All I know is I'm ganking everything I see once they put the stats in. I know they have said there would be no negative effects for having dishonor points too, so I figure I might as well rake those in one way or another.
15-20 hrs a week for normal people? Hah, that's only if normal means no family, significant other, outside work obligations, and a job that doesn't take up much time.
That was my point. If you don't play every day, and have other obligations, there is no way that it's "fast" to get to level 60. Even if you put in that much time it's going to take you a few months.
On the PvP servers, maybe. But if you are wandering around without backup on one of those, then you really are asking for a ganking anyway.
Nah, I'm on a PvP server and I run around alone all the time. There isn't as much ganking as you think. Certain zones are more prone to it (ie Strangethorne vale) while others aren't because they are less populated (Swamp of Sorrows). I think after this patch, there will be a lot more ganking. I'm not complaining, I joined a PvP server for this sort of thing.
And remember that Blizzard has implemented diminishing returns on the points you get for killing the same person over and over again.
Sure, but if you are camping a certain point of interest, why not corpse camp the guy and get the diminished points, while you wait for the next one to fall into your trap? If you are attacking 5-10 levels below you, this is the way to go.
It's going to be a lot of fun to see if the factions work together with in themselves to protect their towns, and points of interest so their lowbies can level up.
Well, those other topics belong in other threads... Besides this is not just about Blizzard and WoW's pricing... these trends are in all the other aspects of life right now. There's alot of messed up stuff going on around the world, and no one seems to care. That's my problem.
Granted, but do you file WoW costing $15 a month along with "messed up stuff?". What do you think would be the correct price point for it?
The only reason I would pay per month for a MMO is becaue they host the servers and what must be a massive database on the backend. I would never consider paying per month for a FPS.
Issue 1) seems like a hardware/network related issue that could be highly exclusive to specific configurations -
Not too specific, since they claim it's only DDR ram on ASUS mother boards, but then people say they don't have DDR ram. So is it everyone with ASUS motherboards?
Others can't fix it no matter what they do. I ran into this issue, and was lucky enough to find what seems to be a shaky fix.
Lastly, if their QA department doesn't have enough time to test things, that's a failure of their project management, not of their different schedule. Utilizing a short-term schedule with deliverables that scale down from the original schedule shouldn't result in a dramatic increase in bugginess (though it will result in some, invariably). If it does, this is something that needs to be addressed by proper allocation of time to their QA department (try not to laugh - I work in QA, I know how rarely this happens)
I don't know, all I can hope is now that they are letting the public on test servers, less gamebreaking bugs creep into production. I think if you get 30+ pages of people reporting the same error (even if it's a generic error) after you patch that wasn't there before, it's a problem.
Just because you want to act like cattle doesn't mean I can't try and talk some sense into you.
Paying $15 a month for a game that most people play for more than 15 hours a month is a rip off? What other entertainment do you pay $1 an hour for?
"MMORPGs (not just WoW) are over charging us, guess we should just bend over because we have no say in the matter..." Activism is not a bad thing.
Dude, there are bigger issues in the world than being charged $15 a month to play a game that is hosted on Blizzards servers. Hell, go try to rent a CS server for $15 a month.
I'll shut up when I see some change...
The price you pay for the boxed software is for the cost of development, the price you pay per month is for maintainence. Do you think it's cheap for that bandwidth/hardware?
Even if it's released every month, you can lvl to 60 in 2-3 weeks.
Only if you play non-stop and power level. Normal people (ie ones that put in 15-20 hours a week, and are on their first character) take about 3-4 months to get to 60.
This is a pretty big chance of pace for Blizzard. It took 90 days for their first content patch to come out - they had originally promised new content every month.
Unfortuantly they made this claim and the people who play non-stop or since beta have been trying to hold them to it. They were in such a hurry to get the last patch out, that it broke the game for a bunch of users. Check out this 17 page thread about it..
Error 132
Another bug that made it in was now after the last patch if you cast resurection on someones pet you get resurection sickness. How could they not notice that? I don't think they had much in the way of internal testing before the last patch, and that is why the test servers were made public.
I'd rather see them release content on a 3-6 month basis that works, than break some part of the game every month trying to rush stuff out.
You've GOT to look in the long term. Like 50 or 100 years.
Very true.
When we, ( I mean America, the "West" and probably Japan ) no longer make anything, or design anything, but only consume, consume consume... we will fall apart.
Half true, America won't "fall apart". What we are going to see is a larger gap between the haves and the have nots. The rich will still be rich, but the middle class will get poorer. Innovation will continue to happen on American soil as is does now, but manufacturing will be done overseas cutting out the middle class worker.
Everything we buy will be designed in China or India, and made in China or India.
I don't think it will ever get to the point where they are designing everything we buy as well.
Our universities (if they're still relevant, and haven't been shut down by the evangelical right-wing)
This is utterly silly. Nobody is trying to shut down any universities. Universities are becoming irrelvant because of lax admission standards, and credits being offered for BS courses. A college degree doesn't mean as much anymore. (With the exception of some very good schools..ie MIT). A high school diploma doesn't mean as much either, with the advent of social promotion.
will be educating Chinese or Indians in math, science, engineering, etc while we get degrees in "communications" and get jobs pushing paper around, so we can buy chinese products.
I don't think it will ever get to the point where no engineering/math/science is done over here.
Such an aritficial economy can't support itself, and we'll *probably* collapse into some sort of 3rd world police state. Here I'm referring to America -- we've been tottering on being a plice state for like 50 years,
Please back up the statement that America has been "tottering on being a police state for like 50 years". I couldn't disagree with you more, and I'd like to read why you think that.
an economic collapse would push us over the edge.
An economic collapse will lead to people looking for a more tightly controlled, government planned economy. This will come from either the democratic party, or the Paleo-con wing of the Republican party.
Meanwhile, China and India will have become what America was 40 years ago -- the Big Cheese, but *too* successful. Fat on money and industry, with those pesky (educated) workers demanding high falutin' things like medicare, wages, retirement packages, etc.
Doubtful, they both have large segments of their populations that live below standard and they both face population problems in the future. I don't think we are going to see a 'fat' China or India in the sense America is now in the next 50 - 100 years although they should be a lot better off than they are now.
That said, America will be facing population problems, and real problems with social security in the next 50-100 years.
So what happens? The chinese will move their factories to the US, Japan, England, and so on! Our starving and uneducated populations will *want* these jobs, because its better than tending the rice patties, and everything will be A-O-K.
What makes you think the Chinese won't be nationalistic about this and keep their factories in their own country?
Now, in all seriousness, as far as I'm concerned, the Chinese and Indians deserve the success they are having right now. They're educated, and hard working.
Some are, some aren't. I do like the idea that they are having some economic success now.
And we, we deserve to have our asses handed to us for our laziness and hubris.
Some of us are lazy, and some aren't. It's sad to think you think of your fellow countrymen in such a way.
I just hope all this manages to happen without too much warfare.
In theory, Democratic nation-states do not attack each other, especially when they are trade partners.
Consider the fact that here in New Jersey, a Rapist gets out in 3 years with good behavior. (They don't even call it rape here, it's 'sexual assault')
His crime was not a violent one, he shouldn't go to jail for 9 years. He should have to pay an insane fine, and be barred from going online for 10-20 years and give him 10 years probation. If he violates any of this, throw him in jail.
It's silly to throw someone in jail in a country where we already have an overcrowded jail system.
This man was simply a victim of being made an
example of. There is no doubt that he should be punished, but 9 years in jail for a crime that just annoyed victims is a bit much. I'd much rather see rapists and murders get 20-40 years and let people like this get probation and fines. It's a waste of resources to lock someone like this up.
What if you work for a government agency, or corporate entity, etc, that is engaged in all sorts of chicanery? Would you post with your real name, and be fired on the spot, or would you post anonymously so you can be a "voice from the inside"?
What if you just want to post about politics and don't want to alienate potential employeers that might google your name?
Hell, look at Blizzard's realm types [worldofwarcraft.com] page. See the image of the priest? It's alt text is "care". It's standing to the left of a bear, with the appropriate alt text of "bear". Even Blizzard thinks PvE servers are for losers.
No, the market really wants PvP. At least the people play World of Warcraft do, as the PvP servers are at least twice as full as the limited PvP servers and the RP servers put together. Go look at which servers are "high population" and which are "low population"
JavaLord, the 'uber' gear simply cannot be bought in the AH.
FileNotFound, the weapon I am currently using I have been using since level 44. Kang the Decapitator
Which item would have been more 'uber' at my level? I don't see people even from the top clans running around with that kind of gear at my level. I believe I made my money because I didn't have to sacrifice my tradeskills, greens, or blues for "the good of the guild".
I realize that some of the highest level gear, (IE the sword of hanna) isn't available unless you have raid groups. Others are, as I often see lightforge or valor armor for sale on our AH.
Good guilds do NOT have "ninja" problems because they have trust or DKP systems.
I saw one of the top guilds on our server throw a guy out because they accused him of "ninja looting" a sword that was usable for his class, and an upgrade but would have been better for someone else (ie a warrior). While I can understand guilds throwing a non casting class out who roll on cloth, or a mage rolling on plate; I constantly see stories of people getting 'blacklisted' for rolling on equipment they could use, but some other guildie could also use.
It basically comes down to playground politics, which is why I refuse to join such guilds. Even the most successful guilds on my server seem to have issues like this.
I get a lot more enjoyment out of soloing, grouping with a few friends in the rare case I need to group, and PvPing.
I do not intend to go yell "PLAY MY WAY", but I dare say that I think you're really missing out.
Or maybe you are missing out.:)
I think what is really at issue is on a basic level, people play MMO's (and games) for different reasons.
Except that all of the quest are just carbon copies of the previous quests you've done with harder monsters and better gear as rewards. I played my Warlock to 47 and a mage to about 24 before I just got bored of everything, PVP included.
I could understand getting bored of PvP with a Warlock. Dying all the time must become boring. Roll a Paladin.;)
WoW is not a bad game it's just not any better than any of the others that are out.
Agreed, sort of. I don't think it has anything special about it, it just does everything better than the others. I'm no blizzard fanboi, I played warcraft/starcraft once or twice before WoW. I wasn't even going to play WoW except a friend started...and then I was hooked. Somehow, it held my attention while EQ, and SWG never could.
Slashdot Mirror
All I know is I'm ganking everything I see once they put the stats in. I know they have said there would be no negative effects for having dishonor points too, so I figure I might as well rake those in one way or another.
Aren't chars 10 levels below gray? If so, doesn't that mean they would be dishonorable kills?
It scales as you go up in levels, I think a level 50 isn't gray to a level 60, but a level 30 would be to a level 40.
Dishonor points are only going to apply to NPC kills at first If I read the patch notes correctly.
15-20 hrs a week for normal people? Hah, that's only if normal means no family, significant other, outside work obligations, and a job that doesn't take up much time.
That was my point. If you don't play every day, and have other obligations, there is no way that it's "fast" to get to level 60. Even if you put in that much time it's going to take you a few months.
Screw that...in the future, everyone will have their own public-access TV show.
I can see it now..."Tune in at 3AM and watch me troll some obscure PHP BB in my own special mini series called "Troll that board!"
Uggg.
On the other end of the spectrum, it would be nice to get an all-tech television channel going again, like the early days of ZDTV (Tech TV)
On the PvP servers, maybe. But if you are wandering around without backup on one of those, then you really are asking for a ganking anyway.
Nah, I'm on a PvP server and I run around alone all the time. There isn't as much ganking as you think. Certain zones are more prone to it (ie Strangethorne vale) while others aren't because they are less populated (Swamp of Sorrows). I think after this patch, there will be a lot more ganking. I'm not complaining, I joined a PvP server for this sort of thing.
And remember that Blizzard has implemented diminishing returns on the points you get for killing the same person over and over again.
Sure, but if you are camping a certain point of interest, why not corpse camp the guy and get the diminished points, while you wait for the next one to fall into your trap? If you are attacking 5-10 levels below you, this is the way to go.
It's going to be a lot of fun to see if the factions work together with in themselves to protect their towns, and points of interest so their lowbies can level up.
Well, those other topics belong in other threads... Besides this is not just about Blizzard and WoW's pricing... these trends are in all the other aspects of life right now. There's alot of messed up stuff going on around the world, and no one seems to care. That's my problem.
Granted, but do you file WoW costing $15 a month along with "messed up stuff?". What do you think would be the correct price point for it?
The only reason I would pay per month for a MMO is becaue they host the servers and what must be a massive database on the backend. I would never consider paying per month for a FPS.
Issue 1) seems like a hardware/network related issue that could be highly exclusive to specific configurations -
Not too specific, since they claim it's only DDR ram on ASUS mother boards, but then people say they don't have DDR ram. So is it everyone with ASUS motherboards?
Others can't fix it no matter what they do. I ran into this issue, and was lucky enough to find what seems to be a shaky fix.
Lastly, if their QA department doesn't have enough time to test things, that's a failure of their project management, not of their different schedule. Utilizing a short-term schedule with deliverables that scale down from the original schedule shouldn't result in a dramatic increase in bugginess (though it will result in some, invariably). If it does, this is something that needs to be addressed by proper allocation of time to their QA department (try not to laugh - I work in QA, I know how rarely this happens)
I don't know, all I can hope is now that they are letting the public on test servers, less gamebreaking bugs creep into production. I think if you get 30+ pages of people reporting the same error (even if it's a generic error) after you patch that wasn't there before, it's a problem.
Just because you want to act like cattle doesn't mean I can't try and talk some sense into you.
Paying $15 a month for a game that most people play for more than 15 hours a month is a rip off? What other entertainment do you pay $1 an hour for?
"MMORPGs (not just WoW) are over charging us, guess we should just bend over because we have no say in the matter..." Activism is not a bad thing.
Dude, there are bigger issues in the world than being charged $15 a month to play a game that is hosted on Blizzards servers. Hell, go try to rent a CS server for $15 a month.
I'll shut up when I see some change...
The price you pay for the boxed software is for the cost of development, the price you pay per month is for maintainence. Do you think it's cheap for that bandwidth/hardware?
This is going to be great, this patch will turn PvP servers into roaming gank sqauds looking for players to wreck to increase their honor points.
I expect it will take about 48 hours from the start of the patch for every instance to be camped and the entrances to every contested zone.
Even if it's released every month, you can lvl to 60 in 2-3 weeks.
Only if you play non-stop and power level. Normal people (ie ones that put in 15-20 hours a week, and are on their first character) take about 3-4 months to get to 60.
This is a pretty big chance of pace for Blizzard. It took 90 days for their first content patch to come out - they had originally promised new content every month.
Unfortuantly they made this claim and the people who play non-stop or since beta have been trying to hold them to it. They were in such a hurry to get the last patch out, that it broke the game for a bunch of users. Check out this 17 page thread about it.. Error 132
Here is another one if you are really interested.
Another bug that made it in was now after the last patch if you cast resurection on someones pet you get resurection sickness. How could they not notice that? I don't think they had much in the way of internal testing before the last patch, and that is why the test servers were made public.
I'd rather see them release content on a 3-6 month basis that works, than break some part of the game every month trying to rush stuff out.
Since the sabertooth is extinct, like mac's market share.
Now, I understand that we're going to see some misguided anti-Globalisation backlash on this site.
Of course, because if someone sees things differently than you do, they must be 'misguided'.
You've GOT to look in the long term. Like 50 or 100 years.
Very true.
When we, ( I mean America, the "West" and probably Japan ) no longer make anything, or design anything, but only consume, consume consume... we will fall apart.
Half true, America won't "fall apart". What we are going to see is a larger gap between the haves and the have nots. The rich will still be rich, but the middle class will get poorer. Innovation will continue to happen on American soil as is does now, but manufacturing will be done overseas cutting out the middle class worker.
Everything we buy will be designed in China or India, and made in China or India.
I don't think it will ever get to the point where they are designing everything we buy as well.
Our universities (if they're still relevant, and haven't been shut down by the evangelical right-wing)
This is utterly silly. Nobody is trying to shut down any universities. Universities are becoming irrelvant because of lax admission standards, and credits being offered for BS courses. A college degree doesn't mean as much anymore. (With the exception of some very good schools..ie MIT). A high school diploma doesn't mean as much either, with the advent of social promotion.
will be educating Chinese or Indians in math, science, engineering, etc while we get degrees in "communications" and get jobs pushing paper around, so we can buy chinese products.
I don't think it will ever get to the point where no engineering/math/science is done over here.
Such an aritficial economy can't support itself, and we'll *probably* collapse into some sort of 3rd world police state. Here I'm referring to America -- we've been tottering on being a plice state for like 50 years,
Please back up the statement that America has been "tottering on being a police state for like 50 years". I couldn't disagree with you more, and I'd like to read why you think that.
an economic collapse would push us over the edge.
An economic collapse will lead to people looking for a more tightly controlled, government planned economy. This will come from either the democratic party, or the Paleo-con wing of the Republican party.
Meanwhile, China and India will have become what America was 40 years ago -- the Big Cheese, but *too* successful. Fat on money and industry, with those pesky (educated) workers demanding high falutin' things like medicare, wages, retirement packages, etc.
Doubtful, they both have large segments of their populations that live below standard and they both face population problems in the future. I don't think we are going to see a 'fat' China or India in the sense America is now in the next 50 - 100 years although they should be a lot better off than they are now.
That said, America will be facing population problems, and real problems with social security in the next 50-100 years.
So what happens? The chinese will move their factories to the US, Japan, England, and so on! Our starving and uneducated populations will *want* these jobs, because its better than tending the rice patties, and everything will be A-O-K.
What makes you think the Chinese won't be nationalistic about this and keep their factories in their own country?
Now, in all seriousness, as far as I'm concerned, the Chinese and Indians deserve the success they are having right now. They're educated, and hard working.
Some are, some aren't. I do like the idea that they are having some economic success now.
And we, we deserve to have our asses handed to us for our laziness and hubris.
Some of us are lazy, and some aren't. It's sad to think you think of your fellow countrymen in such a way.
I just hope all this manages to happen without too much warfare.
In theory, Democratic nation-states do not attack each other, especially when they are trade partners.
Anytime you want to find the truth on slashdot, just look for the comments modded 'flamebait'
Any marginally competent lawyer should be able to get him at least six figures from both the store, and the municipality where this occurred.
Hopefully they will give them those six figures in 2 dollar bills.
9 years too long? i don't think so
Consider the fact that here in New Jersey, a Rapist gets out in 3 years with good behavior. (They don't even call it rape here, it's 'sexual assault')
His crime was not a violent one, he shouldn't go to jail for 9 years. He should have to pay an insane fine, and be barred from going online for 10-20 years and give him 10 years probation. If he violates any of this, throw him in jail.
It's silly to throw someone in jail in a country where we already have an overcrowded jail system.
This man was simply a victim of being made an example of. There is no doubt that he should be punished, but 9 years in jail for a crime that just annoyed victims is a bit much. I'd much rather see rapists and murders get 20-40 years and let people like this get probation and fines. It's a waste of resources to lock someone like this up.
I disagree. It would have to be Democrats.
Very true, it's amazing they are around at all with their strong held beliefs in killing handicapped people and unborn children.
I'm sure if we put them on an island somewhere they would be extinct in 100 years.
What if you work for a government agency, or corporate entity, etc, that is engaged in all sorts of chicanery? Would you post with your real name, and be fired on the spot, or would you post anonymously so you can be a "voice from the inside"?
What if you just want to post about politics and don't want to alienate potential employeers that might google your name?
There is 1 high population PvE server (well, limited pvp)
There are 15 high population PvP servers.
You can try to spin it however you want, there are more PvP players than CareBears. Sorry huggy bear.
So what is it, are you full of shit, or just ignorant?
Hell, look at Blizzard's realm types [worldofwarcraft.com] page. See the image of the priest? It's alt text is "care". It's standing to the left of a bear, with the appropriate alt text of "bear". Even Blizzard thinks PvE servers are for losers.
That is priceless.
Why do they have Paladins in the game and no cross as a guild Icon?
No, the market really wants PvP. At least the people play World of Warcraft do, as the PvP servers are at least twice as full as the limited PvP servers and the RP servers put together. Go look at which servers are "high population" and which are "low population"
JavaLord, the 'uber' gear simply cannot be bought in the AH.
:)
FileNotFound, the weapon I am currently using I have been using since level 44. Kang the Decapitator
Which item would have been more 'uber' at my level? I don't see people even from the top clans running around with that kind of gear at my level. I believe I made my money because I didn't have to sacrifice my tradeskills, greens, or blues for "the good of the guild".
I realize that some of the highest level gear, (IE the sword of hanna) isn't available unless you have raid groups. Others are, as I often see lightforge or valor armor for sale on our AH.
Good guilds do NOT have "ninja" problems because they have trust or DKP systems.
I saw one of the top guilds on our server throw a guy out because they accused him of "ninja looting" a sword that was usable for his class, and an upgrade but would have been better for someone else (ie a warrior). While I can understand guilds throwing a non casting class out who roll on cloth, or a mage rolling on plate; I constantly see stories of people getting 'blacklisted' for rolling on equipment they could use, but some other guildie could also use.
It basically comes down to playground politics, which is why I refuse to join such guilds. Even the most successful guilds on my server seem to have issues like this.
I get a lot more enjoyment out of soloing, grouping with a few friends in the rare case I need to group, and PvPing.
I do not intend to go yell "PLAY MY WAY", but I dare say that I think you're really missing out.
Or maybe you are missing out.
I think what is really at issue is on a basic level, people play MMO's (and games) for different reasons.
You play games to make friends with other players
I play games to kick asses.
Except that all of the quest are just carbon copies of the previous quests you've done with harder monsters and better gear as rewards. I played my Warlock to 47 and a mage to about 24 before I just got bored of everything, PVP included.
;)
I could understand getting bored of PvP with a Warlock. Dying all the time must become boring. Roll a Paladin.
WoW is not a bad game it's just not any better than any of the others that are out.
Agreed, sort of. I don't think it has anything special about it, it just does everything better than the others. I'm no blizzard fanboi, I played warcraft/starcraft once or twice before WoW. I wasn't even going to play WoW except a friend started...and then I was hooked. Somehow, it held my attention while EQ, and SWG never could.