If you call another OS a duplicate effort then you would have the only instance in which you would be correct.
Duplicate efforts are fine in Open Source because it means someone thinks something needs to be changed. Linux itself is a duplicate effort of other Unixs. Sorry by the Anonymous Coward above clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about.
Re:Linux Torvalds is intentionally boycotting it!
on
HURD For 'Big Iron'?
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· Score: 1
Ever see Conspiracy Theory....?
I swear to God their after me. Linus is trying to destroy his life's work for his own financial gain
by rewriting all of linux in Crusoe assembler....
Their goes the neighborhood....
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean I'm not out to get you!!!!
I got an email from the steering committee saying that there NEVER EVEN WAS a gcc 2.96. This is a premature RedHat release. What we do have is pre gcc 3.0 work in progress on our RedHat 7.0 systems.
At least we get kgcc for compiling the kernel as well .
I am running RedHat 7.0 on my laptop and I must say that most of the cutting edge technology included is the only stuff that will drive my PCMCIA card for ethernet.
Having a stable compiler on a system which is deeply seated in a community that advocates downloading source code and "build it yourself" is beyond important... Its critical.
If you can... Use kgcc instead of gcc everywhere.
That is until you remove the crappy compiler that came with RedHat 7.0 and put a stable one on.
Thats funny PCMCIA on RedHat 7.0 is the only distribution that supported my card.
I have no trouble with PCMCIA on my Toshiba Tecra 8100 notebook.
Dave
Right from the get go they call it "one-stop shopping" for the language in that all the code is in one file. That is one reason for me to stay away.
Modularity is clearly the way to make debugging easier unless of course they plan to sell a Microsoft debugger for C# as well. Then I can see the motivation to making a programming nightmare.
I have written programs "one-stop" as was mentioned when I was 14. This was until I learned how much easier it is to write things reusably. How can you possibly reuse code that isn't broken up into logical parts. It also seems to violate some component-like features for a language that is supposed to have deep object orientation.
No thanks Microsoft. I'd rather not try to write or maintain code that sounds like it will be more convaluded than MFC.
I was pleased with the progress of Konqueror in earlier releases of KDE.. I have read the stuff that Konqueror is about to support. Java is the biggest one. I haven't been able to do much with Java in Netscape as many applets cause it to hang.
Then I have to go out and kill Netscape and restart it. I just leave the Java turned off.
It is apparently going to support plugins for Netscape too!
The KDE support in other window managers is growing too so you may be able to run Konqueror reasonably without running KDE. This is necessary for basically anyone with a 14" monitor as my only two beefs with KDE are bulkiness and its usage of my desktop real estate.
I am the type of guy who bought a trackball because a mouse requires more room on my desk. So yes I am probably a little anal about all this...
Well keep up the good work KDE team! I am looking forward to the new release!
Dave
Re:GPL == below minimum wage (CORRECTION)
on
The History of UNIX
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· Score: 1
You CAN charge for a GPL'd program. The question is Who will pay for it.
The only thing you must do is distribute the source and allow users to redistribute freely. Nothing says you cannot sell the program. Its not free beer its freedom!
Freedom to have the same rights as the author.
It doesn't make much sense to sell GPL'd software because of this but it doesn't disallow it.
The script is on a web server. Let's say script kiddie number 1 here wants to screw with linux users everywhere because he think GNOME is stupid.
Well he cracks the server and changes this easy to hack shell script. it now does a rm -rf/.
OOps I ran that as root. The problem is most people who are beginning linux will not think of this. Helix code's convieniently dangerous solution is exactly that. Convienient for new users to wreck their system.
If it went uncaught for an hour and there are 100 people running this in an hour then all 100 people who didn't check are now screwed. Sorry free software has no warranty. This means BE CAREFUL. This sort of thing leads to carelessness.
Because it isn't a well known answer. All I ever hear is the preferred insecure method. If this were more well known perhaps I would try it. For now I am putting GNOME installation on the back burner.
Its a shame really because I really GTK over QT for licensing reasons.
Linux will never be windows but if you want Linux to remove Microsoft from the market you must compete on their battlefield. You can't offer something new that can't steal people from the other side.
It's simple diplomacy. You can't gain support by forcing people to change. You must accomodate them.
If you want linux off the desktop then your point is valid. If you don't want to have to do Microsoft programming or development then you need to get rid of Microsoft. Simple as that.
I know lots of people who say it uses too many resources and that it is a dog to work with. Some of my friends have 386's and 486's and with lower speed CPU's and X you really don't need anymore bogging you down.
I tell them to use blackbox. Most of them do and they are quite happy. When they get a new machine then they can play KDE with the big boys!
Where did you get this information? KDE has an integrated file manager/web browser. I have GNOME and find it ridiculously bulky for the very little it does for me.
KDE is indeed bulky and slower than a straight window manager. Both KDE and GNOME are resource hungry but you pay a price for ease of use and quite frankly I have always KDE easier to use.
GNOME is even more difficult to install. I don't know anyone who has figured out what to download to get it working and the only "easy install tool" means you have to foolishly trust an online shell script via "lynx -source" and run it as root.
No thank you! Until good instructions on what needs to be downloaded and what is extra are released I will stick with KDE.
All I can say is they are certainly addressing the issues about Unix sucking. This is some fantastic news and will help to make linux a real desktop solution.
Now if I can get KDE to turn off the upper "task bar" I may actually use it all the time.
I like KDE but it takes a lot of screen "real estate"
I wish vendors were just ignorant. I got a copy of Allegro Common Lisp that only works with RedHat as advertised. I am sure it is the particular library configuration.
Lisp is tied to deep recursion so system level code is important for good performance. I understand their choosing one distribution. I just wish they would post a doc for the correct libraries to make it work with everyone.
Anyway Maya may be in a similar situation or just picking Red Hat thinking its the most well-known name.
I agree with you and you are not replying to a high school student in this case. I have yet to see linux crash severly when I wasn't the one playing with the kernel.
While true that what is widely used is not necessarily the best, look at Windows for example, I still need to see VMS to believe it.
Eric Raymond is a respected author... I will have to look into what you say.
In fact if you can give me good information on VAX/VMS (since you go by Vaxman I assume you can) systems please follow the URL link and drop me a line at the email address on that page. I actually am interested in it and know very little about it.
Which Unix advocacy texts say this about linux...
I would like to read one of these and see if it isn't.. "Oh dear Unix is failing and linux is rising... We'd better do something." It wouldn't be the first time.
I like linux because it is fun to use and rarely lets me down. I would have to use something that I enjoy to use better in order to agree with you.
No one said linux was perfect.. (It surely isn't I am trying to fix a driver as we speak)
Now if I had to pick a project to see succeed it would probably be The GNU HURD simply because what they are working on is so cool! Microkernels may be the way of the future along with real time systems and embedded OS's.
Remember Linux is still young.. It's coming along pretty well though.
I think the reason it was moderated down to flaimbait is the reason that you have not provided any reasoning to your claims that Unix is "kludged together" VMS may very well be a better OS. Few of us have had the experience of a VMS system.
Maybe the flaimbait was a bit harsh but the response simply shows that the claims cannot be backed up with evidence.
If you want to make a claim be sure to have real evidence of it.
Linux doesn't crash early or often in my experience so I don't understand the signature line either. I would like evidence of an unstable linux system. Heresay shouldn't be considered evidence and anyone influenced by it is simply easy to convince. You cannot expect to convince people with comments like.... This sux or that works great without saying why...
Slashdot Mirror
If you call another OS a duplicate effort then you would have the only instance in which you would be correct.
Duplicate efforts are fine in Open Source because it means someone thinks something needs to be changed. Linux itself is a duplicate effort of other Unixs. Sorry by the Anonymous Coward above clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about.
Ever see Conspiracy Theory....?
I swear to God their after me. Linus is trying to destroy his life's work for his own financial gain
by rewriting all of linux in Crusoe assembler....
Their goes the neighborhood....
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean I'm not out to get you!!!!
:)
ActuaLLY the HURD is not a kernel. MACH is the kernel HURD is a collection of servers that runs on MACH to present a Unix environment.
Try MPI-Pro.
I work for MPI-Softtech. We make it:)
www.mpi-softtech.com
Dave
I though that was very interesting.
while.h
? Infinite Loop Library?
Dave
I got an email from the steering committee saying that there NEVER EVEN WAS a gcc 2.96. This is a premature RedHat release. What we do have is pre gcc 3.0 work in progress on our RedHat 7.0 systems.
At least we get kgcc for compiling the kernel as well .
I am running RedHat 7.0 on my laptop and I must say that most of the cutting edge technology included is the only stuff that will drive my PCMCIA card for ethernet.
Having a stable compiler on a system which is deeply seated in a community that advocates downloading source code and "build it yourself" is beyond important... Its critical.
If you can... Use kgcc instead of gcc everywhere.
That is until you remove the crappy compiler that came with RedHat 7.0 and put a stable one on.
gcc 2.95.2
Dave
Thats funny PCMCIA on RedHat 7.0 is the only distribution that supported my card. I have no trouble with PCMCIA on my Toshiba Tecra 8100 notebook. Dave
Right from the get go they call it "one-stop shopping" for the language in that all the code is in one file. That is one reason for me to stay away.
Modularity is clearly the way to make debugging easier unless of course they plan to sell a Microsoft debugger for C# as well. Then I can see the motivation to making a programming nightmare.
I have written programs "one-stop" as was mentioned when I was 14. This was until I learned how much easier it is to write things reusably. How can you possibly reuse code that isn't broken up into logical parts. It also seems to violate some component-like features for a language that is supposed to have deep object orientation.
No thanks Microsoft. I'd rather not try to write or maintain code that sounds like it will be more convaluded than MFC.
I was pleased with the progress of Konqueror in earlier releases of KDE.. I have read the stuff that Konqueror is about to support. Java is the biggest one. I haven't been able to do much with Java in Netscape as many applets cause it to hang.
Then I have to go out and kill Netscape and restart it. I just leave the Java turned off.
It is apparently going to support plugins for Netscape too!
The KDE support in other window managers is growing too so you may be able to run Konqueror reasonably without running KDE. This is necessary for basically anyone with a 14" monitor as my only two beefs with KDE are bulkiness and its usage of my desktop real estate.
I am the type of guy who bought a trackball because a mouse requires more room on my desk. So yes I am probably a little anal about all this...
Well keep up the good work KDE team! I am looking forward to the new release!
Dave
You CAN charge for a GPL'd program. The question is Who will pay for it.
The only thing you must do is distribute the source and allow users to redistribute freely. Nothing says you cannot sell the program. Its not free beer its freedom!
Freedom to have the same rights as the author.
It doesn't make much sense to sell GPL'd software because of this but it doesn't disallow it.
Dave
I don't think its him guys.... He spelled his name wrong.
Besides he wouldn't waste his time here.
OOhh I'll give you such a pinch!
Let me describe this scenario for you.
/.
The script is on a web server. Let's say script kiddie number 1 here wants to screw with linux users everywhere because he think GNOME is stupid.
Well he cracks the server and changes this easy to hack shell script. it now does a rm -rf
OOps I ran that as root. The problem is most people who are beginning linux will not think of this. Helix code's convieniently dangerous solution is exactly that. Convienient for new users to wreck their system.
If it went uncaught for an hour and there are 100 people running this in an hour then all 100 people who didn't check are now screwed. Sorry free software has no warranty. This means BE CAREFUL. This sort of thing leads to carelessness.
Dave
Trust is the key, if you don't trust the installer, then why the hell are you installing the applications they are distributing?
Exactly!!
Because it isn't a well known answer. All I ever hear is the preferred insecure method. If this were more well known perhaps I would try it. For now I am putting GNOME installation on the back burner.
Its a shame really because I really GTK over QT for licensing reasons.
Dave
I won't install it if I have to run a script on a web browser as root..
Totally insecure. Practices like that make linux no better than Outlook.
Dave
Linux will never be windows but if you want Linux to remove Microsoft from the market you must compete on their battlefield. You can't offer something new that can't steal people from the other side.
It's simple diplomacy. You can't gain support by forcing people to change. You must accomodate them.
If you want linux off the desktop then your point is valid. If you don't want to have to do Microsoft programming or development then you need to get rid of Microsoft. Simple as that.
Dave
The most sensible thing in the article by far is the minimum font size in the web browser ! All web browsers should have this. Tiny fonts suck!
Can I hear an AMEN!
Dave
I know lots of people who say it uses too many resources and that it is a dog to work with. Some of my friends have 386's and 486's and with lower speed CPU's and X you really don't need anymore bogging you down.
I tell them to use blackbox. Most of them do and they are quite happy. When they get a new machine then they can play KDE with the big boys!
Dave
See even the support for KDE is better than some other environments!!!
Dave
Where did you get this information? KDE has an integrated file manager/web browser. I have GNOME and find it ridiculously bulky for the very little it does for me.
KDE is indeed bulky and slower than a straight window manager. Both KDE and GNOME are resource hungry but you pay a price for ease of use and quite frankly I have always KDE easier to use.
GNOME is even more difficult to install. I don't know anyone who has figured out what to download to get it working and the only "easy install tool" means you have to foolishly trust an online shell script via "lynx -source" and run it as root.
No thank you! Until good instructions on what needs to be downloaded and what is extra are released I will stick with KDE.
Dave
All I can say is they are certainly addressing the issues about Unix sucking. This is some fantastic news and will help to make linux a real desktop solution.
Now if I can get KDE to turn off the upper "task bar" I may actually use it all the time.
I like KDE but it takes a lot of screen "real estate"
Dave
I wish vendors were just ignorant. I got a copy of Allegro Common Lisp that only works with RedHat as advertised. I am sure it is the particular library configuration.
Lisp is tied to deep recursion so system level code is important for good performance. I understand their choosing one distribution. I just wish they would post a doc for the correct libraries to make it work with everyone.
Anyway Maya may be in a similar situation or just picking Red Hat thinking its the most well-known name.
Dave
I agree with you and you are not replying to a high school student in this case. I have yet to see linux crash severly when I wasn't the one playing with the kernel.
While true that what is widely used is not necessarily the best, look at Windows for example, I still need to see VMS to believe it.
Eric Raymond is a respected author... I will have to look into what you say.
In fact if you can give me good information on VAX/VMS (since you go by Vaxman I assume you can) systems please follow the URL link and drop me a line at the email address on that page. I actually am interested in it and know very little about it.
Which Unix advocacy texts say this about linux...
I would like to read one of these and see if it isn't.. "Oh dear Unix is failing and linux is rising... We'd better do something." It wouldn't be the first time.
I like linux because it is fun to use and rarely lets me down. I would have to use something that I enjoy to use better in order to agree with you.
No one said linux was perfect.. (It surely isn't I am trying to fix a driver as we speak)
Now if I had to pick a project to see succeed it would probably be The GNU HURD simply because what they are working on is so cool! Microkernels may be the way of the future along with real time systems and embedded OS's.
Remember Linux is still young.. It's coming along pretty well though.
Dave
I think the reason it was moderated down to flaimbait is the reason that you have not provided any reasoning to your claims that Unix is "kludged together" VMS may very well be a better OS. Few of us have had the experience of a VMS system.
Maybe the flaimbait was a bit harsh but the response simply shows that the claims cannot be backed up with evidence.
If you want to make a claim be sure to have real evidence of it.
Linux doesn't crash early or often in my experience so I don't understand the signature line either. I would like evidence of an unstable linux system. Heresay shouldn't be considered evidence and anyone influenced by it is simply easy to convince. You cannot expect to convince people with comments like.... This sux or that works great without saying why...
Please be courteous.
Dave Leimbach