I've just gotten done reading the initial reaction of trolls and jokes about this.
Ukraine does have quality engineers, does have better economics and less corruption than other CIS countries, and has been a considerable supporter of US interests (e.g., they dropped one of the highest levels of troops into Iraq for support. Even though, honestly, a country like that couldn't afford large military action, they did so anyway and I might add- with a level of political push considerably lower than others.)
They are a society with European heritage, a large number of the population understands English, German, French, Italian, etc.) and for most Americans travelling to a typical "outsource" destination, Ukraine is both a familiar and not-so-culture-shocking destination (Compared, say, to China or India, for most Americans)
I cannot say they don't have drawbacks, but I've researched the area heavilly and found that the people are much like the USA glory days -- preferring "Handles" and such, for fun mostly, and their display of individual pride. Here in old Silicon Valley, I'm corporate Borg. Getting sick of it.
The organized crime aspects, well, I've had many discussions about that as well-- software isn't really their target, though. In most cases, its usually "competition" that drives the hostilities, and likewise, the vast majority of such cases are non-violent... just annoying (phone turned off, electricity cut, etc.) Like anywhere in the world, if you don't want trouble, don't start trouble. Respect goes a long way in those cultures.
Personally, I'd jump at the chance to go to Ukraine myself. I think it would be rewarding and fun to help cultivate not only the economic flow, but to work with the people there.
For those who are more politically inclined about how the Ukrainian air is going, the present Presidential Elections in Ukraine are showing a huge outpouring of support for the new candidate that wishes to bring Ukraine into the EEC.
There aren't that many CIS countries that can say they are trying quite as hard to embrace the Westernized world by cooperation and with as little grandstanding as Ukraine is doing.
Keep in mind, outsourced security firms aren't domestically regulated like banks or other groups. If you can't "sue", "arrest" or otherwise influence the people watching you, then why give them the keys?
Outsourcing security seems like a good paradigm at first, but trust is earned. Here, we have serious certifications (clearances, CISSP, credit ratings, background checks, bonding, etc.) and there's a definite degree of employer influence over their employees.
Maybe its just me, but whenever someone I don't know says, "Trust me! C'mon, take a chance, live a little, all the cool CEOs are doing it" I'd conclude right away that these guys are going to ruin me. Mostly because, up until now, "TRUST ME" hasn't been too much of a necessity in outsourcing.
Anyway, outsourcing security could be one of the next "Great" phishing scams, after all -- why go for the salad when someone can go for the five course meal.
*sighs* Okay, so all this "homeland security for terrorists" stuff has developed a critical and highly expensive need for us jamming their SATELLITES?
Ya know, I'm not really any form of conspiracy theorist, but when I do see something capable of blocking communications by the government on domestic ground, I want to go re-read the Constitution. The only certainty about such a thing was that it was funded for a purpose, so would someone explain to me what a valid purpose for such a thing would be?
Okay, maybe HURD isn't where we all want it, that is -- on our desktops and running everything... BUT...
Lets not forget, HURD is FSF/GNU, and they've proven time and time again that they are presistant, don't rush to complete their vision, and go the extra distance on a lot of things.
If HURD achieves both the standards and the quality of forethought that all the other FSF/GNU code that has been released so far, then it will doubtlessly be a marvel of OS technology. It has a tall order to fill, though, and honestly -- it there's no rush to see it pushed into production, then I'd let the politics play themselves out. However, it *is* the goal of the FSF. How it finally winds up-- well-- I'm anticipating to see like everyone else, but I've become a believer in the FSF's patience, skills, and collective vision.
"Let them eat cake."
You know, its one thing to lose a lawsuit, its another thing to say you'll make up for it by helping out the public interest that are normally have hard times finding appropriate funds during recessions or have to consider the logistics of their operation sometimes before inventory, or attaining their desired goals of education.
This act could have been a reasonable one, there are a tremendous number of very enlightening recordings such as historical e-books, instructional materials, etc. that would have done well to improve the RIAA's claim recipients (whom, I might add, weren't the lawyers settings the case.) The "poor recording artists" that RIAA claims to protect the interest of who could have benefitted from this are countless.
Instead, they've used the educational system as a junkyard, snubbed their noses at the recording artists whom the value of their contribution could have been recognized and appreciated. And because they are being used as a junkyard, the task of sorting through all these inappropriate CDs and disposing of them are left in the hands of people who have enough troubles already.
Its like giving beggars video game tokens or something, and they'll probably be snapped at by the RIAA for being ingrates.
I'm from Pueblo, Colorado, one of the few steel towns left in the good old USA. I watched as the industry collapsed over, and over, and over... Foreign steel was simply cheaper, labor cheaper, and resources abundant elsewhere.
I just got done reading claims that "eventually equilibrium" will be restored, it didn't happen the people's lifetime here, and it probably won't happen to the IT industry either. However, the side effects were clear -- people lost their pensions as the company became refocused over and over, bought out, and otherwise spiraled downhill.
All the American companies that are outsourcing should use CF&I (Oregon Steel) as a possible example of how the mighty falls - its so predictable -- first its jobs, then its an industry, and eventually, its everything that supports that industry as well.
I have been pondering solutions to all of this, but I'm sure management have heart attacks.
First, I feel that all software produced foreignly should pay the appropriate customs taxes. It is, after all, a foreign made product.
Second, I think its fair to say that foreign outsourcing firms should be playing by the same standards as here -- that is -- no pirated software and valid redistribution licenses. If appropriate licenses aren't given at customs, the software isn't permitted to enter the country.
I think these solutions are fair. The money collected could definitely be used for domestic issues, and it wouldn't necessarily upset any particular political party.
Slashdot Mirror
I've just gotten done reading the initial reaction of trolls and jokes about this.
Ukraine does have quality engineers, does have better economics and less corruption than other CIS countries, and has been a considerable supporter of US interests (e.g., they dropped one of the highest levels of troops into Iraq for support. Even though, honestly, a country like that couldn't afford large military action, they did so anyway and I might add- with a level of political push considerably lower than others.)
They are a society with European heritage, a large number of the population understands English, German, French, Italian, etc.) and for most Americans travelling to a typical "outsource" destination, Ukraine is both a familiar and not-so-culture-shocking destination (Compared, say, to China or India, for most Americans)
I cannot say they don't have drawbacks, but I've researched the area heavilly and found that the people are much like the USA glory days -- preferring "Handles" and such, for fun mostly, and their display of individual pride. Here in old Silicon Valley, I'm corporate Borg. Getting sick of it.
The organized crime aspects, well, I've had many discussions about that as well-- software isn't really their target, though. In most cases, its usually "competition" that drives the hostilities, and likewise, the vast majority of such cases are non-violent... just annoying (phone turned off, electricity cut, etc.) Like anywhere in the world, if you don't want trouble, don't start trouble. Respect goes a long way in those cultures.
Personally, I'd jump at the chance to go to Ukraine myself. I think it would be rewarding and fun to help cultivate not only the economic flow, but to work with the people there.
For those who are more politically inclined about how the Ukrainian air is going, the present Presidential Elections in Ukraine are showing a huge outpouring of support for the new candidate that wishes to bring Ukraine into the EEC.
There aren't that many CIS countries that can say they are trying quite as hard to embrace the Westernized world by cooperation and with as little grandstanding as Ukraine is doing.
Anyway, they aren't so bad: Wikkkipedia on Ukraine and they can ROCK too!
Peace out. :)
Keep in mind, outsourced security firms aren't domestically regulated like banks or other groups. If you can't "sue", "arrest" or otherwise influence the people watching you, then why give them the keys?
Outsourcing security seems like a good paradigm at first, but trust is earned. Here, we have serious certifications (clearances, CISSP, credit ratings, background checks, bonding, etc.) and there's a definite degree of employer influence over their employees.
Maybe its just me, but whenever someone I don't know says, "Trust me! C'mon, take a chance, live a little, all the cool CEOs are doing it" I'd conclude right away that these guys are going to ruin me. Mostly because, up until now, "TRUST ME" hasn't been too much of a necessity in outsourcing.
Anyway, outsourcing security could be one of the next "Great" phishing scams, after all -- why go for the salad when someone can go for the five course meal.
*sighs* Okay, so all this "homeland security for terrorists" stuff has developed a critical and highly expensive need for us jamming their SATELLITES?
Ya know, I'm not really any form of conspiracy theorist, but when I do see something capable of blocking communications by the government on domestic ground, I want to go re-read the Constitution. The only certainty about such a thing was that it was funded for a purpose, so would someone explain to me what a valid purpose for such a thing would be?
"Homo Erectus"? "Hobbits and Volcano"? Komodo dragon and "dwarf elephant" (sounds like a South Park episode!)
Sometimes I just can't begin to even believe this stuff, even if it is mirrored on all the "credible" sites.
Pttttttttt.....
Okay, maybe HURD isn't where we all want it, that is -- on our desktops and running everything... BUT...
Lets not forget, HURD is FSF/GNU, and they've proven time and time again that they are presistant, don't rush to complete their vision, and go the extra distance on a lot of things.
If HURD achieves both the standards and the quality of forethought that all the other FSF/GNU code that has been released so far, then it will doubtlessly be a marvel of OS technology. It has a tall order to fill, though, and honestly -- it there's no rush to see it pushed into production, then I'd let the politics play themselves out. However, it *is* the goal of the FSF. How it finally winds up-- well-- I'm anticipating to see like everyone else, but I've become a believer in the FSF's patience, skills, and collective vision.
"Let them eat cake." You know, its one thing to lose a lawsuit, its another thing to say you'll make up for it by helping out the public interest that are normally have hard times finding appropriate funds during recessions or have to consider the logistics of their operation sometimes before inventory, or attaining their desired goals of education. This act could have been a reasonable one, there are a tremendous number of very enlightening recordings such as historical e-books, instructional materials, etc. that would have done well to improve the RIAA's claim recipients (whom, I might add, weren't the lawyers settings the case.) The "poor recording artists" that RIAA claims to protect the interest of who could have benefitted from this are countless. Instead, they've used the educational system as a junkyard, snubbed their noses at the recording artists whom the value of their contribution could have been recognized and appreciated. And because they are being used as a junkyard, the task of sorting through all these inappropriate CDs and disposing of them are left in the hands of people who have enough troubles already. Its like giving beggars video game tokens or something, and they'll probably be snapped at by the RIAA for being ingrates.
I'm from Pueblo, Colorado, one of the few steel towns left in the good old USA. I watched as the industry collapsed over, and over, and over... Foreign steel was simply cheaper, labor cheaper, and resources abundant elsewhere. I just got done reading claims that "eventually equilibrium" will be restored, it didn't happen the people's lifetime here, and it probably won't happen to the IT industry either. However, the side effects were clear -- people lost their pensions as the company became refocused over and over, bought out, and otherwise spiraled downhill. All the American companies that are outsourcing should use CF&I (Oregon Steel) as a possible example of how the mighty falls - its so predictable -- first its jobs, then its an industry, and eventually, its everything that supports that industry as well. I have been pondering solutions to all of this, but I'm sure management have heart attacks. First, I feel that all software produced foreignly should pay the appropriate customs taxes. It is, after all, a foreign made product. Second, I think its fair to say that foreign outsourcing firms should be playing by the same standards as here -- that is -- no pirated software and valid redistribution licenses. If appropriate licenses aren't given at customs, the software isn't permitted to enter the country. I think these solutions are fair. The money collected could definitely be used for domestic issues, and it wouldn't necessarily upset any particular political party.