This is less of a flaming attempt that you might think.
Linux has always been good to me- i have no regrets. But the numbers (insert real netcraft census, not the typical BSD is dying troll) may indicate better than hype (or maybe not).
Mention OSX as a BSD if you like, but I don't know about its performance vs Free/Net/Open.. (meaning i have no experience with it) I would hope that you can boot it w/o the expensive GUI running all the time. Also, if you have existing PC hardware, Free/Net/Open will not require a new hardware purchase. If you have old PPC machines lying around, Free/Net/Open will not require new hardware purchase.
1) Sammy at Palm Addict writes "According to the BBC, Regular Blackberry use 'could damage thumbs', experts warn.
2) Trendy handheld Blackberry devices could cause damage to users' thumbs, doctors are warning.
3) But US and UK doctors said repetitive use could cause arthritis or harm tendons in the thumb
If you ever watch Fox News you'll hear them do a lot of this- 5 minutes news spots where they simply say the same thing over and over, but with slight variations in wording. Usually it is all sensational hype with no content or evidence. What's funnier is to hear all the sheeple the next day repeating all of this in the same fashion as if it is fact. Well, it is funny in that horribly frightening sort of way, similar to how meteor jokes would be if they announced that the whole planet was going to be anhillated by a giant asteroid in 20 days....:-D
(i'm not picking on the article poster, btw- The subject of the article is very valid)
Everyone scoff all you want about Repetetetetive Strain Injuries (RSI). It all seems so petty till it happens to you.
I know a lot of folks look back on that and scoff, and say "eBusiness/The Internet has `failed'" and stuff...
Well, at least as far as I can tell, most of the stuff that has bailed out was stupid, superfluous, overly flashy, or otherwise destined for failure anyways.
Any of the *real* sorts of eCommerce/eBusiness stuff seems to be doing quite well, such as Amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, ebay, google, slashdot, etc...
In short, I think that people who follow media hype are stupid.
As a EX beer and wine maker I know by the time you factor in all the costs it is cheaper to buy. I made my beer from grain and talk about alot of labour.:( and to be able to get QUALITY BEER it takes patience and many failures.
Oh sure... but don't EVER post any woes to a geek-oriented site about exchanging labor for quality in the end result;)
By your argument I must be insane. I want to grow my own wheat, barley, corn and hops to use for making my own lagers.:-D
How do we know the Sims themselves haven't created these hacks? I mean, all of us here fantasize about being able to program the physics around us for a happier existence, right? right?
Has the "unix" in Panther changed any since the "unix" in the last incremental iteration?
Furthermore, iirc, OSX is still not technically capable of holding the "UNIX" badge from The Open Group.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up for debate.
Now, as far as having some tcsh commandline skills on OSX, that would surely be useful for some every-day puttering around on the desktop.
But most anyone I know (primarily solaris, Linux, Freebsd and Obsd guys) who ran out and bought a powerbook or such for OSX either now dual boot or have wiped OSX completely for *BSD or *nuxPPC.
Besides, they're in dire financial straits and we need to help them out. Maybe they'll bring back just plain ole bricks vs. specialised or licensed stuff.
On the list of things that humans do that are bad for the environment, upgrading a new video card (which the average human does, well, NEVER) is a little bit lower than exhaling carbon dioxide (which the average human does a lot).
It'd surprise you to know how many toxic chemicals and heavy metals are in that video card that will find itself in landfill much sooner than necessary.
In most states, it is illegal to dispose of electronics, especially computers, in landfills or other conventional means without first processing them to some degree.
Otherwise the electronics recycling business wouldn't be flourishing like it is
In this case though, I it is a waste of media as I have two obsolete CD-Rs.
Or you've got two bootable 5.x series cdroms that you can use to do a netinstall w/o fiddling with floppies. The second CD you have there probably won't change much from the actual release.
It all depends on how you look at it.
Sure, I got jacked in the middle of a binary install bc the mirror i was on changed from RC1 to RC2 in the middle, but oh well. What do you expect for free?
I give the fbsd team credit for pulling the plug on a release that wasn't ready yet. It takes a lot of guts to say "we thought we were set, but we were wrong."
I have a degree in the Automotive/Diesel Technology field and used to race, and I took 6 years of architectural and mechanical drafting between junior and high schools.
I can build amazing stuff out of Lego Technic, I run Debian and Freebsd.
Without even looking to see what is new and improved in this release of Wmaker, i'm simply delighted to see that it is still being actively developed.
Since the last release, I had assumed that it had fallen by the wayside and was no longer developed nor maintained, and one day would simply fade away.
I started with KDE 1.1 on Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 in 1998, and when i switched to Debian (Potato) i was still such a n00b that i didn't know how to change the DE. Windowmaker was the default, and a lack of a taskbar at the bottom of the screen freaked me out at first, but after getting used to it i fell in love.
I've since moved to others, trying out the latest KDEs, Gnomes, bbox, icewm, XFCE4 (my current) and whatnot. I picked up an old C150 recently and for grins threw Debian on it, (yes, with X) and kept Wmaker due to it being lightweight (16mb RAM w00!!).
I never realised until then how much i had missed it. I installed it on my primary Desktop (only 430Kb!), supplanting XFCE4, and i haven't felt compelled to change it back yet.
You mean just like in Debian? You mean just like with Debian's apt-get?
Debian is one of the best in this regard, if not the best. Apt-Get is the moh scheezi, i will not deny. It is a well-designed and well-implemented system. However, i *have* had some issues with it installing some packages in the absense of others, and leaving the system or at least apt in a broken state. I was able to google and read the manpages on the system or docs at debian.org and fix it, but i would have rather used those afternoons (4 incidents) for other things. Otherwise, i have no complaints for Debian. They are doing an excellent job, and i hope they continue to ignore all the pressure people give them to change their ways.
To be fair also, slackware's package management system (pkg_tool) isn't as bad as the internet would lead you to believe. It's somewhat crude and leaves a lot of work to be done by the administrator (ferreting out dependencies beforehand), but it's simple and it just works.
Once again i'll state that I have used both Debian and Slackware and I like them both. Everything's got its quirks, even the BSDs.
Are you saying that all third-party software that I may want for my BSD system is all in one place? Wow.
Actually by "Whole OS" i meant the base system. All other 3rd party apps such as Xorg or irc clients, games, some programming languages etc aren't really part of the OS itself. However, that said, you have a single interface (sysinstall or/usr/ports) to use that will hunt down all the bits for you. Not every 3rd party app is available on the FreeBSD servers, but lots of it is. I've never had sysinstall nor the ports system not find something. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that i've never seen it.
To be fair: The existence of rpmfind.net, et al, and the inconsistencies in rpm-packaged software at those sites is not RedHat's fault for the same reason that the existence of incompatible Linux distros is not Torvold's fault.
Of course not. Many linux distributions have all of their base system available as tarballs or packages on their site, but RH seemed to be a bit sparse on that. Maybe i'm not looking in the right place. I'm not going to get into the problems i've run into using RPMs and their implementation though. That's outside the scope of our conversation, for the time being;)
Btw i don't fault Linus for anything. To him I am grateful.
A long time (well, relatively speaking- (6 years)) user of Linux i'm finding myself spending more and more time in my FreeBSD installation than anything else.
This isn't a rant against linux- Debian and Slackware have both been very good, stable, and fun for me over the years. I have no regrets! But i must say that the grass is greener on the FreeBSD side of the fence, at least for my purposes.
Package management is concise and consistent. The whole OS and all its packages can be found in one place. No sifting through rpmfind.net (we have RH machines at work), sourceforge or freshmeat, or any other craziness. Documentation is well done and up to date. Software installation is almost mindless. Configuring the kernel is amazingly simple. The gripes about hardware support and detection seem to be a non-issue for the hardware i have (which is pretty typical of what 90% of/. readers would have too). It's more elegant in that UNIX way. Things are less complicated through better design and implimentation.
The BSD folks highlight how the BSD system is all made by one small team, vs. GNU/Linux being made by hundreds or thousands of folks on separate projects. I must attest that there truly *is* a difference in the end product. Everything in a BSD system "fits" and "gets along".
Once again- this isn't a criticism of linux either. The `fragmented' or `modular' method of assembling a GNU/Linux system gives it other strenghts in different areas that some BSD systems might otherwise not have. It's all about the right tool for the job.
A side benefit of the BSD side of the fence is the lack of Crusading To Subjugate The World type of mentality. It's all about the UNIXy goodness instead, which is why -I- got away from Windows in the first place. I find this a very refreshing change.
Slashdot Mirror
This is less of a flaming attempt that you might think.
Linux has always been good to me- i have no regrets. But the numbers (insert real netcraft census, not the typical BSD is dying troll) may indicate better than hype (or maybe not).
Mention OSX as a BSD if you like, but I don't know about its performance vs Free/Net/Open.. (meaning i have no experience with it) I would hope that you can boot it w/o the expensive GUI running all the time. Also, if you have existing PC hardware, Free/Net/Open will not require a new hardware purchase. If you have old PPC machines lying around, Free/Net/Open will not require new hardware purchase.
U.S. Kids:
....it goes on and on... every year you read more stuff like this.
1) are 40% illiterate, of the 60 that are literate, few progress past a third grade level.
2) rarely progress past seventh grade math levels
3) cannot find their own state on a map of the U.S.
4) cannot find the U.S. on a map of the world
5) ???
6) Profit!!!
So the United States is a Legion Of Dumbfucks And Ignoramuses.
Sorry.
Cheggidout:
:-D
1) Sammy at Palm Addict writes "According to the BBC, Regular Blackberry use 'could damage thumbs', experts warn.
2) Trendy handheld Blackberry devices could cause damage to users' thumbs, doctors are warning.
3) But US and UK doctors said repetitive use could cause arthritis or harm tendons in the thumb
If you ever watch Fox News you'll hear them do a lot of this- 5 minutes news spots where they simply say the same thing over and over, but with slight variations in wording. Usually it is all sensational hype with no content or evidence. What's funnier is to hear all the sheeple the next day repeating all of this in the same fashion as if it is fact. Well, it is funny in that horribly frightening sort of way, similar to how meteor jokes would be if they announced that the whole planet was going to be anhillated by a giant asteroid in 20 days....
(i'm not picking on the article poster, btw- The subject of the article is very valid)
Everyone scoff all you want about Repetetetetive Strain Injuries (RSI). It all seems so petty till it happens to you.
I know a lot of folks look back on that and scoff, and say "eBusiness/The Internet has `failed'" and stuff...
Well, at least as far as I can tell, most of the stuff that has bailed out was stupid, superfluous, overly flashy, or otherwise destined for failure anyways.
Any of the *real* sorts of eCommerce/eBusiness stuff seems to be doing quite well, such as Amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, ebay, google, slashdot, etc...
In short, I think that people who follow media hype are stupid.
As a EX beer and wine maker I know by the time you factor in all the costs it is cheaper to buy. I made my beer from grain and talk about alot of labour. :( and to be able to get QUALITY BEER it takes patience and many failures.
;)
:-D
Oh sure... but don't EVER post any woes to a geek-oriented site about exchanging labor for quality in the end result
By your argument I must be insane. I want to grow my own wheat, barley, corn and hops to use for making my own lagers.
w00h00!!
How do we know the Sims themselves haven't created these hacks? I mean, all of us here fantasize about being able to program the physics around us for a happier existence, right? right?
Has the "unix" in Panther changed any since the "unix" in the last incremental iteration?
Furthermore, iirc, OSX is still not technically capable of holding the "UNIX" badge from The Open Group.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up for debate.
Now, as far as having some tcsh commandline skills on OSX, that would surely be useful for some every-day puttering around on the desktop.
But most anyone I know (primarily solaris, Linux, Freebsd and Obsd guys) who ran out and bought a powerbook or such for OSX either now dual boot or have wiped OSX completely for *BSD or *nuxPPC.
A failing on their part, maybe?
You can never go wrong with Lego.
Rule of thumb.
Besides, they're in dire financial straits and we need to help them out. Maybe they'll bring back just plain ole bricks vs. specialised or licensed stuff.
check out their online store:
www.lego.com
.... Just about everyone i know went on an extensive upgrading spree in preparation for the Doom3 launch date. ;)
:D
I can't imagine all the upgrading angst held back for Duke Nukem Forever
check out:
http://www.cascade-assets.com/
In Wisconsin.
On the list of things that humans do that are bad for the environment, upgrading a new video card (which the average human does, well, NEVER) is a little bit lower than exhaling carbon dioxide (which the average human does a lot).
It'd surprise you to know how many toxic chemicals and heavy metals are in that video card that will find itself in landfill much sooner than necessary.
In most states, it is illegal to dispose of electronics, especially computers, in landfills or other conventional means without first processing them to some degree.
Otherwise the electronics recycling business wouldn't be flourishing like it is
In this case though, I it is a waste of media as I have two obsolete CD-Rs.
Or you've got two bootable 5.x series cdroms that you can use to do a netinstall w/o fiddling with floppies. The second CD you have there probably won't change much from the actual release.
It all depends on how you look at it.
Sure, I got jacked in the middle of a binary install bc the mirror i was on changed from RC1 to RC2 in the middle, but oh well. What do you expect for free?
I give the fbsd team credit for pulling the plug on a release that wasn't ready yet. It takes a lot of guts to say "we thought we were set, but we were wrong."
Oh yeah, i forgot my disclaimer:
:-D
I have a degree in the Automotive/Diesel Technology field and used to race, and I took 6 years of architectural and mechanical drafting between junior and high schools.
I can build amazing stuff out of Lego Technic, I run Debian and Freebsd.
And i still say Gentoo is for Ricers!
Where's the obligatory Gentoo && Ricers comment?
http://www.funroll-loops.org/
Without even looking to see what is new and improved in this release of Wmaker, i'm simply delighted to see that it is still being actively developed.
Since the last release, I had assumed that it had fallen by the wayside and was no longer developed nor maintained, and one day would simply fade away.
I started with KDE 1.1 on Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 in 1998, and when i switched to Debian (Potato) i was still such a n00b that i didn't know how to change the DE. Windowmaker was the default, and a lack of a taskbar at the bottom of the screen freaked me out at first, but after getting used to it i fell in love.
I've since moved to others, trying out the latest KDEs, Gnomes, bbox, icewm, XFCE4 (my current) and whatnot. I picked up an old C150 recently and for grins threw Debian on it, (yes, with X) and kept Wmaker due to it being lightweight (16mb RAM w00!!).
I never realised until then how much i had missed it. I installed it on my primary Desktop (only 430Kb!), supplanting XFCE4, and i haven't felt compelled to change it back yet.
Hurray for themes.freshmeat.net!
Is it really the OS itself that is sluggish, or is it Xorg and X type apps that are sluggish?
;)
Two different things, and it could all be perception.
You mean just like in Debian? You mean just like with Debian's apt-get?
Debian is one of the best in this regard, if not the best. Apt-Get is the moh scheezi, i will not deny. It is a well-designed and well-implemented system. However, i *have* had some issues with it installing some packages in the absense of others, and leaving the system or at least apt in a broken state. I was able to google and read the manpages on the system or docs at debian.org and fix it, but i would have rather used those afternoons (4 incidents) for other things. Otherwise, i have no complaints for Debian. They are doing an excellent job, and i hope they continue to ignore all the pressure people give them to change their ways.
To be fair also, slackware's package management system (pkg_tool) isn't as bad as the internet would lead you to believe. It's somewhat crude and leaves a lot of work to be done by the administrator (ferreting out dependencies beforehand), but it's simple and it just works.
Once again i'll state that I have used both Debian and Slackware and I like them both. Everything's got its quirks, even the BSDs.
Are you saying that all third-party software that I may want for my BSD system is all in one place? Wow.
/usr/ports) to use that will hunt down all the bits for you. Not every 3rd party app is available on the FreeBSD servers, but lots of it is. I've never had sysinstall nor the ports system not find something. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that i've never seen it.
;)
Actually by "Whole OS" i meant the base system. All other 3rd party apps such as Xorg or irc clients, games, some programming languages etc aren't really part of the OS itself. However, that said, you have a single interface (sysinstall or
To be fair: The existence of rpmfind.net, et al, and the inconsistencies in rpm-packaged software at those sites is not RedHat's fault for the same reason that the existence of incompatible Linux distros is not Torvold's fault.
Of course not. Many linux distributions have all of their base system available as tarballs or packages on their site, but RH seemed to be a bit sparse on that. Maybe i'm not looking in the right place. I'm not going to get into the problems i've run into using RPMs and their implementation though. That's outside the scope of our conversation, for the time being
Btw i don't fault Linus for anything. To him I am grateful.
While there are still a few hurdles to overcome
Is that the setting your clothes on fire hurdle, or the asphyxiation in closed in spaces hurdle?
A long time (well, relatively speaking- (6 years)) user of Linux i'm finding myself spending more and more time in my FreeBSD installation than anything else.
/. readers would have too). It's more elegant in that UNIX way. Things are less complicated through better design and implimentation.
This isn't a rant against linux- Debian and Slackware have both been very good, stable, and fun for me over the years. I have no regrets! But i must say that the grass is greener on the FreeBSD side of the fence, at least for my purposes.
Package management is concise and consistent. The whole OS and all its packages can be found in one place. No sifting through rpmfind.net (we have RH machines at work), sourceforge or freshmeat, or any other craziness. Documentation is well done and up to date. Software installation is almost mindless. Configuring the kernel is amazingly simple. The gripes about hardware support and detection seem to be a non-issue for the hardware i have (which is pretty typical of what 90% of
The BSD folks highlight how the BSD system is all made by one small team, vs. GNU/Linux being made by hundreds or thousands of folks on separate projects. I must attest that there truly *is* a difference in the end product. Everything in a BSD system "fits" and "gets along".
Once again- this isn't a criticism of linux either. The `fragmented' or `modular' method of assembling a GNU/Linux system gives it other strenghts in different areas that some BSD systems might otherwise not have. It's all about the right tool for the job.
A side benefit of the BSD side of the fence is the lack of Crusading To Subjugate The World type of mentality. It's all about the UNIXy goodness instead, which is why -I- got away from Windows in the first place. I find this a very refreshing change.
I sure wish -I- was 9 years old. :-/
Some of the early 1980s were some fun times.
Though i can't decide whether computers were cool then, or if they sucked.
Thankyou to all the folks that have created the world-class documentation system to go with the world-class OS that is FreeBSD.
*thumbs up*
While i agree that more trees would be good-
;)
just keep in mind that trees breathe CO2 during the day, but at night they breathe O2 and release CO2.
Still... we've definately got a deficiency for trees. Your point is still valid.
No, but it would have had a more lickable error message.
I mean, that's what Apple is all about- licking stuff.
You know, like:
OMIGAWD!! TOO MANY REQUESTS, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!
Would you like some After-Crash mints?
[Yes] [No] [Apply] [Ok] [Cancel]
(yes i am responding and quoting to myself, and yes i have seen dialog windows on Macs that were that ambiguous)
If their web server were running OSX, it might work a little better...
No, but it would have had a more lickable error message.
I mean, that's what Apple is all about- licking stuff.