A) First, all the gee-wiz features in MacOS-X and the new Linux WMs (except EVAS) are software accelerated. THAT'S slow.
No. KDE `gee whiz' (which I read as: usability - I like to be albe to read letters on screen - YMMV) done in XRender, which is hardware accelerated in almost every instance. GNOME 2.0 will also do a whole bunch of cute XRender stuff.
EVAS is something two people will use precisely because it uses a nonstandard method of rendering graphics that sends crap down the wire.
Maintaining information 2 places (links in/etc/init.d/rcX.d and also in rc.config) is bad. very very bad.
Last time I looked, SuSE violated the FHS by using/sbin/init.d and having the distribution install software into/opt.
Has this changed, because its bloody annoying having SuSE users complain nothing works on their systems because SuSE can't be bothered following standards.
Really? At Linux.conf.au I asked a member of the XFree86 team who'd just finished a taslk what chipset he'd recommend for mobile users. His response was the ATI Rage Mobility (16Mb model). Open Source drivers, the all important XVideo support, and good performance (better than the same card under Windows) was the absis for his decision.
The requirement that all Qt-using programs either be GPLed or else developed with a license from Troll Tech, and that all KDE-using programs be GPLed, is still an issue for Sun. Gnome lets proprietary programs be developed, and KDE does not.
Sigh. 3rd party developers of proprietary software ARE NOT REQUIRED AND HAVE NOT BEEN REQUIRED FOR A VERY LONG TIME to purchase licenses for the GPLed QT for Unix. If they wish to develop for Windows or OSX or other platforms they do. Seeing as GTK for both this platforms is in extreme-alpha stage, I doubt this is going to be much of a problem.
Re:I'll get hammered, but Internet Explorer 6 is o
on
KOffice 1.1 Rolls Out
·
· Score: 2
Well, right now Slashdot thinks my Mozilla web browser is really IE 5.5. It's pretty hard to say how many people like me there are.
I wouldn't think many - using IE as a user agent indicates to content producers you use IE. If everyone using Netscape, Mozilla, Koffice, etc used IE as a user agent, nobody would ever bother testing against anything else, and IE will have won the web forever. If you need a user agent that will get you everywhere, pick Netscape 4.7x on Win98.
...unless they specifically mean they can play the Sorenson codec.
They can. Read the article.
Most of the ASF et. al. support comes from using the Windows binary codecs...
Until FFMPEG came along, or more importantly, Xine 0.51, which plays MSMPEG and DivX encoded AVIs just fine, natively. Not sure about ASFs - should be pretty triviual to do, but I haven't texted it yet.
Oh, and if you want Xine with the ability to play the DVD movies you paid for, you should get the packages from here.
Qmail and Postfix are stronger for a variety of reasons. As well as a more modular design, both are designed and configured for modern environments - no 300k configuration file full of UUCP / X400 configuration stuff people won't use. More things to configure mean more things to misconfigure and go wrong. Sendmail also doesn't support maildir AFAIK.
Not to mention violating Unix philosophy: text should be a common interface. Sure apps like LDAP and RPM use databases to keep their configuration data in (and simply allow interaction via text), but this is for performance reasons rather than legacy compatibility (i.e, just that should have been disposed of or made optional some time ago).
OpenGL IS the API for gaming consoles. Its what the PS2, N64, Dreamcast and PSOne use. Its also what the MacOS, Unix, and every Windows CAD program in existence uses.
So yeah, I think its got cross platform down pat.:)
3. 98% of the packages included with Red Hat are Open Source. Netscape 4 (the main non Open Source one) won't be included in the next release. Pine is still there, IIRC.
4. Mandrake was derives from Red Hat (2 words). Not Red Hat from Mandrake. Tho it harly matters, Mandrake's now quite distinct from Red Hat.
5. Free Software has a specific meaning. Freedom is an english world which also a well defined meaning and which is not exclusively to do with Free Softare. People use the BSD license precisely because is allows large corporattions (and small corporations, and small proprietary limited companies) the freedom to use the software as they see fit.
And no, I don't use BSD or particularly like the BSD license. But they're my own personal opinions and I present them as such, not as `facts'.
It's never really worked, and it doesn't work with half of the drivers currently out there
Then that's the fault of the drivers. What is broken is not being able to consistently address hot pluggable hardware, and almost every other Unix has a DevFS-like system (at least Solaris, OSX, and FreebSD IIRC) they seem to have a fairly proven track record or working in a real world environment.
Don't live in the US, but for those who do here's the contact details for Poeteu Daily News and Sun. Its prolly being prosecuted by federal organizations but getting PDNS to ask the government to to persue the case would be a good start.
I also run a system with NTFS (Windows 2000), and after compiling the Linux kernel under Visual C++ (which was an effort in itself) and copying it over C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\NTOSKRNL.EXE, my machine won't even boot anymore.
Do you have anything to back that statement up? If its just your own experience, my own experience (as part of the Linux Gamers League has been that a low of the dual booting gamer folk who would (unforunatety) happily pirate a Windows game *buy* every title from Loki they can, because they know if they don't, Loki wouldn't exist and their favourite platform would die. A;lot of new Linux users are the former Windows poer users / LAN party types, and want an extremely customizable environment to do their work in and play Tribes 2 and Urban Terror in it. The Windows Warez Weenie community doesn't care much abotu ethics, whereas the Linux community does, and Linuxgamers generally end up being more like your typical young Linux user than your average Windows Pirate gamer type.
Looking over Soldier of Fortune, Quake 3, Descent 3, Myth II, Quake II, Unreal TYournament, Kingpin, and Tribes 2 (all gakmes wghich run on Linux) on my own shelf, compared to System Shock 22 (which runs under some versions of Windows) I'd happily say that I'm generally buying more Linux games than Windows games too.
Rather, I'd say the chicken and egg problem with stores carrying Loki games is a big problem for Loki. People won't buy games till they can get them from a store, stores won't stock games until they know people will buy them. A lot of gamers are below 18 and don't have credit cards. Solution:
1. Buy them from a gaming store that takes money orders (most do)
2. Arrange with your local LUG for monthly purchases of hear from a Linux company to be sold after meeting. My local Lug, Linux Users or Victoria, has 1200 members and get a stack of goods from Everything Linux sold to us at the end of each meeting (the LUG gets a portion of the proceeds).
Hpowever, I'm not giving up on Loki yet and you shouldn't either. next meeting there will be a copy of Rune (a bloody awesome Tombraider style viking adventure game) waiting on the Everything Linux stable for me, and me with $AU90 to pay for it.
Re:Work with the GNOME people (and vice versa)
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 2
Oops, thought you meant/usr/share/applnk (what KDE uses)./me gets educated:)
Its great this directory exists - why then doesn't Red Hat use it more? Every release up to the 7.2 beta is still sticking GNOME programs in their own seperate submenu within KDE.
Re:Work with the GNOME people (and vice versa)
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 2
with a sane setup, you can get an application into both menus at the same time (e.g. the/etc/X11/applnk menu on Red Hat Linux)
Yes I can. I still think its broken:
1. End users not have to need to do work to have menus that are logical (sorting apps by toolkit is illogical). All it takes is for distro packagers to have to use a symlink.
2. Users shouldn't have to maintain 2 redundant sets of the same information.
3. Packagers shouldn't have to put something into two menus, create 2 sets of icons, etc
It is bad anough to make it unusable. Try Ksysguard, Kmenuedit, or the kde file associations dialog box with the GNOME apps in your menus - the icons don't resize, so you've got a combination of 16 x 16 and 48 x 48 icons that makes the creen almost unreadable. KDE 2.2 new highlight-mouseover effect also seems to fail on some GNOME icons...
PS bero; Like your work. The new version of RPM required by KDE 2.2 requires a new version of Glibc that doesn't seem to exist in the non KDE packages on the mirrors.
Re:Good to see desktop enviroments live and well
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
err, precisely when did "MS" say linux on the desktop was dead? References please.
In their Linux Myths article they said `Linux on the desktop makes absolutely no sense'. I doubt Microsoft ever acknowledged that Linux on the desktop was ever alive, much less previously living but now dead.
Work with the GNOME people (and vice versa)
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
My suggestion: work closer with GNOME (and vice versa. Its entirely possib;le to have 2 seperate projects without the current incompatibility and lack of standards between the two.
Users don't pick their apps based on toolkit. They pick them based on quality. For almost all users, that's going to be a mix of KDE and GNOME apps.
Create a standard for:
* Component models. Really. We know its hard to agree on, but it must be done.
* File types - > application mapping database (some people call these MIME types).
* Launcher menus. Application developers and end users are tired of having to add new apps Mozilla to two different sets of menus. Nobody says `I want a QT app...oh, and by the way, can it be a web browser'?. They say `I want a web browser'. They don't care about toolkits and neither should the desktop menus.
* Panel applets.
* Icons. GNOME uses 48 x 48. KDE uses various sizes (which is probably a better way to do it - 48 x 28 icons do notRe:some notes not look pretty). Have a kind word to the GNOME folk and suggest they use the same approach as KDE.
* Package deployment. I'd love to download KDE via Ximian's Red Carpet, or a KDE interface for the same.
Recompiling a kernel is unnecessary for desktop users. The default kernel comes with most drivers they'd need in low overhead modular form and if you don't like it, run `up2date' (KMenu -> System -> Update) and install any new ones (yes, up to date can now do kernel upgrades).
Linux printing Pantone colours to that Winprinter over there
WinPrinter? The one which breaks down every five days under Windows? Here's an idea: rather than using a hundred dollar desktop printer designed for a single user who doesn't print often, lets act like very other business in the world and use large reliable laser printers (invariably HP Laserjet models). I've never found one which doesn't work under Linux.
Oh...and don't forget those TPC coversheets! If I knew what these were (Transaction Processing Council?) I'd respond.
When you've figured out how to make Linux print as well as Windows, go print yourself out a dozen copies.
Use a business printer rather a home one. But if its an emergency, add a printser shared from a Windows PC to your Linux box via printconf.
Most large corporate environments would have software purchasing guideliens that forbod the purchase or implementation fo any software which requires administrator priveliges for end users.
And your problems would be the same for Linux if your badly written app required root priveliges to run.
All this is to say, where are the facts that support your statement?
I didn't make the initial statement, but I will respond. All my GNOME systems are up to date as of today.
The GNOME 1.4 release significantly diminshed speed and functionality to achieve only a baic file manager / web browser type app. Its very unusual that someone would create a new version that does LESS things than then old did, but I still can't create a new application launcher from the desktop or edit an existing one as with KDE
* The current GNOME control center (yes there's a new one on the way, no it isn't here yet) is confusign with its `test' `OK' implementation. This isn't consistent with many other GNOME apps
* 48 x 48 icons that are `supposed to look good' at 20 x 20 often don't. One size does not fit all.
* AFAICT there's no MacOS / Windows / KDE type style guide which can be used to define consistency between applications
* Defining a filetype -> program mapping is difficult in KDE but especially more so in GNOME.
* GNOME still has many programmerisms within it. Sawfish and GNOME might be seperate apps but from and end user viewpoint they should work seamlessly. Having a `meta' button under the GNOMECC which only defines options avaliable for the Sawfish branch is one such programmerism. And what does `meta' mean to a non tech?
Yeah, gotta hate those commercial apps, like Red Hat Linux and Zope...
I believe the word you're loooking for is closed source, proprietary or non-free. Many Open Source projects are commercial in nature and both the FSF and OSI and any dictionary (combined with some logic) will tell you that whether soemthing is commercial or not has no bearing on whether it is Open Source or Free Software.
Slashdot Mirror
Seriously, are we approaching the day that windows will cost more than the computer it runs on for most people?
Brand new current model imac - $AU 1800
MS Office:Mac - $AU 950
Its nearly already the case with MS Office.
A) First, all the gee-wiz features in MacOS-X and the new Linux WMs (except EVAS) are software accelerated. THAT'S slow.
No. KDE `gee whiz' (which I read as: usability - I like to be albe to read letters on screen - YMMV) done in XRender, which is hardware accelerated in almost every instance. GNOME 2.0 will also do a whole bunch of cute XRender stuff.
EVAS is something two people will use precisely because it uses a nonstandard method of rendering graphics that sends crap down the wire.
Sorry, I misunderstood your original statement. I was wrong, you were right, and I DON'T NEED TO YELL.
Thanks for a polite response.
Mike
Maintaining information 2 places (links in /etc/init.d/rcX.d and also in rc.config) is bad. very very bad.
/sbin/init.d and having the distribution install software into /opt.
Last time I looked, SuSE violated the FHS by using
Has this changed, because its bloody annoying having SuSE users complain nothing works on their systems because SuSE can't be bothered following standards.
Really? At Linux.conf.au I asked a member of the XFree86 team who'd just finished a taslk what chipset he'd recommend for mobile users. His response was the ATI Rage Mobility (16Mb model). Open Source drivers, the all important XVideo support, and good performance (better than the same card under Windows) was the absis for his decision.
If that's true, then these don't really sound like good reasons at all. Surely there must be _somebody_ who is using Solaris x86 for real work?
We are. We need a high performance NFS server on cheap (ish) Intel hardware. Linux currently can't do it. Solaris can.
The requirement that all Qt-using programs either be GPLed or else developed with a license from Troll Tech, and that all KDE-using programs be GPLed, is still an issue for Sun. Gnome lets proprietary programs be developed, and KDE does not.
You are lying. Do some research and discover why
Sigh. 3rd party developers of proprietary software ARE NOT REQUIRED AND HAVE NOT BEEN REQUIRED FOR A VERY LONG TIME to purchase licenses for the GPLed QT for Unix. If they wish to develop for Windows or OSX or other platforms they do. Seeing as GTK for both this platforms is in extreme-alpha stage, I doubt this is going to be much of a problem.
Well, right now Slashdot thinks my Mozilla web browser is really IE 5.5. It's pretty hard to say how many people like me there are.
I wouldn't think many - using IE as a user agent indicates to content producers you use IE. If everyone using Netscape, Mozilla, Koffice, etc used IE as a user agent, nobody would ever bother testing against anything else, and IE will have won the web forever. If you need a user agent that will get you everywhere, pick Netscape 4.7x on Win98.
Or if its nto a problem, don't change it at all.
...unless they specifically mean they can play the Sorenson codec.
They can. Read the article.
Most of the ASF et. al. support comes from using the Windows binary codecs...
Until FFMPEG came along, or more importantly, Xine 0.51, which plays MSMPEG and DivX encoded AVIs just fine, natively. Not sure about ASFs - should be pretty triviual to do, but I haven't texted it yet.
Oh, and if you want Xine with the ability to play the DVD movies you paid for, you should get the packages from here.
Qmail and Postfix are stronger for a variety of reasons. As well as a more modular design, both are designed and configured for modern environments - no 300k configuration file full of UUCP / X400 configuration stuff people won't use. More things to configure mean more things to misconfigure and go wrong. Sendmail also doesn't support maildir AFAIK.
Not to mention violating Unix philosophy: text should be a common interface. Sure apps like LDAP and RPM use databases to keep their configuration data in (and simply allow interaction via text), but this is for performance reasons rather than legacy compatibility (i.e, just that should have been disposed of or made optional some time ago).
OpenGL IS the API for gaming consoles. Its what the PS2, N64, Dreamcast and PSOne use. Its also what the MacOS, Unix, and every Windows CAD program in existence uses.
:)
So yeah, I think its got cross platform down pat.
1. RMS talks about Free Software, not Open Source
2. ESR talks about Open Source.
3. 98% of the packages included with Red Hat are Open Source. Netscape 4 (the main non Open Source one) won't be included in the next release. Pine is still there, IIRC.
4. Mandrake was derives from Red Hat (2 words). Not Red Hat from Mandrake. Tho it harly matters, Mandrake's now quite distinct from Red Hat.
5. Free Software has a specific meaning. Freedom is an english world which also a well defined meaning and which is not exclusively to do with Free Softare. People use the BSD license precisely because is allows large corporattions (and small corporations, and small proprietary limited companies) the freedom to use the software as they see fit.
And no, I don't use BSD or particularly like the BSD license. But they're my own personal opinions and I present them as such, not as `facts'.
It's never really worked, and it doesn't work with half of the drivers currently out there
Then that's the fault of the drivers. What is broken is not being able to consistently address hot pluggable hardware, and almost every other Unix has a DevFS-like system (at least Solaris, OSX, and FreebSD IIRC) they seem to have a fairly proven track record or working in a real world environment.
Don't live in the US, but for those who do here's the contact details for Poeteu Daily News and Sun. Its prolly being prosecuted by federal organizations but getting PDNS to ask the government to to persue the case would be a good start.
No, its true! Linux doesn't work!
I also run a system with NTFS (Windows 2000), and after compiling the Linux kernel under Visual C++ (which was an effort in itself) and copying it over C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\NTOSKRNL.EXE, my machine won't even boot anymore.
Goddamned Linux... *grumble grumble*
Do you have anything to back that statement up? If its just your own experience, my own experience (as part of the Linux Gamers League has been that a low of the dual booting gamer folk who would (unforunatety) happily pirate a Windows game *buy* every title from Loki they can, because they know if they don't, Loki wouldn't exist and their favourite platform would die. A ;lot of new Linux users are the former Windows poer users / LAN party types, and want an extremely customizable environment to do their work in and play Tribes 2 and Urban Terror in it. The Windows Warez Weenie community doesn't care much abotu ethics, whereas the Linux community does, and Linuxgamers generally end up being more like your typical young Linux user than your average Windows Pirate gamer type.
Looking over Soldier of Fortune, Quake 3, Descent 3, Myth II, Quake II, Unreal TYournament, Kingpin, and Tribes 2 (all gakmes wghich run on Linux) on my own shelf, compared to System Shock 22 (which runs under some versions of Windows) I'd happily say that I'm generally buying more Linux games than Windows games too.
Rather, I'd say the chicken and egg problem with stores carrying Loki games is a big problem for Loki. People won't buy games till they can get them from a store, stores won't stock games until they know people will buy them. A lot of gamers are below 18 and don't have credit cards. Solution:
1. Buy them from a gaming store that takes money orders (most do)
2. Arrange with your local LUG for monthly purchases of hear from a Linux company to be sold after meeting. My local Lug, Linux Users or Victoria, has 1200 members and get a stack of goods from Everything Linux sold to us at the end of each meeting (the LUG gets a portion of the proceeds).
Hpowever, I'm not giving up on Loki yet and you shouldn't either. next meeting there will be a copy of Rune (a bloody awesome Tombraider style viking adventure game) waiting on the Everything Linux stable for me, and me with $AU90 to pay for it.
Oops, thought you meant /usr/share/applnk (what KDE uses). /me gets educated :)
Its great this directory exists - why then doesn't Red Hat use it more? Every release up to the 7.2 beta is still sticking GNOME programs in their own seperate submenu within KDE.
with a sane setup, you can get an application into both menus at the same time (e.g. the /etc/X11/applnk menu on Red Hat Linux)
Yes I can. I still think its broken:
1. End users not have to need to do work to have menus that are logical (sorting apps by toolkit is illogical). All it takes is for distro packagers to have to use a symlink.
2. Users shouldn't have to maintain 2 redundant sets of the same information.
3. Packagers shouldn't have to put something into two menus, create 2 sets of icons, etc
It is bad anough to make it unusable. Try Ksysguard, Kmenuedit, or the kde file associations dialog box with the GNOME apps in your menus - the icons don't resize, so you've got a combination of 16 x 16 and 48 x 48 icons that makes the creen almost unreadable. KDE 2.2 new highlight-mouseover effect also seems to fail on some GNOME icons...
PS bero; Like your work. The new version of RPM required by KDE 2.2 requires a new version of Glibc that doesn't seem to exist in the non KDE packages on the mirrors.
err, precisely when did "MS" say linux on the desktop was dead? References please.
In their Linux Myths article they said `Linux on the desktop makes absolutely no sense'. I doubt Microsoft ever acknowledged that Linux on the desktop was ever alive, much less previously living but now dead.
My suggestion: work closer with GNOME (and vice versa. Its entirely possib;le to have 2 seperate projects without the current incompatibility and lack of standards between the two.
Users don't pick their apps based on toolkit. They pick them based on quality. For almost all users, that's going to be a mix of KDE and GNOME apps.
Create a standard for:
* Component models. Really. We know its hard to agree on, but it must be done.
* File types - > application mapping database (some people call these MIME types).
* Launcher menus. Application developers and end users are tired of having to add new apps Mozilla to two different sets of menus. Nobody says `I want a QT app...oh, and by the way, can it be a web browser'?. They say `I want a web browser'. They don't care about toolkits and neither should the desktop menus.
* Panel applets.
* Icons. GNOME uses 48 x 48. KDE uses various sizes (which is probably a better way to do it - 48 x 28 icons do notRe:some notes not look pretty). Have a kind word to the GNOME folk and suggest they use the same approach as KDE.
* Package deployment. I'd love to download KDE via Ximian's Red Carpet, or a KDE interface for the same.
Recompiling a kernel is unnecessary for desktop users. The default kernel comes with most drivers they'd need in low overhead modular form and if you don't like it, run `up2date' (KMenu -> System -> Update) and install any new ones (yes, up to date can now do kernel upgrades).
Linux printing Pantone colours to that Winprinter over there
WinPrinter? The one which breaks down every five days under Windows? Here's an idea: rather than using a hundred dollar desktop printer designed for a single user who doesn't print often, lets act like very other business in the world and use large reliable laser printers (invariably HP Laserjet models). I've never found one which doesn't work under Linux.
Oh...and don't forget those TPC coversheets!
If I knew what these were (Transaction Processing Council?) I'd respond.
When you've figured out how to make Linux print as well as Windows, go print yourself out a dozen copies.
Use a business printer rather a home one. But if its an emergency, add a printser shared from a Windows PC to your Linux box via printconf.
Most large corporate environments would have software purchasing guideliens that forbod the purchase or implementation fo any software which requires administrator priveliges for end users.
And your problems would be the same for Linux if your badly written app required root priveliges to run.
All this is to say, where are the facts that support your statement?
I didn't make the initial statement, but I will respond. All my GNOME systems are up to date as of today.
The GNOME 1.4 release significantly diminshed speed and functionality to achieve only a baic file manager / web browser type app. Its very unusual that someone would create a new version that does LESS things than then old did, but I still can't create a new application launcher from the desktop or edit an existing one as with KDE
* The current GNOME control center (yes there's a new one on the way, no it isn't here yet) is confusign with its `test' `OK' implementation. This isn't consistent with many other GNOME apps
* 48 x 48 icons that are `supposed to look good' at 20 x 20 often don't. One size does not fit all.
* AFAICT there's no MacOS / Windows / KDE type style guide which can be used to define consistency between applications
* Defining a filetype -> program mapping is difficult in KDE but especially more so in GNOME.
* GNOME still has many programmerisms within it. Sawfish and GNOME might be seperate apps but from and end user viewpoint they should work seamlessly. Having a `meta' button under the GNOMECC which only defines options avaliable for the Sawfish branch is one such programmerism. And what does `meta' mean to a non tech?
Yeah, gotta hate those commercial apps, like Red Hat Linux and Zope...
I believe the word you're loooking for is closed source, proprietary or non-free. Many Open Source projects are commercial in nature and both the FSF and OSI and any dictionary (combined with some logic) will tell you that whether soemthing is commercial or not has no bearing on whether it is Open Source or Free Software.