Wonderful! It's great to see folks still carrying the torch. I would probably do so as well but my interests have moved onto guitar (from all things computer) and specifically, the blues. I always preferred OS/2 until it just became impractical as the businesses I supported that were initially on DOS moved to windows so I went where the market was. Still held out though in my programming language of choice. For internal business apps I still used Delphi up until last year when I retired. I actually had a recruiter contact me last week about a Delphi position so it's still in use, though it has a very very small market share.
Anyway, you may have been a latecomer but you're keeping this stuff alive. Good on you! Besides, you never know, given all the stuff that governments and corporations are doing to the internet these days. We may end up back to "the good old days" again at some point.
BBSing is definitely a niche hobby these days but it's still alive in its own unique way. It seems that there seems to be more nostalgia now for the "old ways" of BBSing even though a majority of boards are available via telnet. There are a lot of Linux and BSD-based BBSes around now that can support rlogin and SSH too, not just telnet. Interesting you talk about Delphi as I still write DOS-based BBS doors using Turbo Pascal (I also use Virtual Pascal for my sysop utilities). I've dabbled a bit in Delphi being an amateur programmer but haven't done much programming except for within the BBS realm. I do use a bit of REXX too for the BBS. As for OS/2, well, it's always worked for me. I've never had a reason to switch. In fact, I used to offer my BBS users IRC, FTP (out), telnet (out), and a few other Internet-based utility programs under DOS via an OS/2-based door and a program called HSTART (allows DOS programs to start OS/2 programs in the shell). But mainly, what I use just works and I enjoy still running a BBS. Having internet capability is a good thing though.
I've been told by other sysops who have noticed a surge in callers on their BBS that because of people's fears of more government snooping on the internet that people are calling up their POTS-capable boards. While I can't exactly say that I know that fear to be true, I can appreciate people wanting to do something a bit retro these days. I don't get a lot of callers on my BBS as I'm "strict" by today's standards since I ask for a new caller's personal information if they apply for an account (but I have guest access if people want to look around) but it's nice to see that there's still interest in BBSing.
I've been enjoying my ham radio hobby a lot more these days as a stress-breaker for being a full-time college student then working on my computers or BBS. I mainly work on the BBS on my "weekends" or when I'm told the BBS needs to be looked at. Generally the BBS only breaks down when I start fiddling with things I shouldn't really mess with since I know they already work . ..
A lot of "common internet practices" of today owe their existance to BBSes, I've been told. I guess that could be true in many ways. But for me, while I enjoy the internet and the Web, the comradarie and community of a local BBS is something I miss a lot. You know, the user meetings, the sysop knowing everyone's birthdays, or even seeing the sysop in a local grocery store and saying hello. That, sadly, is something I don't think is going to come back any time soon.
As for being retired, a close friend's father who recently retired remarked to me lately that he seems to be even busier now that he's retired yet isn't getting paid half of what his work is worth. <G>
I think my first "taste" of the Internet was in 1987 through a friend who was a graduate student at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
While the Internet was nice, I loved using BBSes much, much more.
In fact, I'm still running a free BBS. I'm using ProBoard v2.17 under OS/2 Warp 4.52. My board's now available via telnet and my BBS's website (yep, don't need a terminal program to connect). I'm a member of FidoNet and I run my own FTN-style network (have since 2000). I think I've been running my BBS since 1996 and yeah, I was a latecomer to the BBS scene.
BBSes are still alive and well. You can find a very up-to-date BBS list at http://www.telnetbbsguide.com/ or, if you are a Synchronet BBS fan, http://www.synchro.net/bbslist.html.
I don't get a lot of callers, to be honest, but my board has daily activity. I'm a full-time college student at the age of 39 and while I can't be on the BBS as much as I want to be, I enjoy still running a BBS.
Honestly folks, does anyone really give a damn about Windows 98 any more?
A lot more than you realize.
If you need support and have 98, upgrade to 2000. It's that simple!
Why are you suggesting another dead product for replacing a dead OS (by its creator)? Yes, MS is still "supporting" W2K until 2010, but if you ask any questions about it, the last word is "upgrade to XP or Server 2003!" If you call MS to get support, they are actually very reluctant to do so and are normally very curt about it, as if you're wasting their time.
I don't know how you'd define it, but I wouldn't call that "support" at all.
However, what to do with all those businesses (especially low-profit government entities such as schools) with older machines, win98 licenses, and not a lot of money to spend on either hardware or operating systems? To me, it looks this is just another push for those entities towards a linux desktop, not based on any technical details, but due to just plain ol' dollars and cents.
You neglected to mention that it will cost these entities money to learn Linux, as well as teach their clients, et al., to learn it. As someone who supports the above entities pro bono, I can tell you that many of them have zero money to do anything. Their mantra: "if it works, why fix it?" Many Slashdotters forget that not everyone has the technical grasp to use Linux, even if there is a nice GUI helping out. If it's all DOS stuff they're using, I am not going to spend my time trying to slap up DOSbox or DOSemu when what they have is working just fine.
Also, schools may not be allowed to use Linux. I know of several school districts where it's mandated that all computers will run Windows (any version), but nothing else. If it does, it has to be approved through the school district. That can be hellish on anyone, especially when the school board knows little or nothing about Linux save for "it's a hacker's operating system". I've been through that before and quite frankly, they don't care. They want dollars and cents proof that moving to Linux, from what they already have, would be worth it. Sadly enough, most times, the answer is "no" to Linux. I haven't seen any school districts where I've lived adopt Linux. I've seen 'em adopt Macs and XP, but not Linux.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Let whatever solution they've been using for years work. I know plenty of people who are still under DOS, multitasking, surfing the Web, doing email, everything they want with nary a problem.
It's the industry to blame for this constant upgrading for people who don't need it. It's the push to sell, sell, sell, money, money, money. Knowledge is true power and when you reveal to people that they don't need to use the latest thing to do what they need to do, it really can open eyes and make minds easier. Yes, I agree, running any operating system on today's Internet without a firewall is crazy.
I'm assuming that most of you out there haven't heard of a website called Old Version (http://www.oldversion.com/). They have a lot of great free software, normally older versions of Windows stuff. They have some good firewalls on there, such as Tiny Personal Firewall, ZoneAlarm and Sygate Personal Firewall. If the person can't afford a hardware firewall, a software firewall is still a good option. I use Tiny Personal Firewall on my laptop and Winamp 2.95 for myself.
In our eternal quest for cooler and newer and neater, we're burning dollars like crazy throwing our perfectly working machines and software. When will we learn...
Hear, hear. The machine I use everyday is over six years old now. My BBS machine is well over eight years old and my laptop is about seven years old. All work just fine and do exactly what I need. As in another thread I posted in, I'll state that people are swept up in "featuritis" - the need to have the latest and greatest, even if you don't need it.
I also see that most people can't see that there's other operating systems beyond Linux, Windows and the occasional Mac reference. I have OS/2 Warp 4.52, which has the AIX OS firewall built in, and it is about seven years old. I run it barefoot, with the firewall up, with no problems. I have for about five years now.
I refuse to buy a new computer unless I see an absolute compelling need for it. My wife bought herself a new 64-bit Athelon-powered system (we call it the "Belchfire 4000"), but she plays a lot of games and does a lot of heavy graphic-based websurfing (reading blogs, digital photography, et al.). I'm glad she bought herself a new machine...that's how I got the one I'm on!
Any OS can/is insecure unless you take steps to harden it. Even people's beloved *nix can have as many holes as a strainer if you don't lock everything up. Common sense isn't so common these days.
Newer is not necessarily better. The problem is that most people these days have no clue that older can work just fine.
Exactly so. And worse, the less a person knows about the Magic Box, the more they fear being "left behind". Sometimes it doesn't even help to demonstrate how their favourite guru (myself:) uses a great deal of older hardware and software, with optimal results.
Yep. It seems we (as in our mindset) are becoming rarer and rarer. Richard Steiner (who has replied to me on this thread) is a good friend and like us, a true tinkerer. He uses a little of everything to get things done. A lot of my customers cannot fathom why I am using older stuff (the computer I'm on right now is a Dell Dimension 8100 circa 2001). I tell them if it works, keep it. The typical mindset (as in the title) has somehow brainwashed the majority of people into thinking that they have to have the latest and greatest, at any cost.
On the other end, likewise I see no reason to coerce upgrades if the user is comfortable with an old setup -- in fact, the main result of talking 'em into upgrades is that they become so *uncomfortable* with their updated system, that now they get far LESS use from it than before. How is that beneficial to the person who OWNS the system??! our job is making the PC usable by its owner, not forcing it to fit some ideological ideal.
I agree. I feel I can make more money being truthful about my customer's particular situation than to lie and say they need to upgrade, need this, need that...even though I know too well they don't. My customers trust me because of my experience and judgement and I'm not going to let anything flawed such as "keeping up with the Joneses" ruin my relationship with my customers and friends (a lot of them are personal friends).
BTW contrary to popular belief, WinME can be made 100% stable -- turn off Restore, apply 98Lite in default mode, and (barring bogus drivers or shit hardware) it'll never crash again. Knowing that, why try to force a user to upgrade, when I can so-simply make their existing setup well-behaved?
I've got three legal licenses to Windows ME. I don't use it, but that's nice to know in case I do. [G]
And... M$ Works from 2001? that's mighty newfangled if you ask me:) I still use WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS in Everyday Life; it's now 15 years old and it still works as fine as ever. (Mainly it's my editor for BBS messaging... your sig is an ancient BBS tagline!)
I bought a fully legal copy of WP 5.1/DOS, with the actual paper license certificate, for $5. It sits there on my shelf, unused. I bought it because I couldn't stand to see it sit in the thrift store. So instead, it sits on my shelf, heh. As for the BBS tagline, I run a BBS myself (although it's being shut down for an extended period soon). I have a lot of BBS taglines here somewhere..
Average Users are more often frustrated and confused by upgrades than helped by them, but they've been taught to fear being "left behind" even when what they've got not only still works fine, but works better than the update. And they don't understand that "dropped support" doesn't mean "stops working at all".
Hear, hear. A lot of my customers (friends, family, et al.) feel that if they don't have the latest and greatest from Microsoft, they will somehow be left behind, just like you said. It takes a lot of prodding and reassurance from me to tell them that they don't have to have everything, save for security patches, to do what's needed. I mean, c'mon, I use an old version of Microsoft Works that I received with a new computer purchase from HP in 2001, still - even for my business. Why am I going to shell out hundreds, or even thousands, for something I don't need?
In that same vein, if Windows 9x/ME works for someone and they like it, I don't think it's morally or ethically right to push an upgrade if they don't need it. In my view, the Firefox development team is doing just that by forcing people to quit using their current setup just to use a new version of FF with extra features they don't need.
Yeah, best to stick to supporting those new and insecure OSs instead.
A quick note on that: I've hardened my W2K box and I've never had a problem with hacking, trojans, viruses or what-have-you. If people who run Windows (we're talking about the majority outside of the IT industry and geeks) would just take the time and use common sense, their systems would be much more safe. I'm not standing up for MS or anything here, just saying that common sense would prevent a lot of people from having problems.
Of course, having the OS written right from the ground up would make the most sense, but since that hasn't occured yet, people need to take matters into their own hands.
Nearly all of my customers that I educate about Windows, its security holes and how to use plain ol' common sense when dealing with Windows' problems rarely call me back again for Windows-related security issues. Most of the time it's for data recovery, hardware upgrades or software training (a la Office).
Since you're the one doing their repair, have you considered installing Linux/BSD OS for them? that's what i do when people with old machines demand good software. They don't even need to worry about games since those machines don't have the necessary horsepower to play them.
Unfortunately, in the instances that I've suggested it, I've not only gotten dumb looks and stares, but I've actually lost a customer over it. Stupid I know, but still. A majority of the people actually don't have many problems WRT viruses, spam, et al. Most of the time, I'm over to do upgrades (such as memory, a new hard drive). A few of my customers have refused, saying Linux is "not worth their time" (reasoning: "If it's free, how can it be any good?" - an actual quote).
But, in the same breath, if it wasn't for Windows, I wouldn't get half the business that I do [evin grin].
Windows XP still runs DOS programs. How often do you use that?
Man, you asked the WRONG person. [bg] I write BBS doors in DOS! I use it all the time. In fact, OMG, I even use OS/2! Isn't that scary?
As a programmer I understand why the developers of Firefox are doing this. Win 95, 98, and Me are actually pretty different from NT, 2000, and XP. They use a different code base and have a lot of different APIs.
Yes, I do understand this. I do some Windows programming also and I understand the difference in APIs, et al.
At the company I work at we have just also ended support for the 95-Me code base. It was getting too hard to support both the new OS and those old and insecure OSs.
ME was terrible - I'll grant you that - but there's still a lot of people using 95/98 that I know (my BBSing hobby nonwithstanding).
My point is this: FF is getting a bit bloated for me. Too many goodies, too much cruft. No one really needs all of the goodies...or maybe I'm just one who likes my programs to load in under 20 seconds.
I find it absolutely hilarious that you found a way to bash Microsoft in your subject line.
Just because I use MS products doesn't mean I have to necessarily like the company. I don't like having to support major oil companies when I drive, but I do because I have to drive where I'm at.
But if I can make a little statement when I can, it makes me feel better.
It seems to me that the developers of Firefox have fallen down the same pothole-filled path that Microsoft has - forget about your past, focus only on the future. As an guy who does quite a bit of home-based computer repair, I see a lot of people who are NOT using Windows XP and are using older versions of Windows (pre-2000 - I use W2K myself). What's happening to Firefox is that it's getting splintered apart slowly. I wouldn't be suprised to have four or five distinct versions of FF in the next few years (note I'm not saying ports, but distinct versions).
Firefox is already much slower-loading that it used to be a few years ago, loaded with a lot of things that probably aren't really necessary. Not all of us require the latest and greatest thing to do what we need to do and I feel that the developers of FF have lost touch of that, being driven by feature creep and "keeping up with the neighbors" mentality.
XPSP2 install, and it gives me direct (no WGA crap) links to download these updates.
That's awful funny, I'm running W2K SP4 and when I tried to install MBSA, it insisted on wanting installing that "Genuine Advantage" crap first. I have a legit copy of W2K, but I sure the heck am not going to rob Peter to pay Paul with my machine. Thankfully, I never have any of that "genuine" crap popping up when I use Windows Update. Then again, I learned long ago to stay far far away from XP. Just my observations.
... in these losers' supreme quest for the ultimate geek, they missed Geraldo and Jerry Springer. Now that's fighting - eyes getting poked out, blood everywhere, people screeching...
Wait, that's just my recollection of the last office party. Sorry about that.
RBLs are a waste of time, they give immense power to a few individuals and groups, more often with an axe to grind. Do you really want to do that? Rhetorical question, you don't.
Hear, hear! You're absolutely right. What gives these few individuals the right to decide where my email goes to based on their so-called "blacklists"? The key word is "individual" - each person should control their own "blacklist", not have one gigantic problem.
This is akin to the sad state of our public education system - leave the education of children in the hands of a few and look what happens.
Don't blame SpamCop for the situation that results in your IP address being reported to them. No one is forced to used SpamCop's blacklists. They choose to use them because they believe they are useful in reducing spam.
You're right. SpamCop is generally lazy about removing people's IP addresses. I've actually used them before to pull a nasty trick (getting someone's entire static IP block listed as spam) and you know what? They did it happily, without asking.
If you're a moron and think SpamCop is worth something, then you get what you deserve. I don't run any spam filters or anything else for my business and I won't. Why?
A program can never take the place of a human's good discretion, period. Say all you want, but it won't happen. I've tried spam filters and they don't work very well - in fact, I even wrote my own to try it out and generally, it's a turkey shoot. If you're naieve enough to think that - and judging by how many people use SpamCop, there's a lot - you get what you deserve.
SpamCop was blocking my static IP. Why? Because the person before me had problems. I asked them to remove it and they gave me enough crap to fill a big septic tank. They never did, either. Thankfully I moved, got another ISP and all is well here.
If someone doesn't receive my message because their server sits here and cries and relies on a very inaccurate blacklist, then that's their problem, NOT MINE. It's funny how people are too damn lazy to just hit the Delete key or to make sure their systems don't become some spambot master's toy.
If you think that SpamCop helps stop spam, you probably think that people don't kill people, guns do. Relying on antispam programs is an intelligence crutch.
Torrent sites track torrents and provide a means of exchanging copyrighted materials. It's pretty cut and dry.
You said it right there, bud: the only damn reason RIAA is doing this now is because it can be TRACED. By God, you don't see them going down on people copying CDs, do you? When is the last time you heard anyone get busted for having a hot CD? Because it's tracable, they're doing it.
There's a lot of other fun ways to trade stuff that are pretty untraceable (not that I know this from personal experience, mind you). It's an old-school thing, I'd gather. It's like the saying "It used to be smart people using dumb computers. Now it's dumb people using smart computers."
I read a story recenty that said something akin to half or more of the Internet traffic currently is from torrent transfers. If you use a torrent, you're just ASKING to be nailed to the wall and hung out to dry. I chuckle reading these "they shouldn't be spying on torrents" comments. It's built into the very backbone of the technology. From what I understand, it's pretty easy to hack too.
That's why you'll never, ever, EVER catch me using a torrent. Baaad idea. Traceable? Not for me, thankyouverymuch.
Why don't you ask John Carmack sometime if it's okay that people download Doom 3 without paying him for the years of work he put into it? Carmack's a Slashdot hero around here...would be interesting to see people's reactions to his response.
I'm glad you said what this guy did because *gasp* I didn't know who the hell he was until you said something.
Contrast that with some items on the list that were complete disasters from the moment they were launched: IBM PC Jr., CueCat, Microsoft Bob... THOSE belong on the list. The list probably should have included some other items that had lofty ambitions but just never "took" (like OS/2). But, like I said, some of the ones on the list, I feel, aren't getting their due. We look at them now and see how worthless they are by today's standards (you can probably get any of these items on eBay for $5, now), but that ignores the impact they had when they were first released.
OS/2 never "took" because IBM let Microsoft walk all over them. OS/2 is still heavily used, but not in the US because of Microsoft's wonderful grip. Heck, OS/2 is still even being developed as eComStation and has some very nice features that Windows still doesn't have. Just because it's disappeared off the market, like DOS, doesn't mean it's worthless.
I still have three Zip drives - a parallel port Zip 100 on my BBS machine (running OS/2), a internal Zip 250 ATAPI on this machine and an external USB Zip 100 on my wife's machine. I have never, in over six years, had a problem with any of these drives. I found in my observations that if you didn't jam the damn disk into the drive, your chances of getting the "click of death" were little or none.
My drives are still going strong, some with disks that are 1998 vintage.
I have a CueCat here that was modified to be a nice handheld scanner. The "paperstrip" technology that CueCat used is still be used by the US Armed Forces on every single ID card they produce (on the back).
Some things from our past should be forgotten (such as Microsoft Bob, ugh), but there were lessons to be learned and still to learn from those products.
Symantec has putting out terrible products for years now. In addition to totally devastating the products it buys, it also makes them nearly impossible to remove. I have had to forcefully remove Norton products from many of my clients' systems by using the "forced removal" tools that Symantec provides. Now, I don't know if it's just me, but isn't that a bad sign when a company provides tools (even though the tools are buried in their corporate site) to remove their own products because the product's own uninstall routines fail miserably so often?
I normally recommend something along the lines of AVG or Avast! to customers after that little experience. People normally learn after their wallet gets hit a few good times for computer repair.
Ah, yes, the public miseducation system in action. The government feels it should control your every action, whether or not you're actually in their clutches at the time of the "misdeed". I have yet to have anyone explain to me to my satisfaction where in the Constitution that it is explicitly said that the government is responsible for education.
All the student did was say that he was being bullied and they're going to expel him - well, looks like someone's covering something up. Typical government reaction.
Public school - the best our nation can offer.
I hope this kid and his parents sue the pants off the school district and name names. I bet the NEA is gonna go beserk about this one.
As a licensed amateur radio operator myself (my callsign is KD5COL - I've been licensed since 1997), I can honestly say that amateur radio still has its place in this world. Besides what people think of hams (i.e. ragchewing, emergency communications), not all hams are geeks. My wife just recently became a ham herself and both of my parents (both near their sixties) are, as well as my biological father. Amateur radio presents unique opportunities that computers alone cannot offer.
It's the fascination of learning and enjoying something you built yourself... it's the camradarie of your friends and people you've never met sharing a similar hobby... it's the uniqueness of having a call sign that identifies you amongst everyone else in the world... it's the knowledge that your hobby is also a public service.
Something else very cool also. In the state of Tennessee where I live, amateur radio operators have the privildge of obtaining emergency license plates for their automobiles. This allows the ham to be on the same level as police, fire, EMS, et al. You work with public officials in times of emergency to provide communications where nothing else is possible.
I enjoy the public service aspect of the hobby - I am frequently at public events providing communications for race officials, EMT, et cetera. People are always asking me questions, looking at my car's setup, checking out my HT (handie-talkie) and they seem to be genuinely interested.
Unfortunately, many of you don't have enough exposure to amateur radio to understand its usefulness and how we hams have advanced technology by experimentation.
A very good site to look at is http://www.hello-world.org/ Hello World - it explains a lot about amateur radio and how it's used.
As for the original author: get your license and enjoy it. Maybe we'll meet on 20 meters sometime!
When I was in high school, I was taught Pascal using a TRS-80 Model III. We had to design the program entirely on paper: first in a flowchart, then using pseudo-code and everyone's ideas were discussed in class. Then and only then were we unleashed to write code on the computer. Most of us preferred NOT to use the IDE (I can't even remember what Pascal compiler we used!), because it was simply faster to go in and type up our program, run the compiler, debug and rerun the compiler.
These days, I still use Pascal, but I do so in an IDE environment because there's more tools to help me out (such as a debugger, breakpoints, et al).
I personally suggest making your students learn programming on paper first, then having them learn the compiler. Perhaps in the final week(s) of your course, you could show the IDE to them and explain what it is.
I'm no professional programmer by any means, but those skills I learned have helped me in other areas in my life also.
It's not the OS's fault, nor is it the IM program's fault. It's the fault of ignorant computer users, no matter what OS they use, doing stupid things that they know they shouldn't be doing, even when they're told constantly.
Thankfully, their ignorance means more money and work for me in my business to fix their problems that they brought on themselves.
If they're stupid enough to open something from a program that they know could be bad, then they do deserve whatever they get.
It used to be smart people using dumb computers - now it's dumb people using smart computers.
Nixon ordered G. Gordon Liddy and E. Howard Hunt to break in to Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office, hoping to find information with which to publicly smear Ellsberg.
GE: We bring good things to light!
(Sorry, I had to say it - I read that post and for some reason, that popped into my mind...)
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Wonderful! It's great to see folks still carrying the torch. I would probably do so as well but my interests have moved onto guitar (from all things computer) and specifically, the blues. I always preferred OS/2 until it just became impractical as the businesses I supported that were initially on DOS moved to windows so I went where the market was. Still held out though in my programming language of choice. For internal business apps I still used Delphi up until last year when I retired. I actually had a recruiter contact me last week about a Delphi position so it's still in use, though it has a very very small market share.
Anyway, you may have been a latecomer but you're keeping this stuff alive. Good on you! Besides, you never know, given all the stuff that governments and corporations are doing to the internet these days. We may end up back to "the good old days" again at some point.
BBSing is definitely a niche hobby these days but it's still alive in its own unique way. It seems that there seems to be more nostalgia now for the "old ways" of BBSing even though a majority of boards are available via telnet. There are a lot of Linux and BSD-based BBSes around now that can support rlogin and SSH too, not just telnet. Interesting you talk about Delphi as I still write DOS-based BBS doors using Turbo Pascal (I also use Virtual Pascal for my sysop utilities). I've dabbled a bit in Delphi being an amateur programmer but haven't done much programming except for within the BBS realm. I do use a bit of REXX too for the BBS. As for OS/2, well, it's always worked for me. I've never had a reason to switch. In fact, I used to offer my BBS users IRC, FTP (out), telnet (out), and a few other Internet-based utility programs under DOS via an OS/2-based door and a program called HSTART (allows DOS programs to start OS/2 programs in the shell). But mainly, what I use just works and I enjoy still running a BBS. Having internet capability is a good thing though.
I've been told by other sysops who have noticed a surge in callers on their BBS that because of people's fears of more government snooping on the internet that people are calling up their POTS-capable boards. While I can't exactly say that I know that fear to be true, I can appreciate people wanting to do something a bit retro these days. I don't get a lot of callers on my BBS as I'm "strict" by today's standards since I ask for a new caller's personal information if they apply for an account (but I have guest access if people want to look around) but it's nice to see that there's still interest in BBSing.
I've been enjoying my ham radio hobby a lot more these days as a stress-breaker for being a full-time college student then working on my computers or BBS. I mainly work on the BBS on my "weekends" or when I'm told the BBS needs to be looked at. Generally the BBS only breaks down when I start fiddling with things I shouldn't really mess with since I know they already work . . .
A lot of "common internet practices" of today owe their existance to BBSes, I've been told. I guess that could be true in many ways. But for me, while I enjoy the internet and the Web, the comradarie and community of a local BBS is something I miss a lot. You know, the user meetings, the sysop knowing everyone's birthdays, or even seeing the sysop in a local grocery store and saying hello. That, sadly, is something I don't think is going to come back any time soon.
As for being retired, a close friend's father who recently retired remarked to me lately that he seems to be even busier now that he's retired yet isn't getting paid half of what his work is worth. <G>
I think my first "taste" of the Internet was in 1987 through a friend who was a graduate student at the University of Arizona in Tucson. While the Internet was nice, I loved using BBSes much, much more. In fact, I'm still running a free BBS. I'm using ProBoard v2.17 under OS/2 Warp 4.52. My board's now available via telnet and my BBS's website (yep, don't need a terminal program to connect). I'm a member of FidoNet and I run my own FTN-style network (have since 2000). I think I've been running my BBS since 1996 and yeah, I was a latecomer to the BBS scene. BBSes are still alive and well. You can find a very up-to-date BBS list at http://www.telnetbbsguide.com/ or, if you are a Synchronet BBS fan, http://www.synchro.net/bbslist.html. I don't get a lot of callers, to be honest, but my board has daily activity. I'm a full-time college student at the age of 39 and while I can't be on the BBS as much as I want to be, I enjoy still running a BBS.
Honestly folks, does anyone really give a damn about Windows 98 any more?
A lot more than you realize.
If you need support and have 98, upgrade to 2000. It's that simple!
Why are you suggesting another dead product for replacing a dead OS (by its creator)? Yes, MS is still "supporting" W2K until 2010, but if you ask any questions about it, the last word is "upgrade to XP or Server 2003!" If you call MS to get support, they are actually very reluctant to do so and are normally very curt about it, as if you're wasting their time.
I don't know how you'd define it, but I wouldn't call that "support" at all.
However, what to do with all those businesses (especially low-profit government entities such as schools) with older machines, win98 licenses, and not a lot of money to spend on either hardware or operating systems? To me, it looks this is just another push for those entities towards a linux desktop, not based on any technical details, but due to just plain ol' dollars and cents.
You neglected to mention that it will cost these entities money to learn Linux, as well as teach their clients, et al., to learn it. As someone who supports the above entities pro bono, I can tell you that many of them have zero money to do anything. Their mantra: "if it works, why fix it?" Many Slashdotters forget that not everyone has the technical grasp to use Linux, even if there is a nice GUI helping out. If it's all DOS stuff they're using, I am not going to spend my time trying to slap up DOSbox or DOSemu when what they have is working just fine.
Also, schools may not be allowed to use Linux. I know of several school districts where it's mandated that all computers will run Windows (any version), but nothing else. If it does, it has to be approved through the school district. That can be hellish on anyone, especially when the school board knows little or nothing about Linux save for "it's a hacker's operating system". I've been through that before and quite frankly, they don't care. They want dollars and cents proof that moving to Linux, from what they already have, would be worth it. Sadly enough, most times, the answer is "no" to Linux. I haven't seen any school districts where I've lived adopt Linux. I've seen 'em adopt Macs and XP, but not Linux.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Let whatever solution they've been using for years work. I know plenty of people who are still under DOS, multitasking, surfing the Web, doing email, everything they want with nary a problem.
It's the industry to blame for this constant upgrading for people who don't need it. It's the push to sell, sell, sell, money, money, money. Knowledge is true power and when you reveal to people that they don't need to use the latest thing to do what they need to do, it really can open eyes and make minds easier. Yes, I agree, running any operating system on today's Internet without a firewall is crazy.
I'm assuming that most of you out there haven't heard of a website called Old Version (http://www.oldversion.com/). They have a lot of great free software, normally older versions of Windows stuff. They have some good firewalls on there, such as Tiny Personal Firewall, ZoneAlarm and Sygate Personal Firewall. If the person can't afford a hardware firewall, a software firewall is still a good option. I use Tiny Personal Firewall on my laptop and Winamp 2.95 for myself.
Again, the latest ain't the greatest.
People just need to get that through their heads.
In our eternal quest for cooler and newer and neater, we're burning dollars like crazy throwing our perfectly working machines and software. When will we learn...
Hear, hear. The machine I use everyday is over six years old now. My BBS machine is well over eight years old and my laptop is about seven years old. All work just fine and do exactly what I need. As in another thread I posted in, I'll state that people are swept up in "featuritis" - the need to have the latest and greatest, even if you don't need it.
I also see that most people can't see that there's other operating systems beyond Linux, Windows and the occasional Mac reference. I have OS/2 Warp 4.52, which has the AIX OS firewall built in, and it is about seven years old. I run it barefoot, with the firewall up, with no problems. I have for about five years now.
I refuse to buy a new computer unless I see an absolute compelling need for it. My wife bought herself a new 64-bit Athelon-powered system (we call it the "Belchfire 4000"), but she plays a lot of games and does a lot of heavy graphic-based websurfing (reading blogs, digital photography, et al.). I'm glad she bought herself a new machine...that's how I got the one I'm on!
Any OS can/is insecure unless you take steps to harden it. Even people's beloved *nix can have as many holes as a strainer if you don't lock everything up. Common sense isn't so common these days.
Newer is not necessarily better. The problem is that most people these days have no clue that older can work just fine.
Exactly so. And worse, the less a person knows about the Magic Box, the more they fear being "left behind". Sometimes it doesn't even help to demonstrate how their favourite guru (myself :) uses a great deal of older hardware and software, with optimal results.
:) I still use WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS in Everyday Life; it's now 15 years old and it still works as fine as ever. (Mainly it's my editor for BBS messaging... your sig is an ancient BBS tagline!)
Yep. It seems we (as in our mindset) are becoming rarer and rarer. Richard Steiner (who has replied to me on this thread) is a good friend and like us, a true tinkerer. He uses a little of everything to get things done. A lot of my customers cannot fathom why I am using older stuff (the computer I'm on right now is a Dell Dimension 8100 circa 2001). I tell them if it works, keep it. The typical mindset (as in the title) has somehow brainwashed the majority of people into thinking that they have to have the latest and greatest, at any cost.
On the other end, likewise I see no reason to coerce upgrades if the user is comfortable with an old setup -- in fact, the main result of talking 'em into upgrades is that they become so *uncomfortable* with their updated system, that now they get far LESS use from it than before. How is that beneficial to the person who OWNS the system??! our job is making the PC usable by its owner, not forcing it to fit some ideological ideal.
I agree. I feel I can make more money being truthful about my customer's particular situation than to lie and say they need to upgrade, need this, need that...even though I know too well they don't. My customers trust me because of my experience and judgement and I'm not going to let anything flawed such as "keeping up with the Joneses" ruin my relationship with my customers and friends (a lot of them are personal friends).
BTW contrary to popular belief, WinME can be made 100% stable -- turn off Restore, apply 98Lite in default mode, and (barring bogus drivers or shit hardware) it'll never crash again. Knowing that, why try to force a user to upgrade, when I can so-simply make their existing setup well-behaved?
I've got three legal licenses to Windows ME. I don't use it, but that's nice to know in case I do. [G]
And... M$ Works from 2001? that's mighty newfangled if you ask me
I bought a fully legal copy of WP 5.1/DOS, with the actual paper license certificate, for $5. It sits there on my shelf, unused. I bought it because I couldn't stand to see it sit in the thrift store. So instead, it sits on my shelf, heh. As for the BBS tagline, I run a BBS myself (although it's being shut down for an extended period soon). I have a lot of BBS taglines here somewhere..
OS/2? Nobody uses OS/2. :-)
;)
*quickly hides his copies of OS/2 Warp 4, OS/2 Warp 4.52 and eComStation 1.2*
Why yes, yes, no one uses OS/2 anymore. Everyone knows that Linux is king.
Average Users are more often frustrated and confused by upgrades than helped by them, but they've been taught to fear being "left behind" even when what they've got not only still works fine, but works better than the update. And they don't understand that "dropped support" doesn't mean "stops working at all".
Hear, hear. A lot of my customers (friends, family, et al.) feel that if they don't have the latest and greatest from Microsoft, they will somehow be left behind, just like you said. It takes a lot of prodding and reassurance from me to tell them that they don't have to have everything, save for security patches, to do what's needed. I mean, c'mon, I use an old version of Microsoft Works that I received with a new computer purchase from HP in 2001, still - even for my business. Why am I going to shell out hundreds, or even thousands, for something I don't need?
In that same vein, if Windows 9x/ME works for someone and they like it, I don't think it's morally or ethically right to push an upgrade if they don't need it. In my view, the Firefox development team is doing just that by forcing people to quit using their current setup just to use a new version of FF with extra features they don't need.
Yeah, best to stick to supporting those new and insecure OSs instead.
A quick note on that: I've hardened my W2K box and I've never had a problem with hacking, trojans, viruses or what-have-you. If people who run Windows (we're talking about the majority outside of the IT industry and geeks) would just take the time and use common sense, their systems would be much more safe. I'm not standing up for MS or anything here, just saying that common sense would prevent a lot of people from having problems.
Of course, having the OS written right from the ground up would make the most sense, but since that hasn't occured yet, people need to take matters into their own hands.
Nearly all of my customers that I educate about Windows, its security holes and how to use plain ol' common sense when dealing with Windows' problems rarely call me back again for Windows-related security issues. Most of the time it's for data recovery, hardware upgrades or software training (a la Office).
Since you're the one doing their repair, have you considered installing Linux/BSD OS for them? that's what i do when people with old machines demand good software. They don't even need to worry about games since those machines don't have the necessary horsepower to play them.
Unfortunately, in the instances that I've suggested it, I've not only gotten dumb looks and stares, but I've actually lost a customer over it. Stupid I know, but still. A majority of the people actually don't have many problems WRT viruses, spam, et al. Most of the time, I'm over to do upgrades (such as memory, a new hard drive). A few of my customers have refused, saying Linux is "not worth their time" (reasoning: "If it's free, how can it be any good?" - an actual quote).
But, in the same breath, if it wasn't for Windows, I wouldn't get half the business that I do [evin grin].
Windows XP still runs DOS programs. How often do you use that?
Man, you asked the WRONG person. [bg] I write BBS doors in DOS! I use it all the time. In fact, OMG, I even use OS/2! Isn't that scary? As a programmer I understand why the developers of Firefox are doing this. Win 95, 98, and Me are actually pretty different from NT, 2000, and XP. They use a different code base and have a lot of different APIs.
Yes, I do understand this. I do some Windows programming also and I understand the difference in APIs, et al. At the company I work at we have just also ended support for the 95-Me code base. It was getting too hard to support both the new OS and those old and insecure OSs.
ME was terrible - I'll grant you that - but there's still a lot of people using 95/98 that I know (my BBSing hobby nonwithstanding).
My point is this: FF is getting a bit bloated for me. Too many goodies, too much cruft. No one really needs all of the goodies...or maybe I'm just one who likes my programs to load in under 20 seconds.
I find it absolutely hilarious that you found a way to bash Microsoft in your subject line.
Just because I use MS products doesn't mean I have to necessarily like the company. I don't like having to support major oil companies when I drive, but I do because I have to drive where I'm at.
But if I can make a little statement when I can, it makes me feel better.
It seems to me that the developers of Firefox have fallen down the same pothole-filled path that Microsoft has - forget about your past, focus only on the future. As an guy who does quite a bit of home-based computer repair, I see a lot of people who are NOT using Windows XP and are using older versions of Windows (pre-2000 - I use W2K myself). What's happening to Firefox is that it's getting splintered apart slowly. I wouldn't be suprised to have four or five distinct versions of FF in the next few years (note I'm not saying ports, but distinct versions).
Firefox is already much slower-loading that it used to be a few years ago, loaded with a lot of things that probably aren't really necessary. Not all of us require the latest and greatest thing to do what we need to do and I feel that the developers of FF have lost touch of that, being driven by feature creep and "keeping up with the neighbors" mentality.
XPSP2 install, and it gives me direct (no WGA crap) links to download these updates.
That's awful funny, I'm running W2K SP4 and when I tried to install MBSA, it insisted on wanting installing that "Genuine Advantage" crap first. I have a legit copy of W2K, but I sure the heck am not going to rob Peter to pay Paul with my machine. Thankfully, I never have any of that "genuine" crap popping up when I use Windows Update. Then again, I learned long ago to stay far far away from XP. Just my observations.
... in these losers' supreme quest for the ultimate geek, they missed Geraldo and Jerry Springer. Now that's fighting - eyes getting poked out, blood everywhere, people screeching ...
Wait, that's just my recollection of the last office party. Sorry about that.
RBLs are a waste of time, they give immense power to a few individuals and groups, more often with an axe to grind. Do you really want to do that? Rhetorical question, you don't.
Hear, hear! You're absolutely right. What gives these few individuals the right to decide where my email goes to based on their so-called "blacklists"? The key word is "individual" - each person should control their own "blacklist", not have one gigantic problem.
This is akin to the sad state of our public education system - leave the education of children in the hands of a few and look what happens.
Don't blame SpamCop for the situation that results in your IP address being reported to them. No one is forced to used SpamCop's blacklists. They choose to use them because they believe they are useful in reducing spam.
You're right. SpamCop is generally lazy about removing people's IP addresses. I've actually used them before to pull a nasty trick (getting someone's entire static IP block listed as spam) and you know what? They did it happily, without asking.
If you're a moron and think SpamCop is worth something, then you get what you deserve. I don't run any spam filters or anything else for my business and I won't. Why?
A program can never take the place of a human's good discretion, period. Say all you want, but it won't happen. I've tried spam filters and they don't work very well - in fact, I even wrote my own to try it out and generally, it's a turkey shoot. If you're naieve enough to think that - and judging by how many people use SpamCop, there's a lot - you get what you deserve.
SpamCop was blocking my static IP. Why? Because the person before me had problems. I asked them to remove it and they gave me enough crap to fill a big septic tank. They never did, either. Thankfully I moved, got another ISP and all is well here.
If someone doesn't receive my message because their server sits here and cries and relies on a very inaccurate blacklist, then that's their problem, NOT MINE. It's funny how people are too damn lazy to just hit the Delete key or to make sure their systems don't become some spambot master's toy.
If you think that SpamCop helps stop spam, you probably think that people don't kill people, guns do. Relying on antispam programs is an intelligence crutch.
Torrent sites track torrents and provide a means of exchanging copyrighted materials. It's pretty cut and dry.
You said it right there, bud: the only damn reason RIAA is doing this now is because it can be TRACED. By God, you don't see them going down on people copying CDs, do you? When is the last time you heard anyone get busted for having a hot CD? Because it's tracable, they're doing it.
There's a lot of other fun ways to trade stuff that are pretty untraceable (not that I know this from personal experience, mind you). It's an old-school thing, I'd gather. It's like the saying "It used to be smart people using dumb computers. Now it's dumb people using smart computers."
I read a story recenty that said something akin to half or more of the Internet traffic currently is from torrent transfers. If you use a torrent, you're just ASKING to be nailed to the wall and hung out to dry. I chuckle reading these "they shouldn't be spying on torrents" comments. It's built into the very backbone of the technology. From what I understand, it's pretty easy to hack too.
That's why you'll never, ever, EVER catch me using a torrent. Baaad idea. Traceable? Not for me, thankyouverymuch.
Why don't you ask John Carmack sometime if it's okay that people download Doom 3 without paying him for the years of work he put into it? Carmack's a Slashdot hero around here...would be interesting to see people's reactions to his response.
I'm glad you said what this guy did because *gasp* I didn't know who the hell he was until you said something.
Contrast that with some items on the list that were complete disasters from the moment they were launched: IBM PC Jr., CueCat, Microsoft Bob... THOSE belong on the list. The list probably should have included some other items that had lofty ambitions but just never "took" (like OS/2). But, like I said, some of the ones on the list, I feel, aren't getting their due. We look at them now and see how worthless they are by today's standards (you can probably get any of these items on eBay for $5, now), but that ignores the impact they had when they were first released.
OS/2 never "took" because IBM let Microsoft walk all over them. OS/2 is still heavily used, but not in the US because of Microsoft's wonderful grip. Heck, OS/2 is still even being developed as eComStation and has some very nice features that Windows still doesn't have. Just because it's disappeared off the market, like DOS, doesn't mean it's worthless.
I still have three Zip drives - a parallel port Zip 100 on my BBS machine (running OS/2), a internal Zip 250 ATAPI on this machine and an external USB Zip 100 on my wife's machine. I have never, in over six years, had a problem with any of these drives. I found in my observations that if you didn't jam the damn disk into the drive, your chances of getting the "click of death" were little or none.
My drives are still going strong, some with disks that are 1998 vintage.
I have a CueCat here that was modified to be a nice handheld scanner. The "paperstrip" technology that CueCat used is still be used by the US Armed Forces on every single ID card they produce (on the back).
Some things from our past should be forgotten (such as Microsoft Bob, ugh), but there were lessons to be learned and still to learn from those products.
Symantec has putting out terrible products for years now. In addition to totally devastating the products it buys, it also makes them nearly impossible to remove. I have had to forcefully remove Norton products from many of my clients' systems by using the "forced removal" tools that Symantec provides. Now, I don't know if it's just me, but isn't that a bad sign when a company provides tools (even though the tools are buried in their corporate site) to remove their own products because the product's own uninstall routines fail miserably so often?
I normally recommend something along the lines of AVG or Avast! to customers after that little experience. People normally learn after their wallet gets hit a few good times for computer repair.
Ah, yes, the public miseducation system in action. The government feels it should control your every action, whether or not you're actually in their clutches at the time of the "misdeed". I have yet to have anyone explain to me to my satisfaction where in the Constitution that it is explicitly said that the government is responsible for education.
All the student did was say that he was being bullied and they're going to expel him - well, looks like someone's covering something up. Typical government reaction.
Public school - the best our nation can offer.
I hope this kid and his parents sue the pants off the school district and name names. I bet the NEA is gonna go beserk about this one.
As a licensed amateur radio operator myself (my callsign is KD5COL - I've been licensed since 1997), I can honestly say that amateur radio still has its place in this world. Besides what people think of hams (i.e. ragchewing, emergency communications), not all hams are geeks. My wife just recently became a ham herself and both of my parents (both near their sixties) are, as well as my biological father. Amateur radio presents unique opportunities that computers alone cannot offer.
... it's the camradarie of your friends and people you've never met sharing a similar hobby ... it's the uniqueness of having a call sign that identifies you amongst everyone else in the world ... it's the knowledge that your hobby is also a public service.
It's the fascination of learning and enjoying something you built yourself
Something else very cool also. In the state of Tennessee where I live, amateur radio operators have the privildge of obtaining emergency license plates for their automobiles. This allows the ham to be on the same level as police, fire, EMS, et al. You work with public officials in times of emergency to provide communications where nothing else is possible.
I enjoy the public service aspect of the hobby - I am frequently at public events providing communications for race officials, EMT, et cetera. People are always asking me questions, looking at my car's setup, checking out my HT (handie-talkie) and they seem to be genuinely interested.
Unfortunately, many of you don't have enough exposure to amateur radio to understand its usefulness and how we hams have advanced technology by experimentation.
A very good site to look at is http://www.hello-world.org/ Hello World - it explains a lot about amateur radio and how it's used.
As for the original author: get your license and enjoy it. Maybe we'll meet on 20 meters sometime!
ENJOY ES 73 KD5COL
When I was in high school, I was taught Pascal using a TRS-80 Model III. We had to design the program entirely on paper: first in a flowchart, then using pseudo-code and everyone's ideas were discussed in class. Then and only then were we unleashed to write code on the computer. Most of us preferred NOT to use the IDE (I can't even remember what Pascal compiler we used!), because it was simply faster to go in and type up our program, run the compiler, debug and rerun the compiler.
These days, I still use Pascal, but I do so in an IDE environment because there's more tools to help me out (such as a debugger, breakpoints, et al).
I personally suggest making your students learn programming on paper first, then having them learn the compiler. Perhaps in the final week(s) of your course, you could show the IDE to them and explain what it is.
I'm no professional programmer by any means, but those skills I learned have helped me in other areas in my life also.
It's not the OS's fault, nor is it the IM program's fault. It's the fault of ignorant computer users, no matter what OS they use, doing stupid things that they know they shouldn't be doing, even when they're told constantly.
Thankfully, their ignorance means more money and work for me in my business to fix their problems that they brought on themselves.
If they're stupid enough to open something from a program that they know could be bad, then they do deserve whatever they get.
It used to be smart people using dumb computers - now it's dumb people using smart computers.
GE: We bring good things to light!
(Sorry, I had to say it - I read that post and for some reason, that popped into my mind...)