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Holiday Competition For iPod Dollars
An anonymous reader writes "MP3newswire.net is running a two part article on 15 new digital music portables or "iPod Killers" as the digerati have dubbed them. iPod Killers for Christmas Part I includes what I think is the coolest new player, the Olympus MR 500i with touch-screen technology and and sharp black-on-white color scheme. iPod Killers for Christmas Part II's most interesting portables are the new Epson MPEG-4/MP3 media jukebox and the SoniqCast Aireo 2 Wi Fi. Lots of photos and size specs. Also, Ogg Vorbis is picking up steam as more new players are adding it."
None of these device's interfaces impresses me as much as the iPod.
If there's anything that's going to kill the iPod it'll be its lack of Ogg Vorbis support...
Am I the only one seeing in my firefox the porn image where the title image should be?
__
Sig: Marine Stock Photos
quite a while now
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
...is going to have to find something better than "an iPod killer" to label themselves.
Originality people!
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
chances are high they'll just kill themselves...
www.weberseite.at
Look, the problem with these companies is that they are concentrating too much on physical design and low cost. They don't realize the fact that the reason why many people buy iPods, even if they cost more, is that they are much easier to install and use than their products. An iPod (on macs at least), there is only one step: Plug into firewire port. Thats it. No need to mess with drivers or install difficult mp3 players on your PC.
iPod Killers for Christmas Part I includes what I think is the coolest new player, the Olympus MR 500i with touch-screen technology and and sharp black-on-white color scheme.
...And cute little white "please mug me" earphones just like the iPod.
Why are you posting this right after I ordered my iRiver H320 ????
Bastards!
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
From the recent Apple conference call:
"In the US, Apple's iPod retains 65% market share of digital music players and over 90% market share of players based on a hard drive."
Shucks. 90% of the hard drive player market, and more than half of the market overall.
The Apple Product Cycle (I wish I came up with it, I didn't), which I've linked to in my sig for a month or two because it's hysterical- talks about this "stage" of the game.
Isn't it funny how people have been proclaiming the death of the iPod for...uh...years? iPod is on its FOURTH generation.
Please help metamoderate.
According to the press release, the Epson has a "3.8-inch Photo Fine LCD" at a resolution of 212 ppi. Assuming that's the diagonal, and extrapolating from the photo that gives a size of about 6"x3.5", which is not too bad really. I'm not too sure about "killing" the iPod, but it might just steal some sales from Vosonic's XS drive range. I'm certainly leaning more towards the Epson for a bulk storage device to accompany my DSLR on field trips right now...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Funny, this comment word for word is exactly like http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=125992&cid=105 50209 posted previously.
Why does everyone think that the iPod killer is going to be a new player?
That's not what an iPod is.
An iPod is actually a combination of things. First, it's a small, lightweight player. That's right where most people stop. They think "Hey, we can make a light weight player, and we can make it cheaper."
Second, it's an easy to use player. Too many competitors don't take this into consideration. There are far too many players on the market that gloss over this step. It's hard to demonstrate UI through press photos. Word of mouth is the key for this step, and it tends to destroy most other players. Lets face it, most people are idiots, and end up confused by the average mp3 player UI, and then they bitch about it. The iPod is so simple anyone can use it.
Now here's the sneaky part that everyone seems to forget about. The iPod is also married to the iTunes Music Store. It's an easy, legal way to get songs on your player. Both built from the ground up to work together with ease. Throw in 1-Click purchasing, and you've got yourself a nice little system.
To see a real iPod killer, someone will have to come up with an easier way to get music onto their player. Until that happens, everyone's going to keep selling their ideas in the boardroom, only to watch them fall apart in the market.
From the story
'Virgin Player
Another newcomer to the digital player arena is Virgin. Their first portable is the 3.1oz Virgin player, half an inch lighter than the iPod Mini's 3.6oz. The player also offers an extra GB of space coming in at 5GB for the same $250 price tag.'
Emphasis mine.
Anyone care to explain how 'half an inch' converts to ounces?
Oh god...the dirty jokes.
Actually, a number of players work just fine with iTunes; they appear just like an iPod would, you get the same sync options, etc. Before I bought an iPod, I used it with my Rio500 until I got tired of trying to assemble mp3's on the rio's limited space (even wit a 32MB expansion card, whoa, a whole 32MB!). Straight from an Apple press release in 2001:
download songs to popular MP3 players from Rio and Creative Labs with plug-and-play simplicity with no extra software or complicated driver installations required.
Please help metamoderate.
Most of these players are plain ugly and hardly have the same elegance of the great idol.
Most of all, most of their bundled software sucks very much. iTunes (+ Shop) makes the iPod rock - and it's a very cool application!
So unless someone releases a convincing competitor to iTunes all those iPod-Killers will hardly make any impact.
So which ones have user replacable batteries?
With so many manufacturers, I'm sure that more than 50% of them will be bought or out of business in 2-3 years. Many of them use proprietary Li-polymer batteries (they are wonderfully small) that can only be replaced by the factory. Since the lifespan of these batteries are maybe two years, you better hope that someone still manufactures those proprietary batteries and is willing to change them for you. At what price? Did you choose the right model?
When I put my tinfoil hat on I can see it clearly; built-in batteries is a godsend for manufacturers since it allows them to create product that don't last for more than 3-4 years which will create more future buyers. You don't own your MP3 player. You just rent it on a 2-3 year basis.
)9TSS
Oh, and it's got to look really cool and sexy. I was gonna get a rio karma, but I heard the siren call of the sexy iPod and soon had one.
Though considering I recently bought an iPod, it will be a while before I have the money to buy another cool device. And my experience with the iPod makes it unlikely that I will buy any device which is not an iPod or made by Apple. So maybe this isn't being marketed to people like me.
Regardless, I don't want a video player. I don't want fancy graphics. I want an audio player, and that's what I've got. I think there are many like me.
I also want it to look cool, and my iPod definitely is that. I want an experience which is easy, and it is easy. And I'm running linux too!
I've got iTunes through cxitunespreview, and I've got management of the iPod through gtkpod (not as nice as direct management through iTunes, but still, it does what I want). Oh, and I can transfer the files off of iTunes with gtkpod, all I had to do was recompile it with this mpeg4 lib.
I also love the attachment by Griffin Technologies that allows me to record lectures. That has been a real benefit, and was one of the major reasons I chose the iPod over the karma.
Actually I found the link at the bottom of the article, iRiver Turns Focus on In-Dash MP3 Players to be even more interesting. It looks like we'll finally start seeing some decent car audio MP3 offerings. I'm awfully tired of burning files to CD to play in the car. If iRiver is going to offer a model with wireless to sync up while parked in the garage, I would buy it immediately.
When I see those people, all I can think of is ripping those little white earphones out of their ears and shaking them down for lunch money. Then I realize that they're still the hardcore ghetto types and I'm still the geek, and I return to day dreaming about being able to afford an iPod.
People seem to love modding me down for pointing out their stupidity and arrogance...
Most Ipod buyers aren't slashdot geeks, not even tech enthusiasts. They want a Name-brand product that does one thing, and not even have to change the default settings. (Itunes is set for encoding songs in Apple's AAC, not MP3, and technically the difference between the two formats is trivial) Its all about the marketplace, not the technology. I've even heard that a $400 Ipod costs about $12 to manufacture... can anyone confirm this?
Does the image look familiar to you? Do you use a dial-up accelerator? It could a corruption in your or its cache.
Windows is only $500 if your time is worthless.
Because apple doesn't want it to happen .
A lot of the iPod competition seems to think that the killer app is more features, more formats, and more choices in general. Do these companies have any clue what it's like for the average consumer to walk into a Best Buy and make this decision? Not only does brand, which Apple has in spades, make this decision a lot easier, but choosing one from two (iPod or iPod Mini, or, in other words, big or small), is a heck of a lot easier than choosing one from Archos GMini XS200, Olympus MR500i and MR100 and a Creative Muvo Micro N200. And what the hell is an MPIO FL300 with "Ogg Vorbis"?
"Just give me the iPod. My son's friend has one of those and he seems to like it."
That was the most laugh-out-loud funny comment ever posted to Slashdot.
your mom wants the Ipod to vibrate, she told me so this morning. "All the top-of-the-line phones vibrate- but I'd rather have a little mood music... and long battery life of course" I immediately buy tickets for Cupertino...
um... iPod was doing quite well before iTMS. i'd guess that the quality, design and the features (including ease of use) is the number one reason iPod sells. the fact it has a nicely integrated music service is secondary. people don't think "ohh, i want an iPod because it works with iTMS' loosely-DRMed AAC." people think "ohh, this is a really slick player" or "ohh, i got to try playing with one of my friend's iPod and it's so much better than the small mp3 player i have! now i want one for christmas."
... which is disappointing.
Has anybody any opinion on the best of the bunch that do (and are available in / to the UK)?
There is no way that could be true. Perhaps if you left the drive and/or the battery out, it might cost that much. If you assume that the battery is marked up 100%, that is still $25-$40 depending on who you buy it from. The iPod Mini drives alone, are sold for storage for digital cameras. When iPod minis were first introduced, photographers were buying them and tearing them apart to get the drive out of it. Apple's large purchases drove the price down enough that the entire device was cheaper than the drives alone. So. while I'm sure that Apple is probably marking them up by 30-50%, they still cost more than $12 to make.
Why doesn't anything interesting happen when I have mod points?
if/when i can get a player with the same level of simple UI elegance with a few new features. Screw color screens and video / photo playback. I want a built in AM/FM reciever, FM transmitter and bluetooth. Why bluetooth you might ask? So that (with a simple mic too i suppose) i can answer my cell phone without taking off my headphones.
For the average consumer, I think the iTunes music store is more important than the iPod itself. I've tried most of the competition (Musicmatch, WMP10, etc.) and their technology is just awful, terrible, nasty. Have you looked at Microsoft Windows Media Player 10? I counted like 6 nested menu systems in it, all different kinds. Some look like browser menus, some look like windows menus, some weird tabs for the linked music stores. Grandma is supposed to use it as her jukebox software? HA!
iTunes is incredibly easy for the average consumer. Plug in your iPod, it copies the music to it. Put in an audio CD, the button on the top right says "import". Buy music off the iTunes music store, it downloads. All within the same app.
Is anyone else even close on the ease of use of iTunes? I haven't seen anything, and I think you need that kind of ease-of-use to be the consumer success that the iPod has been.
- "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
1) Clone the iPod interface 2) Add support for all formats 3) Longer lasting accumulator (more than 18 months) 4) Cheaper than the iPod 5) Longer custommer support
sorry for the OT. Must have been the ISP cache indeed. SHIFT+RELOAD and everything solved. Thanks
__
Sig: Marine Stock Photos
i also wonder how much apple helped themselves by sticking to one "name" for the iPod. they haven't introduced weird model numbering schemes. it hasn't been "apple mp3-4-40" or something like that for 4th gen. 40 GB iPod. people just say, "i want an iPod." even if they want other mp3 players. *that* is brand recognition.
it's always been "iPod" (albeit, if you go into details, there are scroll wheel model (1st gen), touch wheel model (2nd gen), dock model (3rd gen) and click-wheel model (4th gen).)
... solely due to the "click wheel" thing - no other player has this, no other player is as easy to use.
...
Paint them whatever colur you want, make them as small as you like - the competing boxes have lousy interfaces
The people I know with Ipods could probably put all the songs from CDs they want to listen to without ANY compression. It's also pretty easy to delete and add songs at any time. I could understand the issue for those who want to keep video files, but mp3s? Just what percentage of those songs do you actaully listen to?
Glad to be of service, ma'm.
Windows is only $500 if your time is worthless.
I've even heard that a $400 Ipod costs about $12 to manufacture... can anyone confirm this?
Hey, I hear gullible isn't in the dictionary....
The iPod might cost $12 to ASSEMBLE, but Apple still has to go and buy all the pieces. I would seriously like to know where you propose I get a sub $10 20 gigabyte microdrive.....
On a related note, wouldn't it be nice if we could find out where the various components of products are made, for example the ipod is assembled in Taiwan, I'm certain large parts of it aren't made there....
Monstar L
Why don't you just delete them to save space ?
If Apple really does have a new 60gb iPod waiting with photo support (http://thinksecret.com/news/0410photoipod.html) and the like then the ipod killer for christmas will be the iPod itself. With a high end (photo enabled 60gb), mid-range (20/40gb ipods) and 'economy' offering (the mini - which could use a price slash) Apple against all odds and logic can continue to own the mp3 market for at least the holiday season and well into next year. But, as we have seen repeatedly the real trouble Apple tends to have is actually making enough of them.
It will be hard and likely take years to break the stranglehold Apple has on the industry. A great music store built in to a free best-in-class music player/ripper/burner/organizer and coupled with the ipod family of players. The fad hasnt turned on Apple in the slightest and most likely it hasnt even _peaked_.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
'I've even heard that a $400 Ipod costs about $12 to manufacture... can anyone confirm this?'
Not a chance in hell. The drive alone is probably half if not more of the overall price, then you have to add in the electronics, LCD, etching the back metal plate, assembly...
I have not yet seen it announced.
Watch out Apple!
(linked image is Safe for Work...)
I like microcars
Normally I would agree that nobody cares about ogg support, or xvid support, or whatever the new nerd codec is. Being the token nerd at my job, and amongst my friends people ask my what they should buy. So... yes support for these codecs will get them more business because people will ask that token nerd what is important.
There goes another bunch of "iPod Killers". So far, all attempts to kill the iPod have led to the untimely demise of the would-be assassins. You do not have to beat the iPod alone, but the combination of the iTunes application, the iTunes Music store and then the iPod itself.
--> iTunes application: One of the best jukebox programs around, for windows and Mac. Sorts and finds your stuff, looks cool, works well. Do competing services have anything comparable? Not yet. iTunes is in version 4.6. That's a mighty headstart.
--> iTunes Music store: Huge store, good price (iTMS pioneered the 99 Cent price model), liberal DRM, user-friendly. What more do you want?
--> iPod: Last is the iPod itself. A cultural icon, practical, easy to use, and not too pricy.
Will be a decent cellphone that is as easy to use most likely. Media players and cell phones and PDAs are all merging eventually, you can see it coming. I will predict that.
And frankly, hundreds of dollars for just a portable tiny media player is a stretch for a lot of people. I guess some folks can afford them but really, it's too expensive, and I am just too old to get sucked into consumer "fad" hype anymore. If you can get a right decent desktop for 400$, there's no rational reason some small media thingamajig should cost the same, none, other than there's a sucker born every minute and people seem to love to be exploited. It's a collection of asian electronic parts, which are today *cheap*, to the point of throw away cheap.
I know they sell a lot of them at that gross inflated price, I won't dispute that or argue marketing,that stuff is what it is, it's reality, but that just proves (to me anyway) a lot of people have more money (now) than common sense, and a pretty skewed sense of priorities. I might get one once they have been out long enough so that they are in the used market at like 20 dollars or something, same with a PDA. Or, like I said, wait until a cell phone at a reasonable price has a lot more features to it.
Guess I am just getting cranky and cynical, but to me enoughs enough on this OMG GOTTAHAVEIT deal with over priced gadgets. I'm a geek and I like gadgets, I have just cut way down past few years because it's gotten out of control. I have a box full of cxellphones, all of them work, it costs more money to rerplace the battery than it does to get a new phone. Sucks. Same with a few laptops I got. sucks. I have some portable radio/cassette thingees, they still work fine and take cheap batteries, and paid for them years ago, done. I am NOT going to listen to 10,000 songs in one day, and it's just not that hard to have a few tapes handy. I dfon't go to work to watch some media movie or to play games, so don't need those sorts of features. OTA radio still has tunes and talk, if you have a decent one and can actually learn to tune in channels better.
I used to be a serious mac fanboy, but really, they got enough of my loot, time to move on. I used to be able to justify their high prices when the only rational competition was having to run early windows,so I paid it, but now, nope,they switched to a unixy system and kept the same high prices on their boxes, refuse to drop prices down to any entry level that is comparable with anyone else, their computers are way too expensive and no way would I pay that 400 buck price for some teeny music player, I got real adult grownup things that need to be paid for first.
Not trying to flame anyone for their selections, but just think on it, that much money for THAT? If people got that sort of spare change, then I'd like to see less whining about the economy, they must be better off than 95% of the humans I know, who wouldn't even consider owning something like an ipod at that pricing level.
To each their own I guess, just this thread needed a contrarian viewpoint on the whole phenomenon.
Majority of the people that buy ipods aren't technically inclined. They see it as a status symbol. So, until the fad moves to a new and 'cute' product, the ipod's to stay. Besides, the ipod is so shiny :)
"What seems to be the problem, osciffer?" (pronounced aus-if-fer.. bah forget it)
When I'll buy an MP3 player, I will look for design and features first! That includes usability, something that Apple got right with their player. The ability to buy songs off iTunes is nice, but I don't really care about that; I have enough other (legal, yes, thank you) sources of music. People buy iPods because they are of good quality, they work well, are easy to use, and have a high cool factor. iTunes may influence the buying decision some, but it's not overly important... especially since people new to the iPod generally won't have previous experience with iTunes.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I picked up a DCP-400 off of ebay a while ago. Got it for 75, it looks great, and I'm having a great time with it. The American equivalent is the SlimX by Iriver, which I personally think isn't quite as nice, but if you want a cheaper alternative, check one of these out.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
How about one of these to make the Ipod complete?
Dont need some fancy new 'killer' with feature bloat beyond what an Ipod really is.. a music device that works, and is easy to operate....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
$250 for a music machine? I can get a cd "WalkMan" for $50, less if I go for an off brand, more if I go for a major brand. Thats a nice price, I can afford to buy one if I want one. At $250 it is no longer a buy if I want it budget item, but something most people have to think twice about.
Sure I can afford it. I'm a single geek with a good job. For the average person this is way too much. Even for me it becomes an item I think about before buying, so far other things have been more important.
The Apple iPod has user replaceable batteries!
:)
Google it, if you don't believe me
GPL Deconstructed
These are all fine if you don't like music very much. I need a portable 2TB WAV player to store my music collection in a listenable format. Wake me when they get there.
The "click wheel" thing blows...rather non-intuitive in my opinion. That's pretty much the only reason I don't buy an iPod.
policitical suicide. Seems to me that in order to change things, you gotta play the game for a while before you can bring in your vision. If Sen. Kerry voted against war in Iraq, which was a pretty popular notion in congress, it would have been political suicide, and now it would be Bush vs. Edwards. Unfortunately you gotta play the game first and not try to rock the boat until you have the power to do so.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I just picked up an MPIO HD300 over an ipod because it does ogg vorbis.
Sorry Apple, but white headphones won't do it for me.
-un1xl0ser
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
Okay, so let's assume you're right and $250 is too much for most people. So what? What bearing does that have on anything at all?
This is an article about the iPod's competition, not the great mystery of why the entire population of the industrialized world hasn't bought an iPod yet.
I submitted a story about the CBC streaming in Ogg more than two weeks ago.
As of today, no mention of it has shown up on the front page.
This isn't about ego. ("Hey, it's that Anonymous Coward who really likes using parentheticals. I like his, or her, or their, style!") But I find it... interesting... that the absence of Ogg from a glorified walkman seems to excite people more than the presence of Ogg at the national radio service of a G7 nation.
The CBC will soon celebrate one month of Ogg Vorbis streaming, and the collective reaction from Slashdot will not even amount to a yawn. In the aggregate, we care so little about actual real-world use of Ogg Vorbis that we can't even bother to scoff.
If I were an Apple executive, I know what conclusion I would draw.
3Gs and up use standard LIon batteries. The 3G in fact uses the same battery that is in a Gameboy Advance SP.
I agree user-repleaceable is nice. I also think this is an issue the consumer has to drive. If they continue to drive models without user replaceable batteries, manufacturers will continue to make them, because it is easier and cheaper for them to do so.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
the only way iPod will be killed is if Bill gates and Microsoft buy out Apple. Otherwise, it's not going to happen for a while.
The one feature that has made the iPod what it is, is its original design. Apart from its looks and maybe the interface there is very little else that sets it apart from any similar products. Why is it only Apple that seem to be able to come up with anything original looking?
Apart from maybe the Olympus devices, the competition either play iPod wannabe, or fall back on the standard boring generic small electronic device look. How difficult can it be to hire some of the must be thousands of talented designers around and come up with something interesting?
Incidentally, the same can be said for the mobile phone industry which is devoid of interesting, innovative design. Apple could make a killing there in the same way if they wanted to.
-= This is a self-referential sig =-
Maybe when iTMS Russia opens. Ha.
You can't seriously believe that anyone takes this questionably legal enterprise seriously in the digital music market?
I have always been a fan of the CD MP3 players. You can store a fair amount of music (more then an equally priced flash ram based MP3 player) plus you have the ability to carry multiple CDs, AND usually they run on standard AA batterys. Now if they could improve on these, perhaps one using DVDs you could have a cheap MP3 player capable of playing large amounts of DVDs (although they would be fairly large.) And come to think of it, the battery life on my player is considerably longer then the iPods or any of my flash ram mp3 players. (bought 2 several years ago, after my first CD style was stolen, and did not like them)
Is anyone else completely unenthused at the "opportunity" to watch MPEG4 video or view photos on a 3.something inch VGA screen? Everywhere I look, I see that this is the so-called natural evolution of the portable MP3 player. Really? I like (okay, love/worship) my iPod because it's like this soundtrack to my life. I take it everywhere, never have to worry about it, and I can do other things while listening to it. I would have to actually pay attention to a video player, and the video would be three sucky inches big. And with that fancy-dancy color screen killing my battery life? Count me out. Instead of video capability, how about engineer me up some WiFi with all that R&D $$? Beaming the contents of my iPod to those around me--mmm. Watching a postage stamp-sized feature film? Blech.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Is the compression really that good? That sounds pretty generous for lossless. I think the real reason for apple including that in itunes/QT is that soon we will see full quality lossless music for sale on itms. Remember, the reason that mp3 became popular is that all of a sudden it was easy to trade music over networks. Back then sending lossless copies of albums was difficult because of lack of widespread broadband. Nowadays people are shuffling dvd_r images around by torrents and other P2P nets. Lossless audio doesn't seem that far fetched. The concert taping scene (phish, string cheese incident, dead, etc) already use FLAC for concert audio files. I can't imagine this is very far off at all.
Regarding ipod killers, it is going to be hard for competitors to catch up at this point. Ask a few 15 year olds what kind of mp3 player they want....
music lover since 1969
I've got one of those Virgin/Pulse MP3/FM jobs with 256M; it holds roughly 4 hours of music, uses ordinary batteries, and serves double-duty as a USB drive. Every few days I change out some of the music so I don't get bored listening to the same (randomized) stuff.
The interface is use-it-blindfolded simple once it's set up (which takes all of a minute and a half). 4 inches long by 3/4 inch thick and 1-1/2 inches wide and weighs maybe a couple of ounces, so I can tuck it in any convenient pocket. Bought it discounted for $100.
Why in the world would I want to tie myself into proprietary Apple stuff?
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
Heh, I love that term, yet any of the "iPod killers" have yet to kill the iPod. The iPod has lasted this long, I fail to see its death anytime soon or later.
- Danny
ToKsUri were you on a wireless network, or a public accessable unswitched network?
..it even happened to me when checking /. lolz
8 /06/214521 6
This happened alot @ Defcon12 kinda funny to see people getting pwned.
airpwn
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/0
That's actually pretty funny.
Vibrate...
And these aren't your standard everyday geeks. These are the hardcore ghetto types.
Where do you think they got their iPod's from?
These are the people that have DVD players in their cars for the kids and the kids are watching a movie while they are driving 15 minutes to go out to Dinner!
One of my clients asked my opinion of some Video Walkman type unit recently, after he got an iPod, he was very intrigued with the idea of being able to transfer a DVD or other program/movie to a small device.
I told him I didn't think the technology was "ready" yet for an EZ way to do this. But he was chomping at the bit to find something that would do this for him.
I can't imagine what he planned to do with this, but he appeared to see some practical use from it. Just because *I* don't want a Video iPod doesn't mean there is not a demand for one. I don't want an iPod Mini, but that didn't stop everyone else from wanting it.
How many people are accustomed to watching videos or TV on a 320x240 screen on their computers already?
I like microcars
As soon as the "killer" 4-5GB players come out for ~$250, expect Apple to trump them all with (1) color screens and iPhoto sync (in the works), (2) Bluetooth headphone interface (courtesy of HP), and (3) bigger HDD capacity.
AM/FM tuning and voice note recording seem trivial and probably are on the timeline too... while Ogg support probably is not.
87 searches at http://manyforms.blogspot.com
Out of a few thousand music tracks and a couple of hundred video files, I've come across approximately ONE ogg file. And it wasn't even straight audio- one of the video files I downloaded had an ogg audio track. It was fucking annoying, to put it mildly- I had to use mplayer. :P
Ogg is a lot like PNG was four years ago- fine in concept, but good luck getting the Great Unwashed to give a shit.
Difference is, it's 2004 and png is everwhere (albeit still shittily supported on everything, but support in some capacity is there), and ogg is... well, it isn't.
I've been using iTunes since 1.0- I'll be damned if I'm going to be bothered with a format it doesn't support out of the box!
...where is the support for AAC?
AAC is now the "blessed" format for iTunes and the iPod. I'm sure there are a lot of iPod users out there who, like me, now have a majority of their music collection in AAC. If I was trying to not only woo new customers, but also get iPod users to switch, wouldn't supporting AAC be a good way to do that? If I was looking for a new player, even if I found a non-iPod player that I liked and was cheaper, I would probably stick with the iPod and pay a bit more just for the sake of not having to re-encode my entire collection.
(Of course, I personally have no desire to switch to any non-iPod player, as the only one that even begins to appeal to me is the funky new Olympus red-on-black one.)
What I think will kill the iPod is the damn price. For what's essentially the cross between a hard drive and a Walkman, its insane. The 20 GB one is $300. I got a 250 GB Western Digital HD for $200. Does anyone else see this as a valid point, or am I just talking shit?
Imagine that you're a 12-year-old, and have asked your parents for an iPod for Christmas (or Hanukkah or Quanza or Festivus or whatever other gift-giving celebration you might be celebrating this holiday season). Why? Because it's the accessory all of the cool kids at school are carrying around.
The big day come around, and you eagerly start ripping the wrapping paper off a promising shaped/sized box, only to find one of these. Or one of these. Or one of these. Or even one of these. Or perhaps worst of all, one of these.
You wanted an iPod, only to get an iPod wanna-be. Maybe the sales guy told your parents this one was "better", or maybe your parents saw this one had a lower price tag and bought it to save a few bucks. Perfectly good reasons for an adult -- but not for our hypothetical 12 year-old who wanted an iPod like the cool kids at school.
Particularly if the wanna-be device is going to get you osteracized from your peer group for carrying around a poor fascimile of the iPod.
That's the real problem with most of these supposed "iPod killers" -- they try too hard to look like the iPod, but without the major items that make the iPod cool.
I can't forsee any of these devices "killing" the iPod. I can't even see any of them dealing a mortal wound. Or a minor flesh wound. Or even a nick. None of these devices has the cool of the iPod brand, and many of them look like poor, el-cheapo knockoffs.
(I mean come on guys -- if you want to take on the iPod, try designing something slick, sleek, and unique -- stop trying to copy the look and feel of the iPod).
Yaz.
Supporting Ogg Vorbis is completely free: vendors don't have to sign any onerous license or hand over any money. Most people don't really care about formats, but they do want a player that can play everything they load on to it.
I expect Apple will add Ogg support at some time in the near future, but they won't make a big thing about it (because they'd rather you'd use the DRM-crippled iTunes format). It'll just work.
Why hasn't the marketing division of any of these companies spent more time on making there products "cool." You don't want to just compare everything to the ipod, like saying it has more storage, is lighter, or cooler looking because you're still admitting that the iPod is the gold standard and you are just trying to catch up.
Nobody wants some catch up product, they want the iPod. Companies should concentrate on making the best products possible and then pretend like the iPod doesn't exist at all and that everyone needs to have their player.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
It's simple. iPod has struck the ultimate balance of features, portability and usability. All the other guys are trying hard to match this balance, but they infallibly run into the next problem:
Brand. Apple was first to market with the best player, worked very hard on developing a killer brand. This brand nearly touts the iPod as fashion statement, for cool, hip people. All the kids want it:
Friday night my Girlfriend and I were eating at Taiko, a Japanese restaurant right by our favorite cineplex. A lady and her daughter sat by us. At some point in their conversation, the mom asked the daughter what she wanted for christmas. She almost right-away blurted "an iPod!". The ensuing dialog had quotes such as "all the other kids have it or want one".
The other interesting thing is that on one hand you have the iPod, and on the other hand you have "everything else that's trying to beat it". That pretty-much gives everything else an aura of "second-rate items". Kids KNOW THIS. For that one time of the year where parents seek to buy that special thing for their rotten little brats, you can bet your ass they ain't guna go for "second-rate".
iPod dollars aren't going anywhere. Sorry to burst yet another sensationalist-headline-seeking online mag's bubble.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
I've even heard that a $400 Ipod costs about $12 to manufacture... can anyone confirm this?
Well, speaking as an Apple shareholder, the only thing I can say about that is: I WISH!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
This article and discussion is pretty crazy;
where is the mention of iriver's great mp3 players. Slightly cheaper than ipod, not as locked in to itunes or other commercial ventures, but full ogg support.
User interface is kind of clunky, but that is more than made up by 1)its recording capability and 2)the fact it is a fAT 32 device (which can be recognized on linux and any platform) and doesn't require intermediary software.
I bought an iriver ihp-140 in january for 450. Now it's down to 350$. By christmas it will be down to $300.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
When did your order get "sent to vendor"? I'm trying to figure out when mine will arrive...
With the new IPOD shown having a color screen, and ability to view photos and stuff. Still puts the Ipod on top. Just wishing I would have got an Ipod instead of the crappy RCA lyra that seems to be dying on me.
Great! I can always count of Slashdot for the great mom insults :)
Exactly the group of people who are likely to go out and buy an ipod in the first place...
I know I'm in the minority, but most of my music is in ogg format these days. Most people couldn't care less about why I use ogg*, but I'm sure there's a sizeable minority that agrees with me.
There's really not much reason to not support ogg unless
-jim
*I don't like the idea of patent-weilding middle men dictating what I can and can't do with my own bits**. Mp3 licensing, as far as I understand, is farily inexpensive, but it's still a big hurdle for open source developers. A standard Fedora install comes with ogg support, but no mp3 support.
**Not to be confused with the copyright-weilding middle men at the RIAA, who would like to control access to intellectual property through a combination of legal means and proprietary formats. Beware of middle men who don't add value to a transaction!
I have an ihp-120. It feels solid (unlike the karma, which feels cheap), has a great screen and an impressive battery life. It has an optical input and an internal microphone to record mp3 or wav, FM radio and plays Ogg. It sounds GREAT and has no problems. It costs less than an iPod and brings many more accesories out of the box: case, ext mic, a backlit, intuitive remote control which can control everything, and most cables you'll ever want. You'll save a lot of money on that; and you can't help loving the remote. I would definitely recomend this over any other player out there.
it's called IRIVER, BITCH! ogg vorbis support, fm radio built in, builtin microphone, optical line in/out normal line in/out http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H140
- world's best music player
http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H340
- world's best music player, with even MORE features!adds color screen, ability to view images, and download from cameras, and recording from fm radio!
Just look at how new entrants are dancing around the 1GB mark. There isn't one player (that I have seen) that supports over 1GB that costs less than $199. They keep offering larger players for one reason: it doesn't cost any more. The companies want the base price for any "real" players (not the cheapo 256MB players) to be $199, and it looks like for at least the foreseeable future, it will remain that way. The base price will stay at $199, and the storage space will simply increase.
I'm not willing to spend $199 on a gadget that I will only get limited use out of. MP3 players are still a niche market, and until the cost goes down, rather than simply the space increasing, they will stay that way. Of course, with our wonderful capitalist system, someone will eventually understand this concept, and they will get a rather large jump on the market. ;)
Nothing right now can compete with an ipod so just get that on herer eferer =9505348/>
<URL:http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?
lol! ok, pretty good man. Wrong, but good.
...vibrate.
iPod is probably one of, if not the, most ovr-hyp'd products to hit the shelves in years; I mean frkn years.
Hopefully, more competition, even if it's weak, can bring the iPod price down.
Hell, I would have more then one if the thing wasn't so much $$! (Two, iPods with accessories = one new apple computer)
What more people would care about is gapless MP3 playback support. Not being able to play albums correctly is not good.
Of course, this will only become a real issue when more players than just the Rio Karma actually support gapless. Only then will the average consumer realise he's missing something.
And no, I DON'T SHUFFLE.
I have seen the new Olympus player and it is a junker. Unlike the intuitive interface of the ipod with a circular motion, this junker has an up and down slider and to slide to the next song takes one movement. to slide 150 songs takes 150 slides. It sucks.
Mr. AC, perhaps you didn't read the entire thread, all my replies, but I *own* 8 apple computers, have them right here in my home. I am an apple owner since the late 80's. I am obviously not "jealous of people who are able and willing to buy Apple's products." I am criticalof a device that is way over priced. But... if folks want to spend it, they can go right ahead. When and if apple gets real on the price for such a device and adds a few more practical features, I would consider it, but not at this point, I am not going to drop probably 300$ of a 400$ price tag on marketing hype. Perhaps you are embarassed now because you got suckered? No matter, people can purchase what they want,this or consumerism I will not dispute, companies charge what the market will bear of course, in fact, people noticed that they could compete, a LOT of companies noticed,and the whole point of the article was the explosion of alternatives, most of them a lot cheaper, and I would wager within another year or so they will be feature for feature as good or better as this particular apple product,or better, and a lot cheaper, because it's technically and economically possible to do so, right now, and a lot more people than me have noticed the too-obvious high price compared to this "miracle of miniaturization", which is really not all that miraculous any more, it is mundane in 2004. Two years ago it was slick, last year it was cool, now it is part of the herd. Granted, still a big part of the herd, but it is having stiffer and stiffer competition, as evidence the mini. they saw the need for a lower priced product,and I predict they will follow that tend based on outside marketing pressure. With their computers they are content for a niche market, with the ipod they decided to take on the world, with everyone as a potential customer, so this will be unsual for them in that sense, it's a completely different market and once past the honeymoon phase, which they are at now, they will be forced to compete. That means drop prices and add features.
Which brings me to this question: I gave a speed-read through the IPod articles (I and II), and was disappointed by the lack of info. What I would REALLY like in a 1 GB MP3 player, besides support for Ogg (which I initially didn't believe could, or will, or should, work on a portable), is one that is OS agnostic (i.e. installation consists of hooking up said USB or FireWire cable, OS sees device as hard drive, lock and load songs, unplug, play). Now that type of information would get me excited.
If Apple really does have a new 60gb iPod waiting with photo support (http://thinksecret.com/news/0410photoipod.html)
Um, you could have just used a link to Apple's site, since the iPod Photo was already announced like a week ago.
For me, the iPod-killer would be a Palm Tungsten-type PDA with a hard drive. Give me a Tungsten T|E ($200) combined with a 20GB iPod/HD ($300) for $500, and I'll buy it in a second. Even better would be if you could convince Apple to develop a PalmOS version of iTunes. I really don't understand why this hasn't happened yet. Rip off the unnecessary plastic bits you wouldn't need once you put the two items together, and it wouldn't even be that big! The result would a) be able to play video (new Palm units do that without issue), b) be able to review photos, with a flash memory slot to take stuff directly from memory cards, c) be able to play MP3s, Ogg, AAC, whatever you want through first and third-party software. Why does this not exist yet??? tek.
* The iRiver device I did buy is a USB2 mass storage device which can play media off its hard drive. I can transfer music on and off as I please. Last time I looked at an iPod it didn't do that.
* The iRiver device I did buy has TOSLink input and output.
* Ogg support. I'm very happy with the quality I'm getting from it.
* Built-in FM tuner. I think you have to get an accessory for the iPod?
* Price
* iPod STILL aren't available in 60GB or higher capacity???