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Cherry OS Claims Mac OS X Capability For x86
jediboytj writes "According to the MacWorld Article, Cherry OS, does what Virtual PC does for Macs, only the opposite. PC Users are now able to run Mac OSX at G4 Speeds (Company claims 80% of the speed of your PC). It also includes full hardware support: hard drive, CPU, RAM, FireWire, USB, PCI, PCMCIA bus, Ethernet networking and modem. The software is being distributed through electronic download at $49.99 USD..." Note: it does not come with a copy of any Apple OS. Anyone in Windowsland tried it to provide a thumbs up (or down)?
If anyone has popped the cherry on CherryOS yet?
Oops ... look like somebody got slashdotted already. And only 0 comments so far!
I can't even load the cherryos.com site to take a look at it...
Wow, there is a recipe for a slashdotting-- let people run OS X on the cheapest ahrdware they can find...
They saw us coming around the corner!
Server Error in '/' Application.
Just a dot away from a PERFECT error message.
I've always wanted to try OS X to see if I'd like it, but I've always thought buying a Mac was an expensive way to "test drive" OS X, and thus have never done so. $50.00 on the otherhand is quite reasonable, I think. Perhaps I'll finally give OS X a try.
Now I can have my life-long dream of running a Laserwriter using appletalk!
isn't the whole point of running osX that it's mac hardware too? why would you want to run it on a pc?
The screenshots are missing (last I checked), the site is full of spelling errors and they called it "Apple Install Shield". It being Installer.app, I guess?
Emulating a G3 at 80% might be within the realm of possibility if I was on LSD. However, saying you can do a G4 (which implies AltiVec) is just not possible. Seriously. That'd be like emulating SSE3 on a G5. Ain't gonna happen.
Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility.
does it also do the "diiiiiiing" when you start up? should not, as the usual PC has no built-in speaker. that will take away a big chunk from the experience....
After 12 years at macs my iBook died and I built a PC. So long Mandrake Linux... Hello, again, OS X! Wooot!
Now I can finally run all my games!
What a perversion.... I'm going back to getting my Cuisenart to run Debian. - B
I'll finally be able to play all those games I can't get for the PC platform.
seems they are running a .Net server and it is 'too busy' right now :-( .Not is more like it!
i think they are running cherry os for their Windoze based webserver too.
I've never, in any vague reference too heard anything of CherryOS.Don't even know if the company has any credibility or if the software has been tested on any hardware. :-)
You guys heard of the cherry before??This is either totally groundbreaking or aa dud hoax.
Lord of the Binges.
The MacWorld article is very, very short and does not explain why someone would want to emulate the Mac OS on an x86 machine. If it runs at 80% of it's speed on a Mac and it sits on top of an existing operating system, it sounds very kludgey. Is there Mac-only software that people would want to run on their x86 machine? Or, are their folks that really want the Mac OS features on their x86 this badly? It sounds interesting in theory but in practice . . .
http://www.busyweather.com/
We all get along together like tornadoes and trailer parks.
I wonder how this CherryOS would compare with PearPC in terms of speed and functionality. Of course, I don't know much about either product, so I might be comparing apples to oranges (or Cherries to Apples?)
"You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
No. you got it all wrong. It is actually IIS running on a virtual PC inside Cherry OS inside a normal PC.
Python script to convert photos into "artsy" portraits: http://p2pbridge.sf.net/pyPortrait/
I know it's more fun to bitch and moan about the original site being slashdotted, but if you want to RTFA, then simply go to mirrordot:
http://www.mirrordot.org
Enough already.
I tired this and MAN Macs are so slow...
sounds like they achieved what PearPC was trying to accomplish.
I am interested to know if this is actually true...
Yeah that will piss bill off. People that wanted to buy an apple will just buy a windows pc, Cherry and OSX. That will really tick him off. Drain off all of the apple hardware margins and increase windows revenue. Life must suck for him right now.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Their windows IIS with ASP.NET box is toast.
Why should I pay money to people who can't even run a decent website than can stand up to a pre-Slashdot effect from subscribers?
I assume that that Cherry OS runs as a host on some other OS? If so, what is the "host OS"? Will that be Windows, or also Linux? [I would check on the cherrySO site, but it is *already* slashdotted -- at least from Zurich].
Even without reading the site. Never mind the shortage of general purpose registers on x86 and the lack of a direct mapping between instruction sets, one has to question any vendor that is running on IIS with debugging enabled and with the .NET framework enabled.
For the reasons why - just look at their site right about now.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I tried it today... it crashed when I clicked the right mouse button.
One thing I've always liked about my Mac (I use both Macs and PCs) is the stability of it.
Us mac users from the past are laughing at your comment. (mostly because we're jealous!)
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I have some Windows software I need reviewed. What would be the best place to ask? Oh, I know... Slashdot! Of course!
You're just FUDing...XP is quite stable. I run it continuously on my desktop in a high-use engineering environment with weeks or months between reboots.
This does work. I'm posting this right now from OSX, running in a window in XP. Ofcourse, XP is actually a VMWare window which I'm seeing through a web-citrix ica client on my sun box. isn't technology great?):
The Digital Couture Collection
As pointed out on the comments on the article page, this is most likely a fraud. Writing a VM isn't the easiest thing to do. This software would likely cost much more than $50 because of the effort involved.
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
Yeh, that should piss them off... make Mac-only software just another obsolete reason for buying pricey Macs over cheap Intel. Even with the cost a Windoze license you could still build a pretty beefy workstation to host an OSX image for the same money you'd pay for a closed G5 setup.
The flip-side: a report will be out in a week saying 90% of Windows installations are only used to pirate OSX!!!
Can I bum a sig? I left mine at the office.
We do have that stability in Windows XP. I had a 3 year old XP install on my main box. I normally get multi month uptime on my laptop. Only time Im rebooting is for driver upgrades.
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
PearPC was first and is cheaper.
behind on your security patches then, are you? :)
if this will work or not, but if it does, Apple legal won't be happy. The EULA states that you have to run OS X on Apple branded hardware(probably to kill clones), now I am willing to bet for the time being anyway, Apple will look the other way on non-commerical projects like Pear PC, but they probably won't be very keen on a commericial product that violates the EULA.
Monstar L
Why not just go with inventor of the GUI and the maker of the first 64 bit PC ???
:-)
Just buy a mac
You can have the safety of licensed software like Microsoft Office, or you can be risky and run open source applications like Apache.
MXS Inc. announces CherryOS 1.0 October, 08 2004
NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEADIATE RELEASE Contact: Jim Kartes, 866-661-5699 jim@vx30.com Media contact same.
Maui, HI (DATE) MXS today announce the immediate availability of Cherry OS software . Cherry OS is a software translator that allows you to install Apple's Operating System on x86 computer architecture. To put it simply you can now run Apple's award winning Panther OS on your PC! This breakthrough in OS development now gives home users, software developers and web designer's ultimate flexibility in both the operating system and hardware platform you use for your personal computer or testing environment.
Cherry OS runs Panther as a virtual machine on your Windows PC. This virtual machine has full network capabilities including the ability to share folders and access the web. The virtual machine also has complete access to the computer's hardware resources including, Hard Drive, CPU, RAM, Firewire, USB, PCI, PCMIA BUS and RJ45/Ethernet and Modem.
Arben Kryeziu, Cherry OS inventor and a software developer, got tired of carrying both a Mac and a PC around with him, so he invented Cherry OS. "Think about it," says Arben. "Now about 600 million PC users can have the MAC advantage. One computer to use all software and if PC users would use MAC software to get email, perhaps they would avoid viruses, Trojans and spy-ware." He went on to say that , "You can build and test applications for a Mac on your development PC, test web site design for Mac web browsers without having to buy the hardware, run OS X, the world's best Operating System, on a less expensive hardware platform and use your favorite Mac apps on a PC."
Pricing and availability
Cherry OS is now available only on line at www.cherryos.com as a download, for $49.95. (Mac software not included)
About MXS
MXS is a software development company specializing in video streaming software. Playerless-streaming.org ranked our vx30 encoder as the best in the world.
The products of Maui X-Stream can be viewed on www.vx30.com
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
Now we have an alternative. Pay them and run mac 10, or don't pay them, but mac 10 and install Pear PC. Hmmm. 'wonders if anyone will be sued over this'
I've always wanted to give OS-X a try, but I was not willing to spend the thousand(s) of dollars necessary in order to buy the hardware to run it on.. my Athlon64 system suits me just fine, thank you. I only need ONE machine, and since Windows is the only real choice for gaming, x86 is the way to go.
That said, it's a shame that Apple doesn't release OS-X for x86 hardware..
I am the maverick of Slashdot
It just seems too good to be true.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
You can install all your favorite mac applications on your PC like iLife, iTunes and Photoshop ... to name just a few.
WoW!!! I can finally run iTunes and Photoshop on my PC!!!
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
Yes, the process of emulating a PowerPC on an Intel x86 chip takes up 80 percent of your host CPU -- leaving 20 percent for user applications. What's so hard to understand about that?
Breakfast served all day!
PearPC, same thing only open source, free, and runs on Windows and Linux.
Can Cherry OS run Virtual PC?
I meant "no other independent reviews"
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
does anyone else smell some PearPC code behind all this?
That would be my bet. A nice installer.
Rebooting for a mere driver upgrade is ridiculous. Reinstalling XP after a catastrophic mistake I had to reboot about a dozen times.
That was almost excusable with the disaster area that was Win9x but surely something that is supposed to be a professional OS should be able to swap drivers in and out just like some OS written by a bunch of hippies in their spare time can.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
PearPC
:)
It's free (beer or libre, you choose)! It's admittedly slower than a G4, but cool anyway. And free!
now we just need some torrents or ed2k links...
Apple explicitly forbids any usage of MacOS X on non-Apple hardware in the license that the operating system comes with.
For the same reason, it's not allowed to run MacOS X under Mac-On-Linux on non-apple hardware either.
Aqua (Apples window manager) is a very heavy processing task and is accelerated in hardware (Open GL) on Apple machines. Running Aqua without hardware acceleration would be... slow. Still, an interesting way to test drive non-the-less.
...this reminds me of the COS operating system, which was supposed to run a MacOS 8-compatible environment in a fraction of the RAM, preemptive blah blah, etc., etc.
But wow, this CherryOS sounds like it might be the REAL thing, though. Yup, yup, yup...
...or maybe not...
What does it mean to wake out of a dream
and be wearing someone else's shorts?
BNL, Born on a Pirate Ship (1998)
Of the time I had to explain to my friend why "Cherry Popping Daddies" won an award for most tasteless band name.
Much like the real thing, looking at an Apple through my apartment's Windows isn't the same as taking a bite for myself.
All I can say is I can finally get access to all those hundreds of OSX apps I keep hearing about that won't Run on Windows.... No... Really. All those... OSX Apps...
No wait, I have that backwards.
So what do you think, is it based on PearPC or what? If they can get OSX on an X-Box (OSX-Box?), I'm sure there's nothing they can't do. And with X-Box2 being based on the Mac chip, we might get a cheap X-Box2 emulator in time for Christmas.
For Intel processors to run PowerPC instructions takes a lot of power. Luckly, that power exists, yet it not allow a truly powerful Mac OS X experience since that OS has a large overhead for graphics power. Graphic hardware acceleration in modern uses of Mac OS X (such as graphic work and games) is practically essential. Still, I'll withhold judgment on this Cherry thing until I try it out.
Emulator talk reminds me of a funny error message you get if you try to install a copy of Virtual PC for Windows within a Windows environment running on Virtual PC for Mac OS. The error says somthing like:
"You cannot install Virtual PC for Windows within the Mac OS version of Virtual PC."
"(Nice try.) "
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
'Nuf said
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
The URL: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
I was just about finished convincing myself that I needed some Apple hardware so I could run Final Cut Pro. If they make that work, I'm SO sold.
VirtualPC within CherryOS on a Linux host?
CB$#
free ipod and free gmail!
You develop software? please, do us a favor, develop on a pIII or lower..
when I make web pages- I always check them at 56k dialup... then I re-do them...
There's no way you can emulate even a stripped-down PPC instruction set on x86 at 80% speed, let alone Altivec. The best I've seen any commercial editor come close to is a third, or maybe a half.
This'd be running an equivalent 2.7 ghz G4 on your top-of-the-line PentiumIV. They can't come close to that in hardware, there's no way they can touch it in software.
Sounds like a poorly-planned scam to me.
Can you run a webserver on a MAC?
W orkerRequest wr) +146
Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573
These guys run theirs on Windows.
Server Error in '/' Application. Server Too Busy Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. Stack Trace: [HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy] System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(Http
Lord of the Binges.
Looks like vaporware to me. The site is down. Even in the responses to the original macworld article over there says it was down, so this can not be a slashdot effect. Also, if the author(s) of this os is so much in love with mac os, why do they run their website on a ./net framework ? Lotsa questions, not a single answer so far.
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
I'm gonna guess Redmond...
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
I tried to google cherryos. Nadda, zip, nothing. Nothing this cool would be able to slip under everybodys radar. The URL didn't even show to see the cashed ver. This is as likley as VPC running window at 80% of you CPU speed.
I've just downloaded its manual: http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.pdf and smells pretty like PearPC for me...
someone now just needs to make stripped down os that has the sole purpose of emulation
~skakid
Perhaps this (and/or other similar projects) will finally force Apple to release OS X for the PC...?
Nahh. They'd probably rather sue than allow their lucrative hardware market to diminish.
Crud.
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
PC users....(P)unch (C)ard user, (P)ile of (C)rappy old hardware that runs slackware faster than WindowsXP or Win98, and more importantly most low income ./ readers. There is still a market out there for used (P)iece of (C)rap computers. It has a large community on /. This community has wet dreams of G5s in a beowolf cluster sex manage all connected by firewire.
..because 10 bucks says this rips off PearPC wholesale.
The software is being distributed through electronic download at $49.99 USD...
Oh good. I'm growing really tired of mechanical downloads...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
At least my Mac OS X (10.2.8) wants to reboot after most patches/updates, even Java or iChat. That *is* annoying. Way to go for Apple in this area...
They host the PDF of the user manual offsite:
Download PDF here (1.6MB). It has screenshots.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility.
On an X-Box.
InstallShield X actually is Mac OS X native.
However, it is incredibly unclear as to if this is what they are referring to, or if they are talking about installer.app.
All in all, I won't be giving them $50 if they can't even be clear and concise about what I get for my $50...
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Click here for some screenshots and a running commentary.
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
I run Windows 2000 and XP on 4 machines, and none of them go down unless I shut them down. One is used for Windows development at work, one is my wife and kid's internet/game machine, one is a laptop (not heavily used, but the kids play games on it some), one does a fair chunk of video editing and encoding. I regularly have uptimes in the range of 6 to 8 weeks, generally shutting down only for vacations or upgrades.
But compiling the driver and then crapping around /etc for thirty minutes isn't.
It's a desktop PC. God will kill no kittens and the world will not come to an end if you reboot once in a while. If you do not want to reboot a desktop PC it's either because you have some psychological issues or you're running some mission-critical application on it, which is dumb to begin with.
> I haven't turned off or reset my Power Book in over 4 months and I use it heavily on a daily basis. MOST people don't have that stable of an installation of Windows to begin with.
Hmmm very curious- I guess you haven't kept up to date with any security updates then eh?
I browse at +5 Flamebait- moderation for all or moderation for none.
You can run OS X on x86 using PearPC. Coincidentally, I tried it just this weekend. It's not perfect and slower than Cherry OS (based on their claims), but if a trial is all you're looking for then I can vouch for the fact that it works.
hey at least we're not the pits ;p
Cherry Os could actually work. I remember in the past when noone could emulate n64 games on a PC, even though many emulators have tried. Then all of a sudden, an obscure group of people released UltraHLE out of nowhere with 100% speed, sound, and all sorts of stuff with a decent (for a first public release) support. Although OSX would be more compicated to run on x86/Windows (processor speed and the like), it could be possible.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
"We have no uptime data for www.cherryos.com at present, and cannot plot a graph. "
http://www.cherryos.com.nyud.net:8090/
Use Coral CDN! It works and it's available, no excuses except laziness.
I would prefer to have a real Mac rather than running an unreviewed emulator. A real Mac is more sexy and less messy than a PC, unless the PC runs the impressive KGX .
Yeah, I downloaded that - and it brought me nothing but spyware! DON'T CLICK ON THE LINK!
If this really works, and becomes popular, and gets many customers? Might this motivate Apple to release Marklar? The supposed reason they haven't is because they are a hardware company and it would kill sales. But if a third-party app gives people roughly the same option without Apple's help, would they do it?
Assuming they don't sue the bejesus out of someone first. AFAIK, part of the Mac OS X EULA is that it can only be used on Apple hardware. But when was the last time I read that thing? (any confirmation?)
I'm still skeptical that this does 80%, and out of the blue...
Just get a Mac. There are no cheap Macs because cheap isn't in Apple's vocabulary. Affordable, however, is.
Lycestra
Who's got the .torrent? I'd gladly drop 40$ for something like this if I can try it out first...
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
In other news, geek grows tired of carrying around lotion and a towel, invents woman.
Karma: Excer..ex...excellahhh...realll good (mostly affected by drinking not done in moderation)
Go here for a movie from the creator of CherryOS.
Go here for a topic discussion on PearPC.net.
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
Server Error in '/.' Application.
If you mod me down, I shall become less powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Some net.stores, including Other World Computing, sell older versions of Mac OS X for under $10. Ebay is also a likely source for OX X and 9.x and earlier.
You can get Mac OS X 7.5.3 + 7.5.5 updates straight from Apple. You might aslso check out Emulators.com for some emulators that let you run vintage Mac stuff on your PC.
Oh, yeah, I'm thinking this is PearPC under the hood. Someday a run-of-the-mill PC will be able to emulate a G4, but not today, certaintly not at less cost than a real G4 box from Apple.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Apple's a hardware company. Mac OS X runs ONLY on Macs. That's the whole point of Mac OS X and its superiority over Windows (or even Linux as far as the GUI 'experience.')
They don't WANT it running on ANY other hardware. Heck, they stay'd away from the X86 architecture and instead introduced the 601 architecture (G1 in this parlance, Now they're up to iMac G5) and they have stayed away from commoditized hardware, not standards but hardware, like it had ebola.
Maybe Sculley would have been happy fading in the sunset but Jobs is NOT gonna take this lying down.
Buy your copy NOW because, I smell fire, brinstone and some lawer's suit coming down the pike (or should I say some hacker's *ss coming down ON the pike.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And in reference to another poster - given Windows world-class security, shouldn't it be the one depicted being tentacle-raped?!!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I managed to get to the documentation page by refreshing rapidly. The manual is avaliable online, and hosted on a differant server. It's a 1.7 mb download, but includes screenshots and information.
.doc
Manual avaliable here:
http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.pdf
or as a
http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.doc
Will it run on my iPod for windows?
Downloading a stolen copy of the OS is just plain wrong.
Apple paid 400 million dollars to buy NeXT. They then spent years of development effort integrating their older MacOS technologies to ensure backward compatibility. They released the resulting core OS for free use (in source code no less). They base a number of their core utility software on OpenSource products, and contribute much source code back to the community.
If you are running a BSD Unix, or running Linix, chances are you are already benefiting from Apple contributions to open source projects on a daily basis.
Ooh, you say, now we can pirate their GUI development utilities and application software! Grow up!
Why would you benefit from doing so? Because the software is worth using, will save you time, and will be enjoyable. If you benefit from a product or service, show some respect for those people responsible for providing it.
If you are not willing to pay anything, then use what is given for free. They respect and contribute to both GNU and BSD based projects.
If you are not willing to buy a new machine, then look on eBay, or online retailers who specialize in repairing and reselling older Mac hardware.
Yes, the software is damn good. No, they currently do not sell it on Intel hardware (either native or emulated).
Whether you or I like that or not, is beside the point. Using tools which improve your productivity or quality of life is worth something to you. If it is worthwhile, put up or shut up. In the open source world, contribute money or time to help improve it. In the commercial world, buy the product, and help fund further improvements.
That's what makes guys like Steve Jobs a genius.
Fundamentally he may be stupid and arrogant but he can steal other people's ideas and sell them to the gullible masses. Kinda like Bill Gates, acutally.
What's a right mouse button?
...can be found here http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.pdf Looks like the developer wrote this by hand.
LOOP1: MOV CX,2 LOOP LOOP1
I could run MacOS 10 running in Cherry OS under WinXP running in Virtual PC on a MacOS 10 install within a Cherry OS install inside of...
And then I can open up some X11 windows and completely lose track of what the hell hardware I'm on!
--- Ban humanity.
as in 'that shit is as dumb as a bag of hammers' I am die-hard Mac user and I can see no reason to emulate Mac in x86. All of my Mac SW works or has a win32 version. More to the point if the world needed this someone would have done it for Linux first. Has anybody even heard of these people?
--Shaddup and support your local PBS station Plan for it
Running MacOS using CherryOS on Windows using VMWare on FreeBSD using Linux binary compatibility.
In Soviet Russia, Linux binaries run you using FreeBSD binary compatibility on MacOS using VMWare running Windows.
The GUI -- windows, mouse for control, pop-ups, etc. -- was invented by Dr. Douglas Engelbart at SRI in the 60s. It was Xerox who applied the metaphor to the PC, added overlapping windows and the LAN, and then coupled it with a development environment that was more that one-off coding hacks (important to be sure, but not close to "inventing" the GUI.)
VIDEO LINK: http://origin-movies.vx30.com/cherryos/#
If this CherryOS isn't a complete Vapourware/fraud POS, then I wonder what the hardware support will be like. Especially for devices with no Mac driver support, or even no hardware compatibility on standard Apple hardware (ie: will PS2 ports etc be supported? What about the non-Mac-supporting Radeon X800?)
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
That's because it's not possible to get 80% speed with an emulator as described. You *cannot* do this on a PowerPC emulator hosted on an x86 system. Even ignoring things like the fact that the endianness of all integer values is reversed, the PowerPC has several times more general-purpose registers than the x86. Even if the emulation system has zero overhead for its own code, you're going to have to be pulling registers in and out of main memory, which is going to be vastly slower -- that will immediately cut you down to a small fraction of the performance.
It *might* be possible to write a compiler that can build x86 binaries with PPC binaries as input. It would be hard and the performance would probably still suck, but this is the route that will give the best performance. There has to be a lot of register usage analysis that needs to be done to get something like this even remotely usable, and you are going to want to do this statically.
If someone ran out and made a legitimate system like this, several things would be true:
1) These people would probably be from a compiler company, because the work that needs to be done to do this efficiently is *hard* and requires a lot of techniques that compilers use.
2) If this is a commercial project (i.e. people are actually serious about making money and not getting hit by lawsuits), they would have gotten an OK from Apple and Apple would have made noise promoting this. Why? The only practical reason to build a modern Mac emulator is to run Mac OS X, which, on non-Apple hardware, is a violation of Apple's EULA.
3) The ROM problem is still present -- you can't make a Mac emulator legally without the Mac ROMs, which Apple keeps copyrighted. -- see #2.
May we never see th
Someone wanna put this up on suprnova? It's almost time for me to format, I'm installing all the crapware I always wanted to try and this looks interesting.
How is this insightful? Of course the software cost more than $50 to develop. They probably plan on selling more than one copy before getting sued into oblivion by Apple. For all you know Cherry OS hired a bunch of guys in India to write the thing and it did cost $50. In any case prices are governed by the law of supply and demand and not by you.
Lasers Controlled Games!
an old Arthur Brown reference.
If the price of an iMac G5 is too high, I'm sure you can pick up a perfectly workable one elsewhere.
Try it...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
The reason Steve will not fall for the trap is simple. Most Windows hardware manufactures are already so beaten up by Microsoft and each other that the new PC market is about to implode! To write drivers for all the crap hardware out there is soooo expensive that Steve deliberately stays small. He trys to hang on to his loyal following by creating hardware that is broadcast quality. Just go out and price windows commercial hardware, you will find that Apple has it all over every other platform.
Insighful? WTF? The parent deserves -1 Troll, obviously they've never used a recent version of Windows or are just trolling.
Hmm, their main page states, under "Screenshots":
Desctop & Task Manager
and under "What can CherryOS do?":
Skin enadled GUI
But beyond the typos, their "Client Showcase" features a testimonial from "Secnet Q&A Services" which Google doesn't have any information on (hmm, a Q&A company without a web presence?).
My guess either an out-and-out scam, or a an attempt to pawn off a modified copy of PearPC in an attempt to generate some $ and scram. Ballsy.
Piss microsoft off by running a probably-pirated copy of macosx in a probably-pirated copy of CherryOS? I fail to see how this will offend BillyG.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Indeed. The Win2K machine I'm writing this from has been up since 30 June, and sees daily heavy use. Windows' reliability problems have been wildly exaggerated for the last 4 years, at least.
I miss that game.
Company claims 80% of the speed of your PC
Banu
... except that modern superscalar CPUs (certainly x86, and possibly newer PPCs also) don't work like that - the registers you write to in machine code are virtual, and are mapped on to a larger hidden register file in realtime by the CPU. In any case a sure-fire L1 cache hit has negligible latency compared to, well, pretty much anything else on an Intel cpu.
There are no Mac ROMs, and there haven't been any since at least 1998.
Even the classic Mac OS didn't need the ROMs anymore in its last incarnation.
The less-than-modern Macs had driver support for booting in its ROM, and loaded the Toolbox from a file in the system folder (it's named "Mac OS ROM", though). Modern Macs use OpenFirmware, which is, as the name says, open. Moreover, it's easily emulated, allowing for running OS X on arbitrary PPC machines (with MOL). Yes, that means e.g. Genesis or AmigaOne boards. Or anything with a PPC, really.
or comparing Cherries to Pears?
Natural Selection: self-destruction of the poor and lazy
(and in true /. fashion, I blurt them out without even trying to seek an answer on my own)
1) Does the emulator require formatting of a disk partition as HFS+, or does it emulate the disk, introducing additional overhead and delay?
2) Does it require that the video card be something that OS X recognizes and just pass control of the screen to the guest OS, or does it present some sort of translation of a screen into a window, or does it just let OS X know that there will be no Quartz Extreme GPU acceleration, and expect an emulated Altivec unit to handle it? (lol)
I don't know what planet you're living on, but all the "creativity apps" I can think of would absolutely be CPU-bound.
iMovie is CPU-bound, iDVD is CPU-bound, iPhoto is (less) CPU-bound, Photoshop is, of course, CPU-bound. Apple's newest pro apps almost certainly won't even run, with their absolutely monstrous system requirements...
If all you want to do is use Safari and Mail, you could probably pick up a used Mac for the same $50 Cherry's charging (and not violate the EULA or find out Cherry's full of shit).
Sure, it's an added bonus- don't get me wrong. But there are those of us that feel like we're STUCK with the hardware and would LOVE to have ANYTHING cheaper and/or more expandable.
:P
I think SGI's a better example of The Hardware- intensely awesome 3d and visualization capabilities, but you never hear anyone talking about how SGI should port IRIX to x86.
I just Xbenched my installation of Mac OS X on PearPC over WinXP.
It's an AthlonXP 3000 (oced to 2400MHz or thereabout) box with 1GB RAM. I've assigned 512MB for PearPC.
The overall score is indeed abysmal 2.89. For comparison, my PB 12" (867MHz) gets something in the range of 80, I think.
But if I look at the score more closely, I notice that major drag comes from vecLib FFT test (scored 0.15!) and all kinds of graphics test (OpenGL test being the worst).
For other things, it scores about 30 to 60 scores range. Disk test is pretty impressive. I only have a regular ATA drive on my PC. Got the score better than my PB disk.
These results are quite understandable considering what PearPC is doing. I would say for some tasks, this might even be usable.
Very impressive, I must say.
Ah... dual Apple G5 workstations are cheaper than the equivalent Xeon or Opteron workstations, not to mention that dual 2.5GHz G5's can outperform any available x86 workstation at some tasks.
Throw in the cost of Fibre Channel interconnects, and the price difference is even greater.
The only place where Macs are not price competitive is the high performance single processor gaming rig w/o a monitor. That's because Apple doesn't have one, instead Apple chooses to target consumers with an all-in-one design. Even that AIO is competitive against equivalent x86 offerings, but you can't remove the high quality and expensive LCD.
Don't you mean Eastasia?
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
5 words for all you "Crapple" owners:
SPINNING BEACH BALL OF DEATH
http://www.cherryos.com.nyud.net:8090/
Ok please don't take me for a troll, I really don't know any better!
But....what would this be good for? Except perhaps playing Escape Velocity which doesn't run as well on the PC? Is there really any software you can't get for PC thats only available on the MAC? Besides MacOS that is....
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
I haven't turned off or reset my Power Book in over 4 months
Hmm.. you sound like a typical non-Windows user - you don't actually *do* anything with your computer. My Powerbook lasts about a week of use before it needs a reset. Browsing web, writing documents, playing music, SSH'ing, compiling, debugging, 3D apps, copying files == it will eventually crash. At it's worst (before the latest 10.3 patch seemed to clean things up a bit), I've had it lock up after a day of use... hard-lock, too - you know, when you then have to remove the battery to get the damn thing to shut off because the "soft" power switch becomes non-responsive?
You won't get the "Mac advantage" because it'll crash, hang, stall - you name it. It will behave like any normal windows app.
Sorry, but I've not yet used an operating system that has never done this. Try running Linux someday - chances are you'll get an X11 lockup within a few days (if your hardware is even supported) if you try to do anything more than stare at the desktop. Stability should not be a reason to choose Mac over Windows - Windows 2000 and Windows XP are both very stable, mature operating systems - when looked after properly. In particular, W2k would bluescreen regularly (network driver crash) until I replaced the network hardware (Linksys hardware == buggy). And MacOS is not as immune to crashes or hacks as you think - it just depends on how hard and loose you use it.
I love my Powerbook, but it's not bulletproof.
I don't know about alot of people, but I have only recently used apple computers running OS X. I really liked it alot, enough to make me consider switching even. Now there is a whole world of people who don't have a clue about using apples and barely even know they exist. This may open up OS X to a whole new group of people who may be tempted to buy an apple after their first taste of using OS X emulated on their home PC. What do you guys think?
There is no reason why Cherry would have to get Apple's blessing for this if the emulator/translator emulates the PPC on an x86 box. Apple does not make the PPC chip and if none of Apple's code is used, they will not be able to sic their lawyers on Cherry.
Using the word "impossible" is dangerous. There have been too many times in history where such sentiments were expressed by skeptics, but what "could not be doen" was done, often to the chagrin of such skeptics. The proof of the pudding is of course easily checked out. Risk $50 +$130 for the Mac OS and try it.
All theory is gray
Are you a politician or what?
Why not just run BSD natively? Maybe you really like Garage Band or all that other wonderful OSX specific software. Okay Mr. Snerdley. Yes, I do understand that you might want to develop for a Mac. Unless you "REALLY NEED" OSX for the sofware you're writing, OSX will support your Linux software with a recompile. BTW, I'm writing this to you from my Mac. :)
If the memory block used for register emulation is locked in L1 cache, it should be much faster than memory access and still comparable to register access, shoudn't it?
Was able to get to the server, but got this message:
::: contact us :::
/.
Our Server is getting hit with unbelievably high traffic, and some people are trying to hack in too. Please be patient and check back with us soon... - CherryOS Team !
CherryOS - Introduction
CherryOS - Demo
~~~~~~
Trying to hack into us... Hmmm.. they must not know about
For one thing, I just did a couple of whois on cherryos.com, all of whose contacts are listed as arben kryeziu, whose email is given as arben@bumpnetworks.com. Do a whois on bumpnetworks.com (which is a run of the mill web development company according to its website) and you get all the tech contacts as arben@kryeziu.com, which is a simple holding site, obviously the guy's own.
Now, this Arben Kryeziu guy is the one in the, of all things, java video player on the video link site.
So this guy has time to run a web development company, be the tech and admin contacts for all the sites, and run a PPC emulation development outfit on the side? I seriously doubt it.
Not that it might be possible, who knows, but companies such as Connectix (now owned by Microsoft) spent literally years, getting their x86 emulators up to about 1/4 of the speed of the host PPC CPU. And this guy has done it on his own, with a tiny outfit in no time and with no news announcements, and got it to run at 3/4 the host x86 system? I doubt it again.
And then, he sells the whole thing for $50????? And only by electronic download???? With a PDF manual that closely resembles the PearPC effort???? Has anyone actually downloaded this and paid the guy his $50???? Has anyone seen it run???
Even in that weird video (why no wmv, why no real, why no quicktime?) where he supposedly "demonstrates" the application, you don't actually see it running.
My guess is that, if the application really does run, it is simply a PearPC wrapper and runs at around 1/10th or less of the host speed. (Notice the typical marketing "up to 80% of the host" x86 system?)
I have nothing against Albanians (Kryeziu is an albanian name, listen to the guy's accent), but I think the guy is trying to make a quick buck off the hopefuls who want Mac OSX but won't or can't buy a Mac.
We'll see when the first real reports come in of how and if this thing performs, but if it truly is what he claims it to be, which I seriously doubt, then he has one big hurdle and that is Apple's EULA, which states that Mac OSX is only allowed to be run on Apple branded hardware.
It was obviously the wrong mouse button, not the right one as you seem to believe.
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
Isn't apple darwin supposed to be macos open source?
I thought darwin was to macos what openoffice is to star office...
Come on, a dynamic recompiler is not that hard to do. It was on the research level in the late 80's and early 90's, commercialized in the 90's, and there are already several dynamic recompilers implemented by single graduate students. A motivated team of very smart people can do it, it's just a matter of the right circumstances.
seems similar to way back when car companies wanted to try and ban aftermarket parts that would fit their cars.
These various EULAS and IP laws need some class action lawsuits to straighten that IP "it's a product and we sell it, no lease it, we have patents lookout... no it's not a product and no warranty" dichotomy. Along with "*own* it today on DVD" commercials.
Yes, that means e.g. Genesis or AmigaOne boards. Or anything with a PPC, really.
Wow, the Genesis had a PPC! Sega must have had some really shitty programmers back in the day! There's no excuse for losing the 16-bit wars with a 64-bit processor. I guess that means that Macs have always been Power Macs, too, huh?
I did some searching on google and yahoo, and I found nothing besides a note on an cached copy on yahoo of www.mbloom.co that says that the cherryos is moving to an own site (www.cherryos.com), google hasn't even indexed the page (that doesn't really tell us too much...) yet. The cached page on yahoo is broken :(
The mloom site sells an pdf2html converter....
This looks like something Apple will sue into oblivion faster than the MPAA took out 321 Studios. There's a time issue for the purchase, therefore. On the other hand, there are questions as to whether these folk are on the level, or are just out to steal credit card numbers. I have an unused platinum card; easy to monitor, and I was thinking of cancelling it anyway.
An additional concern: what does this install? Yes, a PPC emulator with no operating system, if they're not an outright fraud. (I wonder if I can put OS 9 on as well....) But are there deliberate or accidental security holes? Spyware? Were they stupid enough to go gold with a virus in the system?
I haven't bought VMWare, but I did pick up Virtual PC last Christmas so I could continue playing Master Of Orion (the original) after my 486 ate a power surge. So, yeah, my first test will be running OS 9 and OS X on CherryOS on Windows 2000 Advanced Server on Virtual PC on a P4 Windows 2000 machine, on an isolated subnet.
OK, so maybe "paranoid" would be a better choice than "cautious". =)
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Sam
My powerbook g4 will need to be pried from my cold, dead fingers on my way out of town (the hardware is as good as the software, even if my crotch gets a burning sensation after a few hours), but do you think this could at least become stable running in a virtual environment that provides some standard hardware from the virtual-os's point of view?
Note that the press release mentioned translation as their method, rather than emulation, so the speeds aren't completely impossible.
Either way, sure would be nice to test websites in safari at work!
are really cool and Mac only!
That was a bad movie
They promised a PPC emulator for a loooong time.
take a look at the poser in that forum making a big noise about this "wonderful emulator", the guy called DAG33K. Notice his English mistakes. Notice his location, "In da middle of da pacific". The do a whois on cherryos.com, and you get an address in Hawai. The tech contact, who is also the admin contact etc etc, is a guy called Arben Kryeziu, the same guy doing the video "demonstration", which you never get to actually see apart from an installation screen and some supposed OSX desktop, which looks very similar to PearPC. The guy's name is Albanian, and if you listen in that demonstration, he speaks with a thick accent, so my gues is that the poster on hardforum is the very same guy trying to pimp his warez.
I still think the guy is trying to fuck everyone for their money.
No the genesis had a 68000 series processor, not a PPC. Old macs weren't powermacs either, they were also 68000 series processors.
Honestly, anything that requires heavy calculations is either going to break the emulator or run abysmally slow. Although email and web browsing can be tollerable (I often proof webpages using VirtualPC to get a view from the other side of the pond), I can't see any of the iLife apps being usable under CherryOS. They typically tax my 800MHz iMac. I can't imagine how slowly they would run under emulation...
Fun with Inkwell | www.coo
I have not worked with or even looked at either instruction set. Nonetheless your average application will spend only a small percentage of its time using Altivec...
Maybe you should go and get some experience or at least some knowledge before you start talking about something you know nothing about.
Altivec from its beginning introduced 162 vector instructions that have not changed from the initial G4 to the current G5. On the other hand, Intel's MMX/SSE/SSE2 instructions have evolved over time - roughly 57 in MMX, 78? in SSE and 144 in SSE2. Altivec has been a well-designed and versatile SIMD engine from its beginning while Intel has sort of hacked together their SIMD engine as they've evolved their processors. Intel's implementation is very troublesome for a programmer because he has to do many different things depending on what is available (MMX/SSE/SSE2). These instructions don't map 1:1 for the most part with Altivec. And while SSE2 is much better than SSE, it was only introduced with the Pentium 4.
Also, Altivec has 32 128-bit registers to only 8 128-bit registers for SSE/SSE2. I don't care what anyone says, trying to emulate 32 registers (when all you have is 8) in an SIMD engine is going to be a lot slower.
You say that only a small percentage of time will be spent using Altivec, but that's just not true. Apple has optimized a large part of Mac OS X to use Altivec, especially in Quartz (the windowing and compositing engine). This would result in a major slowdown for any emulator in pretty much every application (except for stuff like background daemons). You'd probably do better just to emulate a G3 so as to not run any Altivec code.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
I know this isn't a perfect suggestion, but if they open sourced the underlying operating system then they could rely on community support to port drivers from linux/bsd architectures.
Then they'd be in a redhatish way supplying a certified OS base with a proprietory graphical interface.
Linuxes out of the box support for hardware on modern systems is pretty reasonable now, and i'm sure Apple would be able to have a "Certified for MacOS X86".
Having said that - apple's current stategy makes perfect sense so long as PowerPC's are available and keep getting faster.
MXS Releases Cherry OS PC to Mac Conversion Software.
Their article points to MXS, which is also down, but it has a cache in google. Nothing about Cherry OS in that cache. The wayback machine is down, so nothing to check there either.
I'm sorry but drinkypoo doesn't know what he's talking about. Follow this thread a bit more to see where he's wrong.
His comment is anything but informative or insightful.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
you limit the build spec for the PC. .
Specifc motherboard, specific sound card, specific video card, etc. .
Also, sell OSX systems.
For example, Dell makes 10,000 PC to an exact parts specs and sell then untis to consumers.
now, you and I knwo some people will try to intall it on different speced PC, but that becomes theire problem.
"Do you think Jobs could just snap his fingers one day and a few months later have a product on the shelves that would run perfectly on every PC capable of running XP today?"
He did with the iPod.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The boot chime (or the hong as I like to call it) is stored in the ROM, which is Apple proprietary and not a part of any PC motherboard.
... as it was finishing booting up and Finder was visible, etc...
So, to answer your question, no, it won't.
Although, you could grab the boot chime from the net or sample one yourself and configure it to play the sound, but it wouldn't play at the right point in time, at the start of the boot, rather
Yes, It's a fake. Most Nigerian scam letters have much poorer grammer.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Man. These guys really need to support Linux!
I'd give them $100 to be able to run OSX on my hardware! I'm considering buying a Mac for just this purpose and having the hardware will certainly change things...
Kevin
I'd be real interested to see if the OS X EULA allows the software to be run on non-Mac hardware. Anyone got theirs handy?
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
... try at least once to run virtual pc from your... pc running CherryOS which, of course is... running panther osx... which is running...
Do you bongo?
...but I think it should be modded up insightful. Unless these guys did something amazing, 80% just to emulate the hardware doesn't seem too far-fetched, on today's processors. -Dan
From the main web page:
/.'ed
"Our Server is getting hit with unbelievably high traffic, and some people are trying to hack in too. Please be patient and check back with us soon... - CherryOS Team !"
Hacked? Guess they never heard of the ultimate net.compliment - being
Just a nostalgic "hi hi" for those that did so. I ran 1.0 and 2.0 for a few years back yonder.
"And whoever steve@mac.com is, would you please stop trying to hack our server?"
My new
This is all fine and well that you can emulate OSX on a PC. As mentioned before, you can already do that on PC running Linux. But Cherry OS is really not an OS if you have to still go out and buy the Mac OS. And losing 20% of your system's performance? No Thank You. I'm not that hard up to use a Mac. Now, forgive me if I am wrong, but can we not already get a version of Linux that actually runs an OSX like desktop - no loss of performance - and you can run open source apps instead of insanely expensive OSX applications. So in order to think Cherry OS is cool - you have to think: 1. It's cool to loose performance. 2. It's cool to pay more for the same software. I don't buy this... I wont buy this. I've been looking for a new OS... and this isnt going to be it. I'm not sure which one I'm going to roll with, but I'm leaning Gentoo or SUSE.
MadOgre.com
I run dosemu just to run Fractint. The original from Stone Soup is still by far the best. At version 20.0, not a typo.
Fractint at UBC
User hostile though ... just how I like it ;).
I'm actually going to reveal something you may not know...
... I did an unupublished interview with the head of FWB ... he stated that they simply licensed the code rather than bought it from Insignia. The reason they never released an update after leasing the code was because they didn't see any merit at the time in releasing a new OS X version.
Both Connectix and Insignia (the two main companies that produced Windows emulation for the Mac) were actually just venture capital firms. This is why Connectix, at the height of every product launched, would just sell it off as an asset.
Connectix Quickcam = Logitech Quickcam
Connectix Virtual Game Station = Sony Buyout
Connectix Virtual PC ( at an undeniable breakthrough point) = Microsodt VPC
Insignia was the same:
Softwindows
Insignia is supposedly shopping this around.
I have found that these two companies were essentially started up by venture capital and paid off their investors, dumped their employees, and the owners got filthy rich.
Now, as for this software. I find it NEXT to impossible that the software is running a G4 at 80% speed of the CPU. If you were to translate this properly - Apple's CPUs are about 1.2X as fast as the equivalent P4 and P3 (G3 & G4 respectively) - so essentially the claim is saying it will run a 100% equivalent Mhz / speed ratio.
This means if I had a 3Ghz Pentium 4 with 1 Gig RAM - I would have the equivalent of a 2.4Ghz G4!! There's just NO way!
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
there exists two kinds of gpr, physical, and architected. the PPC has 32 architected registers to x86's 8, so assembly code only thinks you have 8 and sure it can rename but the code written for PPC is compiled and optimized to take advantage of the 32 Arch reg and x86 will choke trying to convert it.
Since when has ANYONE on /. been concerned with breaking a license agreement?!?!? It's practically the main FOOS cause!
Oh yeah, and the added cat ears. Silly goose...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
...it equates copyright infringement with theft, rape, and murder on the high seas. Arrrr, walk the plank!
If it crashed, what's happens when you press the wrong mouse button?
"I seem to have mastered a certain amount of control over physical reality."
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web
funniest. post. ever.
Is not "worthwhile". It's slow and asinine.
I *hope* this doesnt require Windows, as implied in the comment. That would totally suck. If it runs on a bare x86 hardware it might be worth the $49.
PS2 ports actually are supported - the HID is no differnt than ADB
I have a PS2 keyboard and a PS2 mouse hooked up to my Mac via a USB to PS2 adapter - no drivers.
Also you have to remember that Power Computing actually released a clone with PS2 and ADB ports, they required no special drivers.
The only difference - besides the pin configuration - is the voltage - ADB had 2 more volts and could chain 6 devices.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
The amount of interest this story generated (CheryOS' site is already slashdoted) shows clearly how many people would love to run OS X, but can't afford the hardware. In fact I'm one of those people - I hate Windows, but I'm too old to tweak with Linux. Apple's OS X is the best choice for the likes of me - easy to use, tons of good commercial software for the desktop user, no frustrating tweaking and adjusting to get it working and no Microsoft. However, prices of their hardware are murder when compared to the PC world. I know there are many good reasons for that, but what has bothered me for some time now is why Apple won't release OS X for Intel platform.
In fact OS X is a really great, consequently designed GUI on top of a robust BSD Unix. It should be rather portable by nature, even if it would have high hardware requirements (like lots of memory and fast graphic boards with again lots of memory). Possibly achieving binary compatibility for software would be a problem, but I don't think it would be necessary. After all on a Unix system porting software between hardware platforms is just a question of recompiling it. Now, why don't they try to do it?
As much as I hate paying Microsoft for XP I would gladly pay twice the price of OS X for Mac to be able to run it on PC. Why Apple won't do it? Maybe because they don't want to get into Microsoft's gun sight?
http://www.cherryos.com/frontpage.aspx
... has popped its cherry?
*places pinky finger to corner of mouth like Dr. Evil*
- Danny
Take the CUPS printing or OpenGL or Quicktime. All run well on intel already. Darwin is largly based on FreeBSD. Darwin already works on intel. Quartz Extreme runs on OpenGL.
The driver system is quite different; however, its open sourced, and I read its a better design.
Much of the apple stuff is running on top of darwin OS. So if you get darwin working well, the rest will follow.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Like the parent says, they use OpenFirmware (which is a fully programmable Forth environment) now instead of a closed ROM. Nobody is arguing that Apple is no longer using ROM, they're just saying that they're no longer using the closed Mac ROM.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
This could work out. The reasons why I would NOT get a mac are that they are slower and cost MUCH more than equivalent PCs, but more importantly, can't run Windows. Meaning that they can't run my games. And trust me, Cedega under Linux on PowerPC isn't going to run them much better than a Palm would run Unreal Tournament--I have friends that have tried, and, uh, friends that have failed. But now that Mac OS X is available on the PC (and is fast), perhaps I can use a fast, cheap PC to run OS X. But a problem I see is that... Macs only have a chance vs. PCs because they have very efficient architecture. Apple doesn't have nearly enough money to compete with Intel or AMD, so they use a more efficient architecture. But since they write the OS also, they can take advantage of that. However, OS X applications will run quite slow under Windows machines because they are optimized for PowerPC, not x86. So I expect that OSX will not actually be used for much serious video/image editing... it may end up becoming more of a novelty than an actual useful OS.
Where are the mod points when you need them? That's a pretty brazen scam and I hope not too many people got hooked. Actually, this slashdotting may have helped.
Apple sells both.
Microsoft forces 3rd parties to be their slaves.
In fact, its microsoft's fault that we are in a software market today:
The hardware model is far better for everyone. You pay a lot for hardware, and it covers the cost of the software. Open source works much better with a hardware business model.
The software business model makes hardware disposably cheap and screws you with the software / support model. Its this model taken to the extreme that has cause the rebellion against microsoft. And the birth of open source...
BullSHITE!!! Maybe this thing can emulate a first generation G4 350-500 (SloooOOooow,) but without the advantadges of AltiVec.
You presume that the emulator is running on a real PC, rather than one itself emulated on, say, Virtual PC for Mac.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Isn't that like putting a Porche engine in a VW bug? Using OS X is a great experience. Why ruin it with the Windows problems in the background.
Okay, well noone is chiming in that they have first hand experience with this product. How can that be if this is a legit product?
I think it has to be a hoax at this point.
Isn't this like the super-emulator that was announced while back? The one that supposedly could run any binary from Linux on Windows and vice versa?
"copied my software without my permission," I mean.
A short article appeared on the Wisconson Technology Network, among other places, whose author evidently ran into Aren Kryeziu at a hotel on the Big Island of Hawaii, and talked briefly about Maui X-stream. Unfortunately, the company office is in Wailuku, rather than the Maui tech park in Kihei, so I'll have to wait until lunch to drive over to check 'em out. Among the techno clique I've talked to in the tech park, nobody has heard of these guys. In all fairness, it's not unusual for someone to cut loose from the rat race in San Jose for a house on Maui, doing their own thing at the home office
Luke, help me take this mask off
"In the latter form, you have deprived no-one of use of their property. You have however, attempted to derive personal benefit from something for which you have not paid."
Bingo! The essence of piracy. All the other semantic sleight of hands, and logic games ignore that very point, and they extend it by willfully allowing others to do the same.
"On legal grounds your definition of theft appears unsound."
Most here aren't lawyers, and don't understand that a dictionary doesn't make you one. Although a thesaurus will help.
"However in 20th century statutes using the word "theft" began appearing which no longer rely on that old definition."
The world changes and the law changes with it (like they keep telling us businesses should), and yet slashdotters will stick with the old while ignoring the new. How very progressive of them.
"Admitting that it is an illegal act, but insisting it is not theft is mere hair splitting."
One has to wonder in all the cases of p2p pirates being sued, why haven't their lawyers (or them) used all these brilliants statements that we are graced with every day, as part of their legal defense?
I have nothing against Albanians
I have almost everything against Albanians.
smoove dc beats
> the registers you write to in machine code are virtual, and are mapped on to a larger hidden register file in realtime by the CPU
Yes, register renaming help but as the compiler don't see those hidden register, it may have to spill some value into the cache to free a register because it needs one and here the register renaming can't help you..
I think that the x86-64 good performance is partly because of this: going from 8 GPR to 16 is a big win, especially on x86 *ahem* less than orthogonal architecture).
The difference between 16 and 32 GPRs is much less interesting..
"Yeah but they suck right? This is Slashdot right? Microsoft still sucks? Come on, somebody, what's the official party line on this?"
If Microsoft released a PornOS, then sucking would be OK.
If the Dag33k guy (mentioned in above posts) is really the same guy from the 'showcase'-video.
Then you should really check his previous posts on that forum.
Sure 's a cheap to test his company's video servers... Getting it slashdotted.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=813258
Join Date: May 2003
Location: da middle of da pacific
Recomend an independent testing company
Aloha-
I have been given the task to find an independent testing company to test the throughput of my company's video servers and I need your help. Can anyone recomend such a company? Experience with the particular company is a plus. What we are looking for is a messure of simultaneous users (max) and total throughput on the server.
Mahalo
dag33k
We get OS X and everything, but for free unlike these mac users who pay 3000$US hahaha...
Abandoning PowerPC isn't the same as abandoning hardware lockin.
They could release a hardware PowerPC board bundled with the OS however. Like the good old days.
...MacOS emulates YOU!
the future is but past forgotten
It's G4 Emulation which is just fine and they say they're working on G5 emulation.
IMO if this is the real deal then were looking at Apple seeing that there is a true demand for OS X on the x86 and 64bit platforms. They may begin to see ways to make money selling the OS + Support for those companies. Hardware manufacturers already make MAC drivers for many products and it's not that hard to convert those drivers for use on a x86 version of OS X. Furthermore Nvidia and ATI both have Mac drivers and if there was sudden demand they would probably work their collective arses off getting drivers out ASAP.
Either this is PearPC with a fancy GUI or they 'borrowed' some code from PearPC. On the video of their installer you can see macosx_3gb.rar being copied. The HD files for PearPC have to be a specific size so only a select few work.
Also, no one has made a foolproof HD creator that works 100% so obviously CherryOS couldn't steal that. That's why their profile setup only allows 3GB or 6GB HDs. That's what is available for PearPC.
"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
It's just a marketing stunt, there's no such thing as cherryos.
w ww.vx30.com/pages.php%3Fpid%3D5%26sub%3D2+vx30&hl= nl
Look at the guy on the picture, looks familiar to anyone?
google cache:
http://www.google.be/search?q=cache:lzE-NlLlubUJ:
image:
http://www.vx30.com/images/vmail.jpg
I heard that this Arben Kryeziu fellow started marketing this application called "386to486.exe"...
Love the Third Amendment?
Possibly a version of PearPC, 'up to 80%' is usual because hardware access via native drivers is usually very fast, but overall application speed is were emulators fall down. Yet to see an emulator better than 30% of host speed. People still think that Apple computers need ROM, and that people rumb sticks together to make fire, and that the wheel will never find a useful purpose. Apple wont shut them down if it is marketed as a PPC emulation, that happens to run MacOSX or any other PPC based OS. Can we all calm down now?
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Maybe it hasn't been tried for Apple software, but at least one EULA was declared enforceable in an U.S. court. Sad, isn't it?
Longer pipeline and built-on hardware code evaluation units can mitigate some of the altivec stuff. Think of it as you would if it was your project and it does seem possible to get a reasonable level of performance out. Besides, the processors are way faster than most consumers need anymore. Probably rotten at graphics, but thats not the whole strength of the Mac experience, is it?
2. Inordinate amount of time spent visiting rumor sites to find out when emulation will be sped up.
3. Funny, this beige computer case clashes with the drapes; I never noticed that before...
but please tell all the people using older, non-MacOS X machines this.
The Windows 95 and Mac OS 9 operating systems are no longer supported by their respective publishers. Not all small businesses can afford to obtain and keep a Mac OS 9 environment around. Realistically, how much business would you lose if you stopped testing for pixel-perfect layout on end-of-lifed web browsers, such as Netscape 4.x, IE 4.x or 5.0 for Windows, or IE for Mac, instead feeding a more basic layout to obsolete web browsers?
It's probably the best browser available for that platform
Doesn't Opera 6.x run on Mac OS 9?
Whatever happened to that Iranian high school student in Ireland who allegedly wrote that souped-up web browser?
Reading the article, it says that it claims full hardware support, and lists:
" It also includes full hardware support: hard drive, CPU, RAM, FireWire, USB, PCI, PCMCIA bus, Ethernet networking and modem."
No graphics card listed. Usually, that's not a big problem, BUT, Mac OS X uses Quartz Extreme to render all the windows in 3d with shadows and fancy coloring. No graphics card = horrid windowing performance.
So does this use graphics card? Because if it doesn't, we're going to have choppy windows jumping around, performance loss when you move the mouse over the dock, choppy Expose, etc. And graphics card isn't listed.
It's really nice that you're so plugged into the open source community that you missed, for example:
- All the optimization stuff they've folded into gcc
- All the fixes they've folded back into the BSD code tree
I'm sure there's more, those are just the two categories that I've actually used and found helpful.
And, of course, the 'overly restrictive license' is considered to be a 'Free Software' license by the FSF. It's not gnu-compatible (for which I am awfully glad) and it (oh horrors!) allows linking to proprietary non-free software. Since I am not a gnu zealot, I find those things to be positive benefits, not drawbacks.
But, of course, the facts never stopped an Anonymous Coward before, so why should they now, eh?
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
PC users buying Mac OS, PC users buying Mac OS software, PC users going 'Hmm Mac is great, I think I'll just buy a Mac for my next computer'. Basically it way lowers the bar for introduction to the platform, seems like a MASSIVE win for Apple.
How realistic is this? If they think they're already getting the Mac experience (they wouldn't be, but that's the beside the point), what's the motivation to buy a different machine if the current situation is "good enough?"
What you've suggested is one possible scenario, but I don't see anything that indicates how likely it is.
The iPod is different because it gives them one a small sampling of Apple product design. You clearly can't do the same things with an iPod as an iMac, though, so there's really motivation to look into it further.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
First, while IE/Mac isn't supported anymore, there are some people who still use it.
Do Safari, IE/Mac, iCab, OmniWeb, and other Mac-only web browsers constitute enough userbase to persuade a small business to fork over four figures for a decent Mac OS X machine?
As long as it has a userbase, there's a reason to test it.
<sarcasm>There's still an Apple II userbase.</sarcasm> How much of a userbase is worth how much developer time and money?
there are still Safari improvements that aren't in Konqueror
So if you have the latest release of Konqueror, or whatever they call their equivalent to Mozilla's nightly build, you'll probably have the improvements from Safari one or two versions back. How up-to-date do most Safari users keep their installations? And are there really a lot of significant rendering differences between KHTML-based Safari and a Gecko-based browser?
Last time I tried it tho, KDE-Cygwin was slow and buggy as hell
I'd guess that it's a lot cheaper for a small business to buy and maintain a cheapass Linux box (either this way or this way or even this way) than to buy and maintain a Mac.
CherryOS.com is down so I can't check for sure, but from what I've read so far, CherryOS does not support sound. I find it odd that PearPC and CherryOS would have this particular feature in common.
I've just spent a few days playing around with PearPC on an AMD 2400+ laptop with 512 Mb memory. OSX runs fine but a bit slow, kind of like a 233 Mhz machine running XP. Network and CDRom access work great, but of course no sound yet.
Honestly if I worked for Apple, I wouldn't mind PearPC as long as it did not become fast enough to be a proper alternative to actually buying a Mac. From the forum on PearPC's site, many people have posted that getting this taste of OSX has helped them to "make the switch".
For those of you who want to play with Mac emulation, have a look at http://www.emaculation.com/ .
The message on the main site has changed to: "Our Server is getting hit with unbelievably high traffic - the Slashdot Effect hit us by surprise. The shopping cart will be up shortly, please be patient." Apparently they are ready to cash in.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
http://forums.pearpc.net/viewtopic.php?t=1237
Yeah, but because you can't address these extra registers, they're useless for emulation purposes. All this does is let you have more inflight instructions (google for Tomasulo)
And as a side note, the G3/G4/G5 PPCs probably have those as well, since they're not a x86 specific thing. I know that the 604 does, and it's a generation 2 PPC.
No really... rebooting for a mere driver upgrade is rediculous. So is rebooting after an application installs itself! I can't think of a shoddier design than one that requires the entire computer to restart itself just for an application install.
/etc for thirty minutes" after compiling a driver.
And I've never, in my entire GNU/Linux using history, had to "crap around in
People balk at having to compile drivers too... but in reality most driver compilations take less than a minute (even on older hardware) which is significantly less than the average download time of most bloaty windows drivers.
You suggest that not wanting to reboot a PC once in a while is some form of psychological disorder, but I guarantee you if you took a poll gave people a choice: would you rather reboot, or not reboot. 99% of the people will choose `not reboot', likely including yourself... and the other 1% are the psychologically damaged ones you spoke of.
Once you get used to an operating system that doesn't require so many reboots, trust me, if you had to go back you would experience more than just mild frustration.
Your portrayal of Connectix may be unfair. Connectix had deep Mac roots, in fact, it's the company that produced Mode32 for the Mac II line that allowed machines that were originally not 32-bit clean to address more than 8MB of RAM. For years this was a godsend to Mac users with older systems -- a IIcx from the factory could only use 8MB RAM (around 1988), but with Mode32 you could shove in up to 128MB RAM. As you note, that product was eventually licensed by Apple and distributed for free, but had it not been, Connectix would have still made a killing on it.
Connectix also made a raft of utilities, including the enormously popular (with some people), if perhaps with somewhat misleading names, RAM doubler and Speed Doubler. At its height, Connectix was a leading Mac utility developer and had a reputation for knowing the Mac almost better than Apple (Connectix didn't know the Mac better than Apple, but their products made you wonder if perhaps they did -- there were very clever developers writing pretty slick software for Connectix). Anyway, the point is that while Connectix may or may not have been a venture capital holding company, the products that were released under its name were ingenious and extremely popular.
If the company's strategy was to produce software that could be sold out to third parties, the strategy worked because the software Connectix wrote was extremely popular, innovative, or important. I don't think the pattern diminishes the company's achievements at all. Also, in many of the instances of Connectix selling-out there were extenuating circumstances: before Mode32 there were hints of a possible class action lawsuit against Apple; Sony (if I recall correctly) sued Connectix over VGS; and VirtualPC had great strategic value to Microsoft.
When Connectix ceased to be, many in the Mac community observed a day of mourning for one of their fondly remembered names from the early days of Macintosh history.
Insignia was the same: Softwindows ... I did an unupublished interview with the head of FWB ... he stated that they simply licensed the code rather than bought it from Insignia. The reason they never released an update after leasing the code was because they didn't see any merit at the time in releasing a new OS X version.
Insignia is supposedly shopping this around.
I have found that these two companies were essentially started up by venture capital and paid off their investors, dumped their employees, and the owners got filthy rich.
;-)
Insignia still exist, as far as I know. But they no longer work on SoftWindows, which appears to have died quietly along the way somewhere. The core of Insignia's business in the UK was sold to Citrix Systems, which used the technology as a basis for the WinFrame/Metaframe thin client for Mac and Unix (Insignia were working on this concept based on their SoftWindows code base; Citrix already had a Windows solution, so it was a natural marriage). I'm not sure they were strictly venture capital firms, Insignia was going for years before Citrix bought them up - at least ten, SoftWindows was around in the very early 90s, and they had some real technology there. I don't know the real story about 'getting filthy rich' - there may be some truth in it, but Citrix took over Insignia's premises and most of their staff in High Wycombe, and Insignia themselves moved to a far smaller building in nearby Wooburn Green. What they actually do now I don't know. I worked for Citrix shortly after all this happened, so I know some of the guys who came across from Insignia, they all seemed fairly happy with the deal, especially considering the stock options they were given
Mine doesnt take 5 minutes.. and is useable once running.
Yes, its slow. but its useable on my hardware.. No worse then a 333intel trying to run XP...
Extra ram helps i do believe...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
On PowerPC there are load store instructions with
byte swap so that big endian PowerPC can have an
x86 emulater without much trouble. x86 does not
have such a thing (maybe in MMX?). Isn't this just
a killer for any PowerPC emulator written on x86?
(note MacOS on PowerPC is big endian, NT on PowerPC
was little endian, AIX, AS/400 are all big endian)
PearPC has not jitc_x86_64 core yet. The only way to use the full x86-64 bit performance would be to compile using the generic core. And guess what? That's the snails pace version.
You're better off compiling an ia32 binary with the jitc_x86 core rather than generic core with the x86-64 settings.
But we expect that using the x86-64 for the jitc would definately help.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Heck. Just send the guy your credit card number! This is so cool! Just like the 90's!. He has a MAC emulator, hosts the demo's on mauionline.com - which he's also the registered owner of. It's like synergy! Maybe it's an incubator?
Sign me up!
The G4, and the G5 definately have rename registers.
But very true, the PearPC compiler can't address any of these extra registers at all. I've been thinking about working on something that would allow PearPC to reorder the instructions to attempt to reduce some of the overhead of swapping out registers and such.
But I don't expect this to happen anytime soon.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Our Server is getting hit with high traffic, and some people are trying to hack in too, so please be patient, we are working on it. We wont give up - CherryOS Team !
Fear is the path to the dark side.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate.
Hate, leads to suffering.
Generally I will doubt any claim that suggests they can run PPC code on x86 hardware at any considerable speed, such as 80%, or even 50% for that matter. The PPC chipset has more general purpose registers than x86, how they map around the instructions to fit on an x86 chipset is usually inadequet and some kind of register emulation must take place. Taking any register functionality off chip is a method of emulation, that works, however it's incredibly slow, by comparison to native speeds. This is why it's trivial to get good speeds out of x86 code on PPC chipsets through emulation, and why the reverse is usually a marketing scam.
OpenFirmware is entirely architecture independant. The drivers and everything are written in either Forth code, or FCode (a bytecode like format for the Forth code)
This means that it can use ANY architecture. Sun Microsystems uses OpenFirmware as much as Apple, and are one of the major parties to the OpenFirmware standards.
Likewise, the OpenBIOS program is working on making a standardized OpenFirmware implementation that will run even on x86 hardware.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
I kind of doubt that CherryOS will provide full access to the video card, which pretty much rules out Quartz.
I would hope it would just pass OpenGL straight through to the video card. That's about the only way it could even hope to get anything like reasonable performance: get the GPU to do as much of the heavy lifting as possible, because it's running at full speed instead of trying to convert each 3-operand PPC instruction to the corresponding 2-3 x86 2-operand instructions, which then get converted to Ghu only knows how many Pentium or AMD internal instructions...
Now that the seemingly Pacific sized wave of traffic has rolled over Hawaii based cherryos.com, some more information can be gleamed from it's now visible pages. Their press release contact is stated as Jim Kartes.
Jim also happens to be the admin and tech contact for vx30.com. A quick Googling of his name brings up several links, including the website for MauiGiclee, a Maui based printing company which lists one Jim Kartes as it's president. How many Jim Kartes can their be in Hawaii? 411.com lists only 1. Finding info online is fun.
Further Googling and whois searches show that Jim has a hand in many things Maui.
Lets list a few of em:
http://www.mauionline.com/ (Paradise Television Network Inc)
http://www.vx30.com/ (Video Steaming Tech)
http://mauigiclee.com/ (Print Production)
http://cherryos.com/ (Emulation Software)
I'm sure the list goes on. Jim's a busy man, you see.
Predictably, all these websites sport the same type of Java Applet video found on cherryos.com. Seems like VX30 (aka MXS Inc.) has been busy supplying Java based video steaming tech to a lot of Jim's other businesses.
At any rate, these businesses (excluding, by nature of this thread, the cherry in question) seem to have been operating for some time, the oldest site being registered in 1996. They also seem quite legitimate in their desire to provide services and products, bothering to list themselves with superpages, register 1-800 numbers, etc. These are not signs of scam artists looking to make a quick get-away, so that possibility can be put to rest.
The following options still remain:
1. CerryOs is a ripoff of PearPC (though the company has reportedly denied these accusations by phone)
2. The product is real and unique, though the performance promises are exagerated.
3. This is legit and we should all stop wasting time with such nonsense : )
I hope it's the latter.
And I've never, in my entire GNU/Linux using history, had to "crap around in /etc for thirty minutes" after compiling a driver.
Well now that's what I call luck. The last time I tried to set up ALSA on a Leenucks box I spent about two hours figuring out how to update the system, not to mention I had to spend about an hour trying to figure out why the driver would not compile to begin with - it turns out I had to 'touch' <linux.h> (amazingly so) in order to get it to work.
So assuming an average of thirty minutes (even if you're being slightly careful) and not even counting build times, I'd say "bloaty" Windows drivers are still better, even with a reboot.
Once you get used to an operating system that doesn't require so many reboots
I don't know what you do with your computer, but again, I don't "require so many reboots" except when I update drivers, install things like VS.NET or some such. And that's uncommon indeed. My computer stays on 24/7 and gets rebooted every weekend or so just out of habit, or when I apply a patch that requires a restart. I can always go smoke a cigarette or something while it comes up. It's not like I'm chained to the thing.
Windows reliability problems fall into two categories these days:
1-People still running Win9x, or repeating tales from those days
2-People who are infected with viruses/worms/spyware
OK, maybe 3-people with bad drivers or crappy hardware.
If you're not in these categories, odds are you have a stable windows machine.
Bah... you're totally side stepping the issue. My point was really that given a choice, you'd prefer not to reboot... especially since from a design standpoint, there's no real reason why a reboot should be required.
It's really the little things that show how much care and attention have gone into design. With OS X there's no "Apply" buttons... everything happens in real time... which is a very nice and appealing feeling. With Linux you can completely restart the entire networking core if you so desire, including fully unloading the drivers and reloading them... all without a reboot. I was shocked when I first discovered this, and then it dawned on me "Yeah... why shouldn't I be able to do that."
You're right... rebooting one or twice a week isn't really a big deal. But suggesting that not wanting to have to reboot your computer is some form of psychological disorder is a little frightening. I have to admit to being a computer scientist, so I care about design more on principal than most people... but I think if more people were exposed to a better designed system (even if it was just a version of windows that didn't require rebooting) they would certainly like it much better.
And just to address your troubles with linux drivers:
If you used a decent distribution you wouldn't have such configuration issues, or compilation issues. On Gentoo installing ALSA is as simple as selecting a sound card driver and typing "emerge alsa-driver" followed by "/etc/init.d/alsasound start" all of which is covered in great detail in the Gentoo ALSA tutorial. Not that you need it, but it's nice to have such resources available. Maybe if you knew where to look you wouldn't need to spend so much time mucking around with stuff.
There at one time was rumblings in the Wine world about a company that claimed to have created a Office 2000 Crossover component and was later accused (project David was proved to have copied Crossover) Now did CherryOS do the same with the PearPC. Take the free sourcecode and work like mad and then make a large claim to get people buying it. Make you suspicious.
Procrastinating life a way at a rapid rate of speed.
For more on this software, and issue, you can visit my site Apple-X.net: CherryOS: Interview With Creator, Plus Screenshots
OS X is heavily optimized with processor-specific functions, be it AltiVec optimizations for G4s or just a lot of black magic to make the Altivec-oriented code still run well on a G3. The next version is going to include features that offload a lot of processing to the graphics card. I'm sure they put little to no effort into making sure that any of their code above the Darwin will run properly on a little-endian machine.
That's potentially a whole lot of rewriting (and potentially creating a need to mantain yet another code branch for various portions of the OS) in order to get an OS that is still going to only work on a very small portion of the PC hardware out there. And I'm not talking "you won't be able to burn DVDs" not working, I'm talking "the OS won't run, period, because Core Image doesn't support your graphics card."
Which means that they will have a target market consisting of people like you who are willing to buy the one and only one OS X Approved PC. Of course, to make that available as something other than a homebuild, Apple will have to make it themselves. Which will probably make it end up costing not much less than any other Apple computer because it will end up being a solid magnesium pyramid with no visible apertures or seams or something like that because that's what Apple does.
At which point Apple has gone through a ridiculous wad of cash in order to make your Mac work less smoothly than other Macs. But at least it cost you $100 less.
Methinks Apple would be much wiser to spend that money on continuing to improve the value of their PPC hardware. Maybe that way they can save you $150 on a better computer, instead.
I don't know if this has been said, but the mac's have some pretty swank audio applications out there, I hope there is some sort of direct access capability to the audio hardware, i know I'm not going to be able to get multitrack recording to work, at least productively, but some of the master ing software, might run.
and I didn't see anything like that. Perhaps all of them were purchased by slashdoters...
Who cares if it doesn't run that good!!
it still is much prettier than windows..
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
"Apple paid 400 million dollars to buy NeXT. They then spent years of development effort integrating their older MacOS technologies to ensure backward compatibility."
That's all Apple's problem, not mine.
Grow up, use whatever is at hand. If apple lives and falls on whether I load OS X on an emulator, then they're stupider than they look. And that's saying something.
I'm curious, how much do you think the average salary of a developer is? How many people do you think are involved in production of commercial software/OSes from design/analysis to the store shelves?
If you think it goes from the PHB to the programmer, to the QA department and straight to the factory, then I laugh in your general direction.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
http://www.vx30.com/documents/CherryOS.pdf
CherryOS.
:)
For when you don't want a lemon!
There's no way you can emulate even a stripped-down PPC instruction set on x86 at 80% speed, let alone Altivec. The best I've seen any commercial editor come close to is a third, or maybe a half.
Okay, here's the deal. In theory you could probably run at 80% of the Mac code. B/S is what people say, Here is the theory:
First, you do NOT emulate the PPC instruction set. To do so IS to basically end up with the Pear PC.
Second, you create an assembler to assembler compiler. This has been done imperfectly in the past. But IF, and it is a very big if, you do manage to do so, you CAN get up to a theoretical 80%...
Finally, it is all lovely theory. But the reality is that it doesn't take much to kill these schemes. We've seen how hard it is to get code to run on REAL hardware, attempting to run OS X (recompiled) would be a freaking nightmare. Not to mention that eventually they will move to the G5. Then what?
So, I pretty much am looking at this as a B/S story. Not because of the "impossiblity", but because it sounds a lot like someone is going to give you something for free when basically they are going to give it to you in the end.
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
Quartz Extreme defaults to normal old Quartz without the fancy rendering effects if it detects a non-Quartz Extreme capable graphics system.
"Solaris For Intel"
I mean, look at all those people who tried out Solaris for Intel and said, "Man, I gotta one of those Sun boxes!"
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Oh, but it is Apple hardware. Whatever the Party says is is, and whatever it says isn't doesn't exist. Therefore, non-Apple hardware is non-existant, has never existed, and will never exist. I suppose I should finish that book sometime soon....
i think you're wrong on Connectix. they started out as a hard-core utility developer for the Mac, specializing in doing the undoable.
I think their first product was "Virtual" which brought virtual memory to the classic Mac OS circa System 6 or so.
They later did utilities like CopyDoubler to speed up copies in the finder, RamDoubler to increase the effective RAM in your system through dynamic compression and probably some others that I'm forgetting.
They did do the QuickCam as one of the first tethered PC cameras and built it into a successful business but hardware peripherals didn't really fit their business model so they sold it to Logitech, where it made much more sense.
Virtual Game Station was sold to Sony as part of a settlement agreement since Sony was sueing them out of business (small company vs big company...it probably made sense to get out while they were still alive).
VirtualPC (which actually came before Virtual Game Station) was also a successful must-have software in the Mac world but then MS bought them out...not sure what their reasons were but money was probably the motivator here.
but, their long history of Mac development really doesn't indicate the original poster's thesis of them being a venture capital dev firm.
Isn't that a guerilla marketing? The only good thing I saw was the VX30 codec (it was barely mentioned in their released document about the supposed Cherry OS). Their codec is really really good looking, written in java - means portable, no codecs need to be installed, and searching for "vx30 codec" on google reveals just a few pages. I definitely think it's guerilla marketing!
I'm sorry, but you appear to be absolutely clueless about the financial basis of Connectix.
Connectix never took so much as a dime of venture capital. The company "owned itself". It was bootstraped on software utility products (primarily on the Mac), and evolved and grew though numerous amazing technical achievements to a hardware and Windows application company. Unsurprisingly, it became the first company acquired by Microsoft after antitrust issues were removed.
Insignia was in fact VC funded, but it went public sometime before 1996 -- long before licensing residual rights for RealPC distribution to FWB.
You work for Apple?
Why does yahoo do this
I fully agree that people shouldn't pirate Mac OS. Apple has made their choices (Apple hardware only, proprietary GUI, etc.) and they should have to live with the consequences of their choices, both positive and negative.
Apple paid 400 million dollars to buy NeXT.
Well, while NeXT was a nice system for its time, it's not like NeXT was a particularly original company either; NeXT was based on an open source kernel (Mach) and a bunch of technologies from Stepstone, Adobe, and Xerox PARC.
If you are running a BSD Unix, or running Linix, chances are you are already benefiting from Apple contributions to open source projects on a daily basis.
As far as I know, Apple has made no significant contributions to any of the software I use on Linux. I can't even think of any software, technology, feature, or contributions from Apple I would want on my Linux system. In fact, the most important interaction between Apple and Linux users seems to be that Apple keeps advertising to Linux users wanting them to switch to OS X.
My bullshit meter is going off, seems a little bit "too goo to be true" the closest thing we what now is pearpc
Yeah.... I was suspicious of the same thing. At best, I figured this was sort of a "fork" of the PearPC project. Maybe they added some of their own code to handle some G4 specific functions and bundled it up with a cleaner installer/setup program. But I bet it's still just PearPC at the core.
Their screenshots I saw this morning on their web site were only depicting OS X's main desktop and finder screens. Never once did they show it running a single app! (That was the deal with PearPC too, wasn't it? At first, people could run OS X itself, view the finder, and the prefs panes - but that was about all it could do without crashing.)
Now, it looks like they're claiming people are "trying to hack the site" and so on, and they only have some video movie available to download/watch. I was getting horribly slow connections to them, but the first 50% or so of the video I watched only showed the program being installed on an XP box. (Big whoop! It has an installer program that can actually copy files over to the PC.)
(Incidentally, we watched the second Harry Potter movie on cable tonight. When the sixty foot basilisk first torpedoed from the sewer, scaring the crap out of everyone, I bellowed "A SNAKE, A SNAKE! AAARGH! SNAAAAAKE!" My sister shot chocolate milk from her nose.)
--All your stolen base are belong to Rickey Henderson
Mac OS X doesn't support ADB peripheral devices.
Here are some screenshots:P G
P G
P G
P G
.
I read they were taken by gene O'neil??? (not sure who he is)
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~achille/screenshots/1.J
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~achille/screenshots/2.J
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~achille/screenshots/3.J
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~achille/screenshots/4.J
Who the hell modded this bollocks insightful, window transparency, shadows, and various other pretty effects all existed prior to quartz extreme.
Everything still works without quartz extreme, as many of the machines still officially supported by OS X are not QE capable.
Please someone with a brain mod this down to -1 Troll where it should be.
I'll bet Apple with attempt to enjoin Cherry OS on the basis that it has no legitimate use. To utilize Cherry OS, you must load a copy of OS X into something other than the single Apple-labeled computer allowed by the EULA. There is no legal application for Cherry OS' software.
Surely Cherry OS has considered this and has prepared a clever answer for the inevitable cease and desist from Cupertino. But it had better be a very clever answer, indeed.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
(I'm still trying to buy the thing, but the purchasing portion of the site is down...)
This won't replace the majority of sound or video editing uses due to hardware decoding/timing/response issues unless there's some wicked interface to the DSP/decoders on the PC hardware.
This won't replace print workstations since most of the the Adobe, Macromedia and Quark stacks run as well on PC as on Mac (some non-linear editing apps aren't dual-platform, but those don't really matter to print).
This may touch the education market if the OS X interface is a priority, but Windows XP or any XWM that supports themes would be cheaper.
This might be useful for cross-platform developers, but testing anything other than presentation should be done on real hardware anyway.
Still, this may be useful for not carrying two different laptops around to support MS Access and hypercard...
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
Apple would have us buy one string guitars because they are easier to play! :)
For reasons of work I was forced to purchase a x86 laptop. I've been using a x86 PC and an iBook G3 before now. For portability I can only carry one, and it had to be the x86 laptop for work.
:)
But I do so detest it because my contacts are a mess, and my mail is being disemboweled by Thunderbird and my scheduler is pitiful (Sunbird).
(I will not use Outlook for portability and security reasons.)
So yesterday I installed OS X on PearPC, but it was hellishly slow and I'm still struggling with the networking (I think it's a problem with my coLinux hogging the TAP virtual network adaptor...)
Anyhow, $50 is actually quite a good price!
I'm buying it for sure!
EULA's and copyrights are dead. Just copy it all. Remember if they didn't want it copied they wouldn't have released it.
-- You're too stupid to be an atheist.
Dude, do we have parots on a shoulder? or sell copies on CDR for $5 ea? no, if we use an OS without paying for it, then its not pirating until you make a sale/profit from it.
So if I use a tool but it DOESNT improve my productivity and slows me down and causes me to loose 1000s of hours CAN I get a refund for each HOUR i have wasted? NO, I cant can I, otherwise MS would be bankcrupt from all the hours (500+) over the last 10 years that each OS has cost me personally in lost time due to their bugs/errors/failures/stupid errors messages.
For Linux I dont care since its free and didnt promise me anything, but at the same time hasnt lost me any hours besides learning a lot of it.
And btw I have paid for an ibook which by default Apple has made a tidy profit , especially since its outside USA with its higher margins.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
If not:
MathCad
ADAMS
Nastran
and any number of other engineering programs.
Bleeding TYPICAL - something like this comes out and you can bet it will never get ported to the Mac.
I wan't to run it on my PowerBook but I can't because they will only support Windows and maybe Linux.
I demand to be able to run OSX on my Ma... oh wait.
Really?
Why does my ADB mouse and ADB Keyboard work then?
If that were true they wouldn't be able to support almost 18% of their base that are running OSX on The beige G3 and the Blue and White - and then there's the few that have used the Xpostfacto utility - granted it's not ofiicially supported, but it DOES work with most ADB devices as they are for the most part - driverless.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I love my 200MHz 604 running OS 8, but if that's the kind of reliability you're getting with a Powerbook and OS X for real work I think I'll have to stick with Linux on Intel. That's a shame, because I had a G5 with Debian and MOL on my post-lottery wishlist too.
If their intention was to showcase their Java based video streaming codec then they did a bad job of it.
The video and sound quality of the intro and demo for CherryOS was less than desirable and not impressive at all, though that may be because they threw a cut down version of the videos up due to bandwidth problems. Who knows.
I've looked at other examples of their Java based video streaming and can't say I was any more impressed with those demos either.
I'd rather risk *your* $180, and let you know, if you don't mind.
Paradise Television Network is the listed owner of vx30.com. Jim Kartes.
this is a tourist oriented television chanel which also has a web site. http://www.mauionline.com
Here is the pertinent info for them.
Phone
808.661.5065
Fax
808.661.6131
Location
Paradise Television Network, Inc.
1024 Front Street
Lahaina, HI 96761
Is that what you call an x86 machine running MacOSX?
Hate (hah!) to be a pedant, but the only guarantee about the length of a short is that it is equal to or less than a long.
So your long could be 16 bits (on a 16-bit processor) and your short 8 bits. And then half of it would, indeed, be just a nybble.
On a 64-bit machine, in theory, a short could be 32 bits, and each of you could've gotten a pair of ascii characters plus two bits in change.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Actually, my B&W G3 400 (overclocked to 450Mhz) handles windows and graphics just fine. It has the stock 16MB ATi card, which doesn't support QE, and no AltiVec instruction set. I'm actually impressed with how well this 6 year old computer runs OS X.
It seems the author of Cherry is really claiming 25% of speed or so. If it was really 80% your 3.2Ghz would yield 2.56Ghz not 800Mhz as he says below. Funny math. "CherryOS has been tuned for performance. You can expect to get about 80% of your processors power when working in the Apple Environment. For example a 3.2ghz P4 would run as fast as a 800 MHz G4 machine." http://www.cherryos.com/what.html
"Apple does not make the PPC chip and if none of Apple's code is used, they will not be able to sic their lawyers on Cherry."
You're right, IBM makes PPC chips, not Apple.
If you're going to enrage a gorilla, make sure you pick the biggest, meanest one. At least that way its quick and painless.
according to this blog by the author of the Wired article:? entry_id=479527
http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/cultofmac/index.blog
"Who the hell modded this bollocks insightful, window transparency, shadows, and various other pretty effects all existed prior to quartz extreme.
Everything still works without quartz extreme, as many of the machines still officially supported by OS X are not QE capable.
Please someone with a brain mod this down to -1 Troll where it should be."
Are you blind? Maybe you didn't read my post? I said that it uses QE to SPEED IT UP, and if QE wasn't there, it would DECREASE PERFORMANCE.
This is 100% TRUE. Sorry if I'm being harsh, but I dislike being called a Troll when I make a correct statement.
Yes, EVERYTHING STILL WORKS. I have a G3 with no graphics card. But, it works SLOWER. That was the point of my post- if CherryOS does not use the graphics card, all the graphical effects will SLOW IT DOWN even further. And it is not full hardware support as they claim.
Are you blind? Maybe you didn't read my post? I said that it uses QE to SPEED IT UP, and if QE wasn't there, it would DECREASE PERFORMANCE.
Actually, that's not what you said. You said:
"Mac OS X uses Quartz Extreme to render all the windows in 3d with shadows and fancy coloring. No graphics card = horrid windowing performance."
Implying that without Quartz Extreme windowing performance would be unbearable, that shadows wouldn't work, and that the colours would somehow be affected. All bullshit.
This is an emulator we're talking about, even if it doesn't support Quartz Extreme it can still achieve high performance.
Mac on Linux doesn't support Quartz Extreme yet performs admirably. Though PearPC's graphics speed is not very impressive, it's hardly the limiting factor there either.
I'd contend that the lack of/support for QE has approximately nothing whatsoever to do with performance in an emulator (as anyone whose used a PPC emulator/VM can attest), and that your previous post appeared to say that without QE support the emulator would not be able to render shadows or draw colours correctly. This, as you are obviously aware, is blatantly false.
Which is why I called you a troll.
Had you made the assertions you made in this post, I would have supported some of what you say, but I think without some kind of native graphics card translator, QE would be worthless anyway, and in fact would almost certainly be slower.
As you may already be aware, native graphics card support is not just a matter of 1:1 mapping between the PC and Mac graphics card, because of fundamental architectural differences between x86 and PPC. There would need to be some interception and modification of QE's graphics instructions into the correct form for the PC graphics chipset, which could easily negate any speed benefit.
In short, you're correct about it being slower, but the Chicken Little-esque, sky-is-falling way you went about stating it in your previous post made it sound like the emulator would be useless simply because it didn't support QE, which is far from truthful.
If you look at http://cherryos.com/images/screenshots/7.jpg , you will see that the upper left bit of the Mac OS X desktop is visible, while the scrollbars indicate otherwise: The rightmost scrollbar is scrolled up, but the bottom scrollbar is scrolled to the left. Nor have I seen any third parties come up with any convincing screenshots as yet.
Found this link: http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/ Wonder if he'll get a working copy of Panther soon...
and so if i've just taken 2 years off work to write a book, and am hoping to sell x copies in order to make back my money and maybe even a little profit - and then i find NO-ONE'S BUYING IT BECAUSE EVERYONE'S JUST COPYING IT AND NOW CAN'T PAY THE RENT then that's ok, is it?
Genesis is a brand of PPC board, not a game console (in this case).
I actually tried that on 2k and ended up crashing the computer every time I plugged it in... any ideas?
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
You could, in theory, have a cross-compiling assembler that turns PPC code into x86 code ahead of time, but this isn't really practical for emulating an entire OS.
:P
Uh, I just think you merely repeated what I said. That in theory it could be done, but the reality is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Anyone who thinks that can get a complex system up to 80% of another complex systems is smoking something a tad harder than pot!
We've heard and seen these "ads" in the past and the reality has never lived up to what the PR folks can write. Oh, trust me, it is a lovely, lovely, dream... but it is just that, a dream.
If ya' are lusting after a Mac, just BUY the damn thing. You can get one for around 800 USD.
Sending money to these "make your PC into a Mac" outfits is a waste of time and money. You'll be pissed off and wonder where all your time went. Or worse yet, think that Mac's must suck because of a crappy piece of translation software.
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
Hmmm... I would of thought that after 1067 comments someone would have actually downloaded the software to see if it exists or works.
Ah well, tis the way of slashdot - never let real research get in the way of opinion!
Three Squirrels
I just used Cherry OS to install Mac OSX on my new OQO. A pocket Mac, finally!!!
Hmm. Now the site just resolves to a cPanel screen giving a 404 Not Found error. Looks like we blew them off their host. :(
I just checked www.cherryos.com for an update this morning and the damn thing has gone up in smoke! I guess it was a hoax...
Who said I use anything but Windows? Doesn't mean I can't criticise the poor design of it. You shouldn't have to reboot for anything but a major update. Psychological issues because I don't like wasting time rebooting, damn I think you're the one with the problem.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
Comment removed based on user account deletion