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HP Releases Linux-Based Notebook
SteamyMobile writes "As the article says, 'In a sign the Linux operating system may be gaining traction beyond server and other back-room systems, HP said Tuesday it will be the first major PC maker to ship a business notebook computer pre-installed' with Linux. This is great news because, as anyone who has ever tried to run Linux (or even Windows XP) on a laptop knows, laptops come with all kinds of funky hardware, and it's often a mess trying to find and configure the right kernel modules to make things like software suspend work correctly. Having it shipped pre-loaded, and with support, makes it easy for me to decide where I'm getting my next laptop. Linux has been ready for the desktop for a while now, but it is good to see companies like HP acknowledging that."
Linux isn't only ready for the desktop, it's ready for the laptop too!!! And I also have an HP laptop which I'm happy about, where gentoo runs without any trouble on "standard" laptop parts. Only tricky bit was getting the DRI to work with the radeon mobility u1, but even that was easy. Go HP!
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
get one without linux pre installed?
cause I really like that windows stuff! especially solataire
Good News, linux on a laptop!
Bad News, the laptop is an HP. Heh, sorry.
I'd be more impressed with HP's Linux offerings if they'd support the current crop of laptops out there, specifically the ones with Broadcom wireless drivers and media card slots. Sure, I managed to wrestle the wireless drivers into submission and usability, but the media slots have no hope of ever being usable at this state.
Is it really a selling point selling a laptop pre-installed with Linux because it's such a challenge otherwise? What happens when it comes time for my annual reinstall? Not a real bargain if you ask me. You know this unit will be simplified to the point of removing the learning curve for Linux, and so it will be sold to novices who will be in the dumper when it comes time to fix the wear and tear. Just my 2 cents.
lots of people bitch and complain aboout the quality of hp laptops, i think theyre great. personally i would have thought ibm would be the first major laptop maker to embrace linux pre-loaded, oh well hp is going to make a lot of money from this. thanks hp.
Fink said the launch is a test "so that we can see the take up we get for this particular product."
Soooo.... if the "take up" is insufficient, then the test failed? Where is the customer left in that case?
SourceHosting.net, LLC
Ready. Set. Code.
http://www.sourcehosting.net/
RTFA... it's Suse.
2nd paragraph "The HP Compaq nx5000 will feature Novell Inc.'s SuSE Linux"
So the new term "Laptop Panic" on top of kernel panics. Hope people don't have "Bladder Panic" when they start seeing those kernel panics :)
Now why would anyone want to run Linux on a POS HP laptop? HP needs to stick with printers.
Apple Laptops run Linux with full hardware upport VERY nicely and have over a broad generation of laptops.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
From the looks at it, the price is work it just for having wireless configured. It's a real PITA.
This does look really nice though, and I'm glad to see that they are using Suse, which seems to be the best "User Oriented" distrobution out there. I'm actually a little suprised that they can make a notebook no more expensive than it is with all supported hardware, as I've noticed Linux compatible hardware tends to be a wee bit more expensive than non-supported hardware.
I do have two concerns though, first off is the quality of the notebook. OS aside, if the hardware isn't robust enough to stand up to lots of abuse, then it won't sell well and someone will probably blame that on Linux. The second concern I have is that while Suse Professional is wonderful, the personal edition seems to really lack some important things (like a compiler. I don't care if your not a developer, if your using linux at some point you will want to install software that has to be compiled for your system).
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
"All of those parts of this notebook have been turned on, work completely and are fully supported," he said. (from the article)
I love this. I have a Gateway 400vtx. Works, the damn video card is irritating and Gateway sucks.
But for 1140?
I AM THEIR. It's mine. I want it. It's mine.
For a long time I thought, who needs a laptop? The desktop is faster and cheaper.
But now that I have one? I use it more then my desktop.
Why? Because it's convienient. I like to sit down in the middle of the room with the laptop in front of me. With the front propted up on my crossed legs It's confortable for my hands, and I am around other people instead of stuck in the "computer room". I take it outside, I take to work. Take it on trips.
Nice.
My desktop is for gaming (that runs linux, too).
It's nothing wonderfull, but it's nice. I have a couple tv capture cards, so I stream TV to my laptop and record shows to watch at work in the background.
It's nice. And one that is sold brand new with Linux installed? Everything works out of the box?
No kernel patching no experimental drivers? Great. Plug n run. Keep my big media stuff on my old Desktop, now gaming rig/file server/media server/mythtv backend. Work gets done the on laptop.
(oh and if you think that "hey windows you don't have to patch". I prefer to expend effort getting something to work, rather then continiously fixing broken crap. Windows is the death of a thousand cuts.)
i think you mean bsd instead of linux ;-)
And will HP be providing tech support for users who have problems with Linux (yeah yeah, I know there are few problems with Linux/Suse, but you never know...)?
I've got a 12inch powerbook; no wireless, no external video, and no sleep. I can do without wireless and sleep, but not having external video is a real killer... I still have to use my ancient Dell when I do presentations.
And I think the same goes for almost every powerbook that's been released in the last year and a half.
Try to customize this laptop on HP's website and you'll find "Note for SuSE Linux: MultiBay DVD+RW and Intel PRO wireless not supported."
I pretty much got fed up making linux on the laptop work and just sold off my Dell to pick up a iBook. If this had been an option at the time, I may have considered it. As it is, OSX has all the unixy goodness plus none of the hassle.
HP said Tuesday it will be the first major PC maker
While PC stands for personal computer and can mean a wide variety of things, it usually means things that != Apple.
I would assume so. Apple laptops are highly popular among geeks and their hardware doesn't change much after each release. The drivers stay the same across most of the line. PCs, on the other hand, change with each brand and model making it more difficult to write drivers to fit all of them.
I haven't used SuSE in a while, but I'm happy they chose it over Linspire or those other "distros". Actually, for this purpose, I can't think of a better distro. Mandrake is kind of slow and Fedora is more beta testers tinkering than a distro I'd want to offer to my customers. I'm not trolling there, Red Hat agrees with me :)
SuSE also has a good repuation of GPL'ing their work where as Linspire won't even offer a free download AFAIK.
HP said Tuesday it will be the first major PC maker to ship a business notebook computer pre-installed' with Linux.
Hardly. I owned an IBM T20 which qualifies as a business notebook computer and it shipped with Linux years ago. Here is the coverage from June 19/2000.
Supporting linux on all the hardware they have sold would be expecting way too much from a company. It'd be quite a large step if they make it a point to offer linux as a supported option in their newer models from this point on.
ACPI and to a lesser extent APM are a struggle in Linux. I didn't realize this until I bought my 15" Powerbook. Now I know. The next killer app/functionality for Linux is laptop compatibility/wireless. Show me that sleep/sus[pend will work out of the box and my management will be sold since the release of Evolution/exchange connector.
This guy is way out there
The article points out that there's only a $60 difference between the Linux-equiped laptop and the comparable model from HP running Windows. Am I the only one who thinks that's exactly what HP is paying for their OEM licenses since they buy it bulk? (A Foogle search reveals that there are many web outlets who will gladly sell you an OEM Windows XP Home copy for about $80-$100, provided you also buy a piece of hardware at the same time to keep the transaction within Microsoft's rules.)
Would be reliable suspend/resume to/from disk and memory, with all devices waking up correctly. I've heard that Powerbooks with Linux can do that, but I don't own one (yet)..
I think its a great idea. Through the use an open source and free operating system they reduce the cost of the machines building cost by.. say.. $150 worth of licencing fee for Windows. This means HP can produce a laptop with better valur for money, and for the same cost as a machine running Windows you could get more RAM or a bigger hard drive.
I couldn't think of a sig.
HP Press Release
I have beeing playing with SUSE 9 for the last 3 months on some servers, and I have been impressed. My traditional background has been Slakware, Redhat & Mandrake.
Good to see it on HP.
lounge around on the blue couch
No, Linux works alright.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Maybe there should be more of a difference and maybe not, but this is the first time I've seen comparable computers offered for LESS money with Linux instead of Windows, at least from a major manufacturer. I would call that a HUGE step in the right direction!
Thanks HP. I want to get a laptop within the next year, and you just moved to the top of my list!
Absolutely true! I have Gentoo running on an iBook and it's a spectacular linux laptop. The only complaint I have is that theres no way to get graphics acceleration because the video card is a radeon mobility M6, for which there are no open source drivers, and the ATI binary drivers dont run on ppc. I believe PowerBooks have or have the option to use, and nVidia card. That would be nice
No, you can put Linux on an iBook or PowerBook and it runs just fine, though unless you got a blank one and didn't want to buy OS X I don't see much point to it, when the hardware comes with a specialized BSD that natively runs most commonly used nongame software -- and GNU chess is probably better for your brain than solitaire anyhow.
I don't really think laptops are as much trouble with linux as people make out. At one point they were a big hassle, but in my experience (admittedly, not particularly extensive) the difficulty of installing linux on a laptop over installing it on a regular PC nowadays is negligible. Sure, laptops still tend to come with weirder hardware, but really, most distros have gotten quite good at supporting most of it right out of the box.
You forgot Gentoo
I expect this will be successful simply because of how enormously inconvenient it is for Linux users to buy a laptop bundled with WinXP and get a refund, or how expensive that OS is to just pay for and not use. However, if you don't like SuSE, there's always FreeDOS on a Dell and installing the Linux distribution of your choice later. I guess this rules in the convenience stakes - as convenient as buying a WinXP laptop - and that's its selling point.
(Note that this certainly isn't the first popular Linux laptop.)
I've got Slackware running good on my IBM Thinkpad T22, with a Cisco Aironet wireless card, and mini-PCI (3Com I believe), kernels 2.4.x and 2.6.x. It works like a champ. I've set up Quickswitch to easily use different network profiles and different XF86Configs at login (to use super-duper scrolling mouse). It's really as easy as a desktop. In fact, I'm using it now. For more detailed info: click here.
This is set up dual-booting Win2000, which I very rarely boot.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Well, OS X is ready for the lapdance.
I presume you mean the SD slot as media card...
The SD consortium folks did not publish enough information for open source drivers. You had to sign various agreements to see the specs, etc.
However, this situation is now changing...
Our dear Redmond friends recently asked them for permission to ship SD drivers in source form; we (HP) said "sure, so long as open source drivers are possible". So this got them off the dime to open up SD implementations (at least the software side; they are keeping the mechanical and electrical specs locked up; they want to ensure interoperability of the hardware, and enforce it as part of the contracts you have to sign to get access to those specs).
So the programming specs are getting opened up; this should have taken place by now. This didn't happen in time for the Nx5000.
There is an SD driver developed independently on the iPAQ handheld for Linux from information that had already leaked out over the last several years; this needs further work for particular SD chip implementations. But it was problematical to distribute, at least by a member of the SD group.
At least it is now possible for do drivers, not possible in the past. I don't know how long it will take to get support done for a particular implementation; if you are interested, go for it!
- Jim
I bought a Thinkpad T21 a few years ago that was preloaded with Linux. HP is not the first.
In fact, a later model (the T22) came with what to my knowledge was the only legal DVD playing software for Linux, Intervideo's LinDVD, a port of WinDVD, which could never be purchased seperately and AFAICT is no longer available anywhere.
I've seen this happen before. Many times. And as I write this, Microsoft is calling HP to remind them of the terms of their mandate^H^H^H^H^H^H^H contract. And as the conversation progresses, the potential cost increases to HP's Windows licenses might get a mention.
Five seconds until HP fires off a press release stating that they are not really selling a Linux laptop. Four. Three. Two ....
Then I can ..... oh wait!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
From the product web page: (Note for SuSE Linux: MultiBay DVD+RW and Intel PRO wireless not supported.) And the base price has changed since the article was published.
...why the hell the stille recommend winxp?
Finally, linux on a laptop, pre-installed! This is the ultimage geek dream come true. Linux on my Dell 600m was a PITA, but everything seems to work finally (invluding software suspend!). Let me know if you have one of em and want a .config.
I think you'll find that the parent is talking about Yellow Dog Linux. Sorry if that wink meant you knew and were making a joke.
which is dumb and stupid. I know it's true...but it's lame-ass mass marketing taking a toll on our society.
Stupid business majors.
I know that I should be "grateful for what I have", but I've got a couple gripes about "linux on laptops". Keep in mind, however, that I own an IBM Thinkpad X30, and I do run single-boot debian sid on it.
:-/ (Anyone know why hostap stuff hasn't been brought into the main kernel tree?)
1) IBM needs to get their act together and offer Linux support, at the very least, for their laptop line. Their hardware is mostly supported already, but it shouldn't be necessary for me to pay the extra amount for a licensed copy of Windows XP, which I'll never use just to get a well-built laptop. What's more, they're advertising linux for enterprise use, and enterprises use laptops. I don't see how moving to linux couldn't be anything but good for them now, overall - or at least moving in and helping linux laptop development, so that it is soon mature enough for IBM to start offering it at a corporate level on laptops.
2) It would be nice to start getting a little bit better kernel and X support for things like suspend and power ACPI. At the very least a listing somewhere on manufacturer's sites saying, "hey, our hardware needs this specific version of software to work properly if you run Linux" - it's often difficult to find definitive information on such topics, and people will often get things working when others are not able to for odd reasons. Personally, hard or soft suspend do not currently work for me w/ kernel 2.6 and X 4.3 running the dri-trunk debs - on current sid - on my X30. Returning from suspend results in X being borked, requiring a reboot to fix. (Anyone that has information as to why this is occuring, or what the fix might be, and I'd appreciate hearing from you...)
3) Wireless support. I'm not talking solely about drivers, as those have improved significantly* and are on the right road, but wireless tools for useland. As far as I know, it's currently fairly difficult (via waproamd, the only thing I've seen to do this) to get a wireless card to 'roam' from network to network as you go from, say, home or work. There needs to be a good userland tool for this.
4) * The wireless drivers in the kernel itself are still pretty shitty and minimal, and wlan-ng sucks horribly. The hostap 2.x drivers are a significant improvement over the other two in every regard (as far as I've seen), but actual support in the kernel really should be improved.
5) power management tools don't seem to work too well. It's quite possible that I'm simply ignorant on the matter, but tools such as cpudyn and cpufreqd do not scale the processor's speed dynamically when losing AC power, or gaining it again. In my experience, the daemons need to be restarted manually.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I've discovered that Windows HP laptops don't work perfectly all of the time. It would be nice to have a Linux HP laptop in which all components work, but if HP can't get it perfectly right for Windows, then I'm not too eager to switch to an OS that is notoriously complicated when it comes to unusual parts.
You see, I'm working at a law school that has a WEP-encrypted 802.11G network. We've got two IBM loaner laptops while we get everything prepared for the school year. Both of them got online fairly easily. A student brought in a Dell yesterday, which also was pretty painless to get on the network. HPs? No!
We've had two HP laptops come in over the past two days. I don't think the network is broadcasting an SSID or is otherwise blatantly open (talking outside of encryption, too), but the IBMs and Dell didn't have a problem getting online. We're going to have to call HP to find out why their laptops aren't cooperating.
Now, two laptops is no biggie. However, we're going to have around 200 people at the school, trying to get online, in about three weeks. I would guess a significant portion (20+, perhaps?) will have HP laptops. We *have* to get them on the network, and Windows isn't working right as it is. Buy a Linux HP laptop? I would be extremely cautious to do so, from what I've seen so far.
I'm a BSD nut, and I still installed linux on my ibook for a while. Why? Because I wanted to. It's something to do just to see how it feels. Of course, the first thing i dual booted was Darwin and OS X. Oh man, that makes even less sense than dual booting linux and OS X...but i wanted to do it. So I did. Yeah, I used it less than 10 times.
Well it seems like "Linux Certified" hardware is getting easier and easier to find. I bought a laptop about 2-3 years ago from Sony and it was a pain to get USB to work, I had to user the patch, but with successive kernel releasies it got acctually fixed in the kernel code and it started working straight out of box after kernel 2.4.22 or so.
Now that HP is getting their certified laptops out there I feel that rest of the manufacturers would also start geting their act together. After all people who buy these things and run Linux on them are probably the people who'll recomend these computers to their Joe Sixpack friends. I can't count how many times I recomended a computer or a piece of hardware based on how well it worked with Linux, just so to support the cause and support companies that acctually use standards and are not biased towards a certian OS.
that on their website, you can't customize the laptop with linux. one would think they would sync the website with their announcement. the options on their website states linux is an option, but you just can't actually configure a laptop with linux and buy it. does that mean you still have to pay the MS tax?
Hmm, my 12 inch powerbook does all of those things. You sure you own a powerbook or a P-P-P-powerbook?
I miss adequacy.org.
Is it Linux day today at Slashdot??
;-)
80% of the submissions are Linux-related... am I missing something here?
Not that I don't love Linux... I very much do, but aren't any other subjects for news today?
I kinda miss the worm-of-the-day headline...
-P@
signal_connect(0, "test_top.dut.my_sig", "clk");
I think is is great that a major manufacturer is claiming to support
end user linux
I just hope that HP is not just using this as a "token" gesture.
My experience with getting information about HP's Mandrake Linux
desktops in the past was horrible.
The "Linux Option" always seems to disappear at their website
when you got to the configuration page. The only option is Windows XP. It
is like a bait and switch.
When you called HP you would get strange evasive answers like "Linux?"
or "We don't offer Linux."
??? Do what ??
After arguing with them and convincing them that HP is supposed to
be selling Linux
then your phone call gets redirected several times. Out of frustration
and waste of time you hang up. The version of Mandrake "offered" was an
older one.
It is like HP really didn't want to sell linux at all.
So, HP, please don't give us the bait and switch.
To put it politely. Hey HP, please clean up your %#&*ing act.
Actually, I'm referring to the multiple media slot on the ZD7010. This device would probably have been supported as a mass storage device if it was a USB device, but the way HP has integrated it into the laptop, it's not a supported device.
I'm not asking for them to support some funky ISA bus card cage docking station (or worse), I'm asking them to support current hardware that enjoys Windows support. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask for. I'm sure they're not re-inventing their product line by offering a Linux compatible machine (and if they are, perhaps they should make the hardware changes across the board to all of their laptops).
I heard that HP was officially suppoting Gnome (the link is 4 yrs old, and I haven't heard anything different. Please correct me if I'm wrong). So much for that! SuSE's support of Gnome is spotty at best. In fact, in the default install of 9.1 Personal (ISO download version) Gnome isnt installed at all. That's really too bad. I saw the screenshots from the previous slashdot article, Gnome 2.8 is looking pretty damn good!
bash: rtfm: command not found
installing linux on my laptop. It's like eating food chew'd by others.. I'll choose my own packages, thank you very much.
The problem of linux running well on some random low-cost laptop that shows up on your desk one afternoon is still just as bad...
Disclaimer: I work for a company, but I don't speak for them.
Linux has been ready for the desktop for a while now, but it is good to see companies like HP acknowledging that.
What are you smoking? Linux is ready for the desktop like windows 2 was ready for the desktop. Its clunky to configure, has issues with even common hardware (many manufacturers still refuse to ship Linux drivers), comes with an RTFM mentality for support, and requires you to fiddle with initialization scripts. What's more open office is a poor replacement for MS Office, and the same is true where there are apps to replace the industry standard.
Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. We need to wake up to this and grow up. We have to stop patting ourselves on the back for the "good enough" lookie what we did for free operating system (and if you don't like it you're stupid). What's more you can't goof off and play as many games on it as on windows.
If Linux was ready for average the desktop user, people would be making the switch in droves. New users and children would never touch windows. The proof is simple - this HP computer shipping with Linux supported is the exception not the rule.
We need to do MUCH MUCH better!!!
Mod me how you want but you know its true.
Actually, you should go and browse Yellow Dog Linux's site. They provide PowerBooks and iBooks with YDL preinstalled, dual boot with OSX. Even for these experts, not all hardware is supported.
I have installed Gentoo on an iBook with fair results; it works better on my G4 desktop. I've done better on the Dell Inspiron 2150. The best two laptops, in my experience are the Dell Inspiron 7000-7500 (old, yes, but works 100%) and the IBM T41.
While this may be a good start, I won't be impressed until I can walk in to my local Best Buy or Circuit City and buy one. Then, and only then, will Linux have "arrived".
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Not only that, but as my IT support buddy says... even components on the SAME MODEL can be different.
Linux has a reputation for performance, reliability and low cost, though Microsoft and others have questioned whether it's in fact faster, cheaper and more secure in the long run than proprietary operating systems.
This is a riot!! Micro$oft is questioning whether linux is more secure than Winblows?!?! Yeah - and cows are flying out of my butt, too!!
I guess this means that there is no need to pay the microsoft tax on these computers, so they'd likely be a little cheaper.
Hopefuly it will become so Linux is the standard installation (because its free) and if you really *want* microsoft windows on your computer you go down to the store and buy it yourself.
3dinfo@maficstudios.com
Great. I've used Toshiba because of pretty good Linux experience with their laptops, but now HP moves to the top of the list. And I won't have to reformat the Microsoft partitions as the first step.
The problem is that HP is not the fondly remembered HP of yesterday who brought us fine and sturdy computers such as the 98xx line.
If only HP could bring back something as slick as the 9826... (bigger image here).
I'd prefer that they didn't install Linux. I'd like to install the distro of my choice.
Instead, I'd be impressed if a manufacturer did the following:
If a laptop manufacturer did that, I'd be so impressed that I'd purchase from them on principle!
I had a linux laptop from Dell (no, HP isn't really the first to do this) once, and it worked decently well, given a few crappy things. One, they had made it impossible to change the desktop background permanently...until you figured out that they'd cut back the rights on the config file (I forget which one) to prevent you from writing to it, even as root. And when I had to reinstall RedHat, suspend didn't work. There was apparently a very specific setting needed to get it working again, which Dell knew about, but it really would have been nice if they'd shared the knowledge they developed in setting the laptops up, so that it didn't revert to the same old problem as any other laptop as soon as a reinstall was needed.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Well, except for the lack of an Airport Extreme driver. And the ATI card. I'm very seriously considering buying a 15" PowerBook to use as a Linux laptop, but those are two big points that are turning me off. Mostly the WiFi, actually (I can do without 3D acceleration on my laptop). I know I can buy a new WiFi card for $50, but I'd rather use the Airport Extreme because it's built-in. :)
So I'm not sure. I might end up with an AMD64 laptop and a PowerMac instead. Those dual G5's are tempting
LOAD "SIG",8,1
I'm confused.
"it's often a mess trying to find and configure the right kernel modules to make things like software suspend work correctly"
"Linux has been ready for the desktop for a while now"
Fix part A before coming to conclusion B. After dealing with lilo and grub issues this past week, I was reminded why my Xandros installation isn't as desktop friendly as I'd like it to be. FreeBSD is still on my servers, Mac OS X is still on my laptop. Soon, perhaps.
- oZ
// i am here.
There is support fot the Nvidia based laptops - and personally - I think the PowerBook G3 is the way to go
When HP ships FreeBSD (or any laptop vendor) then I'll care.
History lesson: Back in 1995 time frame HP said Unix was dead and the future was NT. Why support HP now, they turned their back on UNIX and gave Microsoft a big wet loving kiss years ago?
Emperor Linux has been offering laptops for a while now. IBM's, Sony Vaio's, Dell's, and Sharp. Preloaded with a custom kernal so that everything works. They also offer custom configured Red Hat workstation or Suse.
Take a look at http://www.emperorlinux.com/
This looks like the best solution to me, and it avoids the HP problem.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
I have a dell inspiron 5150 running Slackware 10. Mine runs like a champ and then some. I use xfce on it and I get great battery life. I used to use fluxbox, but I don't like how their alt-tabbing works.
The only thing I wish had better support is ACPI. I can't suspend my laptop, so I have to turn it off and on each time I want to go somewhere.
Besides that, everything works great. Even xinerama worked almost out of the box. Only had to change the sync rates and the rest went smooth.
The greatest experience we can have is the mysterious.
- Albert Einstein
The point is that you can be sure that all the hardware on the laptop is Linux-compatible. It's not a matter of ease-of-configuration. I bought an HP zt3000 because it was the most Linux-friendly laptop I could find which fit my needs, yet I'm still stuck with a modem and an SD reader which won't work in Linux and probably never will.
This is clearly a mainstream push to be announced in the SFGate.
Cool stuff all around. It looks like fewer and fewer companies are willing to do Microsoft's "careful dance". That's one more company in the revolt. With each entry, M$ is rendered less potent.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I think it is a ringing after-effect of IBM's PC model more than anything else. I doubt marketing types have near the power in this case as a lot of people used PC to mean x86 long before marketing took ahold of the term.
Besides, the article is about a notebook that SHIPS with Linux, straight from the manufacturer. So Apple doesn't qualify.
I guess you guys were asleep earlier this year.
http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/products/mobil e/talin15/
When researching what to get, I came across a Wired article about some guys that hacked the Engenius drivers for BSD to get Powerbooks to work with them.
I think they quadrupled the range because some of them are high power and high sensitivity cards, 200mw and -90db, respectively.
Well, that snippet alone ought to get the left wing radicals a-screamin' and a-yellin'!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
The benefactor of his wife's ketchup empire and a trial attorney who got rich milking the system are not going to depart from politics as usual in Washington, should they win the presidency.
The more you know...
It also has been reported to work on Thinkpad T600. It does it well enough so that XMMS will resume playing were it was. I have not tried it yet because the battery is dead.
My general impression is that APM works well ACPI is buggy but fixable. ACPI reminds me of Winmodems. The bugs are in all systems, though you can disable them in Linux and have hardware that works. We shall see if having a vendor in the works makes things better. I bet it does. I've had at least one machine where all sorts of problems vanished with an ACPI bios upgrade.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Do people really like those touch-pad mice or do they just use them for the coolness factor? This HP laptop has one. Trying to move my big finger around those little rectangles to point to an icon or a menuitem is just plain frustrating. My old IBM Thinkpad did it right with its pencil-eraser mouse between the G, H, and B keys.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
What about mac osx ?
People don't really care about operating systems unless it becomes a problem running certain software that they like.
Mac does it all. Has all the word processing, web browsing, art and graphics software people want.
I think linux has the full package.
Recovery partition is only on desktops... Unfortunately, a Compaq notebook I bought a couple years ago included a recovery partition. What a waste of hard drive space! I wish it had simply come with a recovery DVD and better yet, that it had allowed per-application recovery instead of full-drive recovery, which is a nice option, but a stupid, short-sighted thing to force on users.
For a PowerBook 2003 G4 GeForce FX Go5200 - 12"
10/100 ethernet Yes
gigabit ethernet Yes
video Yes
CD-ROM Yes
FireWire Yes
audio Yes
external video No
USB Yes
CD-RW Yes
AirPort Extreme No
Bluetooth No
Sleep No
Wow, that is a lot of NOs for something "fully supported". A regular toshiba or dell can handle linux just as well if not better (that's right, at least my internal 802.11g wifi card works perfectly under fedora and gentoo) HP has done a lot in terms of linux support, just take a look at all the linux supported printer! Great work hp, i hope toshiba will follow this lead some time soon.
This Sig is removed due to factual inaccuracy
That's interesting. On W2K system I have, right clicking on any icon on win explorer would hange explorer and I had to kill it and start it again. Was very hard to figure out what the heck was going on with no type of debug information or anything. I was about to reinstall the whole damned thing, until I erased the culprit, the "Eraser" program for some reason made it hang. It expands the right click menu on explorer with it's options and apparently it was hanging explorer. Now, you can blame it on a bug in this program, but the same program worked fine in another system. I got lucky but this clamored for a reinstall.
At work, installing the latest service pack screwed up my computer. When I applied service pack 4, it went ahead and did most of the work, but got an error and told me it didn't finish. What was the error? I have no idea, just told me there was an error. Great stuff huh? Now the service pack that is reported on the computer says it's got 4, but it really isn't at that level. Uninstalled it, went back to SP1, and got bombarded by the sasser worm. The fix from MS and symantec can't remove it, and now cmd.exe fails to start.
Don't need to reinstall it? Think again.
- sigs are for wimps.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/toys/6de4/act ion/
HP basically abandoned me in their support ...)
department with an Omnibook 800CT that kept
having memory/system board failures. I would
no more buy another HP "anything" than I would
another Microsoft "anything". (Thank goodness
HP spun off their electronic test equipment
division
I bought an Apple 14" Powerbook to replace it,
(1 GHz/1 GB) and have never regretted it. If
I ever feel compelled to install linux on it
(dual-boot), there is always "Yellow Dog Linux".
I went to HP's online store and I clicked every link I could find pertaining to the nx5000. I saw only one page that mentioned SUSE as an option, and zero places where I could actually CHOOSE that option when configuring. On the other hand, every single page I saw had in bold letters "HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional" right at the top. So is this even for real?
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I think you forget the important steps:
[aleph-null]Trained monkey offers the extended warranty again.
[aleph-null]Joe refuses the extended warranty again. [aleph-null]Trained monkey offers the extended warranty again, this time with hot grits.
[aleph-null]Profit!!!
(and if I remember right, aleph null = infinity)
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
How about starting with the SoundBlaster soundcard? It has full open source drivers from the manufacturer (at least for the SBLive!), and support is flaky at best. If the Linux community doesn't take the ball and run with it, hardware manufacturers will have no incentive to support anything.
I keep hearing that all that is needed is support from the manufacturers, but that isn't apparently enough. Not even open source drivers FROM the manufacturer are enough, at least in the case of a simple sound card, which is incredibly common and not right off the manufacturing line or so old you can't get them any more.
See here and here for more info, and don't forget to call me a liar and a troll for good measure, and don't address the problem.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Do you have a resource for a Broadcom wireless driver? I'm running Mandrake 10 on my Acer Aspire 1712, and I don't know how to get the wireless adapter to work. It's not that big a deal for me, but if I can get it to work, I'll do it.
The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank.
-- Scotty.
Funny thing - I don't know if it's been mentioned already. Grabbing the model name, pumping it into Google and after "feeling Lucky", the first thing I see is:
C ompaq+nx5000&btnG=Google+Search 6 0_na/11860_na.HTML
/. article.
HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
See for yourself:
Google result:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=HP+
Hp's page:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/118
It's funny how you only notice these things after reading a relevant
HURD - Hurd's Under Research & Development
Next time, I'm leaning toward a nice IBM notebook, mostly because they've been standup guys lately where Linux is concerned, and HP CEO Carly Fiorina has been making a lot of noise about DMCA crap on all HP products. Just how the hell are they going to lock up a Linux notebook with DRM?
I'm glad that HP is shipping a Linux notebook PC, but this isn't some corporate altruism. The only reason for an HP Linux notebook is they see the writing on the wall and don't want to follow the next wave. You know, the big wave, where Linux sweeps over the entire planet?
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
...is one of the NX-series, although it came with Windows XP.
However, I have an installation of XandrOS 2.0 on it, and it runs just fine. The only thing missing is the power manager-type controls (which presumably HP's version of Suse Linux has) -- for me, it hasn't been a problem, since it's really used as a desktop machine that travels from office to office every month or so (versus one I carry daily), but I sure would love to have that power management stuff...
Obviously because hardware people don't know how to make good software.
I have an old Toshiba Terca 8000 which works fine under Linux ... ie ACPI works like a charm and sound and even that stupid PCMCIA wifi card I have that needs ndiswrapper to work.... 99% of computer hardware works very well for basic futures under Linux.
its the 1% that is very annoying.
Though still is good that HP , etc are selling laptops with linux pre-installed now . What took them so long ?
I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but the nx5000 will also be shipping with OpenOffice.org. Yay! Another alternative to Microsoft. I think this is great, but how many people will actually get one of these laptops? Hopefully, HP won't dump linux like Dell did a few years back.
I thought Dell was the first to offer linux preinstalled on laptops? Guess Dell wasn't a "major PC maker" back then...
Hey,
This is good news, but I was at LinuxWorld today and I was sooo impressed with the guys from Linux Certified that I'll be seriously surprised if my next Linux Laptop doesn't come from them. When you go with a smaller vendor like Linux Certified and you have a problem, the person who answers the phone (there's the first difference, a human will answer the phone) will actually know something about Linux and be able to help you.
I applaud HP, but it's too little too late in my book. Linux Certified closed a sale today with old-fashioned customer service.
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
It's always best to keep your product away from the market where it might stand a real change. Compared to the US, in Europe SuSe at least have a decent userbase. Why not launching that thing here? Don't tell me we have to wait for that Dell running R......
Depending on what chip it is, ndiswrapper may or may not work with it. Hit ndiswrapper.sf.net and start reading up on the driver after you download it. Mandrake needs a few tweaks (remove the ndiswrapper path from /lib/modules/currentkernel/modules.dep first) but the docs explain all this. Good luck.
"glad to see that they are using Suse"
I'm disappointed that it isn't Debian. IIRC, HP has a representative on the Debian Desktop project. The worst part of working with Debian is the install and hardware configuration (both of which would be done for you here; just add a recovery disk and a few CDs as a local apt-get repository and off you go).
I would seriously consider a preinstalled basic Debian for a dual boot system with XP Pro. With Suse, I would just get XP Pro and add Suse afterwards...the preinstall isn't as helpful.
Debian is also free beer, which would allow the price to be lower than its MS Windows equivalent.
So that's how they make it "secure." No one knows how the cards work, so they can't steal your data.
Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it
The difference being, there are drivers for every piece of hardware in every notebook written specifically for Windows XP. Saying that installing it on a notebook is difficult shows how little objectivity slashdot has these days. I'm not bashing anyone or anything, just people saying stupid stuff that's blatantly not true.
I installed Slackware 9.0 on my Vaio FXA47 over a year ago, just upgraded to 10.0. Ran with nary a problem, other than the typical winmodem garbage (I wasn't about to pay for a modem driver I use once a year. I'll deal with 14.4 when I'm on the road).
When was the last time you used Linux?
Was that on historic times or knowledge of that period survives only by oral tradition?
Annual reinstal of Linux! Give us a brake Crusty. Or is your name Bozo?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I'm confused... someone with a clue is posting on slashdot! what do i do?!
HP have never built their own printers, they're rebadged Canon parts. You're right though, the laserjet 4's and 5's are so much more reliable than the 4100's (or *shudder* the 4050's) or 5100's that it's hard to believe it's the same brand.
I've worked with monochrome HP laser printers since laserjet II, and I would say they peaked around LJ4 or LJ5. The new ones are pretty much crap in comparison.
...ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
.... is compltetely unintelligible to you?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
They should make this offer in Europe too - it seems the number of people using Linux is even bigger here. I also think it is a shame that self-pronounced Linux supporter IBM still does not do this and still only offers (even "recommends") Microsoft products for their laptops (though I am running various versions of Suse Linux on various IBM Thinkpads now for years). It is really about time that hardware vendors stop forcing us to buy something that at least some will only throw away and replace by something else.
4) (Anyone know why hostap stuff hasn't been brought into the main kernel tree?)
Read Linux: Generic 2.6 Wireless Driver,
"Jeff Garzik, the network device driver maintainer, announced the creation of a wireless-2.6 development tree, aiming to provide some generic wireless code that is non-intrusive enough to be merged into the 2.6 stable tree [forum]. He chose the Host AP driver as the starting point, with the intention of merging in some of the other existing work, including the current open source Centrino driver. "
I didnt understand any of that post and dont know what you are talking about. But I read the last line as "Truly An American Loon", and thought it must have been your sig.
The Zaurus has run Linux with SD for quite some time now, with both Sharp's OS and other 3rd party OS's.
...
Great site to help get Linux working on your laptop- worked for my Dell M60...
http://www.linux-laptop.net/
Who overarted this? - it's gotten the most positive responses in the entire thread
If you're in a position to help make purchasing decisions at your company, and you need a laptop or more than one you should try to buy from HP. Vote with your dollars and help bring linux into the mainstream.
I'm not sure what information you expect us to extract from the two articles you link to. I don't intend to wade through them for references to the SB Live! The SB Live! does have a great driver..if you're not using ALSA. ALSA took a working OSS driver and bodged it, but the original OSS driver still supports multi-channel PCM, AC3 passthrough, 96khz sampling on the Audigy, TOSlink, the Live Drive and I believe it also supports positional audio. What else is there for it to do?
MIDI support is important for me (which is why I'm using the ALSA driver over the OSS drivers).
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
You'll also need the Windows driver in order to make it work. The ndiswrapper site explains this as well, but just thought I'd bring it up. There's also a commercial driver wrapper at www.linuxant.com, which will also work, and may be a bit easier to install than ndiswrapper.
Am I the only one who actually reinstalls linux 3 or 4 times a year? It might be that I do stupid things while tired, "sudo ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge -U world", might not be the healthiest thing to do... For the record, I have currently two seperate WinXP installs older than two years... They aren't fast, but the do work. (As well as Windows ever works...)
The HP nx5000 Laptop page in the online store
"Apple Laptops run Linux with full hardware support VERY nicely and have over a broad generation of laptops."
Got any more information on this? When I asked YellowDog about their iBook pre-loaded with linux, there were a number of things not supported, including critical things like support for an external monitor.
If you want support and easy configuration, try DriverLoader. It's only $20, and it works great on my Dell TrueMobile 1300 card (Broadcom chip).
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Given that there are specialized apps that (at least for the forseeable future) are only available to run under Windows -- business-specific apps, specialized tools like HDL synthesis and device programmers, schematic capture/board layout (gEDA is getting there but it needs to interoperate with existing tools), etc. (fill in your own examples from your industry) -- it's difficult to completely break with Windows.
And given that if someone wants to use Linux but also needs to run Windows then whichever single-boot OS they start with, they will need to go though the partition / format / install / boot / curse / redo loop.
If some bright vendor were able to sell a system/notebook that, out of the box, would dual boot, they'd probably make a bundle. Buy a box with just Linux for $x, or with XP for $x + $100, or with both for the same $x + 100?
Training wheels.
Trusted by cats.
For me, Microsoft Windows is not a product of my country, so it is a foreign operating system!
/pedant
Yeah, I know there is a large place relatively nearby that localises MSWindows, but that doesn't really count.
- This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.
wowser, I though IBM would have a Linux 'top out first, but I was wrong. I'd love to check this out, even though I don't think I would keep SuSE on it, it's very cool to have this option.
So now we need IBM (and DELL) to get in gear so we really have some options to replace my Gentoo powered iBook!
CVB
free ipod and free gmail!
What else is there for it to do? Get it to work right, maybe? The SB Live drivers are not great. At all, even the ALSA version.
The whole gist of the article is that SB drivers don't work very well (not at all for the author through many distros). I have had the same experience - open source drivers, and they don't work, and all I hear are complaints that the manufacturers won't release specs, yadda yadda. What more could you ask for in this case? Developers still dropped the ball.
That's why I gave up on Linux after 5 or more years of this. Too much hassle, not enough stuff that works. SBLive! drivers don't work right a lot of the time (almost never for me, several sets of hardware, several distros), in addition to all sorts of other annoyances.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Hmmm, you're not using apples wireless card then are you.
It is truly amazing to have XMMS and emerge/compile going and then you just click "hibernate" in KDE and everything dies/resurrects properly.
Thanks to Gentoo and people behind swsusp2.
Having done that, the Windows XP is now completely gone from my everyday environment.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-236325.html?legacy=c net&tag=st.ne.1002.thed.1003-200-1538576
They only offered them for a brief while but they were FIRST
There's no reason to support or hate corporations themselves. Support the actions that you like, don't support the actions that you don't like. If enough people do the same as you, it promotes behavior that you like.
(The same is true to an even greater extent with government... and I'd say to a somewhat lesser extent with people.)
You must have accidently hit the wrong button, this should have been +1 funny.
It is about time - this is sweet -
I think my daughter needs a new computer for kindergarten. You know got to give her a head start.
I keep hearing that all that is needed is support from the manufacturers, but that isn't apparently enough.
Nope, and that's the problem. The open source community doesn't *want* closed binary style drivers a la windows, despite clamouring that windows has them and linux doesn't. For some companies where significant functionality is in the drivers, they won't release open source drivers. If Linux made it easy for people to release *plug and play* binary drivers, I'm sure there woudl be more support.
The SD card slot not working was my only complaint about this laptop. I'm glad to see that there will be (eventually) a driver. All the other hardware is pretty standard and has out of the box drivers for it.
I was so stoked when I read this, I called HP to buy one. I just wanted some confirmation first.
I spoke with Lorraine in tech support, and she was very helpful, but she confirmed:
She said these exact words to me:
"You Linux people always seem to be able to write your own drivers, so maybe you can get it to work that way."
FWIW, the wireless is said to be the new Agere WaveLAN trimode chipset, pdf here which claims software support for Linux as well as peaceful co-existence with Bluetooth, but HP is having nothing to do with whether it works or not under Linux.They've got an IBM model there that comes with IBM support...
Wow, a lucrative publishing contract! I don't have to be evil anymore. --Meteor
Will this linux laptop play DVDs legally?
How?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
All we need to know which kernel version, with which driver versions, will run the whole hardware. Or, if there are limitations such as the built-in modem, what the limiations are.
There is no need to support all Linux distros, or single out a supported distribution. Although I have to admit, that is probably a requirement for business customers.
And if they put out a distribution preconfigured for the nx7000, I'd consider paying for that, although I already paid the M$ tax.
nVidia's always done a good job there in my experience. I just find it tiresome to hear about how the manufacturers are at fault, and when they not only release drivers but open source drivers for a very common device such as a SoundBlaster card, the drivers still don't work with any regularity. Across multiple installs. Multiple machines.
The problem isn't the manufacturers.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
I agree! The vendor should also host a community site (forums, faqs, howtos, wiki, knowledge base, etc) for customers that use Linux on their laptops.
Also, they should help underwrite the costs of existing community sites like http://tuxmobil.org/
They should also make every effort to help the community make sleep, powersaving and other laptop
specific features work well on their hardware.
"Yeah well
i thought what the guy was talking about the darwin kernel being descended from berkely unix, i thought he made the mistake and put linux ;-)
yes gnu/linux does kickass on this platform
And with each kernel release it gets better. I had it fine under 2.4.x, but 2.6 made so much more work better. The only thing left is an ACPI issue with not showing batteries if I boot under AC power - so its not a show stopper. I have not tried firewire yet, but I don't see why that would not work.
Glad to see that someone is going to ship it installed though - wouldn't make my decision on a notebook based on that though
a linux laptop on hp site, must be hidden, cause the laptops i saw only offered XP
Their laptops are so buggy I can't even install NetBSD 1.6.2! And I've tried FreeBSD 4.10, FreeBSD 5.2.1 and even BSDi - no luck. HP suxz!
Yellow Dog Linux works well on the white G3 iBooks. The sleep-mode and the wireless AirPort-Card are auppported out-of-the-box. It's a shame, that there ist still noch AirPortExpress driver out there for Linux.
wouldn't that be nice
APPLE IS STILL A PERSONAL FUCKING COMPUTER!
Just because mainly highly liberal-minded people use them, doesn't mean Apple is a Communist organization! They are not Apple's computers that you are using for the good of the apple community, they're YOU computer, you bought it. Period. Dot. Punctuation. Gah i hate mass-marketing.
Thanks for the info. I'll try it out. I'm downlowding KANOTIX, which supposedly has WiFi enabled using ndiswrapper on a bootable CD. I'm going to test that out, too.
The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank.
-- Scotty.
The problem with Mandrake 10 is that ndiswrapper is ancient on it. It ships with ndiswrapper 4 and it's currently at version 9. Alot of support has been added since ver4.