Exactly, whether the console RPGs are good are not*, is entirely different story as to the testament that the console RPGs sold very well. So if Console RPGs are lacking, it sure isn't in the financial / selling area.
* Depends if you like the open Western style, or the game-on-rails Eastern style
Character, Alt., Mule, Toon, Avatar, Alter-Ego, does it _really_ matter what we call it? At the end of the day, its _just_ a game. My wife and I call our other characters 'toons. Not sure why you get bent out shape, when there is no _official_ definition for 2nd, 3rd, etc, characters for MMORPGs. Blizzard decided to call them characters but they don't have a monopoly on the slang usage.
WoW is cartoony -- bright, and colorful palette. Which is one of the reason I like playing it, and one reason we abbrev our Alt's as 'toons. Our main guild calls them Alt's, other guilds call them 'Toons. To each their own!
-- Where is the Bowcrafting skill in WoW? So let me get this straight, I can make armor, but I can't repair it?? I miss UO...
> Regardless of how advanced ANY civilization gets, it will be limited by POLITICS and the SPEED of LIGHT
Bzzt, Thx for playing.
First all, to travel faster then light, you shift dimensions.
Secondly, not all advanced civilizations are hamstrung by politics the way our primitive civilizations are. When people internalize the Law, they don't _need_ a government to babysit for them. The movie K-Pax talks a little about this.
Thirdly, we've ALREADY had off world civilizations visit us -- the world is simply not ready to have their paradigm of Themselves, God, Life, and How They-Fit-In-The-Universe completely blown away. To paraphrase a few lines: You can't HANDLE the TRUTH! But since most people won't believe anything unless it comes from people who signed NDAs at the Never-A-Straight-Answer run by the NSA, one such proof is here
Could you imagine the mass pandemonium once they discover "man-made" artifacts on another planet?
After you've leveled up a few toons to 60, sorry 70 now, its a PITA to level up the rest of your toons. Same thing happened in D2, where it was a MAJOR PITA to level up to 99 -- Blizzard tried banning a few people, but the bots kept coming, and eventually they gave up.
If the author really wanted to keep WoWGlider going, he would of open-sourced it before got the big take down. I seriously doubt he has the money to win the legal case.
Warden: "First the good news, you're all free!" Prisoner: "What's the bad news, then?" Warden: "You'll have to live out the remainder of your life on Epsilon Eridani" Prisoner: "DOH!"
> For example, the last 20 odd years have shown that a man who is not ethically or morally encumbered can become the richest person on Earth.
With that attitude you'll never be rich! Wealth has nothing to with morals, but attitude, and application. Money is just a tool to be used.
Why is it that the poor always complain about the rich not having morals?
Get off your ass and DO something about it, instead of whining about it, like learning about "The Power of Association" and hanging around with wealthy people. The universe has anything you could want in abundance; stop falling for the lie of "artificial scarcity."
-- A house is NOT an asset, if its costing you money to own it!
> EA is a very successful company. Agreed. A very (financial) successful company, but there are MANY types of successes that corporate North America seems blind to, as you point out in your next point.
Its not an accident that everyone complains about EA's "gut & dump" strategy -- how many independent studios have they totally gutted now?
> But in terms of true originality? They've sucked for years.
Completely agree. EA's probably the biggest player to blame for sequel-itis! Milk a franchise bone dry, while screwing as many suckers ^H^H^H customers as possible.
I found it very interesting how in the beginning the _game designer_ was actually promoted with his name on the cover! We've come such a long ways downhill, where publishers don't realize its the game designer, and game dev studios that make great games, and only care about their own pathetic branding.
Maybe one of these days the industry will grow up -- and put an end to these spiraling out of control dev costs.
My alt rogue is lev 39. He already has 42g saved up. 50% of his money comes from selling the Expert Cookbook in the AH, the other half from pickpocketing while leveling / grinding. Making money in WoW is not that difficult, once one knows where to play. i.e.
Fight humanoid creatures since they drop cloth/wool/silk etc.
Fight mages since they have less health.
Fight one mob at a time, so you don't have to worry about 'adds.
Blizzard focuses on the _fundamentals_: Gameplay... everything else is just icing on the cake. Not saying their games are perfect, because they sure aren't, but what they have down in _spades_ is _fun_.
> but rather about the GAME engine. Quest system, stats system, combat mechanics, spell/resist mechanics, talent specializations, interface customization system, etc. The flexibility of their GAME engine means they can easily create compelling content.
As a game dev, their engine doesn't really stand out, to me. Half of the things you mention are game design issues -- with the engine supporting those.
- Their waypoint system sucks compared to EQ2. - Their character creation screen also stinks (you can't zoom in on the face??) Guild Wars does a much better job in this aspect. - You can't customize your stats like you could in D2. i.e. Every Level 60 Pali has the exact same base stats. Why a RPG wouldn't let you customize your character is beyond me. - Their crafting UI dialog is non-resizable; no way to sort items by skill. - Why does tailoring stick EVERY silk, mageweave, etc, item under a "Cloth" category?? - They have limited fonts unless you install the mod ClearFont - Their talent dialog is too tall in game, so you have to scroll up and down. - You can't have 2 talent builds one for PvE and one for PvP which stinks. - They usually break every mod with every patch, even when none of the Lua API has changed.
I agree that their combat system is pretty good. You can tell its an outgrowth from D2, since it had the whole +/-5 levels XP thing. They "ripped" the 3 tree talent system off from D2. They have a very good UI SDK/customization.
But on the whole, yeah, it works without issue, but that's too be expected. Wow isn't revolutionary, just evolutionary -- they streamlined a lot of the UI issues, but its still got a ways to go, before I'd consider it "great."
> then they make gold so scarce that even if you save all of it through those 40 levels AND play the markets you still wont have enough.
At first, I thought so yes. Because you buy ever talent point whether you need it or not -- because you simply don't know how useful it is, so you end up buying everything. But after you've played for a while, you know which skills to spend money on, and it's much easier to save up money. Skinning and Mining is a good way to make some money too, since its easier/faster for a high level char to pay for the item then waste his time farming for it. Sad isn't it.
It also depends on which class you play. Rogues with pickpocket can literally earn twice as much money. Hunters can make good money, since their pet does > 50% of the damage.
Gear is another factor -- the casters actually have an advantage in this, since they don't need to constantly be repairing or buying new gear, only spending their mana.
The only serious way to make money is to play the Auction House and sell that "uber" rare epic. Another way was disenchanting and selling the shards, since shards didn't have a cost to be listed in the AH (!!), so if they never sold, you didn't lose any money. Not sure if this is a bug or a feature!
Gold used to be tight, but with the expansion, its MUCH easier to acquire. Getting a group of buddies and doing instances is a nice way to raise some cash.
I have OCD and can't stand grinding -- but maybe I'm one of the exceptions. (I've noticed that since switching over to playing a rogue I'm actually finding grinding / farming to be relaxing -- but maybe that's because Palis are so damn boring to play.:-)
I definitely hear you about "zoning out" while playing the game !! There's gotta be more to gaming then being just a meat robot. I'm half tempted to write a bot because of this.:)
Slashdot Mirror
Exactly, whether the console RPGs are good are not*, is entirely different story as to the testament that the console RPGs sold very well. So if Console RPGs are lacking, it sure isn't in the financial / selling area.
* Depends if you like the open Western style, or the game-on-rails Eastern style
And we all know you tested the _boundary_ conditions. Right? Right!?
It's called a 'fencepost' bug, or 'off-by-one' bug.
:)
:)
Dam lazy programmers not using Assert() these days...
(And yes, I am one, programmer that is, not lazy
> movies will lose much of their entertainment value and their emotional appeal.
You haven't been the movies lately, have you?
> To protect this artform, there needs to be limits and rules set about what can and can't be digitally manipulated or crafted.
What gives you the right to dictate to creators how to create?
Character, Alt., Mule, Toon , Avatar, Alter-Ego, does it _really_ matter what we call it? At the end of the day, its _just_ a game. My wife and I call our other characters 'toons. Not sure why you get bent out shape, when there is no _official_ definition for 2nd, 3rd, etc, characters for MMORPGs. Blizzard decided to call them characters but they don't have a monopoly on the slang usage.
...
WoW is cartoony -- bright, and colorful palette. Which is one of the reason I like playing it, and one reason we abbrev our Alt's as 'toons. Our main guild calls them Alt's, other guilds call them 'Toons. To each their own!
--
Where is the Bowcrafting skill in WoW?
So let me get this straight, I can make armor, but I can't repair it??
I miss UO
Alt, Toon, Mule, same diff. There is no official definition of what to call your 2nd, 3rd, etc, characters -- slang is slang.
You say too-mate-o, I say to tow-mat-o. Who the fuck really cares, as long as we understand one another.
Are you really that close minded, and power hungry that you need to control how people communicate???
The first Halo had a few good levels.
* The Cartographer
* That snow map I can never remember the name of where you get to drive a tank, warthog, and ghost.
I agree -- I can't stand the sequel, not sure why people make a fuss over it; it's _just_ a shooter. It's the "Quake" killer of the new millennium.
> Regardless of how advanced ANY civilization gets, it will be limited by POLITICS and the SPEED of LIGHT
Bzzt, Thx for playing.
First all, to travel faster then light, you shift dimensions.
Secondly, not all advanced civilizations are hamstrung by politics the way our primitive civilizations are. When people internalize the Law, they don't _need_ a government to babysit for them. The movie K-Pax talks a little about this.
Thirdly, we've ALREADY had off world civilizations visit us -- the world is simply not ready to have their paradigm of Themselves, God, Life, and How They-Fit-In-The-Universe completely blown away. To paraphrase a few lines: You can't HANDLE the TRUTH! But since most people won't believe anything unless it comes from people who signed NDAs at the Never-A-Straight-Answer run by the NSA, one such proof is here
Could you imagine the mass pandemonium once they discover "man-made" artifacts on another planet?
After you've leveled up a few toons to 60, sorry 70 now, its a PITA to level up the rest of your toons. Same thing happened in D2, where it was a MAJOR PITA to level up to 99 -- Blizzard tried banning a few people, but the bots kept coming, and eventually they gave up.
If the author really wanted to keep WoWGlider going, he would of open-sourced it before got the big take down. I seriously doubt he has the money to win the legal case.
Didn't bnetd teach us anything??
I can see it now...
Warden speaking to prisoners....
Warden: "First the good news, you're all free!"
Prisoner: "What's the bad news, then?"
Warden: "You'll have to live out the remainder of your life on Epsilon Eridani"
Prisoner: "DOH!"
> It's just not in publishers best interest to let the developers become known.
Yeap, that's the _root_ of the problem! Publishers are a) afraid, and b) control freaks.
> For example, the last 20 odd years have shown that a man who is not ethically or morally encumbered can become the richest person on Earth.
With that attitude you'll never be rich! Wealth has nothing to with morals, but attitude, and application. Money is just a tool to be used.
Why is it that the poor always complain about the rich not having morals?
Get off your ass and DO something about it, instead of whining about it, like learning about "The Power of Association" and hanging around with wealthy people. The universe has anything you could want in abundance; stop falling for the lie of "artificial scarcity."
--
A house is NOT an asset, if its costing you money to own it!
Wtf difference does it make if they are 1 day shy of 18?
Morally/Ethically there is no difference.
Legally, there is.
It is up to every person to decide when and where those two intersect, and when they don't.
The point is, it's not THAT difficult to make money in WoW, like the original poster claimed.
:) Especially for the casual gamer.
Getting rep with faction is easy, if you do quests. As a bonus, you a) level up, b) make money.
Now if you want to discuss if the mount is over-priced, then I'd probably agree with you.
> EA is a very successful company.
Agreed. A very (financial) successful company, but there are MANY types of successes that corporate North America seems blind to, as you point out in your next point.
Its not an accident that everyone complains about EA's "gut & dump" strategy -- how many independent studios have they totally gutted now?
> But in terms of true originality? They've sucked for years.
Completely agree. EA's probably the biggest player to blame for sequel-itis! Milk a franchise bone dry, while screwing as many suckers ^H^H^H customers as possible.
I found it very interesting how in the beginning the _game designer_ was actually promoted with his name on the cover! We've come such a long ways downhill, where publishers don't realize its the game designer, and game dev studios that make great games, and only care about their own pathetic branding.
Maybe one of these days the industry will grow up -- and put an end to these spiraling out of control dev costs.
Ouch / Touchéé !
:)
Now _that_ was funny!
> How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
3 chords.
I miss Monkey Island...
Nice!
Unfortunately, Slashdot limits sigs to
My alt rogue is lev 39. He already has 42g saved up. 50% of his money comes from selling the Expert Cookbook in the AH, the other half from pickpocketing while leveling / grinding. Making money in WoW is not that difficult, once one knows where to play.
i.e.
Fight humanoid creatures since they drop cloth/wool/silk etc.
Fight mages since they have less health.
Fight one mob at a time, so you don't have to worry about 'adds.
That's very true!
Blizzard focuses on the _fundamentals_: Gameplay... everything else is just icing on the cake. Not saying their games are perfect, because they sure aren't, but what they have down in _spades_ is _fun_.
> I've never had that stuck mob problem, though. That must be new since the expansion, because I've never noticed before,
Uhm, NO, that bug has been in since the game launched, because I've seen it when I first started playing back then.
Similiarly, "You can't loot that right now" WHEN your the only person in your party, and you killed the mob -- has been since the game launched.
Fortunately, they don't happen much these days -- the loot bug was terrible back in Dec 2004.
> but rather about the GAME engine. Quest system, stats system, combat mechanics, spell/resist mechanics, talent specializations, interface customization system, etc. The flexibility of their GAME engine means they can easily create compelling content.
As a game dev, their engine doesn't really stand out, to me. Half of the things you mention are game design issues -- with the engine supporting those.
- Their waypoint system sucks compared to EQ2.
- Their character creation screen also stinks (you can't zoom in on the face??) Guild Wars does a much better job in this aspect.
- You can't customize your stats like you could in D2. i.e. Every Level 60 Pali has the exact same base stats. Why a RPG wouldn't let you customize your character is beyond me.
- Their crafting UI dialog is non-resizable; no way to sort items by skill.
- Why does tailoring stick EVERY silk, mageweave, etc, item under a "Cloth" category??
- They have limited fonts unless you install the mod ClearFont
- Their talent dialog is too tall in game, so you have to scroll up and down.
- You can't have 2 talent builds one for PvE and one for PvP which stinks.
- They usually break every mod with every patch, even when none of the Lua API has changed.
I agree that their combat system is pretty good. You can tell its an outgrowth from D2, since it had the whole +/-5 levels XP thing. They "ripped" the 3 tree talent system off from D2. They have a very good UI SDK/customization.
But on the whole, yeah, it works without issue, but that's too be expected. Wow isn't revolutionary, just evolutionary -- they streamlined a lot of the UI issues, but its still got a ways to go, before I'd consider it "great."
That tag is priceless.
> then they make gold so scarce that even if you save all of it through those 40 levels AND play the markets you still wont have enough.
:-)
:)
At first, I thought so yes. Because you buy ever talent point whether you need it or not -- because you simply don't know how useful it is, so you end up buying everything. But after you've played for a while, you know which skills to spend money on, and it's much easier to save up money. Skinning and Mining is a good way to make some money too, since its easier/faster for a high level char to pay for the item then waste his time farming for it. Sad isn't it.
It also depends on which class you play. Rogues with pickpocket can literally earn twice as much money. Hunters can make good money, since their pet does > 50% of the damage.
Gear is another factor -- the casters actually have an advantage in this, since they don't need to constantly be repairing or buying new gear, only spending their mana.
The only serious way to make money is to play the Auction House and sell that "uber" rare epic. Another way was disenchanting and selling the shards, since shards didn't have a cost to be listed in the AH (!!), so if they never sold, you didn't lose any money. Not sure if this is a bug or a feature!
Gold used to be tight, but with the expansion, its MUCH easier to acquire. Getting a group of buddies and doing instances is a nice way to raise some cash.
I have OCD and can't stand grinding -- but maybe I'm one of the exceptions. (I've noticed that since switching over to playing a rogue I'm actually finding grinding / farming to be relaxing -- but maybe that's because Palis are so damn boring to play.
I definitely hear you about "zoning out" while playing the game !! There's gotta be more to gaming then being just a meat robot. I'm half tempted to write a bot because of this.