's MS look and feel, they're MS programs.
Better to use a technology never patented: PNG.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
If it is just a repackaging of wine, the worst thing is the investments they claim to have received. They haven't done anything to actually help wine yet, and if that money is real, it could have been invested in one of the real wine contributing companies. These guys will probably just run away with the money in the end if they are this bad at faking things.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
I think people named David everywhere should join together and be insulted!
They not only rip off a decent product (crossover), but they rip off my name!
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I dont really see a problem with this being a repackaged Wine. Provided that the company comply with the licensing terms, and that any changes to the source are given back to the community. More heads working on the wine project can only be a beneficial wherever they come from.
However, if they are going to be all take take take and no giving back to the community then I do see a problem with it.
Nick...
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
As noted by other posters, this David may be a wine ripoff. I checked their web site and, interestingly, their "technology overview" and pretty much every other link that may be informative in this respect is "temporarily disabled". Something tells me that temporary may be permanent here :)
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
...is this thing running under windows.
look at the simple and obvious point here.... they go from "planning" to a beta release in less than a week. any coder can figure out it is going to take a LOT more than a week to hit on any code worth using with a project of this scope and magnitude.
You can stick your fucking blog up your gigantic asshole Bob. Quit posting your "what I di last summer" pictures you gigantic anal homo.
Why can't Specops make plugins for wine, like WineX from transgaming?
;)
Transgaming doesn't release their source code for the copyrighted pieces, but they do release modifications to wine.
I don't see a problem, other than they don't mention they use wine. Of couse maybe there is a readme.txt that has all the wine information. It's not released yet.
Though if it is Wine, its not really true virtualization like they claim. Damn, too much guessing, without seeing the code.
No different here, they wrap it with some bullshit stories and crap though. Not to beat a dead horse but this is exactly why you GPL your software.
I think that what you really want, is somebody who's an expert at correctly identifying rip-offs.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
How Y'all folks been doing,
... to act as a subversive/proxy agent to disrupt/claim/... part of the open-source territory? Is MS Gates trying to globally contain the spread of "Open Source and Democracy" with strategic special interest planning/positioning outside the USA?
..., but I am just not sure of anything like this foolish unlikely conspiracy of Microsoft's interest in Globalization for Capitalism in direct opposition to Democracy (anti-exploitation representation).
..., I think SpecOps/SoftLabs website maybe managed/developed by pITstop?
I've been visiting different places.
Could/Would Microsoft use a company outside the USA DMCA RIAA
Could be
Has any one
Yahoo!ed pITstop microsoft Philippines
Googled pITstop microsoft Philippines
OldHawk777
May God Bless and Thank Dummy Rummy and his mythical guzzling buddy George for all the atrocities they bring US. Today same as yesterday (four years ago), I would vote for Bill Gates if it would keep/get GWB and clown-crew out of Washington permanently.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
David is known to many as the Biblical character to slew Goliath, putting the Philistines into retreat and making David a favourite of the Hebrew people, who would one day be their king.
Following this, David was repeatedly attacked by the leaders of the Hebrew people for being too strong.
"For a while, David found himself in the rather bizarre situation of fighting Saul's enemies and fleeing Saul at the same time." - quoted from keyway.ca
No, I'm no sort of religious propagandist, it's just amusing how well this rings when read as an analysis of commercial software vendors targeting the OSS community.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
They may need some. If what we're seeing her is accurate, then the only thing that's stopping them from being GPL violators is the fact that they haven't distributed anything yet.
When they do that, they'll need IP lawyers (not that it'll do them much good). At the very least they'll need lawyers to sign the out of court settlement with the wine/crossover people.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
I'd sure like to see Adobe Photoshop running on Linux...
Note to self/all:
WINE cannot run the Windows Installer.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
With OSS you must include all sources the code with the hackers' names.
If this was not done it is theft of property (I think) under GPL and other OSS copyrights.
OldHawk777
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
If BG takes office, how long till the RIAA, BSA, NSA, FBI and CIA all merge, and Hatch is promoted to Secretary of Media Defense :)
Very true, for FLOSS licesnes, but not all. There was no suggestion in post I was replying to that the source was not released. If it was released, then there's no violation. If it was not released, then there was. But the original poster's complaint was that reselling open source software as a bundled product on a computer was ripping off the creators. That's only true if the software is being distributed in way that violates the FLOSS license.
Dear Mr. A. Coward,
My native language is Hebrew. How many languages can you convey a message in so that people can understand, with or without grammar mistakes?
Sincerely,
Shachar
P.s.
http://www.shemesh.biz/sun.html for what my name means, as well as some clue about how much different languages can differ.
Regards,
.... Bob
The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank.
-- Scotty.
Proof that this is not a Wine "rip-off." Remember folks, this is what the GPL is for -- legal derivative works. It would have been immoral maybe if they had hidden the fact that it was Wine derived, but it's quite obvious they are not trying to hide it.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
This is why the GPL is important.
A very old (and often employed) business plan
1. Steal existing work (Say public domain code) clame as own.
2. Market....
3. If original hasn't been devistated by the hype. Sue.
3a. They can't sue back if it's public domain. No proffit motive to defend. Chances are they'll give it up.
3b. If they don't give up use the fact that your the only one with a clame of ownership.
After all the original author gave up all rights you have every right to clame it.
(Finders keepers)
4. Proffit.
5. Let it go stagnent and die.
It's not like you put any work into it.
I don't actually exist.
In the Word screenshot, they used the phrase "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog", which is wrong. The correct phrase is "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog", and contains all the letters in the English alphabet. Their phrase misses the letter S.
Since no one else did, I sent this when the first slashdot article appeared. I got a reply recently.
To sum up the email, they will use LGPL, and release a demo code around May when the website will be re-opened.
The program is based on some already existing open source software. So yes, it probably uses wine.
So will it turn up?
This was the response:
The availability of the commercial version of Project David is before the
end of this year. We do encourage the open source movement and we will
comply with the GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. We will be posting
developments and availability of our demo code through our Website
http://www.specopslabs.com which will be reopened before the end of May.
Through our website, we will be announcing how you can secure a licensed
copy of Project David when it becomes commercially available before the end
of this year. For existing MS Windows users, it will be available via
download. For users buying a new PC, we are working with PC manufacturers,
System Whitebox Builders and OEM's on having this pre-loaded when the PC is
ordered as a Linux desktop/server
As the final pricing of the commercial version of DAVID is still being
finalized, the combined pricing of David with the Linux distribution of your
choice will be significantly lower than securing a license for the desktop
proprietary Operating Systems in the market today. We are a firm believer in
having Linux on the desktop and will price the product accordingly to make
the commercial issues more compelling.
Below are some additional information on Project David. [SNIP!]
The only things I didn't already know from the articles that have appeared are that:
"Our Linux/Win Bridge software is one of multiple
components [Including LGPL stuff like wine?], which comprise our OS platform. In the future we will release
another component, which is a set of tools that will encourage developers to
write native Linux applications."
"The David software is a joint development effort between De La Salle
University and SpecOpS Labs. Our Chief Technical Officer is Mr. Peter
Valdez. As you may know Mr. Valdez is the founder of Tivoli Systems, which
is now a multi billion-dollar flagship product of IBM."
"The code for our Windows/Linux Bridge is a hybrid of code, including our own
proprietary code, and code from several open source projects."
Joseph Farthing
http://josephfarthing.com
How about running something a little more recent, like Office XP or Office 2003...
I'd be really impressed to see it running Office for Longhorn.
Based on its fundamental discovery about the architecture of systems-level middleware, SpecOpS Labs has simply outdistanced all other players in the field. From this, our partners and stakeholders will not only realize handsome financial gain, but share in the ultimate entrepreneurial dream of changing the shape of the IT industry to come.
If it's MIT-era wine they don't have to release anything. Slashbots need to slow the fuck down before their heads implode. They (by in large) contribute next to nothing of value to the "open source movement," but they sure as Hell have a mighty sense of entitlement.
I got this one from Richard Lederer. It uses each letter exactly once. It cant be beaten.
Sunlit World Scheme. Weird and different.
....all the Dicks out there
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
That shortens it by one letter, and includes the missing "s"!
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
(I think it means something about an unlucky grassland annoying a certain type of cattle belonging to a mosque. There're more here.)
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
... with a digital camera. I wonder what their offices look like? I'm sure we would all love to know.
Remember [H]ard|OCP's expose "Behind the Infinium Phantom Console"? Perhaps someone needs to perform some similar detective work in this case as well.
I've found an alternative that allows windows programs to run natively. Check it out here
What is all this non-sense about wine being ripped off? Code reuse is the essence of free software.
More developers means more eyes and less bugs. I am glad to see that there will be competition on the supported wine app space. This should keep the crossover-office guys on their toes, right Jeremy?
Pragmatism as an ideology is not particularly pragmatic in the long term. Keep it in mind when you dismiss Free Software
YHBT.
Shalom.
Signed,
Bignose American whose taxes are sent to your country as "aid".
My native language is Hebrew. How many languages can you convey a message in so that people can understand, with or without grammar mistakes?
Meanie, meanie, tickle... Up yours, Sun.
(How many languages can you pun in simultaneously, beyatch?)
the reason why OpenOffice is not sufficient a replacement for MS-Office is that it can't exchange Excel and Powerpoint documents well.
I have never ever seen any Powerpoint presentation that would display properly in OpenOffice and when I prepared presentations using OpenOffice, just about everybody I sent it to complained that it wouldn't display properly in Powerpoint. If you need to exchange presentation documents with customers or if you get powerpoint presentations from external sources, then there is no way around using Powerpoint. OpenOffice doesn't cut it (yet).
The situation with Excel is a little better, but if you are using some of the more sophisticated features of Excel, then again, you will find that OpenOffice can't cope with the documents. Again, if you get Excel documents from external sources, for many documents there is no way around using Excel. Again, OpenOffice doesn't cut it (yet).
Not that I am saying MS-Office is better, but for most people who exchange documents with others in their jobs, they don't really have an alternative because Micro$oft controls the document formats.
I wish that one of these days we will see an anti-trust case against Micro$oft that doesn't miss the point so badly as the ones we have seen in the US and EU, ie. whether or not to bundle a browser/media-player etc etc etc
The trust busters need to grow up and learn that the only remedy they should be seeking is to prevent Micro$oft from using proprietary document formats. Document formats for things like wordprocessing, spreadsheets and presentations should be standardised and every company with a market share over 50% should automatically be obliged by anti-trust law to comply with those (non-proprietary) standard formats or else automatically have their non-compliant product banned.
I'd think that it would take less than one year to break Micro$soft's monopoly if such a regime was in force. On the other hand, any anti-trust initiative that doesn't address document formats is doomed from the very start to fail.
I don't speak Hebrew (for instance, so if I wanted to put up a website in Hebrew I would be courteous enough to get a Hebrew translator to ensure it was correct.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
inetnum: 203.81.46.160 - 203.81.46.191
netname: SOL-ONE-SG
descr: SOL ONE
country: SG
admin-c: EL8-AP
tech-c: EL8-AP
remarks: Spam and Security: abuse@pacific.
slashdot moaned about the "junk" char's, so i'l split this in to a couple of posts
THANKS for the understanding of my obtuse and facetious sycophantic humor of MS Gates skills and abilities.
....
[good one for "Home-LAN"] Home-LAN security by MS and Intel will develop new Home-LAN Scrutiny for Home-Land Security policy/law enforcement at home.
The never ending conspiracies
OldHawk777
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?