Look at GNOME and KDE. They continue to innovate and improve their products, but it continues to leave users and developers in an annoying situation when they have to decide which to use.
People thinking "Well, GNOME has this feature that I love, but KDE has this feature that I need." just slows down the spread of Linux as a desktop alternative.
Everyone loves to respond to arguments like this by saying that choice is what it's all about. Well, I'd rather have applications that integrate well with each other and look the same than having to rely on hacks like Klipper to cut and paste properly between Qt and GTK apps.
Anyway, let's stick to Firefox for now and not try to reinvent the wheel so people have to chose between Firefox and some other web browser that a distro like Suse could get chummy with.
I assume you're talking about New Jersey. I live in this state also and power outages in the summer and winter are not uncommon. We used to lose power a few times a year. Then we got a generator and haven't lost power since. Anyway, no matter where you live, you're not going to have a guaranteed power supply.
I agree completely about package formats. I got so sick if trying to deal with compiled RPMs for Suse and Mandrake I switched to gentoo. So now I spend hours compiling from source code. However, I get a much more up to date system, larger package selection, and the packages almost always work with no dependency problems.
However, I can't expect even most technically inclined people to spend this much time installing and configuring software. I switched to gentoo to get away from Mandrakes horrid URPMI. I now use gentoo for other reasons, but I don't want to make this another gentoo zealot post.
My point is if you don't want to pull your hair out installing binary packages, installing EVERYTHING from source seems to be the only solution.
Yeah, flame me about apt and all those other tools that people claim are godsends of managing.debs or.rpms, but I got so frustrated with them.
Computers have two functions for two groups of people. The first group doesn't care how they work and want it to just work because to them it's a tool. It should be a time saver! That's their purpose!
The second group, some people here and most linux users want their computer to be a tool, but they also want to be able to dick around with it for hours. They like fiddling and tweaking around with this stuff because it presents a new challenge for them.
No group is "better" or "smarter" than the other. The second group developed linux and now they're trying to get the first group interested in it (backed up by business in some cases). However, they first must understand what the first group wants and expects before Desktop Linux (TM) will take off.
Everything I is in the kernel. I have to make a few things modules because they needed to be loaded in proper order for certain things to work properly. For example, I need to load PCMCIA then Firewire because I have an external drive connecting to the PCMCIA.
I'm guessing the kernel they distribute with Suse is as bare as they can go with everything as modules. So essentially either approach will lead to the same results.
But thanks for checking for me anyway. You don't have to post it, but I'm guessing if you run "lsmod" you'll see a lot of modules.
I'd like to see if their conclusions point to Apple redesigning a lot of their software. Microsoft seems to just add more and more "stuff" to their existing code. They did that until Windows ME. Now they're doing that from the NT5 kernel.
My "vmlinuz" file is just over 2mb. This is kernel 2.6.9. I cut out everything I don't need and everything I might need I make them modules. This is still compressed, however so I'm not directly talking about memory usage when the system is up and running.
Can someone a distro like Mandrake or Suse comment on the how large the compressed kernel is?
If they are much different in size, then I'd say you can substantially reduce the unnecessary bloat.
The Xbox is now less than $150. However, the games for it cost about $50. Some of that money game developers take in is then given back to Microsoft for licensing costs. However, piracy is rampant on the Xbox. It's so easy to throw in a mod chip and hard drive that will allow someone to rip the game straight to the system. Hell, it gives a better playing experience. No more swapping out discs, worrying about scratches, or slower loading times when you use a system that circumvents their system.
Hardware will never be this free. People see a computer as a box with button and a screen. They don't care about the software on it. They can always ask some kid down the street to put a new copy of windows on it because people who don't deal with software on a daily basis don't feel it's tangible.
Microsoft should just sit tight, count their money, and pray they don't lose market share to Linux and Apple. All these attempts to convince people Linux is bad and Windows Starter Edition is good just makes people more aware of their alternatives.
"and what seems to be bleeding edge software that is incorporated with it, does Xandros even stand a chance?"
Alright, so pretend I'm "a business guy." Should I care about bleeding edge software for my employees? Why bother? If it works for them, it works for me. This is why I never understood the complaints that Sun's Java Desktop was running a 2.4 kernel. Who cares if it up to date? In the business world all that matters is if it works. When it doesn't work, you're out big bucks.
Alright, I'm not in the business world but in the academic world so anyone can flame me to their heart's content. But I don't see the cost of a desktop operating system as an issue. I see it as how much it will cost the company when it doesn't work. And what are companies looking into now? The cost of windows spyware and worms. So I think a company like Xandros could have a good future in providing the "easy desktop that works" to many businesses.
That's the beauty of Linux, IMHO, you can be a geek and tweak it, or you can be a "regular person" and "just use it."
You're missing the point. They're targetting it for people who don't want to learn about linux. Not everybody shares your passions of computers. Don't think of them as being lesser than linux geeks like ourselves (gentoo, a few ~x86).
I think Xandros has a viable future if they can come through and make a desktop that's easiest to use.
I think they feel it's an opportunity to show the "community" they're a fair team player. If they started charging more, Intel would be pissed off because that dramatically increases the cost of computers with their processors running windows.
Think about this, Microsoft says in 2005 they will change their mind and expect large companies that just invested tons of money in new servers to give them even more money. So the company can weigh the cost of switching to linux over the cost of paying the new licensing fee.
Of course Microsoft could change their mind at any moment, but they wouldn't want people see it coming so they can prepare a switch to linux.
And yes, I know not everything can be switched to linux. But I'm sure companies factor the cost of switching to the cost of continuing with windows. And if it's less, Microsoft is smart enough to discount their product.
As much as the common slashdotter loves to call Microsoft a bunch of idiots, they're smart and they understand business.
These $699 comments are still being modded up as funny? I think the goatse guy engulfing Soviet Russia while claiming all 640K of your base is his as he spends 48 hours compiling gentoo would be funnier.
This got modded informative? Jesus christ. As someone who already voted for Bush in this election, I hope Kerry wins and screws everything up just so that slashdot can stop this bullshit. I don't care if the rest of the world is falling apart, I just want slashdot back to normal.
Can restricting accounts from administrator to a regular user help at all? I don't know the answer to this question with windows? The windows computers at my school don't allow you to install software, but I don't know if that's feasible in your situation.
I would start by considering rolling out firefox on everyone's computer. I think that would curtail it substantially.
And please, no one suggest switching every machine to linux. No spyware problems are definitely a bonus, but I wouldn't take on the tremendous task of switching everyone over just because of spyware. And yes, I run and love linux, but I can't imagine installing it on 2000+ machines.
It's a good thing for Microsoft that xbmc is an open source project. I guess they're trying to make a product that will allow them to collect some extra revenue but more importantly convince them that there exists an easier solution then modding their xbox. However, why make it just for Windows Media Center edition? How many people actually have that?
SMB is how windows computers share files and printers with each other. The OSS version called Samba is an implementation of this that allows *nix computers to do the same. So you can have a windows network and hook up a computer with linux and run samba and get the same access to the files and printers and be able to share your files and printers.
A little off topic, but I feel windows smb is easy to set up, but it craps out a lot where as Samba can be a pain to set up when communicating to say windows xp machines, but once you get it configured properly it always works.
As for as operating systems that can run on 90% percent of the world's desktops go, Microsoft's only competition is linux. It's in their best interests financially to keep surpressing linux, cutting deals for people who consider switching, and spread FUD so people are afraid to switch. They want people to think of Microsoft when it comes to software, not choice.
Intelligent? These robots just compute a series of instructions laid out by humans. There is no consciousness, no real thinking. I think when someone can create a system that can reinvent itself and create new systems that a human never thought of will be when we see intelligent robots. Robots are just computers that can mechanically interact with the world anyway.
When my kernel finds bugs on it's own or finds a more efficient way to control memory, and recompiles itself, I'll consider it a smart computer. Until then, it's just another software system created by humans limited to the original human who designed and implemented it.
There are still added development costs and I believe it requires a more powerful cpu than mp3 decoding does. If only a few percent of the market is interested in it and other companies like Rio are fulfilling that market, the added costs probably aren't justified.
Slashdot Mirror
BS? Isn't that what saved them back when ppc clones were killing their business?
to speed it up, try this command:
# ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~virus" emerge --oneshot trojan
make sure you enable -funroll-loops and -pipe or else the program runs waaay to slowly. Don't use GCC 3.4 or else it fails.
I wouldn't worry, they're probably on the forums trying to find the command to install it.
Look at GNOME and KDE. They continue to innovate and improve their products, but it continues to leave users and developers in an annoying situation when they have to decide which to use.
People thinking "Well, GNOME has this feature that I love, but KDE has this feature that I need." just slows down the spread of Linux as a desktop alternative.
Everyone loves to respond to arguments like this by saying that choice is what it's all about. Well, I'd rather have applications that integrate well with each other and look the same than having to rely on hacks like Klipper to cut and paste properly between Qt and GTK apps.
Anyway, let's stick to Firefox for now and not try to reinvent the wheel so people have to chose between Firefox and some other web browser that a distro like Suse could get chummy with.
"Ogg Vorbis took years to emerge"
Can we stop making fun of gentoo people for once!
I assume you're talking about New Jersey. I live in this state also and power outages in the summer and winter are not uncommon. We used to lose power a few times a year. Then we got a generator and haven't lost power since. Anyway, no matter where you live, you're not going to have a guaranteed power supply.
I agree completely about package formats. I got so sick if trying to deal with compiled RPMs for Suse and Mandrake I switched to gentoo. So now I spend hours compiling from source code. However, I get a much more up to date system, larger package selection, and the packages almost always work with no dependency problems.
.debs or .rpms, but I got so frustrated with them.
However, I can't expect even most technically inclined people to spend this much time installing and configuring software. I switched to gentoo to get away from Mandrakes horrid URPMI. I now use gentoo for other reasons, but I don't want to make this another gentoo zealot post.
My point is if you don't want to pull your hair out installing binary packages, installing EVERYTHING from source seems to be the only solution.
Yeah, flame me about apt and all those other tools that people claim are godsends of managing
Computers have two functions for two groups of people. The first group doesn't care how they work and want it to just work because to them it's a tool. It should be a time saver! That's their purpose!
The second group, some people here and most linux users want their computer to be a tool, but they also want to be able to dick around with it for hours. They like fiddling and tweaking around with this stuff because it presents a new challenge for them.
No group is "better" or "smarter" than the other. The second group developed linux and now they're trying to get the first group interested in it (backed up by business in some cases). However, they first must understand what the first group wants and expects before Desktop Linux (TM) will take off.
But what about Simon and Theodore?
Everything I is in the kernel. I have to make a few things modules because they needed to be loaded in proper order for certain things to work properly. For example, I need to load PCMCIA then Firewire because I have an external drive connecting to the PCMCIA.
I'm guessing the kernel they distribute with Suse is as bare as they can go with everything as modules. So essentially either approach will lead to the same results.
But thanks for checking for me anyway. You don't have to post it, but I'm guessing if you run "lsmod" you'll see a lot of modules.
I'd like to see if their conclusions point to Apple redesigning a lot of their software. Microsoft seems to just add more and more "stuff" to their existing code. They did that until Windows ME. Now they're doing that from the NT5 kernel.
My "vmlinuz" file is just over 2mb. This is kernel 2.6.9. I cut out everything I don't need and everything I might need I make them modules. This is still compressed, however so I'm not directly talking about memory usage when the system is up and running.
Can someone a distro like Mandrake or Suse comment on the how large the compressed kernel is?
If they are much different in size, then I'd say you can substantially reduce the unnecessary bloat.
I think a cheaper alternative would just be to get an NVIDIA card and use the open source "nv" driver.
The Xbox is now less than $150. However, the games for it cost about $50. Some of that money game developers take in is then given back to Microsoft for licensing costs. However, piracy is rampant on the Xbox. It's so easy to throw in a mod chip and hard drive that will allow someone to rip the game straight to the system. Hell, it gives a better playing experience. No more swapping out discs, worrying about scratches, or slower loading times when you use a system that circumvents their system.
Hardware will never be this free. People see a computer as a box with button and a screen. They don't care about the software on it. They can always ask some kid down the street to put a new copy of windows on it because people who don't deal with software on a daily basis don't feel it's tangible.
Microsoft should just sit tight, count their money, and pray they don't lose market share to Linux and Apple. All these attempts to convince people Linux is bad and Windows Starter Edition is good just makes people more aware of their alternatives.
"and what seems to be bleeding edge software that is incorporated with it, does Xandros even stand a chance?"
Alright, so pretend I'm "a business guy." Should I care about bleeding edge software for my employees? Why bother? If it works for them, it works for me. This is why I never understood the complaints that Sun's Java Desktop was running a 2.4 kernel. Who cares if it up to date? In the business world all that matters is if it works. When it doesn't work, you're out big bucks.
Alright, I'm not in the business world but in the academic world so anyone can flame me to their heart's content. But I don't see the cost of a desktop operating system as an issue. I see it as how much it will cost the company when it doesn't work. And what are companies looking into now? The cost of windows spyware and worms. So I think a company like Xandros could have a good future in providing the "easy desktop that works" to many businesses.
That's the beauty of Linux, IMHO, you can be a geek and tweak it, or you can be a "regular person" and "just use it."
You're missing the point. They're targetting it for people who don't want to learn about linux. Not everybody shares your passions of computers. Don't think of them as being lesser than linux geeks like ourselves (gentoo, a few ~x86).
I think Xandros has a viable future if they can come through and make a desktop that's easiest to use.
I think they feel it's an opportunity to show the "community" they're a fair team player. If they started charging more, Intel would be pissed off because that dramatically increases the cost of computers with their processors running windows.
Think about this, Microsoft says in 2005 they will change their mind and expect large companies that just invested tons of money in new servers to give them even more money. So the company can weigh the cost of switching to linux over the cost of paying the new licensing fee.
Of course Microsoft could change their mind at any moment, but they wouldn't want people see it coming so they can prepare a switch to linux.
And yes, I know not everything can be switched to linux. But I'm sure companies factor the cost of switching to the cost of continuing with windows. And if it's less, Microsoft is smart enough to discount their product.
As much as the common slashdotter loves to call Microsoft a bunch of idiots, they're smart and they understand business.
These $699 comments are still being modded up as funny? I think the goatse guy engulfing Soviet Russia while claiming all 640K of your base is his as he spends 48 hours compiling gentoo would be funnier.
This got modded informative? Jesus christ. As someone who already voted for Bush in this election, I hope Kerry wins and screws everything up just so that slashdot can stop this bullshit. I don't care if the rest of the world is falling apart, I just want slashdot back to normal.
I'm a gentoo user. I've compiled a new kernel twice this week. I'm not joking. 2.6.8-r9 and 2.6.8-r10.
I don't need this new kernel. It's an obsession. we need a Linux Users Anonymous
Can restricting accounts from administrator to a regular user help at all? I don't know the answer to this question with windows? The windows computers at my school don't allow you to install software, but I don't know if that's feasible in your situation.
I would start by considering rolling out firefox on everyone's computer. I think that would curtail it substantially.
And please, no one suggest switching every machine to linux. No spyware problems are definitely a bonus, but I wouldn't take on the tremendous task of switching everyone over just because of spyware. And yes, I run and love linux, but I can't imagine installing it on 2000+ machines.
It's a good thing for Microsoft that xbmc is an open source project. I guess they're trying to make a product that will allow them to collect some extra revenue but more importantly convince them that there exists an easier solution then modding their xbox. However, why make it just for Windows Media Center edition? How many people actually have that?
SMB is how windows computers share files and printers with each other. The OSS version called Samba is an implementation of this that allows *nix computers to do the same. So you can have a windows network and hook up a computer with linux and run samba and get the same access to the files and printers and be able to share your files and printers.
A little off topic, but I feel windows smb is easy to set up, but it craps out a lot where as Samba can be a pain to set up when communicating to say windows xp machines, but once you get it configured properly it always works.
As for as operating systems that can run on 90% percent of the world's desktops go, Microsoft's only competition is linux. It's in their best interests financially to keep surpressing linux, cutting deals for people who consider switching, and spread FUD so people are afraid to switch. They want people to think of Microsoft when it comes to software, not choice.
Intelligent? These robots just compute a series of instructions laid out by humans. There is no consciousness, no real thinking. I think when someone can create a system that can reinvent itself and create new systems that a human never thought of will be when we see intelligent robots. Robots are just computers that can mechanically interact with the world anyway.
When my kernel finds bugs on it's own or finds a more efficient way to control memory, and recompiles itself, I'll consider it a smart computer. Until then, it's just another software system created by humans limited to the original human who designed and implemented it.
There are still added development costs and I believe it requires a more powerful cpu than mp3 decoding does. If only a few percent of the market is interested in it and other companies like Rio are fulfilling that market, the added costs probably aren't justified.